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-   -   New Critical System (https://archive.eq2wire.com//showthread.php?t=801749)

Xelgad 10-06-2014 10:59 PM

Welcome to beta, testers!<br /> <br />As discussed at SOE Live 2014, creatures in Altar of Malice will not be using Crit Avoidance. Instead, Crit Chance will add additional critical types.<br /> <br />You will be able to see your "Regular" Critical hits that you currently can get remain unchanged, however you will be able to attain "Legendary," "Fabled" and "Mythical" critical hits.<br /> <br />What does this mean?<br /> <br />Well, you'll be a little more powerful when you log on, for one.<br /> <br />A Legendary Critical hit takes the damage you would have had with a normal one and increases it by 25%.<br />A Fabled Critical hit takes the damage you would have had with a normal one and increases it by 100%.<br />A Mythical Critical hit takes the damage you would have done with a normal one and increases it by 300%.<br /> <br />At 100% Crit, you will have a 1% chance to get a Legendary critical hit. At 500% Crit, you will have a 1% chance to get a Fabled critical hit. At 700% Crit, you'll have a very small chance to get a Mythical critical hit.<br /> <br />As with regular critical hits, as you gain Crit Chance, your chance for the new types will improve dramatically.<br /> <br />Please keep in mind that we intend for these new Critical Hits to be a rare, low chance to happen. They will work on anything that can critically apply - taunts, damage, heals and wards.<br /> <br />Thanks,<br />Xelgad

Dethdlr 10-07-2014 06:08 PM

Do mobs get a chance at these new criticals as well or just characters?

Corydonn 10-07-2014 06:13 PM

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Dethdlr"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Dethdlr said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6110149#post-6110149" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Do mobs get a chance at these new criticals as well or just characters?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Seeing a mob get a Mythical crit on an AE at 4% would be hilarious.

silamdarr 10-07-2014 06:14 PM

No, mobs cannot crit at all. Rather than reimplementing critical mitigation they went the route of using resists vs hp/heals as a means for progression

Kalderon 10-07-2014 06:18 PM

What i good in mind, when u got 700%, how high will be a chance to legendary hit a mob? (7%?)<br />I mean, serious, thats a dmg drain....

Dethdlr 10-07-2014 06:18 PM

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="silamdarr"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">silamdarr said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6110157#post-6110157" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">No, mobs cannot crit at all. Rather than reimplementing critical mitigation they went the route of using resists vs hp/heals as a means for progression</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>That's certainly the answer I'm expecting to hear. <img src="/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" />

Arieste 10-07-2014 06:21 PM

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Xelgad"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Xelgad said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6109674#post-6109674" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">A Legendary Critical hit takes the damage you would have had with a normal one and increases it by 25%.<br />A Fabled Critical hit takes the damage you would have had with a normal one and increases it by 100%.<br />A Mythical Critical hit takes the damage you would have done with a normal one and increases it by 300%.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>What is the intended effect of these new criticals on things other than damage? Specifically - heals, wards, power replenishment. Is it the same? 25/100/300?

Xelgad 10-07-2014 06:55 PM

The values are the same for heals, damage, wards, power restoration and taunts.<br /> <br />Enemies cannot critically hit players.

Bouncing Skull 10-07-2014 09:33 PM

Not sure how its a damage drain. If you have 100% or more crit chance, you will still have a 100% chance to do a normal critical hit correct? I was on beta today and I saw crits flying all over the place with my current TOV raid crit chance.

Nubek 10-07-2014 10:08 PM

For the number crunchers among us, would it be possible to share the formulas in terms of how big the chances are? Like at 500%, how big is our chance at a Legendary crit and at what point do we max that out (even if such levels of crit chance are not attainable in game yet)?

Ucala 10-08-2014 09:17 AM

I personally don't like the new system, but oh well.<br />cause them being rare, it's like, the person that will top the parse is the the person that will have the most fabled crits or something, eh

Ajjantis 10-08-2014 09:32 AM

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ucala"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ucala said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6110763#post-6110763" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I personally don't like the new system, but oh well.<br />cause them being rare, it's like, the person that will top the parse is the the person that will have the most fabled crits or something, eh</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Is it any different now? Its just one more stat, and stats matter the most in the end.

LordTiras 10-08-2014 09:53 AM

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ucala"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ucala said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6110763#post-6110763" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I personally don't like the new system, but oh well.<br />cause them being rare, it's like, the person that will top the parse is the the person that will have the most fabled crits or something, eh</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>If you feel that's going to be an issue where "the lucky one scores #1", push the parser folks (like the maintainer of ACT) to exclude the "super crits", or at least parse them out as separate line items so that people can look and say "Oh, well, without that Fabled Crit, they were #4". It's certainly possible, though a bit more work and maintenance on the part of the parser writers.

Kalderon 10-08-2014 10:14 AM

Ok, i did missread or did not read it that closely <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" /><br />Well, then let it come, would be fun.... do the items did a change on the stats right now? Cause in raid i already got like 800 (and i cant get it much lower ^^)

Caminus 10-08-2014 10:37 AM

I don't get the complaints. Regular crits were something that started out rare, and has since become something you're 100% guaranteed on everything you do. Now, they left that system alone so it's not a drastic change, and added an old-fashioned crit system on top of what we already had. It's bonus damage any way you look at it. It'll be rare, and it'll be awesome if you manage to get a mythical crit with your highest hitting nuke.<br /> <br />I am curious about the actual odds though. At something like 738 CC, I don't think I saw anything but regular crits. So if 700 is the threshold for mythicals (at a "small chance"), how much of an increased chance do you have for legendary and fabled crits?

Buffrat 10-08-2014 11:46 AM

Is this system even active on beta? I smacked around a training dummy for a few minutes (with 750 cc) and didn't see any special crits in the overhead numbers or in my chat window. Or is this like...a level 100 only thing. Also if it doesn't already exist, can the mouseover tooltip for crit chance display the chance you have for a legendary, fabled, or mythicrit at your current crit value?

Arieste 10-08-2014 01:32 PM

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Caminus"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Caminus said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6110778#post-6110778" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">It'll be rare, and it'll be awesome if you manage to get a mythical crit with your highest hitting nuke.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>There is no skill involved in getting a super-rare crit. When we're talking about 1% or lower odds, it's just dumb luck. And dumb luck is dumb. <br /><br />We are already being subjected to "get lucky to get some of the best gear" through the Ethereal Items, now basically letting RNG determine who your top dps is kinda lame. I mean, they also tried to do all the loot via RNG in the DUO zone and in AEx2, both of which failed miserably and resulted in the DEVs admitting that it was a bad idea and not be used again. But hey, back we go to RNG... now not for loot, but for DPS.<br /> <br />I mean, SOME element of luck is good and keeps the game interesting. But it needs to be stuff that people can adjust and react to. An example of RNG used well is random resets of certain longer recast spells - everyone gets resets, but it takes skill to notice them and take full advantage. This simply isn't the case with something randomly critting. Yay, there is my 300% ward... which happens during a precast when no one is taking damage... and during the fight, i get a my tiny nuke to crit 300% and continue being useless, etc.<br /> <br />It would be a cool addition if you could somehow store the crit and use it for a good spell. Or if you got a "mythical crit" buff that lasted 5 seconds like your own personal timewarp and that any spells cast during those 5 secs would myth crit.<br /> <br />Original crits weren't rare. You never tiny percentages below 1% and a character that could crit 20% of the time versus one that crit 15% of the time would see a sizeable difference in any length encounter. When you're talking about 1 crit in less than 100 spellcasts vs 1 in 150, both are too low to be sizeably different. But i guess someone can parse and prove it with some math.

Bouncing Skull 10-08-2014 03:27 PM

I like the system. I always hated the fact that you needed to crit 100% of the time. It made no sense. I am an old school D&D player and so maybe thats it. No one should put ut full max DPS at all times... and don't tell me its skill. Its not skill, its math.

Caminus 10-08-2014 03:47 PM

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Arieste"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Arieste said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6110805#post-6110805" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">There is no skill involved in getting a super-rare crit.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>There's no skill involved in having 100% crits either. Or in having a proc go off. There's a lot of things that involve a certain degree of chance that we all rely on in this game... that's kinda part and parcel to RPGs. Back when the game first launched, crits were indeed rare; you couldn't rely on them happening in a fight to get by. Same deal with the new crits. It's not something we'll be forced to rely on, it's just an added little bonus. I think it's a good idea, and it doesn't really have any downsides... it's all just icing.

Maergoth 10-08-2014 05:28 PM

There is no skill in having 100% chance to crit<br />There is no skill in having a 1% chance to mega crit.<br /> <br />It has nothing to do with skill. It has to do with the fact that one can be controlled, and one cannot. It has to do with RNGsus deciding your fate, opposed to having control over it to be able to gear through the inconsistencies.<br /> <br />I was always a fan of the reset mechanic RNG. I mean, RNG being good or bad isn't the point. The point is, if you have to use RNG, reset is better than giant random crits. I even asked for reuse speed to overcap into a "reset chance". I was told that it would enable ultra lucky players to chain cast some things, and it wouldn't be balanced, no matter the conversion rate.<br /> <br />I can't see how that is the case, even after seeing this and talking about it. The only difference between resetting Ice Comet 4 times in a row, and getting a crit that deals 4 times damage, is that one actually requires you to do something.<br /> <br />Okay, math says there are other differences, but the point remains. And the point also remains that reuse speed fluctuates substantially, is one of the most important stats in the game, and still has no overcap conversion to anything.<br /> <br />In fact, if a healer casts Soulward and megacrits, the target is granted a cool giant ward. If a healer were to cast soulward and trigger a reset on it, they could actually save the ability, use it on someone else, OR replace the old one when it wears off.<br /> <br />That is versatility. That is the kind of thing RNG should enable.. an occasional extra layer of decision making. <br /> <br />Not just adding zeroes to things.

Busko 10-08-2014 07:53 PM

thats one way to kill the parse system how the hell are we to test top dps's if its just RNG ? so some noob can just out parse me if the game feels like it as he could just get myth crits alot in that fight ? .what the hell are the dev's thinking do they know that 80% of the dps's in this game only play and get gear to see and test there dps v other players the game..us dps players all we care about is the numbers..and yes skill will be out the window you have to be good to dps not let RNG get in the way

Ucala 10-08-2014 10:33 PM

seems the new system is in, I was getting some legendary crits and stuff off my autos

Arieste 10-08-2014 10:43 PM

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Caminus"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Caminus said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6110843#post-6110843" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">There's no skill involved in having 100% crits either.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Multiple people quote me on this, but i'll just quote one to respond.<br /> <br />Correct, there is no skill to having 100% crit (aside from gearing yourself out, but let's leave that aside). However, when everyone's crits are at 100%, everyone is even and that leaves skill to be the difference (or buffs - which are player controllable, or gear, which is also player controllable). <br /> <br />If you have a 1-in-100 chance to get a megacrit, everyone is NOT even - because at such low rates, everyone WILL NOT get the super crit and everyone WILL NOT get it on their top spell, just at the right time. Someone will get lucky and parse well, others will not. <br /> <br />It's dumb. <br /> <br />And when crit was 15%, everyone strived to get to 15%. 15% is quite a big number in terms of the number of hits you do on an encounter. If mythical crits are going to start out with us being able to get them to 15% this expac, i'm actually ok with the mechanic - because that will mean that players will need to use SKILL to pick out correct gear for parsing - either gear that gives them 15% myth-crit or gear that gives them higher normal (crit) hits through the existing dps-increasing mechanics. What I read though from the developers is that it's less than 1% chance. That is not controllable. That is dumb luck.

Laita 10-08-2014 11:03 PM

Love the new crit system... for those of you crying that there is not skill in it, sad news for you, there's no skill in any of this game anymore (if there ever really was)! The old crit system was generic and boring, get x number of critical chance and don't worry about it again, the new system adds a little flavor to it, and makes it exciting to see those big numbers pop up, kind of like how it was back in KoS when we were all excited to have a 10-15% crit rate.

Elinea 10-08-2014 11:11 PM

Nevermind, nothing to see here.

Ucala 10-08-2014 11:16 PM

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Laita"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Laita said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6111114#post-6111114" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Love the new crit system... for those of you crying that there is not skill in it, sad news for you, there's no skill in any of this game anymore (if there ever really was)! The old crit system was generic and boring, get x number of critical chance and don't worry about it again, the new system adds a little flavor to it, and makes it exciting to see those big numbers pop up, kind of like how it was back in KoS when we were all excited to have a 10-15% crit rate.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>with a game that requires no skill, there are still alot of people that (I don't eve know how) they are so bad at it.

Laita 10-08-2014 11:20 PM

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">with a game that requires no skill, there are still alot of people that (I don't eve know how) they are so bad at it.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Wont argue that one!

Tarb 10-08-2014 11:20 PM

I have not been in Beta yet, do the new crits show up as different colors or just larger numbers?

Ucala 10-08-2014 11:35 PM

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Tarb"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Tarb said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6111133#post-6111133" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I have not been in Beta yet, do the new crits show up as different colors or just larger numbers?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>different colors and much larger than normal numbers

Mogrim 10-08-2014 11:53 PM

Could we have something under the overhead feedback that only shows numbers if the crit is larger than normal?<br /> <br />Essentially, 5 options.<br /> <br />1) Display no feedback (currently an option)<br />2) Normal, display feedback (currently an option)<br />3) Display only Legendary+<br />4) Display only Fabled+<br />5) Display only Mythical<br /> <br />I think this would be enjoyable. I don't like seeing much feedback, but it might be nice to turn on some minimal combat feedback. <img src="/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" /><br /> <br />I think one of the reasons for this is to allow itemization to allow another option altogether: "Critical Chance" specs that aim at making these high-end crits more possible.<br /> <br />Also... how would an ability like Catalyst play with the new crit system? The whole "guaranteed crit of next spell" seems like it should be replaced with a "adds x crit chance to next spell" which would actually make it viable as a "loading your dice" playstyle.


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