EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire - Potential LDL to CB merger can we keep our RP tag?

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- - Potential LDL to CB merger can we keep our RP tag? (https://archive.eq2wire.com//showthread.php?t=493490)

Sacra Magice

01-09-2011 01:53 PM

5000 level 90s in crushbone. 3000 level 90s in LDL. That's why LDL cries for a merge.So, that means no RP tag since Crushbone is the bigger server (also true according to your numbers).And if CB was switched to RP preffered, CBers are gonna have a free transfer?Oh, and don't answer RP preffered doesn't force us to RP, cause you can also RP in any server without that tag =)

Gimmiethat

01-09-2011 02:05 PM

<cite>Sacra Magice wrote:</cite><blockquote>5000 level 90s in crushbone. 3000 level 90s in LDL. That's why LDL cries for a merge.So if CB is RP preffered, CBers are gonna have a free transfer?Oh, and don't answer RP preffered doesn't force us to RP, cause you can also RP in any server without that tag =)</blockquote>Your numbers are from EQ Flames?!?And like YOU said... its prefered but not required. It means nothing changes for the current CB population. Just keep on doing what you are doing. So why the fear of the RP-Prefered tag?

Sacra Magice

01-09-2011 02:12 PM

<cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sacra Magice wrote:</cite><blockquote>5000 level 90s in crushbone. 3000 level 90s in LDL. That's why LDL cries for a merge.So if CB is RP preffered, CBers are gonna have a free transfer?Oh, and don't answer RP preffered doesn't force us to RP, cause you can also RP in any server without that tag =)</blockquote>Your numbers are from EQ Flames?!?And like YOU said... its prefered but not required. It means nothing changes for the current CB population. Just keep on doing what you are doing. So why the fear of the RP-Prefered tag?</blockquote>Eq2flames with an eq2players source anyway.I will explain again for you why no RP tag:- People who want a RP server goes to AB (check LDL's population and compare it to AB's population). Quite obvious, right?- People who do not want a RP server won't go into a RP tagged server. Makes sense too?So, who would come to Crushbone? Noone.So, no RP tag, please.You are welcome to keep RPing on whatever server you are, though.

Avirodar

01-09-2011 02:23 PM

<cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lucan de'Lere got the hardware upgrade and is quite playable even with the low population. Crushbone is a lagfast and has been whining about the hardware all over.Didn't I cover this -- Crushbone old hardware and low population, LdL new hardware and low population... let's merge them!Oh, and check the SOE server website for population numbers... LdL 202k, CB 252K. That looks like almost have the merged server will have selected RP-prefered... those are <a href="http://everquest2.com/serverstatus/" target="_blank">SOE's numbers</a> by the way.</blockquote>Unless I missed something somewhere...Only the AB and Nagafen servers got hardware upgrades. LDL got squat. If you have information that is not the case, please post a link to a relevant post by an SOE Dev.Otherwise, the only reason Crushbone has more lag than LDL, is Crushbone actually has more people playing on it. My understanding is they are both (LDL and CB) running on the same hardware they were a year ago.Edit to add, your 202k (LDL) vs 252k (CB) is total characters existing on the server. This includes all storage toons, and inactive (unsubscribed) accounts. These totals will do nothing but go up, as time goes on. To get a more accurate indication of current use, EQ2players can be used to determine how many level 90 characters exist on a server, of which CB dominates LDL.

Kamimura

01-09-2011 02:36 PM

So, basically what I see it coming down to...People on CB chose a server without the RP tag for a reason. Sure, CB could ignore an added tag, but they chose a non-RP server, they have been paying to play on a non-RP server. People on LDL chose a server with the RP tag for a reason. Sure, LDL could RP without the tag, but they chose an RP server, and have been paying to play on an RP server. Both groups are worried about the people who would come to the server, RP tag or no RP tag. Let's face it, people DO pick a server based on the tag - or lack of tag, otherwise there would be no need for them. Either way, a group is going to end up angry and having to deal with something they didn't pick when they made their character. IMO? The more I see here, the more I realize this is a pretty bad move. An RP server should not be merging with a non-RP server.

Gimmiethat

01-09-2011 02:57 PM

<cite>Sacra Magice wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sacra Magice wrote:</cite><blockquote>5000 level 90s in crushbone. 3000 level 90s in LDL. That's why LDL cries for a merge.So if CB is RP preffered, CBers are gonna have a free transfer?Oh, and don't answer RP preffered doesn't force us to RP, cause you can also RP in any server without that tag =)</blockquote>Your numbers are from EQ Flames?!?And like YOU said... its prefered but not required. It means nothing changes for the current CB population. Just keep on doing what you are doing. So why the fear of the RP-Prefered tag?</blockquote>Eq2flames with an eq2players source anyway.I will explain again for you why no RP tag:- People who want a RP server goes to AB (check LDL's population and compare it to AB's population). Quite obvious, right?- People who do not want a RP server won't go into a RP tagged server. Makes sense too?So, who would come to Crushbone? Noone.So, no RP tag, please.You are welcome to keep RPing on whatever server you are, though.</blockquote>Well, numbers talk, AB is the highest population server and has a RP-Prefered tag. So, your fear losing population BECAUSE of the tag just doesn't make sense.Also, post merge Crush d'Lere will be top 2 in server population... you are afraid that if the tag stays then at some point we wont be top 2?You're welcome to stay if the RP tag stays, just keep doing what you're doing.

Sacra Magice

01-09-2011 03:19 PM

<cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sacra Magice wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sacra Magice wrote:</cite><blockquote>5000 level 90s in crushbone. 3000 level 90s in LDL. That's why LDL cries for a merge.So if CB is RP preffered, CBers are gonna have a free transfer?Oh, and don't answer RP preffered doesn't force us to RP, cause you can also RP in any server without that tag =)</blockquote>Your numbers are from EQ Flames?!?And like YOU said... its prefered but not required. It means nothing changes for the current CB population. Just keep on doing what you are doing. So why the fear of the RP-Prefered tag?</blockquote>Eq2flames with an eq2players source anyway.I will explain again for you why no RP tag:- People who want a RP server goes to AB (check LDL's population and compare it to AB's population). Quite obvious, right?- People who do not want a RP server won't go into a RP tagged server. Makes sense too?So, who would come to Crushbone? Noone.So, no RP tag, please.You are welcome to keep RPing on whatever server you are, though.</blockquote>Well, numbers talk, AB is the highest population server and has a RP-Prefered tag. So, your fear losing population BECAUSE of the tag just doesn't make sense.Also, post merge Crush d'Lere will be top 2 in server population... you are afraid that if the tag stays then at some point we wont be top 2?You're welcome to stay if the RP tag stays, just keep doing what you're doing.</blockquote>AB is not the highest population server anymore (after the merges).There were two server with the RP tag. One got people, the other didn't.I am not thinking about the day of the merge when asking or not for a tag, but on the long run. Check my quote in this same thread again to understand it.You are welcome to stay if the RP tag doesn't stay, just keep doing what you are doing.

Avirodar

01-09-2011 03:33 PM

<cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, numbers talk, AB is the highest population server and has a RP-Prefered tag. So, your fear losing population BECAUSE of the tag just doesn't make sense.Also, post merge Crush d'Lere will be top 2 in server population... you are afraid that if the tag stays then at some point we wont be top 2?You're welcome to stay if the RP tag stays, just keep doing what you're doing.</blockquote>Something you may find interesting...Pre merge : Befallen : 158,542Pre merge : Oasis : 79,791As someone who played both servers, within the last year, I was very suprised to find that Oasis was a significantly more active server, with a vastly superior raiding community (number of successful guilds), and more public/active grouping for heroic content. I was not expecting it to be that way, but it was.There was often complaints about lack of people/groups on Befallen. Since moving to Oasis, people sometimes comment on the low total according to EQ2 players, but express little difficulty being able to find groups or get things done. Of course, any server will have occasions where finding a group is a bit of a pain, but that is how it is.Key input to consider is, there was barely a peep from Crushbone seeking a merger. LDL were squealing for something the moment they found out they were not being merged. That says a lot in itself.

WeatherMan

01-09-2011 03:37 PM

Longfangz

01-09-2011 03:44 PM

Let's put it in dollars and cents because that's what SOE is going to consider the most...CB has a much greater population of active players than LDL, current CB residents do not RP. Forcing the higher population into a RP tag, therefor potentially affecting new players to either come to CB to RP or for them to pick a different server because they don't want to RP will cause a potential greater amount of people to cancel their subs on CB, or in my case simply the annoyance of having to chose very carefully who to group/not to group with so I don't have to deal with 'HARK" and 'THOU" when simple english is the preferred language and useable be RP'rs and non-RP'rs alike, as well as 'OMG I SHALL NOT GROUP WITH THOU OF EVIL FACTION!" crap, plain and simple. Btw this is more of a joke than anything, but what it comes right down to is, if the small amount of actual RP'rs on the current LDL actually chose to cancel their subs, they will still have a larger amount of non-RP'rs on on LDL choose to come to CB, RP tag or not, vice the amount of actual active players on CB chosing to cancel their subs due to people who are mostly interested in RP coming to the server while those who chose not to come to CB will chose a non-RP server.As already stated, due to all the mergers, AB and CB are not the highest populated non-PVP servers any more. CB doesn't really need LDL quite frankly even at this stage, but most of use would highly prefer not to be labeled as a RP server for future gain purposes. Lag is really not an issue currently on CB tbh even with older hardware, whereas it may become an issue with the merger of the LDL toons. In the end, CB gains nothing but LDL gains everything and yet you still want to cry about a RP tag even when your own residents have stated your RP crowd is smaller than your own non-RP population? Give me a break already.

Gimmiethat

01-09-2011 04:02 PM

<cite>Sacra Magice wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sacra Magice wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sacra Magice wrote:</cite><blockquote>5000 level 90s in crushbone. 3000 level 90s in LDL. That's why LDL cries for a merge.So if CB is RP preffered, CBers are gonna have a free transfer?Oh, and don't answer RP preffered doesn't force us to RP, cause you can also RP in any server without that tag =)</blockquote>Your numbers are from EQ Flames?!?And like YOU said... its prefered but not required. It means nothing changes for the current CB population. Just keep on doing what you are doing. So why the fear of the RP-Prefered tag?</blockquote>Eq2flames with an eq2players source anyway.I will explain again for you why no RP tag:- People who want a RP server goes to AB (check LDL's population and compare it to AB's population). Quite obvious, right?- People who do not want a RP server won't go into a RP tagged server. Makes sense too?So, who would come to Crushbone? Noone.So, no RP tag, please.You are welcome to keep RPing on whatever server you are, though.</blockquote>Well, numbers talk, AB is the highest population server and has a RP-Prefered tag. So, your fear losing population BECAUSE of the tag just doesn't make sense.Also, post merge Crush d'Lere will be top 2 in server population... you are afraid that if the tag stays then at some point we wont be top 2?You're welcome to stay if the RP tag stays, just keep doing what you're doing.</blockquote>AB is not the highest population server anymore (after the merges).There were two server with the RP tag. One got people, the other didn't.I am not thinking about the day of the merge when asking or not for a tag, but on the long run. Check my quote in this same thread again to understand it.You are welcome to stay if the RP tag doesn't stay, just keep doing what you are doing.</blockquote>If we can't agree on what numbers to use... then we'll just never agree.According to SOE AB is currently the highest population server. After the merge Crush d'Lere would be #1.And Crush d'Lere would quickly recieve the hardware update that the Crushbone customers have been whining for -- if the LdL hasn't been upgraded yet.As far as long term fears that Crush d'Lere won't be one of the top population servers -- who knows what the game will look like 2-3 years from now. No one expected free-to-play, Station Cash, or any other thing. It's just an RP-Prefered tag!

Gimmiethat

01-09-2011 04:53 PM

Troubor

01-09-2011 04:59 PM

<cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>WeatherMan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well...no. The bolded text is, in a word, incorrect. My turn to explain.Take a survey of any ten players on Antonia Bayle, and at least six or seven of them will tell you that they went there, not because of the awesome roleplaying opportunities, but because the denizens of an RP server tend to be a bit older, a bit more mature, and more respectful of their peers. These are the reasons those six or seven will generally give. On Lucan D'Lere, it is much the same. But our population, while flagging, is still too large to merge into Antonia Bayle.</blockquote>A study conducted by a company, that was supported by vast volumes of data from SOE, found that hardcore RPers are the most mentally unstable players of MMO's.So while you have every right to voice your opinion, professional studies indicate otherwise.Take care.Edit to add : I do not associate mental instability, with maturity, to clarify if there was any confusion.</blockquote>And my opinion is that most of the RPers I've met on LDL server are far from mentally unstable. I can think of three that I have met personally with IMO have personality disorders (well one actually admitted it). Two left the game, one left the server after to the best of my knowledge alienating everyone they met in the RP community. Ignoring then, my PERSONAL experience has been that RPers have been both mature and at least as mentally stable as anyone else playing this game. Now I've met mature and considerate casual players and raiders too. I've been both, until a bit over a year ago I both raided and RPed, now I just mostly RP and casually play. But the most immature people I've met short of young children intentionally being obnoxious in game have been what I'd call hardcore raiders, people with what I define as a "more uber then thou" mindset.So, opinion or not, I will go by my personal experience first, even before a single survey. And based on that, yes generally speaking the RPers I've met tend to be more mature then the hardcore raiders. But again, I've met some immature people and for that matter complete arseholes from both playstyles as well.Anyway, the idea of this thread is to request that we keep the RP tag when the servers merge. What does the perceived maturity of players of any playstyle in a MMO really have to do with things?

Troubor

01-09-2011 05:17 PM

<cite>Longfangz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let's put it in dollars and cents because that's what SOE is going to consider the most...CB has a much greater population of active players than LDL, current CB residents do not RP. Forcing the higher population into a RP tag, therefor potentially affecting new players to either come to CB to RP or for them to pick a different server because they don't want to RP will cause a potential greater amount of people to cancel their subs on CB, or in my case simply the annoyance of having to chose very carefully who to group/not to group with so I don't have to deal with 'HARK" and 'THOU" when simple english is the preferred language and useable be RP'rs and non-RP'rs alike, as well as 'OMG I SHALL NOT GROUP WITH THOU OF EVIL FACTION!" crap, plain and simple. Btw this is more of a joke than anything, but what it comes right down to is, if the small amount of actual RP'rs on the current LDL actually chose to cancel their subs, they will still have a larger amount of non-RP'rs on on LDL choose to come to CB, RP tag or not, vice the amount of actual active players on CB chosing to cancel their subs due to people who are mostly interested in RP coming to the server while those who chose not to come to CB will chose a non-RP server.As already stated, due to all the mergers, AB and CB are not the highest populated non-PVP servers any more. CB doesn't really need LDL quite frankly even at this stage, but most of use would highly prefer not to be labeled as a RP server for future gain purposes. Lag is really not an issue currently on CB tbh even with older hardware, whereas it may become an issue with the merger of the LDL toons. In the end, CB gains nothing but LDL gains everything and yet you still want to cry about a RP tag even when your own residents have stated your RP crowd is smaller than your own non-RP population? Give me a break already.</blockquote>Someone else addressed these points, but consider this:1) The RP tag indicated roleplay PREFERRED. Not roleplay enforced. If someone walks up to me on my server (LDL) right now and asks me if I enjoyed the Colts vrs Jets football game on Saturday, I'd answer. Since I do RP, I'd probably put a small tag to indicate out of character talk (My usual is to do this ((example of OOC talk)) for the record). but I'd not insult them if they didn't use such a tag and just talked about some topic that has nothing to do with the game. All the tag indicates is that the server has a larger then normal RP community (which it WILL have when the merger takes place) and that said community wouldn't mind if more joined whom wish to try that playstyle.2) Short of one guy who used "HARK" and "THOU" to tease people roleplaying (and that guy transfered to I think Guk server a few weeks ago), no one I've EVER met talks like that in character. Some might add some accent (Like how Ratonga tend to "talks like everything is plurals, yas") which I do with my one ratonga alt. But short of that, most just use normal plain English. The topics might be in character. All roleplaying is anyway is ad-libbed acting of a persona assumed while one is in game. But yes, the whole "HARK" bit is nothing but some assumption, I don't know where it started assumed by a few. And again, the one guy who used HARK wasn't even a roleplayer on our server, just someone doing that to tease and annoy people.3) Likewise, most people even in character will group with the other faction. Some might not, but so what? How does it hurt you if someone decides for whatever reason to not group with the opposed faction? Many who RP will also drop being in character to group with people as well. Myself, I go with the general consensis of the group. If most or all are RPers, I'm in character. If most aren't or if I know a group or raid member is like you and find RPing annoying, I will take that person's feelings into consideration and drop my RP. And hey, if I need a quest done, I'm just as pragmatic as anyone. I play a paladin but if I form a PUG for a quest or the daily double or whatever and the people whom answer are a defilier, an inquisitor, a coercer and a couple other "evil" toons, then guess what. I'm probably not RPing that day and will form the group and have fun. Yes, some are more hardcore but even then they will group with the opposite faction, just maybe use their OOC conversation tag. 4) Other then maybe your obvious misconceptions which I feel I've answered about above, I have yet to see any convincing arguement from anyone from Crushbone with regards to the RP tag other then "We don't want it". Again, as I've pointed out if someone moves to CB because a raid guild recruited them from another server, they won't care about the tag. I know, I've seen such happen on LDL server. The RP community IMO hasn't gone down, it's just because we've had whole raid guilds in the past transfer to our server for reasons other then RP. I won't get into reasons why or why I think they did so, but until a few months ago we had no real population issues. People came to our server fine from other non RP ones and didn't seem to be alienated, they seemed to integrate well with us. So I am still confused over why this tag is seen as such horrid poison by the CB community, or at least members of said community, when it's obvious that both a notable RP community and a notable community with no interest in such can exist fine on a server. Want proof? Look at ours. And look at Antonia Bayle server.So, with all due respect I will ask YOU to give US a break. The RP tag won't kill CB. You're gaining more population AND a Rp community that even if you choose to ignore it may mean MORE potential people coming, not less. Even if not, it won't hurt CB at all. So again, give me a break. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Troubor

01-09-2011 05:25 PM

<cite>Sacra Magice wrote:</cite><blockquote>5000 level 90s in crushbone. 3000 level 90s in LDL. That's why LDL cries for a merge.So, that means no RP tag since Crushbone is the bigger server (also true according to your numbers).And if CB was switched to RP preffered, CBers are gonna have a free transfer?Oh, and don't answer RP preffered doesn't force us to RP, cause you can also RP in any server without that tag =)</blockquote>Actually I will add that RP preferred doesn't force anyone to RP anyway, since you miss the point as to WHY those of us on LDL want the tag. We want the tag so that new players or people making alts to RP or transfering servers to RP won't skip over the new merged server and instead just go to AB by default.Sure, I can RP on any server sans tag. But whom will I RP with if the RP community slowly dies off due to lack of the tag?As an aside, to the best of my knowledge most that asked for the merger are non-RPers. That's far from a formal survey, but my general feeling with the people whom I RP with, and those whom don't RP but that do like the tag for other reasons they aren't too keen on a merger. Me, I am trying to take a wait and see attitude but so far I'm not too keen on it either. I just keep getting the feeling that anyone from LDL in general, let alone anyone who dares to even RP in the slightest will be seen as an instant social leper on CB to be quite blunt. I'm hoping this won't be the case but it is my gut feeling. But anyway, I STILL have yet to see any logical or compelling arguement from a CB member opposed to a RP tag that goes past "I don't like the idea of a RP" tag.

Chakos

01-09-2011 06:19 PM

<cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote>But anyway, I STILL have yet to see any logical or compelling arguement from a CB member opposed to a RP tag that goes past "I don't like the idea of a RP" tag.</blockquote>The exact same thing can be said for those of you wanting the tag, you only have to flip your arguments for keeping the tag.Bottom line is, if you are being merged INTO CB then you become a part of CB -- CB does not suddenly become RP preferred (which would be a lie anyhow, as the clear majority of the server will not PREFER RP).

Dreyco

01-09-2011 06:20 PM

I'll keep it simple then:My feedback?Option One: Give Crushbone the RP tag after the merge to satisfy the RP community that is there.Option Two: Keep the tag off, but offer free transfers to a server that has a growing RP community.Either one or the other should happen.

Chakos

01-09-2011 06:33 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>Option Two: Keep the tag off, but offer free transfers to a server that has a growing RP community.</blockquote>This won't happen, SoE is all about SC now -- want a transfer, you will pay for it, no exceptions lol.Saying that one of those 2 options should happen would be unfair to CB if you went with option 1 (as they would not be offered the same free transfers you tout for LDL) and unfair to EVERY other merged server if you went with option 2 (as no one on those servers were offered free transfers).What should happen:1) If LDL wants to keep the RP tag then they should not be merged.2) If LDL gets merged into another server, the tag (or lack thereof) of the server retaining server name should apply.

Gimmiethat

01-09-2011 06:37 PM

<cite>Chakos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote>But anyway, I STILL have yet to see any logical or compelling arguement from a CB member opposed to a RP tag that goes past "I don't like the idea of a RP" tag.</blockquote>The exact same thing can be said for those of you wanting the tag, you only have to flip your arguments for keeping the tag.Bottom line is, if you are being merged INTO CB then you become a part of CB -- CB does not suddenly become RP preferred (which would be a lie anyhow, as the clear majority of the server will not PREFER RP).</blockquote>Well -- no one ever specifically said it would be LdL INTO CB. Rothgar and SJ said LdL merged WITH CB.Other merges were specific... I have NOT seen anything like this:Kithicor -> ButcherblockNektulos -> GukMistmoore -> PermafrostBefallen -> OasisRunnyeye -> SplitpawInnovation -> ValorAnd again, according to SOE's subscription numbers - the current populations aren't that much different.

Chakos

01-09-2011 06:46 PM

<cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well -- no one ever specifically said it would be LdL INTO CB. Rothgar and SJ said LdL merged WITH CB.Other merges were specific... I have NOT seen anything like this:Kithicor -> ButcherblockNektulos -> GukMistmoore -> PermafrostBefallen -> OasisRunnyeye -> SplitpawInnovation -> ValorAnd again, according to SOE's subscription numbers - the current populations aren't that much different. </blockquote>Ok, on the flip side, if CB is merged INTO LDL then the RP tag should stay.If, as some have requested, a new server name is given, then the community of the new server should be able to vote on a tag or lack of one.Also, activity cannot be judged by raw numbers, and LDL's numbers are quite a bit behind CB's -- of course the side with the much lesser amount is going to define them as not being "that much different" lol. As I recall, LDL has been calling for a merge, not CB, even if LDL's rpers don't think there's a need for one.

Kamimura

01-09-2011 06:47 PM

<cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote>But anyway, I STILL have yet to see any logical or compelling arguement from a CB member opposed to a RP tag that goes past "I don't like the idea of a RP" tag.</blockquote>It's rather simple, and much the same as the arguments you give for wanting to keep the tag. There are people who pick RP servers because of the RP tag. There are also people who pick servers without the tag - for example, all of Crushbone. People who want the tag don't want new players to overlook the server because there is no tag - people who don't want the tag don't want new players to overlook the server because of the tag. Which would draw more people? Also? To be frank "I don't like the idea of an RP tag" is a valid reason. Why? Again, there are folks on CB who chose to roll on a server without the tag. Why should they be happy to have a tag forced on them that they do not want? It's just the flip side for the argument for the tag - people picked LDL because of the tag. Why should they be happy to have their tag removed?Valid reasons, no matter which way you flip them. Either way, doing a straight merge of CB and LDL is going to leave a large group of people unhappy.

Gimmiethat

01-09-2011 06:50 PM

<cite>Chakos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>Option Two: Keep the tag off, but offer free transfers to a server that has a growing RP community.</blockquote>This won't happen, SoE is all about SC now -- want a transfer, you will pay for it, no exceptions lol.Saying that one of those 2 options should happen would be unfair to CB if you went with option 1 (as they would not be offered the same free transfers you tout for LDL) and unfair to EVERY other merged server if you went with option 2 (as no one on those servers were offered free transfers).What should happen:1) If LDL wants to keep the RP tag then they should not be merged.2) If LDL gets merged into another server, the tag (or lack thereof) of the server retaining server name should apply.</blockquote>Merging LdL with CB is different and we all recognize it... So being 'fair' to customers who where merged last month isn't an issue. 1 - LdL is being merged based on an SOE business choice... not because some LdL accounts wanted it. 2 - If LdL is merged with a server that doesn't have an RP-Prefered tag without some other option... then the merged server should be RP-Prefered tagged.

Troubor

01-09-2011 06:59 PM

<cite>Nevissa@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote>But anyway, I STILL have yet to see any logical or compelling arguement from a CB member opposed to a RP tag that goes past "I don't like the idea of a RP" tag.</blockquote>It's rather simple, and much the same as the arguments you give for wanting to keep the tag. There are people who pick RP servers because of the RP tag. There are also people who pick servers without the tag - for example, all of Crushbone. People who want the tag don't want new players to overlook the server because there is no tag - people who don't want the tag don't want new players to overlook the server because of the tag. Which would draw more people? Also? To be frank "I don't like the idea of an RP tag" is a valid reason. Why? Again, there are folks on CB who chose to roll on a server without the tag. Why should they be happy to have a tag forced on them that they do not want? It's just the flip side for the argument for the tag - people picked LDL because of the tag. Why should they be happy to have their tag removed?Valid reasons, no matter which way you flip them. Either way, doing a straight merge of CB and LDL is going to leave a large group of people unhappy.</blockquote>And yet if we look at AB server, it's huge. Pre-merger it's probably the largest server. And yet despite, possibly in part because of the RP tag they are very healthy and fine. Plenty of people whom never even consider RP and whom probably complelty ignore RP events, be they player ran or guide/GM ran moved to AB due to it's size and/or due to being recruited by or applying for a guild there. With the merger, I think and assume that CB-LDL would now be the largest. I'm sure plenty of people would ignore said tag to come to CB. Anyone recruited by a guild would go there regardless of tag, they are joining said guild to raid or do whatever it is that guild does. So yes, I STILL say I see no real compelling reasons when we have a perfectly healthy and huge server relative to the total game population in Antonia Bayle server, with the RP preferred tag.I will agree to one thing though, this merger will leave a lot unhappy. Hopefully the developers can get past just raw numbers and actually figure this out.

Gimmiethat

01-09-2011 07:01 PM

<cite>Chakos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well -- no one ever specifically said it would be LdL INTO CB. Rothgar and SJ said LdL merged WITH CB.Other merges were specific... I have NOT seen anything like this:Kithicor -> ButcherblockNektulos -> GukMistmoore -> PermafrostBefallen -> OasisRunnyeye -> SplitpawInnovation -> ValorAnd again, according to SOE's subscription numbers - the current populations aren't that much different. </blockquote>Ok, on the flip side, if CB is merged INTO LDL then the RP tag should stay.If, as some have requested, a new server name is given, then the community of the new server should be able to vote on a tag or lack of one.Also, activity cannot be judged by raw numbers, and LDL's numbers are quite a bit behind CB's -- of course the side with the much lesser amount is going to define them as not being "that much different" lol. As I recall, LDL has been calling for a merge, not CB, even if LDL's rpers don't think there's a need for one.</blockquote>A vote -- ya, a vote is gonna be real fair... as long as my side has more votes than yours! A straight vote can be one of the most unfair ways to make a decision.And besides, when's the last time you saw SOE put something to a community vote?

Troubor

01-09-2011 07:03 PM

<cite>Chakos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote>But anyway, I STILL have yet to see any logical or compelling arguement from a CB member opposed to a RP tag that goes past "I don't like the idea of a RP" tag.</blockquote>Bottom line is, if you are being merged INTO CB then you become a part of CB -- CB does not suddenly become RP preferred (which would be a lie anyhow, as the clear majority of the server will not PREFER RP).</blockquote>There isn't a majority of RPers on AB or LDL. RP preferred is possibly a misnomer. What it DOES mean is that a RP community DOES exist, more so then on a standard server, both percentage wise and probably population wise. And thus, for those seeking such a playstyle, it is a place to go. That's it. So no, based on how the situation exists now on LDL and AB, it's far from a clear lie. You gain a RP community. Thus the server if anything compared to how it exists now on LDL and AB DOES become RP preferred.

Chakos

01-09-2011 07:03 PM

<cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Merging LdL with CB is different and we all recognize it... So being 'fair' to customers who where merged last month isn't an issue. 1 - LdL is being merged based on an SOE business choice... not because some LdL accounts wanted it. 2 - If LdL is merged with a server that doesn't have an RP-Prefered tag without some other option... then the merged server should be RP-Prefered tagged.</blockquote>It's obvious that you only care about what you want, the concerns others have don't matter to you at all if they don't echo your own.1) LDL being merged very likely has everything to do with the uproar of those on LDL who have been up in arms over having not been merged as the other servers were. Trying to put it back all on SoE is a clever way to try and deflect that and make it Sony's fault.2) As with everything else you have posted, you only have to flip what you have said to make the EXACT same argument for your opposition. "If CB is merged with a server that DOES have a RP-preferred tag without some other option... then the merged server should NOT be RP-preferred tagged."Free transfers are just not going to happen, an *automatic* RP-preferred tag should NOT happen. If one server is merged into the other, then the tag or lack of one of the server to retain it's name should remain. If a newly named server is created, the community of that new server should be allowed to vote on whether it gains a tag or not.

Kamimura

01-09-2011 07:07 PM

<cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote>So yes, I STILL say I see no real compelling reasons when we have a perfectly healthy and huge server relative to the total game population in Antonia Bayle server, with the RP preferred tag.</blockquote>If you can't understand the reasons why people don't want the tag, when they're basically the same reasons you're giving for the tag in reverse... well, don't be surprised when people don't go for your reasons, either.

Troubor

01-09-2011 07:08 PM

<cite>Chakos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Merging LdL with CB is different and we all recognize it... So being 'fair' to customers who where merged last month isn't an issue. 1 - LdL is being merged based on an SOE business choice... not because some LdL accounts wanted it. 2 - If LdL is merged with a server that doesn't have an RP-Prefered tag without some other option... then the merged server should be RP-Prefered tagged.</blockquote>It's obvious that you only care about what you want, the concerns others have don't matter to you at all if they don't echo your own.1) LDL being merged very likely has everything to do with the uproar of those on LDL who have been up in arms over having not been merged as the other servers were. Trying to put it back all on SoE is a clever way to try and deflect that and make it Sony's fault.2) As with everything else you have posted, you only have to flip what you have said to make the EXACT same argument for your opposition. "If CB is merged with a server that DOES have a RP-preferred tag without some other option... then the merged server should NOT be RP-preferred tagged."Free transfers are just not going to happen, an *automatic* RP-preferred tag should NOT happen. If one server is merged into the other, then the tag or lack of one of the server to retain it's name should remain. If a newly named server is created, the community of that new server should be allowed to vote on whether it gains a tag or not.</blockquote>So, even if CB-LDL (my name for the newly merged server to be clear) gains a RP community, the second largest, with only AB having one larger, CB-LDL shouldn't have the RP preferred tag? Why not? If a RP community is suddenly dropped into such a population, shouldn't it be allowed to advert via said tag that it does exist, please come here if you like that sort of game play, we too have it along with AB?

Chakos

01-09-2011 07:10 PM

<cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote>A vote -- ya, a vote is gonna be real fair... as long as my side has more votes than yours! A straight vote can be some of the most unfair ways to make a decision.And besides, when's the last time you saw SOE put something to a community vote? </blockquote>Either way, someone is going to be unhappy. I am not on CB or LDL, so it does not affect me in any way; my point is that those of you arguing for the RP tag have no more of a case than those who are arguing against it. And no, I don't expect SoE to put anything to a vote, just saying it would be the fairest way, regardless of if you think your side of the vote has the numbers to get your way or not. The point of a vote isn't to guarantee that you get what you want, only that you get a voice in it, with the greater number of votes determining what happens (presumably translating into a greater number of content players).

Troubor

01-09-2011 07:11 PM

<cite>Nevissa@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote>So yes, I STILL say I see no real compelling reasons when we have a perfectly healthy and huge server relative to the total game population in Antonia Bayle server, with the RP preferred tag.</blockquote>If you can't understand the reasons why people don't want the tag, when they're basically the same reasons you're giving for the tag in reverse... well, don't be surprised when people don't go for your reasons, either. </blockquote>I understand fine. I just don't see much strength in your arguement when we have the obvious example of AB server being huge regardless of tag or not. LDL was perfectly healthy until only a few months ago. And again as I keep explaining I know plenty who came to LDL or AB simply to join a guild there, tag or no tag. So the arguement that a RP tag will somehow cause people to not join CB just doesn't seem logical when I've personally seen otherwise on my server until roughly six months ago, and can still see that AB is huge even with their tag.I will stop for now, I can see we're going to go in circles and agree to disagree forever. But I understand why. But I'm far from convinced that there is any logical reason as to why some on CB are so loathe to accept the tag past an emotional "We don't like it".

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