<cite>Bansaw@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have to disagree on the above comment that Hibernation makes a Fury a better group healer.  Group healing is the Wardens "thing"..   Between stackable group HoT's as well as Grove, we also have our level 80 specialty heal which is again.. a group heal.  </p></blockquote>Are you referring to Heirophantic Provenance? If so it is a single target heal that stuns us. The only time you would use this spell is to power feed, and given how laughable T8 has made power management, it is rarely used. And you cannot even begin to compare our tree to Hibernation. Pull out the spell descriptions and compare them sometime. You will be unpleasantly surprised. Furys have all the group heals we do, but they also have Hibernation, and that spell makes them the best group healers in game.

<p>Fairy is the level 80 group heal..I think..and it's raidwide, or at least AoE - which makes it pretty useful.  We also get Tide of Healing at 80, but that's an upgrade to our old group heal. Hierophantic Provenance is single target, not group.    I have heard this spell referred to as our 'class defining' heal - and I could not disagree more.  It's very situational, and although good in those very few situations, has limited usefulness other places, IMO.</p><p>I think if you were to parse Fury and Warden on the same single group fight..with the Fury healing only, Wardens would still out heal them, and it's because of our group heals, IMO (too).</p><p>That said, many many people that play Fury don't maximize it or play it to capacity.  This is true of Warden, as well.  I was on a raid once where another Warden asked me if she should put Ward of the Untamed on her hotbar for the fight..and I /boggled.   But I digress LOL</p>

<cite>Elyssa@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bansaw@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have to disagree on the above comment that Hibernation makes a Fury a better group healer.  Group healing is the Wardens "thing"..   Between stackable group HoT's as well as Grove, we also have our level 80 specialty heal which is again.. a group heal.  </p></blockquote>Are you referring to Heirophantic Provenance? If so it is a single target heal that stuns us. The only time you would use this spell is to power feed, and given how laughable T8 has made power management, it is rarely used. And you cannot even begin to compare our tree to Hibernation. Pull out the spell descriptions and compare them sometime. You will be unpleasantly surprised. Furys have all the group heals we do, but they also have Hibernation, and that spell makes them the best group healers in game.</blockquote><p>I'm looking over fury vs warden spells and I just don't see how furies can compair to wardens at all for group heals.</p><p>Looking on Alakzahm for spells I just compaired 50-60 spells because their 70-80 is incomplete. Also stuck with adept 3 versions of all spells.</p><p>Fury:</p><p>Cry of Untaimed (level 56): group heal for 588-718. average of 653.</p><p>Hibernation (58 ): wait 10 sec after cast and group healed 1118-1367 in one tick. average of 1243.</p><p>Bestial Feast (57): debuff 72 sec duration. If target dies group gets buffed 62 str/stamina and healed 88-107 for 6 ticks (total duration of buff 18 sec) average of 585 (if the mob dies and you still have stuff to kill)</p><p>Warden: </p><p>Winds of Healing (56): group heal for 458-539 initial + 77-94 for 6 ticks. average of 1012.</p><p>Wild Cholrostorm (56): group heal for 300-367 for 5 ticks. average of 1668.</p><p>Protecting Grove(58 ): summons a pet that heals the entire group for about 180 per tick (3 seconds) for 60 sec. AA can extend this duration to 1min 15 sec with recast of 1min 30 sec. average of 3600 (based on 60 sec duration). Healing in a 10 sec window: 540 (which is easier to gauge vs the other healing spells).</p><p>So examining these spells, we clearly heal more in all cases except for Bestial Feast vs Protecting Grove.  However, protecting grove is guarenteed healing that starts immediately. Bestial feast depends on the mob dying in the time window and is only useful as healing if your fighting multiple mobs. Actually for the full 18 sec protecting grove would heal 1080 so nevermind, it way out heals Bestial feast for the same duration.</p><p>What group healing spells am I missing for Furies? So far they have to overcome a healing deficiency of 3:2 (in the warden's favor) to match warden group healing at t6. Numbers may change in t8, if anyone wants to find them and post 'em be my guest. Please post your source for info as well. If taken in game make sure you are asking one character for all info as gear may alter numbers. Also in t8 the fairy needs to be taken into account.</p><p>edited to remove 8) and replace with 8 )</p>

<p>You somehow managed to miss the Fury group regen:</p><p>Level 56 Owls Grace: Heals group members AE for 300-367 instantly and every 2 secs.</p><p>Sound familiar to you? It should  as it is exactly the same as our group regen. You can't be serious about the tree. Sure you can park it in a wall and it won't die, but it can be pretty tough to find a convenient wall at times.  The tree is definitely not something you can cast on the fly.  The majority of the time I simply won't cast it on a raid since I know it's just going to die. It also heals 300 every 3 secs, hardly something to write home about. The Faery is actually a single target heal. If it dies it will heal 8 people in range for 850, so if you are lucky a total of 6800 every 2mins.</p><p> Did you notice that Hibernation has a recast time of 10 secs? Or that it can be modified by AAs to auto trigger when group members drop below a certain health %? We get pwned by it's healing hands down. How many times do you think a Fury can cast Hibernation in the time we are waiting for the cooldown timers on the tree and the faery? </p><p> But let me provide you with some proof. Here is the healing breakdown comparison from our last Leviathan run. Leviathan is one of the few situational fights that the Faery will last its full duration, so you can even see how that stacks up in comparison. I am just going to let the figures speak for themselves.</p><p><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/EQ2pics/izalevi.jpg" alt="" width="686" height="528" border="0" /></p><p> <img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/EQ2pics/elylevi.jpg" alt="" width="688" height="521" border="0" /></p>

<p>Edit:  Just don't wanna get into it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  <3 you guys</p>

<cite>Elyssa@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You somehow managed to miss the Fury group regen:</p><p>Level 56 Owls Grace: Heals group members AE for 300-367 instantly and every 2 secs.</p><p>Sound familiar to you? It should  as it is exactly the same as our group regen. You can't be serious about the tree. Sure you can park it in a wall and it won't die, but it can be pretty tough to find a convenient wall at times.  The tree is definitely not something you can cast on the fly.  The majority of the time I simply won't cast it on a raid since I know it's just going to die. It also heals 300 every 3 secs, hardly something to write home about. The Faery is actually a single target heal. If it dies it will heal 8 people in range for 850, so if you are lucky a total of 6800 every 2mins.</p><p> Did you notice that Hibernation has a recast time of 10 secs? Or that it can be modified by AAs to auto trigger when group members drop below a certain health %? We get pwned by it's healing hands down. How many times do you think a Fury can cast Hibernation in the time we are waiting for the cooldown timers on the tree and the faery? </p><p> But let me provide you with some proof. Here is the healing breakdown comparison from our last Leviathan run. Leviathan is one of the few situational fights that the Faery will last its full duration, so you can even see how that stacks up in comparison. I am just going to let the figures speak for themselves.</p></blockquote><p>Those numbers really don't mean anything.  You're only comparing 2 people.  I normally hit between 1 and 3 on a heal parse for any raid I have done (have never been out parsed by a fury).  I also find that wardens have better power efficiency (NOT counting the epic)  I have almost always been the last healer to run OOP and not for lack of healing (again, talking pre Epic here).  This means healing consistantly and and using my heals to their best abilities.  I have a high level fury and warden and I have no doubt in my mind that wardens (generally...varies depending on the skill of the player) have the power to pump out *way* more healing than a fury.  Once you're OOP, not much healing you can do.</p><p>I think if you did a similar parse over say 100 raids, you would find much different info.  I use my group heals all the time and I adore them.  They very often can save non tanks from dying when my tank is needing healing as well as others in the group.  I'm not trying to be difficult.  I respect your opinion.  I just disagree with it.  BTW, there are some furies out there who are excellent healers and make the most of their spells so I'm not making a blanket statement about furies, just in general.</p>

<p>Ok, I do want to get into it.  My post was initially saying exactly what Arani said - only I was not really in the mood to have anyone read it and say I thought Wardens were 'fine just fine' and that we didn't need any help, buffs, or work on our heals:  we do.</p><p>My comment to the numbers posted were:  those numbers themselves don't really tell me that Fury is consistently a better healer than we are and that Wardens might as well just give up.  Unless the circumstances are completely equal:  the Warden is also solo healing a group of insane aggro pullers (read - caster or melee dps), the Fury solo healing said group is almost always going to do more healing per raid.     If you are a Warden solo healing a group with no other healers (even a necro), your parse is going to be pretty close to the Fury one, but for different reasons.Reading the posted, my thought was 'Oh..that Fury is A) a good healer ..wow, unusual for a Fury and B) Elyssa's in the MT group.    NOT 'wow Furys are Tha UBers and Wardens suck'.   If you were solo healing a group, they were not taking as much damage, or that Fury was healing across the raid more than you were.  You were outhealed by a really good Fury with more healing chances than you had.  Doesn't mean Wardens (or you) suck.   That's all I see from it.</p><p>That said, yeah, I'd like to see some raid utility.  Heck even in WoW a Priest can shackle (root) epic mobs.  Comes in handy.  I'd like to see a groupwide offensive buff, I'd like to see something like Back into the Fray.   I'd like to see a lot of things.</p><p>Right now though, my finger is hovering over the 'cancel account' button - but for different reasons than I think the class sucks.</p>

<p>I think the point is being missed. This is not an argument about power efficiency or best priest class, it is about who is the better group healer. Furys have more tools than us to keep a group alive and are therefore better group healers. Lets do a straight up comparison.   </p><p>To keep a group alive a warden will use: </p><p>Healstorm Heals group for 600 per tick on average </p><p>Tide of Healing Heals group for 900 and then 90-100 for 5 ticks </p><p>Grove heals group 300 per 3 secs. <b>1 min recast</b>   </p><p>Fury</p><p> Autumns Kiss Heals group 600 per tick on average </p><p>Untamed Regeneration Heals Group 1171 </p><p>Hibernation: Heals group 1201 <b>10 sec recast    </b> </p><p>If you look at the heal parse I provided, Awakening which is which is the heal Hibernation does accounts for a full 23% of healing. Our tree does not even begin to compare to what Hibernation does. Just take a look at the numbers.</p>

You proved nothing. Parses are useless if u got no clue how read it.In fact what made a fury or a warden win a "group" heal parse in a raid encounter its the group. Put the fury on a group plenty of choker users and a necro lifeburning, and the fury will destroy the heal parse. And now put the warden in same group, yes the warden gonna destroy the heal parse also. And both gonna heal the EXACT same numbers...The group heals both have don't matter at all, its all about the damage your group can take, not abouth your ability to patch HP bars, you cant win a group heal contest if there its no HPs to heal.

<cite>Elyssa@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bansaw@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have to disagree on the above comment that Hibernation makes a Fury a better group healer.  Group healing is the Wardens "thing"..   Between stackable group HoT's as well as Grove, we also have our level 80 specialty heal which is again.. a group heal.  </p></blockquote>Are you referring to Heirophantic Provenance? If so it is a single target heal that stuns us. The only time you would use this spell is to power feed, and given how laughable T8 has made power management, it is rarely used. And you cannot even begin to compare our tree to Hibernation. Pull out the spell descriptions and compare them sometime. You will be unpleasantly surprised. Furys have all the group heals we do, but they also have Hibernation, and that spell makes them the best group healers in game.</blockquote><p>No, I most certainly am not referring to Heirophantic Provenance.  I find that spell to be all but useless.  I'm referring to Faerie ally.  As for the tree, It's just another "group" heal that when stacked with all the rest of our group heals make us better in that department.    As for my "opinion,"  it's just that, and opinion.  I'm just giving my two cents having just betrayed back to Warden from Fury and having healed in raid settings with both classes.  I find it much easier to group heal with a warden.  Also, I'm not sure if you were in MT group or not, but if you were then you can expect to be outhealed by a fury as he/she is not behind wards and reactives. </p><p>As for your Hibernation.. 1201 every 10 seconds..   Healstorm/600 every two seconds, recast 12 seconds duration 10 seconds.  Seems to me I just beat your Hibernation with the first two tics of my Healstorm and still have 3 tics left.  not to mention I can just about keep it running all the time .. and that's without +heal gear.  </p>

<cite>Bansaw@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote> Hibernation.. 1201 every 10 seconds..   Healstorm/600 every two seconds, recast 12 seconds duration 10 seconds.  Seems to me I just beat your Hibernation with the first two tics of my Healstorm and still have 3 tics left.  not to mention I can just about keep it running all the time .. and that's without +heal gear.  </blockquote><p>Do you even read? Furys get the exact same heal as Healstorm, down to the same heal values, except their version is called Autumns Kiss. They not only get the same heals we do, they also have Hibernation on top of that. The only thing we get in comparison is the Tree and you certainly cannot tell me that they even begin to compare. Furys simply have more tools than us to keep a group alive ergo they are better group healers. </p><p>I can't believe that even straight facts are not enough. No wonder warden class issues are never addressed. </p>

<cite>Gitana@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>The group heals both have don't matter at all, its all about the damage your group can take, not abouth your ability to patch HP bars, you cant win a group heal contest if there its no HPs to heal.</blockquote><p>So lets apply your logic to a dps parse. It doesn't matter how much damage you can do it's the mobs hp bar. You can't win a damage parse if the mob no longer has any hps.</p><p>I am fully aware that a group heal parse is dependant on how much damage a group takes. Regardless, this does not change the fact that Hibernation means furys are better at healing that damage than wardens.</p><p>Furys overall are better group healers than us, they have better dps than us, they bring more useful buffs to the raid table than us. These are all disparities that need to be addressed, and saying they are irrelevant means the warden class will continue to languish at the bottom of the priest class ladder. </p>

Only comenting on the group healing poweryour heal parses show:a Warden on less Overload Heal items then the Fury,¿ on prolly a tank group, MT or off-tank ?casting more single heals then group heals...and show a Fury on loads Overload Heal itemsprolly on a dps group on all HPs getting in yellow/Red, chokers.. AEs.. deaths..and casting more group heals...In a no way this parses prove a fury's better group healing <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Fury its group healing, and warden its single healing.What i am telling you its dont matter if Fury or Warden plays on that DPS group, ant end fight both gonna heal the <b>exactly same</b> if they got same DPS group, both gonna heal every damage group takes.  As far as group healing both druids are almost the same, you need to try play on those "fury" groups as warden and u gonna see what i am saying, its "<b>exactly</b>" the same parses, just different spells.My guild lacking a fury lattelly so i played some raids on those "Fury" dps groups and i can tell you, its the same healing power, pretty much equal when u see a fury or a warden parse heal on same group setups and fights. Its not my logic its just how works <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />On other things like dps buffs etc.. well i gearing/leveling up a fury <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

<cite>Elyssa@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You somehow managed to miss the Fury group regen:</p><p>Level 56 Owls Grace: Heals group members AE for 300-367 instantly and every 2 secs.</p><p>Sound familiar to you? It should  as it is exactly the same as our group regen. You can't be serious about the tree. Sure you can park it in a wall and it won't die, but it can be pretty tough to find a convenient wall at times.  The tree is definitely not something you can cast on the fly.  The majority of the time I simply won't cast it on a raid since I know it's just going to die. It also heals 300 every 3 secs, hardly something to write home about. The Faery is actually a single target heal. If it dies it will heal 8 people in range for 850, so if you are lucky a total of 6800 every 2mins.</p><p> Did you notice that Hibernation has a recast time of 10 secs? Or that it can be modified by AAs to auto trigger when group members drop below a certain health %? We get pwned by it's healing hands down. How many times do you think a Fury can cast Hibernation in the time we are waiting for the cooldown timers on the tree and the faery? </p><p> But let me provide you with some proof. Here is the healing breakdown comparison from our last Leviathan run. Leviathan is one of the few situational fights that the Faery will last its full duration, so you can even see how that stacks up in comparison. I am just going to let the figures speak for themselves.</p></blockquote>How many other healers were in the Warden's group? (I am assuming the Warden was in the MT group so a Shaman Warding a ton of damage before any healing is needed and a Cleric doing their healing thing as well&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> How many healers were in the Fury's group? Apples and oranges, and another example of how parsing distorts the game so badly. I'm not an active full time Raiding person, so I'm not entitled to an opinion of what Wardens lack or do well at endgame in raiding situations. But your parse posts taken in the vaccum you post them without any reference to the make up of the rest of the group mean nothing. 

I just betrayed from Fury to warden. I've never been scientific enough to offer raw data and I've not yet done enough as a warden to really begin to comment. My first thoughts were: 1. our emergency heals aren't as good-my imagination or real. I dunno. I just know what I'm used to as I'm running like a bat outta heck from aggro <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 2. I miss hybernation. I miss having it as a pre-pulling ward. (If cast right, it won't toss aggro on to me). OTOH, it can often be casted and never needed and in power fights can be a waste of mana (or a life saver-heh-when it does trigger). 3. the tree and faerie seem to offer me options I never had before. When I see a bad pull, I slap those babies down and they help me control things while all heck is breaking lose. I like that. 4. Regenerating spores is a nice buff. Me loves it. 5. Warden's AA's seem to respect the fact they are healers. They're not perfect, but not too shabby. Our epic and level 80 spells show a trend to emphasize the Fury DPS angle. The Warden's honor us as healers. 6. I miss my back to the frey spell. If that odd little stun me heal spell is supposed to be the same...it's not <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 7. I've healed both as a fury and a warden. I feel I could have continued as a fury and been fine but I do feel more confident as a warden. There are some buffs I miss but htere are other furies around to toss those out.

<cite>Gitana@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Only comenting on the group healing poweryour heal parses show:a Warden on less Overload Heal items then the Fury,¿ on prolly a tank group, MT or off-tank ?casting more single heals then group heals...and show a Fury on loads Overload Heal itemsprolly on a dps group on all HPs getting in yellow/Red, chokers.. AEs.. deaths..and casting more group heals...In a no way this parses prove a fury's better group healing <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />Fury its group healing, and warden its single healing.What i am telling you its dont matter if Fury or Warden plays on that DPS group, ant end fight both gonna heal the <b>exactly same</b> if they got same DPS group, both gonna heal every damage group takes.  As far as group healing both druids are almost the same, you need to try play on those "fury" groups as warden and u gonna see what i am saying, its "<b>exactly</b>" the same parses, just different spells.My guild lacking a fury lattelly so i played some raids on those "Fury" dps groups and i can tell you, its the same healing power, pretty much equal when u see a fury or a warden parse heal on same group setups and fights. Its not my logic its just how works <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />On other things like dps buffs etc.. well i gearing/leveling up a fury <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>I agree, it looks like a well geared Fury healing his/her butt off while a Warden sits in the MT group getting scraps from the shammy and temp.  I have to assume it's the MT group since that's the only place a raid guild would put a Warden.  </p><p>Anywho, having raided as both a Warden and a Fury my experience was that I had an easier time putting the green numbers back in a group as a Warden.  Hibernate is a nice spell and I know it's a 10 second recast but it takes 10 seconds to pop after you cast it.  In that 10 seconds Tide of healing has healed for 900 and 150 per second for 6 seconds.  1800 give or take in 6 seconds while Hibernate has not even gone off yet.  Stacked with Healstorm and backed up with Grove and Faerie I found it faster and easier to fill my group up.  Again, that's just my experience having played both classes.  </p><p>Seriously Elyssa, no need to get salty.  We all know the Warden class lacks in just about every department imaginable.  We all also know that the Fury is a better designed class and brings more to a raid but out of all the things I'd want a developer to look at for my class, group heals is not one of them.  </p>

<p>Agree here.   And I DO understand the arguement is not which class is better and not whining.   I don't want for a second for anyone to think I think we are FINE...I don't.   </p><p>If Elyssa has seen that Fury is a better group healer - fine.   I haven't, and don't agree - is all.  And I don't think the numbers posted 'prove' it...is all.  I completely respect your right to think it or say it.   Please respect mine to disagree ::grin::</p>

<p>My druid's name is Silverwolf.</p><p>I don't care which is better, wardens turn into wolves, so I am a Warden.  End of Story. </p><p>I hope I was helpful in this discussion. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

<cite>Zwildstar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>My druid's name is Silverwolf.</p><p>I don't care which is better, wardens turn into wolves, so I am a Warden.  End of Story. </p><p>I hope I was helpful in this discussion. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>I'd say this was the most helpful remark in the whole thread..../hugs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Just want to make a quick statement about this. And to let you know...if it matters...I was a warden up until level 74, then betrayed to fury for a little change and to be more useful in my guilds raids. (yes I said it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)I heal the mage group. In the mage group, the only time someone loses health is when A) there is an AoE, in which case we have someone calling it, I cast hibernate, group HoT, done. B) Someone is one-shotted, can't heal that now can I? If by chance they gain aggro but are not one-shotted, my single target heals keep them alive wonderfully (I love return to the pack)So really...if buffs didn't exist, yeah a warden or a fury would be fine for this group...but I give int to the casters, feral to the troub, and heal them just fine.

<cite>Brei@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just want to make a quick statement about this. And to let you know...if it matters...I was a warden up until level 74, then betrayed to fury for a little change and to be more useful in my guilds raids. (yes I said it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />)I heal the mage group. In the mage group, the only time someone loses health is when A) there is an AoE, in which case we have someone calling it, I cast hibernate, group HoT, done. B) Someone is one-shotted, can't heal that now can I? If by chance they gain aggro but are not one-shotted, my single target heals keep them alive wonderfully (I love return to the pack)So really...if buffs didn't exist, yeah a warden or a fury would be fine for this group...but I give int to the casters, feral to the troub, and heal them just fine.</blockquote><p>Since you have experience with both classes - and a significant amount of it:    The argument in the thread is more that Fury is a better GROUP healer than Warden - something I don't find true based on the time-honored 'seems like' method.  Elyssa posted a parse comparison earlier which 'proved' it ...but several of us think there are mitigating circumstances that make those numbers not so valid.   It's less an argument about which class is overall better..that's been hashed out over and over in other threads.</p><p>In your experience, do you think you heal your group with GROUP heals significantly better than when you were a Warden?  And do you think, or know based on your numbers..if you are a better overall group healer than you were then?   That's kind of what the arguement is about.    </p><p>I say we are about the same - but done in a different way.   </p>

I would agree...it's about the same. As a warden, the HoTs do great to quickly heal up a group. As a fury, I can pre-cast hibernate, which fills up a good part of the groups health bars and my group HoT and the group is topped off.I see no difference in the two classes ability's to heal a group, as long as the person behind the keyboard is playing the class well that is <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

It’s simple. A fury will cast hibernate knowing an AE is inc. AE hits. Hibernate casts and heals group 1.2k. Fury casts group Hot. Ticks and heals group to full. For a warden. AE hits. Warden casts Tide of Healing and heals group for 1k. Warden casts Group Hot. Ticks and heals group to full. A fury will heal a group FASTER after an AE hits simply because they do not have to waste time casting 2 heals to our one. Hibernate can be precast. Hibernate will also trigger if any group member drops below 15% health. It is an extremely useful heal and we have nothing that compares to it. The heal parse I posted was not meant to be taken in terms of the overall raw numbers healed, but was meant to show how useful a heal Hibernate is. Hibernate accounted for 23% of the heals cast, that is a significant amount of group healing power that we don’t have an equivalent of.