woah, alchemy still has far more practical uses than sages. you can still make your own stuff; and other peoples; you are still going to have the best buffs for ink etc. You just no longer have the monopoly you had. Which is a good thing, as by-and-large the existing alchemists are responsible for their own downfall by gouging prices; and SOE responded by taking away the items which you were gouging for.2-3s for stroma worts on RE..As for carpenters: I truly am sorry, I think carps really do luck out in many aspects of the game; however you do get boxes; which are a great source of income, I do agree that carpenters skills need looking into; not convinced about the alch's tho. Maybe put fuel on the non-archetype line up by 1, to money sink a little more, and give alchs a defined (but not overpriced) market.

<blockquote><hr>bieb wrote:woah, alchemy still has far more practical uses than sages. you can still make your own stuff; and other peoples; you are still going to have the best buffs for ink etc. You just no longer have the monopoly you had. Which is a good thing, as by-and-large the existing alchemists are responsible for their own downfall by gouging prices; and SOE responded by taking away the items which you were gouging for.2-3s for stroma worts on RE.<hr></blockquote>2-3s for Stroma Chemicals is absolutely unacceptable. But, making these chemicals absolutely impossible to sell is not the way to fix it.<img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

<DIV>Yesterday on Lucan I put my tailors left-over stroma WORTS  for 82cp each on the broker and they all sold within 30 minutes. I made them myself and a stack did cost me  180 cp so 7 stacks netted a profit of about 1 gold.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Given that others sell the stuff they craft with my worts for 10+ silver I think its a fair price and even 2 silver wouldnt be greedy imo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Myself I buy buckles for my tier2 backpacks for up to 5 silver because I sell bthe BBs for about 20 silver and making them myself with double fuel is also expensive (and a pain like everything at the forge)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So regarding my personal experience the economy works for <FONT color=#99ff00>real crafters </FONT>but not for <FONT color=#99ff00>moneymakers.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#99ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>And theres nothing wrong with that<FONT color=#99ff00> :smileyhappy:</FONT></DIV>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bieb wrote:<BR>woah, alchemy still has far more practical uses than sages. you can still make your own stuff; and other peoples; you are still going to have the best buffs for ink etc. You just no longer have the monopoly you had. Which is a good thing, as by-and-large the existing alchemists are responsible for their own downfall by gouging prices; and SOE responded by taking away the items which you were gouging for.<BR>2-3s for stroma worts on RE..<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, with both apothecary and chemistry maxxed for my level (40), I make pristine WROTs and inks much more easily using the apothecary skill than I do using chemistry.   It has been that way since I started looking at apothecary on the day the patch went live (at approx. level 35 in alchemy).    Alchemists have no advantage whatsoever over anyone else in making inks or WROTs and given the current utility of the other items alchemists make, this is not a good situation.<BR> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Amise on <span class=date_text>03-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:32 AM</span>

trying to raise apocrathy or any of the new skills at t5 is rough..fuel costs for 4 stacks of fuel is 10gp..pretty nutty..1g 84silver is it?...primary for carpentry kinda frustrates many carpenters since armorers did get to use their primary skill metal shaping to make their primary..why can't carpenters use sculpting(shaping) buffs to make their own primaries?..10 gp-2 fuel for lumber then 2 more for planning- for stack of primary minus the cost to bring these skills up is pretty horrible, mostly because soe already did make a change for another artisan class-this was even before new skills or fuels- and seems unwilling to make same exception for carpenters..seems like a double standard assuming armor is much more important than enviroment which a player chooses to immerse in.far as alchemists..i do feel pretty bad..with merchant cost drop and writ no longer as real viable source of income they were already forced to sell to players..but soe in a blind rush nerfed even this<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> should've given least a month to see how it pans out...i think what really needs to be done is..not just acknowledgement that is never followed up but..soe releasing it vision it has for EQ2 and what roles they expect artisans to play in it..

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bleusong wrote:<BR>trying to raise apocrathy or any of the new skills at t5 is rough..fuel costs for 4 stacks of fuel is 10gp..pretty nutty..1g 84silver is it?...<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You don't need to use T5 items to raise the skills.   As long as you are not using grey buffs you can skillup quickly and easily on T1 items.  You must make green or higher items to gain experience but you do not need to if you are just raising your skills.  It is much cheaper and faster to do it using low level ingrediants.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Amise on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:10 AM</span>

<DIV>Oops, didn't read your post before responding. Disregard this :smileyindifferent:</DIV><p>Message Edited by RoseWhite on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:04 AM</span>

<P>Unfortunately, the interdependancy system always bred greed.  It was too expensive to do tradeskill tasks because the cost outweighed the gain.  I for one stopped trying to do the tasks and made my own alchemist.  </P> <P>The new system allows for interim products to be made by everyone.  You still can't make a final product unless it is your profession.  WORTs are not final products.  Allowing you to make pristine armor is not fair because these are final products.  I'm not an outfitter, but I am glad to see that profession can now make money.</P> <P>I do, however, agree that final products like potions and poisons should be fixed.  I would also suggest more final products be given to alchemists.</P> <P>Here is MY fix.  Allow us to make enchantment potions that would permanently give a special ability to a piece of armor or weapon.  This is NOT be required to finish an item, but it would make the item so much more worth its weight in gold.  We could make potions for every attribute and the amount added to the attribute would depend on the quality.  It would also make items unique.  </P> <P>Of course this could get out of hand so maybe only allow one or two enchantments per item.</P> <P>That's interdependancy that is not forced, but desired by other professions.  It should always be about choice.</P>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bleusong wrote:<BR>trying to raise apocrathy or any of the new skills at t5 is rough..fuel costs for 4 stacks of fuel is 10gp..pretty nutty..1g 84silver is it?...<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually until they fix the bug, you can be using T1 fuel.... I was not even trying to do this the other day, but my T3 fuel ran out without me noticing... eventually I noticed it had just started consuming my T1 fuel instead...... I was not even trying to exploit, I just keep all my fuels and such in one bag for convience.... the game exploited itself!  </P> <P>That is messed up... and many people use this on purpose, and what incentive do they not to other than knowing they should not?  It helps them actually not loose money.</P> <P>So really the fuel cost advantage for using a "main" (alchemy) skill rather than a "side" (apothecary) skill is only 4cp for anyone doing that.<BR></P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*EDIT*  I am not condoning exploting bugs... and I have read about this one many times here already.... so I'm not trying to spread info about it, but rather point out how it further weakens an alchmists market.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Valhuru on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:01 PM</span>

<DIV>The thing that really destroyed crafting/trades for me was the fuel cost as a carpenter.  I spend alot more then I get back for my final products when I sell back to NPC, even though I buy everything fresh from him.  If I try to sell on the open market, it takes me weeks to sell furniture to other players, and even then I don't sell most of my products.  I get lucky if I sell 5 out of 20.  The market for carpenters is just not there, even with strong boxes its just not there.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then then on top of that,  you to spend all that time wasted at your house trying to sell the stuff no one wants in the first place, but that is another gripe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I remember when I would get bored with adventuring I would love to go in to craft and do that for but now, I can't do that because I can't afford it now.  So instead of getting bored with adventuring now I am getting bored with the game itself, which is pretty sad.</DIV>

<blockquote><hr>Valhuru wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bleusong wrote:trying to raise apocrathy or any of the new skills at t5 is rough..fuel costs for 4 stacks of fuel is 10gp..pretty nutty..1g 84silver is it?... <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually until they fix the bug, you can be using T1 fuel.... I was not even trying to do this the other day, but my T3 fuel ran out without me noticing... eventually I noticed it had just started consuming my T1 fuel instead...... I was not even trying to exploit, I just keep all my fuels and such in one bag for convience.... the game exploited itself! </P> <P>That is messed up... and many people use this on purpose, and what incentive do they not to other than knowing they should not? It helps them actually not loose money.</P> <P>So really the fuel cost advantage for using a "main" (alchemy) skill rather than a "side" (apothecary) skill is only 4cp for anyone doing that.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*EDIT* I am not condoning exploting bugs... and I have read about this one many times here already.... so I'm not trying to spread info about it, but rather point out how it further weakens an alchmists market.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Valhuru on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:01 PM</span><hr></blockquote>bug was fixed while ago<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />it gets fun at t5 magic<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 6 stack of fuel to make 20 items will run ya 15gp=)and furniture you create, folks can just by from merchant for few silver at most<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> for rares..hmm..as it stands..if folks use the rare on armor instead of furniture..they don't have an upgrade for a forseable future<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> only at t5 does it really make sense to make gear out of it..so you are stuck with high costs<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Bleusong on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:52 PM</span>

<P>5 stars for you</P> <P>This upcoming change with enhancements needs to be "alchey only" and able to be made using the new apocrathy methods.</P>

So Blackguard, you say that no artisan class is being ignored and y'all are looking at tradeskilling as a whole?Well let me just bump this back up for ya.

<blockquote><hr>RoseWhite wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bleusong wrote:<BR>carpentry has been ignored...completely...here are some threads to give folks better understanding about what is wrong with carpentry..<BR><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a5&message.id=1481&view=by_date_a scending&page=1" target=_blank>consolidated carpentry issues by Didi</A><BR><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=470 41&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank>more carpentry issues, and links to other carpentry posts on forum</A><BR><BR>thank you..i have no more energy left to talk about this more..<BR><BR>.../shrug..thank you for your time, everyone.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Adding insult to injury, Blackguard has posted to the first of these two threads, so we <STRONG><EM>know </EM></STRONG>that SOE is aware of the issues.</DIV><hr></blockquote>So is moorgard<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> QUOTE: Steve "Moorgard" Danuser: In the case of provisioners, we didn't remove store-bought food from NPC merchants; we made crafted food better. Similarly, crafted furniture has advantages over furniture bought in the stores.While there is some duplication in appearances between crafted and store-bought furniture, there are hundreds of furniture appearances that are unique to artisans. Some of the coolest furniture simply hasn't been made yet, perhaps because it requires very rare components to do so. High-level furniture made with rare components will provide a status symbol that can definitely earn admiration for the owner.but..umm..what hundreds of furniture items...is he talking about..?..and what RARE has not been made yet?..i think it's all been done..i know i've made every rare except ebon lighting fixtures..and there are pics of em made on artisan websites..so..and i belive before any benefits to force people to buy furniture..as carpenters who went into profession KNOWING WE ARE MAKING FLUFF..we should get unique items<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />