Raiding aa's

[enjoilab]

<DIV>ok our guild finally got raiding t6(pvp server) our mt group set up is dirge, guard, pally, mystic, temp, and conj</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>which aa line should i go into to build around their skills    right now i have sta 4/4/1 wis 4/4/8 and i am only to my 26 aa point</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>should there be a certain line that mt group pallies need to go down to be effective or does aa's matter at all in raids</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ooh and btw is 4143 mit and 6300 hp good for a pally who hasnt raided yet and needs a few more upgrades?</DIV>

[Fatuus]

<P>Your mitigation is pointless in raids unless you are MT. Your hitpoints is worthless unless you are the MT or MA. The paladin's role in raids is aggro controll, rez patrol, and group buffs. The anti fear ability is helpful in some raid circumstances too.</P> <P>If you want to help the group, the wisdome aa line is the way to go, period. If all you want to do is buff a group max out the hitpoint regen and battle leadership lines. Personally I think its a waste to max it out, but its your call.</P> <P>I also recommend going the Strength line so you get the 10% casting timer and recasting timer reduction, the other abilities in the line are nice too. Some pallies like to go the INT or STA lines as well, personally I chose str to make me a better tank outside of raids. Sta is only really useful for the end ability, a whole 12 second immunity to all damage 50% or lower health wise. Problem with this is this ability is on a whopping 15 min recast timer...lol even with jesters cap on ya it still takes forever to come back up. The Int line makes your spells crit and heal more often, and the reflect is nice, so maybe that is the best line if you are thinking sole tanking abilities.</P> <P>Sadly, with the armor in T7, mitigation is no longer the end all issue it used to be. Some high end players can walk around with 80% mitigation while solo (aka almost 6k mitigation) with quested items and raid drops. This really nerfs the need for our pledge of armament line of spells (at master I it increases mit by 425). So there is really no need for you to be in a MT group anymore.</P> <P>Personally...obviously depending on availability and mob needs, a good MT group will consist of a Guardian, dirge, coercer, warden, templar, and mystic generally. This group will give the guardian a hate gain increase of about 80%, haste of 25%, DPS mod of 52%, and around 12k hitpoints with bolster on. All of this makes the guardians ability to keep aggro a lot easier...his main reason for being there.</P> <DIV>Flayedskin</DIV> <DIV>Guild Leader of Disciples of Destiny, Najena Server</DIV> <DIV>First Level 50/60/70 Troll Paladin Worldwide</DIV>

[Wulfborne]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fatuus wrote:<BR> <P>Your mitigation is pointless in raids unless you are MT. Your hitpoints is worthless unless you are the MT or MA. The paladin's role in raids is aggro controll, rez patrol, and group buffs. </P> <P>Sadly, with the armor in T7, mitigation is no longer the end all issue it used to be. Some high end players can walk around with 80% mitigation while solo (aka almost 6k mitigation) with quested items and raid drops. This really nerfs the need for our pledge of armament line of spells (at master I it increases mit by 425). So there is really no need for you to be in a MT group anymore.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Just a comment on the above portions of text...</P> <P>Your own mitigation is never pointless in a raid, even if you are not the MT. AEs hit everyone, and regular memwipes on some bosses tend to make you utilize your mit more than you may realize. (This goes for all your resists as well). Not only that, but because of a Paladin's ability to gain aggro very quickly, you are a prime candidate to take over tanking a mob if the MT happens to go down to spike damage or a lazy healer.</P> <P>Your role in a raid as a Paladin completely depends on the needs of the raid. You are not automatically always going to be the buffer, rezzer, etc, but you need to be ready to take on those jobs if necessary for the survival of your raid.</P> <P>I find myself in the MT group 95% of the time for any raid I attend. We have raided for a long time, and so our MT is fairly well decked out in gear. (I'm certain others are better, but that's not the point). He has mostly (if not all) T7 fabled gear. However, just because your mitigation reports a 80% mitigation doesn't mean you don't need more. That's 80% against <EM>the same level opponent.</EM> Since most of the boss mobs in raid zones are a few levels higher than we can get, (up to orange con in many cases), you will want more mitigation in order to hit that 80% cap for levels <EM>higher</EM> than your current level. Unfortunately there is no place I know of where you can check your percentage of mit against higher level opponents.</P> <P>AAs are just a way to tweak your character however you want. None of the abilities are game breaking, must-have's. Most people I speak with identify areas they need improvement in (whether DPS, aggro, utility, etc) and utilize their AAs to help fix those areas.</P> <P>Good luck to you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Champion of Drednever</P>

[OrcSlayer96]

<DIV>Futhermore, having a high mitigation on the pallie that is helping the mt is important especially now with the intercept line fix, toss that on the MT when he just dropped into the yellow or lower and let the healer get a chance to to bring his health up.  The higher our mitigation the less damage we take and can heal ourselves back before the recast timer on intercept comes back up.  I use this on other members, especially dps heavy mages to give them a chance at survival when a large nuke overcomes the tank's agro level.  As far as our pledge line being worthless, maybe in the top 1-2% of the guilds that have their MT way overcapped on mitigation, that is true, but i would wager many readers of this post are happy to see a pledge on the main tank.  Your AA choices are totally up to you but the wisdom and intelligence lines have the biggest group benefit versus the other lines.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wisdom with extra slashing attack to all people in the group, a nice 4.2 point skill bonus per point spent in the 3rd rank, 8.5 health per point regen per point spent in 4th rank, both of which are group ae based and stack with other crusaders.  The skill bonus is effectively reducing peoples fizzle rate, increase damage and makes you easier to hit a higher level mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Intelligence line is good for increasing your spell damage, you get a long range low power attack with smite, each point in the 3rd rank raises your spell damage crit by 8.5 which also increases proc crits too.  Each point in the 4th rank increases your heal/ward crit by 7.8 i think, boosting all your heals/wards and healing procs.  The whole point of the intelligence line is more dps and more bang for your buck spent on the same amount of power for a spell.  Tossing a crit Celestial touch at 5,300 health is nice thing to see...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Rocksthemic]

<div></div>For my tastes, the best MT group set up is Dirge, Coercer, Defiler, Templar, Gaurdian, Monk. Monk can cast buff on Guardian that gives 49% chance to use monks avoidance check on a melee hit. If the monk has 80% avoidance, that is roughly 38% more avoidance. Also the gaurdian can put moderate on the monk and allow him to do more dps without drawing aggro. Defiler in MT group because mystics can do bolster on any raid target, so can do out of group. Myself I am usually in the offtank group. I have Paladin, Assassin, Mystic, Inquisitor, Illusionist, Wizard. With the assassin using his hate dump on me, and me having amends on the wizard, I can gain aggro almost anytime I want with a few taunts. Rescue will place me on top of hate list 9/10 times even if I am only back up healing and not even attacking. This is a very powerful tool for offtanking, and the illusionist will give healing bonuses to your group, a further de-aggro on the wizard, and haste to the assassin. As far as AA's, it was stated before they are mostly for flavor. I do find the immune to fear very useful. And if you are going to be offtanking or even if you just find yourself having to tank. Divine aura isn't too bad. Thundaarr Unrest <Nightcap> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Rocksthemic on <span class=date_text>06-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:05 PM</span>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Rocksthemic wrote:<div></div>For my tastes, the best MT group set up is Dirge, Coercer, Defiler, Templar, Gaurdian, Monk. Monk can cast buff on Guardian that gives 49% chance to use monks avoidance check on a melee hit. If the monk has 80% avoidance, that is roughly 38% more avoidance. Also the gaurdian can put moderate on the monk and allow him to do more dps without drawing aggro. Defiler in MT group because mystics can do bolster on any raid target, so can do out of group. <b> Myself I am usually in the offtank group. I have Paladin, Assassin, Mystic, Inquisitor, Illusionist, Wizard. </b> With the assassin using his hate dump on me, and me having amends on the wizard, I can gain aggro almost anytime I want with a few taunts. Rescue will place me on top of hate list 9/10 times even if I am only back up healing and not even attacking. This is a very powerful tool for offtanking, and the illusionist will give healing bonuses to your group, a further de-aggro on the wizard, and haste to the assassin. As far as AA's, it was stated before they are mostly for flavor. I do find the immune to fear very useful. And if you are going to be offtanking or even if you just find yourself having to tank. Divine aura isn't too bad. Thundaarr Unrest <Nightcap> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Rocksthemic on <span class="date_text">06-22-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:05 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Might want to switch out a Templar instead of the Inquis in case you have an extra one.....since you are only getting about 964 (at max) HP from the Inquisitor with a Mystic in the group.  (because you are losing out on Pious for HP, since I am guessing the Mystic himself is going to cap your Stamina).Won't go into the whole Stamina stacking thing much though, since the mystic/defiler boards are jam packed with them <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Leawyn]

<DIV>Two of my favorite pallies in one thread... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> That means its a good thread!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(I leave it up to you guys to decide who my favorites are) <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Kale]

<div><blockquote><hr>OrcSlayer96 wrote:<div>Your AA choices are totally up to you but the wisdom and intelligence lines have the biggest group benefit versus the other lines.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Wisdom with extra slashing attack to all people in the group, a nice 4.2 point skill bonus per point spent in the 3rd rank, 8.5 health per point regen per point spent in 4th rank, both of which are group ae based and stack with other crusaders.  The skill bonus is effectively reducing peoples fizzle rate, increase damage and makes you easier to hit a higher level mob.</div> <div> </div> <div>Intelligence line is good for increasing your spell damage, you get a long range low power attack with smite, each point in the 3rd rank raises your spell damage crit by 8.5 which also increases proc crits too.  Each point in the 4th rank increases your heal/ward crit by 7.8 i think, boosting all your heals/wards and healing procs.  The whole point of the intelligence line is more dps and more bang for your buck spent on the same amount of power for a spell.  Tossing a crit Celestial touch at 5,300 health is nice thing to see...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>I've been watching your choices in your sig for a long time OrcSlayer and I was considering going down the exact same route myself. Thanks for the bit of added information here with those numbers. It helps solidify the thinking <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Leawyn]

<DIV>hehe i had exactly the same set up as Steel (pure coincidence) but just used my free respect go max out sta and int lines. Wis line I thought didn't bring enough of  a benefit like the extra crits and crit heals did. Crit heals are awesome. Healing for 1k+ on the group heal, and my single target regularly healing for 1400-1600, it really does help out more (IMHO) than a small regen would.</DIV>

[Anariale]

<div></div>Coming from a MT Paladin who regularly tanks Vyemm and the Elemental Warder (amongst others), Id reccomend going all the way down the STA and WIS lines.  (Note, we do have MT Guardian who covers 90% of mobs.  There are just certain mobs that better fit a Paladin... too bad its only like 10%)The immunity to Fear is nice because you can keep supporting the MT when everyone else is running scared.  Our heals kinda bite, but its useful in a pinch.  Is it worth 8 points?  I dunno, but what else are you gonna get?Divine Aura is wonderful now.  If the MT goes down, pop DA, Sigil and start taunting.  You can grab aggro quickly and it gives the healers 10 seconds to realize what just happened and switch buffs/healing up as necessary.Aside from that, Im not that big of a fan of the Crusader AA's.  Im debating dropping my extra point from the HP % (I mean, cmon, 0.5% of 10,000 is 50 HP.  Who cares) and putting another point into the Crit% line.  Still, I dunno.  Its really not that big of a difference.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Anariale on <span class=date_text>06-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:23 PM</span>

[Rocksthemic]

<blockquote><hr>Anariale wrote:<div></div>Coming from a MT Paladin who regularly tanks Vyemm and the Elemental Warder (amongst others), Id reccomend going all the way down the STA and WIS lines.  (Note, we do have MT Guardian who covers 90% of mobs.  There are just certain mobs that better fit a Paladin... too bad its only like 10%)The immunity to Fear is nice because you can keep supporting the MT when everyone else is running scared.  Our heals kinda bite, but its useful in a pinch.  Is it worth 8 points?  I dunno, but what else are you gonna get?Divine Aura is wonderful now.  If the MT goes down, pop DA, Sigil and start taunting.  You can grab aggro quickly and it gives the healers 10 seconds to realize what just happened and switch buffs/healing up as necessary.Aside from that, Im not that big of a fan of the Crusader AA's.  Im debating dropping my extra point from the HP % (I mean, cmon, 0.5% of 10,000 is 50 HP.  Who cares) and putting another point into the Crit% line.  Still, I dunno.  Its really not that big of a difference.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Anariale on <span class="date_text">06-23-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:23 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote> Aye, finally hit 49 AA's last night (i'm a slacker, what can I say) and I used my respec to go all the way down the stamina and wisdom lines. The fear immunity is VERY useful when everyone else is running around from AE fear. If nothing else it helps with you being the MA on Uncaged alzid in labs and the essence of fear in Lyceum. I also like the group bonuses it gives along wisdom line to your groups ordination, etc. Now that they have fixed divine aura it's worth having again. This was the first end AA skill I went for, but scrapped it until the recent fix. Even if it is a 15 minute re-use.. it's a great ability to have in a pinch. And to the poster who suggested a templar in my group when I am offtank, I agree. But we only have one templar in our guild heh. Thundaarr Unrest <Nightcap><div></div>

[Tames]

<P>Thanks for all the useful comments :smileyhappy:</P> <P>Isnt Battle Leadership largely useless with a group of 70's? It increases your spell and weapons skills but if they are maxxed then you cant go above that. If you are 400/400 then ading 20 Slashing doesnt give you 420/400 or at least it doesnt show on your skills chart.</P> <P>Its like an armour item with +8 Defence, once you max Def the +8 is useless and you are better off with something that boosts resists or others stats, providing they arent maxxed also.</P> <P>Of course I might be wrong and whats on the chart is BS and it has been parsed to show improvements with Battle Leadership App4 for instance?</P> <P>Can anyone comment on this please?</P>

[Anariale]

<DIV>+Skill buffs are really only useful on orange con mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>W</DIV>

[Tames]

<P>Thanks :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>Hmm so you be 420/400 in a skill if you are facing a yellow or better mob? Even though the Skills chart doesnt show it.</P> <P>Hmm and the same for defence? I better tell my Guild tanks that are declining +Def items on the basis that they are at the lvl 70 Def cap.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote:<BR> <DIV>hehe i had exactly the same set up as Steel (pure coincidence) but just used my free respect go max out sta and int lines. Wis line I thought didn't bring enough of  a benefit like the extra crits and crit heals did. Crit heals are awesome. Healing for 1k+ on the group heal, and my single target regularly healing for 1400-1600, it really does help out more (IMHO) than a small regen would.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Lady Leawyn, where have you been lately?  Your paladin sitting on the bench for awhile, playing the coercer?  Anyways, i like this thread with how my viewpoint has changed from pro sta/wis/int to maxxing crits and health on sta and int, good times...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>