INT Line

[robusticus]

<div></div><div>It seems to me that they've taken a great interest in the crusader INT line, but I was curious about one thing.  The first ability, Smite, requires a symbol to be used in lieu of a shield or a 2 hander, ie Secondary slot.  Was the intention here to have that be required in Secondary or Ranged slot?  Would that be a bug?  I know there was talk about it on another thread but it may have been missed.  Same goes for Reflection. </div><div> </div><div>I haven't tried it yet but Reflection seems to be one of those abilities, like Castigate, which would be awesome some percentage of the time and do nothing some other percentage of the time.  Very difficult to time it right for the effect.  Would it be better to have that be some sort of timed duration ability - ie, all profession spells reflected for 30 seconds?  Tough to justify 8 points on something so dubious.</div><p>Message Edited by robusticus on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:05 AM</span></p>

[OrcSlayer96]

<div>I would slant towards intended to be secondary slot, if you look at all of the 2 tiers of the the 5 paths they all ask for you to devote to a certain item you may not normally use.  Mace/hammer on stamina, axe on strength, sword/greatsword on wisdom, spear on agility, and "symbol" in secondary for intelligence.  Part of the whole theme to create more distict pallies from each other,and i am starting to see this in the game more often.  Currently i only have 18 aa points but i am shooting for a plan of 4/4/4/4 in STA, WIS, INT lines to see how all of the abilities help.  From the series of changes to the ending abilities i really think my points are spent on more usable skills.  The reflect ability has way too many restrictions for my taste.  Right now i have 4/4/4/4 in STA and like what i see in that line.  Currently working on INT line and seeing how that plays out then work on my WIS line.  I picked up a second Leggsicon tome last week and when i solo quest i like having it in my shield slot with my my prismatic longsword.  Bear in mind this is against mob areas green or lesser and not true exp grinding.  On our last raid i tried that format also, being as we already had a level 70 guardian MT, level 70 shadowknight MA and a few other tanks, and enjoyed the extra power regen and dps from my spells.  Really the most benefit you get from the INT class is if you want a boost in your spell casting crits and healing/ward crits, which I do...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[robusticus]

<div></div><p>In all of the 2nd row except for the INT path you can still use a shield if you prefer.  As you point out, the ranged slot can be used for power regen or a buff to defense depending on the item.  I think it makes sense to give us a greater flexibility on what we would want to sacrifice to use the smite ability, which currently for alot of us is just taking up points, I imagine.  In only very extreme cases given the current content would you want both a symbol and power regen but most of the time a 2 hander + symbol or 1H + shield + symbol.</p><p>I actually have 5 of them on smite atm and that's a source of my frustration - but what I get for picking an AA and pulling at the same time, while sleepy... but I digress again.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[OrcSlayer96]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>robusticus wrote:<div></div><p>In all of the 2nd row except for the INT path you can still use a shield if you prefer.  As you point out, the ranged slot can be used for power regen or a buff to defense depending on the item.  I think it makes sense to give us a greater flexibility on what we would want to sacrifice to use the smite ability, which currently for alot of us is just taking up points, I imagine.  In only very extreme cases given the current content would you want both a symbol and power regen but most of the time a 2 hander + symbol or 1H + shield + symbol.</p><p>I actually have 5 of them on smite atm and that's a source of my frustration - but what I get for picking an AA and pulling at the same time, while sleepy... but I digress again.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><hr></blockquote>I hear ya bud, i have yet to do a reset of my AA abilities and still have my free reset sitting in the window.  The way i see it we have AA abilities to help add helpful things to our class, but we really dont have any that are must haves to the point we are worthless without them.  I was going to ask you what the specs are on the smite spell on tier 2 of the intelligence path?  What is the recast time/casting time and spell damage range at your intelligence number and rank?  I will get there eventually but will probably be awhile only have 1 point in intelligence at level 18 of my achievement.

[Wallzak]

<div>My reponse is INT is an offense DPS stat as it raises our spell dps... to get greater offense you must give up defense, therefore a symbol as opposed to a shield.</div>

[robusticus]

<div></div><p>What if I wanted a symbol + 2 hander?  Or 1 and a half hander, like a katana, if you want an exotic solution.</p><p>In offensive stance with 255 int, with 5 AA points on Smite, it is 397-662 magic damage with a 20 second recast timer.</p>

[OrcSlayer96]

<div>If you dont mind me asking robusticus, what is the range and power cost for the smite ability, picked up another achievement and slowly chewing thru the int starter so i can see what that spell is like.  So if this is a long range spell we can get a 3rd single target spell ranged, then i am looking forward to using it.   Sounds like our divine vengeance line, thanks for the info so far...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[robusticus]

<div>Power - 71 Range 30 meters</div><div> </div><div>Good idea, now in all the ranged fights we get because we're too gimpy to tank the mob we will have something to fill the gap between the recast of judgement and brimstone.</div><div> </div><div>You know, when we had all that uproar and gnashing of teeth because we paled statwise in comparison to the bow wielders, wha wha wha... with Moorguard saying the code was too mangled to fix wha wha wha... I made the audacious suggestion that they should just give us bows.  That of course, was met with the typical you're not a real paladin, real paladins would never stoop to such a common level. blah blah blah</div><div> </div><div>Well, here we are now with the first indication of something that could actually be useful in the ranged slot except for it isn't at all useful because the AA makes you put the item that would ordinarily sit in your ranged slot in your secondary slot instead.</div><div> </div><div>Not that I would have even cared in the slightest but it seems a bit backward to me that they are more concerned with putting crusaders in their proper dps tier when we would be better served by looking at the many AAs that are useless and need tweaking.</div><div> </div><div>So long story short the nerf to wrath would sit alot better if it came with a fix to smite.  Oh, sorry, not fix... "policy change"...</div><div> </div><div>Btw, a friendly warlock pointed me to a nice symbol in Sanctum, the named banisher in the room with the fountain and wraiths... it has +5 disruption, mmmmm....</div>

[OrcSlayer96]

<div>Another thing to consider on smite is if it is "magic" damage instead of "divine" , we have a spell that can be used against high divine resist orient mobs/players.  The more i hear about this spell the better i like it.  The power cost is less than any ranged spell we have.  I think when i get to that level i will try some various symbols i have and see how it goes.  There have been many times in the past where raid wise it was better for me to stay with mages/scouts to help heal/ward/rez and i can go in this mode to feel a little more useful with a ranged attack..<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[robusticus]

<div></div>Well, maybe once in a blue moon it could be used, but I won't ever use it unless its changed.  I tried it this morning and it is a very noticable and horrid drop in dps.  Defeats the purpose.

[Wallzak]

<div>We really need to be screaming murder about the INT line nerf that is incoming (from 12.5 down to 8.5 per level).  This currently gives us some much needed DPS for when we are not MT.  I group constantly with Monks, and their ability to dish out dps and take a beating makes us look like a school girl.  There are stories (check the monk boards) of lvl 70 monks killing lvl 71^^^ named Heroics.  I don't know about you... I can't even come close to that.</div><div> </div><div>This is not a call for a monk nerf... but rather the need to address our ability to tank v.s. deal dps. </div>

[robusticus]

<div>We need a player's union and someone to organize us outside of SOE headquarters with big signs that say "NERF!!" on them.</div><div> </div><div>That's my best idea.  The only flaw I see is that might cut into our quest time.</div><div> </div><div>Otherwise, how would one go about officially screaming bloody murder?</div>

[OrcSlayer96]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>sammcduff wrote:<div>We really need to be screaming murder about the INT line nerf that is incoming (from 12.5 down to 8.5 per level).  This currently gives us some much needed DPS for when we are not MT.  I group constantly with Monks, and their ability to dish out dps and take a beating makes us look like a school girl.  There are stories (check the monk boards) of lvl 70 monks killing lvl 71^^^ named Heroics.  I don't know about you... I can't even come close to that.</div><div> </div><div>This is not a call for a monk nerf... but rather the need to address our ability to tank v.s. deal dps. </div><hr></blockquote>They reduced our spell crit down to roughly same as our heal crit ability.  A guaranteed 30 percent increase on any of our spells and procs was causing some of our high fabled/high proc players to put up some ungodly damage on the shadowknight side especially.  The devs did the same to the conjuror/necro AA ability if i rememember right and a maxed spell crit at 68% is definetly nothing to sneeze about.  At least they didnt change it like our one wisdom aa ability was before they fixed it and cause you to have a negative chance to spell crit till 4 ranks were put in, heheh.

[robusticus]

<div></div><p>My opinion on that whole line of thinking for those people with the great gear in large raiding guilds... make more and more insane content.  That's what they want and love anyway...</p><p>Critical spell damage is a natural path for a summoner.  For a crusader, it is heretical.  The very nature of the defensive versus offensive stance combined with the same survivability versus dps choices we have to make in the AA tree justify us getting more mileage out of damage spell critical hit percentage.</p><p>be all that as it may, I am willing to concede the point that it should be systemic in terms of the numbers for all classes.. if I can please have my smite with a symbol in the ranged slot... mechanically it is actually a very nice ability with a short cast timer... but too restrictive at this point <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[OrcSlayer96]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>robusticus wrote:<div></div><p>My opinion on that whole line of thinking for those people with the great gear in large raiding guilds... make more and more insane content.  That's what they want and love anyway...</p><p>Critical spell damage is a natural path for a summoner.  For a crusader, it is heretical.  The very nature of the defensive versus offensive stance combined with the same survivability versus dps choices we have to make in the AA tree justify us getting more mileage out of damage spell critical hit percentage.</p><p>be all that as it may, I am willing to concede the point that it should be systemic in terms of the numbers for all classes.. if I can please have my smite with a symbol in the ranged slot... mechanically it is actually a very nice ability with a short cast timer... but too restrictive at this point <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>I still dont see a problem with it, if you are tanking, chances are you are never using this spell when you need to devote to taunts and ae's.  When in utility mode you have another option as a range attacker with refusal line/judgement line/decree or brimstone/ and now smite.  Load up on power regen gear and be a range attacker and healer/warder from a distance for added flavor.  The next level boosts spell crit so you will see more damage from smite and other spells too.  I am curious about how our healing crit works tho, does it boost wards also or just heals and healing procs?

[robusticus]

<div></div><p>In my case my 2 handers are much better than my 1 handers... thus I get more dps that way than using smite... for stun ae's tho I do range and I will have to remember I now have an extra attack and switch to that mode...</p><p>Heal/ward criticals are good - probably will be better if wards crit instead of "leak" <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - but expensive at 9-17 AA points... looking at higher ground too and those tempting spell timer increases.</p>

[Walker0]

<DIV>Hello,</DIV> <DIV> I was wondering if anyone has just taken the stats across the board and didn't go further down the lines. At about 10% to 40, none of the lines look appealing at all. Just stuck firmly in my mind, paladins do not wield axes. All the spears I have seen on brokers or in game have been the hind [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] of all weapons as far as DPS. Hammers are fine, but the skill line looks dubious. The remaining line....I can't see any paladin chargning into battle waving about a book or voodoo doll in combat. Pfft. Ii try to picture a group fighting and the tank drops his shield and breaks out a book....odds are that tank will look back and realize he's by himself.</DIV> <DIV> I suppose the biggest problem with the lines are the weapon requirements that pigeon hole you're fighting style.</DIV> <DIV> So, currently I am only investing in 1st tier stat upgrades. Does anyone think this would be helpful in the long run and viable, or should I respec to Int line and start hunting for a rather thick book to wave around at enemy mobs?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[robusticus]

<P>I wouldn't recommend stats.  I tried that and was miserable with it.</P> <P>It's helpful when trying to pick a path to imagine the ability you want most with 8 points on it instead of 1 (what it tells you off the bat)...</P> <P>For example, if you are tanking and find you have aggro problems, you'll probably be interested in the hate gain AA.  At 1.3% hate gain it looks pretty gimpy, but at 10.4% - you're tanking like it or not, most likely.  So you would approach it like that and then having that you would probably make a point of getting a good axe to utilize the 2nd ability in that line...</P> <P>In my case, I probably wouldn't mind throwing a book at the mobs and using smite if I had a good one handed crusher.  That would enable hammer ground, which is also one of my favorite AAs.  I like being able to toss the mobs around like bowling pins.  But at the moment I prefer my katana, anyway, most of the time, because it has great dps and a cool proc.  So go figure.</P><p>Message Edited by robusticus on <span class=date_text>04-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:20 AM</span>

[Wallzak]

<P>I would agree... while the extra stats are nice, I've found that with gear I can quickly move from MT to DPS adding 30%+ to my dps output (I've seen my INT hit 668, useless, but nice to show off).  I've gone down the INT line maxed out the spell crit and now I'm going down STA to give me better defense.  I'm thinking about changing that to STR. </P> <P>The int spell crit proc,  although it's about to be nerf, is FREAKING AMAZING... I've seen refusal hit for over 2400... consecrate hitting high 200 regularly... I've seen 300 more than once!  The range attack, it crits as well, is another range attack for raids that crits for 700+.  While the symbol might seem silly, but we are part priest... and in raid situations I am never MT so I go with the dress and symbol and dps.</P> <P>The STA group knock back... again... amazing... nothing like walking into the middle of an epic mob, and knocking the mob boss (yes, it does affect epics... so does out kick) and all their buddies on their butts!</P> <P>The STR line looks tempting... ok, I heard it's great but I haven't looked at it much, I think there is a shorted spell time and ?? I can't remember.</P> <P>The larger question which hasn't been asked or answered is what is happening with AA's in the next expansion.  I see three options:</P> <P>1.  No changes, just more AA points to fill out the tree.</P> <P>2.  They widen the chart to give more than 5 lines.  This would be unlikely being it's based on stats and we only have 5.</P> <P>3.  They lengthen the lines.  This seems to be the most likely, allowing you to specialize even more. </P> <P>The implications is when the next aa expansion comes out the whole aa thing changes again (free reset again??).</P> <P> </P>

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sammcduff wrote:<BR> <P>The larger question which hasn't been asked or answered is what is happening with AA's in the next expansion.  I see three options:</P> <P>1.  No changes, just more AA points to fill out the tree.</P> <P>2.  They widen the chart to give more than 5 lines.  This would be unlikely being it's based on stats and we only have 5.</P> <P>3.  They lengthen the lines.  This seems to be the most likely, allowing you to specialize even more. </P> <P>The implications is when the next aa expansion comes out the whole aa thing changes again (free reset again??).</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah I've wondered the same thing. Will they add more AA's with each expansion (10 new ones to go with 10 new levels)? Will they start rotating, with one expansion giving adventure/tradeskill levels, one giving AA's (thus making them more "lasting" hehe)? Will they add AA's? Can we get 2 hand bash please!?!? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[OrcSlayer96]

<DIV>The whole symbol versus shield debate for the int line is situtional.  If you are not the main tank and it looks like you can relax from having to be emergency tank, then you gain no real benefit from similar stat shield to symbol.  If the mobs are not on you then the extra avoidance/block is inmaterial and the question will be:  In the group do i feel more effective using a 2 hander in offense mode or a 1 hander and symbol.  Remember that the shield bash will work with a symbol in your secondary slot and with a hammer/mace/club in primary slot you can bring alot of stuns and abilities to the table in this mode.  Most of my damage comes froms the procs/ combat arts/ spells and not the melee damage my weapon is doing.</DIV>

[Corillis Ironhi]

<DIV>Hi everyone,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My name is Corillis, and I play on the Runnyeye server.</DIV> <DIV>I'm a level 70 paladin, and thusfar have 21 AP's, all of which I spent on the INT line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love the paladin class. We're able to solo many things other classes cannot. With one major drawback though, the only reason  we can is because with our heals we can bore mobs to death.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm pretty much a casual player. I do sometimes play long hours, and usually my play days are mon - fri with raids on mon, wed and friday. I'm often online during the day, and it happens often that I have to solo. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When the AP's came out, I had a good look through them, and I didn't immediately see anything  really useful. I always focussed on DPS, since that's a paladin's weak spot. When I solo, I go 2-hander in offensive and use stun/ward combo's to keep myself alive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my opinion, the benefits of the INT line are the following:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First step: increase raw int. -- Every class gets a greater stat increases for lines that are not 'native' to the class. In case of pallies, the int line gives 8 raw ponts of int per rank, for a total of 64 at rank 8. Since pally gear usually doesn't have a lot of int on it, spending 8 points on this one will give you a boost on your nuking. We do have some nukes, but most of them are 30 / 60 sec reuse nukes, so increasing their efectiveness makes this part of our class more worthwhile.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The second step, the smite ability. -- At first I couldn't see how this ony would be usefull. Since I 2-hand when solo and 1H / Shield in groups, I didn't feel like spending a lot of points on this ability. Just 4 to be able to take the next AA's. But then I found out the following: If you put a symbol in your secondary, you do lose your shield, but at level 8 of the ability you get a 20 sec reuse, low power cost 450ish - 750ish magic nuke with a good casting range, short casting time, with a decent amount of hate generation, so it seems. I now equip a one-hander with 2 symbols (1 in range and one in my secondary). My dps with offensive / 2 hander and offensive / 1 hander in combo with this smite is about equal, provided the symbol you use in your secondary has a decent amount of int on it. In groups I still go defensive, but I often start off with the 1 hander / symbol combo, and a button to equip a shield. So going from  offensive to shielded just requires you to equip a shield. (unlike going from 2 hander to 1 hander + shield, which takes 2 switches.) All in all, now that I have 8 points in it, I LOVE this one!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The third step, spell crits. -- Even though they 'nerfed' this one, at level 8 you still get a decent amount of crits on your nukes. Your spell nukes are even more interesting in combo with the raw int from ability 1. Plus, the crits also work on the second smite ability. You will defenately notice this in your aggro generation, overall dps and fun in the game (don't you just love the big numbers? :p )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fourth ability, healing crits. -- When going 1 hander + symbol in offensive, using the second ability smite, your dps is high enough not to require a 2 hander. In offensive it's often not easy to channel our heals, so any heal that does land, and crit, is a bonus. Maxing this line will allow you to solo more targets than you could without it, but also aid you in your ability to tank in groups. When you focus on the int line, instead of a 'tanking' line, you give up the extra tanking, but in return you can mitiate this 'loss' by casting bigger, better heals. Since we're not exactly a master at healing, this ability will prove it's uses more often than not. I sure am loving it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Final ability, reflect. -- While I decided not to take any final ability, this one may really prove it's uses on raids. With the current state of the game regarding raids, it isn't really worthwhile to stand in the AE's of raid targets, bacause our dps doens't justify the extra healing required to keep us alive. This ability wil give you a chance to not worry about that for one AE round. This in combo with crits, heals crits, smite, extra int etc should nudge our dps enough to be viable enough to stand in the AE's of mobs. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason I'm posting this is because I hardly see any posts on our int line, other than saying it sucks. It doesn't. The AP's give you a choice on how to tune your character. Either go with tanking AP's, and narrow your character, but become better at it, or go INT, and expand your character in the sense of becoming better at what you couldn't do well, at the cost of not getting a whole lot better as a pure tank. This trade-off is a personal choice. Go more defensive (better tank) , or go offensive (better aggro generation).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope this sheds some light on the underappreciated side of pallies, we do dish out some decent damage, and unless you're a raid tank, ask yourself if you want to be a better tank (do you need to be?) or do you want to kick some behinds, buy a robe, focus on int, and do tier 2 damage? It's up to you!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS: FYI I do have some raid gear, but most of it is T6 fabled, with T7 legendary drops from exp/quest groups. 8.5K - 9K hp buffed in groups, 4.5ish K Mitigation (depending on gear set-up) 4.something K power. I was in a group last night, with a level 66(?) templar, 66 conj, 70 troub, 70 illu, 70 brigand and I, and we cleared all of Halls of Fate, including all nameds. We wiped a lot, but with only one healer, we falt this was a nice achievement. (reason I'm mentioning is because mobs there do hit for 3-8K, depending on luck, and I had no AA's in tanking abilities, just int.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Be safe, and enjoy your travels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Corillis Ironhill</DIV> <DIV>Dutch Guild - Lowland Elites</DIV> <DIV>Dwarf - Clan Ironhill </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[robusticus]

<P>Cool post, Cor... we can officially declare the start of the Runnyeye invasion of the pally forum.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Say hi to Val for me.  Maybe you guys could throw me a raid invite someday and show me how it's done...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> did a pickup raid over the weekend and got bounced HARD out of lyceum, by x2 mobs no less.  But we regrouped and spent a good 3 hours in temple so I guess not too bad all in all...</P> <P>I am liking the INT line quite a bit, too.  Now that our wards crit I think most of this is quite a bit less severe anyway, and I'm not feeling quite so up in arms about it.  Crit spell damage is good, I bumped that up to 6 after LU22 to put me basically where I was before the nerf.  Yes, the big numbers are way cool.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>On Smite...</P> <P>One of the key things in what you've said I think is that 1H + symbol with smite gives you an EQUAL amount of dps in comparison with a 2 hander.  For me that isn't true, but I can see how it would be... my 1H is lvl 61, my 2H is 67 and it has about a 300 dmg proc 8% of swings.  I still feel that the situation was unintended.  I feel like smite should be usable with a 2 hander and that the intention was to allow us to increase and maximize DPS.  </P> <P>Mages I think have this option as well but for them it would truly be shield versus symbol, solo versus group.  I don't know that they gave it much thought for crusaders in terms of what we can do with a 2 hander.  Consider also that you are now maxing the INT line... what will you do next?  STR is equally good for our DPS and a pally with both lines maxed I think would be a most fearsome beast.  If you had max attack speed then you would probably find your 2 hander does better dps than smite.</P> <P>And if the intention was truly to give us more range (even tho the range slot is prohibited)... then you could also make a case for two symbols + a shield, to put the avoidance check in play if your raid had ample dps but was short on defense.  </P> <P>The other lines are different in that they do not really specify a different choice of slot - it goes more by TYPE of item you can put in the same slot(s).  To me, that would be cool for symbols (ie, offensive symbol only)... but that would also probably be a fairly significant design change that would be lower priority even for me.</P> <P>I'm not passing judgement either... it is a subtle and easily missed concept when you have to work with so many different classes.  Been running around with my beer mug in the off hand to celebrate brew day and so I've been pretty happy all in all.  Like I said, I think this is a much lower priority then some other things we would like to see, namely making sacrament and castigate effective tools for the pally MT.</P>

[Corillis Ironhi]

<blockquote><hr>robusticus wrote:<P>Cool post, Cor... we can officially declare the start of the Runnyeye invasion of the pally forum.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Say hi to Val for me.  Maybe you guys could throw me a raid invite someday and show me how it's done...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P><hr>I'll convey the message, but I'm afraid our raids are guild-only, since we usually have 24 and sometimes more people wanting to attend. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><blockquote><hr>robusticus wrote:<hr><P>One of the key things in what you've said I think is that 1H + symbol with smite gives you an EQUAL amount of dps in comparison with a 2 hander.  For me that isn't true, but I can see how it would be... my 1H is lvl 61, my 2H is 67 and it has about a 300 dmg proc 8% of swings.  I still feel that the situation was unintended.  I feel like smite should be usable with a 2 hander and that the intention was to allow us to increase and maximize DPS.  </P><hr><P>I wrote up that message in a rush, and I perhaps misformulated the part regarding the equality of 1 hander + symbol and the smite versus using 2-handers. I have multiple weapons, and of those, my 2 handers really have nice stats (not the best, but good enough). While using a 2-hander, I dish out decent damage, but at the loss of an extra slot for stats. When using a 1-hander and 2 symbols (secondary and ranged), my overal stats are better, but my dps is a bit lower than when using a 2-hander. But what I meant to say was that this option of using a one-hander instead of a 2-hander, and an extra symbol instead of a shield gives enough benefits to offset the loss of dps when giving up the 2-hander option. If you see the 1H + 2x symbol option not as a secondary option, but as a primary option, perhaps you'll 'invest' more time, plat, raid loot points (DKP,ELP, etc) in a better one-hander. I'm currently using one with about 65 damage rating and good stats, and the gap between 1- and 2-handers has lessened. When I'm using a 2-hander, I'll equip more +def, +sta and +agi items, when I'm using a 1-hander, my gear set is completely different. I have more than 30 extra items for resists, stats, effects, procs etc, to be able to choose what gear I need in different group setups, different targets and zones etc. Instead of only having 2 main options (tanking or dps) I now have one inbetween those two, where I can still choose to do more damage, but don't have to face mobs fully in offensive. Being able to equip a shield on the fly, instead of having to wait for the equipment change timer in combat is perhaps the greatest asset of this line. You also asked what I'd take next... I'm planning on maxing all the int ones (save the final one) and put the rest in the wis line. I think the wis line has some great AA's too, that complement the int line because it makes soloing easier, and I feel the int/wis combo would make my pally in a killer char. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />In a good group, with the right buffs I dish out about 400 dps, with spikes to 600, or 800+ if we're getting nasty with multiple encounters and going flat out AE.When I play with my brother ( a troub ) all the int-line effects get mutiplied because of his procs, casting bonus, etc. Anyway, great to see more people like this line, perhaps after reading all this even more people will be inclined to use that free AA changer and respect to int <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Corillisedits because I can't quote <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Corillis Ironhill on <span class=date_text>04-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:59 PM</span>

[robusticus]

<P>Yeah, most guilds are like that, it is understandable why.  Besides, the time zone differences are also prohibitive.  And with lockouts the reverse situation (me inviting guild raiders to our little pickups) is also impossible.</P> <P>Anyway... I looked at the WIS line too and will probably end up with a balance between STR, WIS and INT... with 8 on Legionairre's Mercy as the only one maxed out.  I like the idea of being a double threat - melee or divine.  Gearwise I'll probably end up with the one handed axe from I think it is POA (some sort of cleaver) and a symbol or shield.  I wish Rumdum had an upgraded quest that would give a +25 INT "Overflowing" Stein of Moggock.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>