The Joys of Resistable Taunts ...

[djhbeek]

anyone else think this is well ... a little bit extreme? yellow mobs = complete agro lock. orange mobs = more than half of all taunts resisted.  doable with hate-steals, hate songs, etc ... but a complete and utter pita. i can't tell you the amount of times i've pulled with AOE taunt, and built hate on NONE of the mobs on the pull, just see resists fly up off of all the mobs. i really don't have a problem with the feature in theory, but in pratice, it seems the cut-off seems too sharp.  it really prevents you from tanking effectively if you happen to be lower level than the rest of the group, but able to tank the mobs fine due to gear and/or higher level healers. since healers don't get resisted healing me, this effectively means a 57 tank can group with a 52 healer, but not vice versa ... <div></div>

[Cu]

<DIV>Yeah I have the same experience. In a group hunting cyclops, 95% of my taunts stuck on a lvl 57 cyclops, like 50% on 58, and then like 20% on 59..  Also when pulling 59s with Decree sometimes they all resisted and really hard to keep aggro then. Took me a while to convince my group not go full DPS if they saw resists flying above the head of mob during pull <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree with you, I like the idea of taunts being resisted in theory but it just gets really annoying when fighting orange..</DIV>

[RyFord00]

<DIV>In one of the recent updates, they clearly stated that fightning orange con mobs will be more difficut than fightning yellow etc, as it should be.  So yes, you will have a harder time taunting and casting spells on an orange con mob.  Stick with mobs around your level range.</DIV>

[djhbeek]

um ... i know that, but my point was there should be a logical progression, not a brick wall. mobs around my level range (including all of yellow) are a joke in a full group due to my and my group-mates gear.  i think it's valid to ask that there is some level of mob that is the appropriate challenge ... not just "too easy" and "too hard". <div></div>

[RyFord00]

<DIV>In your orignal post you stated that "yellow mobs = agro lock".  So what's the problem?  Orange mobs are NOT in your level range, period.  Regardless of your group's gear....</DIV> <P>Message Edited by RyFord00 on <SPAN class=date_text>10-03-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:07 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by RyFord00 on <span class=date_text>10-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:07 PM</span>

[djhbeek]

so in your opinion we should have a game which for some players is a combination of mobs that are either too easy or too hard (and not because they hit me too hard)?  seems to me mobs should have a progression in difficulty, not just "oh, it's X color, i'll go back to mobs i can trio" ... it discourages full groups ... i can debuff mit and if i work at it, i can kinda hit them ... as far as i know, there's no way to debuff a mobs resistance to taunts, nor a stat i can buff to help my hit percentage ... if anyone knows any info on this, let me know. Ry ... no one at SOE said orange mobs are "unkillable", yet you seem to have the opinion that i shouldn't even being attacking them ... whatever ... if you find the existing white/yellows challenging, have fun killing them ... <div></div>

[Jindris]

<DIV>Thats one thing I never heard anyone complain about before the combat revamp: The fact that clarion call was no longer a "long range taunt that cannot be resisted".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At first I only noticed resists on zealous preaching. I figured it was the divine debuff that was getting resisted, until I seen clarion call get resisted.</DIV>

[RyFord00]

<DIV><EM>"Ry ... no one at SOE said orange mobs are "unkillable", yet you seem to have the opinion that i shouldn't even being attacking them ... whatever ... if you find the existing white/yellows challenging, have fun killing them ..."</EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your right, no one said that.  Stay on subject... My remark is intended for your whining about certain level mobs resisting your taunts/spells.  So again I will illiterate; if you do not want your taunts/spells resisted at a high rate, fight mobs around YOUR level...</DIV>

[Kale]

<span><blockquote><hr>RyFord00 wrote:<div><em>"Ry ... no one at SOE said orange mobs are "unkillable", yet you seem to have the opinion that i shouldn't even being attacking them ... whatever ... if you find the existing white/yellows challenging, have fun killing them ..."</em></div> <div> </div> <div>Your right, no one said that.  Stay on subject... My remark is intended for your whining about certain level mobs resisting your taunts/spells.  So again I will illiterate; if you do not want your taunts/spells resisted at a high rate, fight mobs around YOUR level...</div><hr></blockquote> But here is the problem: fighting mobs at their level isn't challenging. It's boring. So what do you do then? What if you want to fight higher level mobs for more challenge? I'm not saying aggro control shouldn't be part of the challenge - it should. But the OP is saying that the aggro challenge scales too steeply, and I agree. Aggro control should not be the only factor in determining the difficulty of the fight. There should be more to it than that. Crowd control, stunning to interrupt casters, surviving harder hitting mobs with more hit points... Those things should also be a factor. When you move from a yellow to an orange con encounter, the mobs hit harder and they have more hit points, and crowd control becomes more difficut for enchanters/rooters. But those things become more difficult at a rate that is logical - it's like a steady slope. Aggro control should become more difficult on that same slope, not on a steeper one. </span><div></div>

[RyFord00]

<DIV>I do agree that fightning white-yellow con mobs is almost too easy, and because of this my grind group would only fight orange con mobs...  And yes; they resist a lot, they have more hp etc, but they are easily "grindable" and a far better challenge.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I am saying is, if you can't handle the difficulty of higher resists, hp, attack of a higher con mob.. stay within your level range.  The OP is implying that orange con mobs are <U>too</U> challenging. Which imo is not the case at all.</DIV><p>Message Edited by RyFord00 on <span class=date_text>10-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:25 AM</span>

[djhbeek]

<span><blockquote><hr>RyFord00 wrote:<div></div> <div>I do agree that fightning white-yellow con mobs is almost too easy, and because of this my grind group would only fight orange con mobs...  And yes; they resist a lot, they have more hp etc, but they are easily "grindable" and a far better challenge.  </div> <div> </div> <div>What I am saying is, if you can't handle the difficulty of higher resists, hp, attack of a higher con mob.. stay within your level range.  The OP is implying that orange con mobs are <u>too</u> challenging. Which imo is not the case at all.</div><p>Message Edited by RyFord00 on <span class="date_text">10-05-2005</span> <span class="time_text">09:25 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>too challenging ... no ... challenging in the wrong ways ... yes ... i'm glad you 'illiterated' on my 'whining', tho ... suggest a tuning change on these boards and people have to go mouth off about how uber they are ... no wonder i hate the pally forums ...</span><div></div>

[sliderhouserules]

<span><blockquote><hr>RyFord00 wrote:<div><em>"Ry ... no one at SOE said orange mobs are "unkillable", yet you seem to have the opinion that i shouldn't even being attacking them ... whatever ... if you find the existing white/yellows challenging, have fun killing them ..."</em></div> <div> </div> <div>Your right, no one said that.  Stay on subject... My remark is intended for your whining about certain level mobs resisting your taunts/spells.  So again I will illiterate; if you do not want your taunts/spells resisted at a high rate, fight mobs around YOUR level...</div><hr></blockquote></span>Half of the subject is that this mechanic affects groups with a level split where the tank is lower level in that split. He's not talking about soloing. When you're in a group you have to find mobs that are a challenging difficulty *and* level for your group's aggregate ability/level. This means a lot of the time you will be fighting mobs that are orange (or even *gasp* red) to at least one member of your group.

[djhbeek]

<span><blockquote><hr>sliderhouserules wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>RyFord00 wrote:<div><em>"Ry ... no one at SOE said orange mobs are "unkillable", yet you seem to have the opinion that i shouldn't even being attacking them ... whatever ... if you find the existing white/yellows challenging, have fun killing them ..."</em></div> <div> </div> <div>Your right, no one said that.  Stay on subject... My remark is intended for your whining about certain level mobs resisting your taunts/spells.  So again I will illiterate; if you do not want your taunts/spells resisted at a high rate, fight mobs around YOUR level...</div><hr></blockquote></span>Half of the subject is that this mechanic affects groups with a level split where the tank is lower level in that split. He's not talking about soloing. When you're in a group you have to find mobs that are a challenging difficulty *and* level for your group's aggregate ability/level. This means a lot of the time you will be fighting mobs that are orange (or even *gasp* red) to at least one member of your group.<hr></blockquote>exactly ... higher level groupmates can debuff a mob so lower level dps can hit them, higher level healers can heal/buff to compensate for a low level tank getting hit harder, if dps is lower level, it just means you kill slower.  if the tank is the lowest level in the group, there's not much you can do to compensate (other than have the healers/dps tank periodically <span>:smileyhappy:</span>). i have a feeling the resist rate takes into account what the avg amount a mob might be debuffed for, but as i say, since there's no debuff i know of that works for taunts because it's not damage, it ends up being kinda high for orange mobs.</span><div></div>

[Kemm]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> djhbeek wrote:<BR>since healers don't get resisted healing me, this effectively means a 57 tank can group with a 52 healer, but not vice versa ...<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>actually both fizzle rate and interupt are tied to encounter difficulty.  So when that 52 healer fizzles your heal 5 times in a row... that means he's in too hard an encounter too.<BR></P>

[djhbeek]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kemmyn wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> djhbeek wrote:since healers don't get resisted healing me, this effectively means a 57 tank can group with a 52 healer, but not vice versa ... <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>actually both fizzle rate and interupt are tied to encounter difficulty.  So when that 52 healer fizzles your heal 5 times in a row... that means he's in too hard an encounter too.</p><hr></blockquote>are you sure about that?  how would that work with multiple encounters etc?  i mean if your healing a tank thats getting hit by a lv 50 solo mob and a lv 60 heroic, which encounter is used to determine fizzle rate?  interupt rate i can believe, cause thats based on the mob that hit the caster, and ONLY IF the caster is getting hit ... but i have a hard time believing the same is true of fizzles ...</span><div></div>

[RyFord00]

<DIV>None of these "splitting hair" arguements changes the fact that I think there is nothing wrong with how resists etc (difficulty) of the mob works in combat.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>"too challenging ... no ...<BR>challenging in the wrong ways ... yes ..."</EM>  <BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>LOL, this is concrete proof that you have simply not spent enough time relearning the new combat system.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by RyFord00 on <SPAN class=date_text>10-05-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:14 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by RyFord00 on <span class=date_text>10-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:15 PM</span>

[djhbeek]

IN YOUR OPINION there is nothing wrong.  You simply have not spent enough time learning how to have an intelligent discussion rather than tossing insults in every post.  I'd love to see ONE PIECE of evidence on how this works well for a low level tank in a higher level group, but that will probably never happen. <div></div>