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Platfing
02-01-2005, 11:37 PM
<DIV>I don't quite understand this new AC value.  Does it only include raw AC on gear + AGI, or is there some other stat that I am missing?  For reference, I am level 24 and had approximately 1300'ish AC prior to patch.  Now I have 2641.  Is the entire (2641 MINUS 1300'ish) value dictated by my AGI?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, and kind of off-topic, but what exactly does STR do for a paladin other than make you hit harder?  Anybody know?  And WIS is my power pool - is that correct?  EQ-2 is so different compared to EQ-1 and I try to take nothing for granted with these stats, but I hear so many false rumors about what some of the stats really do.  I want to get this stuff straight!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fenra Fairheart (Butcherblock)  </DIV>

Lemli Wak
02-01-2005, 11:47 PM
<DIV>Wow - quite a jump in AC. Unfortunately, I can't answer your questions. But I'm wondering now what kind of reference point we will have to judge our AC against others. It sounds like it effectively doubled your total, but are you twice as tough now or will damage stats also increase? Hmmm....food for thought. </DIV>

Platfing
02-02-2005, 12:00 AM
<DIV>Not twice as tough.  It's actually reflecting a value that is supposed to take into account all factors now - but what are all the factors I wonder.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh - and this was pretty entertaining - I saw a post on the Guardian forum where their ACs values in general are really low compared to monks.  Does this mean a monk is a better tank than a guardian?  Bah - this isn't making sense at all now!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fenra Fairheart (Butcherblock)</DIV>

Coyt
02-02-2005, 02:26 AM
<DIV> <DIV>MG wrote</DIV> <DIV>We wanted to make players aware of an upcoming change to the way AC values are displayed that will be going to the Test server this week.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me preface this by saying that the only thing that's going to change is the number you see. No behind-the-scenes mechanics or defensive formulas are being modified as part of this change. This is a visual change only.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Currently the AC number that you see on your character profile is based on the armor class of your gear, your stats, your shield, and your Defense skill. While valuable information, it doesn't present the whole picture of a given character's overall defensive capabilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Under the new AC value, we take into account all the factors above, plus the effects of Parry and Deflection. In addition, this new number will more accurately reflect the benefit you receive from increasing skills like Agility. The higher your AC value, the less damage you will generally take over time as compared to someone with a lower AC value.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The new displayed value is much more granular, allowing you to more accurately judge the effectiveness of the choices you can make to enhance your character's defensive capabilities. You can compare the benefits of upgrading your armor, for example, or get a better idea of what certain buffs will do for you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In order to present this level of accuracy, we'll be using a larger scale of numbers to show your AC value. Instead of values in the hundreds, your AC value will be shown in the thousands. This may seem like a big change, but remember that the only difference is how the resulting number is calculated, not the factors that actually determine how well you defend yourself. Mitigation and avoidance formulas are not being altered in this change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No doubt this change will inspire discussion about the defensive capabilities of the fighter classes, since brawlers have to this point displayed lower AC numbers than other types of fighters. This has been due to the fact that, as described above, the current system doesn't take into account the Deflection skill, which is a huge factor in the brawler classes' tanking ability. After this change, the defensive capabilities of bruisers and monks will be much more visible to players who compare AC values.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We wanted to inform players of this upcoming change since it presents a drastic departure in terms of numerical value, and wanted to make clear that the underlying mechanics that determine your chances of defending against attacks will not change as a result of the new number.</DIV> <P>===========================<BR>Moorgard<BR>EverQuest II Community Guy</P> <P> </P></DIV>

Ventureinoz
02-02-2005, 07:56 AM
<DIV>Just a tip for paladins out there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wisdom only affects a percentage of your power pool.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I did many tests, swapping between items with STR and items with WIS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The STR items ALWAYS give a larger increase in power than the WIS items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yes I did take into account the +power difference on the items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In short, always look for high STR items over High WIS items, consider WIS on items a mere bonus. </DIV>

Matheos
02-02-2005, 08:47 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Platfinger wrote:<BR> <DIV>Not twice as tough.  It's actually reflecting a value that is supposed to take into account all factors now - but what are all the factors I wonder.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh - and this was pretty entertaining - I saw a post on the Guardian forum where their ACs values in general are really low compared to monks.  Does this mean a monk is a better tank than a guardian?  Bah - this isn't making sense at all now!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fenra Fairheart (Butcherblock)</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Yes and no is the answer. Yes Monks do have a much higher AC number now which incorporates all the agility bonuses and Dodge and parry skills and just as before the update Monks can make perfectly good tanks. The advantage that Guardians (and Pallys) have it the damage mitigation you get from armour that the monks don't get. You might not hit a Monk as often but when you do it will hurt a long more.  You pays your money and you takes your choice!

Telnu
02-02-2005, 10:02 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Platfinger wrote:<BR> <DIV>Not twice as tough.  It's actually reflecting a value that is supposed to take into account all factors now - but what are all the factors I wonder.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh - and this was pretty entertaining - I saw a post on the Guardian forum where their ACs values in general are really low compared to monks.  Does this mean a monk is a better tank than a guardian?  Bah - this isn't making sense at all now!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fenra Fairheart (Butcherblock)</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>No one's AC has actually changed, they are just now calculating your "effective armor class" this takes in account not just the AC you get from armor (this is your damage mitigation numbers) but also your block % on your shield, evade % from agility, as well as weapon parrying, riposte etc. etc. etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's an "effective" armor rating so it factors in mitigation AND avoidance.  Your actual ability to tank is completely unchanged by this number, it's just a way to compare apples-to-apples (if I can plagiarize someone else's cliche) when considering who to have tank (ie. Brawler, Fighter, Crusader etc.)</DIV>

Alluin
02-03-2005, 12:06 AM
Yep all very good, once again I applaud the Paladin community for being sensible people <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Indeed armour hasn't changed and nor has tanking ability.Of course Guardians will have less AC and higher mitigation, just like before. Seems to be the community forgets that despite this change there is 'still' more to tanking than numbers (as shown by the pally nay-sayers and the anti-groupers).Despite the new ac values I would still pick a brawler to be the MT over myself if our only healer was a shaman. Of course the same is true, given a monk of equal level I'd give him the ST crown to wear if we were taking very hard hitters and had a cleric on the team.Only thing that might present a problem to us Paladins is the fact that we will now definitely have the lowest ac of all. Before you could always compare armour values and hp values to to decide on the MT when it came down to choosing MT (brawlers aside). Now of course we will always have the lowest ac, since we have no tower shields, and not great avoidance. Just all of you remember to take into account the fact we can heal when tanking <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Otherwise we'll quickly get into the Paladins can't take argument again and we all know thats not true <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Nothings changed, but peoples perceptions will undoubtedly

anterys
02-03-2005, 01:54 AM
<DIV>I just perused the Monk boards and their aura of superiority is glowing pretty bright now.  They are all happy that their AC values are up and they'll now be getting the respect that they've so desparately deserved.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Very good point Alluin.  We all need to put less importance on numbers and more on skill.</DIV>

ChunTheUnavoidab
02-03-2005, 02:12 AM
The new value essentially takes everything into account which factors into "not getting hit"It does not count at ALL things which effect "taking less damage from being hit"Heavy armor in particular contributes greatly to damage mitigation. This all makes sense, as heavier armor tends to slow you down, making it more difficult to dodge and deflect blows, but generally absorbing and distributing damage instead.Strength and Wisdom both contribute to your power pool. I don't have the exact formula on hand, but I believe strength is more important than wisdom, but not hugely so.Strength should also affect how often you hit and how hard you hit. Wisdom helps you to resist magical (non-physical) damage.<p>Message Edited by ChunTheUnavoidable on <span class=date_text>02-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:14 PM</span>

luwkw
02-03-2005, 03:34 AM
Monks had way better AC in EQ 1 also (up until GoD era), didn't mean they were great tanks. Offtanking trash mobs sure they worked, but in relation to our double arrow mobs I think they're kinda sux.

Cyngii
02-03-2005, 07:01 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> anterys wrote:<BR> <DIV>I just perused the Monk boards and their aura of superiority is glowing pretty bright now.  They are all happy that their AC values are up and they'll now be getting the respect that they've so desparately deserved.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Very good point Alluin.  We all need to put less importance on numbers and more on skill.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Yes i am a monk, but am by no means biased (just bored at work and reading through all the fighter boards... the rest is hardly worth reading).  They finally changed what was a relatively worthless stat (how AC had been displayed) since there was no way of comparing tanks of different classes.  Now that they are providing a stat than can be used in comparing tanking effectivenss and groups will have a better way of deciding who should be tanking, and this just doesn't hold for monks/bruisers vs. the plate tanks.  I've been in groups where guardians 2 levels lower than a pally were chosen to be main tank.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Obviously skill is involved, but so are numbers and so is gear.  I would say one of the biggest things the new stat shows is  the downside of wearing old gear and benefits of wearing gear with room to grow into.  You can take 2 tanks of the same class and level and see a difference in AC of over 5% which is interesting.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Cyngii on <span class=date_text>02-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:05 PM</span>