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Jam
01-07-2005, 04:54 AM
<DIV>Level 27 Paladin, I have been using shout at app3 up until now (been unable to find an adept version on faydark and the paladin upgrades from shout do not seem to work as well for me), simple question is this better than shout app3? </DIV>

Bladezil
01-07-2005, 09:38 AM
<DIV>So far Zarn's Arrogant Challenge isn't on the same recast timer as Shout (or the upgrades) - Unless they changed it on me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: Getting reports that it IS on the same timer.. wasn't when I first tested it when servers first came up.. logging in to retest it.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Bladezilla on <span class=date_text>01-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:51 PM</span>

ripthisjoi
01-07-2005, 08:33 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bladezilla wrote:<BR> <DIV>So far Zarn's Arrogant Challenge isn't on the same recast timer as Shout (or the upgrades) - Unless they changed it on me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: Getting reports that it IS on the same timer.. wasn't when I first tested it when servers first came up.. logging in to retest it.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Bladezilla on <SPAN class=date_text>01-06-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:51 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> It is on the same timer as Blinding Faith

Anzak
01-07-2005, 08:56 PM
I was very dissappointed with this. When I logged in I didn't know that the training options are tied to your other skills. So when I saw this I was very excited because AE taunting is the biggest weakness I have as a tank. I work with a Mystic as my main healer and her wards tend to pull a lot of agro and the amount of healing she has to do at the front load makes it almost impossible to hold agro without changing targets every time the single target taunt pops until I can get a good agro amount set on all mobs. So to have a second AE taunt that I could hit right after the first would have been great, sadly it was not meant to be.Moving on from this I have a quick question on agro control on groups.I'm currently 24 Pally (duo with a 26 Mystic most of the time)Inflame Adept I - If the first hit does not pull agro the second willI took Chesgards DD which the extra hate is nice but single target agro is never a problemI use Blinding Light because Smite Prayer Seems to be bugged as when you cast it the Mystic Debuffs get dispelledSo here is my normal pull set up.Divine InterventionWait for initial WardPull with DD (Chesgards now)Hit Blinding Light once all Mobs are back at groupFighting Chance - Faithful Swing - Inflame (Use this even if the HO chain is broken)Charge - Rightous Blow - unyeilding advanceNow there are a few options I take here depending on how things are goingIf I'm taking heavy damage quicklyDemo of Faith - Blessed AidIf someone is pulling Agro from secondary targetsDivine Wrath - Cry of Conviction (If Safe) - Blinding LightAt this point if people are still pulling agro I try to hit I'll Hit Demo of Faith (if not used already) and Blessed Aid just to build agro more than anything elseThe problem is at this point all my abilities that will get AE agro are down so if people are still pulling agro I have to start changing targets and using Inflame once or twice. There are times such as when fighting Giants where I can't change angles to get a good view of the fight and changing targets is a real pain. What do others do in this place?

Bladezil
01-07-2005, 09:16 PM
<DIV>Yeah it is on the same time. Verrry innnteresting.</DIV>

Jam
01-07-2005, 11:28 PM
<DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff>Hi Anzak</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff>I am in a very similar situation as you, I have duoed more or less the whole way to level 27 with my friend a 27 warden.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I have very similar problems when taking on groups of 3+ at a time.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I find the druid regen spells generate and insane amount of agro probably a lot like a mystics ward spells. Then if say I loose agro on 2 out of 3 in the encounter, then my friend will be chain casting regens/heals on himself to keep himself alive at which point agro goes through the roof!</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff>My usual pulling tequnique after casting the short duration buffs we get is:</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff>Pull with Chesgards </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff>Then cast Zarns as soon as possible</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff>Then Ward generating group agro</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff>Then I usually start an HO, ending in inflame ( hopefully a group dd HO)</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff>Then continue with wards/ae dd if safe/group taunt every 30secs and as many HO’s as I can</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff>About 50% of the time when fighting groups of 3+ about 1min into the fight I will loose agro, to some, if not all mobs except the one I’m targeting. There seems to be no defining point when this happens I guess the regen spells finally take over all my agro generation and <SPAN> </SPAN>this then results in the method you described of targeting each one individually and often taking 3- 4 taunts and stuns to get agro back again for each mob! </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff>I would also love to know what im doing wrong I have tried quite a few methods now and its getting annoying.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff>On a side note about agro I noticed an interesting thing:</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff>Before any encounter my friend casts 2 short duration buffs on me. One is a dam shield and ones a stat increaser I forget the names. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff>Anyway if I pull before he has finished one of these, <SPAN> </SPAN>then he gets agro straight away – fair enough buffs generate agro don’t they…</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff>However the amount of agro that seems come from this small buff is just stupid, it often takes maybe 3 inflames and stuns to get agro back. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ccffff>Now surely this small buff should not be better for agro control that casting 3 adept 1 inflames which is currently my best taunt????</FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>

SpoveE
01-07-2005, 11:32 PM
<DIV>*double post*</DIV><p>Message Edited by SpoveEQ2 on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:39 PM</span>

SpoveE
01-07-2005, 11:32 PM
<DIV>*double post*</DIV><p>Message Edited by SpoveEQ2 on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:39 PM</span>

SpoveE
01-07-2005, 11:38 PM
<DIV>I am a 27 paly and seldom have problems holding agro. Sometimes a zerker can take it from me, but putting Adept 1 Redemption on him usually takes care of that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is my approach:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Divine Inspiration (Adept 1)</DIV> <DIV>- Blessing of the Pentinent (App 3)</DIV> <DIV>- Wait for healers to hit me with wards or reactives</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Single MOB</DIV> <DIV>   - Pull with ChessGuards</DIV> <DIV>   - Inflame (Adept 1)</DIV> <DIV>   - Blinding Bash (App 3)</DIV> <DIV>   - Repeat Inflame until MOB is dead</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Muliple MOBS</DIV> <DIV>   - Pull with Blinding Light (App 3)</DIV> <DIV>   - Blinding Bash (App 3)</DIV> <DIV>   - Repeat Blinding Light until MOBS are dead</DIV> <DIV>   - Repeat Inflame on MOB I am attacking until it's dead</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it's a long battle I will repeat Divine Inspiration when it comes up. If we get any adds I switch to them and repeat the appropriate tactic depending on if single or multiple adds. The key in my mind is never stop taunting. Forget about healing yourself, it's not your job. I only ward myself if the healer is LOP or I get into the red.</DIV> <DIV>   </DIV>

Anzak
01-08-2005, 02:08 AM
Well I know from talking with my wife that holding group agro is not just a pally problem. She said I actually hold groups better than most do. I think I'll have to look into getting upgrades on my AE taunts and see how that works out.