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Griffon Lady
11-01-2017, 04:44 AM
I asked in chat on Beta if the ponies and goblins would get the new tier and Gninja said "doubtful" because the harvestables were worthless on live because of the ponies and goblins.<br />I really hope they change their minds!<br />I have barely enough time to keep some crafted stuff in my shops so I can buy furniture as is between IRL, weeklies, dailies, etc... to do the decorating I really enjoy. If I have to spend what little time I have harvesting, I don't see any point in continuing a subscription. It will be just a job I pay to do at that point. I won't be able to craft enough extra to sell on the broker, so paying a subscription would be pointless.<br /> <br />Any one else hoping they do give the ponies and goblins 101-110 harvestable ability?

Prissetta
11-01-2017, 04:46 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Griffon Lady"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Griffon Lady said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474250#post-6474250" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I asked in chat on Beta if the ponies and goblins would get the new tier and Gninja said "doubtful" because the harvestables were worthless on live because of the ponies and goblins.<br />I really hope they change their minds!<br />I have barely enough time to keep some crafted stuff in my shops so I can buy furniture as is between IRL, weeklies, dailies, etc... to do the decorating I really enjoy. If I have to spend what little time I have harvesting, I don't see any point in continuing a subscription. It will be just a job I pay to do at that point. I won't be able to craft enough extra to sell on the broker, so paying a subscription would be pointless.<br /> <br />Any one else hoping they do give the ponies and goblins 101-110 harvestable ability?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>/agree

Griffon Lady
11-01-2017, 04:50 AM
If the data is a problem due to backed up amounts of harvestables, maybe switch the little gnome in Thundering steppes to just accept hundreds of stacks of harvestables for individual house items that he normally sends us to harvest for instead? Just add a shop window of some sort? (But don't take the quests away. Removing stuff not only breaks immersion, but really puts a crimp in the day of nostalgic people.)<br /> <br />Personally though, I enjoy hunting down unsuspecting homes with depots to gift my excess harvestables into, but some kind of harvestable sink would be fun too, if done in a fun way.<br /> <br />We play for fun. We pay for fun we want to support. If it's work, we want to GET paid. =P<br /> <br /> <br />P.S. I spent the last 3 years getting my Bachelors, logging in when I don't have homework bogging me down, using my plat gained by crafting to buy house items that adventurers didn't want, repeating "SOME day I'm going to have spare time and decorate some houses! Some day!" ... so to find out my ponies and goblins and guild hall harvesters will be pointless... I don't even know how to word the way I feel right now.. I've been playing since 2004 and to be so sure I'm going to not be able to have fun wile playing vs. how sad it'll be to quit the game... but back to not having any point to playing since it'll just be harvest harvest harvest, boredom, boredom, boredom... and then back to papers/books/presentations and craming and reality... may as well find something fun in stead, but nothing's as fun as decorating for me personal... but can't decorate due to time constraints, which brings me back to depressed thoughts of just harvesting for the small amounts of time I have to play... and back to just wanting to give up on EQ2. >.< <br /> <br />There comes a point when the amount of time sinks and filler is out weighing the fun of a game.

Sejreia
11-01-2017, 04:52 AM
I'll just say, I think he (they) has a point. However, I do hope they can back this idea up with enough nodes and rare drops, though I see where our little familiar will have greater purpose now.<br /> <br />Add; Just personal feeling, I don't find harvesting work though, if I did, I suppose I would agree.

Scrappyz
11-01-2017, 04:53 AM
With that said.. Will the new tier be on Guild Harvesters, or are they going to use the same justification(if you want to call it that) to not putting them on the guild ones either?<br /> <br />If not, that would really be a bummer as I'm one of the main crafters in a couple guilds and mats go like candy when mass crafting things. Especially when it comes to new tiers <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />

Sejreia
11-01-2017, 05:00 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Scrappyz"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Scrappyz said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474255#post-6474255" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">With that said.. Will the new tier be on Guild Harvesters, or are they going to use the same justification(if you want to call it that) to not putting them on the guild ones either?<br /> <br /> <br /> <br />If not, that would really be a bummer as I'm one of the main crafters in a couple guilds and mats go like candy when mass crafting things. Especially when it comes to new tiers <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" /></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />I did this too, and on TLE. Talk about difficult. What I did was make sure if they wanted things made, they need to be out there harvesting too! You get tons more with people harvesting this way, trust me. That box will be bursting in no time.

Mermut
11-01-2017, 05:37 AM
If they're going to make ponies/goblins useless by not letting them get current materials, they need to drastically up the number of nodes in Planes of Magic. There are barely enough to keep 2 players busy.<br />It will also make it impossible for toons who are not max level adventure to craft as they will have zero access to materials.<br /> <br />It will also make equippable crafted items nearly useless. By the time people gather enough materials to be able to make a full set of even handcrafted gear, everybody will have better gear. If people put them on the broker, either they have to sell them for far less then the effort involved in being able to craft them justifies.. or far more then they're worth, given the stats they have.<br />Only classes that.<br /> <br />A single zone with very very sparse nodes as the ONLY way to get common materials would make harvesting a confrontation and contentious thing. It would be a huge blow to people who primary craft.

Griffon Lady
11-01-2017, 05:59 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Sejreia"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Sejreia said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474258#post-6474258" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I did this too, and on TLE. Talk about difficult. What I did was make sure if they wanted things made, they need to be out there harvesting too! You get tons more with people harvesting this way, trust me. That box will be bursting in no time.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I hope the whole harvesting cut off on the ponies/goblins isn't another attempt at forcing loners and small guilds into big guilds. Big guilds have their benefits, but every big guild I've been in has also had it's drama, bullies, and other uncomfortable/depressing aspects. I love having my own one person guild. I love being able to make things for people with my overabundance of harvestables. I love being able to move things around in the guild hall or completely redecorate and not worry if I just "ruined" someone's day. lol (yahhh... another of those bigger guild snaffus, and it wsn't even me that moved it!)

Yado
11-01-2017, 06:08 AM
This will slow everyone down <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />

Mermut
11-01-2017, 06:11 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Griffon Lady"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Griffon Lady said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474265#post-6474265" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I hope the whole harvesting cut off on the ponies/goblins isn't another attempt at forcing loners and small guilds into big guilds. Big guilds have their benefits, but every big guild I've been in has also had it's drama, bullies, and other uncomfortable/depressing aspects. I love having my own one person guild. I love being able to make things for people with my overabundance of harvestables. I love being able to move things around in the guild hall or completely redecorate and not worry if I just "ruined" someone's day. lol (yahhh... another of those bigger guild snaffus, and it wsn't even me that moved it!)</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Actually, big guilds are likely to have MORE problems with the loss of ponies/goblins, not less. At least that's what I noticed when I was in a big guild. Some people ONLY craft and don't harvest.. so those that harvest and craft either find that the mats they put in the depot are gone when they get around to crafting. I started hoarding the materials I harvested as a result. And this was long before personal depots, so it took lots of inventory.

knine
11-01-2017, 06:16 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Sejreia"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Sejreia said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474254#post-6474254" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I'll just say, I think he (they) has a point. However, I do hope they can back this idea up with enough nodes and rare drops, though I see where our little familiar will have greater purpose now.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br />Add; Just personal feeling, I don't find harvesting work though, if I did, I suppose I would agree.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />They aren't worthless lol. I've feed many toons and put many food/drinks on broker that people buy with their alts. This will only jack up the market and slow down the leveling..hmmmm wait.. nevermind I see where they are going with this.

Sejreia
11-01-2017, 06:22 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="knine"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">knine said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474269#post-6474269" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">They aren't worthless lol. I've feed many toons and put many food/drinks on broker that people buy with their alts. This will only jack up the market and slow down the leveling..hmmmm wait.. nevermind I see where they are going with this.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />/wink

EmJay
11-01-2017, 07:23 AM
We earned the ponies and the goblins. Now to make them useless in the new expansion is unfair. With the amount of mats you have to have for the new recipes, the ponies and goblins will be more needed than ever before.

Mermut
11-01-2017, 07:30 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="EmJay"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">EmJay said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474275#post-6474275" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">We earned the ponies and the goblins. Now to make them useless in the new expansion is unfair. With the amount of mats you have to have for the new recipes, the ponies and goblins will be more needed than ever before.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>This is a good point.<br />The density of harvesting nodes in Planes of Magic is very low. If they are going to make the ponies obsolete (and make a whole TS line obsolete that at the same time), the number of materials per combine should go down as well. Fighting over nodes is NOT fun. Having people who intentionally monopolize certain harvests so they can put the mats up at prices the average crafter can't afford is bad for crafting. The people who do that don't craft themselves... and they base their prices off the krono sale/slr market... is not the price range of most crafters.<br />I cannot see any aspect of this that is good for crafters.<br /> <br />For people who want to make a quick plat, yes, but not for crafters.

Gerak
11-01-2017, 03:56 PM
We are assuming that they care what is good for crafters.<br />I cannot remember anybody ( other than Domino) in SOE/DBG that has cared for crafters.

Jhen Ro
11-01-2017, 04:11 PM
Very surprised this is even in question... And disappointing. Turning the goblin into a harvesting buff - yeah, I get that...<br /> <br />But the upgraded pony - I don't understand why it wouldn't have the new harvests on it too.

Mermut
11-01-2017, 04:31 PM
If this is seriously being considered, I request/suggest that devs look at the node density in a zone like The Sundered Frontier. We'll need node density at least that high if the only method of gaining materials is through harvesting That zone has good density as well as a few places that have decent density that are harvestable by careful low level adventurers. Also,, in that expac there were TWO zones to harvest mats, not just one.<br /> <br />It is hard work to make a zone that has good harvest density and preserves the EQ2 tradition that low level adventures can be self-sufficient crafters.<br />Having the ponies (and goblins) behave as they have every expac since they were introduced is far less work.<br /> <br />The only way to get spellshard/foundation and rare food will still be 'manual' harvesting and that has always been the best way to get even 'regular' rares.

Bhayar
11-01-2017, 04:34 PM
Let me see if I grasp the logic here. "Harvestables are worthless on live because of pack ponies/goblins?" Obviously, unless I missed something, I don't recall harvestables (outside of one solitary plant nodule type) even put into what is currently OF. If we didn't have the ponies/goblin, there wouldn't be any damn harvestables available at all for crafters. Sure, we could go to back to ToT, but guess what, that option isn't going to work in the new zone, because oh yeah, OF doesn't have any harvestable nodes and frankly I'm doubtful they'll have enough in PoP without driving people crazy. What are you going to do for people who gave up the gobbie for a rare only plant? I'd like to see some more information on what's driving this situation to even come up for conversation. Outside of it requiring some actual planning and thought given to the trade crafting side, it sounds like a poorly thought through construct.

Herne
11-01-2017, 04:38 PM
<b>Seriously is this for real?</b><br /> <br />If so why don't you just remove our ponies and goblins. All you are doing is removing the hard work that Domino has done for the players over the years, its bad enough that we don't even have a tradeskill line to test, but this is unbelievable!<b></b>

Shmogre
11-01-2017, 04:49 PM
I sincerely hope the devs will reconsider and will choose to keep the pack pony current with PoP.<br /> <br />I can see what Gninja is saying, but all you have to do is talk to crafters (especially those in larger guilds or those who are the only tradeskillers for their group) to know that keeping harvests stocked is a thankless and annoying job. Even with the ponies, it was too easy to run low.<br /> <br />I understand the difficulty of continuing something that was maintained by a now-gone dev, but please listen to the long-time tradeskillers who are asking for this feature to be continued.

Mermut
11-01-2017, 04:54 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Shmogre"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Shmogre said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474363#post-6474363" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><snip>I understand the difficulty of continuing something that was maintained by a now-gone dev, but please listen to the long-time tradeskillers who are asking for this feature to be continued.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Actually, adding a tier to ponies/goblins shouldn't be much more work then adding them to the guild amenity gathers. There was never any required quests required for the pony/goblin to get the current tier of materials..

Chienne-Guk
11-01-2017, 05:48 PM
My suggestion would be for anyone who is in discord to tag Caith and request ponies, guild harvesters, goblins be upgraded to include the new tier. Submit feedback / bug in beta, etc. I believe that Caith is the one who is doing the most with tradeskills, so he'd be the most likely one to fulfill the request.

Mercychalice
11-01-2017, 05:52 PM
I urge the devs to reconsider the thought process leaning towards not upgrading them. while it did cut down on harvest time, they didn't bring back rares. what made lower tiers "worthless/useless" was salvaging, which was solved when TOT came out and salvaging granted infuser pieces instead of rares. Please, please, upgrade the ponies. I really don't care if I have to do another quest line to do it or not. Just, don't let them go by the wayside. They're extremely valuable to us tradeskillers.

Chienne-Guk
11-01-2017, 05:59 PM
If they would like to make harvests useful again, then I'd vote for bringing back the skill requirement. Not having to level your harvesting skill to get the pack ponies made it extraordinarily easy to do. I've done it both ways and I ended up with ponies, while my harvest skill was in the 200's instead of 400+ where it was required to be beforehand.

Shmogre
11-01-2017, 06:40 PM
Adding to my earlier post: The devs have done an incredible job in PoP mitigating the grinding and time sinks that were required by adventurers in KA. For PoP tradeskillers, however, there will now be a monotonous grind to level due to tradeskilling quests not being available until some time after the expansion launches.<br /> <br />An example of the materials required for my Sage for a single rush order writ (Crystal Blast and Feast), which is currently giving around 7% XP *with vitality*:<br /> <br /><div style="padding-left: 30px">240 storm stalk</div><div style="padding-left: 30px">30 gnarled entwood</div><div style="padding-left: 30px">30 golden ember</div><div style="padding-left: 30px">45 nightmare cichlid</div><div style="padding-left: 30px">45 rock fern</div><div style="padding-left: 30px">45 greatmole meat</div><div style="padding-left: 30px">300 Celestial Incense - total cost/writ = 9p (writ reward is only 1p10g, for a net plat loss per writ).</div> <br />Multiply that by 15 writs per level (with some variation in materials from the other two recipes that are part of the writs), and it's clear that the number of harvests (as well as the plat outlay) required to level is extremely high.<br /> <br />The ponies barely scratch the surface during the beginning days of an expansion; it isn't until later than they can even begin to become less vital. At the launch of PoP, the *only* way to level will be by crafting and using up materials; the immense amounts of harvesting that will be required by tradeskillers will be onerous.<br /> <br />Please reconsider the "doubtful" and make the pony available for PoP harvests when the expansion launches.

Alenna
11-01-2017, 07:07 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Shmogre"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Shmogre said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474408#post-6474408" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Adding to my earlier post: The devs have done an incredible job in PoP mitigating the grinding and time sinks that were required by adventurers in KA. For PoP tradeskillers, however, there will now be a monotonous grind to level due to tradeskilling quests not being available until some time after the expansion launches.<br /> <br /><b>An example of the materials required for my Sage for a single rush order writ (Crystal Blast and Feast), which is currently giving around 7% XP *with vitality*:</b><br /> <br /><div style="padding-left: 30px"><b>240 storm stalk</b></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><b>30 gnarled entwood</b></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><b>30 golden ember</b></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><b>45 nightmare cichlid</b></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><b>45 rock fern</b></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><b>45 greatmole meat</b></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><b>300 Celestial Incense - total cost/writ = 9p (writ reward is only 1p10g, for a net plat loss per writ).</b></div> <br />Multiply that by 15 writs per level (with some variation in materials from the other two recipes that are part of the writs), and it's clear that the number of harvests (as well as the plat outlay) required to level is extremely high.<br /> <br />The ponies barely scratch the surface during the beginning days of an expansion; it isn't until later than they can even begin to become less vital. At the launch of PoP, the *only* way to level will be by crafting and using up materials; the immense amounts of harvesting that will be required by tradeskillers will be onerous.<br /> <br />Please reconsider the "doubtful" and make the pony available for PoP harvests when the expansion launches.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>bold emphasis mine.<br />What in the heck are they thinking? after forcing adventures to craft for hte 2.0 they turn around and do this? this is making crafters relevant? Or are you now deciding to make someone like me an adventure/crafter choose between the 2? since the you will force me to harvest to do the writ grind having no questline to help level my crafting one or the other playstyle will suffer. this is Alt friendly? I think not.

Jhen Ro
11-01-2017, 07:09 PM
I have a feeling that is more in line with a beta wrinkle and less about shafting. Might be just sages, too, who knows. Definitely /bug or /feedback it.

Gninja
11-01-2017, 07:22 PM
Please do not take my answer as absolute or informed for that matter. Was just my opinion however, I don't work on tradeskills, was just trying to be helpful in a friendly conversation on discord.

Chienne-Guk
11-01-2017, 07:24 PM
Thanks Gninja! I know you have taken a lot of flack for something that is not even within your control. I do appreciate your patience with us crazy crafters. We (well I) tend to get a little overzealous with the things I like and want to keep. <img src="/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" />

Shmogre
11-01-2017, 07:25 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Gninja"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Gninja said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474433#post-6474433" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Please do not take my answer as absolute or informed for that matter. Was just my opinion however, I don't work on tradeskills, was just trying to be helpful in a friendly conversation on discord.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Thank you kindly for that, Gninja. Please know that our feedback was meant as just that, feedback from very invested people who are living and breathing this harvesting and crafting stuff <grin>. Hopefully it makes its way to where it needs to be and is considered along with everything else the team is having to juggle.

Shmogre
11-01-2017, 07:33 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Jhen Ro"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Jhen Ro said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474423#post-6474423" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I have a feeling that is more in line with a beta wrinkle and less about shafting. Might be just sages, too, who knows. Definitely /bug or /feedback it.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Yeah, nothing on beta regarding tradeskill is settled right now, so there is still a lot of time and room for things to shift and change. My post was more of an example of where it is now, to give non-crafters/testers an idea of what it is taking to level currently on beta. We are all holding out hope that crafting will be a bit less burdensome when PoP goes live; part of that is sharing our experience with things like harvesting, recipes, and so on.

Alenna
11-01-2017, 11:14 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Chienne-Guk"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Chienne-Guk said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474434#post-6474434" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Thanks Gninja! I know you have taken a lot of flack for something that is not even within your control. I do appreciate your patience with us crazy crafters. We (well I) tend to get a little overzealous with the things I like and want to keep. <img src="/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" /></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I"m afraid I do as well. so it isn't only you. lets hope they do fix the pony adn goblin soon. as well as guild harvesters

Senya
11-02-2017, 01:17 AM
I'm feeling a little neglected as a crafter right now. I know that there's supposed to be a sig line after launch. I know that carpenter recipes will make it in soon. BUT, with only one rush order to grind on beta for 10 levels, no sig line, and having not seen the carpenter items yet, the pack pony and/or goblin news really rubbed me the wrong way.<br /> <br />I really hope that someone is paying attention to the feedback and adds the new tier to the pony/goblin/guild harvesters. I don't mind having to quest for it, but I don't want my existing crafter perks rendered useless. Especially when I've not seen any new ones yet. <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />

Alenna
11-02-2017, 01:34 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Senya"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Senya said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474510#post-6474510" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I'm feeling a little neglected as a crafter right now. I know that there's supposed to be a sig line after launch. I know that carpenter recipes will make it in soon. BUT, with only one rush order to grind on beta for 10 levels, no sig line, and having not seen the carpenter items yet, the pack pony and/or goblin news really rubbed me the wrong way.<br /> <br />I really hope that someone is paying attention to the feedback and adds the new tier to the pony/goblin/guild harvesters. I don't mind having to quest for it, but I don't want my existing crafter perks rendered useless. Especially when I've not seen any new ones yet. <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" /></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I agree.

Andric
11-02-2017, 03:35 AM
a) must have quo and goblin as mercs<br />b) quo volunteers after some harvesting quests to escort the pony on trips to harvest for you<br />c) lose merc quo, keep gardening merc, pony+quo = upgraded harvesting<br /> <br />maybe even a choice if lose quo or goblin to 'guard' pony

Griffon Lady
11-02-2017, 03:55 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Andric"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Andric said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474533#post-6474533" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">a) must have quo and goblin as mercs<br />b) quo volunteers after some harvesting quests to escort the pony on trips to harvest for you<br />c) lose merc quo, keep gardening merc, pony+quo = upgraded harvesting<br /> <br />maybe even a choice if lose quo or goblin to 'guard' pony</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I love it! Qho owes us any way!

Prissetta
11-02-2017, 04:00 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Griffon Lady"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Griffon Lady said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474540#post-6474540" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I love it! Qho owes us any way!</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>/agree <img src="/images/smilies/cool.gif" alt="Cool" />

Jumjumbandito
11-02-2017, 11:55 AM
Look, can we get Caith some help here? No Sig Line, two classes broken, and now possibly no pony/goblin or Guild Hall crafters? I think DB needs to look at the allocation of resources and help this poor guy out.<br /> <br />I am on AB, and there are MAYBE 100 serious raiders, and the PoP has FORTY EIGHT RAID MOBS. Maybe we pull someone from writing strats to fix a few TS things? Its not like all 48 are going to be reached on day one, but the far larger population of crafters and decorators ARE going to be crafting and needing harvestables to level that day.

Fixmore
11-02-2017, 03:37 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Jumjumbandito"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Jumjumbandito said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6474604#post-6474604" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Look, can we get Caith some help here? No Sig Line, two classes broken, and now possibly no pony/goblin or Guild Hall crafters? I think DB needs to look at the allocation of resources and help this poor guy out.<br /> <br />I am on AB, and there are MAYBE 100 serious raiders, and the PoP has FORTY EIGHT RAID MOBS. Maybe we pull someone from writing strats to fix a few TS things? Its not like all 48 are going to be reached on day one, but the far larger population of crafters and decorators ARE going to be crafting and needing harvestables to level that day.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I said it before and I'll say it again. We crafters probably wont leave and go to another game so therefore there is little priority on tending to this. Adventure is what generates the money, not crafting. Crafters cant be taken seriously with the threat of going to another game cause none offers this to us. The person in charge of developing the tradeskill stuff left and 'if' anyone else was assigned this task they have failed in their responsibility. Face it folks, they have the barrel and we cant get them over it like the adventurers can.

Kittybock
11-02-2017, 03:57 PM
My 2c:<br /> <br />--> If at least the standard 100-110 mats are not included on Guild Harvesters and/ or pack ponies, etc, this will introduce copious amounts of Guild Drama.<br /> <br />I love to harvest, so do many in my guild...but there are also many that don't. <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" /> Those that love harvesting are happy to see real nodes again! That said, if there is no method to supplement the Guild Harvest Depots w/ ponies, Guild Harvesters, etc, heads will roll when everyone starts using up Guild supplies, leveling up and filling depots with new consumables.<br /><ul><li>Will there be an achievement added for "Finger Pointing?" <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" /></li></ul>I truly hope they rethink this option.

Gerak
11-02-2017, 09:23 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I said it before and I'll say it again. We crafters probably wont leave and go to another game so therefore there is little priority on tending to this. Adventure is what generates the money, not crafting. Crafters cant be taken seriously with the threat of going to another game cause none offers this to us. The person in charge of developing the tradeskill stuff left and 'if' anyone else was assigned this task they have failed in their responsibility. Face it folks, they have the barrel and we cant get them over it like the adventurers can.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>We may not leave like the adventurers would, but we can and probably will go F2P which is worse for them because we generate no income but they need resources to support us.

Arieva
11-02-2017, 10:48 PM
+1 to the request that goblins and ponies remain relevant for PoP harvests. I never got rid of my goblin through the new questline and for good reason. It is terribly handy and id like to see it continue to be so. I for one would like a definitive answer one way or another before launch so that I can do the questline if they are going to make my gobbie useless <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />

Edelphia
11-03-2017, 08:46 AM
Low level crafters aren't going to survive harvesting in POP. Over half my 23 crafters are under level 60. They get one shotted in OF, how are they going to survive the mad scramble for the few harvest nodes in PoP? PLEASE don't take our pack ponies away, even if they only bring back common harvests! I have enough that can go out and farm for whatever rares I need, but the commons for writs and general crafting are my concern here. And the guild harvesters, My guild has a lot of crafters that rely on the harvesters for materials. I would say if this is removed, my guild will end up dying and I will go F2P. Most of my in game time is spent crafting and decorating now days. I don't have to be a member for just that anymore if the crafting line gets neglected like this. So far, as a crafter, I'm very disappointed with PoP. I hope my opinion gets changed, for I have made many good friends here and many of them would leave if crafters aren't at least given a little love.

Whilhelmina
11-07-2017, 12:01 AM
I second everything said above and add my voice to all those asking for the ponies/goblins/guild harvesters to keep delivering common mats for us, crafters. I'm not fond of the idea of having to compete with truckloads of other crafters and adventurers (and mobs) for the couple of nodes spawning around PoP. The first thing I did when zoning in beta was to go out explore the zone and harvest. There's not enough material around to make this enjoyable when PoP hits live.

Lateana
11-07-2017, 05:45 PM
Add my name to the list of unhappy harvesters/crafters.

Caith
11-08-2017, 12:33 AM
The goblin will not be getting any more updates.<br />The Kunark Ascending houseplant will be updated to offer a reward from the new tier of harvests.<br />The Artisan's Pack Pony will not be updated until the crafting timeline goes in.<br />We do not have any plans to update the guild harvesters until later in the expansion cycle.<br /> <br />For the most part, we want players out and experiencing the content in the expansion zones, not cycling through a dozen (or more) alts sending out NPC harvesters, at the very least at the start of the expansion cycle. While harvesting is more difficult at lower level, and should be, there should be plenty of spots where you can avoid the NPC's to harvest. The increase in harvest node spawn-rate should also help with that.

Scrappyz
11-08-2017, 12:41 AM
...............

Scrappyz
11-08-2017, 12:44 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Scrappyz"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Scrappyz said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476023#post-6476023" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">...............</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />This is me not saying what I really want to say so I don't get banned.. but let it be known... I am NOT happy.. <img src="/images/smilies/mad.gif" alt="Mad" />

Herne
11-08-2017, 12:49 AM
Why bother at all with tradeskills?<br />This is not a proper expansion at all, gone are the days of when we got quality expansions such as "Echoes of Faydwer".<br />I am not looking forward to running around a zone the same size as "The Peat Bog" fighting over nodes....

Mermut
11-08-2017, 12:53 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Caith"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Caith said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476021#post-6476021" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">The goblin will not be getting any more updates.<br />The Kunark Ascending houseplant will be updated to offer a reward from the new tier of harvests.<br />The Artisan's Pack Pony will not be updated until the crafting timeline goes in.<br />We do not have any plans to update the guild harvesters until later in the expansion cycle.<br /> <br />For the most part, we want players out and experiencing the content in the expansion zones, not cycling through a dozen (or more) alts sending out NPC harvesters, at the very least at the start of the expansion cycle. While harvesting is more difficult at lower level, and should be, there should be plenty of spots where you can avoid the NPC's to harvest. The increase in harvest node spawn-rate should also help with that.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Currently the node density is very low for the size of the zone. Increasing the spawn rate won't help much if the node density stays low. Especially if, as I unfortunately expect, some people who do NOT craft camp the nodes and put the mats up for very high prices to make quick plat.<br />This is especially true given the huge number of materials needed for combines and the large number of rush orders required to level.<br />This combined with the lack of a tradeskill timeline on release will have a severe and negative impact on crafting. <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" /><br />Only people with huge amounts of disposable plat and/or high level adventurers will have any chance, at all, of tradeskill for a significant time after release.

Gninja
11-08-2017, 12:59 AM
Guys instead of focusing on what was said and just guessing that it will be terrible, go onto beta do some harvesting and provide numbers, especially since a change was made to attempt to make the nodes more abundant. If the numbers do not match what we feel is appropriate we will adjust from there. After all that is what beta is for.

knine
11-08-2017, 01:02 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Caith"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Caith said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476021#post-6476021" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">The goblin will not be getting any more updates.<br /> <br />The Kunark Ascending houseplant will be updated to offer a reward from the new tier of harvests.<br /> <br />The Artisan's Pack Pony will not be updated until the crafting timeline goes in.<br /> <br />We do not have any plans to update the guild harvesters until later in the expansion cycle.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br />For the most part, we want players out and experiencing the content in the expansion zones, not cycling through a dozen (or more) alts sending out NPC harvesters, at the very least at the start of the expansion cycle. While harvesting is more difficult at lower level, and should be, there should be plenty of spots where you can avoid the NPC's to harvest. The increase in harvest node spawn-rate should also help with that.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />People will be getting out to experience the content. They have to do the faction quests and have to do the sig line to open up all the zones as is. Now on top of this we have to take the time to get harvesting in as well??? YOU made it to where everyone needed to be a 100 crafter last expac and some won't touch it this time around but all you've done now is to flood the market with people selling raws at a ridiculous price and people having to take time out of questing and running zones to harvest nodes. These items were placed in the game for a reason. The pack pony was something we had to put time into to help us out and you've taken that away until you can get the crafting timeline in, (who knows when that will be, because it's not coming together). YOU did a live streaming before/as beta went live and talked about the CE/PE edition pre-orders and what you could get, that doesn't work for everyone, and now things that are ALREADY in the game, you won't be updating because you want people to get out and explore????? really????? incase you weren't aware, unless you have a guild hall for each alt, you're only getting the guild harvesting from one person every 2 hours. I seriously doubt that everyone has done the pack pony on each and every alt they own, and if they did, good for them. This isn't to get people out to experience your overland, because that's only one small part of the expansion and only part where harvestable items are, this is simply another TIMEGATE....... Please stop beating around the bush and actually tell us what the real reasoning for things are.. People will appreciate that then.

knine
11-08-2017, 01:09 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Gninja"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Gninja said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476030#post-6476030" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Guys instead of focusing on what was said and just guessing that it will be terrible, go onto beta do some harvesting and provide numbers, especially since a change was made to attempt to make the nodes more abundant. If the numbers do not match what we feel is appropriate we will adjust from there. After all that is what beta is for.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />If i'm the only one harvesting then I can get around 500 of each node in around an hour. This is if I'm the only one harvesting. You're not going to be able to test this unless you tell the (currently 60 people in beta on the overland) to all go harvest at the same time, because everyone is currently testing the other content. Expac goes live its going to probably be hard to find nodes, although we won't know until live.... and we have 3 instances of plane of magic open. Are the nodes going to be the same in each instance if more than one open up. Are rares available in the multiple instances or just the first instance?

Scrappyz
11-08-2017, 01:14 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Gninja"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Gninja said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476030#post-6476030" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Guys instead of focusing on what was said and just guessing that it will be terrible, go onto beta do some harvesting and provide numbers, especially since a change was made to attempt to make the nodes more abundant. If the numbers do not match what we feel is appropriate we will adjust from there. After all that is what beta is for.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I don't care about having to go out to harvest. I've spent HOURS out in ToT harvesting for food rares and spellshards, which neither the goblin or the pony provided. And by doing that I got commons, hundreds of them. <br /><br />My problem, is I can't even get started leveling my crafters for guild purposes. Most of the guild comes to me when they need things made as I have all crafters. That trend will probably continue this expac, however unless I spend 2, 3, 4 days JUST straight harvesting, I won't have enough to just straight grind writs because oh wait, we won't have a quest line to get levels which by the way we'd need new mats to complete it anyway, therefore leaving my guild mates high and dry. Oh by the way, I also have my own guild with just myself and a family member. So by not having our harvesters, now he's also being left high and dry unless he goes and spending days harvesting.<br /><br />This is definitely a slap in the face to crafters.<br /><br />#BringbackDomino

Mermut
11-08-2017, 01:23 AM
I request that something is put in place to watch for harvest bots when PoP goes live. Given the vast number of required materials and their likely scarcity, I, unfortunately, forsee the rising of the mostly extinct harvest bots.

Gninja
11-08-2017, 01:23 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="knine"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">knine said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476033#post-6476033" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">If i'm the only one harvesting then I can get around 500 of each node in around an hour. This is if I'm the only one harvesting. You're not going to be able to test this unless you tell the (currently 60 people in beta on the overland) to all go harvest at the same time, because everyone is currently testing the other content. Expac goes live its going to probably be hard to find nodes, although we won't know until live.... and we have 3 instances of plane of magic open. Are the nodes going to be the same in each instance if more than one open up. Are rares available in the multiple instances or just the first instance?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />Good questions, beta is the place for us to determine if the number needed to pop a second zone needs adjusted. Seriously... Get out there and give it a try and post your numbers I don't think its as bad as you might think it is.

Gninja
11-08-2017, 01:24 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Mermut"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Mermut said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476036#post-6476036" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I request that something is put in place to watch for harvest bots when PoP goes live. Given the vast number of required materials and their likely scarcity, I, unfortunately, forsee the rising of the mostly extinct harvest bots.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />As always if you see bots report and petition them and they will be dealt with. Especially directly after launch we will be keeping a very close eye on it.

knine
11-08-2017, 01:25 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Gninja"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Gninja said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476037#post-6476037" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Good questions, beta is the place for us to determine if the number needed to pop a second zone needs adjusted. Seriously... Get out there and give it a try and post your numbers I don't think its as bad as you might think it is.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />I just told you what I could get in an hour if it's only me harvesting lol.. no way to truly check that on beta unless you shut down everything but harvesting to get accurate rate. I have been harvesting as I've been going along with the questline, cool, but this seriously hurts those crafters that start leveling crafters first to make that armor for guildies, makes that new food, new arrows, bolts for crossbows etc...

Quillyne
11-08-2017, 01:27 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Caith"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Caith said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476021#post-6476021" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">For the most part, we want players out and experiencing the content in the expansion zones, not cycling through a dozen (or more) alts sending out NPC harvesters, at the very least at the start of the expansion cycle.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />What content? Crafters are getting some new recipes, a new writ to grind and new nodes.<br /> <br />Currently, the only reason for a crafter to go to the planes is the harvesting...is this what you mean? That you guys want crafters to see the new zone? Because there is nothing new to experience about farming. And given the large material requirements for the new recipes, the ponies and guild gatherers alone would not be enough to accommodate my guild's crafters...we'd be out in the Planes regardless. So, I don't really understand this.<br /> <br />Ah well, I appreciate the time taken to respond to this thread. Unfortunately, I see a number of the crafting-centered players in my guild holding off on PoP until the expac offers something more to crafters than an expensive writ and a pony nerf.<br /> <br />Hoping the "real" content comes sooner than later!

Gninja
11-08-2017, 01:29 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="knine"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">knine said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476039#post-6476039" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I just told you what I could get in an hour if it's only me harvesting lol.. no way to truly check that on beta unless you shut down everything but harvesting to get accurate rate. I have been harvesting as I've been going along with the questline, cool, but this seriously hurts those crafters that start leveling crafters first to make that armor for guildies, makes that new food, new arrows, bolts for crossbows etc...</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I was meaning for a bunch of people to get in the same zone and attempt to fight over nodes and see how bad it is not just one person. It is likely that you aren't able to outfit your entire guild with mastercrafted or even handcrafted on day 1. That also should not be the expectation.

knine
11-08-2017, 01:32 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Gninja"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Gninja said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476041#post-6476041" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I was meaning for a bunch of people to get in the same zone and attempt to fight over nodes and see how bad it is not just one person. It is likely that you aren't able to outfit your entire guild with mastercrafted or even handcrafted on day 1. That also should not be the expectation.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />I agree and most my guild is in T3 raid gear anyway so it's not horrible for them.. This is dealing with those not wearing that, those people who aren't level 100 adventures and only tradeskill because that's what they like to do. I hope their pockets are full of plats.

Gninja
11-08-2017, 01:41 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="knine"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">knine said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476042#post-6476042" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I agree and most my guild is in T3 raid gear anyway so it's not horrible for them.. This is dealing with those not wearing that, those people who aren't level 100 adventures and only tradeskill because that's what they like to do. I hope their pockets are full of plats.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />There is a box in Plane of Magic they can use to get expansion starter gear.

Mermut
11-08-2017, 01:44 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Gninja"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Gninja said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476043#post-6476043" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">There is a box in Plane of Magic they can use to get expansion starter gear.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>That only helps lvl 100 adventurers.

Mermut
11-08-2017, 01:48 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Gninja"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Gninja said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476041#post-6476041" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I was meaning for a bunch of people to get in the same zone and attempt to fight over nodes and see how bad it is not just one person. It is likely that you aren't able to outfit your entire guild with mastercrafted or even handcrafted on day 1. That also should not be the expectation.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>It feels like the idea seems to be to turn harvesting/crafting into a massive contested dungeon type event rather then the (mostly) cooperative and friendly event it has been it the past <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />

Scrappyz
11-08-2017, 01:50 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Gninja"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Gninja said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476041#post-6476041" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I was meaning for a bunch of people to get in the same zone and attempt to fight over nodes and see how bad it is not just one person. It is likely that you aren't able to outfit your entire guild with mastercrafted or even handcrafted on day 1. That also should not be the expectation.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I didn't expect to get everyone with master/handcrafted on day one however.. I did expect to be able to get my crafters <b>STARTED</b> with leveling so when the time does come that people ask me to craft things, or those that come back to game, I have my crafters ready. Now, in order to do that.. I have to spend days getting the mats that will be necessary to go up to 100 on 9 crafters, I have to keep my mats to myself so that I know I have enough mats to keep my leveling going(screwing my guildies over), oh and not to mention getting mats for my other guild as well..yeah.. good idea not to have Harvesters/Ponies at the beginning of an expansion..<br /> <br />Might as well have taken Crafting out of the game

Herne
11-08-2017, 01:52 AM
And not everyone is in a rush to make it to level 100.<br />Tradeskill players loved Domino because she made the tradeskill lines for all levels and not just for the maxed out players.

Vian
11-08-2017, 01:55 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Guys instead of focusing on what was said and just guessing that it will be terrible, go onto beta do some harvesting and provide numbers, especially since a change was made to attempt to make the nodes more abundant. If the numbers do not match what we feel is appropriate we will adjust from there. After all that is what beta is for.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Instead of having a beta to dismiss everything people are giving you feedback on, don't have a beta....<br /> <br /> <br />This almost feels as smart as making a new zone, where you can't play your character, with any of the work you have put into it. The loot never changes. You have to do it hundreds of times to be meaningful. O btw, you cant VC or communicate with your friends on that you play this game with.<br /> <br />Never mind you did that, its called PG.<br /> <br />Is the expectation that were all gonna go merrily harvesting around the planes as a guild?!? Man that sounds riveting!

Gninja
11-08-2017, 02:04 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Vian"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Vian said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476050#post-6476050" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Instead of having a beta to dismiss everything people are giving you feedback on, don't have a beta....<br /> <br />This almost feels as smart as making a new zone, where you can't play your character, with any of the work you have put into it. The loot never changes. You have to do it hundreds of times to be meaningful. O btw, you cant VC or communicate with your friends on that you play this game with.<br /> <br />Never mind you did that, its called PG.<br /> <br />Is the expectation that were all gonna go merrily harvesting around the planes as a guild?!? Man that sounds riveting!</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />Can we please at least attempt to be constructive?

Vian
11-08-2017, 02:10 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Can we please at least attempt to be constructive?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>My bad...<br /> <br />Emotions ya know. People put a lot of love and time into this hobby / game. This just feels really bad. Think people trying to convey that. Just want this to be as great as you do! Do appreciate all the hard work!<br /> <br />Reminds me of:<br /><iframe width="500" height="300" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-4EDhdAHrOg?wmode=opaque" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Jazzalyn
11-08-2017, 02:27 AM
I haven't compared the numbers myself as I haven't had a chance to get back into beta in the last week or so due to travelling for work, but I'm curious as to how the tradeskill gear matches up to what we're seeing in solos and duos? I worry that some tradeskill classes wont be able to get harvestables quickly enough to level fast enough for what they make to even be worthwhile in the new expansion i.e. before people have replaced that gear with better drops from solos/duos. Again, I don't have specific examples, so I'm asking crafters out there who have examined it to weigh in (I'm thinking specifically armorer, tailors, weaponsmiths). Thoughts?

Vian
11-08-2017, 02:32 AM
Took your advice. Went and harvested in Beta. Around the Pakiat Bluffs, for 20min the result was this:<br /> <br />80x golden embers<br />94x gnarled entwood<br />11x rock fern<br />40x storm stalk<br />20x greatmole meat<br />19x etherium<br /> <br />Not sure if this is enough for anything. Not a strong tradeskiller, in fact hate tradeskilling, but its been made necessary to adventure.<br /> <br />If this took 20 min, how many hours would it take to lvl to 110? Would an experienced tradeskiller be able to tell me?<br /> <br />Hope this is usefull.

knine
11-08-2017, 02:35 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Jazzalyn"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Jazzalyn said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476057#post-6476057" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I haven't compared the numbers myself as I haven't had a chance to get back into beta in the last week or so due to travelling for work, but I'm curious as to how the tradeskill gear matches up to what we're seeing in solos and duos? I worry that some tradeskill classes wont be able to get harvestables quickly enough to level fast enough for what they make to even be worthwhile in the new expansion i.e. before people have replaced that gear with better drops from solos/duos. Again, I don't have specific examples, so I'm asking crafters out there who have examined it to weigh in (I'm thinking specifically armorer, tailors, weaponsmiths). Thoughts?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>They won’t. They are leaving in the box of gear to start with, which is cool and then by the time you get through the first questline you are sitting around level 105-106. Those tradeskillers will be useless. Sages/provies/woodworkers/alchies. Those will remain useful.

knine
11-08-2017, 02:37 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Vian"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Vian said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476058#post-6476058" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Took your advice. Went and harvested in Beta. Around the Pakiat Bluffs, for 20min the result was this:<br /> <br />80x golden embers<br />94x gnarled entwood<br />11x rock fern<br />40x storm stalk<br />20x greatmole meat<br />19x etherium<br /> <br />Not sure if this is enough for anything. Not a strong tradeskiller, in fact hate tradeskilling, but its been made necessary to adventure.<br /> <br />If this took 20 min, how many hours would it take to lvl to 110? Would an experienced tradeskiller be able to tell me?<br /> <br />Hope this is usefull.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>You probably didn’t have anyone competing for nodes either. The stalks and meat you harvested will likely make you 10 drinks or food. Not sure what the rest will get you as all I have is a provie.

EmJay
11-08-2017, 02:48 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Scrappyz"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Scrappyz said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476023#post-6476023" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">...............</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>My sentiments exactly. <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />

Griffon Lady
11-08-2017, 03:09 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Caith"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Caith said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476021#post-6476021" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">The goblin will not be getting any more updates.<br />The Kunark Ascending houseplant will be updated to offer a reward from the new tier of harvests.<br />The Artisan's Pack Pony will not be updated until the crafting timeline goes in.<br />We do not have any plans to update the guild harvesters until later in the expansion cycle.<br /> <br />For the most part, we want players out and experiencing the content in the expansion zones, not cycling through a dozen (or more) alts sending out NPC harvesters, at the very least at the start of the expansion cycle. While harvesting is more difficult at lower level, and should be, there should be plenty of spots where you can avoid the NPC's to harvest. The increase in harvest node spawn-rate should also help with that.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Well thank you for making my decision for me. There is no point for me to log in if I can't decorate, and I can't decorate without harvestables. If I'm going to spend all my time harvesting, I still can't decorate. :<br />Lucky year 13, I guess. <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />

Griffon Lady
11-08-2017, 03:11 AM
You devs seriously need to rethink what people consider fun, and what they do not consider fun.

Griffon Lady
11-08-2017, 03:24 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Gninja"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Gninja said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476071#post-6476071" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Man, what did you guys do before guild harvesters and pack ponies?! <img src="/images/smilies/tongue.gif" alt="Tongue" /></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Got really, really bored harvesting more than having fun. I think that was why the ponies and goblins and guild hall amenities were introduced? So people could spend more time having fun/enjoy the game/get hooked and want to subscribe?<br /> <br />So what next? Bringing back long named camping with the potential place holder instead? Evertimesink?

Jhen Ro
11-08-2017, 03:29 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Caith"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Caith said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476021#post-6476021" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">The goblin will not be getting any more updates.<br />The Kunark Ascending houseplant will be updated to offer a reward from the new tier of harvests.<br />The Artisan's Pack Pony will not be updated until the crafting timeline goes in.<br />We do not have any plans to update the guild harvesters until later in the expansion cycle.<br /> <br />For the most part, we want players out and experiencing the content in the expansion zones, not cycling through a dozen (or more) alts sending out NPC harvesters, at the very least at the start of the expansion cycle. While harvesting is more difficult at lower level, and should be, there should be plenty of spots where you can avoid the NPC's to harvest. The increase in harvest node spawn-rate should also help with that.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /><ul><li>Goblin not getting updates: Weird. Most of mine are the buff version now anyway, but still, that's....weird? Not end of world though, I don't think... I did keep a couple as goblins to have extra harvesting for the new expac, so doh.</li><li>Houseplant: Surprising, honestly. Had already "made peace" with this plant being good for epic 2.0 upgrades going forward and that be it, so this is a plus.</li><li>Pony with the Timeline: This sounds fair to me.</li><li>Guild Harvesters not being updated right awa--</li></ul>Wait, what?<br />Genuine question, since I have not been around for a level cap increase in many many years... but when the level cap goes up, is this normal practice? Wait X weeks/months before they get the new stuff? Is that how it's always been?

Quillyne
11-08-2017, 03:37 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Gninja"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Gninja said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476078#post-6476078" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Touche!</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br /><3

Griffon Lady
11-08-2017, 03:46 AM
Wow... Starting to feel like general channel in here Gninja...

EmJay
11-08-2017, 04:42 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Caith"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Caith said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476021#post-6476021" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">The goblin will not be getting any more updates.<br />The Kunark Ascending houseplant will be updated to offer a reward from the new tier of harvests.<br />The Artisan's Pack Pony will not be updated until the crafting timeline goes in.<br /><span style="color: #ff6600">We do not have any plans to update the guild harvesters until later in the expansion cycle.</span><br /> <br />For the most part, we want players out and experiencing the content in the expansion zones, not cycling through a dozen (or more) alts sending out NPC harvesters, at the very least at the start of the expansion cycle. While harvesting is more difficult at lower level, and should be, there should be plenty of spots where you can avoid the NPC's to harvest. The increase in harvest node spawn-rate should also help with that.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Forgive me for being dense, but I've not ever heard anything referred to before as an expansion cycle. What does that mean exactly?

knine
11-08-2017, 04:53 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="EmJay"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">EmJay said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476088#post-6476088" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Forgive me for being dense, but I've not ever heard anything referred to before as an expansion cycle. What does that mean exactly?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div><br />It means halfway through the year they will look at it, so once most people have leveled and it’s not needed <img src="/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" />

EmJay
11-08-2017, 05:15 AM
I spent 1 hour tonight harvesting in PoM. I started out when there was 43 people in the zone. Didn't see anyone else harvesting when I happened to run into someone. Here's what I got.<br /> <br />Storm Stalk - 304 (comes from both the root nodes and the fungal growth nodes)<br />Plumwit hide - 65 plus 1 rare<br />Greatmole meat - 67<br />Etherium - 225 plus 4 rares<br />Rockfern - 92<br />Deadly Mushroom - 107<br />Golden Ember - 150 plus 2 rare<br />Gnarled Entwood - 255 plus 4 rares<br />Nightmare cicklids - 23. <br /> <br />I found two fishing nodes going from the south end of the river up to that light thing. Sorry, forgot what you called that section like a light tunnel, but it's not, going straight up from the water. Since I know my alchemist recipes use quite a bit of fish I went "fishing". Where's the fish?? With all that water surrounding all those little overland sections of PoM, I maybe found 3 more nodes. Perfect area to populate with fishing nodes like Cobalt Scar. Now, to be fair, when I was flying low over the water looking for nodes, I started a little south of Pakiat Buffs and flew counter-clockwise until I reached the north part of the map and then flew straight up to the starting island. So, I didn't make it all the way around because I just figured it was more of the same empty fishing holes. <br /> <br />On a different note, my personal opinion is that the harvesting nodes are still too sparse for my liking. I was one person harvesting and will not enjoy having to share nodes with too many others. And, please, make sure the nodes are renamed before launch.

Mermut
11-08-2017, 05:54 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Gninja"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Gninja said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476071#post-6476071" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Man, what did you guys do before guild harvesters and pack ponies?! <img src="/images/smilies/tongue.gif" alt="Tongue" /> Sorry, I'm just being silly at this point.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Before those, there were multiple zones for every tier and a much higher node density in those zones. And the number of materials required per combine were lower.<br />The increase in required materials was, at least partially, a reaction to having guild harvesters, ponies, and eventually goblins, in the game.<br />Additionally, it took fewer writ to level, partially because the combine actually gave a meaningful amount of xp toward leveling. On beta, combines are, literally, giving a base of 126 to 150 xp... when 174 million is needed for just lvl 101.<br /> <br />The amount of xp needed to lvl was increased without considering how it affects other things... at least that's what it looks like from the outside.

Mermut
11-08-2017, 07:32 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Jhen Ro"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Jhen Ro said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476074#post-6476074" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><ul><li>Goblin not getting updates: Weird. Most of mine are the buff version now anyway, but still, that's....weird? Not end of world though, I don't think... I did keep a couple as goblins to have extra harvesting for the new expac, so doh.</li><li>Houseplant: Surprising, honestly. Had already "made peace" with this plant being good for epic 2.0 upgrades going forward and that be it, so this is a plus.</li><li>Pony with the Timeline: This sounds fair to me.</li><li>Guild Harvesters not being updated right awa--</li></ul>Wait, what?<br />Genuine question, since I have not been around for a level cap increase in many many years... but when the level cap goes up, is this normal practice? Wait X weeks/months before they get the new stuff? Is that how it's always been?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>In the past guild harvests, ponies and goblins were automatically updated with the new tier when the expac went live.<br />Ponies got new functionality with new quests (the ability to bring back rares and harvest holiday mats in season) but new tiers were automatic.<br /> <br />I'm not sure why they want to make harvesting.. and by extension crafting, a contested/competitive activity this expac... especially when that also makes decorating a contested/competitive activity.. since it relies heavily on crafting.. but they have.

Earar
11-08-2017, 07:43 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="EmJay"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">EmJay said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476090#post-6476090" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I spent 1 hour tonight harvesting in PoM. I started out when there was 43 people in the zone. Didn't see anyone else harvesting when I happened to run into someone. Here's what I got.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>because now u can buy materials outside of nodes<br /> <br />and people don't activelly play in beta, though People will activelly harvest when the xpac is released !!

Mermut
11-08-2017, 09:29 AM
Celestial Foundation 1<br />cnidcara hide 1<br />deadly mushroom 45<br />etherium 31<br />gnarled entwood 47<br />golden ember 32<br />greatmole meat 48<br />matron's heart 1<br />nightmare cichlid 9<br />Planar Energy 2<br />plumewit hide 53<br />rock fern 42<br />rubicite ore 1<br />storm ent heartwood 1<br />storm stalk 113<br />strand of ether 3<br /> <br />122 Nodes, 1611 total materials, 10 rares in about 70 minutes<br /> <br />Harvesting stats: 7% rare harvest chance, 15% bountiful harvest, 550 harvesting skills<br /> <br />I haven't done any writs with the toon who did this harvesting (jeweler), but I plan on keeping track of harvesting time and only using mats this toon harvests for writs to give an rough idea of how much time it will take to level a crafter when PoP goes live<br /> <br />Note: this is harvesting w/o any competition.

Cheesenabber
11-08-2017, 09:44 AM
I don't suppose you could reconsider the guild harvesters? Or would it possible to have them bring back the new stuff only if the GL is above a certain (not too high!) lvl (let's say.. 101? 110? Something higher than a quick newsies turn-in anyway) or have a different set that would work for for the new stuff? Just floating ideas, since the guild harvesters really don't bring back a ton on their own, but I can see where if you multiplied them times the number of personal guilds it could be more than I'd even think of..

Whilhelmina
11-08-2017, 01:13 PM
quick reminder, don't now if it works or not, I'll try it later in the day, but there was a harvest parse for ACT here: <a href="http://advancedcombattracker.com/download.php" target="_blank" class="externalLink" rel="nofollow">http://advancedcombattracker.com/download.php</a>

EmJay
11-08-2017, 02:29 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Earar"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Earar said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476111#post-6476111" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">because now u can buy materials outside of nodes<br /> <br />and people don't activelly play in beta, though People will activelly harvest when the xpac is released !!</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Yes, Earar, I understand that. Being out harvesting last night opened up my eyes about a lot of things about the looks and feel of that zone. I did it just to be able to comment on the amount of nodes available which was information that was asked for.

Ocarinah
11-08-2017, 03:00 PM
What did I do before guild harvesters and pack pony/goblin? I would stay up all night harvesting for my hubby to level his crafters and would have to mail him the mats because I never had enough room in my bags. That was back when due to my disability I could only sleep 2 hours if I was lucky. I couldn't keep up even though I must have spent 8 hours or more a day, every day, harvesting. He would run out of mats before he would run out of vitality. I actually hate crafting. Watching 4 lines and clicking a few buttons over and over is not fun at all. There is no thrill of wondering if some uber loot will drop or seeing a really cool zone or a unique fight that must be tried a few times to figure out or getting to hang out with friends or family. Knowing I can make awesome house items is the only thing that gets me to craft nowadays. The only reason why I leveled crafters is because everyone always promised they would make me stuff, send them rares and mats to help them level and then never get anything from them. Now why do I keep leveling up crafters, for the harvesting pony and goblin. I need tons of mats for decorating and holiday events. I cannot harvest anymore cuz it hurts my hands/wrists too much. There is already too much trying to get enough etherwood for decorating projects since those mats are not available with any harvester.<br /> <br />Every expansion I get left behind adventure wise and pretty much have given up on most adventuring. There was lots of stress having people hounding me about my crafters getting to max and having all recipes. Doesn't matter if you can only get recipes in raid zones and I don't raid anymore. I was expected to have those recipes anyway with no help. The pressure was just too much and crafting switched so that raiders had to become crafters so I left the raiding guild I was helping. The number of writs we need to do to level is overwhelming to me. Now to find out I will have to harvest everything myself to get 9 crafters max level without a sig line I am beyond frustrated. November and December are crazy months with holiday season in/out of game, weather, etc. Not a good time to find out that cannot count on harvesters to bring mats to level up. Have been frustrated trying to find harvesting nodes. I am lucky that I am in a solo guild. Back when I was in a guild, I always somehow ended up with responsibility of keeping harvest depot full. I cannot imagine those that are expected to do so and level up all the crafters and keep up with the adventuring being too happy with this news. Not knowing when we can expect crafting things to be added to expansion is concerning to people (ugh soon<span style="font-size: 16px"><span style="font-family: 'Segoe UI'"><span style="color: #444444">™!!!</span></span></span>) .<br /> <br />Suggestions:<br /><ul><li>Get guild harvesters upgraded before expansion launch.</li><li><div align="left"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #200b01">Increase number harvesting nodes.</span></span></div></li><li>Give expected date to receive tradeskill timeline.</li><li>Give expected date to receive upgrade to harvesting pony.</li><li>Give expected date to receive upgrade to KA rare harvest plant.</li></ul>

Febrith
11-08-2017, 03:20 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ocarinah"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ocarinah said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476163#post-6476163" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">What did I do before guild harvesters and pack pony/goblin? I would stay up all night harvesting for my hubby to level his crafters and would have to mail him the mats because I never had enough room in my bags. That was back when due to my disability I could only sleep 2 hours if I was lucky. I couldn't keep up even though I must have spent 8 hours or more a day, every day, harvesting. He would run out of mats before he would run out of vitality. I actually hate crafting. Watching 4 lines and clicking a few buttons over and over is not fun at all. There is no thrill of wondering if some uber loot will drop or seeing a really cool zone or a unique fight that must be tried a few times to figure out or getting to hang out with friends or family. Knowing I can make awesome house items is the only thing that gets me to craft nowadays. The only reason why I leveled crafters is because everyone always promised they would make me stuff, send them rares and mats to help them level and then never get anything from them. Now why do I keep leveling up crafters, for the harvesting pony and goblin. I need tons of mats for decorating and holiday events. I cannot harvest anymore cuz it hurts my hands/wrists too much. There is already too much trying to get enough etherwood for decorating projects since those mats are not available with any harvester.<br /> <br />Every expansion I get left behind adventure wise and pretty much have given up on most adventuring. There was lots of stress having people hounding me about my crafters getting to max and having all recipes. Doesn't matter if you can only get recipes in raid zones and I don't raid anymore. I was expected to have those recipes anyway with no help. The pressure was just too much and crafting switched so that raiders had to become crafters so I left the raiding guild I was helping. The number of writs we need to do to level is overwhelming to me. Now to find out I will have to harvest everything myself to get 9 crafters max level without a sig line I am beyond frustrated. November and December are crazy months with holiday season in/out of game, weather, etc. Not a good time to find out that cannot count on harvesters to bring mats to level up. Have been frustrated trying to find harvesting nodes. I am lucky that I am in a solo guild. Back when I was in a guild, I always somehow ended up with responsibility of keeping harvest depot full. I cannot imagine those that are expected to do so and level up all the crafters and keep up with the adventuring being too happy with this news. Not knowing when we can expect crafting things to be added to expansion is concerning to people (ugh soon<span style="font-size: 16px"><span style="font-family: 'Segoe UI'"><span style="color: #444444">™!!!</span></span></span>) .<br /> <br />Suggestions:<br /><ul><li>Get guild harvesters upgraded before expansion launch.</li><li><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Increase number harvesting nodes.</span></li><li>Give expected date to receive tradeskill timeline.</li><li>Give expected date to receive upgrade to harvesting pony.</li><li>Give expected date to receive upgrade to KA rare harvest plant.</li></ul></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Absolutely agree with ALL that and those suggestions - for those of us that are pretty much exclusively TS'ers/Decorators this isn't even funny - I'm already P.O that there's no indication of when the Tradeskill timeline is going in - it makes me feel like my particular part of the EQ community is being highly undervalued.

Shmogre
11-08-2017, 03:56 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Gninja"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Gninja said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476071#post-6476071" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Man, what did you guys do before guild harvesters and pack ponies?! <img src="/images/smilies/tongue.gif" alt="Tongue" /> Sorry, I'm just being silly at this point.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Before PoP, we were also able to level through questing. A lot of the frustration is coming from the fact that for now, the only way for crafters to level (and to use the recipes at the different levels) is through doing writs. It's not making mastercrafted gear we are necessarily focused on, it's just doing the most basic thing in any game like this: earning XP.<br /> <br />Here are some sample numbers from my sage for a single rush order writ (Crystal Blast and Feast), which was giving around 7% XP *with vitality*:<br /> <br /><div style="padding-left: 30px"><i>240 storm stalk</i></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><i>30 gnarled entwood</i></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><i>30 golden ember</i></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><i>45 nightmare cichlid</i></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><i>45 rock fern</i></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><i>45 greatmole meat</i></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><i>300 Celestial Incense - total cost/writ = 9p (writ reward is only 1p10g, for a net plat loss per writ).*</i></div> <br />Multiply that by 15 writs per level (with some variation in materials from the other two recipes that are part of the writs), and that means for a single level *with vitality* (it's much worse without), sages currently burn through thousands of of materials, 22.5 stacks of fuel, and over 130 plat*. Now multiply those out by 10 levels, and you hopefully begin to see why we are intimidated by the number of materials being required.<br /> <br />We aren't just upset that we are losing access to some very useful tools. We are concerned about the sheer amount of time and mindless grinding it's going to take just to level, especially after such great strides have been made to make the game more accessible for adventuring compared to KA.<br /> <br />We know the amounts required and rewards for writs and still in flux, which is why we've been giving feedback in beta. With luck, these number won't be quite so overwhelming when PoP launches.<br /> <br /><i>(* EDIT: Excellent news from the beta update notes: "Writ coin rewards should now match the coin spent on the fuels involved in the writ.")</i>

Mermut
11-08-2017, 03:57 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Whilhelmina"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Whilhelmina said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476146#post-6476146" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">quick reminder, don't now if it works or not, I'll try it later in the day, but there was a harvest parse for ACT here: <a href="http://advancedcombattracker.com/download.php" target="_blank" class="externalLink" rel="nofollow">http://advancedcombattracker.com/download.php</a></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Yes, it works. That's where my numbers came from.

knine
11-08-2017, 05:15 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Shmogre"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Shmogre said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476172#post-6476172" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Before PoP, we were also able to level through questing. A lot of the frustration is coming from the fact that for now, the only way for crafters to level (and to use the recipes at the different levels) is through doing writs. It's not making mastercrafted gear we are necessarily focused on, it's just doing the most basic thing in any game like this: earning XP.<br /> <br />Here are some sample numbers from my sage for a single rush order writ (Crystal Blast and Feast), which was giving around 7% XP *with vitality*:<br /> <br /><div style="padding-left: 30px"><i>240 storm stalk</i></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><i>30 gnarled entwood</i></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><i>30 golden ember</i></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><i>45 nightmare cichlid</i></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><i>45 rock fern</i></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><i>45 greatmole meat</i></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><i>300 Celestial Incense - total cost/writ = 9p (writ reward is only 1p10g, for a net plat loss per writ).*</i></div> <br />Multiply that by 15 writs per level (with some variation in materials from the other two recipes that are part of the writs), and that means for a single level *with vitality* (it's much worse without), sages currently burn through thousands of of materials, 22.5 stacks of fuel, and over 130 plat*. Now multiply those out by 10 levels, and you hopefully begin to see why we are intimidated by the number of materials being required.<br /> <br />We aren't just upset that we are losing access to some very useful tools. We are concerned about the sheer amount of time and mindless grinding it's going to take just to level, especially after such great strides have been made to make the game more accessible for adventuring compared to KA.<br /> <br />We know the amounts required and rewards for writs and still in flux, which is why we've been giving feedback in beta. With luck, these number won't be quite so overwhelming when PoP launches.<br /> <br /><i>(* EDIT: Excellent news from the beta update notes: "Writ coin rewards should now match the coin spent on the fuels involved in the writ.")</i></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I haven’t checked my rush orders for provie but seems like just to make the items the numbers aren’t drastic, but you will still have to put in time harvesting and I’m already putting in time seeing the zones for faction questing and sig line quest. There was absolutely no need to not upgrade these unless....nvm.

Mermut
11-08-2017, 05:17 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="knine"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">knine said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476204#post-6476204" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I haven’t checked my rush orders for provie but seems like just to make the items the numbers aren’t drastic, but you will still have to put in time harvesting and I’m already putting in time seeing the zones for faction questing and sig line quest.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Scholar recipes are in an.. odd.. state right now. They're using way more materials and fuel then other combines.. and are using mostly food harvests to boot. How much or little they'll be 'fixed' to be more in line with other combines is anybody's guess at this point.<br />Hopefully the fuel amounts will either be brought in line with all other combines or rush orders will be set to correctly refund fuel costs.

Scrappyz
11-08-2017, 05:24 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="knine"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">knine said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476204#post-6476204" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">There was absolutely no need to not upgrade these unless....nvm.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Unless they want to drive crafters away from the game?<br /><br />Congrats, mission accomplished

Sudedor
11-08-2017, 06:32 PM
So, putting all of the data together from this thread . . .<br /> <br />In general terms, one writ requires an entire stack of "something" . . . whatever the primary ingredient might be for that class. This writ yields approximately 7% XP, if the crafter has vitality. This writ takes approximately 5 minutes to complete.<br /> <br />In one hour of uncontested harvesting, a player brings back 2 to 4 stacks of a given primary material, and likely enough of the secondary materials to fill out the remaining recipes, assuming the player harvests what is there and doesn't cherry pick nodes for valuable rares. Let's just say that an uncontested harvester is bringing back 3 stacks per hour.<br /> <br />What do we get from that data? Assuming nothing changes between now and launch . . . <br /> <br /> <br />1. A player must harvest for an hour to do about 15 minutes of crafting.<br /> <br />2. To gain one crafting level, with Vitality, a player would need to harvest for almost 5 hours.<br /> <br />3. With Vitality, a player will need to harvest approximately 47 hours uncontested to level from 100 to 110.<br /> <br /> <br />That seems like it's pretty excessive to me on the harvesting side, especially since the expectation of uncontested harvesting cannot be supported.

Alenna
11-08-2017, 07:12 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Sudedor"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Sudedor said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476228#post-6476228" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">So, putting all of the data together from this thread . . .<br /> <br />In general terms, one writ requires an entire stack of "something" . . . whatever the primary ingredient might be for that class. This writ yields approximately 7% XP, if the crafter has vitality. This writ takes approximately 5 minutes to complete.<br /> <br />In one hour of uncontested harvesting, a player brings back 2 to 4 stacks of a given primary material, and likely enough of the secondary materials to fill out the remaining recipes, assuming the player harvests what is there and doesn't cherry pick nodes for valuable rares. Let's just say that an uncontested harvester is bringing back 3 stacks per hour.<br /> <br />What do we get from that data? Assuming nothing changes between now and launch . . .<br /> <br /> <br />1. A player must harvest for an hour to do about 15 minutes of crafting.<br /> <br />2. To gain one crafting level, with Vitality, a player would need to harvest for almost 5 hours.<br /> <br />3. With Vitality, a player will need to harvest approximately 47 hours uncontested to level from 100 to 110.<br /> <br /> <br /><b>That seems like it's pretty excessive to me on the harvesting side, especially since the expectation of uncontested harvesting cannot be supported.</b></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>^this.

Jhen Ro
11-08-2017, 07:31 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Sudedor"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Sudedor said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476228#post-6476228" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">1. A player must harvest for an hour to do about 15 minutes of crafting.<br /> <br />2. To gain one crafting level, with Vitality, a player would need to harvest for almost 5 hours.<br /> <br /><b>3. With Vitality, a player will need to harvest approximately 47 hours uncontested to level from 100 to 110.</b><br /> <br /><b>That seems like it's pretty excessive to me on the harvesting side, especially since the expectation of uncontested harvesting cannot be supported</b>.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />A week and a half of uncontested harvesting to get only one of my crafters up to 110.... Doesn't count the time to do the actual crafting. <br /> <br />How fast will people be 110 adventure when expac drops? Since they have the quest xp boosts, of course it's faster - but did we go from time gating the adventure side to time gating the crafting side?

Sejreia
11-08-2017, 08:11 PM
<img src="https://i.imgur.com/XTIjYZm.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><img src="https://i.imgur.com/lBTOF2H.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /><div align="left"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #200b01">My stats before harvest grind. </span></span></div>Definitely loving the addition of nodes, though still needs more fishing I think. One hour and no competition harvesting at all; just finished. Started with zero mats in my bag. Level 100 with Mercenary. <br /> <br /><div align="left"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #200b01"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/WCG0Lou.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /></span></span></div>Capped Everything but fishing upon completion. Just noticed, also, I don't see the sparklies on the rare hide.

yerbo
11-08-2017, 08:44 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Gninja"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Gninja said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476037#post-6476037" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Good questions, beta is the place for us to determine if the number needed to pop a second zone needs adjusted. Seriously... Get out there and give it a try and post your numbers I don't think its as bad as you might think it is.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Here's my numbers....there aren't even enough nodes in beta to put a small dent in the amount of mats we need with few people harvesting. With LOTS of people harvesting it will become completely untenable. Frankly, since the ball has been dropped on the TS quest timeline, you should reconsider the position on guild harvesters and pack ponies. Because having no timeline AND no harvesters is going to create a situation where the zone will need to have nodes pretty much everywhere.

Kander
11-08-2017, 09:02 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Sudedor"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Sudedor said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476228#post-6476228" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">So, putting all of the data together from this thread . . .<br /> <br />In general terms, one writ requires an entire stack of "something" . . . whatever the primary ingredient might be for that class. This writ yields approximately 7% XP, if the crafter has vitality. This writ takes approximately 5 minutes to complete.<br /> <br />In one hour of uncontested harvesting, a player brings back 2 to 4 stacks of a given primary material, and likely enough of the secondary materials to fill out the remaining recipes, assuming the player harvests what is there and doesn't cherry pick nodes for valuable rares. Let's just say that an uncontested harvester is bringing back 3 stacks per hour.<br /> <br />What do we get from that data? Assuming nothing changes between now and launch . . .<br /> <br /> <br />1. A player must harvest for an hour to do about 15 minutes of crafting.<br /> <br />2. To gain one crafting level, with Vitality, a player would need to harvest for almost 5 hours.<br /> <br />3. With Vitality, a player will need to harvest approximately 47 hours uncontested to level from 100 to 110.<br /> <br /> <br />That seems like it's pretty excessive to me on the harvesting side, especially since the expectation of uncontested harvesting cannot be supported.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div><span style="color: #1f497d">These numbers are a bit off.</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d"></span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">A single rush order should require about 90 components combining primary and sub components. There are some recipes that are bugged that require more than that at the moment because the build components are off. This is another symptom of the issue that caused some recipes to use harvests for fuels, or incorrect primary components.</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d"></span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">For fun, I started a harvesting run at 11:04 am PDT, finished at 11:25 am PDT, and I did not use any harvesting gear at all, except the compact sumac harvesting kit which reduces harvest time. Which means that if you use any of the large amount of Trade Skill rewards that are available , you will get more. </span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d"></span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">There were two other people harvesting in the area at the time. Currently, we have doubled the amount of harvest nodes since Saturday and they are on Independent Spawn Camps. The way independent spawn camps work, they force a minimum number of nodes to be up at a time, which means the more harvesters in the zone at other locations the better it is to harvest, since more nodes will spawn in the area you are in.</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d"></span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">During this 21 minutes, I collected:</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">50 deadly mushrooms</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">310 etherium</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">357 gnarled entwood</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">143 golden ember</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">313 greatmole meat</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">238 plumwit hides</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">91 rock fern</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">481 storm stalks</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">2 cnidcara hides (rare)</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">1 darkstone (rare)</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">2 rubicite ore (rare)</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">3 storm end heartwood (rare)</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">1 stand of ether (rare)</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d"></span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">If you are only looking for a single primary component, trading the extras to the other crafters for the ones you need seems viable. Sell them on the broker and buy the ones you need. Crafter’s are crafty. </span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d"></span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">We’ll be addressing the bugged resource requirements soon.</span>

Mermut
11-08-2017, 09:08 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Kander"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Kander said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476272#post-6476272" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><snip><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">During this 21 minutes, I collected:</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">50 deadly mushrooms</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">310 etherium</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">357 gnarled entwood</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">143 golden ember</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">313 greatmole meat</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">238 plumwit hides</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">91 rock fern</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">481 storm stalks</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">2 cnidcara hides (rare)</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">1 darkstone (rare)</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">2 rubicite ore (rare)</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">3 storm end heartwood (rare)</span><br /><span style="color: #1f497d">1 stand of ether (rare)</span><br /><snip><span style="color: #1f497d">.</span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>What kind of harvesting stats went into this? (bountiful harvest, harvest speed, skill, etc)<br /> <br />Additional Note: Be sure to add fish nodes to the node popping. Even if the amounts are reduced, if the mats used are maintained, scholar recipes are going to use a huge amount of fish... especially since scholar recipes have never used fish (or other food harvests) in the past.

Senya
11-08-2017, 09:13 PM
This news is pretty disappointing. I mean, it wasn't as bad as never getting upgrades, but still...I'm not a happy crafter, and judging by this thread neither are a lot of others.

Sudedor
11-08-2017, 09:26 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Kander"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Kander said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476272#post-6476272" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><span style="color: #1f497d">We’ll be addressing the bugged resource requirements soon.</span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Thanks for taking the time Kander. This above, to me, is the most encouraging part. If the requirements are bugged and too high, there may well be fewer issues than it currently seems. Just having someone tell us "Oh, that's a bug" is a big help. Thank you again.

Jhen Ro
11-08-2017, 09:28 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Kander"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Kander said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476272#post-6476272" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><span style="color: #1f497d">Currently, we have doubled the amount of harvest nodes since Saturday and they are on Independent Spawn Camps. The way independent spawn camps work, they force a minimum number of nodes to be up at a time, which means the more harvesters in the zone at other locations the better it is to harvest, since more nodes will spawn in the area you are in.</span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />I find this an interesting idea... <br /> <br />Reminds me of the beaches on the Beginner Qeynos Isle.... One shiny up on Beach A, zero on Beach B. Harvest the shiny on Beach A, then Beach B now has a shiny pop. Harvest on B, pops on A? Does it work like that?<br /> <br />Or is it more like, Beach A will have 10 nodes - minimum of 5. When Down to 4, a node auto pops, so Beach A always has nodes?

Kander
11-08-2017, 09:48 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Mermut"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Mermut said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476274#post-6476274" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">What kind of harvesting stats went into this? (bountiful harvest, harvest speed, skill, etc)<br /> <br />Additional Note: Be sure to add fish nodes to the node popping. Even if the amounts are reduced, if the mats used are maintained, scholar recipes are going to use a huge amount of fish... especially since scholar recipes have never used fish (or other food harvests) in the past.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /><span style="font-size: xx-large"><i><span style="color: #1f497d">For fun, I started a harvesting run at 11:04 am PDT, finished at 11:25 am PDT, and I did not use any harvesting gear at all, except the <span style="color: #ff0000">compact sumac harvesting kit</span> which reduces harvest time. Which means that if you use any of the large amount of Trade Skill rewards that are available , you will get more. </span></i></span>

Kander
11-08-2017, 09:49 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Sudedor"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Sudedor said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476281#post-6476281" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Thanks for taking the time Kander. This above, to me, is the most encouraging part. If the requirements are bugged and too high, there may well be fewer issues than it currently seems. Just having someone tell us "Oh, that's a bug" is a big help. Thank you again.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />You bet! We still got lots of time for tweaks.

Kander
11-08-2017, 09:49 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Jhen Ro"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Jhen Ro said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476283#post-6476283" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I Or is it more like, Beach A will have 10 nodes - minimum of 5. When Down to 4, a node auto pops, so Beach A always has nodes?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>You got it. That is it!

Mermut
11-08-2017, 10:00 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Kander"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Kander said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476291#post-6476291" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><span style="font-size: xx-large"><i><span style="color: #1f497d">For fun, I started a harvesting run at 11:04 am PDT, finished at 11:25 am PDT, and I did not use any harvesting gear at all, except the <span style="color: #ff0000">compact sumac harvesting kit</span> which reduces harvest time. Which means that if you use any of the large amount of Trade Skill rewards that are available , you will get more. </span></i></span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>It also has 12% bountiful harvest<br /><a href="http://u.eq2wire.com/soe/item_search_link/sumac+harvesting+kit/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1" target="_blank" class="externalLink" rel="nofollow">aITEM -2119634804 -326047816:Compact Sumac Harvesting Kit/a</a><br /> <br />Thanks for the info.<br />Do you remember the harvesting skills? Unless things have changed higher harvest skills give you a better chance to get higher quantities for each 'pull'.

Ahshuckins
11-08-2017, 10:01 PM
Well Kander, I went out and harvested in harvest gear on unbuffed ADV toon for 45 mins (as this is what we will be at start) I have to say I got more rares than you, but being #6 on server for rares, not uncommon for me anyway. I did fish as well. I did not get half as much as you did in many areas of mats (I had to skirt a lot of the mobs because I was in harvest gear, which takes a long time to kill if not in ADV gear). I don't doubt your numbers at all. But do doubt the need to not update GH Harvesters (they don't get crap for 2 hours its a minimal amount but does help offset some)

knine
11-08-2017, 10:23 PM
I just spent 30 mins harvesting and fishing. This is my results.<br /> <br />Stats= 770 all skills<br />bountiful harvest=42%<br />rare harvest chance=7%<br /> <br />122 greatmole meat<br />118 plumwit hides<br />327 stormstalk<br />165 golden ember<br />222 gnarled entwood<br />108 nightmare cichlid<br />88 rockfern<br /><div align="left"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #200b01">31 deadly mushroom</span></span></div><div align="left"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #200b01">26 etherium</span></span></div>1 darkstone (rare)<br /><div align="left"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #200b01">10 strand of ether (rare)</span></span></div><div align="left"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #200b01">6 storm ent heartwood</span></span></div><div align="left"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #200b01">5 rubicite ore</span></span></div><div align="left"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #200b01">5 cinideara hide</span></span></div><div align="left"><br /></div><div align="left"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #200b01">1 planar energy ???</span></span></div><div align="left"><br /></div><div align="left"><br /></div><div align="left"><br /></div><div align="left"><br /></div><div align="left"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #200b01">What I've noticed is that most of your fungal growths are in the highlands, hardly any at all in the pakiat bluffs area. I found like 10 nodes of fish on bluffs side and down near gardens but on aetherscar they were pretty scarce. I'm not sure what's required of everyone's Tradeskillers for writs and what not, but I'm sure this will not get you a level in tradeskilling, let alone probably more than a few writs themselves. Rares aren't horribly rare which will help keep cost down at least. Spread out more nodes to the pakiat bluffs and more fish on the aetherscar side. The need for pack ponies and harvesters are still there as they can supplement not having go harvesting for one day. Again this was 30 mins of nothing but harvesting. No time to quest, no time to run zones with fellow guild mates, only harvesting. </span></span></div><div align="left"><br /></div><div align="left"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #200b01">What is the planar energy for????</span></span></div>

knine
11-08-2017, 10:34 PM
I also sent out the guild harvesters for level 30-39 stuff as I was working on filling everything back up and this is the results I got after two hours, mind you no one else can send them back out until they return.<br /> <br /> <br />14 cucumber<br />3 everfrost beans<br />19 green tea leaf<br />18 wild apple<br />76 severed briarwood<br />76 tussah root<br />9 glimmering material<br />12 bear meat<br />10 griffon meat<br />56 murkwater carp<br />36 sharkfin<br />59 etched leather pelt<br />61 feyiron cluster<br />34 opaline<br />59 supple loam<br />42 velium cluster<br /> <br /> <br /> <br />This is just to supplement crafters. If there are 5 short here or there, boom they have it and don't have to run back out and look for the nodes, harvest and then call home to finish combine. I'll do pack pony as well and see what I get for it.<br />I had already sent him for level 100 stuff. Again only once every two hours and this is what he had gotten me.<br /> <br />31 fruiting sporangium<br />8 fruticose lichen<br />58 malduran lumber<br />6 mycelial tendrils<br />82 thalumbral root<br />10 wild tempeh<br />10 thaumic material<br />83 abyssal pelt<br />76 umbral trout<br />73 bornite nodule<br />62 splitiron ore<br />67 umbrite<br /> <br />IF people have more than one toon with the pony, then they put in the hardwork. Lets say they have 5 toons with pony, then average they will get is maybe 500 max of one item and they can only do every 2 hours. During that 2 hours they can be tradeskilling or out working on their adventure line. That's how I've always done it and maintained both adventurer and crafter. Numbers show there is no need to not put these in the game. These again are supplemental and something people put in time to obtain.

Shmogre
11-08-2017, 10:52 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Kander"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Kander said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476272#post-6476272" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><span style="color: #1f497d">A single rush order should require about 90 components combining primary and sub components. There are some recipes that are bugged that require more than that at the moment because the build components are off. This is another symptom of the issue that caused some recipes to use harvests for fuels, or incorrect primary components.[...]</span><br /> <br /><span style="color: #1f497d">We’ll be addressing the bugged resource requirements soon.</span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>This is good news...thank you, Kander. As you may have seen a bit higher up in this thread, my sage was taking literally hundreds of components and fuels per writ, thousands per level, so the totals required to gain even a single level were utterly overwhelming.<br /> <br />Getting confirmation that these values are not intended helps make it a little less daunting. Many thanks for the reassurance and communication.

Mermut
11-08-2017, 10:59 PM
Harvesting pass at 2:25 - 2:45 pm pst<br />Harvesting stats: 7% rare harvest chance, 15% bountiful harvest, 550 harvesting skills (all from AA/prestige)<br /> <br />2 cnidcara hide<br />2 darkstone<br />67 deadly mushroom<br />352 etherium<br />26 gnarled entwood<br />90 golden ember<br />72 greatmole meat<br />1 matron's heart<br />6 nightmare cichlid<br />135 plumewit hide<br />125 rock fern<br />2 rubicite ore<br />319 storm stalk<br />1199 total<br /> <br />I'm using a lvl 100 (adventure and TS) toon so the harvesting stats will be that of most crafters. The adeventure level means I don't have to dodge mobs<br /> <br />That's about the same amount it took the same toon to get 70 min before. A definite improvement<br /> <br />I would suggest looking at the fish nodes. They are much sparser and have been much stingier on the return per pull.

Kuulei
11-08-2017, 11:02 PM
Now take into consideration fighting over nodes Kander, you went and harvested with little to no competition <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" /><br />Also I run with most of the bells and whistles while harvesting and it is still disappointing that some nodes just don't want to give more than 2 items per draw <img src="/images/smilies/tongue.gif" alt="Tongue" />

Bhayar
11-08-2017, 11:19 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Kuulei"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Kuulei said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476318#post-6476318" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Now take into consideration fighting over nodes Kander, you went and harvested with little to no competition <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" /><br /> <br />I also noted that. Now, extrapolate that statement with the number of people for the first few months jammed into those areas. By comparison, it'll make the Great Oklahoma Land Rush look like the Sahara Desert at high noon. People will not be happy about being forced to buy mats off the broker at outrageous prices because they simply can't harvest from non-existent nodes. I'm not a doomsayer, but a word of caution for consideration: screw this one up and I'm reminded of the scene from Dr. Strangelove or How I Learned to Love the Bomb. It will not be a positive outcome for everyone and could have some serious consequences for players and the game. Don't create a gating mechanism and block people from achieving goals with decisions based on assumptions, not hard facts and tools they've been using for years. You want to make changes--phase it in over time and based on what is--not what you think it ought to be.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>

Alenna
11-08-2017, 11:31 PM
Kander, you should also take into consideration that just plain harvesting gives no xp at all. something the Adventurers do not have to deal with when they are grinding for their levels. What if the Adventurers were told they had to do hours of a non xp gaining action before they could grind the mobs for their xp gain they would rightfully be up in arms about it wouldn't they.<br />please reconsider the pack pony and guild harvesters. Do not force the crafters do something that does not gain them tradeskill xp when you are not doign the same to the Adventurers. and no I don't not want you to do to the adventurers what you are doing the crafters here.I'';m saying treat the Crafters like you are treating the Adventurers. let us keep the tools we have had to help us grind.

Shmogre
11-08-2017, 11:43 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Alenna"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Alenna said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476331#post-6476331" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Do not force the crafters do something that does not gain them tradeskill xp when you are not doign the same to the Adventurers.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>For what it's worth, they've actually greatly minimized the amount of XP adventurers get from killing overland mobs; the main way to get adventure XP now is through quest completion. They have essentially taken away one way to get reliable adventure XP (killing mobs) and focused instead on big bursts of XP by doing quests.<br /> <br />However, as you pointed out, the adventurers can jump straight in to PoP and start gaining XP from the start, while tradeskillers will have to spend chunks of time harvesting before we can even begin. It would be like having adventurers go and gather their ammo from contested nodes before they could begin leveling. <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" />

Alenna
11-08-2017, 11:53 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Shmogre"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Shmogre said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476337#post-6476337" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">For what it's worth, they've actually greatly minimized the amount of XP adventurers get from killing overland mobs; the main way to get adventure XP now is through quest completion. They have essentially taken away one way to get reliable adventure XP (killing mobs) and focused instead on big bursts of XP by doing quests.<br /> <br />However, as you pointed out, the adventurers can jump straight in to PoP and start gaining XP from the start, while tradeskillers will have to spend chunks of time harvesting before we can even begin. It would be like having adventurers go and gather their ammo from contested nodes before they could begin leveling. <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" /></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>exactly

Mermut
11-09-2017, 12:12 AM
From various comments from the devs.. it feels like the whole point of not upgrading the ponies and guild harveters is explicitly to make the basic mats 'worth something'... and 'something' in this case seems to be plat.. <br />I do not understand why 'encouraging' crafters to spend plat to be able to level is a good or even desirable thing, but that seems to be at least part of the goal.

Scrappyz
11-09-2017, 12:21 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Mermut"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Mermut said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476343#post-6476343" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">From various comments from the devs.. it feels like the whole point of not upgrading the ponies and guild harveters is explicitly to make the basic mats 'worth something'... and 'something' in this case seems to be plat..<br /> <br />I do not understand why 'encouraging' crafters to spend plat to be able to level is a good or even desirable thing, but that seems to be at least part of the goal.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />Because it'll encourage more Kronos to be bought and sold for plat so said crafters can afford broker prices.. thus filling DB's pockets

Sejreia
11-09-2017, 12:22 AM
Yep, sorry about the cnidcara hide comment. I didn't realize I'd done my harvest test after I read the update notes but just before the update went in, so I did that before the recent addition of nodes too! I was up too late <img src="/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" alt="BigGrin" /> Glad to see this node system implemented, Thank You!

Mermut
11-09-2017, 12:29 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Scrappyz"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Scrappyz said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476344#post-6476344" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Because it'll encourage more Kronos to be bought and sold for plat so said crafters can afford broker prices.. thus filling DB's pockets</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I doubt they're going to get many people who are primarily crafters buying krono to afford mats... it's far more likely they'll wait to buy PoP, not buy PoP, or something more drastic <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />

Whilhelmina
11-09-2017, 12:34 AM
I used the pakiat area port, went to the Drukyna Marsh and harvested along the way, in the marsh, then went into the water surrounding the isle and back to the marsh. At that time, somebody else was harvesting so the area was bare (but for a couple fungus).<br />The whole Drukyna Marsh harvesting tour is pretty long, so I was surprised to not get back some harvests when I finished.<br /> <br />Impressions:<br /><ul><li>too low number of fish nodes</li><li>fish nodes too far from the shore</li><li>surprised to not see a couple of fishes in said marsh</li><li>node spawn coverage is fine in this area (and everything spawns)</li><li>node respawn was way too low (for the amount of node harvested, if I had been on my harvest route above Paineel which I grinded for years and am very familiar with [including a couple months ago with same stats], it should have started respawning when I went back to my starting point)</li></ul>Total for 1 hour (went from 500 base skill to 535 along the way):<br /> <br />Total : 1629<br />Celestial Spellshard - 1<br />cnidcara hide - 3<br />darkstone - 2<br />deadly mushroom - 64<br />etherium - 205<br />gnarled entwood - 354<br />golden ember - 183<br />greatmole meat - 173<br />nightmare cichlid - 99<br />Planar Energy - 1<br />plumewit hide - 165<br />rock fern - 66<br />rubicite ore - 2<br />storm ent heartwood - 8<br />storm stalk - 301<br />strand of ether - 2<br /> <br />great, I have now enough wood to do 14 carpenter writs (and didn't managed to max out my skill, go figure)<br /> <br />skills (started with 703)<br />fishing 732<br />Foresting : 730<br />Gathering : 738<br />Mining : 738<br />Trapping : 738<br />Bountiful Harvest : 64%<br />Rare harvest chance : 6%<br />(sumac kit and overclocked combine harvester)

Alenna
11-09-2017, 02:47 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Mermut"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Mermut said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476343#post-6476343" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">From various comments from the devs.. it feels like the whole point of not upgrading the ponies and guild harveters is explicitly to make the basic mats 'worth something'... and 'something' in this case seems to be plat..<br />I do not understand why 'encouraging' crafters to spend plat to be able to level is a good or even desirable thing, but that seems to be at least part of the goal.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>or they are being told to do this so the mats on the marketplace you get for DBC will sell.

Mermut
11-09-2017, 02:55 AM
An interesting side effect of this change... there are going to be waaaaay more rares floating around. Crafters are going to have to do SOO much harvesting to level their toons, that they will be pulling way more rares out of nodes then the ponies would have brought back in the same time.<br /> <br />Soo.. regular mats might be 'worth something' with this change, but rares will, ironically, be worth LESS.

Shmogre
11-09-2017, 03:12 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Mermut"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Mermut said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476370#post-6476370" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">An interesting side effect of this change... there are going to be waaaaay more rares floating around. Crafters are going to have to do SOO much harvesting to level their toons, that they will be pulling way more rares out of nodes then the ponies would have brought back in the same time.<br /> <br />Soo.. regular mats might be 'worth something' with this change, but rares will, ironically, be worth LESS.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>That makes me afraid that they will simply lower the rare harvest chance. I hope not, as it would be nice to have something in exchange for changing the way the game has worked for years.<br /><br />I think what non-tradeskillers don’t realize is that, yes, we used the ponies and harvesters, but we did actually venture out into the world to harvest for rares and special harvests. A lot. Often for hours at a time. And those that didn’t want to made it worthwhile for those who did, to the tune of hundreds of thousands to millions of plat.<br /><br />With luck, our patience will pay off and we’ll get a kick-butt quest line, our ponies will learn to help us in PoP, and we’ll have something to offer the adventuring toons (many of us have those, too). I’m trying to be a positive ogre...after many years in Norrath in many roles, I’m hoping I can keep the streak going.

Lateana
11-09-2017, 06:17 AM
<b>Using my best harvester with nearly all gear and maxed skills (I know, its not a fair test)</b><br /> <br /><b>One hour 10:52 PM CST until 11:52 PM CST 11/9/2017</b><br />Rare Harvest Chance 14%<br />Bountiful Harvest 75%<br />Harvesting Skills all at 760<br />No competition<br />Clear-Cut Harvesting<br /><b>Rares:</b><br />Celestial Spellshard 2<br />Matron's Heart 1<br />Rubicite 16<br />Strand of Ether 23<br />Cnidcara Hide 7<br />Storm Ent Heartwood 8<br /><b>Commons:</b><br />Plumewit Hide 269<br />Golden Ember 455<br />Rock Fern 163<br />Deadly Mushroom 152<br />Gnarled Entwood 463<br />Storm Stalk 512<br />Etherium 563<br />Nightmare Cichlid 22<br />Greatmole Meat 356<br /><b>Notes:</b><br />Too few fish nodes<br />Total Harvests 3,012

Whilhelmina
11-09-2017, 10:56 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Whilhelmina"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Whilhelmina said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476348#post-6476348" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">gnarled entwood - 354<br />(...)<br />great, I have now enough wood to do 14 carpenter writs (and didn't managed to max out my skill, go figure)</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I realized afterwards, but I had already shut down the computer for the night, that this isn't 14 writs, but 14 combines, so 2 writs... AKA enough mats for 3 minutes of crafting (with a progress potion) or 10 minutes without.<br />Skills not maxed out and competition of a single harvester (who grabbed the whole respawn of the area I was in). And I was greatly slowed down by trying to gather some fish nodes at the same time.<br /> <br />The harvest session of Lateana above (with skills maxed out so no 5 tries per node) yielded enough wood for 18.52 carpenter combines, <b>so 3 writs. For 1h of harvesting</b>.

jbc1948
11-09-2017, 12:43 PM
Testing how much you can get harvesting in beta does give an idea what you could get over a set period. The main problem is Live will be way tougher as the amount of people trying to harvest will be huge--especially early on. The amounts you harvested in beta in 1 hour may take several hours on live. There will be a bit of relief early when there are multiple copies of Planes due to the early mad rush when an Xpac opens. Then it'll start going downhill. I hope we all enjoy searching for nodes on tracking and trying to win the race to it--then hoping you don't harvest a lot of 2's

Alenna
11-09-2017, 04:14 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Lateana"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Lateana said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476395#post-6476395" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><b>Using my best harvester with nearly all gear and maxed skills (I know, its not a fair test)</b><br /> <br /><b>One hour 10:52 PM CST until 11:52 PM CST 11/9/2017</b><br />Rare Harvest Chance 14%<br />Bountiful Harvest 75%<br />Harvesting Skills all at 760<br />No competition<br />Clear-Cut Harvesting<br /><b>Rares:</b><br />Celestial Spellshard 2<br />Matron's Heart 1<br />Rubicite 16<br />Strand of Ether 23<br />Cnidcara Hide 7<br />Storm Ent Heartwood 8<br /><b>Commons:</b><br />Plumewit Hide 269<br />Golden Ember 455<br />Rock Fern 163<br />Deadly Mushroom 152<br />Gnarled Entwood 463<br />Storm Stalk 512<br />Etherium 563<br />Nightmare Cichlid 22<br />Greatmole Meat 356<br /><b>Notes:</b><br />Too few fish nodes<br />Total Harvests 3,012</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>we harvesters need to get together and show them how it will be when the nodes are contested. then maybe they will understand why we need the ponies and guild harvesters.

Alenna
11-09-2017, 04:17 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="jbc1948"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">jbc1948 said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476448#post-6476448" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Testing how much you can get harvesting in beta does give an idea what you could get over a set period. The main problem is Live will be way tougher as the amount of people trying to harvest will be huge--especially early on. The amounts you harvested in beta in 1 hour may take several hours on live. There will be a bit of relief early when there are multiple copies of Planes due to the early mad rush when an Xpac opens. Then it'll start going downhill. I hope we all enjoy searching for nodes on tracking and trying to win the race to it--then hoping you don't harvest a lot of 2's</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>that is why we need to get together as harvesters and show them what happens when all crafters have ot go and harvest for thier mats. I have a feeling we wont' even get enough after 1 hour to do one combine much less one writ.

Stach
11-09-2017, 05:32 PM
Wow this is awesome, back to the way EQ2 started out harvesting. I think this and the tithe changes are probably the two best things for the new expansion.

knine
11-09-2017, 05:54 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Stach"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Stach said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476498#post-6476498" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Wow this is awesome, back to the way EQ2 started out harvesting. I think this and the tithe changes are probably the two best things for the new expansion.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Sure, let’s go back to collecting spirit shards and no flying mounts. Take away familiars, etc. Take away things that you accomplished doing quest lines. The pack pony was a quest line reward and upgraded via another quest to sometimes get rares. You just don’t take that away lol. If you never did the line then so be it, but to the ones that have done it we are being told to p*** off so that we can experience the xpac lol. Chances are, and I’m going out on a limb here, that most people who have the pack pony are questers and get out in the overland anyway.

Kander
11-09-2017, 06:19 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="knine"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">knine said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6476506#post-6476506" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Sure, let’s go back to collecting spirit shards and no flying mounts. Take away familiars, etc. Take away things that you accomplished doing quest lines. The pack pony was a quest line reward and upgraded via another quest to sometimes get rares. You just don’t take that away lol. If you never did the line then so be it, but to the ones that have done it we are being told to p*** off so that we can experience the xpac lol. Chances are, and I’m going out on a limb here, that most people who have the pack pony are questers and get out in the overland anyway.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>We've already stated that there will be an upgrade for the pack pony when we release the signature line content after the expansion. No one is being told to piss off.<br /> <br />Locking this thread as it has become arguing and name calling.