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cocoa_boy
12-11-2004, 10:32 AM
<DIV>I am lvl 24 and am currently using the Shadow Blade of Zeal. SBoZ is currently white and will be looking to upgrade to a better 1h weapon before dinging to 25. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fellow Shadowknights, what upgrades have you found to replace the Shadow Blade? Thankyou in advance for your input</DIV>

EDG
12-11-2004, 04:18 PM
<DIV>Skullcrusher</DIV>

ridg
12-11-2004, 04:55 PM
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=3>Incase you didnt know, The Skullcrusher Edgey is referring to is a quest that drops in Fallen Gate. It is some sort of mining pick that you examine  and then follow directions. Skullcrusher is the reward and it is nice.</FONT></DIV>

Drax
12-11-2004, 09:19 PM
<DIV>I currently no longer weild the Skullcrusher and opt for a Nerius Pirate Scimitar. I recieved it for completing a quest for a guy in East Freeport (second floor of tavern, was a Ratonga NPC) that asked me to kill some Nerius Pirates. The sword does less damage than the Skullcrusher, but is much faster (1.5 speed) and I tend to proc Grim Harbringer ALOT with it. Its overall DPS seems a bit superior, but the added procs make a world of difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They also had a 2.5 70ish damage two handed sword that is alright, I have one of them as well (my fiancee did the quest with me and chose to just give me her reward). It's not a huge improvement though over the skullcrusher or scimitar - not enough to make me want to drop my shield for anyway. It is cool though, it's massive enough to be as tall as my Iksar</DIV>

EDG
12-12-2004, 02:31 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Draxis wrote:<BR> <DIV>I currently no longer weild the Skullcrusher and opt for a Nerius Pirate Scimitar. <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <DIV>I've had both for a while, and used both to keep my slashing and crushing skills both up.  Here is the full comparison:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am, at the time of this post lvl 26 SK</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Nerius Pirate Simitar </STRONG>- <FONT color=#ff0000>12-36dmg </FONT>- <FONT color=#66ff00>1.3spd </FONT>- <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>552-1656 dmg </FONT>per minute </STRONG>- <EM>46 swings per minute - 1104 avg DPM = 18 DPS</EM></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Skullcrusher </STRONG>- <FONT color=#ff0000>17-52dmg </FONT>- <FONT color=#66cc00>2.0spd </FONT>-<STRONG> <FONT color=#ff0000>510-1560dmg </FONT>per minute </STRONG>- <EM>30 swings per minute - 1035 avg DPM = 17 DPS</EM></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Nerius Pirate Greatsword </STRONG><EM>- <FONT color=#ff0000>27-81dmg </FONT>- <FONT color=#66cc00>2.5spd </FONT>- </EM><FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>648-1944dmg </STRONG></FONT>per minute <EM>- 24 swings per minute - 1296 avg DPM = 22 DPS</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>The thing to remember is the "length" of our battles... we slowly wear down our opponent.  Consistent damage over time is important when soloing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As you can see, in extended battles, <STRONG><EM>the Nerius Pirate Simitar wins.</EM></STRONG>  ALSO! - Given our abilities; Blessed Weapon, and Grim Harbringer, the faster we swing the more chances we get for those "chances" to take place.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll post this in a seperate thread as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>***edit - </STRONG>I screwed up my math, above are the corrected values...  The Nerius Pirate sword has a slight edge over the skullcrusher.  The 16 additional swings also counts for 16 additional chances per minutes to score a blessed weapon or harbringer added dmg.</FONT></DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by EDGEY on <span class=date_text>12-12-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:03 AM</span>

Drax
12-12-2004, 02:49 AM
<DIV>Glad to see I was right about which weapon to use =P</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, that is amazingly informative =) How did you parse that so well?</DIV>

cocoa_boy
12-12-2004, 05:46 AM
<DIV>Thanks for the responses. I actually completed the Quest for Skullcrusher, and gave it to a friend to use for a time. I have found the EFP quest to kill Narius Pirates. I have yet to complete it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am currently using a player crafted Pristine Carbonite 2h Broadsword that has nice stats and still cons orange to me. (I love that blade). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, I will complete the EFP quest and grab that 1h. I appreciate it! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Bannon
12-13-2004, 11:23 PM
<DIV>I'm assuming these quest have level restrictions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've talked to that guy who gives the pirate sword quest before, however, he doesnt respond to me at level 17.</DIV>

N7649U
12-13-2004, 11:45 PM
I did the quest in EFRP and i took the 2hander, but for some odd reason I dont hit any harder than i do with the skullcrusher. Could this be because it still cons orange to me?? I just dont understand why it doesnt do any more damage, I have friend who is a level higher and hits for 70ish with it, max i have ever hit with it was 50. Anyone have a clue?Gorn24sk

Trebla
12-13-2004, 11:54 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Draxis wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, that is amazingly informative =) How did you parse that so well?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <DIV>Herein lies the problem, he didn't parse it at all.  He took the min/max damage and multiplied it by the number of swings per minute (unhasted).  Then took a theoretical average which <STRONG>has nothing to do with real numbers</STRONG> and multiplied that by the number of swings.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not only that, but he went on the assumption that procs are a chance per swing rather than a fixed number of procs per minute (which it was in EQ1) despite the fact that no parsing data shows this.  Further that, the data takes no account for ATK or AC of the wielder or foe respectively, relying on the theory that while the numbers may be wrong, the ratios will scale.  Let's not ignore that this doesn't take into account chances for missing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Essentially, it's a nice base set of numbers, but an actual parse would be more useful.  As it is, the numbers in that post are meaningless.</DIV></DIV>

EDG
12-14-2004, 12:53 AM
<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TreblaBB wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Draxis wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, that is amazingly informative =) How did you parse that so well?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <DIV>Herein lies the problem, he didn't parse it at all.  He took the min/max damage and multiplied it by the number of swings per minute (unhasted).  Then took a theoretical average which <STRONG>has nothing to do with real numbers</STRONG> and multiplied that by the number of swings.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not only that, but he went on the assumption that procs are a chance per swing rather than a fixed number of procs per minute (which it was in EQ1) despite the fact that no parsing data shows this.  Further that, the data takes no account for ATK or AC of the wielder or foe respectively, relying on the theory that while the numbers may be wrong, the ratios will scale.  Let's not ignore that this doesn't take into account chances for missing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Essentially, it's a nice base set of numbers, but an actual parse would be more useful.  As it is, the numbers in that post are meaningless.</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'll still use the weapon that has a higher "low base damage" <STRONG>AND</STRONG> a higher "high base damage" <STRONG>AND</STRONG> higher average DPS, even though my numbers are meaningless.</P> <P>And yes, weild skill, attack level, opponent AC, and misses take come into play.  But those have no bearing on a single weapons min/mix dmg and avg DPS.  This is a flat comparison of weapon stats.</FONT></P> <P>The bottom line is, the nerius pirate simitar over time will out-damage the skullcrusher.</FONT></P> <P>Is it possible to 1 shot a 50HP mob with a skullcrusher?  yes.  Is it possible to do that with the nerius?  no.  Do we come across 50HP mobs?  no.  Do we slowly wear down our opponents over time in long battles?  yes.  A simple law of averages will show that consistently using the nerius pirate simitar will result in consistent higher DPS over long battles.</FONT></P> <P><EM>so...  meaningless?  no.</EM></FONT></P>

Trebla
12-14-2004, 01:21 AM
<DIV> <DIV>The numbers I meant were meaningless are the actual DPS numbers, not the raw high and low damage of the weapon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The "average hit" in the original equation assumes a) that every swing is a hit and b) there is an even distribution of all ranges across the hit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Neither of these two assumptions are true.  <EM>a</EM> being false, lowers the DPS of all three weapons relative to the DPS listed (close to uniformly) and <EM>b</EM> being false has completely unknown consequences depending on the unique min and max for each weapon.  So while the numbers listed show Skullcrusher at 17 DPS and NPG at 22 DPS, the actual numbers (assuming identical damage formulas) would probably be closer to 10 DPS and 13 DPS.  All that aside though, we don't know the damage formulas for hit damage from weapon damage, so without an accurate parse, it's all guesswork.  The Skullcrusher <EM>could</EM> be weighted to the high end of the range while the NPG is weighted to the low end...  it's all just theory though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: spelling</DIV></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Edit: If the damage calculation mirror's EQ 1's damage calculation then the ratios are more reliable, my point is that this hasn't been shown...  yet.</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by TreblaBB on <span class=date_text>12-13-2004</span> <span class=time_text>12:24 PM</span>

EDG
12-14-2004, 04:10 AM
<DIV>There's alot of thing that haven't been proven in this game.. for example, are skels more prone to damage against crushing than slashing and so forth...?  Alot of stuff we dont know.  Like I said, I've kept both to keep my crushing and slashing skills up... and from first hand knowledge, I have a much faster success rate (soloing) with the nerius simitar (i came to that conclusion prior to doing the math), against identical opponents...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A lower level or higher level character could have different results, depending on their weapon skill, and the "current" stats of the weapon, those apply to me, as a 26 SK (which I mentioned)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alot of outside factors could change this as well.. however those outside factors have to be the same to come to a proper analysis...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For example:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>in 4.0 seconds you swing the skullcrusher 2 times.</DIV> <DIV>in 4.0 seconds you swing the nerius 3 times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>this exponetially increases the miss rate with the nerius.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>in 8.0 seconds you swing the skullcrusher 4 times.</DIV> <DIV>in 8.0 seconds you swing the nerius 3 times. 6 times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>however, the weapon speed increases "miss recovery".. by offering more chances for a connection with the nerius.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>hasting has no bearing on this at all...  if you hasten 1 weapon, you have to hasten the other for a proper comparison.  unless hasting causes the weapon speed to hit "max speed", like no weapon can hit faster than once per sec, in which case the skull crusher could outdamage the nerius (but we don't know the variables, or the speed caps, or if anything is even in place to cause a speed cap).  ...and SOE isn't exactly forthcoming with the math behind it all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So first hand experience, the nerius is better, and mathematically the average DPS is better.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I'd like to see what math you use to come up with 10 DPS and 13 DPS.  I'm openminded, so if you can figure out a better way to get average DPS of a weapon please tell me.  The weapon stats listed above are direct from in-game, and my crushing and slashing are both equal.  So have at it, and let me know.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think I used:</DIV> <DIV>(((min+max)/2)*(60/spd))/60</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>where:</DIV> <DIV>min = minimum weapon damage</DIV> <DIV>max = maximum weapon damage</DIV> <DIV>spd = weapon speed</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by EDGEY on <span class=date_text>12-13-2004</span> <span class=time_text>03:13 PM</span>

Darkness
12-14-2004, 06:02 AM
After reading this thread i thought that it may be fair to calculate how well each weapon performs at its minimum and maximum potential and here are my results.In order to have a good number to work with i made the time frame 52 seconds because it is divisible by 1.3 and 2.0 (delays of Nerius Pirate Scimitar and Skullcrusher).--Nerius Pirate Scimitar: 12-36dmg/1.3dly[12(52/1.3)]/52 = 9.2307692 dmg per second at its lowest potential.[36(52/1.3)]/52 = 27.692307 dmg per second at its highest potential.9.2307692 + 27.692307 = 36.923076 / 2 = 18.461538 average damage per second assuming there are no misses and each number between 12 and 36 has an equal chance of hitting.--Skullcrusher: 17-52dmg/2.0dly[17(52/2.0)]/52 = 8.5 dmg per second at its lowest potential.[52(52/2.0)]/52 = 26 dmg per second at its highest potential.8.5 + 26 = 34.5 / 2 = 17.25 average damage per second assuming there are no misses and each number between 17 and 52 has an equal chance of hitting.Because all the math was done with multiplication and division, if u were to factor in a miss rate by multiplying the number of swings by X% it would be equal to multiplying the average dps of both weapons (17.25 and 18.46153<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> by X%. This would then mean that miss rate (assuming both weapons have an equal miss rate) would have no bearing on which weapon does more damage.My figures are consistent with Edgey's figures of 17 and 18 dps. About proc rate... In EQ1 proc rate was based on the delay of weapon however it was the higher delay weapons that had a better chance of procing. There was a weapon called the Earthshaker that had the proc Earthquake which was a decent damaging druid AoE. Earthshaker also had a delay of 70 which is equal to 7.0 delay in EQ2. It also had a damage of something like 35 horrible in regards to a 70 delay weapon because you could buy a 35dmg weapon with 30 or 3.0 delay. The 35/30 wep would cost around 1000 platinum where as the Earthshaker... *drumroll* 250,000 platinum! Another interesting thing was that Warriors were buying Earthshaker to tank because its AoE proc created massive hate toward the warrior. Risky eh? I think the fact that warriors were spending 250k on a weapon with 70 delay so that they could get more agro makes me tend to believe that higher delay weapons proc'd more in EQ1. You could have got two 18 delay weapons that each proc'd stuns!!! thus if this did not change in EQ2 we would proc more with the Skullcrusher.However nobody knows the facts yet and thus nothing can be percieved as "right". Just my 2cp =D

Seolta
12-14-2004, 03:02 PM
<DIV>Darkness-x wrote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  "I think the fact that warriors were spending 250k on a weapon with 70 delay so that they could get more agro makes me tend to believe that higher delay weapons proc'd more in EQ1."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>It wasn't for the aggro that the cost was so high, it was because a group of Warriors with Earthshakers could use Furious Disc/AE Taunt/Rampage AA ability and take out half a zone in one fight. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, the proc rate of weapons in EQ1 was dictated by a single value in the database entry. This was widely publicized, (I was well aware of this having owned the Hammer of Holy Vengeance which had the highest proc-rate in the entire game.</DIV> <DIV>It was simply the dictate of common sense that led the dev's to usually associate higher proc rates with higher delay weapons(or in the case of the HoHV with a non-offensive class weapon - it was Cleric only). </DIV>

EDG
12-14-2004, 03:42 PM
<DIV>Here's a crude weapons comparison calculator:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://gaming.thoughtbludgeon.com/avgDPScalc.asp" target=_blank>http://gaming.thoughtbludgeon.com/avgDPScalc.asp</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As we get more info, I'll update this to reflect what we know.  (% chance of proc, weapon skill, block/parrry, etc)</DIV>

Trebla
12-14-2004, 07:45 PM
<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> EDGEY wrote:<BR> <DIV> and from first hand knowledge, I have a much faster success rate (soloing) with the nerius simitar (i came to that conclusion prior to doing the math), against identical opponents...</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>There is both your strongest and weakest argument.  You found the results you were looking for when you did the math.  Do you have log files of these fights?  From them it would be easy to get a <STRONG>real</STRONG> dps number.  Also of note, no special skills or HOs should be used during a valid parse, they not only change the damage output, but disrupt the timing of weapons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not claiming that your ratios are absolutely wrong of that NPS isn't as good as Skullcrusher, just that theoretical DPS >>> actual DPS, even though you're attempting an average DPS calculation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>But I'd like to see what math you use to come up with 10 DPS and 13 DPS.  I'm openminded, so if you can figure out a better way to get average DPS of a weapon please tell me.  The weapon stats listed above are direct from in-game, and my crushing and slashing are both equal.  So have at it, and let me know.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV>The numbers 10 and 13 were fictional that (assuming your ratios are correct) are more likely to reflect actual parsed DPS once misses and enemy skills are taken into account.  You would notice that the NPG was still about 30% higher DPS than Skullcrusher as your original ratio would suggest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Potentially, I'll go out and get some numbers tonight, but to really get a good sampling we'd need a 5+ hour session without variation in buffs or mob...  and I don't think I'll get around to that anytime soon.</DIV>

Drax
12-14-2004, 10:20 PM
<DIV>The idea that parsing DPS based on misses is going to ruin the values. Sorry, but if you function in misses your basing your DPS value on the character weilding the weapons. One character with high stats and high slashing fighting green and blue mobs to parse easier is going to miss very little, put that same weapon in a scenario against yellow ^^ mobs with a character with less stats and its going to miss alot more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No matter how you try and do it, or how constant you try to stay, the character weilding the weapons will never be constant nor will the enemies and their AC that is faced. Functioning in misses would be a poor choice, as for every single DPS calculation to compare that you ever did thereafter you would have to use the same character, same level character, same gear, same mob, same everything to get a TRUE base-line DPS to compare weapons with. I seriously doubt thats going to happen anytime soon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ignoring misses is a much better way to get a direct comparison on two weapons. Obviously, if the DPS is nearly the same on average you would opt for the faster weapon, as a miss on a faster weapon is less critical to your overall DPS throughout a fight (this is only true for very short fights, however, thats noted later). This must be presented as common sense however, as the idea is to gain a rough comparison on two weapons. Without a constant to make this comparison, however, you're going to fail miserably at coming up with a parsed dps from logs of combat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>He was providing a rough comparison of the weapons, which in my opinion clearly shows the scimitar to be a superior weapon not only because its theoretical DPS is superior, but because its faster and (in my experience) provides a higher likelyhood of procing. Remember, the weapon doesnt proc - its a static spell on our characters, so argueing theoretical proc chances with higher delay weapons in this case isn't ideal for this particular scenario.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also: If a weapon is faster its less critical to the DPS, yes - But it's also going to miss more, because it has more swings throughout the fight. The damage is going to average out on the two weapons if weilded by the same player over the course of a long battle. My scimitar loses less damage when it misses, but its going to miss more because I'm going to swing more during a fight. If I use the skullcrusher, I'll have less misses throughout the fight but the misses will be more critical to my potential overall damage output.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In any case, my point is that the rough comparison with theoretical DPS is an excellent way to compare two weapons to decide which suites you better. Other factors, such as procs, stats, attack speed, are obviously important to consider - but no calculation will ever take that into proper comparison - you'll have to weigh those benefits on your own. The idea of a theoretical DPS is not to know exactly how much damage you can put out with a fight and know the outcome of a fight before it even starts, its merely to compare two weapons in the same environment to determine which is an overall higher quality weapon in terms of raw damage potential.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Draxis on <span class=date_text>12-14-2004</span> <span class=time_text>12:23 PM</span>

Trebla
12-14-2004, 11:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Draxis wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In any case, my point is that the rough comparison with theoretical DPS is an excellent way to compare two weapons to decide which suites you better. Other factors, such as procs, stats, attack speed, are obviously important to consider - but no calculation will ever take that into proper comparison - you'll have to weigh those benefits on your own. The idea of a theoretical DPS is not to know exactly how much damage you can put out with a fight and know the outcome of a fight before it even starts, its merely to compare two weapons in the same environment to determine which is an overall higher quality weapon in terms of raw damage potential.<BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You can't ignore miss rate.  Especially if the miss rates are different.  If Skullcrusher has an innate miss rate of 25% and NPG has an innate miss rate of 75%, you're going to see a huge difference.  I'm making up those percentages, just to illustrate that you can't take a theoretical number with only partial data.<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Draxis wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>He was providing a rough comparison of the weapons, which in my opinion clearly shows the scimitar to be a superior weapon not only because its theoretical DPS is superior, but because its faster and (in my experience) provides a higher likelyhood of procing. Remember, the weapon doesnt proc - its a static spell on our characters, so argueing theoretical proc chances with higher delay weapons in this case isn't ideal for this particular scenario.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Providing a DPS ratio is ideal, and what needs to be done.  Actual DPS is going to vary by mob and by player.  Extended parses against the same mob are the general basis for DPS ratios though...  not looking at a weapon's listed damage...  because even the ratio is meaningless...  there are so many hidden attributes to an item, and the formulas are not released by Sony, that only be example can you establish which weapon will have the higher DPS.  You wouldn't parse your DPS for one weapon against a blue con solo, then for the other against a yellow (^^), you'd do both against the same mob.<BR> </P> <DIV>Edit:  Having partial information (as used to calculate DPS in the earlier post) and inaccurate information (DPS in the earlier post) is more detrimental than having no information at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Example:</DIV> <DIV>Lawyer: Did you see my client bite the plaintiff's ear off?</DIV> <DIV>Witness: No</DIV> <DIV>Lawyer: Then clearly you aren't much of a witness...  how can you be sure he did it then?</DIV> <DIV>Witness: Because...  I saw him spit it out.</DIV></FONT><p>Message Edited by TreblaBB on <span class=date_text>12-14-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:24 AM</span>

Drax
12-15-2004, 01:09 AM
<DIV>I dont understand your logic behind parsing it against every mob in the game. What you're talking about is just unlogical. We're discussing a way to give a base comparison of two weapons to one another, so we can find what is best suited for a player.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you'd like to parse every weapon in the game against every mob, with every stat combination at every level, with every possible skill, etc etc etc, I'll be the first to use your data. But until then, we need a realistic way to quickly compare two weapons to decide which is overall more functional and better suited for combat. What you're proposing I do not believe would work, simply because each mob has different AC, each player is a different level with different stats, and it would require hours upon hours of data parsed properly against a huge number of different opponents from many different players.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for a weapon with a base miss ratio of 25% and a weapon with a base miss ratio of 75%, as a player I've seen no such evidence of any sort of system like that in place. If weapons had drastically different miss ratio's, other than based on the opponent were fighting or the individual skill level of the player compared to the skill level of the item, I think we would have noticed it. Again, were not going for on the-nose accurate DPS ratios in a static situation (lvl vs lvl, atk vs ac, stats at this point, etc) - while that information would be interesting, it would not provide an on the fly way to compare two weapons for an ideal solution at which we'd prefer to use. Until  some sort of hard evidence is found that weapons have drastically different miss ratios (which by playing would show that, and it has not yet), I wouldn't worry about that too much.</DIV>

Drax
12-15-2004, 01:12 AM
<DIV>I guess what I'm saying is were using information we have access to in order to come to the best possible judgement in a reasonable way to determine which weapon is more effective. We do not have the resources nor the time to accurately determine weapon calculations on phantom or possibly non-existent and incorrect stats that may or may not exist and may or may not play a significant roll in deciding which weapon is more effective.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We have to use what we've got until each weapon in the game is parsed to an insane degree to prove phantom stats exist.</DIV>

Daxtyr_AnnonTuri
12-15-2004, 01:38 AM
<DIV>i always go with the one that "looks" best ..... cause if you look like crap ... you must have poor dps <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>looks > all</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Lkar</DIV> <DIV>20 SK Guk server</DIV>

DrAtla
12-15-2004, 12:31 PM
<blockquote><hr>cocoa_boy wrote:<DIV>I actually completed the Quest for Skullcrusher, and gave it to a friend to use for a time.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Uhhh... The skullcrusher is attunable and like all attunables is no-drop no-trade after attuned... Hope you meant you gave it to your friend for good, not for a time. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Saev
12-15-2004, 08:15 PM
<DIV>Edgey's formula is the one I use more or less to compare weapons atm. It may not be accurate because of the other factors we don't know about, but at least it gives a basis for comparison. I would like to point out though that:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>(((min+max)/2)*(60/spd))/60</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>where:</DIV> <DIV>min = minimum weapon damage</DIV> <DIV>max = maximum weapon damage</DIV> <DIV>spd = weapon speed</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>is the same as:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>((min+max)/2)/spd</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just a little easier to figure out in my head. :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV>

WuphonsReach
12-15-2004, 08:37 PM
((max-min)/2+min)/delay((35-12)/2+12/3.5 = 6.71((12+35)/2)/3.5 = 6.71((19-12)/2+12/3.5 = 4.43((19+12)/2)/3.5 = 4.43For some reason, I didn't think those two formulas were the same result... (too many years since I took Algebra).((max+min)/2)/delay is definitely the easiest to plug into a calculator on the fly.

EDG
12-16-2004, 01:33 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Saevan wrote:<BR> <DIV>Edgey's formula is the one I use more or less to compare weapons atm. It may not be accurate because of the other factors we don't know about, but at least it gives a basis for comparison. I would like to point out though that:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>(((min+max)/2)*(60/spd))/60</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>where:</DIV> <DIV>min = minimum weapon damage</DIV> <DIV>max = maximum weapon damage</DIV> <DIV>spd = weapon speed</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>is the same as:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>((min+max)/2)/spd</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just a little easier to figure out in my head. :smileywink:<BR> <HR> </DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>I initially made the formula to calculate average damage per minute (given our length of battles).  But yep, both work equally well <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>