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View Full Version : How to properly taunt and hold aggro...


EDG
12-09-2004, 11:07 PM
<DIV>I've noticed alot of SK's saying we can't hold aggro</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So far this generally works, the only time this did NOT work, was when I was in a group with 3 wizards each of which was 2 levels higher than me, AOEing the hell out of 7-8 grouped mobs.  And even then...  I still only lost 1 or 2 of the 7 to 8 mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is my general group pull technique:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <OL> <LI>Let everyone know not to cast til you complete your HO.  <FONT color=#ffff00>- They'll know because their hotbar wont be flashing and the big wheel is gone.</FONT></LI> <LI>Macro:  < < < INCOMING > > > %t, Assist the MT! <FONT color=#ffff00>- to let the group know I'm pulling</FONT></LI> <LI>Tainted Caress <FONT color=#ffff00>- or any ranged attack(Righteous Anger), I prefer the de-buff</FONT></LI> <LI>Fighting Chance <FONT color=#ffff00>- starts your HO</FONT></LI> <LI>Grim Coil <FONT color=#ffff00>- range attack, or any attack to continue HO, I pull from max distance, andprefer the ranged attack</FONT></LI> <LI>Shout <FONT color=#ffff00>- Completes the HO, and draws all mob aggro</FONT></LI> <LI>DoF<FONT color=#ffff00> - for obvious reasons.  To ward off damage, and keep your healer from having to chain heal, causing you to lose hate/aggro.</FONT></LI></OL> <P>I've noticed if I complete the HO without anyone else casting, or using abilities (regular melee attack is fine), I NEVER lose aggro.  This requires a little team-work, and you need to inform your group of what your doing...  but it's VERY effective.  Any combination you choose to use given the availability of skills to complete your HO is fine, so long as a taunt (shout for multiple MOBs, or taunt/inflame for single encounters) is used will cause you to pull and maintain aggro.</P> <P>Hope that helps.  :smileyhappy:</P>

Poena_De
12-09-2004, 11:22 PM
<DIV>Dear Edgey,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's good to see that I am not going crazy, I do the same thing shy of announcing I am pulling and it seems to work like a dream.  I like to keep people on their toes so I ninja pull.  The only time I have ever ran into obstacles with this is when I was grouped with an enchanter that tried to tell me that finishing the HO myself did nothing to help my agro.  Except he said it like "y 4 r u worried i NOW when I can 4 nuke!"  Or some other gibberish, he was quickly disbanded by our groups cleric and we picked up someone who could better annunciate his thoughts.</DIV>

Hagginsb
12-10-2004, 12:00 AM
<blockquote><hr>EDGEY wrote:Tainted Caress - or any ranged attack(Righteous Anger), I prefer the de-buff</P><hr></blockquote>I was under the impression that tained caress does nothing more than give you a chance to get the reg needed to summon our useless pet, not a debuff. If so, and unless you actually use the pet, I would not bother casting it to pull since it would be a waste of power.

Poena_De
12-10-2004, 12:07 AM
<DIV>The spell actually has three uses.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  Ranged attack that you can pull with.</DIV> <DIV>2.  Agility debuff (was informed of that last night).</DIV> <DIV>3.  Creates sellable item (good for funding food and drink if nothing else).</DIV>

WuphonsReach
12-10-2004, 02:31 AM
That's the same method I've found that most SKs are using (and that I've been preaching on the boards for a week or two). With a good group, you don't even have to cast anything else after the initial pull (maybe a DoF now and then) and you'll never lose your initial aggro.The downside is that it means the SK (or main tank) ends up as puller, rather then letting some other class do it. Doesn't seem to be a big deal in EQ2 since we're not doing FD-pulling, or otherwise trying to split spawns. I prefer to announce pulls. On hard pulls, I ask the cleric for BoV first (and if we're hunting in a bad area, BoV before pull becomes standard issue). The bigger advantage of BoV pre-pull is that I know the cleric has me targeted properly and they're ready for a pull.

Omegafoxx
12-10-2004, 02:37 AM
<DIV>Ive never had problems holding agro... I dont do all those steps though.. i think i skip the HO at the start. I just shout+ taunt every time i pull and im fine, i only lose agro when silly players dont listen to the "assist" portion of my macro.</DIV>

Hagginsb
12-10-2004, 05:30 AM
I agree with Wuph in that I think the "problem" with taunt isn't with the class but rather with your group members. It is really something that the casters need to learn to do: not cast right away. Its much like if you were to pull 30 mobs and complain that the priest can't heal you fast enough. In eq1 I played a shaman from initial release till about the release of SOL. I can distinctly remember lvling up I had to learn when it was safe to heal/slow/dot etc... Eventually I had feel for it and knew when I could cast and not gain aggro. I assume that most people on this forum are either close to their 20's, in the 20's, or somewhere in the 30's. Right now alot of people are learning how to play their class and I think using the HO pulling method is a good way to train the casters.

Deadjest
12-10-2004, 07:22 PM
<DIV>Heh so far I have found my biggest problems are the Nuking Class's.   Some who have finely learned what a Assist key is think soon as target appears, fire away.    Last night I was going through targets real quick on a big pull and for just a moment I had a mob out of camp targeted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So out of 5 mobs in camp, the Wazard toss's a Nuke and hits a big mob out of camp and wipe is the word.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So far my MO for pulling has been, Anger, Shout, Cry of Conviction (bah at 22 forgot the name of the other AoE I use with it) which so far has worked perfect on large pulls, then inflame and dot for the mob I am on.  DoF I consider a given.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love the AEs for big pulls, cause the areas I fight in there are no greys mobs safely walking around to worry about aggroing and if they are of XP value they are already in camp and not to drop me a post card.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But i pull and MT alot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I will start looking into what you guys have come up with now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I really dont think SK agro is a Issue, I think a post might have to be made for all the non tanks out there on HOW NOT TO GET AGRO.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQL players have it for the most part have agro down pat from the get go but there are alot of new people who have never delt with the agro consepts in this game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Haruchai</DIV> <DIV>22 Shadow Knight</DIV> <DIV>HighKeep</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Poena_De
12-10-2004, 07:36 PM
<DIV>The bane of my existence seems to be Berserkers, no matter how much I taunt they seem to always be able to pull agro even when not doing skills.  Is it just me or are they the new ranger?</DIV>

ridg
12-10-2004, 08:26 PM
<DIV>ZOMG!! I posted a 5 bajillion page long post and I tried to use spell check and it poofed........I am sad</DIV><p>Message Edited by ridgey on <span class=date_text>12-10-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:27 AM</span>

WuphonsReach
12-10-2004, 08:33 PM
Always (and I mean always), copy your post into the clipboard before hitting submit. Unless it's something you don't mind retyping.

DUNN
12-10-2004, 10:37 PM
<DIV>Trying to MT with a Zerker is a wate of time, just give them your armor and let tem tank.  I wish there was a way to taunt off them cuz they get hit so fast and hard.  Really bad tanks if you ask me.  Only works if you have 2 healers to balnce the damage they take.  If they could only learn how to manage their Dps; but haven't found one that could yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is how i pull works for me when pulling with people that are trigger happy :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  Announce inc</DIV> <DIV>2.  Dot</DIV> <DIV>2. Start running back to group</DIV> <DIV>3. Grim Coil (you can cast while runnung)</DIV> <DIV>4. Decree of Decay if group </DIV> <DIV>5. Enflame (u should be by group by then and have a nice aggro established)</DIV> <DIV>6. Grave Embrace </DIV> <DIV>7.  Debuff</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Works well when pulling and hardly lose aggro except for  zerkers midway through fight. Sometimes though if fighting with peeps that are higher lvl than you; you will lose aggro to them.  Not your fault their aggro is much higher than you can do taunting.  I wouldn't recomend a group that is 3-4 lvls above you.  Their damage output is just to much.</DIV><p>Message Edited by DUNN on <span class=date_text>12-10-2004</span> <span class=time_text>04:08 PM</span>

Hagginsb
12-11-2004, 12:04 AM
I have only grouped with zerkers a couple times but I have noticed this as well...

Poena_De
12-11-2004, 12:06 AM
<DIV>A very large part of it is their rage abilites, to my knowledge all of their big damage zerker abilites use something called bloodrage.  This consumes some of their hitpoints and greatly increases their damage but also exponentially increases their agro....</DIV>

RogueS
12-11-2004, 12:45 AM
<DIV>1.  Ranged Attack</DIV> <DIV>2.  Inflame / Shout when mobs gets close enough</DIV> <DIV>3.  Shield bash</DIV> <DIV>4.  Other players join in</DIV> <DIV>5.  Ward</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then Ward every chance I get and an occassional taunt and sheild bash   and I almost never lose aggro</DIV><p>Message Edited by RogueSun on <span class=date_text>12-10-2004</span> <span class=time_text>01:45 PM</span>

EDG
12-11-2004, 12:54 AM
<DIV>The point of this thread was to point out that completing a SOLO HO while grouped creates such a significant amount of hate that you practically never lose aggro.</DIV>

Jaggid
12-11-2004, 02:57 AM
<DIV>I do not lose agro when using my taunts and AE spells, AE is not really option everywhere, but so far it works great.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In most groups I have no issues with just using taunt, unless somone is nuking like crazy,</DIV>

WuphonsReach
12-11-2004, 03:22 AM
I'm from the school of thought that I try to *never* cast taunt/shout after the initial pull, saving it for when things go wrong and I need to bump my aggro *now*. Instead, I rely on Unyielding Advance, Demonstration of Faith, AoE spells to build aggro through the fight. DoF is nice because it ticks all the mobs off, even mezzed ones.The players that I group with regularly are quite used to this level of aggro and aren't playing "race up the aggro ladder".

Omegafoxx
12-11-2004, 07:18 AM
<DIV>I have to agree, Zerkers are hate mongers. I was grouping in varsoon today for afew hours,doing everything the same, we needed a new dps, got a zerker, now, every 2 or 3 fights i gotta go tuant crazy cause zerker has mob on him. I think their spells grab a little too much hate over time, or us tanks not enough heh.</DIV>

ChrisRay
12-11-2004, 05:35 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Deadjester wrote:<BR> <DIV>Heh so far I have found my biggest problems are the Nuking Class's.   Some who have finely learned what a Assist key is think soon as target appears, fire away.    Last night I was going through targets real quick on a big pull and for just a moment I had a mob out of camp targeted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So out of 5 mobs in camp, the Wazard toss's a Nuke and hits a big mob out of camp and wipe is the word.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So far my MO for pulling has been, Anger, Shout, Cry of Conviction (bah at 22 forgot the name of the other AoE I use with it) which so far has worked perfect on large pulls, then inflame and dot for the mob I am on.  DoF I consider a given.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love the AEs for big pulls, cause the areas I fight in there are no greys mobs safely walking around to worry about aggroing and if they are of XP value they are already in camp and not to drop me a post card.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But i pull and MT alot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I will start looking into what you guys have come up with now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I really dont think SK agro is a Issue, I think a post might have to be made for all the non tanks out there on HOW NOT TO GET AGRO.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQL players have it for the most part have agro down pat from the get go but there are alot of new people who have never delt with the agro consepts in this game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Haruchai</DIV> <DIV>22 Shadow Knight</DIV> <DIV>HighKeep</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is a bloody really irritating thing when it comes to nuking class. Especially summoners. I have found some casters think it's their freaken class role to pull off a single orc and solo them while the rest of the group engages the encounter. Sometimes I really wish group exp debts werent shared.</P> <P><BR> </P>

EDG
12-31-2004, 10:59 PM
<DIV>It seems the "I'm losing aggro, how do i change that?" threads are popping up again, thought I'd bump this for those that might need the info.  If you're higher level, use the replacement spells.</DIV>

megatra
01-03-2005, 05:48 PM
<DIV>at level 29 this is how i am holding aggro. pulling with condemning spirits (followed by grim coil if i have time)... decree of decay upon arrival. charge to knock em down. grim coil if i havent used yet. painbringer to weaken. after this i just hit them with whatever ... by then the aggro is pretty stable. with some mobs this is all that is needed to guarantee aggro the entire fight. when i'm up against higher level mobs sometimes i will need to use half my supply of power or more to keep aggro... and sometimes that isn't enough <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

Roland_Descha
01-03-2005, 06:50 PM
<DIV>aggro holding is indeed very easy with the ho, dof combo one of the biggest problems i've run into recently though are sks who are not mt who dont seem to use any of their secondary abilities to help the mt out.  towards this end our class has alot to offer with offensive buffs and defensive abilities and ac offerings and such.  These can be of vital importance particularly if your talking about tanking something thats much at a much higher lv than the tank. </DIV> <DIV>  I was in ts with a group hunting giants and griffons with another sk and a full group, while i was tanking the fights went very closely usually we'd pull it out but i was very into the red for health, when we switched up and the other sk pulled he barely got into any health but green, mind u we are the same lv and within 20 ac of each other.  I was like [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]???? so i took careful note of one of our battles and realized that i was using alot of our defensive spells that would help an mt while i was not tanking, but neither myself nor he were using them while i was mt, since then i have seen quite a few sks muck up our skills and abilities, we are an awesome class that has alot to offer from any position in group (within reason of course we will never be healers, except for this one time...)</DIV>

Roland_Descha
01-03-2005, 06:50 PM
<DIV>that was so deliberate</DIV><p>Message Edited by Roland_Deschain on <span class=date_text>01-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:51 AM</span>

WuphonsReach
01-03-2005, 10:54 PM
You get a big aggro boost from completing the initial HO. It's very important to get that HO off at the start of the fight and for other folks to allow you time to do so (if possible, barring emergency heals).Single mobs, I pull (at max range) using Tainted Caress, start my HO, and advance by spamming FG/CS/GC (usually *1* of those hits). Then tossing my Infernal Pact and completing with Inflame. After that I chain-cast FG/CS as soon as they refresh (very low power, high efficiency spells). If the healer is having mana issues, I chain cast Infernal Pact as well. Rarely lose aggro with an experienced group and my mana stays manageable.Multiple mobs, I pull with FG/CS/GC at max range. As the mobs run towards me, Infernal Pact, then start my HO and advance with FG/CS/GC. Complete with Decree of Decay and then hit both of my AoE attacks. Rest of the fight involves CS/FG chaining on the first few, also chaining Infernal Pact. If there are 3+ mobs left when the AoE attacks are ready again, I fire those off again.I tend to group with another SK regularly. Whoever is the secondary tank is responsible for keeping the group buffed with Unholy Order as well as loaning AC to the primary tank using Offering of Armament. Both are 3 minute timers and make for 2 less things that the MA has to keep track of. (We use Vigor of Trust on ourselves.)

Roland_Descha
01-04-2005, 12:09 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WuphonsReach wrote:<BR>You get a big aggro boost from completing the initial HO. It's very important to get that HO off at the start of the fight and for other folks to allow you time to do so (if possible, barring emergency heals).<BR><BR>Single mobs, I pull (at max range) using Tainted Caress, start my HO, and advance by spamming FG/CS/GC (usually *1* of those hits). Then tossing my Infernal Pact and completing with Inflame. After that I chain-cast FG/CS as soon as they refresh (very low power, high efficiency spells). If the healer is having mana issues, I chain cast Infernal Pact as well. Rarely lose aggro with an experienced group and my mana stays manageable.<BR><BR>Multiple mobs, I pull with FG/CS/GC at max range. As the mobs run towards me, Infernal Pact, then start my HO and advance with FG/CS/GC. Complete with Decree of Decay and then hit both of my AoE attacks. Rest of the fight involves CS/FG chaining on the first few, also chaining Infernal Pact. If there are 3+ mobs left when the AoE attacks are ready again, I fire those off again.<BR><BR>I tend to group with another SK regularly. Whoever is the <FONT size=4>secondary tank is responsible for keeping the group buffed with Unholy Order as well as loaning AC to the primary tank using Offering of Armament</FONT>. Both are 3 minute timers and make for 2 less things that the MA has to keep track of. (We use Vigor of Trust on ourselves.)<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>OMG there needs to be a passage on this in the sk Bible or something, this cannot be emphasized enough. also what are some of yalls thoughts on why we dont have more ae taunts? this would seem to help greatly as far as our class just being designed to hold a group aggro, while the ho, taunt, dof method works very well any class can do that essentially wheres our tank specific stuff??<BR>

Bondu
01-04-2005, 08:05 PM
<DIV>I always cast UO after aggroing the mob, it really ticks them off if you buff your grp while in combat.</DIV>

Ne
01-04-2005, 09:34 PM
<DIV>Keeping aggro against single mobs is no problem at all, just get a decent version of inflame. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only problem can be to keep aggro through the whole fight against 4+ mobs since we only have one area taunt. In this case Infernal Pact/Demonstration of Faith is your best friend. Warding yourself (or buffing the group) generates hate from everyone in the encounter as well as delaying the need for heals somewhat... on top of that, it is safe to use in all situations. If it is not confirmed that completing a HO generates additional hate, my guess is that self warding is the key action used in the initial post to establish good hate. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only problem is maintaining aggro together with a low level zerker... if he is equal lvl its better to let him tank and assist with armour/buffs/damage instead to spare the healer some confusion...  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Nedo on <span class=date_text>01-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:35 AM</span>