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View Full Version : A Serious Question about SK Taunt


Adria
12-09-2004, 07:37 PM
<DIV>First off, I know there have been 100's of posts about taunting, and most of you are sick of hearing it, but I need a definitive answer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm a 22.5 SK on AB and have been having some serious problems with the taunt commands. I currently have App3 Taunt & Shout and App1 Inflame. In full rooms with multiple mobs, I usually use Righteous Anger to pull (as a Warrior would use his bow), then hit Shout to aggro the mob. When I can safely move close enough to a mob, I will not use the above pull technique, and just use the Shout command.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last night, as usual, multiple times I have tried to gain aggro, the Mobs have run straight to the Healer or Mage of the group. I had a long conversation with a 22+ Warlock about how area heals & chain nukes cause the mobs to ignore my taunt and aggro the less armored DPS / healers. I was told that that is not the case and that I was either doing something wrong, or that my App3 wasn't cutting the high level mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I saw patch notes last week about how taunting was upgraded and I took that as a good sign. I have not been able to locate Inflame App3 or and Adept Taunting scroll for me to upgrade and test out why I'm having difficulty gaining / regaining aggro. I realize that SKs aren't supposed to take on the role of MT and that they are really an assist class. Still, I love my toon and would never change from being and SK. I will work around this if I cannot find the answer I need.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can someone please tell me if I'm doing something wrong, or if any Devs have documented statements about SK Taunting abilities. It seems to me that SKs have about 60% of the taunt accuracy/ability that a warrior class has. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adriaus</DIV>

Thras
12-09-2004, 07:44 PM
<DIV>Well since its a "serious" quest about taunt....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok nvm..i'm not a SK yet so I cant give you any serious answers. But I will give you a bump.</DIV>

Kanfo
12-09-2004, 07:50 PM
A couple of things that help with taunt:First, inform your group not to attack for a few seconds after you've pulled. If they let you get off both inflame and shout (or inflame and Decree.) Life gets much easier.After your group has engaged, use Unholy Order (Call to Arms) to cement your aggro. Group buffs cause an inordinately large amount of aggro, so it can help keep the mobs attention on you.Use a mix of your regular taunts, unstoppable advance (remember it's got a taunt?) charge (stuns taunt lots!) and HO's (If your group can handle them) to maintain aggro during a fight.

Adria
12-09-2004, 07:57 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kanfoxy wrote:<BR>A couple of things that help with taunt:<BR><BR>First, inform your group not to attack for a few seconds after you've pulled. If they let you get off both inflame and shout (or inflame and Decree.) Life gets much easier.<BR><BR>After your group has engaged, use Unholy Order (Call to Arms) to cement your aggro. Group buffs cause an inordinately large amount of aggro, so it can help keep the mobs attention on you.<BR><BR>Use a mix of your regular taunts, unstoppable advance (remember it's got a taunt?) charge (stuns taunt lots!) and HO's (If your group can handle them) to maintain aggro during a fight.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Unholy Order is a great idea. I usually do this before pulling aggro. I'll definitly try this and the others you've mentioned.<BR>

Saev
12-09-2004, 08:09 PM
<DIV>Kill a few more mobs and get Decree of Decay at 22.6. I'm now at 22.7 (vast experience, hehe) and it seems to work far better than Shout. I had actually stopped using Shout, and was using combinations of Inflame (targeting each mob in turn) and AE attacks to hold group agro. I hadn't tried Call to Arms, but I'll keep that in mind. </DIV>

Drfeelgood0
12-09-2004, 08:32 PM
<DIV>Hi, i play also a SK lvl 22 currently and most of the time I m MT in groups ; I never problem holding aggro ( either in FG or E. Drains ) and use the same spells than you, i pull with righteous anger then when the group of mobs come for me, I use shout and that works fine this way . </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the mobs come straight for the healer or casters, thats because either they ward you while encounter is already engaged or because the caster start with a massive nuke , in both cases, they're wrong. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not even sure I have upgraded shout to apps 3 -)))</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Generally with a group of yellow mobs , I use Knight stance adept 1 before to pull , so less dmg but more chance to block so less heals at beginning of the fight + ward to buffer dmg b4 fight. During fight I use also inflame, charge and unyelding to keep mob on me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Cyf
12-09-2004, 08:47 PM
<DIV>Yup get a ward before you engage can save yourself a lot of trouble. It's instant aggro for the caster normally. I'm the MT in my regular hunting party (lvl 24 atm) when I see the ward hit me I use this as a sign the healers are ready and I promptly hit something.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally I always aggro with an attack, this saves a single or multiple taunt for when the fight kicks off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Call to Arms / Unholy order: Thats a nice idea, never thought of that, will test it tonight see if it has much effect... Should also be the same for demonstration of faith...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Knight Stance is a permanent buff btw, it last 12 hours or something, just cast it when you group up.</DIV>

Cyf
12-09-2004, 08:50 PM
<DIV>Another point: If the levels of the people you are grouping with are higher this does have an effect on taunting. I find more than 2 or 3 levels higher and aggro can be really tough to regain once gone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not sure if this is documented but though my own experience I'm fairly convinced.</DIV>

WuphonsReach
12-09-2004, 08:59 PM
As the MA, I always use shield+1H and keep my Knight's Stance buff up (it's a 12 hour timer, which is nice).The rest of the issues with aggro are simply because you're not locking it in at the start of the fight *plus* the group is not working with you to keep from pulling aggro off. The easiest and most effective method of aggro control happens during the first 3-5 seconds of the fight (the "pull" phase). Get the pull right, and everything else is easy.1. If you're about to pull something nasty, have the priest drop BoV (Blessing of Vitae?) on you. It's a reactive heal buff that lasts 45 seconds. As soon as that lands, cast your Demonstration of Faith on yourself (15 sec).2. Announce the pull. Use a hotkey. Don't be shy about caps. Keep it short and to the point. This lets folks know to hold off on any buff spells they might be considering (or damage shields).3. Pull with Righteous Anger. It's got the range and it's pretty much our only pulling method.4. As the mobs run towards you, start your HO. Advance it when the mobs arrive.5. Complete the HO with either taunt or shout or inflame. (Use shout if there are multiple mobs.)6. *Now* the rest of the group should begin their attacks once the HO wheel *vanishes*.7. Ward yourself through the fight. It's a good multi-mob aggro tool (as good as Shout). Save your taunt/shout for problem situations (keep it in reserve). I generally cast very little during a fight other then my DoF ward. The pull usually sucks a full bubble of mana, and most exp fights only require everyone to expend a full bubble of mana. If the healer is dropping mana faster, I do more DoFs. If the Enchanter is dropping mana fast, I'll toss some extra damage in to reduce the number of mobs that need to stay mezzed. I don't really care if the scout/mage is spending all of their mana on a fight.At level 21, I usually group with a 22 assassin and 23 inquisitor. Sometimes as the MA, sometimes I'm SA to a 22 SK. We add other damage dealers depending on who's around. The core team (SKs+inquisitor+assasin) have gotten very used to me expending a minimum of aggro per fight and we all have a good feel for where the "tipping point" is.Sometimes the assassin pulls aggro. I use Inflame and then being chain-casting DoF on him (just by targeting the mob). This only happens maybe 1 in 20-50 fights. Maybe I missed my Inflame cast at the start of the fight, or the mob blocked my HO wheel, or he simply did too much damage too soon.Any time that the mobs head straight for someone else on incoming is because that person didn't pay attention to the "black out period" during the pull. Usually my Shout will pull them back onto me before serious damage is done (or even DoF).

GreatReor
12-10-2004, 06:34 AM
<DIV>Edgey seems to have the problem sorted. I'm going to try it later but thought you may be interested in this as well</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=1523" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=1523</A></DIV>

TalinorColdwind
12-10-2004, 03:25 PM
<DIV><SPAN>Adriaus  First off stop using taunt use inflame it is the upgrade and has a higher agro to it. If  you are having problems holding agro and if you never want to lose agro again you have to go into def mode. Which means u put up knight stance which increases all your def stats ( which are dodge parry block and def rating&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />which you should be using a shield and 1 hander if you are playing mt. then buff yourself with your sk sta/str buff and then your proc buff. pull with either ritous anger like you have been or with your dot when mob comes in hit it with inflame then charge then unwielding blow keep the mob on his but and stuned and cast inflame and your aoe taunt when ever u can and u will never lose agro again I have held agro against players as far as 5 lvls higher then me. Yes I know you wont be doing much dmg but that is not your job as a mt your job is to hold agro. and your aoe taunt will not agro mobs out side the incounter. At 23 you will get a upgrade to shout so you wont ever have to use shout again and the upgrade adds a life tap proc to u as well. Oh and make sure in the hole process to use your dmg mitigation abilities as a SK like DoF and Toughness.</SPAN></DIV> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>Talinor Coldwind 24 troll SK</SPAN></P> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by TalinorColdwind on <span class=date_text>12-10-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:29 AM</span>

TalinorColdwind
12-10-2004, 03:25 PM
<DIV><SPAN>Oh one last thing remember 1 thing to hold agro isn't on how much dmg you can deal out it is on how much hate you can cause and hate is determined by different things like stuns and knockdowns cause more hate then a reg attack does i find dots has more hate the a nuke does and your taunts have the most hate in them then any attack can ever have. Oh and it doesn't matter when your grp starts to attack I have had casters hit it while i was bringing the mob in and by the time they get there 2nd cast off i already have taunt inflame and decrease decay which is my aoe taunt off which then there is no losing agro unless you do not taunt the intire fight after that then you will lose agro SK's even in offence mode wont out damage other classes we are made to be left standing not to deal mass dmg we deal steady and constant dmg.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN>Talinor Coldwind 24 Troll SK</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by TalinorColdwind on <SPAN class=date_text>12-10-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:28 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by TalinorColdwind on <span class=date_text>12-10-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:32 AM</span>

Vai
12-10-2004, 06:02 PM
<DIV>As Talinor suggested, think of it this way:  Use melee to keep up with aggro, use your combat arts/spells to get ahead. :smileywink:</DIV>

Adria
12-10-2004, 07:02 PM
<DIV>All great information.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I made it to the bottom of FG last night with the help of this post(and the amazing group I was in). I got Decree of Decay 1/2 way down. I've tried most of the items stated above and they have all helped out. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Things I was doing wrong:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1)  Was not using Knight's Stance - I have no idea why I wasn't.</DIV> <DIV>2)  Was trying to be the main dmg dealer instead of using the SK abilities to hold aggro.</DIV> <DIV>3)  Was only using taunt as a reaction to losing aggro after the initial time. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thnx for all the info, it was a much better experience last night and I'm out of debt =)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adriaus</DIV>

Deadjest
12-10-2004, 07:29 PM
<DIV>Depends on what you mean by mass dmg =)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was in a rare group that had 4 SKs, Shaman and Cleric recently, was very interesting seeing 8 AEs going off as soon as they reset on big pulls.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe this should be a different post but mulit SKs seem to have a nasty effect on big pulls, I am curious how this works out compaird to a meat and potatos group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Haruchai</DIV> <DIV>22 Shadow Knight</DIV> <DIV>HighKeep</DIV>

Kilo
12-11-2004, 03:32 AM
The thing is that Shout is absolutely useless unless you come into an Adept III+ of it, it gets so little agro that the mobs go off onto the healer very easily. This is the problem I'm currently having, Runnyeye has a ton of multiple mob encounters, and you really can't keep agro on them very well, unless I'm missing something.

Trystwy
12-11-2004, 08:07 AM
<DIV>Don't forget your feign ability - I know its on a relatively long retime, but if someone is getting badly chewed (really helpful for healers) then cast 'feign-death' on them (forget the new EQ2 name to the spell) it works a treat for getting aggro back - esp if you couple it in with a shield slam and a ward.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><Edit: the biggest issue I've had with maintaining aggro is lag. Stay online for a few hours and you get this memory-leak slowing everything down a lot - especially if you have to zone a few times. If you find you are lagging badly, then tell the grp so and relog into the game, otherwise every man and his dog will get aggro in the group before you can lock the mob in...</DIV><p>Message Edited by Trystwych on <span class=date_text>12-10-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:10 PM</span>

WuphonsReach
12-11-2004, 08:20 PM
The downside of the feign ability... it will cancel any maintained buffs that the player was responsible for. So feigning the healer might wipe a few hundred HP from everyone in the encounter (if they were the main buffer).(Definitely a memory leak in EQ2. I had been online selling all day, then went to Nek forest for a few hours. We were fine until we moved up the beach a bit and I hit an area with a lot of new models / players / textures. Check my memory in Task Manager and found that EQ2 had allocated over a GB of RAM.)