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Jarev
12-01-2004, 04:37 PM
<DIV>Hi, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me just start off by saying I'm a lot more cooled off about this than I was about a half hour ago. That being said, I have a question about Graven Embrace.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why is it able to be used against people not in your group? I can understand perhaps once in awhile a nice SK would try to use it to help someone, but more often than not, I doubt that's the case.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason I ask is this, I was harvesting in Nek Forest, had just found a Eventide Stone, I went to mine it, at around the same time a mounted SK was headed for this same node, I figure whatever I started mining first but we can share and it won't be an issue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then I collapse on the ground, with a number of powerful mobs around me that I nearly died to upon waking becaue they wandered over to investigate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the meantime the SK mined the whole stone and left.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I reported him as I think that that was harrassment, and though he did not repeat that same act again the time I was there. I was utterly furious that someone would be so rude.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So can anyone give me any good reasons why you can use this on random people not in your group? Hopefully one that outweighs the idea that this skill could very easily be used to grief other players? I think it should work how does fine and even be a little better in some ways, but I don't think it should be able to be used on anyone anytime the SK desires. That's really rude to me.</DIV>

Jaranna
12-01-2004, 07:00 PM
<DIV>I agree.  If the rez spells are group-only to prevent griefing, why is this spell not?  It seems to me that its only purpose is to be used in a group.</DIV>

Trebla
12-01-2004, 07:31 PM
<DIV>Spot on, saw someone in another forum threatening to use the spell to grief someone even.</DIV>

chaosang
12-01-2004, 08:27 PM
<DIV>this spell doesnt have to be used at all in group when you do your taunt job well, its more a fun and rp spell, i doubt 1second on the ground will do anyone any harm, since mobs think for that time that ure dead anyway. its a fun spell( go atonica and make random people naswer you where the merchants are and when they not, "kill" em). this spell cant be used on someone engaged, so the situations you had was kinda bad luck, and hey, its just a stone, theres more stones, how about you mine those in the time you wrote this essay, just a game, no reason to run to mummy when the big bad shadowknight stole you a stone. better go vote for a pvp server so you can kill people who annoy ya.</DIV><p>Message Edited by chaosangel on <span class=date_text>12-01-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:35 AM</span>

Tyd
12-01-2004, 09:35 PM
<DIV>Ohh poor Jarevin...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Imagine that same scenario, but instead of falling to the groupd for 7 seconds you teleport back to your home town - Because that is something a mage can do to you with one spell. Yeah it costs him a silver in material component, but how many gold clusters in Nek is that? 1/2...</DIV> <DIV>How much will that mage be able to harvest (or how much have you lost) on the 10 min run back to the forest?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, in relation to that, i find Graven Embrace nothing but a neusance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And btw: No mob will "become curious" and wander to you to check it out - you where in their path. Also, i have never died when harvesting in Nek, not even close - if you just run and hit sprint (i ride, which isnt as fast, but hey) you WILL sruvive, unless you are some lowlevel toon that shouldnt be there...</DIV>

Jarev
12-02-2004, 08:10 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tydde wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ohh poor Jarevin...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Imagine that same scenario, but instead of falling to the groupd for 7 seconds you teleport back to your home town - Because that is something a mage can do to you with one spell. Yeah it costs him a silver in material component, but how many gold clusters in Nek is that? 1/2...</DIV> <DIV>How much will that mage be able to harvest (or how much have you lost) on the 10 min run back to the forest?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, in relation to that, i find Graven Embrace nothing but a neusance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And btw: No mob will "become curious" and wander to you to check it out - you where in their path. Also, i have never died when harvesting in Nek, not even close - if you just run and hit sprint (i ride, which isnt as fast, but hey) you WILL sruvive, unless you are some lowlevel toon that shouldnt be there...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Thank you for your opinion, I didn't know there was a mage spell like that, again that's an extremely weird spell to be able to target whoever you want with (I know there is a priest spell that does something like what you were talking about which is what I think you might be thinking of, however the class isn't really an issue).</P> <P>I have to wonder really what is the purpose of those people who are mad that I think that this should be group only? Why must you be able to use it on someone not in your group? What purpose do you really have for that?</P> <P>I see no one who responded to me on this back up any of their opinions with any real reasons why someone would need to have this power available to use whenever they want.</P> <P>Feel free to disagree with me but please do so in a reasonable manner not oh poor Jarevin etc. Its really rather rude and uncalled for.</P> <P>I'm trying to make this a positive discussion about the power. Please take your feedback elsewhere if you don't want to contribute to a discussion about it. I'm just trying to find a real reason that this should be able to be used on anyone anywhere.</P>

Jarev
12-02-2004, 08:14 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> chaosangel wrote:<BR> <DIV>this spell doesnt have to be used at all in group when you do your taunt job well, its more a fun and rp spell, i doubt 1second on the ground will do anyone any harm, since mobs think for that time that ure dead anyway. its a fun spell( go atonica and make random people naswer you where the merchants are and when they not, "kill" em). this spell cant be used on someone engaged, so the situations you had was kinda bad luck, and hey, its just a stone, theres more stones, how about you mine those in the time you wrote this essay, just a game, no reason to run to mummy when the big bad shadowknight stole you a stone. better go vote for a pvp server so you can kill people who annoy ya.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by chaosangel on <SPAN class=date_text>12-01-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:35 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>In response to this I say that 1 second on the ground wouldn't really matter if A) It was only one second and B) It always worked. I have seen this spell cast and a mob still attack the "dead" person before. So in that scenario it could still be used that way.</P> <P>Its not really about being annoyed, its about an honest question as to what is the actual purpose this spell has in being non group restricted. I agree in particular that my situation was bad luck, but that doesn't mean someone could want to set someone up with the spell.</P> <P>Terrorizing people by "killing them" just for fun isn't really fun if you are the one being killed, I guess some people would find that amusing to do to others I just really don't understand it.</P> <P>Anyway as always things are different for different people.</P>

EDG
12-02-2004, 11:04 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jarevin wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>I have to wonder really what is the purpose of those people who are mad that I think that this should be group only? Why must you be able to use it on someone not in your group? What purpose do you really have for that?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>As Shadwknight's we are servant's of evil, ..should another evil player cry out for help (and isn't grouped with us), and it could beneift us to help them, it'd be easy enough for us to FD them, pull aggro, and save their life.  Yes, I actually have done this.  I saw a level 12 Pred wandering out by the Bloodskulls, a boss Orc spotted him, he cried out for help, but we all know how large the "orc area" is, he couldn't sprint fast enough...  so I FD'd him, pulled aggro onto myself, destroyed all the orcs, and the boss.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also..  if someone is running from a mob, and calls for help, it's hard for us to get within range to cast a spell to pull aggro from them, some of our spells require us to be standing.  If we FD them, they stop dead in the tracks, and so do the bad guys.</DIV>

Shadame
12-03-2004, 12:28 AM
Hey Indara, if you ever need a hand collecting things, I'd be more than happy to lend my skills if you have further problem with people.just gimme a tell IG.

Anash
12-03-2004, 01:26 AM
<DIV>Hey Indara thanks for that adept3 last night ! you need to catch up to my adventure level, I got a new skill last night and I need a app3 for it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think that since you can't rez people in your group, you shoulddn't be able to FD someone not in your group, mainly because of these types of circumstances, the internet is full griefers.</DIV>

ValonMorid
12-03-2004, 01:38 AM
I have saved countless ppl (ohh ok not countless but alot) with my Graven Embrace spell, most of them not in group. But I can see how some ppl might exploit it.

ChaosImbu
12-03-2004, 02:48 AM
Graven Embrace's only real function is griefing. Rescue is a far superior method of saving a healer or an over zealous group member...and problems like that generally only pop up a couple times an hour. (If you are having consistent issues with aggro, talk to your group or find a new one...or taunt more.)Graven Embrace is great for:<UL><LI>Griefing the guy who is about to pull the mob you want.<LI>Griefing the guy who is about to harvest the resource you want.<LI>Scaring a newbie.<LI>Griefing the guy who is talking smack.<LI>Stopping the guy who is training away the uber mob you want to kill. (Actually did this to stop some guy from training Gustfeather away one night, since I wanted a Stormshield. Surprisingly enough, he thanked me.)</UL>I don't like the fact that anyone in the group can GE at any time. There should be a group option that says "leader only" or something. Had a group where we wiped because a trigger happy SK popped off a GE, thinking he was saving the healer. Only he had the mob targeted, which had me targeted (as main tank), meaning I ate the GE and lost aggro.

ChaosImbu
12-03-2004, 02:49 AM
Oh yeah, Graven Embrace also wipes illusions, so if you see one of those annoying little Scorpager [Removed for Content], you can pop off a GE and wipe that cuteness right outta existance.

cocoa_boy
12-03-2004, 09:50 AM
<DIV>Wow. This post really irritates me! We should not have the ability to GE someone against their will. The spell should be relegated to group or at the very least (when not grouped) generate an option box, allowing the player cast upon to decide whether or not they want to be GE'd. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you would like help in Nek, Indara, I'll be happy to escort you. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Grindtoof 22 SK trull.</DIV>

Drax
12-03-2004, 10:52 AM
<DIV>As far as Feign Death outside of group, I'm going to have to say the benefits outweight the downside.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Theres ways SOE could fix this however without making it abusable like that, which is utterly rediculous that someone did that to you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've saved many adventurers with Feign Death by telling them to yell and then feigning them. I would be very dissapointed if this ability was removed, as a Shadowknight its part of my duty to keep us evils safe from disaster <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. However, adding it into the agreement that feigning to get harvesting or other harassments should be an offense. Or better yet, when mining it should 'lock the encounter' for 10 seconds for the group. Making it impossible to cast spells on them such as Feign Death, teleport, etc. If they walk away and dont mine the node, the encounter breaks (much like the new temporary encounter when yelling for help). This would solve ALL node stealing in all its forms, including walking up and mining. First one to get there is gunna get the whole thing, how it SHOULD be. And not even trying to mine a chunk or two from them, feigning them, or teleporting them will be able to interfere with what is rightfully theres.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as "fun uses" of feign death, I have people try to jump over my horse back and forth all day long. I use Feign death in those scenarios as well on them, but I'd never do it to cause them harm or abuse them. They can jump over my horse, I can knock them down =). I've never used this in a dangerous zone before though, mainly when im in crossroads and people start harassing me because I have a horse. Dunno why, but I'm NOT a hurdle, and opening your trade window with me and asking me for silver doesnt mean I have any just because I have a 14silver unholy steed spell <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Teleport i see no 'fun use' for. Thats just flat out irritating to have someone teleport you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all, making mining/foresting/gathering etc a temporary encounter is something that should have been done from the get go. I apologize that someone did that to you, it's rediculous. Not all SK's are like that.</DIV>

The_Pumpk
12-03-2004, 12:29 PM
<DIV>Dont try and steal his harvest then...It's people like you that make people grief others.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said...GE has a place outside the group like the others said and that is to save them when they are in danger of dying.Just because you tried to steal some of an sk's harvest and he embarassed you doesn't mean all sk's will do that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Jarev
12-03-2004, 02:09 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> The_Pumpkin wrote:<BR> <DIV>Dont try and steal his harvest then...It's people like you that make people grief others.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said...GE has a place outside the group like the others said and that is to save them when they are in danger of dying.Just because you tried to steal some of an sk's harvest and he embarassed you doesn't mean all sk's will do that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I love how just because you are a SK that you believe that it was that SKs harvest, you must have missed the part where I mentioned I was mining and then he did this. If you are going to respond to my post and talk about what I did and didn't do please take the time to read what I wrote so that you don't just come across sounding like you don't know what you are talking about.</P> <P>That said...</P> <P>Thank you Shadamehr and Fearlin I appreciate the offers of help and thanks, its good to see that not everyone who plays SKs are rude </P> <P>I think perhaps a good alternative to this would be to have a confirmation window for those people not in groups that as a player one could decide to turn on or off. That way if you wished to be able to be knocked out by any SK who is feeling benevolent you can have that option but for those of us who don't want to have it used on us to give 12 year olds a power trip can turn it off.</P> <P>Something like that would allow nice SKs the ability to still help those that want it, and would take away the griefer SKs toys for messing with other people.<BR></P>

The_Pumpk
12-03-2004, 03:50 PM
<DIV>Oh my bad...maybe he just zapped you because you are annoying.I hate people that try to get other classes changed because they dont like something about it.Heres an idea...how bout you become an SK before you [Removed for Content] and moan about one there abilities and try get it changed.Maybe you would get a little more respect that way.Have a nice day.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Jarev
12-03-2004, 08:11 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> The_Pumpkin wrote:<BR> <DIV>Oh my bad...maybe he just zapped you because you are annoying.I hate people that try to get other classes changed because they dont like something about it.Heres an idea...how bout you become an SK before you [Removed for Content] and moan about one there abilities and try get it changed.Maybe you would get a little more respect that way.Have a nice day.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I play an 18 Crusader going for SK so it is still an issue that would effect me, again clearly you like to talk before knowing any real facts. If you find me annoying don't read threads I post, please feel free to block me etc, I won't miss your feedback when its delivered in such a fashion, as you haven't backed up anything you've said with a real fact as to why it shouldln't be group only based I see that you have no real reason and are just trolling around the thread.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Feel free to move on if you find me annoying, I'm trying to have a discussion about a power that I think is a tool to grief people in its current form. Clearly you are not upset by that and that's fine, I'll continue to "[Removed for Content] and moan" as you say but I don't really think my attitude has come across that way at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only person being that rude really at this point is you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will have a wonderful day thank you very much, I hope you do the same. Thanks for your opinion please drive through.</DIV>

WuphonsReach
12-03-2004, 08:24 PM
Bottom line... since GE can be used for griefing, it *will* be used for griefing.Therefore, I fully expect the developers to change it in some way or fashion. So I won't be surprised when they do. (My guess is that they'll make it so that it only works on group members, just like they recently changed the revive spell.)

Jarev
12-03-2004, 08:28 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WuphonsReach wrote:<BR>Bottom line... since GE can be used for griefing, it *will* be used for griefing.<BR><BR>Therefore, I fully expect the developers to change it in some way or fashion. So I won't be surprised when they do. (My guess is that they'll make it so that it only works on group members, just like they recently changed the revive spell.)<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I personally feel like that is a completely reasonable course of action. I have never seen anyone use the transportation spell in the manner an above person posted but I'm sure that will get looked at as well.</P> <P>Yes some of these abilities can be used for good, but for many people the good is weighed out by the bad.</P>

Lee
12-03-2004, 09:09 PM
I, personnaly, despise any shadow knights using this wonderful ability to grief other people ...What is Graven embrace for me :- A ->very<-- useful tool when grouped : When someone, for any reasons, has drawn unwanted aggro (bad repops ?), GE *will* save lives and possibly the entire group if this person is the cleric or the enchanter. I'm really happy to know that, according to Mr "ChaosImbued", rescue is a far superior tool to regain aggro but .. as far as I know this is not a shadowknight option.-A ->very<-- useful tool but moreover a cool and "fun" spell when I'm not grouped: As it has been previously described, GE allows the SK to "kill"it's target aggro which is fine to handle some bad trains (nektulos, anyone ?). But moreover, GE is a very fun toy to play with.I recently had an ogre badly stepping on my delicate elven toes in Fallen Gate entrance, adding that I should be considered lucky to not be eaten by him. I responded that HE was lucky that I did not kill him. The ogre taunting me to do so .. he ate the dust a few seconds later ^_^I just wanted to state that GE is to me one of the spells that adds so much to the Everquest "feel". Yes, it seems that it can be abused and really I find people doing this selfish and just horrible.I can only think to so many EQ1 "fun" spells which were nerfed to uselessness because of this kind of attitude: Voice graft (on npcs ^^), Minor Illusion (heavy target restriction), the whole "Invert gravity"spell line.Please don't reiterate the same errors and don't drive Everquest 2 to transform in a world as blend as everquest 1 has become.Adea, High-Elven Shadowknight.P.S: reviving group-only is supposed to only be a "quick fix", waiting for a confirmation box implementation. If revive stays this way, Bleh ...

Amulon20
12-03-2004, 11:11 PM
<DIV>Sorry to say, but reading your post really cracked me up. I probably would of been a bit miffed as well, but as long as I was alive and nothing happened would of shrugged it off.. unless he kept doing it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One time is funny...more than that is grief IMO. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said, I would of loved to see it!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Amulon</DIV>

Bellic
12-03-2004, 11:48 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jarevin wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hi, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me just start off by saying I'm a lot more cooled off about this than I was about a half hour ago. That being said, I have a question about Graven Embrace.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why is it able to be used against people not in your group? I can understand perhaps once in awhile a nice SK would try to use it to help someone, but more often than not, I doubt that's the case.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason I ask is this, I was harvesting in Nek Forest, had just found a Eventide Stone, I went to mine it, at around the same time a mounted SK was headed for this same node, I figure whatever I started mining first but we can share and it won't be an issue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then I collapse on the ground, with a number of powerful mobs around me that I nearly died to upon waking becaue they wandered over to investigate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the meantime the SK mined the whole stone and left.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I reported him as I think that that was harrassment, and though he did not repeat that same act again the time I was there. I was utterly furious that someone would be so rude.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So can anyone give me any good reasons why you can use this on random people not in your group? Hopefully one that outweighs the idea that this skill could very easily be used to grief other players? I think it should work how does fine and even be a little better in some ways, but I don't think it should be able to be used on anyone anytime the SK desires. That's really rude to me.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>How is this a Graven embrace issue?</P> <P>WAAA WAA i want my baa baa!!!!</P> <P> </P> <P>It sounds like a personal issue between you and this ONE Shadow Knight. Now I do use GE on random people when they are rude to me just because I can and it's funny. I have only used it on 2 people btw.  For instance this lvl 26 Zerker had the same last name as me and I was playing with the guy and he thought he was uber cause he was 4 lvls higher than me and in our server "uber" guild even though they are all EQ 1 drop outs lol .... anyway I casted GE on him.. Made my E pee pee bigger and I told the funny story to my guild. I expect SOE to nerf this soon because that's what they do best: Make something cool then eff it up.<BR></P>

Jarev
12-04-2004, 12:50 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bellicus wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> anyway I casted GE on him.. Made my E pee pee bigger and I told the funny story to my guild. I expect SOE to nerf this soon because that's what they do best: Make something cool then eff it up.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>This is a perfect example of the type of attitude that makes it an issue, I'm glad there are reasonable people who can see that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sorry that you feel that not being able to knock down the other kids in the sandbox is a huge nerf that will ruin your fun.</DIV>

Bellic
12-04-2004, 01:17 AM
<DIV>come on now don't take what I siad out of context. . i didn't grief they guy he gave me an attitude over something lame so since we can not duel like in EQ 1 or SWG I did the next best thing. No harm done. I would never do to someone what happened to this guy. That's wrong but all this thread is, is some guy whining because he lost the mining.</DIV>

Tyd
12-04-2004, 04:16 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jarevin wrote:<BR> <P>I see no one who responded to me on this back up any of their opinions with any real reasons why someone would need to have this power available to use whenever they want.<BR> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's 3 little whys:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im standing in the streetcorner, in my usual thug:ish manner. Watching the refugees arriving to FP... This all-so intelligent Erudite runs passed me, looking like im dirt - guess what? Now he's face is covered in it...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Riding across my newly conquered planes in Thundering Steppes, and this fairyloving paladin rides passed me, not even noticing me... Guess what? yes, his horse disapeares and he lands face down in the mud. Wee hii! Indirect PvP.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This group of Qeynosians are about to pull some nasty mob, Just when the tank is about to pull i trip (Graven Embrace) the good 'ol Templar, whoopie - all those buffs are gone on the whole group, and the Paladin is without a healer for 10sec - good luck goodie-two-shoes! (needs to be done before the encounter is locked - before attacks are made)</DIV> <DIV>=================================================</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well in the end, this just shows in how many ways the spell(s) can be missused and abused. Even though i really enjoy example #1 (alot!). Its even more fun than hunting...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So i will have to agree with you... "Group only" for all these spells (Graven Embrace and Odyssey are the ones i know about).</DIV>

Corvid
12-06-2004, 11:21 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChaosImbued wrote:<BR>Graven Embrace's only real function is griefing. Rescue is a far superior method of saving a healer or an over zealous group member...and problems like that generally only pop up a couple times an hour. (If you are having consistent issues with aggro, talk to your group or find a new one...or taunt more.)<BR><BR>Graven Embrace is great for:<BR> <UL><BR> <LI>Griefing the guy who is about to pull the mob you want.<BR> <LI>Griefing the guy who is about to harvest the resource you want.<BR> <LI>Scaring a newbie.<BR> <LI>Griefing the guy who is talking smack.<BR> <LI>Stopping the guy who is training away the uber mob you want to kill. (Actually did this to stop some guy from training Gustfeather away one night, since I wanted a Stormshield. Surprisingly enough, he thanked me.)<BR></LI></UL><BR><BR>I don't like the fact that anyone in the group can GE at any time. There should be a group option that says "leader only" or something. Had a group where we wiped because a trigger happy SK popped off a GE, thinking he was saving the healer. Only he had the mob targeted, which had me targeted (as main tank), meaning I ate the GE and lost aggro.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>As for the sk feigning the guy trying to mine, yeah that was griefing.  To bad a GM wasn't standing behind you to pop a temp ban on him.  </FONT></P> <P>As for rescue being far superior to GE?!?!?  Have you actually used that thing?  I've tried it at least a dozen times myself and had 0 effect yet.  Not a flinch, not so much as a freakin riposte, because I was still looking at the mobs butt.  GE on the other hand, POP, my aggro again.  Every time not a failure yet.  GE has become my personal group member training tool.  I generate a good deal of aggro, that's my job and i'm good at it.  Folks are still going to screw up and crazy things are going to happen though, that's what GE is for.  You nuked to hard?  smack down, my aggro again.  You over taunted over healed or just plain did something else wrong, smack and it's my aggro again.  Rescue on the other hand has yet to do anything at all other than make a pretty sparkly over the mobs head.  It's got about 1 more day of playing with it, then gets deleted off my hotkey bar to make room for something more useful, like a sit button.</FONT></P>

dwarrior0
12-06-2004, 12:18 PM
<DIV>One reason we need to use graven embrace while not being in a group is to use it upon our selves when we are solo.   That's about the only reason there needs to be, so ya.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Cyf
12-06-2004, 05:25 PM
<DIV>Can't count the number of times I've been tempted to use GE on the main healer of a group who are trying to steal my groups spawn camp....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But i don't of course. :smileywink:</DIV>

dopefi
12-06-2004, 06:18 PM
<DIV>GE on a healer before a pull like that is griefing, and frankly if you got caught, i hope you get a few days off. There is no RP aspect of this spell, it's not as someone put it a "lil bit of pvp" as there is no risk. In its current form, its a grief spell pure and simple, it should be group only just like revive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personnally i hope the make it group only, and fix it so it doesnt cancel all your buffs, in its current form you can't use this to save a healer, as you cancel out 300+ hps on most of the group as well as taking your healer out of the fight.</DIV>

InsidiousFrost
12-08-2004, 03:32 AM
I also had a problem with this spell, not only did the mobs not stop hitting me when I was running away from a train I lost 25 silver in crafted food that I had just eaten too, way to be one **mods 4 teh win!!1!**ed up spell!

Hadrius
12-08-2004, 01:46 PM
<DIV>I use GE all the time when people try and hijack my resource nodes, teaches them a lesson not to mine when other people are, I also use it on friends to mess with them, it would suck a little to lose that ability, but then again, if a resource node lock system is added like combat lock, I wouldn't mind.</DIV>

Cyf
12-08-2004, 03:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE> <P>GE should drop all the buffs from the person knocked down since they are supposedly 'dead'.</P> <P>It should be group based imo; as I pointed out above there are some really nasty uses for it and plenty of people out there who would grief in this way.</P> <P>It's also got plenty of uses especially when you're group is going down, a few good aggro calls and the GE on yourself can save the entire group.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aphexwu
12-17-2004, 02:14 PM
<DIV>Maybe I've just browsed through these messages too fast, but why is it that people think Shadowknights should be good?  I read messages from people saying that nice SK should  only use GE outside of the group on others fleeing from mobs.  Shadowknights are bad people, of course we are going to use GE on you for fun. It's like good people running by and casting a heal spell on you even though you didn't ask for it.  It's part of the mood and it makes the game interesting ( for us at least)  I have never seen anyone whine about me using GE on them.  They usually think it's really cool and ask me to do it again. But I can't do it over and over again, it has almost a 5 minute timer.  The only harm the skill even does is debuff you, and in most cases it will only take someone 30 seconds to recast their spells.  As for people saying they were "GE'd" and mobbs wondered onto them while they were down...you don't have to stay down when you have it cast on you, you can get up and move right away all you have to do is move forward.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I found Graven Embrace (Master I) in EW, and ever since I have loved the spell.  It has saved my tail from lots of debt.  It has also kept spammers quiet.  For some reason people sending constant group invites to me after I decline and tell them I'm going somewhere, seem to stop after they hit the floor <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You guys can talk bad about the Shadowknights using this skill as "grieffing" all you want but it means nothing.  If SOE leaves an exploit in one of it's skills, then it's their fault not the players'.  If they thought all of the possibilities out , maybe they would have realized that ,"Yes there are some [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]holes in this game that like to play dark characters and those types might want to be mean to others"  It's kinda like blaming a kid for shooting someone, when the parents let the kid have the gun (it's the first analogy that came to my head)  But SOE WILL change this skill after enough people complain about it, but we wouldn't even be having this discussion at all if they spent more time going through the games and taking out the exploits.  I'm done now, so those of you out there can tell me how dumb I am , and how I should read all the posts, I should go to hell ect.  But I am just stating some facts about the skill and about shadowknights.  This is just a game get over it.</DIV>

Kanfo
12-17-2004, 08:22 PM
The griefing uses of Graven Embrace out of group: - Blows buffs, and will cause downtime if used on the healer of a group (and perhaps wipe group during pull) - Kills invisibility and sneak, causing death if in aggro area. - Kills pets, causing immense downtime for summoners. - Stalls people on route to harvesting/collecting, and renders them helpless for 7+ seconds. - Steals proximity aggro. - Drops horse/sow for those on a run (JBoots quest, etc...) - Messes up crafters during production. - Can cause drowning when used on a swimmer.The benefit of Graven Embrace out of group: - FluffAnd this is a question? As much as I appreciate the noble spirit of some of the SK's out there that use it to benefit newbies, the potential for abuse *FAR* outweighs the few times it's beneficial to the community and game as a whole.

Slayer
12-17-2004, 09:47 PM
<DIV>i tried to cast GE on my groupmate when the mob is on her and shes low on health</DIV> <DIV>guess what? GE blows her hp buff and shes dead because the hp loss on buff</DIV> <DIV>since then ive never used GE in combat</DIV>