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View Full Version : Are Shadowknights really nerfed badly?


Whimpl
11-15-2004, 06:00 AM
<DIV> <BR> I created a Shadowknight and of course just as I get past level ten I red that SOE gimped them bad and are the weakest broken class now. Several sources said this, apparently they were overpowered so SOE put in a change but nerfed them too hard.<BR> <BR>For example 40 max damage on weapons etc<BR> <BR>IS this true or did they fine une it since thata patch at the start of the month<BR> </DIV>

Geox
11-15-2004, 11:37 AM
<DIV>Well iam Sk i do pretty good but iam only lv21</DIV>

Whimpl
11-15-2004, 06:03 PM
<DIV>I heard they were good and so far at Level 11 I am enjoying it, but when I saw a few posts about the nerf just before Retail release I got a little scared off the Shadowknight. Not that I want to be over powered, I was just looking for the most self suficient class so I can solo quite a bit as my playing hours arent always group friendly.</DIV>

11-15-2004, 07:37 PM
<blockquote><hr>Whimplow wrote:<DIV> <BR> I created a Shadowknight and of course just as I get past level ten I red that SOE gimped them bad and are the weakest broken class now. Several sources said this, apparently they were overpowered so SOE put in a change but nerfed them too hard.<BR> <BR>For example 40 max damage on weapons etc<BR> <BR>IS this true or did they fine une it since thata patch at the start of the month<BR> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Are you kidding me? Just play what you want to play and don't worry about the flavor of the month who is more powerful kind of thing. Want to know why?Because whoever is the most powerful character will eventually get nerfed. I've played enough online games to know that if you feel like a God or feel overpowered, your days are numbered and the Nerf bat will swing.The Nerf bat can swing at anytime, probably at the very time you become Shadowknight, hahahahhaSo can you understand how stupid this post is? Just play your precious Shadowknight and dont worry about God mode.

Naghaz Sathrak
11-15-2004, 10:04 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Romage wrote:<BR><BR><BR>Are you kidding me? Just play what you want to play and don't worry about the flavor of the month who is more powerful kind of thing. Want to know why?<BR><BR>Because whoever is the most powerful character will eventually get nerfed. I've played enough online games to know that if you feel like a God or feel overpowered, your days are numbered and the Nerf bat will swing.<BR><BR>The Nerf bat can swing at anytime, probably at the very time you become Shadowknight, hahahahha<BR><BR>So can you understand how stupid this post is? Just play your precious Shadowknight and dont worry about God mode.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN>While your message is solid it doesn’t address the primary concern of the original poster.  While I agree being overpowered or "God mode" as you put it, is just asking for a nerf bat, no one wants to play an underpowered class and thus his question is quite valid.  </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Your use of "precious" in the last sentence is curious but I'll leave all that in hopes this thread doesn’t degrade into a war of attrition.</SPAN></P>

Tako
11-15-2004, 10:28 PM
<DIV>OK, first SK's have never been nerfed.  Beta is for balancing classes and when they were "Nerfed" they did not have their class specific abilities to fall back as they were not yet released.  The class specific abilities were not introduced into the game until the last week of beta.  Anything before that does not count as they did not have their spells and combat arts.  Since then all the SK's I have spoken too have been very happy with their class.  </DIV>

SOEPlay
11-16-2004, 12:44 AM
<DIV>So how fast is the SK horse anyway? is it about the same speed as Sprint? or faster?  </DIV>

Whimpl
11-16-2004, 01:11 AM
<DIV>Thank you for a more civilized reply, I merely wanted to make sure I wasn't getting into an underpowered character. SOE has so badly mangled classes in the past that I became a little concerned. Nobody said anything about wanting to be over powerful or in a "God mode" I just dont want to spend hours on a character to find out they are gimped later on. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

11-16-2004, 08:36 AM
<blockquote><hr>Whimplow wrote:<DIV>Thank you for a more civilized reply, I merely wanted to make sure I wasn't getting into an underpowered character. SOE has so badly mangled classes in the past that I became a little concerned. Nobody said anything about wanting to be over powerful or in a "God mode" I just dont want to spend hours on a character to find out they are gimped later on. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>You did it again! " I dont want to spend hours on a character to find out they are gimped later on. "The point I am trying to sink into that thick head of yours is this: NOBODY knows if the character you are currently playing will be nerfed later on, not even the DEVS. Nobody can answer a question like that with authority.This game as well as other massive online games, are ever changing, ever evolving. To ask this question is ridiculous to say the least.Now, the DEVS will try to balance out all the classes so no one fighter is overpowered more than the others.If you currently play a fighter that is "overpowered" and then later on down the road suffer the nerf bat swing, you will proclaim " my character got gimped ", when in all actuality it just got fine tuned to balance things out.The DEVS cannot win or lose in this situation. There is a thing called the "Flavor of the Month", that is a fact. But like I said, things are always changing. If you are quick enough, you can level to be the "flavor" before the nerf bat swings.This post should be deleted cuz many of us veterans who play MOG's are so far beyond this kind of post its pathetic. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Just trying to educate a student<p>Message Edited by Romage on <span class=date_text>11-15-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:38 PM</span>

Naghaz Sathrak
11-16-2004, 10:22 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Romage wrote:<BR><BR>This post should be deleted cuz many of us veterans who play MOG's are so far beyond this kind of post its pathetic. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Just trying to educate a student <P>Message Edited by Romage on <SPAN class=date_text>11-15-2004</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>07:38 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> <P><SPAN>I a<SPAN>gree with you, this thread should be deleted though entirely due to your inappropriate and immature response.  I'm not sure why you are so angry at the original poster but it doest matter.  Personal attacks are something you should refrain from regardless of how strongly you feel.  </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>The poster asked if Shadowknights were nerfed.  The replies were no.  The thread is over.  Yet you continue to badger and progress your ridiculously overblown agenda.  It's quite obvious you have experience with MMO's in general and the life cycle each class within such games goes through.  Perhaps you should apply you're learned stature in a more positive manner as opposed to jamming it down everyone’s throat with broken sentences so filled with aggression, the statements within are dismissed long before the period is reached.  </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><BR>Education, which you so proudly claim you are doing, has little to do with berating and much to do with empathizing.  Show error through logic, not oppression, and relax.  This is, after all, simply a forum for an online game.  </SPAN></P> <P> </P> <P></SPAN> </P></DIV><p>Message Edited by Naghaz Sathrak on <span class=date_text>11-15-2004</span> <span class=time_text>09:23 PM</span>

Jaycen
11-16-2004, 11:04 PM
<DIV>Maybe Romage didn't quite word his last reply very tactfully but his point, I believe, is this: You can't go into a game looking for the most powerful or least nerfed class to play. Everything gets nerfed or changed or balanced eventually and if a player can't accept that fact then all they are going to do is complain throughout their whole career that they got screwed. No one forces you to pick anything in this game or even play it. You play and pay because it's your choice. If you're looking for the best looking, sweetest smelling Shadowknight there is then I suggest you go and learn some programming to come up with your own game. Until then, play what you feel like playing. If at any time you feel like Sony is screwing you over too badly, I can direct you the Cancel Subscription button as I've used it myself several times.</DIV>

Jagerbo
11-16-2004, 11:45 PM
<DIV>I want to be a shadowknight because I'm fascinated with the idea of an anti-Paladin...as long as I can kill stuff who cares if other classes have some perceived "edge" over me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm kind of glad it's not the best because typically Paladins are popular with the min-maxer crowd who bust a nut over 1 extra point of damage...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Play the game how you want and have fun with it, that's the point of a game right?</DIV>

Zero_Oblivion
11-17-2004, 01:33 AM
<DIV>Why are you guys giving the OP such a hard time?  He stated plainly that he ISN"T looking to be overpowered, he just doesn't want to be underpowered, which is a very valid concern in MMORPGs.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, no one is really high enough level yet to give you a good answer.  The Devs seem like they are doing everything they can to make all classes desirable, so I would go ahead with your SK.  I'll be joining you soon, I plan to make a SK alt.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

Wuw
11-17-2004, 03:26 AM
I think the concerns of the original poster are quite valid. Having had an Ogre SK in the original EQ whom I stopped playing because my spouses Necro was level 1.5x faster despite us always hunting together, and other punishments heaped upon him - it eventually became clear I must make a "golden child" aka my dwarven cleric who zoomed up to level 50 in the same amount of time it took my SK to reach 23.Wanting to know your not getting into the whipping chair from people who are playing the class is a valid concern.Naturally - what will the Dev's do in 6 months to this class and others? 1 year? Who knows .. After playing 8 different MMO's my only guess would have to be: "their worst" <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Shadame
11-17-2004, 12:53 PM
Mind you, I'm only a 15th level crusader, but as it stands now with some smart strategy I am able to excell beyond any other fighter class i have grouped with. I don't know how things change at 20+, but as it stands now I can solo yellows through creative use of HO's, our divine DD and our damage shield. I'm very happy as a gnome crusader and I wouldn't turn back.

Lorim
11-17-2004, 09:19 PM
<DIV>I agree, the OP has a legitimate concern. He said nothing of wanting to be overpowered, just not wanting to be underpowered, relatively speaking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This has two components. First off, I'm not sure how sophisticated the conning system is in this game, but it probably goes strictly off of level, not class, equipment, upgrades of skills, etc. An underpowered class will have amore diificult time finding out what they can and can't handle. If you are forced to hunt lower conned mobs, you will sufffer an xp hit that is unfair and yields slower progression as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With respect to Romage, yes, MMOGs are dynamic entities that are twisted and flipped by the devs, given time. The fact is, though, that unless a class is seriously underpowered, it will not receive prompt attention. Devs have been, and probably always will be, more involved in balancing from the top ("nerfing") than balancing from the bottom(receiving "love"), except in egregious cases.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, the OP did not come here looking to be the next l33t d00d, rather he came here to avoid being classified as the [Removed for Content] character, which, in many cases, would eventually either have him reroll or quit to another game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've played my share of [Removed for Content] builds for "character" reasons, and some simply out of ignorance when I'm starting a game. They rarely get the love they need fro the devs to continue progression, particularly into the more challenging parts of the game. They always (for me) eventually get left behind in favor of a character that can actually be a more significant contributor to the groups I play with.</DIV>

Lorim
11-17-2004, 09:20 PM
<DIV>doouble post</DIV><p>Message Edited by Lorimir on <span class=date_text>11-17-2004</span> <span class=time_text>08:21 AM</span>

Rich
11-18-2004, 05:34 AM
<DIV>*sigh</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i thought id left the idiots back on swg, looks like there here 2 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>@that rom guy</DIV>

DarthRev
11-18-2004, 05:51 AM
<DIV>I have played many games from Eq live with a lvl 52 dark elf sk on the Innoruuk server, 60 dark elf sk on eqoa on the clw server, and I've played a 50 Silver ranger on lineage 2 kain server, and what made me not go for a evil sk this time around because of all the previous times soe has nerfed sks in their games. So his question is very valid and is something that I am always wary about when selecting a class and putting 4 prepaid months into making. Look at eq live now when considering the sk class. Guilds look towards sks as a low priority when considering filling their open slots. I would just hope soe has learned not to continue nerfing without a very balanced compensation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Holyedge level 11 Crusader/Mistmoore server</DIV><p>Message Edited by DarthRevan on <span class=date_text>11-17-2004</span> <span class=time_text>04:53 PM</span>

WickedOne
11-18-2004, 08:10 AM
<DIV>Be cool if you got yourself educated on politeness :/</DIV>

Tyd
11-18-2004, 05:29 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Whimplow wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> I created a Shadowknight and of course just as I get past level ten I red that SOE gimped them bad and are the weakest broken class now. Several sources said this, apparently they were overpowered so SOE put in a change but nerfed them too hard.<BR> <BR>For example 40 max damage on weapons etc<BR> <BR>IS this true or did they fine une it since thata patch at the start of the month<BR> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I know 1 thing - ive done a maximum of 42 damage with: 1: Prisitne Greatsword, 2: Shadowblade of Zeal, 3: Skullcrusher, 4: Soulreaver. None of the weapons have performed over this number. At least that has been registered on stationplayers.. So something seems funny.. I smell a dog burried here...<p>Message Edited by Tydde on <span class=date_text>11-18-2004</span> <span class=time_text>04:30 AM</span>

Pertax37
11-18-2004, 07:08 PM
<DIV>Wow you people amaze me. . . Of course there is a damage cap for certain points of your level.  This has to do with the ammount of crushing skill or slashing skill you have.  So yes damage is "capped" somewhat.  Rest assure as you level up and increase your crush/slash skill you will be able to hit for more damage.  I do about 50ish damage with my skull crusher at level 21.  Max damage with skull crusher 86.  </DIV>

Blacka
11-19-2004, 08:40 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Romage wrote:<BR><BR>Now, the DEVS will try to balance out all the classes so no one fighter is overpowered more than the others.<BR><BR>This post should be deleted cuz many of us veterans who play MOG's are so far beyond this kind of post its pathetic. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Just trying to educate a student <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well I see you are balanced: as arrogant as you are ignorant. </P> <P>There are a few of us on this very thread who have played high level SKs on EQ, and who have been both playing and doing Beta on many of these types of games, and we have the same concerns as the OP simply because we know that, as you imply there Yoda, that "The DEVS will try to balance out the classes" is not always true. Its been 5 years on EQ and they still have yet to. </P> <P>The OP has a lagit concern and if you can't add anything to it, then  just [Removed for Content]. </P>

EQAma
11-19-2004, 09:13 AM
<P><FONT size=2>I'll end this silly debate by answering his question point blank so this discussion can end and the thread locked.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Answer: No, it is not true.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Everyone happy now?<BR></FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#666666 size=2> <HR> Whimplow wrote:<BR></FONT> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#666666 size=2> I created a Shadowknight and of course just as I get past level ten I red that SOE gimped them bad and are the weakest broken class now. Several sources said this, apparently they were overpowered so SOE put in a change but nerfed them too hard.<BR> <BR>For example 40 max damage on weapons etc<BR> <BR><FONT color=#ffcc33>IS this true or did they fine une it since thata patch at the start of the month</FONT><BR> </FONT></DIV><BR><FONT color=#666666 size=2> <HR> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

Vadir
11-19-2004, 09:43 AM
<DIV>And to further this discussion.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No, SK's are definitely not gimped.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm lvl 20, and still going strong.  I have never encountered what I would call "difficulty due to limitations with my class" nor have I ever regretted my decision for choosing an SK.  I love being an SK.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, for those people who don't like being an offensive-tank type, SK is not for you.  That's what we are, plain and simple, and if you are looking for something else, you need to choose another profession.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

jyoung2k
11-19-2004, 09:49 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Whimplow wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> I created a Shadowknight and of course just as I get past level ten I red that SOE gimped them bad and are the weakest broken class now. Several sources said this, apparently they were overpowered so SOE put in a change but nerfed them too hard.<BR> <BR>For example 40 max damage on weapons etc<BR> <BR>IS this true or did they fine une it since thata patch at the start of the month<BR> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I played a 31 sk in beta and I dont remember any nerf's in fact we got some much needed adjustments just before beta was over. They were never overpowered in fact they were and still are pretty underpowered. The spell line sounded very much like a pally spell line and it was obvious they copied the basic design of paladin when they made SK.</P> <P>Weapon usage is the suck and as you level you'll find fewer and fewer weapons you can use, I ended up useing a hammer that would of suited a preist better.</P> <P>Taunt is pretty much fixed but was a real issue for us when compareing it to the rest of the fighter tree.</P> <P>Most of our spells past 25 were broke. If your playing an sk for the pet prepare for some major dissappointment.</P> <P>You wont do the same dps as a pure melee like giuardian or zerker because your spells are supposed to play a part in your dps, the fact is your mitigation is so much lower you wont be casting many spells except your rune and lifetaps. In beta  it was a common post that healers didnt want a sk as a tank cause they were more difficult to heal. I really doont know if thats true or not but there were times when I would group with a lowered level guardian and the healers would ask that the guardian tank, so my role became warding him and giving him my AC.</P> <P>SK's could solo really well in beta after roughly 25 or so but it was slow killing.</P> <P>Other issues I hated, as a troll sk it sorta sucked to carry a tiny hammer and wear pastel blue colored armor, I forgot the armor type but it was ugly and didnt fit a sk at all and clearly was meant for a pally or some less evil type of melee.</P> <P>I really havnt played much since release came out and I'm not playing a sk for sure. If you want to do dps pick a rogue or something if you want to tank the purer tank classes are better IMO but you can get the job done with an sk.</P> <P>BTW I really dont think we people know much about how the class really plays until you've gotten a few levels, a 20 sk is still a crusader in all but title, your spells are still crusader spells, with the exception is you get a harm touch that is resisted 3 out of 4 times. Once you get to 28 -35 you will have a much better idea on the class. </P> <P>Again my expirences are from beta and retail things may of changed, hopefully they did for the better.</P> <P>Message Edited by jyoung2k on <SPAN class=date_text>11-18-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:52 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by jyoung2k on <span class=date_text>11-18-2004</span> <span class=time_text>08:58 PM</span>

thayy
11-19-2004, 04:18 PM
I have played since day 1 with the goal of sk in mind. i am currently a lvl 21 sk and i love this class it has awesome soloability my max magic hit is 202 and my max melee hit is over 60 with an inferior weapon compared to what is available to me. they have done great things with sk class since eq where they were nerfed and inferior but i keep up with the best of them and surpass most in eq2. do not deviate from this class due to rumors it is well made and well balanced and incredibly fun to play.Thayyed Ladykiller lvl 21 shadow knight unrest server

Jestanic
11-19-2004, 05:43 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Whimplow wrote:<BR> <DIV>Thank you for a more civilized reply, I merely wanted to make sure I wasn't getting into an underpowered character. SOE has so badly mangled classes in the past that I became a little concerned. Nobody said anything about wanting to be over powerful or in a "God mode" I just dont want to spend hours on a character to find out they are <STRONG><EM>gimped</EM></STRONG> later on. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Being only slightly higher than you, i thought similar thoughts when i read, guardians were the best tank and so on, but the more i read i find that shadowknights are a self sufficient class in many situations, and they tend to be a preferred profession.</P> <P>However, i am enjoying the profession, i was concerned that there were other professions that could hit harder, and mages seemed to be able to handle similar enemies, but i was supposed to be the damage taker.....it seems to pan out as the levels increase, wat direction the profession i taking, i am quite pleased with my first character choice atm.</P> <P><BR></P>

Nefariouso
11-20-2004, 01:47 AM
<blockquote>You did it again! " I dont want to spend hours on a character to find out they are gimped later on. "The point I am trying to sink into that thick head of yours is this: NOBODY knows if the character you are currently playing will be nerfed later on, not even the DEVS. Nobody can answer a question like that with authority.</blockquote>The poster made mention to SE (Square Enix) who developed FFXI. SE did a horrible job balancing the melee jobs in that game. Dragoons and certain other jobs had it really bad and to this day, still have not been fixed. Other jobs such as Dark Knight and Ranger remain over powered. I can understand his reservation in regards to putting time and effort into a job that will not get invites at later levels. Plenty of people got burned horribly in FFXI.

Lylah
11-20-2004, 01:55 AM
<DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Ryrah on <span class=date_text>02-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:15 PM</span>