Bruisers not as Tanks =C??

[Pimpsxx]

<DIV><FONT color=#99ff00>Can anyone explain why so many priest prefer T6+ tanks to be only plate wearers, i mean except the godly raiding people who im pretty sure have no life i have more avoidance and decent mitigation, not to mention if we got priest with sta buffs i usually have about the same and sometimes more hp. Tis kinda stupid we are a fighter clas for a reason.</FONT></DIV>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pimpsxx wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#99ff00>Can anyone explain why so many priest prefer T6+ tanks to be only plate wearers, i mean except the godly raiding people who im pretty sure have no life i have more avoidance and decent mitigation, not to mention if we got priest with sta buffs i usually have about the same and sometimes more hp. Tis kinda stupid we are a fighter clas for a reason.</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well who can explain peoples mentalitys and the need to be stupid ! ~We tank better than guards/zerks in most group situations .. a few exeptions however (HoF - Debilitate).  </P> <P>Why have a plate tank that just soaks up damage and does crappy damage when u can have a brusier do the same job though with more dps </P> <P> </P>

[DarkMirrax]

/Meh and for gods sake lose the green font its burning my eyes !!!!!!!

[Gungo]

<DIV>Its the stigma we live with and sadly its half based on truth. W/O good gear/buffs brawlers are at a disadvantage. But when you acquire items with high + avoidance skills and + mitigation. You will surpass most tanks. Its fun though a few people think les sof you then other tanks. Your guild has a pally tank one of the mobs that splits off in deathtoll. He drops and you tank it w/o a hitch in a group of all dps no buffs and 1 healer. Or when they say we need a plate tank for nazara. You go in and clear to the final named on your first go inside and people say that was the best run they ever had. People play bruisers how they envision us. Some build solely to dps and never try to grab that add. (we can tank epics). Some build up with the mentality we are tanks they focus on pure mtiigation and + avodiance skill increasers. These people may actually realise a bruiser is the only fighter who will hit 80% mit and 80% avoid. (sooner then later) And some focus on both dps and tanking trying to fill whichever role is needed. We have game mechanics initially agaisnt us and at times half the brawler community who refuses to tank. Just remeber its better when you do great things because each time that happens you prove those people wrong.</DIV>

[Deadly Nightshadow]

Yup. I often duo and also go in full groups with one of my Guildie's Monks and I have to say- Great tank. Haven't wiped once yet even when against even con ^^^s in a duo. I have to say, a Brawler with good gear can be one of the best tanks. <div></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Deadly Nightshadow wrote:<BR>Yup. I often duo and also go in full groups with one of my Guildie's Monks and I have to say- Great tank. Haven't wiped once yet even when against even con ^^^s in a duo. I have to say, a Brawler with good gear can be one of the best tanks. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Meh thats cos he got a defiler with him , best combo in the game

[ganjookie]

Automated answer #0035  People are losers<div></div>

[Zigmun]

<P>The proper answer is that until we are properly geared, generally Guardians make better tanks, because they do have higher mit and some special abilities. </P> <P>The proper answer is that if you had a high end raiding guild with a bruiser and a guardian who would you make MT?</P> <P>Honestly?</P> <P>Why would you make a bruiser MT over a guardian? The Guardian does crappy dps and has some abilities that allow them to soke up a lot of damage - so if the Guardian wasn't MT, how would you use him?  For dps? As an off tank? Why? </P> <P>Now as far as tanking goes (referring to the title of your post) Bruisers make as good as tanks as any other fighter class.</P> <P>But when your raiding, you have to use what your given in a way that makes sense. </P> <P>To everyone.</P> <P>Not just because your a bruiser with a chip on your shoulder.</P> <P> </P>

[J4k]

<DIV>Its really sad when this is the only freakin topic thats ever posted about. What is this thread number 20 of this same thing?</DIV>

[ganjookie]

35 <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[J4k]

28 ~

[Maelwy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pimpsxx wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#99ff00><FONT color=#ffff00>Can anyone explain why so many priest prefer T6+ tanks to be only plate wearers</FONT>, i mean except the godly raiding people who im pretty sure have no life i have more avoidance and decent mitigation, not to mention if we got priest with sta buffs i usually have about the same and sometimes more hp. Tis kinda stupid we are a fighter clas for a reason.</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This is the key...priests (reactive based heals) are the most inefficient healer at dealing with an avoidance tank.  They can't do their best healing on a tank who avoids 3/4 of the mobs hits, then they are left struggling when that spike damage gets thru.</P> <P>It's not bruisers that are the problem here, its the style of healer.</P> <P>A more appropriate question would be...why, as a tank, are you choosing a healer who is the worst for keeping you alive?</P> <P>FORM YOUR OWN GROUPS to benefit YOU.</P> <P>Grab a Shaman (defiler preferably) as your Main Healer.  Grab a warden or fury to back em up if you are going into a tough instance/zone.</P> <P>Then grab a coercer, or an illusionist, and a dirge (or a troub).</P> <P>Fill in the group with a brigand and a necro, or grab a monk (even better, since they can group fd).</P> <P>If you go with the monk, you've got a group that can train entire zones, and kill what you want, when you want.  You've got the dps and the healing to kill swarms of mobs if you get adds or social pulls, or a bad FD. </P> <P>Don't sit around complaining about priests not wanting you along, don't invite em.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[ganjookie]

Thats one way to put it mildly<div></div>

[Code2501]

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Maelwys1 wrote:<BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pimpsxx wrote:<BR><FONT color=#99ff00><FONT color=#ffff00>Can anyone explain why so many priest prefer T6+ tanks to be only plate wearers</FONT>, i mean except the godly raiding people who im pretty sure have no life i have more avoidance and decent mitigation, not to mention if we got priest with sta buffs i usually have about the same and sometimes more hp. Tis kinda stupid we are a fighter clas for a reason.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is the key...priests (reactive based heals) are the most inefficient healer at dealing with an avoidance tank.  They can't do their best healing on a tank who avoids 3/4 of the mobs hits, then they are left struggling when that spike damage gets thru.</P> <P>It's not bruisers that are the problem here, its the style of healer.</P> <P>A more appropriate question would be...why, as a tank, are you choosing a healer who is the worst for keeping you alive?</P> <P>FORM YOUR OWN GROUPS to benefit YOU.</P> <P>Grab a Shaman (defiler preferably) as your Main Healer.  Grab a warden or fury to back em up if you are going into a tough instance/zone.</P> <P>Then grab a coercer, or an illusionist, and a dirge (or a troub).</P> <P>Fill in the group with a brigand and a necro, or grab a monk (even better, since they can group fd).</P> <P>If you go with the monk, you've got a group that can train entire zones, and kill what you want, when you want.  You've got the dps and the healing to kill swarms of mobs if you get adds or social pulls, or a bad FD.</P> <P>Don't sit around complaining about priests not wanting you along, don't invite em.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Let me just explain why inaccurate assertions dont assist making a point...</P> <P>Priest is a archetype, cleric is the reactive healer branch and Templar/Inquisitor is the sub-class. When the OP said Priests he meant all types of healers;</P> <P> </P> <P>Priest</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P>Druid</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P>Fury</P> <P>Warden</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Shaman</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P>Mystic</P> <P>Defiler</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>Cleric (reactives)</FONT></STRONG></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P>Templar</P> <P>Inquisitor</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Measure twice cut once.</P>

[Xartan]

<DIV>Just strolling through the other fighter forums and come across this gem of a post...</DIV> <DIV>I've been on some high end raids with a bruiser MT and they do exceptionally well. If built to tank, a bruiser is an impressive force.</DIV> <DIV>That being said, I'm surprised none of you mentioned SK in your group.. our 8% proc lifetap for the group does wonders for brawlers, and the extra mit doesn't hurt either. In fact we had our bruiser over 6k mit with 80% avoidance and the lifetap proc...I think our cleric just went on autofollow for a few fights and we didn't notice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good to see you guys suffer the same affliction as us Shadowknights do when trying to get a group...</DIV> <DIV>if its not "you don't wear plate, you can't tank" its "you're a shadowknight, you have low hp and mitigation and can't hold aggro! omg you're not a guardian how can you possibly tank????"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I truly feel sorry for all the guardians who aren't a raid mt.</DIV> <DIV><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xartan wrote:<BR> <DIV>Just strolling through the other fighter forums and come across this gem of a post...</DIV> <DIV>I've been on some high end raids with a bruiser MT and they do exceptionally well. If built to tank, a bruiser is an impressive force.</DIV> <DIV>That being said, I'm surprised none of you mentioned SK in your group.. our 8% proc lifetap for the group does wonders for brawlers, and the extra mit doesn't hurt either. In fact we had our bruiser over 6k mit with 80% avoidance and the lifetap proc...I think our cleric just went on autofollow for a few fights and we didn't notice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good to see you guys suffer the same affliction as us Shadowknights do when trying to get a group...</DIV> <DIV>if its not "you don't wear plate, you can't tank" its "you're a shadowknight, you have low hp and mitigation and can't hold aggro! omg you're not a guardian how can you possibly tank????"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I truly feel sorry for all the guardians who aren't a raid mt.</DIV> <DIV><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Very True that lifetap proc pwns !! gotta be said Deathmarch FTW !!!!!!!</P> <P> </P>

[Bong_water]

because a priest works better with a plate tank because of the reactives <div></div>

[JNewby]

we had brawlers tnak goneire <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> which made him more difficult then he coudl ahve been.. also he is a very light hitting mob.. but besisdes that 80% isnt the top for raids.. or gruops for that matter the max is probably somewhere around 9500 mit or more... in addition I have played one of my guildies monks before and they are a fun class.. but defenatly take mroe dmg form heroics.. when I was soloing anyhow.. though healing it still isnt a problem of course.. also guardians dps isnt that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty.. my guard with all master attacks and fabled weapsons self dps and haste buffs can do like 700 dps my highest parse on a raid mob while tanking was like 950 dps but I attribute taht to the brigs debuffs... anyhow.. its not all black and white as this post sonuds.. guards have their variety as well.. if I wanted to be more dps I woudl go buckler line and probably keep up with most other fighter classes..

[Jenguro]

My main is a 66 defiler, I've had good and bad experience with brawlers tanking (just as I have with plate classes).  Healers that use hot and reactives sometimes don't like the high avoidance/high damage nature of brawlers because they can take damage quickly that their heals take time to recover, but as a shaman it's not a disadvantage for me since all the damage is stopped up front whether in small amounts gradually or large ones occasionally.  The one area of difficulty I've seen is with adds: if the brawler doesnt use his aoe taunts, combat arts, switch targets, etc., properly, then there can be chaos.  In that respect it just depends on the player, and I've been in excellent groups with brawlers who had no difficulty with adds.  The last group with a bruiser I was in had a coercer as well, and we just owned SoS.

[Deadly Nightshadow]

<blockquote><hr>Bong_water wrote:because a priest works better with a plate tank because of the reactives <div></div><hr></blockquote>UGH! Priest does NOT= Reactives. Cleric does. his ahs been posted before, but I'll post it again. <b>Druid (Healing over time)</b>FuryWarden<b>Shaman (Wards)</b>DefilerMystic<b>Cleric (Reactives)</b>InquisitorTemplarDruids are very versitile. They can heal any kind of tank very well but if there's large spike damage they may need to be backed up. Shamans are excellent when coupled with avoidance tanks. The avoidance tanks dodge a large portion of the damage and when hit, the wards absorb it. With avoiudance tanks, it's actually very rare that they will break unless dealing with mobs that hit really hard.Clerics are great with p;ate tanks as the reactives trigger quickly and efficiently. They are not, as is often said by ignorant players 'the best healers'. They are the best healers in certain situations. As are Shamans and Druids.  I'm amazed that you have a level 70/70 toon and yet you are still so ignorant of the priest archetype. Please, next time try to make a more considered post, not one that attempts (consciously or not) to nullify 2 out of 3 types of priest. <div></div>

[Pouncer74]

<P>I have a 70 bruiser, my main, and a 70 sk, my alt.  I think I can easily sum up why some healers prefer mitigation tanks  over avoidance.   Its just plain easier to heal them vs anything thats high blue to yellow.  Avoidance tanks have a lot of random spikes in their health pools, but get hit incredibly less.  A healer needs to pay attention when healing a bruiser or monk.  With a crusader or warrior....healing is much more predictable.  </P> <P>Personally, I think that bruisers are the better xp tank with a good healer who focuses.</P>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pouncer74 wrote:<BR> <P>I have a 70 bruiser, my main, and a 70 sk, my alt.  I think I can easily sum up why some healers prefer mitigation tanks  over avoidance.   Its just plain easier to heal them vs anything thats high blue to yellow. </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>/You Mean Yellow to Orange ? Last time i checked we work very well againts blues :smileyvery-happy:</FONT></P> <P> Avoidance tanks have a lot of random spikes in their health pools, but get hit incredibly less.  A healer needs to pay attention when healing a bruiser or monk.  With a crusader or warrior....healing is much more predictable.  </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>/you mean get hit more ?</FONT></P> <P>Personally, I think that bruisers are the better xp tank with a good healer who focuses.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>/Agreed, Just need an alert healer & Power regen = ROCKING THE SHOP</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[deadsidedemon]

<DIV>Really, all other tanks are just boring.  I like the adrenaline rush of seeing my health drop to 20% in one hit, then avoiding a whole mess of hits in a row until I'm healing back up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can sympathise with the healers though ... it's tough.  One memory that comes to mind is tanking one of the corpuscles from the Amorphus Drake split in Deathtoll ... I literally avoided 12 hits in a row from him, only to die when the AE went off within the same split-second that he finally landed a 6k hit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Madmoon]

<P>I will throw this bone to guardians being the best "pure" tank.  If played and equipped right, they can pull any and all off of <EM>anyone</EM>.  I love tanking, and do a good job at it, but I have to tip my hat to this guardian who was two levels below me.  We were playing in a group of high damage types, when three monsters latched on to the wizard.  With a couple quick swipes, he was at half health.  I <STRONG>unloaded</STRONG> on them, starting with the taunts and stuns, even fearing and mezzing, and used the Ubertaunt to get one, but the rest were having none of it.  The druid was furiously healing, when the guardian turned from the monster he was fighting.  One and two, he got them all on him.  I don't know if they have more taunts, better taunts, but this guy never seemed to lose agro.</P> <P>Redmouser, Bruiser, AB</P>

[ganjookie]

More taunts, single and group<div></div>

[standupwookie]

I play a plate tank, a plate healer and a bruiser. And when I play the INQ, the reason why I would rather have a Plate Tank is this.  My heals are slow casting.  If you are getting beat on by a bunch of even /con or higher mobs...there is simply no way I can keep up. And when you are tanking against lower level blu con mobs....there are often times my reactives wont even fire cause you are not getting hit. That means, I sit around and do nothing.....here is a little secret, plate clerics would rather be tossing heals than doing nothing in a group. Brawlers work better with non reactive healers.

[Madmoon]

I agree - shaman are much better for us.  Even druids do better for us.  Not that clerics are impossible, but the former two just are better suited to our style.  Especially shaman.  Makes you wonder if druids are better - in some way - for crusaders.

[IanTheRed]

<div></div>Defilers are the best healers for Bruisers being a bruiser and experaincing this my self.I also have a templar and i have to say my favorite groups to heal are groups with Bruiser/Monk combos because i just have to put my buff that procs a group heal on them and go read a book or something.Dirges > Traubs for bruisers because of fatty parry buff the defence buff traubs have helps but imo parry does more for my avoidance.  Bruiser - tankDefiler - healer (haste AA line would be cool but heal crit is nice too)Coercer - 70-100% DPS buff mod + Power + HateDirge- Parry + Hate Resist and CA buffsAssassin- DPS + Hate and apply poison is my friendWiz or Lock- DPSbtw im on Venekor  PvP so this is all Freep classesyour set with that group imonothing like tanking yellow cons in Offence stance and all that hate generation for you means you wont loose aggro ever <div></div><p>Message Edited by IanTheRed on <span class=date_text>07-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:11 PM</span>

[UniformMarsha]

<DIV>A Templar Heals in this Fashion: Cast AE heal proc on the Bruiser, Cast Mark on Mob (everytime the bruiser hits the mob a heal proc goes off), Cast Involuntary Cleric of some form on mob (When it lands a hit on the Bruiser it has a chance to proc a heal).  This is in addition to the single target reative, the group reactive, the large slow direct heal and the smaller faster direct heal that is availble.  Since at least 1/2 of the healing power is only activated when the tank is hit, this is a very ineffcient combo for an avoidance tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Having said all that, I played 50 of my 63 levels with a Monk as my main tank.  It is challenging and a cleric class MUST be on his or her game, however it CAN be done.  I would rather have a challenge than a spood-fed victory.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I play a bruiser and even though everyone says grab a shaman, I will grab the best healer that is offered that can both heal me AND my group.</DIV>

[PhozFa]

<blockquote><hr>IanTheRed wrote:<div></div><font color="#ff3333">Defilers are the best healers for Bruisers being a bruiser and experaincing this my self.</font>I also have a templar and i have to say my favorite groups to heal are groups with Bruiser/Monk combos because i just have to put my buff that procs a group heal on them and go read a book or something.Dirges > Traubs for bruisers because of fatty parry buff the defence buff traubs have helps but imo parry does more for my avoidance.  Bruiser - tankDefiler - healer (haste AA line would be cool but heal crit is nice too)Coercer - 70-100% DPS buff mod + Power + HateDirge- Parry + Hate Resist and CA buffsAssassin- DPS + Hate and apply poison is my friendWiz or Lock- DPSbtw im on Venekor  PvP so this is all Freep classesyour set with that group imonothing like tanking yellow cons in Offence stance and all that hate generation for you means you wont loose aggro ever <div></div><p>Message Edited by IanTheRed on <span class="date_text">07-27-2006</span> <span class="time_text">02:11 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I agree defilers are def a good healer to have. I box my defiler/bruiser with great results. I cut throu white/yellow mobs like nothing. Defiler debuffs weaken the blows from the mob. I use the last AA on the INT line for brawlers and use the defiler to keep myself within 20-30% health. I can usually keep atleast 1 ward at a time when they wear off i'm still between 60-70% mit in Off mode, not to mention the ability to crit just about everything for insane dps. In groups with dual healers i love a Defiler/Druid combo. Buffs/Wards vs Quick heals rock. It doesn't seem that combo has much trouble keeping me up But tats herioc tanking. We rock in herioc tanking. Problem comes in IMO at epic tanking. Some bruisers can do it but how many raids actully use a bruiser tank? If they made good raid tanks wouldn't top guilds use them more?<div></div>

[icybiohazzard]

<DIV>Tanked HoF With no prob with 2 wiz/defiler/swashie/ill  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>with a Shammie Tho A bruiser can take Almost all but raid mobs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Wards = No dmg to your lower mit / HoT is ok but not ideal / reactives Spell your doom </DIV>

[_Calvin_]

<DIV><moved to new thread></DIV><p>Message Edited by _Calvin_ on <span class=date_text>08-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:28 AM</span>