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Boli
11-09-2015, 12:09 PM
Is there a reason why these stats are given out separately?<br /> <br />I, like many others liked the idea that the collection belts and cloaks gave these out both together.<br /> <br />20% doublecast to a pure caster lets say gives 20% damage boost<br />20% flurry to a pure melee lets say gives 20% damage boost<br /> <br />20% doublecast to a hybrid caster lets say give only a 10% damage boost<br />20% flurry to a hybrid melee lets say give only a 10% damage boost<br /> <br />what's the harm in giving 20% doublecast AND 20% flurry on the same items?<br /> <br />* hybrid classes already need a lot more stats to care about so this helps in itemization<br />* you are in effect boosting the classes equally - or at least more equal than before<br />* Some hybrids concentrate more on say "melee" or "spell" and you'd never get them to agree with which is best so give them both?<br /> <br />I'm talking mainly here about the class relic cloaks but also the green adornments which give doublecast to the mitigation green adorns - it should ALSO grant flurry.<br /> <br />Please remember as hybrid classes we need so many more stats to reforge, change and swap around we are always going to be at a disadvantage gear wise.

Koko
11-09-2015, 12:33 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Boli"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Boli said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6281102#post-6281102" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Is there a reason why these stats are given out separately?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>tl;dr because "pure caster" doesn't exist as a competitive EncDPS archtype and because "flurry/DC" does not favor all classes equally.<br /> <br />The EncDPS returns (on a reforge point basis) greatly favor AAs over abilities even when abilities are used frequently (i.e. 2~ abilities/second). "Caster" ability use is even less frequent, and Auto Attacks become the optimal reforge path. There are other 'boosts' as well, such as AA procs, no-need-to-time-them, etc.<br /> <br />The existence of "free flurry" was effectively icing on caster DPS. They're trying to "level out" caster vs. melee DPS this expansion, so I expect that is the origin of their changes. The cloak stats were assigned via script, hence the reason some of them are odd, but I doubt you will see a return to "both of these stats are on this item" this expansion.

Boli
11-09-2015, 12:54 PM
Bards, Crusaders, and pretty much all priests pretty much need flurry *and* doublecast.which makes itemization a pain<br /> <br />The Flurry being added as "icing on the cake" for the caster really made a difference to the other classes who use both stats a lot more equal - you've already see the arguments on the class relic cloaks. half the class can;t even agree if they shoudl have flurry or doublecast.<br /> <br />you've set a president for granting both on cloaks/belts; and for classes who do not use - that's something to reforge.

Beee
11-09-2015, 01:18 PM
Boli.. just maths: 100% Doublecast gives a maximum boost of 50% reduced by autoattack...<br /> <br />So in reality 20 precent double attack gives a 8 percent dps boost <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" />

Taka
11-09-2015, 04:52 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Beee"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Beee said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6281119#post-6281119" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Boli.. just maths: 100% Doublecast gives a maximum boost of 50% reduced by autoattack...<br /> <br />So in reality 20 precent double attack gives a 8 percent dps boost <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" /></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Huh? You started with double cast and then said something about double attack?<br />If I read between the lines though, you're saying the 20% doublecast is even less effective for a crusader so its not even 10% effective its 8% effective?

Boli
11-09-2015, 05:37 PM
The numbers are *far* from accurate (I know all things being equal flurry gives nets a better advantage than double cast in like a 2:1 or 3:1 advantage. but with the slant towards huge potency numbers and the cap on WDM and crit bonus the autoattack percentage - and the ratio between flurry and double-cast will drop significantly.<br /> <br />But Hybrid classes *should* get both stats - even if in a reduced quantity (say two thirds of single total e.g. 16% flurry/doublecast instead of 24% flurry)<br /> <br />Gearing up hybrid classes is not easy... and even classes which are more slanted to one than the other you will get an argument over which is better (should defiler get flurry or double cast for instance?)

Beee
11-09-2015, 10:04 PM
I should not post while doing other things at the same time ...<br /> <br />If you have eg 10Mio DPS with 50% doublecast and you rise your doublecast to 70% you will get an output of 10,8 Mio...<br />This is far away from 20% more.<br />Additional do not forget the cap of 100 SDA allready reached during TW ( 8% of the time )... it will not bring you the 8% boost if you allready have good support<br /> <br />Both stats are usefull and necessary <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" />

Anunnaki
11-09-2015, 11:05 PM
My problem with both stats not being on the cloak and belt stems from the fact that itemization currently has that option available on live. Forget about the class cloak (I'm assuming there will be far better relics in end game) and put them on regular cloaks and belts. Or hell, give an option. If I want to keep my ~18% DC/Flurry cloak item on, good for me, but if I choose pure DC or Pure Flurry, there should be a higher value on it. As it sits, there isnt enough of a stat increase to justify me removing ~36% Flurry for an increase of 8% over all DC and just a minor boost in Blue/Green stats.

Jsnappy
11-11-2015, 07:30 AM
We need triple cast already! Double Cast is too easy to be near 100% now. Having Triple Cast stat work similar to multi-attack chance would be a reasonable way to contain the double cast stat inflation and from making too OP<br />Something like:<br />100% Double Cast- 100% Double Cast Chance + 0% Triple Cast Chance<br />110% Double Cast- 100% Double Cast Chance + 5% Triple Cast Chance<br />125% Double Cast- 100% Double Cast Chance + 15% Triple Cast Chance<br />150% Double Cast- 100% Double Cast Chance + 25% Triple Cast Chance<br />200% Double Cast- 100% Double Cast Chance + 50% Triple Cast Chance<br /> <br />Or having excess Double Cast>100% give X% base potency increase.

kluxor
11-11-2015, 04:30 PM
with the decreased focus on autoattacks 100% DC > 100% flurry by a large margin. And now since doublecast and flurry are no longer being shared on items, scouts who's certain abilities that do indeed doublecast will be left with another decrease to overall dps.<br /> <br />certain scouts are getting hit pretty hard this expansion

Mermut
11-11-2015, 07:32 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="kluxor"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">kluxor said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6281998#post-6281998" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">with the decreased focus on autoattacks 100% DC > 100% flurry by a large margin. And now since doublecast and flurry are no longer being shared on items, scouts who's certain abilities that do indeed doublecast will be left with another decrease to overall dps.<br /> <br />certain scouts are getting hit pretty hard this expansion</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Not just scouts. Melee priests are taking as big a hit.. and we're not getting any boost to our CAs.

Anunnaki
11-11-2015, 08:52 PM
The smarter option would be to change the temps that give doublecast (Time Warp mainly) to something more useful. I don't think itemization allows for enough doublecast (outside of Time Warp being active) for triplecast to be a thing to put into game.

Airros
11-12-2015, 01:21 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">luxor said: <a href="https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq2/index.php?goto/post&id=6281998#post-6281998" class="internalLink"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="color: #0066cc">↑</span></span></a><br /><div style="padding-left: 30px"><br /></div>“with the decreased focus on autoattacks 100% DC > 100% flurry by a large margin. And now since doublecast and flurry are no longer being shared on items, scouts who's certain abilities that do indeed doublecast will be left with another decrease to overall dps.<br /> <br />certain scouts are getting hit pretty hard this expansion”</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div><div style="padding-left: 30px"><br /></div><div style="padding-left: 30px">Specify what scouts you are talking about please?</div>