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Netharius
10-28-2015, 10:02 AM
Dear Devs,<br /> <br />I've had a chance to take <b>Delidrae</b> out for a test-drive this morning on Beta, and was very disappointed in the results:<br /> <br /><img src="http://i65.tinypic.com/dblg03.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br /><i><b>Delidrae</b> averaged about <b>73k DPS</b> at level 100 in an EoF Fabled Advanced Solo dungeon, which is comparable (-10k DPS) to the AoM Heroic-dropped Brigand and Troubador mercs.</i><br /> <br /><img src="http://i65.tinypic.com/ok0do7.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br /><i><b>Kluuron V'Lornn</b> averaged about 325k DPS per encounter under the same circumstances.</i><br /> <br /><i>At present</i>, Elite Inquisitor mercs (e.g. Lorr'Kjut, The Sublime Blade-Vicar etc.) are dealing about <span style="color: #ff0000"><b>5x more damage </b></span>than their scout counterparts, somewhere in the range of 350-450k DPS @ level 100.<br /> <br /><b>Is this working as intended?</b><br /> <br />I would love to see a <i>true</i> "damaging" merc, but presently, there isn't one in game... <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" /> This would be especially useful for players like me who have a lot of priests and fighters.<br /> <br />Many of us paid for the CE/PE edition of ToT hoping that would change, but presently, I just can't see a benefit to using this merc for <i>anything</i> when even Kluuron is doing 4.5x more damage...<br /> <br />Please consider giving Delidrae (and the ToT Heroic dropped damaging mercs) a little <b>DBG Dev Lovin'</b><span style="font-size: 16px"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #222222">™</span></span></span>! <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" /><br /> <br />Thank you!<br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>Notes and Concessions:</b></span><br /><ol><li>I recognize that collections mercs are <i><b>not</b></i> intended to be superior to dropped mercs - I support this, and am not asking for that to change. So, for the purposes of my comparison I used the AoM CE merc vs the ToT CE merc.</li><li>I would not expect a mercenary to reach the multi-million DPS figures most player characters can achieve. I believe 600-800k DPS @ Level 100 in current content would probably be appropriate for their intended use;<b>more</b> damage than a healer merc, but <i>far less</i> than an actual player.</li><li>There may be <b>balance issues and concerns</b> I'm unaware of, and if so, more information from the Dev team on the matter would be greatly appreciated!</li></ol>

dngrmse
10-28-2015, 02:43 PM
I agree. DPS-wise, Delidrae is a bit underwhelming. I was, however, laboring under the assumption that the version we see now is just beta, and live will be different.

Netharius
10-28-2015, 04:20 PM
Hi dngrmse,<br /><br />That's a reasonable assumption, although what concerns me is that this problem is also applicable to the AoM Heroic-dropped Elite mercs, such as Lady Belizabart Killigrump (Brigand) and Zun Tek'Xakra (Troubador), who are also inferior (DPS-wise) to Kluuron and Lorr'Kejut...<br /><br />If Delidrae was intended to be on par with Belizabart and Zun, then she might be "working as intended" <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />... I really hope that isn't the case, and that they will consider giving her a bit of a boost before live!

Febrith
10-28-2015, 05:51 PM
I agree, she's not all that - I think of her as dreary Deidre

Therein
10-28-2015, 06:34 PM
All mercs have become really bad in all content past CoE and probably need a rework in my opinion.

Netharius
10-28-2015, 06:58 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Therein"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Therein said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6273609#post-6273609" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">All mercs have become really bad in all content past CoE and probably need a rework in my opinion.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Well, to be fair Therein, neither Kluuron V'Lorn nor Lorr'Kjut are <i>bad</i> mercs - they both <i>do</i> what they are purported to do; heal and buff, and do so well enough get through advanced solo content. No complaints there.<br /><br />The issue I have is that the "damaging" mercs are presently dealing <b><i>less</i> damage</b> than <i>any other</i> archetype...The reset of the merc types seem to do what they're supposed to - tanks taunt, healers heal etc., but the scouts and mages? Well, they do neither of those things (but you wouldn't expect them to) and can't DPS either <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" /><br /><br />We still have 3 weeks til this goes live, so there's still time for the Devs to hear our pleas and give Delidrae a little boost <img src="/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" />

Sephris
10-28-2015, 07:05 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Therein"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Therein said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6273609#post-6273609" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">All mercs have become really bad in all content past CoE and probably need a rework in my opinion.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Are the Epic merc's still the best ones to have? Matri for straight Dps, Kenny for heals, and Perrin for cures?

Netharius
10-28-2015, 07:14 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Sephris"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Sephris said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6273678#post-6273678" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Are the Epic merc's still the best ones to have? Matri for straight Dps, Kenny for heals, and Perrin for cures?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Unfortunately not <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />...the Elite world mercs (I have Kenny and Matri) are obsolete, and while better than common mercs you can hire from major cities, they are inferior to Kluuron or the AoM Heroic-dropped Elite mercs.<br /><br />The only other merc that can compete with Lorr'Kejut is The Sublime Blade-Vicar (rare Archon merc from the random mercenary crates).<br /><br />Katastra seems to be on par with the 10-year veteran mercs, and the rare fight mercs from the random merc crates are on par with Daeron Ashenwing (ToV CE merc) or Werner Thunderkeg (Rum Cellar dropped merc).<br /><br />The rare Dirge merc is about on par with Delidrae, which is to say that it's useless <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />...

Drax
10-30-2015, 10:45 AM
I have to agree that a 75K 'Damaging' merc is pretty feeble and definitely warrants a rethink by the Dev team please.<br /> <br />A boost up to 500 - 800K is hardly likely to create balance issues but would offer a great deal of help to some low DPS classes to work their way through the new Sig Quest and AS zones.<br /> <br />It may well be that what we are currently seeing in beta doesn't properly reflect what is planned for the live Xpac but, in the absence of info from DBG, everyone is just left guessing. Some official word on this issue would be very welcome please.

Netharius
10-30-2015, 12:13 PM
<b>TL;DR</b><i> - This merc doesn't DPS, doesn't heal well, and generates a little aggro, but not enough to complete with a good DPSer. There are other posts that claim otherwise, but I've yet to see any data to substantiate their claims, and have posted my own. Read on if you're interested in the details...</i><span style="text-decoration: underline"><br /><br /><b>Update October 30, 2015:</b></span><br /><br />I've had chance to Delidrae on both my copied-from-live characters and new beta-buffed ones. While other players have asserted that she's heals and tanks in <b><span style="text-decoration: underline"><a href="https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq2/index.php?threads/what-class-is-the-new-mercenary.564929/" class="internalLink">another post</a></span></b>, Gninja responded to that one and confirmed that she's a <b>Brigand/Wizard</b> (similar to Matri Dut).<br /><br />The poster above makes some claims which I <span style="text-decoration: underline"><i><b>cannot agree with</b></i></span>, given my experience and the figures I've collected. My intent in creating this thread was two fold:<br /><ol><li>To <b>highlight</b> what I believe to be a gap in the current mercenary offerings and provide evidence to substantiate my assertions.<br /><br /></li><li>To provide an honest, in-depth review so that players who are considering purchasing the CE or PE editions for the mercenary can make an <b>informed</b> <b>decision</b> based on <i>real data</i>, and quell rumors and debunk misleading statements.</li></ol><br /><b>Beta Disclaimer:</b><br /><i>As I've said many times before, I'm aware that this is Beta and that things can and do change rapidly. I hope that the merc that goes live is <span style="text-decoration: underline">NOT</span> the one we see now. That said, all data, statistics and other information are what's currently on beta as of the writing of this review. Updates will be made as more information becomes available.</i><br /><br /><br /><span style="font-size: large"><b>Delidrae, the Ineffible Thorn</b></span><br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>Introduction</b></span><br /><i><b><br /><img src="http://i63.tinypic.com/2rmocvm.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /><br />Delidrae</b>, "the Ineffible Thorn"</i> is a Glauefaye "Damaging" Elite mercenary that comes with the <i>Collector's</i> and <i>Premium</i> editions of the Terrors of Thalumbra expansion, set to release <i>live</i> on <b>November 17th, 2015</b>. She can be hired from the <b>Qeynos</b> or <b>Freeport</b> Mercenary Dens for 5pp with a 50gp upkeep.<br /><br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>Her Unbuffed Stats (@ Level 100 in ToT)</b></span><br /><img src="http://i63.tinypic.com/34nkvp4.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>List of Abilities and Descriptions:<br /><br /><img src="http://i68.tinypic.com/2myzojk.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /></b></span><br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b></b></span><br /><b><span style="text-decoration: underline">Initial Impressions:</span></b><br /><br />The results above were from running Fabled EoF Advanced Solos, so I decided to take Delidrae through the paces in ToT. In overland quests, she averaged about 40-50k DPS (less than in a mob-dense environment). While she was able to hold aggro against my beta-buffed Templar, my copied Necromancer had no issues pulling aggro from her.<br /><br />While some of her abilities <i>do</i> lifetap as you can see above, this merc is NOT a healer, and any spikes in HPS seemed to be situational as this is not part of her standard rotation (due to long recast times).<br /><br /><br /><b><span style="text-decoration: underline">ToT Advanced Solos:</span></b><br /><br />Delidrae's performance in Advanced Solos was no better, and I eventually had to abandon using her as I was unable to complete Maldura: Algorithm Destruction using her as a partner for my Necromancer. Her DPS remained in the 50-80k range, and never hit above 100k in <i>any</i> encounter.<br /><br /><br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>Conclusion:<br /></b></span>A damaging merc is a <i><b>great concept</b></i>, and would fill a <i>big</i> gap in the current mercenary offerings, especially useful to healers and tanks. Unfortunately, Delidrae (in Beta, at this time) does hold up to that promise. <br /><br />So far, I've logged <i>several hours</i> of playtime with Delidrae using both beta-buffed <i>and</i> beta copied characters. In order to be useful, she's going to have to hit a lot harder than she does now. Healer mercs, just as Kluuron V'lorn and Lorr'Kejut are doing <b><i>exponentially</i> <i>higher</i> DPS</b>, and heal well enough to get through ToT advanced solos if you're careful and take your time.<br /> <br /><div style="padding-left: 30px"><b>Specific issues for healers and tanks:</b> <i>My healers and tanks are defensively spec'd as I play them primarily in groups. While I don't mind the slow-and-steady slog that is getting through advanced solos with a merc, with the introduction of <b>timed quests</b>, such as those we saw in Fabled EoF Advanced Solos and now the ToT Advanced Solos, healers and tanks are at a <b>serious disadvantage</b> when another player isn't available.</i></div> <br />At this time, I<i> can't</i> recommend this merc to anyone, for <b><i>any purpose</i></b>:<br /> <br /><ul><li>It doesn't heal well enough to serve that role (and shouldn't - it's a "damaging" merc)</li><li>It can't out damage even <i>last year's</i> CE merc</li><li>It debuffs don't significantly enhance other group-member's damage</li></ul><b>I remain hopeful</b> that the Devs will take notice, and enhance Delidrae before she goes live.

dngrmse
10-30-2015, 01:44 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Netharius"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Netharius said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6273706#post-6273706" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">The rare Dirge merc is about on par with Delidrae, which is to say that it's useless <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />...</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Or as they're known colloquially, "The Swashbucklers of the Mercenary World".

dngrmse
10-30-2015, 01:46 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Netharius"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Netharius said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6273344#post-6273344" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Hi dngrmse,<br /><br />That's a reasonable assumption, although what concerns me is that this problem is also applicable to the AoM Heroic-dropped Elite mercs, such as Lady Belizabart Killigrump (Brigand) and Zun Tek'Xakra (Troubador), who are also inferior (DPS-wise) to Kluuron and Lorr'Kejut...<br /><br />If Delidrae was intended to be on par with Belizabart and Zun, then she might be "working as intended" <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />... I really hope that isn't the case, and that they will consider giving her a bit of a boost before live!</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>If Delidrae is indeed working as intended, I don't see anyone using this merc for anything...ever. Even now in beta, people have pretty much all reverted to using more powerful mercs, available from previous expansions. <br /><br />Delidrae needs to be up-tweaked, quite a bit, to make her an attractive, useful option.

SpriteGal
10-30-2015, 01:48 PM
Plus she is VERY expensive for lower levels! She is at least the same cost as the Malice mercs. A beginning player who bought the CE would not be able to make enough gold to pay her cost per 30 min. Her price needs to be made much lower. It should not be necessary for a level 30 or so using her to have to be given multiple plat from a higher level just to pay her upkeep.

dngrmse
10-30-2015, 02:28 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="SpriteGal"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">SpriteGal said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6275005#post-6275005" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Plus she is VERY expensive for lower levels! She is at least the same cost as the Malice mercs. A beginning player who bought the CE would not be able to make enough gold to pay her cost per 30 min. Her price needs to be made much lower. It should not be necessary for a level 30 or so using her to have to be given multiple plat from a higher level just to pay her upkeep.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>she'll be much less expensive at lower levels, I believe.

SpriteGal
10-30-2015, 02:46 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="dngrmse"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">dngrmse said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6275017#post-6275017" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">she'll be much less expensive at lower levels, I believe.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>No she is not. I tested it on a level 2. She is as expensive as the Malice mercs at low levels sadly.<br /> <br />I like some of the Malice mercs for my favored low levels. But I have to keep giving those characters plat to pay for the upkeep on the mercs. A CE merc should not cost much more than Mr. Born of Dragons.

dngrmse
10-30-2015, 09:39 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="SpriteGal"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">SpriteGal said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6275024#post-6275024" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">No she is not. I tested it on a level 2. She is as expensive as the Malice mercs at low levels sadly.<br /> <br />I like some of the Malice mercs for my favored low levels. But I have to keep giving those characters plat to pay for the upkeep on the mercs. A CE merc should not cost much more than Mr. Born of Dragons.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div><br />Hmmm. I must have confused myself over the cheaper initial price of mercs for lower levels. thanks for straightening me out.

Mermut
10-30-2015, 09:48 PM
When the CE dps merc from ToT is doing less dps then the CE healer merc from AoM, there is a problem with the the dps merc. She can't hold aggro off my warden and does several times less damage. If dps mercs aren't going to do at least 500k dps in end game, they're not dps mercs. Even 500k is low, but at least it's dps.

Iuvili
10-31-2015, 11:49 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Netharius"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Netharius said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6273344#post-6273344" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Hi dngrmse,<br /> <br />That's a reasonable assumption, although what concerns me is that this problem is also applicable to the AoM Heroic-dropped Elite mercs, such as Lady Belizabart Killigrump (Brigand) and Zun Tek'Xakra (Troubador), who are also inferior (DPS-wise) to Kluuron and Lorr'Kejut...<br /> <br />If Delidrae was intended to be on par with Belizabart and Zun, then she might be "working as intended" <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />... I really hope that isn't the case, and that they will consider giving her a bit of a boost before live!</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />@Nethariius<br />Have you done your number crunching before or after receiving the TS award Dedicated Censer of Confinement? it's for a secondary slot, pretty good stats in general, and does specifically improve Delidrae's fighting stats. Maybe, there is the possibility to improve the merc further.<br />Sorry, don't have a link for the item.

Netharius
10-31-2015, 12:29 PM
I have not yet, but I will check that out! I did get the other quests done and finished the bet quest mount, but haven't started on the TS quests yet.<br /><br />So to be clear, to get the reward you mentioned you do the ToT TS sig line?<br /><br />Thank you!

Iuvili
10-31-2015, 05:14 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Netharius"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Netharius said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6275703#post-6275703" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I have not yet, but I will check that out! I did get the other quests done and finished the bet quest mount, but haven't started on the TS quests yet.<br /> <br />So to be clear, to get the reward you mentioned you do the ToT TS sig line?<br /> <br />Thank you!</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />Yes, that item I talked bout is part of the TS quest timeline.<br /> <br />You will get 2 different Censers; one is not as good as the other. The one I was talking about is a reward from finishing "<b>What Lies Beneath",</b> and turning that in to Captain Ethan.<br />That is as far as I have gotten in the TS timeline. I did most of the adventure timeline first.

Netharius
10-31-2015, 05:49 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Iuvili"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Iuvili said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6275831#post-6275831" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Yes, that item I talked bout is part of the TS quest timeline.<br /> <br />You will get 2 different Censers; one is not as good as the other. The one I was talking about is a reward from finishing "<b>What Lies Beneath",</b> and turning that in to Captain Ethan.<br />That is as far as I have gotten in the TS timeline. I did most of the adventure timeline first.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Hi Iuvili,<br /><br />I believe this is the item you're thinking of?<br /><br /><img src="http://i64.tinypic.com/2lup3zb.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br /><br /><i><b>"Applies Maintained Discipline on the wearer's mercenary, increasing the mercenaries Potency and Crit Bonus by 120, Crit Chance by 200, and Flurry and Spell Doublecast by 90."</b></i><br /><br />This <i>doesn't</i> solve the issue with Delidrae. It turns her from a sub-par merc doing 80k DPS to a mediocre merc that does tops out around 200k. This buff, however, isn't exclusive to Delidrae, and works for <i>any</i> merc! As such when used with say, Kluuron, I was seeing him spike for as high as 1M DPS or more (averaged out to be about 790k DPS).<br /><br />That said, Delidrae, while better with the item, is still inferior to last year's CE Merc, and world's behind Lorr'Kejut...

Netharius
10-31-2015, 09:02 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Puten"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Puten said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6275844#post-6275844" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Is the Temporary Queue Permanent?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Sorry Puten, <br /><br />But I'm not sure what you're asking?

dngrmse
11-01-2015, 01:31 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Netharius"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Netharius said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276021#post-6276021" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Sorry Puten, <br /><br />But I'm not sure what you're asking?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Halls of Fate server is suffering from a queue, which affects f2p players. It's a temp thing, like it was with Maj'Dul....and has nothing to do with mercs, beta, or Delidrae.

Iuvili
11-01-2015, 02:18 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Netharius"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Netharius said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6275871#post-6275871" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Hi Iuvili,<br /> <br />I believe this is the item you're thinking of?<br /> <br /><img src="http://i64.tinypic.com/2lup3zb.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br /> <br /><i><b>"Applies Maintained Discipline on the wearer's mercenary, increasing the mercenaries Potency and Crit Bonus by 120, Crit Chance by 200, and Flurry and Spell Doublecast by 90."</b></i><br /> <br />This <i>doesn't</i> solve the issue with Delidrae. It turns her from a sub-par merc doing 80k DPS to a mediocre merc that does tops out around 200k. This buff, however, isn't exclusive to Delidrae, and works for <i>any</i> merc! As such when used with say, Kluuron, I was seeing him spike for as high as 1M DPS or more (averaged out to be about 790k DPS).<br /> <br />That said, Delidrae, while better with the item, is still inferior to last year's CE Merc, and world's behind Lorr'Kejut...</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />Yes, that is the item. The first word is different for each class. I didn't say that it solved "the problem"; I stated that it helped upgrade the merc, and that there might be a possibility to further upgrade the merc.....or whatever merc. I dragged Delidrae around on my Fury, and we did fine. The only thing that irritates me are the wings, which are rather large and you can't click through them.

Netharius
11-01-2015, 06:20 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Iuvili"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Iuvili said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276163#post-6276163" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Yes, that is the item. The first word is different for each class. I didn't say that it solved "the problem"; I stated that it helped upgrade the merc, and that there might be a possibility to further upgrade the merc.....or whatever merc. I dragged Delidrae around on my Fury, and we did fine. The only thing that irritates me are the wings, which are rather large and you can't click through them.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Thank you luvili!<br /> <br />I hope my reply didn't come across as dismissive or accusatory, that wasn't my intent! <img src="/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" /><br />Your suggestion was <b>very helpful</b> and well worth looking into. The feedback I shared wasn't meant to infer that what you wrote was inaccurate or uninformed; it was merely an expression of my continued disappointment in our new CE merc (when compared to the AoM CE Merc and others).<br /> <br />Although this may not have come across strongly in my reply, the item is VERY useful when used with just about <i>any other</i> merc, but especially Kluuron and Lorr'Kjut, and <b>exceeded</b> my expectations there!<br /> <br />That said, while I'm sure you didn't have any trouble getting around with that Delidrae, I would encourage you to try with Kluuron or Lorr'Kejut if you have them! They do the kind of DPS I was hoping Delidrae, but also have the added benefit of helping with cures/heals/res etc (not that you need those things on a Fury) <img src="/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" /><br /> <br />In any case, I don't think the item bridges the gap between Delidrae and previous mercs, but even if that never changes, I can always use Kluuron to get through the Advanced Solos as, <i>with this item</i>, his DPS is on par with what I <i>would have wanted</i> to see from Delidrae.<br /> <br />Anyway, <b>thanks again</b> and please do continue to share any tips you come across! As I maintained in my first post, there may be (and most certainly <i>are</i>) factors I'm not aware of, and these should be taken into account when more information is available.

Mermut
11-01-2015, 06:50 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Iuvili"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Iuvili said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276163#post-6276163" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Yes, that is the item. The first word is different for each class. I didn't say that it solved "the problem"; I stated that it helped upgrade the merc, and that there might be a possibility to further upgrade the merc.....or whatever merc. I dragged Delidrae around on my Fury, and we did fine. The only thing that irritates me are the wings, which are rather large and you can't click through them.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>The biggest downside, from a melee healer's point of view, is that I use a 2-hander. And the symbol item won't go in the ranged slot.

Netharius
11-01-2015, 06:55 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Mermut"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Mermut said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276295#post-6276295" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">The biggest downside, from a melee healer's point of view, is that I use a 2-hander. And the symbol item won't go in the ranged slot.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I hadn't thought of that, but now that you mention it, that's definitely something that could be improved <img src="/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" />

Moonpanther
11-05-2015, 09:13 PM
I'll give her a shot again and see how she does.

ZUES
11-05-2015, 09:52 PM
I made a thread about her not too long ago as well. She was doing just fine in the heals department. But I soon realized that her lifetap was only beneficial when mass pulling. And most of us turn our mercs off because when the engage in combat they somehow stop healing. She is the opposite. You need her to remain in combat to reap any heal reward. So mass pulls and combat. If your class is not capable of mass pulling then you might not see the heals and agro from this merc. Her agro is not going to show on ACT as outbound threat, it comes from her abilities only, just so you know in advance.

Moonpanther
11-05-2015, 10:53 PM
Well, while I don't have a read out of damage or other abilities, I will say that at least she seems to be doing a bit better then before. I still think my merc from AOM is better, but won't know for sure til I run the toon that has him through the paces. But she does seemed to have improved.

Moonpanther
11-06-2015, 12:50 AM
Apparently not that much better, useless on the signature quest in the adv. solo. But then again, I can't get through that advance solo either. grrrrr Those linked mobs just instantly destroy you....the merc has no chance in there.

Chrol
11-06-2015, 02:18 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Moonpanther"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Moonpanther said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6279522#post-6279522" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Apparently not that much better, useless on the signature quest in the adv. solo. But then again, I can't get through that advance solo either. grrrrr Those linked mobs just instantly destroy you....the merc has no chance in there.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Which linked mobs?<br /> <br />Also, whenever the next update hits beta, all Advanced Solo mob auto-attack damage will be reduced.

Evedia
11-06-2015, 03:53 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Chrol"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Chrol said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6279548#post-6279548" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Which linked mobs?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Dark Gears Summoners are an example, for necro/Lord anyway. Fury/Lady had no problem with them.

ZUES
11-06-2015, 05:30 AM
Are you talking about the summoners standing next to Stonerend? The summoners aren't linked, they are solo. And you don't attack Stonerend, you click the white circles only. Kill all but one summoner before you do the Stonerend clicky thing and you'll only have one to contend with when he's dead.

Netharius
11-06-2015, 05:54 AM
Hi Zues,<br /> <br />I did read your thread, and you may recall, the experience you described was <i>very different</i> from mine. So <b>radically</b> different, that I <i>wasn't sure we were even talking about the same merc</i> as you didn't mention her specifically by name.<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="ZUES"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">ZUES said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6279416#post-6279416" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I made a thread about her not too long ago as well. She was doing just fine in the heals department. But I soon realized that her lifetap was only beneficial when mass pulling. And most of us turn our mercs off because when the engage in combat they somehow stop healing. She is the opposite. You need her to remain in combat to reap any heal reward. So mass pulls and combat. If your class is not capable of mass pulling then you might not see the heals and agro from this merc. Her agro is not going to show on ACT as outbound threat, it comes from her abilities only, just so you know in advance.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I would agree that her numbers would probably be better in mob-dense circumstances, but then again, so would <i>any other merc</i>. I appreciate your post above as it provides a context for your assertions, but maintain that had you tested say Kluuron or Lorr'Kejut or the The Sublime Blade-Vicar under the <i>same conditions</i>, I am 100% certain they would all outperform this merc in both healing and DPS output as my evidence shows.<br /> <br />I think we can both agree that a damaging merc should be able to do more damage than healer merc, am I right? <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" /><br /><br />Details matter, and I do appreciate you taking time to help us understand your perspective. In this thread, I would like to see detailed feedback and comparisons. I welcome opposing views, but please offer a parse or some other evidence to substantiate your claims.<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Chrol"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Chrol said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6279376#post-6279376" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Bumping this since we need some eyes on this new merc as she's been updated!</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Thank you very much for your response! I really appreciate you guys looking into this. I'm testing her now, and will share my results shortly.

Netharius
11-06-2015, 07:32 AM
<span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>Update November 6, 2015:</b></span><br /> <br />Chrol confirmed above that there have been updates to Delidrae. I'd like to take a moment before I tackle this to thank the players and devs who have contributed valuable information to helping get this merc tuned. Unfortunately, we've still got a long way to go <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" /><br /> <br /><b>TL;DR</b> - <i>The bad news is, Delidrae is still doing sub-par DPS (compared to Kluuron), both with and without the TS Sig secondary item buff. The good news is, it may be <b>a relatively simple fix</b>. Have a look at Kluuron's attributes, defensive, offensive and melee stats (compare them to Delidrae's below).</i><br /><i>I believe that if you increase say, her DPS mod, MA and haste (giving her a little AE auto wouldn't hurt), along with boosting her attributes (I assume her primary attribute is STR?) to the 6-7k range, that might get her up to par!</i><br /><i>I did notice that the recast on some of her abilities increased, but it <span style="text-decoration: underline">hasn't really impacted her performance</span>. I've posted parses below.</i><br /><i>@Luvili - Thanks again for the tip! I will be testing with and without the TS Signature Secondary from here on out!</i><br /><i>@Zues - My tests were against 16 mobs, which I think qualifies as "mass pulling" for the purposes of testing your assertions. Unfortunately, this was counter productive for me as a Templar as I spent more time healing myself than doing damage, and is probably not going to be the best strategy for everyone. In addition, it didn't seem to have any impact on Delidrae's performance. See the parse below. In both cases, Kluuron is the clear winner by a long shot.</i><br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>Kluuron's Stats </b></span><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>without (left) and with (right) the Tradeskill Signature Secondary Item Buff</b></span><br /> <br /><img src="http://i63.tinypic.com/25a7udl.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>Delidrae's Stats & Abilities (@ Level 100) <i>Without</i> the Tradeskill Signature Secondary Item Buff</b></span><br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b><img src="http://i67.tinypic.com/6ojskw.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /></b></span></span><br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>Delidrae's Stats & Abilities (@ Level 100) <i>With</i> the Tradeskill Signature Secondary Item Buff</b></span><br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b><img src="http://i65.tinypic.com/2gtawja.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /></b></span></span><br /> <br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>Delidrae's DPS and Healing Output for ~16 mobs, <i>without</i> the TS Buff:</b></span></span><br /><img src="http://i63.tinypic.com/15x0fh0.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br />Unfortunately, the impact the changes had seems negligible as she's only doing around 86k DPS against a large group of [16] mobs. While this would work ok for an offensively spec'd tank, Delidrae still offers no advantage over other mercs.<br /> <br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>Delidrae's DPS and Healing Output for ~16 mobs, <i>with</i> the TS Buff:</b></span><br /> <br /><img src="http://i64.tinypic.com/2l8fc5f.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br />Again, while the TS buff did help, 161k is far less than what Kluuron and others were doing <i>without</i> the buff...I will post Kluuron's stats under the same testing conditions, with and without the buff.<br /> <br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>Kluuron's DPS and Healing Output for ~16 mobs, <i>without</i> the TS Buff:</b></span><br /> <br /><img src="http://i66.tinypic.com/6zsikk.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br />Kluuron without the buff still out-damages Delidrae with it <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />. Note that our combined DPS was much higher as he could also heal <i>and cure</i>, thus freeing me up do some damage, doubling my own output!<br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>Kluuron's DPS and Healing Output for ~16 mobs, <i>with</i> the TS Buff:</b></span><br /> <br /><img src="http://i65.tinypic.com/4djbd.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br />Our DPS output was a bit lower here as I'd realized that I forgot to pull the other room 4 more mobs for a total of 16, and our damage output suffered having to run back for them. <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" /><br /> <br />Here's a more typical parse (but with only 6 mobs instead of 16):<br /> <br /><img src="http://i66.tinypic.com/125jgyb.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>Conclusion:</b></span><br /> <br />Again, I am very happy Chrol chimed in - it's very reassuring to know that devs are looking into this! As I said in the TL;DR above, it seems to me that the gap might be as simple as tweaking her base stats. Try getting those to the same level as Kluuron and see how she does?

Chrol
11-06-2015, 08:52 AM
Bumping this since we need some eyes on this new merc as she's been updated!

Evedia
11-06-2015, 12:09 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="ZUES"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">ZUES said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6279604#post-6279604" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Are you talking about the summoners standing next to Stonerend? The summoners aren't linked, they are solo. And you don't attack Stonerend, you click the white circles only. Kill all but one summoner before you do the Stonerend clicky thing and you'll only have one to contend with when he's dead.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Stonerend goes down fine with crystals, but as soon as he goes me, pet and merc are pretty much one shotted which was not a problem on prior runs. Did not realize summoners could go first though, thanks.

ZUES
11-06-2015, 12:19 PM
Zonewide. I even went slow and let them hit me for a little bit before I blew them up. I wanted to give her a chance to hit the mobs and heal.<br /> <br /><img src="http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a538/Vectairy/zonewide_zpsdbwhcjgd.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br /><img src="http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a538/Vectairy/zonewide2_zpsffe5iuaj.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br /><img src="http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a538/Vectairy/zonewide3_zpspwkfj4x7.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" />

ZUES
11-06-2015, 01:13 PM
I did Bar Brawl, Algorithm and Ash as well. They were all about the same as the Valdoons above. I do not have the TS sig line done on this toon.

Drax
11-07-2015, 09:39 AM
I too appreciate Chrol chiming in on this subject.<br /> <br />The hard data published above is pretty conclusive about the very poor DPS output from Delidrae.<br /> <br />Am I correct in thinking that Zues has now come around to the consensus view that Delidrae is a hopeless DPS'er? The zonewide figure of 58K posted in the parse above seems pretty unequivocal to me.<br /> <br />The main point here is that nobody is asking for a ridiculously high DPS merc but she most certainly needs a considerable boost. As things stand to describe Delidrae as a "Damaging Merc" is downright misleading.

ZUES
11-07-2015, 12:24 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Drax"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Drax said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6280364#post-6280364" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Am I correct in thinking that Zues has now come around to the consensus view that Delidrae is a hopeless DPS'er? The zonewide figure of 58K posted in the parse above seems pretty unequivocal to me.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />I've never commented on merc dps. My post was about heals and potential tankability. I love the concept of this merc for classes that need both a healer and a tank to hold the mobs off of them. It is<b> my opinion</b> that when selecting a merc we are all torn on picking the best of the worst. They are all bad. Healers stand over you while you're dead and rarely heal, but at least they cure. Tanks only retain agro if you do like 1 dps per hour. Dps mercs do level 80 damage if you're level 30, but do level 30 damage if you're level 80.<br /> <br />Healer mercs are the only option in my opinion. Their cures are the only viable reason to even use a merc in this game.

Netharius
11-07-2015, 02:41 PM
Zues,<br /><br />With respect, Delidrae is advertised as a "damage-focused" merc:<br /> <br /><img src="http://i67.tinypic.com/1o0qa9.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /><br />You might not have been aware of that at the time of your original post, but this why I (and others) have been fixated on her damage output, and aren't very concerned about her healing and tanking capabilities (there are plenty of other mercs that fill that role, regardless of how well).<br /><br />I think it's fair to say that we've all demonstrated that Delidrae is lacking in the DPS department, and my hope was that the Devs would take notice and address this. They are, and I'm pleased to hear it!<br /><br />@Chrol,<br /><br />Please let me know when this merc is changed next, and I'll be happy to test and post my results for you.<br /><br />Thanks again!

ZUES
11-07-2015, 02:50 PM
You're correct, I did not know it was a "damaged focused merc" as this thread title implies. You're also correct in saying that this merc has very low dps. I pulled it around on my zerker and was impressed with what it was doing on the hate meter. I still have no idea how it's getting so much hate. But the lifetap and threat generation would augment higher dps very well. If Chrol could increase both the heals and dps it might be enough to persuade me to upgrade my ToT package.

Caith
11-07-2015, 10:09 PM
Delidrae was missing one of the buffs she should have had, it should be on the next beta build.

Netharius
11-08-2015, 04:57 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Caith"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Caith said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6280585#post-6280585" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Delidrae was missing one of the buffs she should have had, it should be on the next beta build.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Thank you for the update, Caith!<br /><br />I'll watch for it and test again once it goes through!

Mermut
11-08-2015, 08:20 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="ZUES"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">ZUES said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6280392#post-6280392" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I've never commented on merc dps. My post was about heals and potential tankability. I love the concept of this merc for classes that need both a healer and a tank to hold the mobs off of them. It is<b> my opinion</b> that when selecting a merc we are all torn on picking the best of the worst. They are all bad. Healers stand over you while you're dead and rarely heal, but at least they cure. Tanks only retain agro if you do like 1 dps per hour. Dps mercs do level 80 damage if you're level 30, but do level 30 damage if you're level 80.<br /> <br />Healer mercs are the only option in my opinion. Their cures are the only viable reason to even use a merc in this game.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Even my healers use healer mercs. DPS mercs don't do enough dps to matter and tank mercs can't hold aggro and even when they can they take more healing then my healer does solo.

Germs
11-09-2015, 04:28 PM
I wasn't sure I wanted to pre-order the Collector's edition because of the vague merc description and word of its poor performance. Now that she's getting adjusted I wonder if it's possible to upgrade my pre-order. is this going to be an option after launch? Or are mercs going to be available in the marketplace?

Kuulei
11-09-2015, 04:34 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Germs"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Germs said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6281180#post-6281180" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I wasn't sure I wanted to pre-order the Collector's edition because of the vague merc description and word of its poor performance. Now that she's getting adjusted I wonder if it's possible to upgrade my pre-order. is this going to be an option after launch? Or are mercs going to be available in the marketplace?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Usually after launch, they do have options to upgrade, let's hope they continue that tradition!

Netharius
11-09-2015, 06:10 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Germs"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Germs said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6281180#post-6281180" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Or are mercs going to be available in the marketplace?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>The only mercs available in the market place are the random merc crates. Unfortunately, you can't just outright buy a specific one...although that's been on the request list ^_^...

Kander
11-09-2015, 06:39 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Germs"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Germs said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6281180#post-6281180" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I wasn't sure I wanted to pre-order the Collector's edition because of the vague merc description and word of its poor performance. Now that she's getting adjusted I wonder if it's possible to upgrade my pre-order. is this going to be an option after launch? Or are mercs going to be available in the marketplace?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />You'll be able to purchase an upgrade to any of the sets on launch day. Gifting should also be activated.

Netharius
11-12-2015, 09:09 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Chrol"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Chrol said: </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">MERCENARIES<br /> <br />All tank mercenaries introduced with Altar of Malice, including all purchasable tank mercenaries and the 10-year veteran mercenary, Lord Valkiss Ssi'sh, will now hold better aggro. Paladin mercenaries remain untouched in this regard.<br /> <br /> <br />All mercenaries introduced with Altar of Malice, including all purchasable mercenaries, both 10-year veteran mercenaries and the new Terrors of Thalumbra Collector’s Edition mercenary now have increased hitpoints and resists.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />I didn't see any specific mention of Delidrae's missing buff being restored in either Tuesday's or Wednesday's patch notes, but did get a chance to test her again yesterday morning.<br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>Findings Summary:</b></span><br /> <br />Her DPS is definitely much better than before, she's consistently hitting in the 400-700k DPS range (zone-wide) with the TS-secondary buff, with occasional spikes up to 800k-1M in short bursts.<br /> <br /><b>While this puts her damage '<i>on par</i>' with AoM mercs (I'll post some comparisons later today) - she remains no better, and no worse (DPS-wise). I will review other facets (e.g. debuffing) to see what (if any) benefit she offers over other mercenary choices.<br /><br /> </b><br /><span style="text-decoration: underline"><b>Other Notes and Observations:</b></span><br /> <br />There are some issues with tying Mercenary DPS output to a <i>Relic Secondary Item</i> obtained as a Tradeskill Quest reward:<br /><ol><li>Players who aren't interested in TSing will have to level up their craft if they want to take advantage of the merc buff</li><li>Tying merc damage to an item/series of items causing future-proofing issues - either you have to create an updated item for each new expansion, or players will have to revisit the ToT TS signature to get good merc DPS. This isn't a problem per say, but adds yet another to a list of legacy quest players will want to tackle (e.g. Deity quest line, Speak as a Dragon/Jewel of the Underfoot/Epic Repercussions etc.)</li><li>Some players (as Mermut observed) use 2-handers primarily, so tying merc damage to a secondary item isn't appealing to them</li><li>Because this is a<i> Relic</i> item, players will have to choose between it and other items depending on the scenario (grouping, soloing with a merc, etc.) which means more gear to carry around, and additional equipment profiles to keep track of.</li></ol>There are a lot of different ways to tackle this:<br /><ul><li>You could make the "Maintained Discipline" buff "Enervated" in the same vein as the Epic Repercussions reward so that it could be used without equipping the secondary item (or just a spell you can scribe like the item un-adorner from AoM, or a house item you could click to receive the buff etc.)</li><li>The "Maintained Discipline" buff could be either added to the Adventure signature questline reward</li><li>The buff could be added to all AoM/ToT "damage-focused" mercs inherently, thus not requiring the secondary to be equipped.</li></ul>I'll post more later once I've had a chance to do more testing and provide some additional figures to review.

The Jones
11-12-2015, 11:24 PM
Great post Netharius.<br /> <br />I don't understand the need to be so conservative on the merc dps. This is supposed to be a DPS merc. It's one of the few things we're paying the extra $50 for. I think doubling it's current DPS isn't even overpowered. Real players will still put out higher dps by a massive margin.