PDA

View Full Version : Fighter - Feedback and Bugs


Caith
10-20-2015, 01:53 AM
Much like scouts, fighters have had a full overhaul of the damage, buffs and debuffs for many of their abilities in Terrors of Thalumbra.<br /> <br />Please post any fighter specific questions, feedback or bugs here.

Boli
10-20-2015, 09:24 PM
it appears all fighter stuff is boosted by a flat 15% regardless of type<br /> <br />Although "useless" and "outdated" abilities jst get the flat boost without change. e.g. Crusade still a tiny wis/resist buff and heretics destruction moves from 15% to 17.3% CB/POT so don't expect anything different<br /> <br />amusingly on many Spells they now say things like 114% chance to cast xxxx when you use the ability.

Caith
10-20-2015, 09:40 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Boli"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Boli said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6268529#post-6268529" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">amusingly on many Spells they now say things like 114% chance to cast xxxx when you use the ability.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />Yup, we're catching those and correcting them as we come across them. Please report specific abilities that you notice doing so.

Boli
10-20-2015, 09:45 PM
its pretty much any "percent chance" is boosted by 15% as well - loathe as I am to mention it stuff like pally myth now has DR of 11.5% Devout sacrament now reduces damage by 40.25% instead of 35%<br /> <br />I mean I like all these boosts but would prefer a more structured approach to class balancing and fighter DPS <img src="/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" />

Ironfiste
10-20-2015, 09:49 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Boli"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Boli said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6268543#post-6268543" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">its pretty much any "percent chance" is boosted by 15% as well - loathe as I am to mention it stuff like pally myth now has DR of 11.5% Devout sacrament now reduces damage by 40.25% instead of 35%<br /> <br />I mean I like all these boosts but would prefer a more structured approach to class balancing and fighter DPS <img src="/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" /></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Its the same thing with Shadowknights Furor, its 115% chance to ripost now lol

Ingerimm
10-21-2015, 07:19 AM
<span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">I could not see any changes to the paladin class up to now, what outdated skills and AA abilities, and regards their expansion? So this is probably not yet active on the beta server?</span></span></span><br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline">abilities:</span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Crusade" as already mentioned of Boli, partly outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Demonstration of Faith" in height completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Divine Inspiration" in height outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Devout Sacrament" short buff component in the amount or type completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Lay on Hands" short buff component in the amount or type partly completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Prayer of Healing" short buff component in the amount or type completely outdated</span></span></span><br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline">AA abilities and <span style="font-family: 'arial'">enhancements:</span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Combat Leadership" in height completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Aura of Leadership" in height completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Battle Leadership" in height outdated, a value of 350 to 450 or so would currently</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Fervor of Faith" in height outdated </span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Legionnaire's Mercy" in height completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Enhance: Crusade" in type completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Blessed Warding" in height completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Battle Hardening" in height or type completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Resilence" in height outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Legionnairs Focus" in height completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Cavaliers Call" in height completely outdated</span></span></span></span></span></span><br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline">epic buff:</span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Epic Repercussions: Marr's Favor" included damage proc in height and hit rate completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Epic Repercussions: Holy Avenger" the term with 10 seconds too short for effective action, outdated</span></span></span><br /> <br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">That would be something so I can think on the fly. Are we here so perhaps finally overhauls of this skills and AA points see, Caith?</span></span></span>

Boli
10-21-2015, 11:12 AM
A few more of my own thoughts: I understand all that is on the servers right now is a flat 15% boost but we are trying to push this more in the direction of numerous tweaks rather than a flat increase. (although the flat increase is welcome runnign through EVERY classes AA/spells and tweaking will make a lot of people very very happy)<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ingerimm"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ingerimm said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6268851#post-6268851" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><span style="text-decoration: underline">abilities:</span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Crusade" as already mentioned of Boli, partly outdated</span></span></span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>* Wisdom value is low (~120 I think enhanced when priests have average of 6-10k each.<br />* Resist value laughable (~300 when resists are close to 200k)<br />* Increase heal is a potency buff - so 5% heal potency when people are/will be pushing 2000%<br /> <br />Overall not worth casting, even the fact its raid wide does not boost it up.<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ingerimm"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ingerimm said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6268851#post-6268851" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Demonstration of Faith" in height completely outdated</span></span></span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I presume you mean scope/power rather than height -even massively increased in potency its only going to be a 50k ward on a 2million health slow to cast and expired before the recovery time has even finished.<br /> <br />This should be changed to a defensive buff (with a regenerating ward component)<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ingerimm"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ingerimm said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6268851#post-6268851" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Divine Inspiration" in height outdated</span></span></span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>It has always been a very poor proc; the massive increase to dps over the last few years has just made it into laughable. the only enhancements have been to "make it proc more" - changing it to a 100% proc (perhaps with a small hate componant if caster) would not be game breaking but actually make the pally feel good about actually having this ability.<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ingerimm"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ingerimm said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6268851#post-6268851" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Devout Sacrament" short buff component in the amount or type completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Lay on Hands" short buff component in the amount or type partly completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Prayer of Healing" short buff component in the amount or type completely outdated</span></span></span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I presume you are talking about the health boost to the paladin/group once cast - in this I agree for Lay on Hands and Devout Sacramanet it should be maxhealth% rather than 1k extra health on a 2M healthpool<br /> <br />As far as Prayer of Healing is concerned I think the recast is too short - right now enhanced (through focus and AA) its 19% max health every 9 (4.5) seconds. (there are already complaints in pvp) I say you change this line completely to a Heal over time which gives a nice buff when up. e.g. "increase healing received by 5%"<br /> <br />As for the amount? Take the druid group HoT - make it recast 60s (duration 20s) and the amount should be 10% of the value of a real druid heal BUT with potency / crits allowed. (Fury group HoT 752 - 920 / 2seconds | Paladin group HoT 75-92 / 4seconds)<br /> <br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ingerimm"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ingerimm said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6268851#post-6268851" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Fervor of Faith" in height outdated </span></span></span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>All AA which grant crit chance should be changed to give higher bonuses to generate legendary/mythical crits OR just be changed to a flat out increase final combat art and/or spell damage boost<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ingerimm"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ingerimm said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6268851#post-6268851" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><span style="text-decoration: underline">AA abilities and <span style="font-family: 'arial'">enhancements:</span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Combat Leadership" in height completely outdated</span></span></span><br /> <br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Aura of Leadership" in height completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Battle Leadership" in height outdated, a value of 350 to 450 or so would currently</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Legionnaire's Mercy" in height completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Enhance: Crusade" in type completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Blessed Warding" in height completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Battle Hardening" in height or type completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Resilence" in height outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Legionnairs Focus" in height completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Cavaliers Call" in height completely outdated</span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Also:<br />- Concenter (focus, really ?)<br />- Knight's Leadership (32 AA to get 8% group potency and useful for one fight an expansion fear immune - just make fear immune the first AA instead of Concenter and be done with it)<br />- Enhance Intercept: mentioned many times but it reduces recast (useless) and adds a 10% heal when it expires naturally (so when it was never triggered?) - completly useless.<br /> <br />and then the paladin tree is full of AA which enhance the reuse of spells - used to be handy to cap out reuse but now all useless - its actually a challenge to pick from this tree and not waste any AA. (enhance faith strike and enhance crusade count as wasted here)<br /> <br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ingerimm"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ingerimm said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6268851#post-6268851" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><span style="text-decoration: underline">epic buff:</span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Epic Repercussions: Marr's Favor" included damage proc in height and hit rate completely outdated</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">- "Epic Repercussions: Holy Avenger" the term with 10 seconds too short for effective action, outdated</span></span></span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I honestly forgot about the holy avenger (not been on my hotbar in years) but the buff itself whilst not perfect is one of the few which scales as its 25% of our Strength. the damage is pathetic... but then sadly all mythical spell buff damage is :/<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ingerimm"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ingerimm said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6268851#post-6268851" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">That would be something so I can think on the fly. Are we here so perhaps finally overhauls of this skills and AA points see, Caith?</span></span></span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Likewise I've only added my thoughts to Paladin as an example here but there are a slew of broken/useless and AA which have been completely outstripped by gear upgrades across all classes.<br /> <br />Going through and changing/tweaking these abilities/AA/Prestige so they scale where appropriate across EVERY class will go a long way to curry favor with the entire community.<br /> <br />a perfect example is:<br /> <br />Enhance: Lay on Hands: improves reuse speed by 12seconds | Reduces Power cost by 3%<br />How to make this a viable choice would be: "at 5 ranks the power cost is removed entirely - this AA does not work in pvp combat"

Boli
10-21-2015, 11:20 AM
sorry... if like most you went tl;dr. I'll end with this:<br /> <br />There are a lot of broken/outdated/laughably small boosts granted to all classes spells/AA<br /> <br />As a community we can pretty know every ability/aa which falls under this.. and most likely up to 10 suggestions to how to fix each one raging from "overpowered" to "too stressful on servers" to "small tweaks which make them viable.<br /> <br />please review for all classes (although paladins seem especially effected) and use us.

Holyduke
10-21-2015, 02:49 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">In Terror's of Thalumbra, scouts have had a major ability power overhaul, increasing most damage, buffs and debuffs by approximately 30%</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>The above is a nice improvement to help our scout brothers.<br /> <br />15% boost for fighters is not enough. As it is playing a Guardian I need 2, if not 3 hate transfers to try to hold agro. This will put some of the lower DPS generating fighters event more behind the 8 ball. I want to stop hearing "I need to hold back because I (we) are taking hate from the tank" in raids/groups.<br /> <br />Tanks need at least 30% if not more just so we can keep up with everyone else. Speaking for our Pally brothers they need 40-50%.

Ogdinmar
10-21-2015, 10:27 PM
@holyduke I don't know as a guard I am a raid MT and able to group with dps doing 30mil dps and have no issues holding hate. in raid the only time I lose agro is when another tank is using positionals and that's really just for large groups of trash pulls. Now that's not to say I wouldn't be against a 30% lol but I don't think that its needed for the reasons your saying. I think instead of an additional % boost, individual abilities/spells/CAs need to be looked at for better functionality. But that's just my opinion.

Ingerimm
10-22-2015, 05:54 AM
@Boli<br />Thank Boli, for the deeper explanation of my words, and you're right, it affects most classes, not just the Paladins, I have had the experience, you should always speak only for their own class, so as not to annoy the players of other classes.<br /> <br />As for the AA points to shorten the reuse und castspeed of skills of all classes, I can only agree, they are a waste, because today everyone 100% reuse and 100% castspeed achieved solely by his Gear.<br /> <br />As for improvements of mana consumption, they are also irrelevant in most skills in today's mana.<br /> <br />There is now at least the third addon where we hope this everything, due to the long-term changes in the game mechanics, write / write together with justifications, etc., and a processing to improve, maybe it will work out eventually.

Ansom
10-22-2015, 08:00 AM
Any change on mit and resist curve?

Genghes
10-22-2015, 04:14 PM
I've always wanted fighter combat art damage to be based on a % of the fighters max hp. So the higher your max hp the more damage your cas will do

Boli
10-23-2015, 12:27 AM
When messing around I had a horrifying thought. the 15% compared to the 30% scout bonus might have a lot to do with the fighter offensive stance! (the potency boost could be significant)<br /> <br />I'll now like to make this clear fighter DPS should be balanced from under the DEFENSIVE stance... the offensive should give a boost yes... but not as much as it gives currently<br /> <br />The only bonuses the offensive stands should give is to if the fighter is fighting from the flank or rear.<br /> <br />personally I would remove the offensive stance entirely (put STR and +weaponskill on defensive) but give a boost to combat arts if fighting from the rear/flank.... and now consider fighter DPS to be in the "defensive" stance only and adjust accordingly.<br /> <br />remember overhealing and over taunting is *not* fun.

Ansom
10-23-2015, 12:32 AM
Scout have 30% bonus, but they nerf the melee and put a cap on cb and wdb.<br /> <br /> <br />But, atm is hard to comment without play our main.

Dedith
10-26-2015, 11:02 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ansom"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ansom said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6270351#post-6270351" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Scout have 30% bonus, but they nerf the melee and put a cap on cb and wdb.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Technically, the only 'nerf' to melee are those two caps, which only effect those that can reach them. And said 'nerf' effects all classes that melee.

q-ruf
10-26-2015, 11:49 AM
it seems very obvious they dont have the manpower to do anything substancial...<br />15% to all/most numbers in your spells! thats the most band-aid thing i have ever seen...<br />all "class balancing" this xpacwill be done through gear and it got higher potential than usual to be a huge clusterf***

Ansom
10-26-2015, 01:11 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Dedith"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Dedith said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6271887#post-6271887" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Technically, the only 'nerf' to melee are those two caps, which only effect those that can reach them. And said 'nerf' effects all classes that melee.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>New weapon have lower rating, and on cloak/belt now share The weapon/magical skill with The other item.<br /><br /><br />Talking about weapon skill... In aom dev have put skill on all belt/cloak (and remove some versione from The loot table). <br />This little change was a very big help for all tank, a big help for The hit rating... Now we will lose 600/700 skill.. I just hope The new mob will have lower resist.

Boli
10-26-2015, 03:48 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="q-ruf"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">q-ruf said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6271894#post-6271894" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">it seems very obvious they dont have the manpower to do anything substancial...<br />15% to all/most numbers in your spells! thats the most band-aid thing i have ever seen...<br />all "class balancing" this xpacwill be done through gear and it got higher potential than usual to be a huge clusterf***</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Viewing the spells really showcases it was just done as a database script sadly as there are improvements in places there really shouldn't be - below is a "fairer" list I just wrote off the top of my head using the 15% boost as a guide:<br /> <br /><div style="padding-left: 30px">Holy Ground<br />* Increased damage by 100%<br />* Forced Following AA now increases duration by 3 seconds per rank and the final rank adds an additional 2 hate positions.<br /><br />Faith Strike<br />* Increases damage by 15%<br /><br />Power Cleave<br />* Increases damage by 15%<br /><br />Penitent Kick<br />* Increases damage by 15%<br /><br />Divine Inspiration<br />Focus: Divine Inspiration & Enhance: Divine Inspiration now increase damage of the ability by 25% instead of increasing trigger chance.<br /><br />Blessed Weapon now triggers every time but off autoattacks only<br />Enhance: Blessed Weapon increases damage added by 25%<br /><br />Divine Vengeance<br />* Increases damage by 15%<br /><br />Heroic Dash<br />* Increases threat amount by 200%<br /><br />Decree<br />* Decreases base casting time to 0.5s<br /><br />Holy Strike<br />* Increases damage by 15%<br /><br />Zelous Smite<br />* Decreases base casting time to 0.5s</div> <br /><div style="padding-left: 30px"><br /></div>Yes, I purposefully missed out all the paladin blue spells and all their high damage attacks - but it is more focused approach concentrating on their directed single target attacks as well as reducing the annoyingly long cast times of the encounter abilities (a problem for all classes sadly :/)<br /> <br />The class still needs a lot more tweaking and the above is actually a less powerful boost than what is currently on beta - but in many ways I would actually prefer it.<br /> <br />in fact I'm sure every fighter class could shove up a dozen ideas on tweaking their damage output in the same line

Ogdinmar
10-26-2015, 05:50 PM
Big potency bug. I finally got my tank copied over but when he has his AA spec on his pot drops to 300 cap and it reflects in my abilities. when I remove all my AA and commit my pot returns to around what I should be minus the prestige and AA stuffs. Have had the time to tinker with it to find out what makes it bug out yet but thought I would give a heads up.

q-ruf
10-27-2015, 08:30 AM
the pot bug is connected to the wepon of the mind prestige skill (new prestige tree)

Maddestmonte
10-28-2015, 08:36 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Holyduke"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Holyduke said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6268939#post-6268939" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">The above is a nice improvement to help our scout brothers.<br /> <br />15% boost for fighters is not enough. As it is playing a Guardian I need 2, if not 3 hate transfers to try to hold agro. This will put some of the lower DPS generating fighters event more behind the 8 ball. I want to stop hearing "I need to hold back because I (we) are taking hate from the tank" in raids/groups.<br /> <br />Tanks need at least 30% if not more just so we can keep up with everyone else. Speaking for our Pally brothers they need 40-50%.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />Not sure about this. Giving easy fixes such as hate xfers, and boosting dps of tanks so they rival scouts is usually just a patch over to make it so you don't have to try as a tank. A tank should be able to hold hate without all that. Sometimes, and I don't mean this to offend, but sometimes someone is just way more talented at dps than you are at being a tank, or more geared by far, or whatever...<br /> <br />And it can be VERY tough for the average joe to judge. In my opinion even Amends should be nerfed, and then give paladins other ways to taunt or boost their hate.<br /> <br />I have no idea about the guardian, but be careful with advice like this. I don't like flat transfers. I prefer to group with tanks that can actually output hate because they are talented at playing tank...not because they were GIVEN hate by someone else that is talented at DPS.<br /><br />A guardian that goes through a zone only generating x amount of hate through dps and taunts on their own should NOT hold aggro, they should lose it, and then go back to the drawing board on playing their toon better.<br /> <br />That said, I can't speak on whether the guardian is capable of generating enough hate. I hear others saying that yes, they are.

Boli
10-28-2015, 11:10 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Maddestmonte"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Maddestmonte said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6272744#post-6272744" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Not sure about this. Giving easy fixes such as hate xfers, and boosting dps of tanks so they rival scouts is usually just a patch over to make it so you don't have to try as a tank. A tank should be able to hold hate without all that. Sometimes, and I don't mean this to offend, but sometimes someone is just way more talented at dps than you are at being a tank, or more geared by far, or whatever...</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Amends as it is only offers the paladin the option of choosing their transfer or using a transfer when one is not available; whilst this may offer a better chance of holding agro in a odd-group setting it by no means guaranteed perfect agro control. *because* paladins are given amends means our active agro skills are much lower than all the other tanks; In a fully hate speced/transfered group amends is near useless meaning effectively the paladin will generate half the hate of any other tank<br /> <br />It is less a matter of a lower talented person "riding the more talented coat-tails" more the paladin has to completely rely on their transfer to be good at their job - spiking DPS at the right time engaging correctly and staying alive - so it doesn't matter if the paladin is the "best tank in the world"; with a bad amends they are fighting a loosing battle before things even start.<br /> <br />I think *every* tank should have *some* sort of hate reducing or transferring aspect for their group (group buff/temp procing de-taunts/depositionals will help "dodgy" group setups for other tanks without impacting raiding too much) but at the same time "active hate" (dealing DPS and using taunts) should be prioritized first.<br /> <br />And I really hope it comes in the form of more DPS (note NOT scout level DPS) as fun fact: over taunting something is not fun.<br /> <br />Speaking as a paladin it is getting annoying being out parsed by templars and grinning over every afk break as you didn't bounce along the bottom of the parse window.

Maddestmonte
10-28-2015, 03:22 PM
I don't think it is perfect either. It does rely too much on another player. I dislike hate xfer in general, and what you are saying is just another reason to dislike it as a tool. ESPECIALLY to the amount that amends does. Players should rely on their own ability is the gist of what I'm trying to say. Overall group hate reduction and stuff, and transfers, those can easily be valid part of mechanics so that we don't have to deal with tanks outparsing actual dps classes, but I think group hate reduction is MORE important than xfer.<br /> <br />Why? Raid viability. xfer can be dangerous and cause aggro to go to someone it shouldn't. Meanwhile a group reduction buff can make it so that a group might even want a tank. <br /> <br />I agree it should come in the form of dps also for raid viability, but as you are saying they need to be careful not to make tanks as much dps as actual dps classes. I don't have a problem with healers being able to damage a little bit, personally, though, if that is their aa and focus. But a raid healer that is specced for heals should not be outparsing a tank class that is not main tanking and is in a full dps spec. I don't mind a raid healer SPECCED for dps beating a tank class specced for aggro though. <br /> <br />If the mechanics were perfect, that is the type of thing you'd see.

Kickya
10-29-2015, 11:31 PM
are taunts getting a revamp too? with Scout CAs going up 30% am wondering how tough it will be to hold agro if tank CAs only go up 15%<br /> <br />Hope for a 30% inc to taunts to off set this added DPS the rats are going to do hehe

Ansom
10-29-2015, 11:52 PM
or flurry and DC in belt cloack XD with mit and block, of course.

Genghes
10-30-2015, 03:12 PM
Well the scout damage increase will help tank agro from a swash/sin transfer, but I wouldn't mind seeing taunt amount of dps increase. However for a tank, as our stats increase our threat from taunts will increase with current mechanics

Raenius
10-30-2015, 06:14 PM
Just noticed that Paladins Demonstration of Faith wont take potency into account if you cast it while having subtle strikes active.<br />Re-checked it on live, where it is the same - only base value of ward applies.<br /> <br />Broken, it seems.

ZUES
10-30-2015, 06:25 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Genghes"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Genghes said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6275037#post-6275037" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Well the scout damage increase will help tank agro from a swash/sin transfer, but I wouldn't mind seeing taunt amount of dps increase. However for a tank, as our stats increase our threat from taunts will increase with current mechanics</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>It would be nice to see two things...<br />1. Swash and Sin threat transfers should include a small amount of baseline hate and aggression.<br />2. Tank hate mod that converts into something productive over 100%. Block chance, avoidance, riposte chance or damage, positional proc chance or ? Anything would be good.

Loran
10-31-2015, 06:14 AM
Has anyone found any brawler weapons to replace the FKoS shiny staff yet?

Holyduke
11-01-2015, 01:37 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Kickya"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Kickya said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6274646#post-6274646" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">are taunts getting a revamp too? with Scout CAs going up 30% am wondering how tough it will be to hold agro if tank CAs only go up 15%<br /> <br />Hope for a 30% inc to taunts to off set this added DPS the rats are going to do hehe</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>This is what I am also worried about. For those that have said just be a better tank, I am not worried about were tanks are currently. With 2, some times 3 hate transfers everything is fine. If the others who have commented are saying "I do need any hate transfers or hate gain at all in raids/groups and I can hold hate". Please teach me. When my plant, and reinforce and slow coming back snaps are down, that is it. I am not so proud that I cannot learn more.<br /> <br />We have scouts pulling in 30,000,000 DPS or over currently in raids. If they are getting a 30% increase they will be doing about 40,000,000. As a guardian when tanking heavy hitting mobs my DPS is 5,000,000-7,000,000, the 15% is going to net me 8,050,000 in the upper end. With 100% hate I will be at 16,100,000. Scouts will have to run hate reduction of 50% which will put them at 20,000,000. (These are round numbers. These are average numbers.) This is in a perfect raid where everyone is maxing out hate gain and hate reduction. Yes add hate transfer to the tank to kick us up more. Sad to say we do not always have enough hate transfers for the tanks in the raid.<br /> <br />It would be nice if the tanks were not so reliant upon hate transfers all the time. Its not fun. I am not asking for DPS to put us into T-1 range. Never said that. I am just asking to keep up with the changes that are going to happen. If scouts are getting 30%, then give us 30% so we can stay on the same playing field.

Koko
11-01-2015, 02:29 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Holyduke"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Holyduke said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276153#post-6276153" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Please teach me. ... With 100% hate I will be at ... Scouts ... hate reduction of 50% ...</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Threat procs, which are not displayed under outgoing damage, may alleviate a few of your concerns. Positional detaunts have a similar effect, in that scout threat tends to be lower than outgoing damage. Transfers are still the go-to, but I don't consider it unreasonable to have one in raid.<br /> <br />All else failing: you express your arguments clearly, shoot me a PM and I'll help you in any way I can.

Boli
11-01-2015, 10:41 AM
Actually he is detailing a common issue, he is describing a perfect setup where everyone has the perfect gain/reduction but due to the disparity between tank and scout/mage dps we are completly reliant upon others using threat reducers as well as transfers.<br /><br />At first glance you'll see "numbers match up, move along" but this is where the issue lies the numbers are not consistent.<br /><br />In previous expansions the tank is required to do more dps to "iron out those problems" do perhaps HALF the dps of the top parser.<br /><br />Except 5mdps vs 40mdps is an EIGHTH rather than HALF. Lets faxtor in taunt crits etc and perhaps we deal with doing 25% of the top parser (which effectively means doubling our dps), but tank dps is just too low, laughably so and taunts snaps and transfers become less that bonus to tip us over the edge and more a crutch which if it fails, fails spectaculy.<br /><br />This is pretty much down to gear itemisation. Whilst scouts can choose dps stats tanks are FORCED to choose defensive stats which pretty much limit any reforging and significantly curtail dps ibcreases.<br /><br />+mitigation% +health% and +block% should be either "free" stats on the gear or given at a discount in addition to all the dps boosts.<br /><br />As mentioned previously no other class has to equip gear loaded with minimum amount of +bandage% +sneak%, +fingerwaggle% just to make their skills work effectivly.<br /><br />Its a tax which has made tanking a lot less fun than it used to be. <br /><br />OVER TAUNTING IS NOT FUN.

Koko
11-01-2015, 04:21 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Boli"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Boli said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276342#post-6276342" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Actually he is detailing a common issue, ... but tank dps is just too low, ...</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I don't agree with you; my group compositions tend to suck, monk/mystic/conji/ranger/necro/dirge; my gear tends to suck, go heroics; and general consensus is that brawler damage sucks, which it does.<br /><img src="http://z13.invisionfree.com/SakuraiRO/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=22232381" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">+mitigation% +health% and +block% should be either "free" stats on the gear</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I agree with qualification: <b>these stats shouldn't be on gear</b>. They have caused all sorts of problems for everyone; not just fighters.

Vainamoinen
11-02-2015, 12:37 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Koko"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Koko said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276452#post-6276452" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I don't agree with you; my group compositions tend to suck, monk/mystic/conji/ranger/necro/dirge; my gear tends to suck, go heroics; and general consensus is that brawler damage sucks, which it does.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I'm not sure that a heroic zone parse proves much of anything here. With your chakram and ma'ael (so your gear doesn't really suck, especially for an alt) you have some significantly parse inflating procs to benefit from. Your DPS aside, we don't see what the others parses look like or how many deaths (if any) that there were. <br /> <br />Anyway, there has almost always been a lot of fear around fighters holding aggro, but it's never come up as a huge problem. Yes, my pally will have problems when there are 2 or 3 big DPS'ers in a group. Or if my amends target dies and I have to blow my snaps in one fell swoop. Otherwise, it isn't a huge issue. I have to keep my eye on the hate meter and stick to a rotation, but my DPS doesn't seem to be a make-or-break part of the equation.

Koko
11-02-2015, 01:47 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Vainamoinen"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Vainamoinen said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276734#post-6276734" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I'm not sure that a heroic zone parse proves much of anything here. With your chakram and ma'ael (so your gear doesn't really suck, especially for an alt) you have some significantly parse inflating procs to benefit from. Your DPS aside, we don't see what the others parses look like or how many deaths (if any) that there were.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Not really an atypical run, every run is similar. Some are better, some are worse, but we essentially PUG everything and take the first few that PM us. Heroic is heroic, raid is raid. Raid settings tend to have better gear, better players, better compositions, and better buffs (from more players) than heroics. Groupwide as per request.<br /><img src="http://z13.invisionfree.com/SakuraiRO/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=22232391" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">...Or if my amends target dies and I have to blow my snaps in one fell swoop.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Snaps are great for getting to the top of the list, but fairly terrible for staying there. As for amends target dying:<br /><img src="https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ae/f1/83/aef1833946bb08a9df11b8871320fab1.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br />because it is difficult to see any other way. ='(

Vainamoinen
11-02-2015, 04:15 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Koko"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Koko said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276759#post-6276759" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Not really an atypical run, every run is similar. Some are better, some are worse, but we essentially PUG everything and take the first few that PM us. Heroic is heroic, raid is raid. Raid settings tend to have better gear, better players, better compositions, and better buffs (from more players) than heroics. Groupwide as per request.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Most heroic parses are going to end up pretty skewed though. Especially if you've got gear as OP as the Chakram and a healer that's going to outparse a dirge and necro <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" /><br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Snaps are great for getting to the top of the list, but fairly terrible for staying there.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Which is why I would only use them if/when my amends target dies.<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">As for amends target dying:<br /><img src="https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ae/f1/83/aef1833946bb08a9df11b8871320fab1.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br />because it is difficult to see any other way. ='(</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>It happens. Not every amends target is the best player in the game or knows how to use amends to their DPS advantage, etc, etc...

Asmati
11-02-2015, 04:59 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Vainamoinen"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Vainamoinen said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276835#post-6276835" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Most heroic parses are going to end up pretty skewed though. Especially if you've got gear as OP as the Chakram and a healer that's going to outparse a dirge and necro <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" /></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Monk here. Leach was only 2.2M of my 31M all outgoing. In fact, take away both my ethereals and my all outgoing will go to...26M at the very worst. Chakram looks impressive on the DPS parse, but it's not significant from an overall threat scenario. Threat is fine without eths, especially when detaunts and transfers are factored in.

Boli
11-02-2015, 09:24 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Koko"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Koko said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276759#post-6276759" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Not really an atypical run, every run is similar. Some are better, some are worse, but we essentially PUG everything and take the first few that PM us. Heroic is heroic, raid is raid. Raid settings tend to have better gear, better players, better compositions, and better buffs (from more players) than heroics. Groupwide as per request</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Just looking at that particular parse means you have a massive spread of gear. the monk and mystic are much better geared than the others; Plus this zone is all AoE so this skews things even more.<br /> <br />Raid parses are not just used for raiders but sustained single target DPS against a single target; My pally has spiked to 12k DPS in the initial stages of a fight - and if the group had more DPS he would have parsed well; as it was the mobs died off asymmetrically and the parse dipped to the low 3ks.<br /> <br />On the other shoe my dirge has at times only time to engage the group pop a couple of temps and then the fight is over.<br /> <br />You really need a raid mob to view sustained group damage; spike dps is all that heroic groups are these days. (unload into a group of mobs, loot chest)<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Vainamoinen"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Vainamoinen said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276734#post-6276734" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Anyway, there has almost always been a lot of fear around fighters holding aggro, but it's never come up as a huge problem. Yes, my pally will have problems when there are 2 or 3 big DPS'ers in a group. Or if my amends target dies and I have to blow my snaps in one fell swoop. Otherwise, it isn't a huge issue. I have to keep my eye on the hate meter and stick to a rotation, but my DPS doesn't seem to be a make-or-break part of the equation.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>That's been the issue forever and personal DPS/hate from the tank is the only way to "even out" those agro issues; I mean sure you can increase taunt value on all tanks by a factor of 5; but that doesn't actually help a fighter's DPS which *is* important.<br /> <br />The scary thing is I didn't know how low my DPS was until I started gearing out and leveling up my dirge alt (note not even a T1 class and at best adequate in groups) - I had to learn all the advanced solo scripts - I didn't even KNOW there was a way to simply burn many of these mobs down without the script.

Koko
11-02-2015, 12:49 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Boli"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Boli said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276914#post-6276914" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Just looking at that particular parse means you have a massive spread of gear. the monk and mystic are much better geared than the others; Plus this zone is all AoE so this skews things even more.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div><iframe width="500" height="300" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YBRU8N9KPCc?wmode=opaque" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe><br />Heroic ethereal run trio w/ raid geared assassin + heroic geared monk/warden. No fighter ethereals, no mystic, no troub dehate/hate dump, no additional transfer, no plinks, etc. tl;dr worst case raid scenario, 'but we still have an assassin 'cause OP. Add 500-700 latency on fighter/priest because <i>apparently using Razer Comms + Streaming is bad </i>for funzies.<br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">You really need a raid mob to view sustained group damage; spike dps is all that heroic groups are these days.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Holding target during a burst >> any other time. Unless you're a guardian, bruiser, other fighter with force target effects, or have a coercer friend that can hit c-shout for you.<br /> <br />If you want, I can leave the monk AFK auto'ing a dummy and I'd expect more than 5m EncThreat/PS. Less for a paladin, granted, however amends//higher ability damage. No idea why your dirge alt out damaged your fighter main, unless you only AFK auto attack on both characters.

Boli
11-02-2015, 01:22 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Koko"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Koko said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276945#post-6276945" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Holding target during a burst >> any other time. Unless you're a guardian, bruiser, other fighter with force target effects, or have a coercer friend that can hit c-shout for you.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Spike dps in groups is everyone hitting their blue spells and their AE auto trigger a couple of times and the mobs die - it has no real meaning. Remember full sustained damage means when all debuffs are in Dots are ticking to their full extent and some classes who debuff or buff first can start to open up the taps. A raid, group burst during such a period after sustained DPS is a completely different experience. (remember, taunt values do not increase through debuffs so spike DPS and snaps are far more important)<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Koko"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Koko said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276945#post-6276945" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">If you want, I can leave the monk AFK auto'ing a dummy and I'd expect more than 5m EncThreat/PS. Less for a paladin, granted, however amends//higher ability damage. No idea why your dirge alt out damaged your fighter main, unless you only AFK auto attack on both characters.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Both have similar gear - and my pally on pure autoattack maybe 400k DPS? (no threat procs) - in fact I'm curious I'll check that when I'm at home but that sounds about right (only one damage proc and that is from a master crafted wrist)

Vainamoinen
11-02-2015, 05:06 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Asmati"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Asmati said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276842#post-6276842" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Monk here. Leach was only 2.2M of my 31M all outgoing. In fact, take away both my ethereals and my all outgoing will go to...26M at the very worst. Chakram looks impressive on the DPS parse, but it's not significant from an overall threat scenario. Threat is fine without eths, especially when detaunts and transfers are factored in.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>The point is that with that kind of DPS in that kind of group, I think hate is the least of the tanks worry (even for a monk). As an aside, the chakram proc is a lifetap so you do get a heal element to hate generation. Although relatively small, it helps. <br /> <br />I'm not really arguing that hate is a big issue at all times in the game for all tank classes. I'm saying that in certain circumstances some tanks can be put into a bad spot when it comes to maintaining their position. Part of it is the (minimal) challenge of being a tank and part of it is that some classes can be significantly handcuffed.<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Koko"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Koko said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6276945#post-6276945" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Heroic ethereal run trio w/ raid geared assassin + heroic geared monk/warden. No fighter ethereals, no mystic, no troub dehate/hate dump, no additional transfer, no plinks, etc. tl;dr worst case raid scenario, 'but we still have an assassin 'cause OP.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Worst case raid scenario indeed. Which is why you won't see it happen in 99.975% of the time. For a monk to sustain aggro in a group like that for fights easily twice as long would be fairly difficult. Not impossible, but many monks would be hard-pressed.<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">No idea why your dirge alt out damaged your fighter main, unless you only AFK auto attack on both characters.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I'm not sure how this applies to the discussion, but it would be fairly easy to have a dirge alt outparse a fighter main depending on the gear involved. If I decked out my pally in reasonably good DPS gear, I likely wouldn't touch my troub's DPS.

Boli
11-02-2015, 10:13 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Vainamoinen"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Vainamoinen said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6277064#post-6277064" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I'm not sure how this applies to the discussion, but it would be fairly easy to have a dirge alt outparse a fighter main depending on the gear involved. If I decked out my pally in reasonably good DPS gear, I likely wouldn't touch my troub's DPS.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Actually its a pretty good estimate of gear/DPS disparity - I'll test on beta once my dirge copies over but: pretty similar gear (This is a epic training dummy FYI)<br /> <br /><a href="http://u.eq2wire.com/soe/character_detail/876173984850" target="_blank" class="externalLink" rel="nofollow">Paladin</a> and <a href="http://u.eq2wire.com/soe/character_detail/876174301270" target="_blank" class="externalLink" rel="nofollow">Dirge</a> - I can provide screenshots of full parse if necessary<br /> <br />--------------------<br />Autoattack only<br />--------------------<br /> <br />DIRGE<br />1m51s 1,839,450.29 EncDPS<br /> <br />PALLY (Tanking Gear, Off Stance, "DPS" Spec)<br />10m48s 314,513.61 EncDPS<br />all outgoing the same<br /> <br />PALLY (Tanking Gear, Def Stance, Tank/Normal Spec)<br />16m10s 210,172.99 EncDPS<br />all outgoing the same<br /> <br />--------------------<br />Max DPS<br />--------------------<br /> <br />DIRGE<br />0m47s 4,343,183.15 EncDPS<br /> <br />PALLY (Tanking Gear, Off Stance, "DPS" Spec)<br />1m59s 1,713,372.40 EncDPS<br />(5,427,290.17 all outgoing)<br /> <br />PALLY (Tanking Gear, Def Stance, Tank/Normal Spec)<br />3m17s 1,043,294.57 EncDPS<br />(5,427,290.17 all outgoing)

Genghes
11-02-2015, 10:19 PM
That's pretty bad sadly

Koko
11-03-2015, 12:56 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Boli"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Boli said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6277411#post-6277411" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">all outgoing the same</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>This is a very big problem.<br />Anywho, I was wrong on my AFK-AA threat generation estimate. I logged on a guildie's SK (they quit) with less-than heroic equipment (i.e. < 0/4 green gems, sub level 100 green adorns, missing white adorns, etc.) and obtained the following logs. No temp clickies, adornments, dieties, grandmaster spells (I'm too cheap to use a krono for you, sorry) etc. were used. Literally whack a mole in defensive stance, I didn't even read the skill descriptions.<br /> <br /><b>Bow AFK</b><br /><img src="http://z13.invisionfree.com/SakuraiRO/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=22232438" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /><b>Sword AFK</b><br /><img src="http://z13.invisionfree.com/SakuraiRO/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=22232439" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /><b>First time I ever played a SK, 2.8m EncDPS</b><br /><img src="http://z13.invisionfree.com/SakuraiRO/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=22232440" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" />

Vainamoinen
11-03-2015, 02:55 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Koko"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Koko said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6277519#post-6277519" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">This is a very big problem.<br />Anywho, I was wrong on my AFK-AA threat generation estimate. I logged on a guildie's SK (they quit) with less-than heroic equipment (i.e. < 0/4 green gems, sub level 100 green adorns, missing white adorns, etc.) and obtained the following logs. No temp clickies, adornments, dieties, grandmaster spells (I'm too cheap to use a krono for you, sorry) etc. were used. Literally whack a mole in defensive stance, I didn't even read the skill descriptions.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>There's some glaringly obvious discrepancies between what you and Boli have to offer. Stats-wise and gear-wise. It doesn't matter if this SK quit, or if you didn't read the skills (it's usually pretty well known what most of the better skills are for various classes). I'm not sure where or why this turned into some kind of p1ssing contest, but it isn't.<br /> <br />Should Boli lrn2play? This is what I'm getting from what you're posting. Thing is, he's a tank with less than optimal gear that likely runs PuGs. You, even if you do PuG to a degree, are in a much better situation overall with a pocket-healer and gear that eclipses what Boli is running. This isn't a lrn2play situation. It's a "how does one adapt given their circumstances?" kind of situation. Humble brags don't further the conversation at all.<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Genghes"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Genghes said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6277422#post-6277422" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">That's pretty bad sadly</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Same thing applies to you.<br /> <br /> <br />Boli, there are a few things you could do that feed into your DPS without any significant lose to your survivability and/or ability to maintain hate. Some of your gear could be easily upgraded as well. This doesn't guarantee that you will hold aggro all of the time, but it should help. I have some decent gear on my pally, but I also have some pretty crappy stuff. I also don't pay him nearly as much attention as I used to... so don;t use him as any kind of template.

Koko
11-03-2015, 03:30 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Vainamoinen"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Vainamoinen said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6277604#post-6277604" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Should Boli lrn2play? This is what I'm getting from what you're posting.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>To put it bluntly - yes. There are too many fundamental mechanic oriented flaws for him to contribute in a balance oriented discussion.<br /> <br />I can explain these mechanics, which I have done before numerous times, or I can try something different that lets him discover them for himself. Here are some characters that I consider poorly geared compared to raid characters. Here they are in scenarios that we can agree are unfavorable to them. Yet the problems he is experiencing are not present. Perhaps they aren't problems after all?<br /> <br />P.S. The only time the monk loses aggro to the raid geared assassin is during a Combat Mastery + Ethereal Bow Proc + Charm'd FFU Chain in the RC Event 3rd encounter. I could blame gear or composition, but before I do either of those, I'm going to point out that Poring could have Peel'd on pull and avoided the scenario completely. #evengoodplayerscangetbetter

Vainamoinen
11-03-2015, 04:17 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Koko"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Koko said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6277620#post-6277620" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">To put it bluntly - yes. There are too many fundamental mechanic oriented flaws for him to contribute in a balance oriented discussion.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I think that his input only helps to balance the discussion. His suggestions may not be something that the devs consider, but his input can prove useful when considering the spectrum of players in the game. It would be nice if we could all be well-learned individuals in the art of EQ2 but some people just don't play that way. I find a happy medium somewhere in that spectrum. <br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I can explain these mechanics, which I have done before numerous times, or I can try something different that lets him discover them for himself. Here are some characters that I consider poorly geared compared to raid characters. Here they are in scenarios that we can agree are unfavorable to them. Yet the problems he is experiencing are not present. Perhaps they aren't problems after all?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>That's great. You've put a lot of time and effort into understanding the game and communicating it to others. The thing is, there's a fairly big gap between what you feel is "poorly geared" or "well played" versus what is out there. You can't dismiss it out of hand. You can't cater to it, either. His problems may not be universal, but they are not unique.<br /> <br />Anyway, tl;dr I think your approach is flawed. Your numbers are not. The approach, however, is where most of the value lies in this case.

Koko
11-03-2015, 05:03 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Vainamoinen"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Vainamoinen said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6277643#post-6277643" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I think that his input only helps to balance the discussion. His suggestions may not be something that the devs consider,...Anyway, tl;dr I think your approach is flawed.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Developers listening to people like him are the reason we have %hp, %mit, and %block on equipment. The exact problems he is complaining about, fighter itemization and fighter lack of damage, originated from the complaint that "fighters lack defensive options on equipment," and lack of knowledge/experience. Similarly, because of players like him insisting that we can see an improvement from <i>every</i> item HPS has skyrocketed relative to player health and we're into a "ward non-fighters or die" scenario in high end content. Now we're in a gamestate balanced around those items that everyone hates - but openly requested. Be careful what you wish for.<br /> <br />So is "lol l2p" a "nice" approach? No, it isn't. However it wasn't my first, there were numerous posts that suggested alternatives or things to consider before the blunt "l2p", including the post before last! (Hint: bow vs. 1hs EncDPS). There are numerous ways to improve that don't involve changing the balance of the game, and it is best to leave those changes to players who understand their ramifications.<br /> <br />Right now the game is <i><b>very</b></i> fighter based, and it would be better for the game if it wasn't. Even for fighters.

Ingerimm
11-03-2015, 07:08 AM
Much more important than here in the forum to rekindle a balancing discussion, which will never come to an end, it would be in my eyes, as well as already mentioned, to correct the outdated capabilities of all classes.<br /> <br />As for the balancing, so everyone has to a different view, depending on how one himself chooses his style of play.<br /> <br />Each of these perspectives has its place, advantages and disadvantages.<br /> <br />Basically, based EQ2 on the Holy Trinity => Tank, Healer, DD with the supplementary support ....<br /> <br />This has now resulted in once purely as a logical consequence:<br /> <br />Tank => survival and keep aggro<br />Healer => ensure survival<br />DD => cause Damage<br />Support => The 3 main types of classes in any form support to strengthen their success<br /> <br />...How these main functions of the classes will be implemented remains everyone left. ...<br /> <br />There is little to discuss it, to get a type of playing style is not clear, one should consider to change this, instead of asking the developers the game to their own style of play to adapt.<br /> <br />There is no perfect way of playing, which is the same for everyone.<br /> <br />It would be important to adapt the outdated capabilities of the classes already mentioned, and to make proposals on how this would be best, as well as the corresponding outdated skills, to enumerate not mentioned classes and not to get lost in pointless debates about more or less DPS of each class.<br /> <br />Because this discussion is not belonging to the beta even if you want to perform this necessarily.<br /> <br />For many years, it is always the same in the betas, each of the classes, fights to improve their skills against those of the other classes, instead of focusing on the real problem, the outdated abilities, due to the game mechanics changes.<br /> <br />Perhaps we should remind ourselves and back stronger now to do this to the actual topic.<br /> <br />But this is only my humble opinion.

Boli
11-03-2015, 09:05 AM
Incidentally please stop posting "all outgoing" - quite frankly <b>if you hold agro no-one cares about how much threat you did</b> - likewise no-one really cares how many cures or healing a healer did if you all survived; all it ends up doing is distorting a DPS parse.<br /> <br />That information, whilst fascinating and informative to the player or the raid leader after the fact doesn't kill mobs quicker - and I'm talking about fighter DPS which is too low - even with the 15% boost the gear disparity (mitigaiton% tax) and the fact fighters require more "passive" dps than scouts when they are runnign temp defensive buffs means they are still unfairly shoved to the bottom of the DPS rankings.

Tomshindo
11-03-2015, 09:51 AM
btw I hope that the ability of bruiser would be enhanced. the kind of defensive arts of BRU are less than other tanks.And Unyielding Resolve( mysycal spell of BRU) has too much long recast timer compared to other tanks.<br />And why is there no stoneskin reaction with Stone Deaf( stone skin spell) ? Probably all fighter except for BRU has stoneskin WITH stone skin reaction.

q-ruf
11-03-2015, 10:13 AM
i just checked the parse of the last time i tanked the first named in the altar of malice zone. the one mob i always tanked in full defensive gear (playing as a monk).<br />i did 2.5 million dps that fight.<br />about 15% of that came from combat arts.<br />i did not lose aggro or have problems to be 2nd on the hatelist of the two adds that spawn and memwipe the offtank with only coercer hate buff/transfer. (thats not the point i am trying to make though)<br /> <br />in full dps gear(note that my set of dps gear is incomplete) i can do about the same dps as an inquisitor co-healing a group in this prettyheavy aoe fight. (he did 15million dps that fight).<br /> <br />it is, was and will be possible to hold aggro while tanking if you, your group and your raid know what they are doing but i find it sad that when pressing combat arts in the right order is about 80% of what i do it nets me 15% of a ridiculously low dps... (the % value is not much higher when in dps gear)<br />so with the current buff of 15% my combat arts would now do 17.5% of my dps... thanks for nothing^^<br /><br />its fun to see some numbers and tanks currently are really bad at producing them in most situations. we are further away from being a contest to any support or dps class then we ever were so a little more buffing really wont hurt anyone...

Koko
11-03-2015, 12:45 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Boli"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Boli said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6277696#post-6277696" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Wow, seriously shouting l2play at lesser geared individuals is really not what i was after.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>You and the SK are about equal in terms of equipment. The SK, however, plays a relatively optimized character for that equipment and you do not. I strongly suggest you look into the stat-weight constants available from the <a href="https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq2/index.php?threads/reforging-ratios-and-stat-weight.559623/" class="internalLink">EQII census</a>. This can assist you in reforging//spec'ing your character.<br /> <br />If a few people are interested in mathematical proofs of methods to spec characters w.r.t. AA damage vs. ability modifier I can do a tutorial, PM me.<br /> <br />On the topic of priest vs. fighter damage, fighter EncDPS surpassed priest EncDPS last expansion - as per my prediction in early March. If you're interested in that discussion PM me and I'll add you to it to avoid derailing this thread. tl;dr fighters scale better with stats, and this expansion inflated stats.<br /> <br />On the of DPS dps vs. fighter dps, DPS deal more damage than fighters. I don't see this change preventing fighters from doing their job. Threat was kind of AFK-easy in AoM and perhaps this will entice the involvement of utility characters (e.g. swashbuckler, coercer, etc.) which need the help.

Holyduke
11-03-2015, 03:31 PM
<br /><br />Are you really comparing a SK DPS to a Pally's DPS? /boggle<br /><br />Anyway, tanks in Defensive gear holding hate, once the changes happen. Dev's what about this idea. If tanks are in defensive stance, can you give use some + hate gain to our defensive stance? 20%? Maybe 30%? More/less? This will increase our hate, and allow us some more freedom when it comes to reforging, and adornments. I do not want to take away the roles of those that can increase a fighters hate, but maybe this will allow tanks to have a little more freedom? Easy change? Cap is 100% so dirges and others will still be needed.

Maddestmonte
11-03-2015, 03:59 PM
This is the type of discussion I was trying to prompt. Basically my initial point was NOT saying learn to play. It was, as others are now pointing out, more that threat transfers are basically a cover up to more glaring balance issues. If those were fixed, you wouldn't even need threat transfer.

Vainamoinen
11-03-2015, 04:52 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Koko"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Koko said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6277765#post-6277765" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">You and the SK are about equal in terms of equipment. The SK, however, plays a relatively optimized character for that equipment and you do not.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I beg to differ. There are some glaring differences in gear. Some of this (adorns) are things Boli has control over and should change. Others (drops, heroic/adv. solo) are things he cannot and has to live with. <br /> <br />He can (and should) work on optimizing a fair number of things that would bring him to a better place overall. Comparing the performance of a Dodge Dart to a Challenger doesn't really illustrate anything. This is why I say your "process" of didactic illustration is flawed.<br /> <br />So, I do think Boli has gone the wrong way with respect to some of his gear (esp. adorns) and some stats. He is, in many cases, using what he has available to him to do his job. It is unfair and nonconstructive to use the DPS of that SK as any sort of measuring stick for Boli. Even if he were better "optimized".<br /> <br />What do tanks need, besides gear, to hold hate more efficiently? A well thought out rotation. Get melee stats to a place where they are as best as you can get (flurry, DPS mod., multi-attack/AoE, strikethrough/accuracy), don't interrupt auto-attacks (go with 6s imo), and cycle thru the taunts and AoE's. Find some gear that isn't too hard to obtain that procs threat and/or AoE damage. Toons will die, but no one dies IRL, so losing aggro should not weight too heavily on any tank. I know some stress about it, but a good group will work on making things easier on you rather than harder. For now we have to rely on transfers (or lack thereof) to maintain aggro in some/many encounters. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing because it helps promote "teamwork" and grouping.

Ingerimm
11-03-2015, 07:25 PM
Hello dear developers,<br /> <br />unfortunately we could now find no change in our nowadays pointless and outdated skills up.<br /> <br />So I think that this issue has not yet been adopted so far?<br /> <br />Can we possibly this addon after we now for the umpteenth time, in each of the last betas (eg ToV and AOM), in recent years, have written down everything and asked repeatedly to remedy this now finally in focus and tackle and eliminate these errors and problems?<br /> <br />It would be very nice if you could you problems even accept, because it seems to us after years as slowly as if it interested you as a developer do not, what we write together every single time again.<br /> <br />Because until now there was unfortunately no positive changes for years in terms of the issues raised today meaningless and oudated abilities.<br /> <br />Although it us every time (each Beta) says again, we are there but together write anything and you would you look after a revision.<br /> <br />What does it profit us again and again to write down everything, if in the end nothing happened?<br /> <br />I think it is unfair to us players compared to when it is used only for pure distraction to because then the new current addon, as one of you, was planned without considering our collection of problems without taking the existing problems in attack to have, at the end again goes live and we must wait for the next addon and the next Beta again, only to start the whole process over again.<br /> <br />A couple of years time, should actually have enough to us now finally be able to present a solution to the entire problems if for now, as promised, has been worked on the improvements and revisions for so long.<br /> <br />Thank you<br />Best regards<br />Ingerimm of Valor<br /> <br />P.S. Yes me are your problems, by the change of name and so on known nevertheless is it but for the most part, to the us for a long time accompanying same programmers and developers team.<br /> <br />... Let the improvements and revisions of all classes begin ...

Ganador
11-03-2015, 07:54 PM
Original prestige tree for monks, Winds of Retribution AA has a proc Winds of Vitality that reads "Increases Max Health of caster by 34.5%" when it procs the effect in the spell effects window reads 23% and in fact the proc is only increasing max health 23%.

Boli
11-03-2015, 08:13 PM
Wow, seriously shouting l2play at lesser geared individuals is really not what i was after. It was the gear/class disparity between dps as well as all outgoing. (Which only blur the issue making your parses higher).<br /><br />Pallys only really have two sets of passive threat procs, gear (have none) cavalier's cry (quite frankly need the AA elsewhere)<br /><br />Fact one: my gear sucks but it along with a few less than optimal aa choices is to try and maintain a balance. To get gear upgrades my tank is pretty much required to run defensive. If you cant survive the agro, you cant tank.<br /><br />Fact two: look at the stats carefully, and more importantly what can and cannot be reforged i might be able to squeeze a bit more dps mod or trade MA for attack speed but its pretty much maxed out. I choose 100% AE auto over that last few dps and attack speed mod. But i *had* to make that choice there was no quick fix of reforge a but of spare multi attack, as there isnt any.<br /><br />I posted two sets of parses from similarly equiped and adorned individuals. Sure my dirge is more adept/expert quality spells but i am able to reforge more gear, balance my stats better and my passive as well as my active DPS is *far* higher.<br /><br />In fact look at the all outgoing, my pally could hold agro off my dirge no problem - but thats not the point. *because* i have HAD to spec into mitigation% maxhealth% gear *just* to survive in instances (you know, to get more gear).the potential DPS of the class is pretty much bottom of the parse.<br /><br />Annoyingly as the parse shows is there is lot of ibvestment already into potency and abiltiy mod gear (it is not my choice to choose that gear it is just the best available for me) so my passive dps as well as my active "spam like crazy" dps is a huge gulf.<br /><br />Whilst this is what the devs (and scouts) want remember when tanking you would be running temp defensive buffs, stopping dps entirely watching the mobs casting bar to get your stoneskin in place and generally "tanking" so a tank can rarely go full dps in order to do their job.<br /><br />At the end of the day as a tank wishing to group i am *required* to survive agro as well as hold it and the tank gear available at least to me is so skewed towards defense that there is no cool dps procs, no spare stats to reforge, its like that belt im wearing, got the option to reforge mitigation% or block% on it and there is no other spare stat to tweak its case of "wear this and suck it up you are a tank and t allowed to DPS".<br /><br />A flat boost of 15% bonus to all fighter CAs vs 30% bonus to scout CAs is only going to widen this gap even further. In fact the only thing going for fighters this coming expansion is the WDB and crit bonus cap as it means we mught be able to move up on the passive dps the same level as scouts as they are going to be capped in this area... and thats something id rather not think about....

Koko
11-04-2015, 12:53 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Vainamoinen"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Vainamoinen said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6278009#post-6278009" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">There are some glaring differences in gear. ... It is unfair and nonconstructive to use the DPS of that SK as any sort of measuring stick for Boli.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Is it "fair" if I use a pally alt with jewelry//weapons from adv. solos/last expansion?<br /><img src="http://z13.invisionfree.com/SakuraiRO/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=22232468" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br />It is missing adorns, gems, and is reforged poorly. Fixing the obvious places it (easily) in range of the SK.<br />If you haven't noticed, I'm kind of bored with excuses. P.S. I've never played a pally either.<br />[edit]Just looked at Artea's pally AA spec, it could be improved.<br /> <br />@Ganador the %hp is relative to base health, not modified health, i.e. 120%+30% = 150%, not 156%

Vainamoinen
11-04-2015, 01:45 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Koko"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Koko said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6278371#post-6278371" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Is it "fair" if I use a pally alt with jewelry//weapons from adv. solos/last expansion?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>It's at least a much better comparison. You're still stuck in this didactic process and I'm pretty sure that it's not resonating with your audience.<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">If you haven't noticed, I'm kind of bored with excuses.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>You've willing played along. It's not really my concern how enthusiastic or bored you are with the discussion. I'm perfectly fine with where I am in the game, I'm just trying to advocate on behalf of those that don't play the game at the same level as others.

Ingerimm
11-04-2015, 04:05 AM
Here are some of the outdated AA skills and abilities using the paladin pictorially illustrated in understanding.<br /> <br />100% ability reuse speed<br />100% ability recovery speed<br />100% cast speed ability<br /> <br />achieved nowadays everyone about his gear, so are the skills Outdated. The paladin wards in which were the tank heal crit change never even not adapted to today's damage the mob and the HP of the tanks with 3,000,000 HP plus. What makes since 349 ward points was made or with 6835 ward points for the group? ridiculous really ... or even the single "ward" with just under 57000 points ... ridiculous.<br /> <br /><a href="http://www.directupload.net" target="_blank" class="externalLink" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://fs5.directupload.net/images/151104/yrjo96ac.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /></a><br /> <br /> <br /> <br /><a href="http://www.directupload.net" target="_blank" class="externalLink" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://fs5.directupload.net/images/151104/v6adkdkv.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /></a><br /> <br />other countries not covered by my proposal outdated skills and abilities would be, for example:<br /> <br />other countries not covered by my proposal outdated skills and abilities would be, for example: Marrs Favor hits example rather than the displayed value, but only with 1000-1800 points damage. If it even true, because the hit rate is not really good.<br /> <br /><a href="http://www.directupload.net" target="_blank" class="externalLink" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://fs5.directupload.net/images/151104/wrnhhra3.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /></a>

Ingerimm
11-04-2015, 06:22 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Much like scouts, <b><span style="text-decoration: underline">fighters have had a full overhaul of the damage, buffs and debuffs for many of their abilities</span></b> in Terrors of Thalumbra.<br /> <br />Please post any fighter specific questions, feedback or bugs here.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div><span style="text-decoration: underline">My questtion is:</span><br />If the so so as it is here, we can also rake exactly with all the adjustments, which I have now revealed?<br /> <br />And unfortunately there are actually more than I have listed figuratively at the moment.<br /> <br />...<br /> <br />Namely, only 2 weeks to relase or ? ... and I can here so far not seen an adjustment.<br /> <br />A couple of things are 15% true become stronger, <b><span style="text-decoration: underline">but by a full overhaul, I would say no all so far.</span></b>

Ingerimm
11-04-2015, 07:23 AM
<span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">My supplementary proposals would:</span></span></span><br /> <br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">Changes "Aura of Leadership" to a 1% grou MaxHP regenerative group ward per rank. (max. rank 10%)</span></span></span><br /> <br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">Changes the ward of "Blessings of the Paladin" to a 2% MaxHP regenerative ward per rank. (max. rank 10%)</span></span></span><br /> <br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">Changes "Demonstration of Faith" was a 50% MaxHP single ward.</span></span></span><br /> <br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">Changes "Combat Leadership" so that is 1 each trigger per rank added. (max. rank 10 Trigger)</span></span></span><br /> <br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">Changes "Battle Leadership" from a fixed skill value increase, on a percentage improvement of 1% of all existing Skills of group members per rank. (max. rank 10%)</span></span></span><br /> <br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">Changes "Legionnairs Focus" back as it once was, to 2% per rank incoming heal improvement (max. rank 16%)</span></span></span><br /> <br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">Changes "Battle Hardening" to 1% physical damage reduction per rank (max. rank 5%)</span></span></span><br /> <br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">Repair "Marrs Fury" from "Marrs Favor", so that it meets with the displayed value and let the results also seem critical.</span></span></span><br /> <br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">Changes "Crusade" to increase all stats so str, agi, int, whs and stamina in the raid, makes the resistance a 5% increase in resistance to the raid and let the heal increase for the raid as it is. Graduated as now also in quality of apperentice to ancient.</span></span></span><br /> <br />Percentage improvements have the advantage that they automatically adapt to changes in game mechanics. Such as in the new resistance progression since AoM or the new stat and skill (magic and wepanery skill points) progression since ToV.<br /> <br /><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">The things which reuse, recovery and cast speed ​​concern as described above in the base value changes.</span></span></span>

Ingerimm
11-04-2015, 08:47 AM
Dear developers,<br /> <br />Make it simple but, much is likely to be exactly adapted for example, without cause major problems and outdated to transform to actual:<br /> <br />Changes all abilities and AA points of all classes:<br /> <br />- Which reduce the normal ability reuse, in the reduction of the base ability reuse<br />- Which reduce the normal recovery in base recovery reduction<br />- Which relate to the normal casting speed, in base cast speed<br />- Which relate to the as yet not converted heals or wards of tanks, in % of MaxHP wards and heals<br />- Shortbuffs and ability components that direct affect HP points, in % MaxHP or convert the HP direct in stamina<br />- Which increases direct mana points in % MaxMP or convert the MP direct in main stat<br /> <br />and so on, so you have all classes and nearly all outdated or useless nowadays AA points and abilities quickly adjusted accordingly.<br /> <br />Fine-tuning the level of values ​​would follow accordingly.<br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline">Furthermore, it would give the addon a madman pushing because each class and each player would have to reconsider its AA points in the entire system from scratch in order to optimize its Char, thus exactly what this addon completely missing.</span><br /> <br /><span style="text-decoration: underline">The factor I have to think about what I do and how I do it when I am dealing with my character.</span><br /> <br /><b><span style="text-decoration: underline">It's just a well-intentioned advice, which would make them happy for sure a lot of players.</span></b><br /> <br />Chance would have only individual not affected by this proposed system capabilities and AA points which are still outdated adjust accordingly rangy, but the rough mass of outdated skills, is completely killed by this system.

Boli
11-04-2015, 10:33 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Koko"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Koko said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6278371#post-6278371" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">If you haven't noticed, I'm kind of bored with excuses.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>* I know my gear is not optimal<br />* I know I should really sort out some adorns and move a few stats around<br />* I simply cba sorting it as I haven't tanked a zone in a couple of months as this game ripped the fun out of tanking<br />* even if I could be bothered it would all change in the new expansion anyways... why waste the plat.<br /> <br />But then, my dirges gear/adorns/aa is not optimal either; tbh I was still using a few adepts in the spell rotation on my dirge - I was not talking or even bothered about "oh noes I do ~20% less dps than I should". I was talking about the DPS disparity - the difference between my similar geared dirge and paladin - both in ease of reforging and choice of gear.<br /> <br />I only linked my classes to be as open about this as possible not to have this derail into a "u suck, learn to play ha ha"<br /> <br />------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /> <br />Ignoring the paladin examples (as clearly you do not respect my opinion) I'll use the green adorns which ALL fighter classes use.<br /> <br /><a href="http://u.eq2wire.com/item/index/2545406888" target="_blank" class="externalLink" rel="nofollow">Fighter Adorn</a> <a href="http://u.eq2wire.com/item/index/2597819034" target="_blank" class="externalLink" rel="nofollow">, Scout Adorn</a><br /> <br />First of all, yes I know that fighters can and do use the scout adorns - I have a set myself; but when you need to tank the tougher stuff - a zone where most likely you are needing upgrades for (either raid or heroic) you are most likely going to need the fighter adorns; not through choice - but circumstance.<br /> <br />(I'll multiply these by 3 so it will reflect having all 3 at max and ignoring the stats which are the same)<br /> <br />+8.7 Mitigation%<br />+21% Max Health%<br />+21.9% Strikethrough<br /> <br />Vs<br /> <br />+42% Weapon Damage Bonus<br />+42% Spell Weapon Damage Bonus<br />+180% Damage Per Second<br /> <br /> <br />Strikethrough an ability which is basically only fighter only (yes, there are a few brawler mobs with 360* defense but in general only fighters need strikethrough to maintain a decent hit rate. If fighters did not have a decent strikethrough% they would miss more - and do less DPS.<br /> <br />Max Health - stand in front of a mob and not only get hit by various AoE but also mobs autoattack -rotating your immunities or whatever you are still going to take vastly more damage than the scout classes so this is a required stat; and if your health is too low you'll get one-shotted. Whilst a DPS class can just ask for a rez - do it too often as a tank and they will be asking for a new tank.<br /> <br />mitigation% - due to the mitigation curve this reduces physical damage; which is basically a required stat the same as max health - don't spec into it and don't bother tanking... simple as that.<br /> <br />and now you review the scout adorns.<br /> <br />weapon damage bonus - oh this is going to be capped soon so they may swap this out entirely for a different set - most fighters would kill for this bonus as we can;t get it on gear (mitigation% and weapon damage bonus are mutually exclusive stats)<br /> <br />damage per second - what with that nice vigor charm and lots of it all over your gear most scouts pushing 1k and well over the softcap for it... good for reforging though.<br /> <br />That is pretty much the difference between the two sets of gear between fighter gear "This is what you HAVE to get" and scouts (or mages for that matter) - Here is some cool stats you can add to your reforge pool.<br /> <br />It is the eq2 equivalent of buying a car; all other classes can buy whatever car they want - fighters could buy any car they want but they also have a wife, 3 kids and a dog to drive around all the time so they end up with an underpowered people carrier covered in vomit; sure they could buy the sports car or a better car but they would end up getting divorced - the best they can hope for is a sports car for the weekend; maybe taking the wife but you can't bring your entire family with you.<br /> <br />What fighters need is basically that "people carrier which handles well and a decent engine"... or in eq2 terms - gear with both tank AND dps stats on it; not only to improve the DPS but give a larger pool to reforge to balance the stats better.

Boli
11-04-2015, 10:38 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ingerimm"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ingerimm said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6278516#post-6278516" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">Repair "Marrs Fury" from "Marrs Favor", so that it <span style="text-decoration: underline">hits</span> with the displayed value and let the results also seem critical.</span></span></span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Give the amount of back and forth we had with this - sometimes it crit sometimes the 10% heal crit (which was fun for an few expansions <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" />)<br /> <br />I'm going to guess it can;t be fixed to crit without something else getting on it.<br /> <br />I would be more in favour of it basically saying "increase the damage of blessed weapon (single target proc) by 100%" instead.<br /> <br />Not only will we prob get around the same DPS gain from it critting it is also one less proc for the servers to process so it is more likely to occur <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" />

Ingerimm
11-04-2015, 11:08 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><b>New</b><br /><div style="padding-left: 30px">Ingerimm said: <a href="https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq2/index.php?goto/post&id=6278516#post-6278516" class="internalLink"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="color: #0066cc">↑</span></span></a><br /><div style="padding-left: 30px">“<span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">Repair "Marrs Fury" from "Marrs Favor", so that it <span style="text-decoration: underline">hits</span> with the displayed value and let the results also seem critical.</span></span></span>”</div>Give the amount of back and forth we had with this - sometimes it crit sometimes the 10% heal crit (which was fun for an few expansions <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" />)<br /><br />I'm going to guess it can;t be fixed to crit without something else getting on it.<br /><br />I would be more in favour of it basically saying "increase the damage of blessed weapon (single target proc) by 100%" instead.<br /><br />Not only will we prob get around the same DPS gain from it critting it is also one less proc for the servers to process so it is more likely to occur <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" /></div><a href="https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq2/index.php?members/boli.1024/" class="internalLink"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="color: #0066cc">Boli</span></span></a>,</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>That should not be the case, because of the effect "Marrs Fury" is an additional effect which is constitutes the effect "Marrs Favor", therefore this effect can be controlled and corrected by itself, without the full effect of "Marrs Favor" to change.<br /> <br />So you can "Marrs Fury" also act properly, and can act critically.<br /> <br />On the other effects of "Marrs Favor" there are no critical changes anyway, since it is only about percent reduction and percentage increase. Percentage changes are not so simple sense with multipliers, such as linking a critical impact, and this should also not be a problem.<br /> <br />Now we must wait and see whether because developers are willing to all the identified to do something or whether it remains exactly as before always. We will see.

Boli
11-04-2015, 11:34 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ingerimm"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ingerimm said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6278556#post-6278556" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">That should not be the case</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Sadly it has been, numerous times. If you recall legionaries conviction used to crit - in removing the ability to crit (e.g. not effected by any spells which do not modify it directly) the casting/recast/recovery were also locked out; there are other examples but that is the only one which I can remember off the top of my head.<br /> <br />Since we are the only class which has this effect locked out (marr's fury on the parse is laughable how low it is) it should be changed; my suggestion of just boosting the "blessed weapon" proc damage is the easiest fix but in truth if it was removed entirely no-one would really notice.<br /> <br />You are correct though in the AA/Spell choices for almost every class *all* need to be looked at I occasionally try to review them but its just too big of a job, in truth a *lot* of these spell lines can simply be deleted or merged together.<br /> <br />Faith Strike is one of my lowest parsing abilities and arranged on my hotbar to be hit "only if nothing else is up" as such it is rarely, if ever used - I've removed some AA abilities (legionaries smite) simply as I needed the space on my hotbar and only ever dig it out when I'm playing a ranged fight (hardly ever)

Ingerimm
11-04-2015, 12:40 PM
@Boli<br />That is so far correct that with the prevent the critical action of backheal were some problems in changing from the mythical buff of the paladins.<br /> <br />But on the one hand, there is now also new programmers who might be more to cope with the problem, on the other hand, the case was there something different, because of balckheal is a major component of "Marrs Favor".<br /> <br />As for "Legionnaire´s Conviction", so this is spell with intent in not direct changes then been excluded. This is since the beginning of its existence, so the only thing that was changed at some point, is that the reflected damage had not worked critically can.<br /> <br />As I recall, there was not a problem. The spell only his imaginary actual function of damage reduction was subordinated, as it was at that time rather than abused DPS tool.<br /> <br />As for your statement that it is a big task to revise all outdated abilities and AA abilities accordingly, so I'll give you quite right here.<br /> <br />However, these problems now exist not just since yesterday, but for several years.<br /> <br />Ever since ToV, actually even before that, if one is why these all look completely revise these are now more than 3 years, which have elapsed since then. I think we can expect it then but now is about time that whole to tackle. This is the umpteenth beta here is where I and many other players, again and again to explain precisely these problems, which are caused by game mechanics changes and hope for an adjustment.

Vainamoinen
11-04-2015, 05:00 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Boli"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Boli said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6278548#post-6278548" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">* I know my gear is not optimal<br />* I know I should really sort out some adorns and move a few stats around<br />* I simply cba sorting it as I haven't tanked a zone in a couple of months as this game ripped the fun out of tanking<br />* even if I could be bothered it would all change in the new expansion anyways... why waste the plat.<br /> <br />But then, my dirges gear/adorns/aa is not optimal either; tbh I was still using a few adepts in the spell rotation on my dirge - I was not talking or even bothered about "oh noes I do ~20% less dps than I should". I was talking about the DPS disparity - the difference between my similar geared dirge and paladin - both in ease of reforging and choice of gear.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>By sorting out your adorns and actually caring about what it is you're doing, you can solve your problems. The DPS disparity isn't going to go away for you if you don't actually put some effort into it.<br /> <br />Apart from the condescending tone and humble-bragging that Koko felt compelled to include in his "point", he was trying to show you that what you are saying has solutions. If you want to be a viable heroic/group tank, you're going to have to do something about your gear, adorns, AA's, etc... because <i>you can</i> hold aggro and DPS more without any fixes. You won't always hold aggro, but in most circumstances you can keep mobs focused on you.<br /> <br />Go to Skyshrine with a PL group. Pull a bunch of mobs and cycle thru a rotation to see what works and what doesn't. The hit up BBC and do the same. This will help you determine what you can do to fix things for yourself. Are you 100% hit rate? Back off on accuracy and strikethru, dump the stats elsewhere and see what happens. Can the healer keep you alive fairly easily? Dump some block chance and get some flurry. Drop some mit. and get some DPS mod. If these tweaks work, then you should be able to hold aggro <i>and </i>do more DPS.<br /> <br />CBA isn't a viable excuse for anything. You have Holy Ground and Sigil. You have the target encounter taunt & a whole bunch of AoEs to keep things under control. So if you're sloughing off the resources that are available to you and complaining, it's the equivalent of not voting and then whining about the government.

Vainamoinen
11-04-2015, 05:05 PM
Oh and what Pallies could really use is buffs/AAs that provide them with more utility for the raid/group. As it stands now, their buffs are mostly a joke. I dunno how well DGC will be able to address AA's because there are so many that are obsolete, but looking at buffs is well within the realm of feasibility.

Boli
11-04-2015, 06:15 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Vainamoinen"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Vainamoinen said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6278675#post-6278675" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">By sorting out your adorns and actually caring about what it is you're doing, you can solve your problems. The DPS disparity isn't going to go away for you if you don't actually put some effort into it.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I can and have held agro; that was never the issue and I'd spent ages reforging resorting gear new adorns different purples etc (the bank is full of them; when I say I've spent a lot of time adjusting his gear and adorns believe me.. I'm leveling up my 3rd set of green adorns up this expansion (and I only started to play again in march maybe?); and this is in addition to all my alts.<br /> <br />my issue was when I noticed that in leveling up my dirge and swapping /changing gear around it was so much easier and a much more pleasurable experience. It was more a case of "lets focus on attack speed for a bit see how that extra flurry works out , or "I'll boost up my ability mods, see if I can get higher VCs".<br /> <br />My pally was more "OK, which stats can I afford to loose"; it is that which I have the greatest issue with.<br /> <br />personal DPS for me was always the reward for a lot of time, investment and gear tweaking but as he gained more and more gear (of a defensive nature in order to survive) the dps increases have been linear compared to my other alts where it was more of an exponential growth.<br /> <br />so I pretty much gave up on him with the vain hope that hopefully.. maybe the fighter gear will be less of a straitjacket and more "fun" as it is for every other one of my toons.<br /> <br />--------------------------------------------------<br /> <br />And yeah... Pallys need a group buff which is a viable "oh that's nice the pally can being xxx in a group" it was meant ot be heretics destruction back in TSF but even that was lacking when it first came out.

Ingerimm
11-04-2015, 08:09 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">Changes "Aura of Leadership" to a 1% <span style="text-decoration: line-through">grou</span> MaxHP regenerative group ward per rank. (max. rank 10%)</span></span></span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">Changes "Aura of Leadership" to a 1% <span style="text-decoration: underline">paladins</span> MaxHP regenerative group ward per rank. (max. rank 10%)</span></span></span><br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content"><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">Repair "Marrs Fury" from "Marrs Favor", so that it <span style="text-decoration: line-through">meets</span> with the displayed value and let the results also seem critical.</span></span></span></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'arial'"><span style="color: #000000">Repair "Marrs Fury" from "Marrs Favor", so that it <span style="text-decoration: underline">hits</span> with the displayed value and let the results also seem critical.</span></span></span>

Tomshindo
11-04-2015, 10:19 PM
If the developers would change the contents of AA that as you wrote, in order to balance, other class should be changed as well.<br />Other archetype should be. Wow it seems enormous if they would have adjusted all of it on depending the changes and what we suppose to change. By the way they are busy to debug new expansion...aren't they?

Vainamoinen
11-04-2015, 11:58 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Boli"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Boli said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6278730#post-6278730" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I can and have held agro; that was never the issue and I'd spent ages reforging resorting gear new adorns different purples etc (the bank is full of them; when I say I've spent a lot of time adjusting his gear and adorns believe me.. I'm leveling up my 3rd set of green adorns up this expansion (and I only started to play again in march maybe?); and this is in addition to all my alts.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>You all but flat out said that you needed more DPS to hold aggro. That scouts/mages doing so much more DPS than your tank made it extremely difficult for you, if not impossible.<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">my issue was when I noticed that in leveling up my dirge and swapping /changing gear around it was so much easier and a much more pleasurable experience. It was more a case of "lets focus on attack speed for a bit see how that extra flurry works out , or "I'll boost up my ability mods, see if I can get higher VCs".<br /> <br />My pally was more "OK, which stats can I afford to loose"; it is that which I have the greatest issue with.<br /> <br />personal DPS for me was always the reward for a lot of time, investment and gear tweaking but as he gained more and more gear (of a defensive nature in order to survive) the dps increases have been linear compared to my other alts where it was more of an exponential growth.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>That's because the job of a scout (even bards at this point) is to provide DPS. They have their stats to focus on (Haste ---> Flurry, DPS mod. primarily, the others are fairly easy to cap), auto-attack to time and rotations to master. <br /> <br />Fighters need to stay alive with decent health, mit &/or block (it all comes with the gear, so no worries). Good healers and a half decent rotation, however, are probably the most important factor in staying alive. There are plenty of pieces out there that provide ample threat generation to add on top of taunts and passive abilities. Focusing on DPS is only viable once the gear has out-paced the content. Typically, you're not going to "progress" with max. survivability and max. DPS. So, when you have to go max. survivability you may very well end up dwelling near the bottom of the parse and might need utility to keep you on the top of the hate list. So I'm not sure why you think more DPS is necessary other than because tanks had their heyday in RoK or Sentinel's Fate or whatever.<br /> <br />Now we get to act like tanks far more than we did in the past. There's still more than enough opportunity for us to DPS when the content allows it.<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">so I pretty much gave up on him with the vain hope that hopefully.. maybe the fighter gear will be less of a straitjacket and more "fun" as it is for every other one of my toons.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Admittedly I have less fun on my Pally than I do on my Troub. But I have even more fun on my Conjie. Not necessarily because of DPS, but because I have the least amount of 'responsibility" on my conjuror. I throw up the odd stoneskin, but the rest of the time I'm simply exploding stuff. Both my paladin and troubadour require more attention to detail that I need to take a break from.<br />I like the idea that my tank is a tank. Not a plate-wearing DPS machine. I think it provides more balance all around in this regard.

Boli
11-05-2015, 12:34 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Vainamoinen"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Vainamoinen said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6278923#post-6278923" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">You all but flat out said that you needed more DPS to hold aggro. That scouts/mages doing so much more DPS than your tank made it extremely difficult for you, if not impossible.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I never said impossible; just I used DPS to "iron out the spikes"; without self DPS spikes from someone other than amends target when sigil is down the only other option is a rescue or Ire proc (or equiv) this becomes increasingly problematic but not impossible.. just an extremely thankless existence.<br /> <br />Other tanks do the same thing... except they have access to more DPS (even the guardian out damages a pally on single target) and a *lot* more rescues.<br /> <br />And there is a difference between a "tank heyday" and actually feeling you are contributing to the group DPS I've never *ever* asked for t1 assassin DPS or whatever... just being given tank gear which has a selection of DPS stats on it.. both so we can be more flexible in reforging option (currently only half the gear I own can actually be reforged as why would I reforge out of block/mitigation?) and give a boost to tank DPS<br /> <br />I have a belt I equip when needed... The <a href="http://u.eq2wire.com/item/index/2652775123" target="_blank" class="externalLink" rel="nofollow">Tar Covered Cinch</a> Other belts of its tier have 12% Flurry or 12% Double cast on it - adding say 40% Damage per second or 5% Flurry is not going to break anyone's game but it will boost up tank DPS from "pathetic" to "adequate".<br /> <br />There was a big mess up back in TSO with combined crits that suddenly healers could DPS effectively whist in their heal gear; moans, complaints, walkouts... an now its expected that healers DPS as well as possible whilst healing.. in fact they have abilities which become more effective to heal the group the more they damage. and a healer equipping "heal gear" does not impact their personal DPS whatsoever.<br /> <br />At the end of the day tanks NEED to deal damage... and it seems every effect in the game seems to prevent this. even in the "glory days" there were a few trash fights tanks could shine but speaking from experience uncurable stuns, being ported, charmed, disarmed, cursed with something and lets not forget the 40% hit rate "just because"; (It got that bad in RoK at one point) there is a lot already thrown against tanks without the added frustration of wondering if you should choose between dropping your multiattack or your AE Autoattack in your next reforge trip.

rezumezu
11-05-2015, 01:51 AM
How about giving the Guardians some love this xpac. The stone skin abilities are sorely outdated as mobs certainly dont hit once every four seconds and the majority of temps for Guardians are a couple of tick stone skins, which is really silly when yer tanking 4 - 12 mobs at once. Basically overall, Fighter abilities need to be addressed and brought up match the current content, as to be honest everyone has been pre-occupied with Hemotoxin, Focused Casting and why isnt my utility toon parsing like a brig or necro..........at the expense of classes that have needed a revamp for a long long time.<br /> <br />As for DPS Guardians are the bottom of the pool......

Vainamoinen
11-05-2015, 02:17 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Boli"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Boli said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6278945#post-6278945" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">...without self DPS spikes from someone other than amends target when sigil is down the only other option is a rescue or Ire proc (or equiv) this becomes increasingly problematic but not impossible.. just an extremely thankless existence.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Or Holy Ground or Sneering Assault, even Faithful Cry is pretty good.<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Other tanks do the same thing... except they have access to more DPS (even the guardian out damages a pally on single target) and a *lot* more rescues.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>We could use a little more love in single target scenarios but, for the same reason we have less snaps, we get to rely on Amends. We are somewhat pooched if our amends target goes down for whatever reason.<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">And there is a difference between a "tank heyday" and actually feeling you are contributing to the group DPS I've never *ever* asked for t1 assassin DPS or whatever... just being given tank gear which has a selection of DPS stats on it.. both so we can be more flexible in reforging option (currently only half the gear I own can actually be reforged as why would I reforge out of block/mitigation?) and give a boost to tank DPS</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>You wouldn't reforge out of them because the ROI is horrible. You could, however, replace a couple of those pieces with DPS pieces. EoF Fables have a plethora of choices that you might consider. You won't need all of the mit/block you can pick up all of the time. Plus, you can pull a bunch of stuff and AoE yourself up the parse ladder.<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I have a belt I equip when needed... The <a href="http://u.eq2wire.com/item/index/2652775123" target="_blank" class="externalLink" rel="nofollow">Tar Covered Cinch</a> Other belts of its tier have 12% Flurry or 12% Double cast on it - adding say 40% Damage per second or 5% Flurry is not going to break anyone's game but it will boost up tank DPS from "pathetic" to "adequate".</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>There is a silly gap w.r.t the belts and cloaks as there is no pure tank option. I dunno why, but it's no biggie. Just use the flurry belt/cloak and if your healer can't keep you up, give them the stink eye and put your tank versions on.<br /> <br />Anyway, the discrepancies are there but they are not game-breaking. If we put more DPS into the game, then the devs need to come up with ways to scale it back in certain encounters. More stuns/stifles, more charms or disarms, etc... Regardless, I'm not seeing any real reason to boost any appreciable amount.

Ingerimm
11-05-2015, 05:50 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote"> <aside> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">If the developers would change the contents of AA that as you wrote, in order to balance, other class should be changed as well.<br />Other archetype should be. Wow it seems enormous if they would have adjusted all of it on depending the changes and what we suppose to change. By the way they are busy to debug new expansion...aren't they?</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Of course, this applies to all classes and should be fully corrected. Only you can best always speak only for the class, which we know best. Therefore, I have chosen as an example the Paladin. <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" /><br /> <br />Leading to the AA points and AA abilities and abilities yet is added to many of the classes are, for example, the classes foci that there is often a normal reuse shortening with processed. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie12" alt="o_O" title="Er... what? o_O" /><br /> <br />One can only hope that the developers take the time to remove and correct the very long-standing problems and outdated abilities, caused by the changes in the game mechanics. In the end, although each class is affected, but some classes are there more other classes there are less. <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" /><br /> <br />Whether the developers will comment on the whole issue and whether they have now because it already in the works, as they wanted to tackle with Kander´s class correction information collection it recently, know only they themselves.<br /> <br />Maybe we're lucky and Caith is to submit its comments once and if not, they want us perhaps surprise short, well hope dies last to all. <img src="/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" />

Arclite
11-06-2015, 01:31 PM
Amazing isn't it that you do not see any post by warriors (specifically guardians) here. Wonder what happened to them these days?<img src="/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" /><br /> <br />Anyway here are a few feedback suggestions going into the next expansion. I have a personal list of things that can take an in-depth look but i will refrain from posting them now since they will probably be never looked at.<br /> <br /><b>In short:</b> Guardian increase in <b>single target dps</b> + <b>magical resistance</b> to group/raid members<br /> <br /><b>Detailed:</b><br /> <br /><b>Guardian tree</b><br /> <br /><b>Flurry expertise</b> – It has been 3% since the inception of focused offensive. To get to 100% flurry we need to have high amounts of AE auto attack. Not difficult to cap it like this but would be great to see this ineffective 3% to be more like 20% but gives us the chance to improve our dps in fights where multiple mobs are needed to be controlled plus something else to put points in this tree.<br /> <br /><b>Dragon tree</b><br /><b>Forward Stance > Draconic Aggressor</b>: Still has recklessness CB 1.5 increase. Not sure now if it adds 1.5 CB to offensive stances but will make sense to adjust it accordingly.<br /> <br /><b>Shadow tree >> Sentinel strike</b> is our main dps and hate dot, given the stupendous increase in T1 dps incoming, along with it, high spike mimic damage by illusionists (who are most likely never in a tank group) that occasionally rip aggro in an aggro critical boss fights, it would be nice to see a slight boost to its base damage and threat component to bring us back in-line for dps and threat output on single target.<br /> <br /> <br /><b>Shadow tree >> Consumate defender >></b> Currently, improves skill bonuses in the defensive stance by 4%, I always thought this was on the lesser side, perhaps an increase in base combat art damage is also added to that 4%?<br /> <br />Also, never quite understood if "Aggression" is independent of hate mod or is inclusive. Reducing the chance for a taunt to resist is handy but perhaps increasing the overall taunt amount for provoke and shout as well will give a better package to for this 4% increase in defensive bonuses.<br /> <br /><b>Magic Resistance:</b><br />If expansion is to continue in to the magical resist narrative then the any of the following would be helpful:<br /> <br /><b>Sentinel (guardian ability)</b><br />It is a level 62 group single target buff that grants a stoneskin to non-fighter/scout member in group. It would be great if a resistance increase to all resists is added to it. So for example either a 2-3% increase to all resists for that person or a direct value such as 1500-2000 to all resists.<br /> <br />Or better yet make this raid wide on a single non-fighter/scout class. In fights where resist checks are critical (such as Brell), this could prove useful.<br /> <br /> <br /><b>Prestige tree> Champion’s Stand:</b> Currently gives a static 10% damage reduction to group and raid healers, it would be nice to have a small magic resistance added to this as well.<br /> <br />Here is hoping to get a positive response! <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" />

Flipouille
11-07-2015, 03:26 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Boli"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Boli said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6278945#post-6278945" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">At the end of the day tanks NEED to deal damage...</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Not really.<br />You need to stay alive and protect others, so they can deal damage.<br />That is what a tank does.

Ironfiste
11-07-2015, 06:15 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Flipouille"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Flipouille said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6280445#post-6280445" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Not really.<br />You need to stay alive and protect others, so they can deal damage.<br />That is what a tank does.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Annnnnd this elementary single minded line of thinking is why raids only bring 1-2 fighters per raid.<br /> <br />Subpar to meh dps and garbage utility; unless Brawler... Just isn't any reason to bring fighters in an optimized raid setup.<br /> <br />So go spread your drivel about how fighters only need to be meat shields, stack defense and taunt mobs while you RP protect your allies.<br /> <br />smh

Koko
11-07-2015, 11:44 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ironfiste"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ironfiste said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6280501#post-6280501" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Subpar to meh dps and garbage utility; unless Brawler... Just isn't any reason to bring fighters in an optimized raid setup.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Fighter utility is generally super high. CM is neat, but it isn't "the" reason to pick one fighter over another. That said, all fighters should out-dps all priests at the current level of stat inflation (PM me to be added to the math/discussion, not copy/pasting it here to derail the thread).<br /> <br />On a similar but different note; how to play a tank<br />1. hold aggro<br />2. don't die<br /> <br />If a tank isn't holding aggro, I generally don't care if they're alive or dead.

Zanger
11-08-2015, 10:58 AM
since you made the new war runes with the proc from chakram of souls relict, nobody can wear them in raid because there are other raid supporting items that need to be weard. but all the guys that were lucky enough to get the weapon from last addon can still use the proc because its no relic. as far as i have seen from the new addon there wont be and new ranged weapon that will be nearly as good as chakram and it wont get worse because hp is going up and so the dmg is increasing. you can either make all of the war runes non relic, because for the scouts and healer its the same problem, or you let all the etheral weapons drop again in the new addon as an non relic version. well either ways it was a stupid idea from you guys to let weapons that get every addon better or stay as good as they are drop for only a few months ....

Raenius
11-08-2015, 02:11 PM
Final tier(s) of items hasnt been discoed yet, so who knows what final procs best items will offer once you have cleared ToT.

Ingerimm
11-11-2015, 06:53 AM
Still 6 days to addon, if your release is not shifted from 11/17/2015 to another date, therefore the question ... have any of overhauls we have enumerated outdated class abilities in sight? <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" />

Genghes
11-11-2015, 03:15 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ingerimm"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ingerimm said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6281848#post-6281848" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Still 6 days to addon, if your release is not shifted from 11/17/2015 to another date, therefore the question ... have any of overhauls we have enumerated outdated class abilities in sight? <img src="/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="Wink" /></span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Getting content ready imo feels a bit more important than tweaking tanks at the moment. There isn't a tank class in game that isn't welcomed on raids. The reason why scouts are are being tweaked is because some aren't being brought on raids ie swash and bl. These two get sit because what they bring is not as beneficial as extra brigs, rangers, and sins

Ingerimm
11-12-2015, 08:15 AM
Just how much Troubleshooting and elimination of outdated ridiculous skills, such as a 6825 points "groups ward" a 57000 points "single ward", and a 349 points "buff ward" and so on, to do so you like upper seen in a raid is ?<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Caith"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Caith said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6268030#post-6268030" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Much like scouts, fighters have had a full overhaul of the damage, buffs and debuffs for many of their abilities in Terrors of Thalumbra.<br />Please post any fighter specific questions, feedback or bugs here.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I refer only on the theme of Developer Caith.

Tomshindo
11-12-2015, 11:12 AM
As for those useless AA points, I think the points are ' the sacrifice' to obtain better and useful abilities or passive skills and developers think that. At present , as is often said, the greater part of AA is out of fashion and useless. However , in spite of latest expansion, we can see these things. For example, let's come up with new prestige. ’Weapon of the Mind' is the obvious sacrifice to get 'Vitality to Strength ' which is the ability to increase WDB by the percentage of caster's stamina. I think it seems for few people to use the points by themselves. That's how it is with the system of AA.I think they will change nothing with AA.<br /> <br />And some skills and spells are the same useless as those AA points. At least, in order to increase the oppotunities to use them, I think developers had better change or improve some skills. This term is important. Who uses 'Diamond Fresh ' with that content and recast? Well, Anyway I hope they can make time to think about this topic. The ' Boundaries ' of the choice of abilities is important.

q-ruf
11-12-2015, 12:22 PM
every single class has useless aa points imo there is absolutly 0 chance they will overhaul any aas before the expansion launches so...

Ingerimm
11-12-2015, 12:54 PM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Tomshindo"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Tomshindo said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6282484#post-6282484" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">As for those useless AA points, I think the points are ' the sacrifice' to obtain better and useful abilities or passive skills and developers think that. At present , as is often said, the greater part of AA is out of fashion and useless. However , in spite of latest expansion, we can see these things. For example, let's come up with new prestige. ’Weapon of the Mind' is the obvious sacrifice to get 'Vitality to Strength ' which is the ability to increase WDB by the percentage of caster's stamina. I think it seems for few people to use the points by themselves. That's how it is with the system of AA.I think they will change nothing with AA.<br /> <br />And some skills and spells are the same useless as those AA points. At least, in order to increase the oppotunities to use them, I think developers had better change or improve some skills. This term is important. Who uses 'Diamond Fresh ' with that content and recast? Well, Anyway I hope they can make time to think about this topic. The ' Boundaries ' of the choice of abilities is important.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="q-ruf"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">q-ruf said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6282507#post-6282507" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">every single class has useless aa points imo there is absolutly 0 chance they will overhaul any aas before the expansion launches so...</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Why do you let this decide not just the developers?<br /> <br />Only they know what is possible and what is not feasible. None of you can for me, nor for the developers talk to usurp without owning and speculating here more information.<br /> <br /><b><span style="text-decoration: underline">This thread has been created for the class of fighters to ask questions, provide feedback and report bugs.</span></b><br /> <br /> <br />And this has been here from some, like me, did the relevant topic. Notes, question, feedback others to question from a position which is not its own but only the developer Daybreak itself is just arrogant and unhelpful to report errors such outdated abilities and to ask for a correction.<br /> <br />All where we for our game accordingly also a monthly fee and pay the purchase price, we have a right, the bugs and errors will be corrected in our game in the foreseeable future. These include only once also problems that are ever developed only through the many game mechanics changes because the adjustments for many things / abilities were simply forgotten.<br /> <br />But since this discussion again here leads to nothing other than trolling, let's leave it here, personally I have expressed my opinion on the thread topic and now we will see what the developers in a position to solve it or not.

Holyduke
11-12-2015, 01:55 PM
Dev's. It is not to late to give fighters a 30%+/- hate gain to our defensive stance.

q-ruf
11-12-2015, 05:58 PM
30% hate gain does nothing, you can reforge to get to the cap easily...

Tomshindo
11-13-2015, 09:14 AM
Ingerimm, I have also the same idea with you, but I have the opinion, too. Let's continue the discussion about AA.<br /> <br />I think , as you wrote already, skill points on AA are too weak or useless at this moment. I suppose these 'useless' points should be valuable somehow. Then how about changing these point as dynamic scale , not as fixed points? As is same for some points on racial traits, which should be needed to be improved, I think these points should be level-scaled in accordance with status of armor/accessories. Well , how do you think with level-scale full points(10 points) have the same status as one of armors/accessories? They might be valuable then?<br /> <br />By the way , ' Diamond Fresh' should be improved. Who uses it with this effect and recast timer? At least, if no change the effect, please change the recast.( Actually I won't use it with the same effect ) Or would you improve the damage reduction from 5% to 15%, and from 30% to 45% when terminated? Someone might have said that already, this is mediocre.

Ingerimm
11-13-2015, 10:55 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Tomshindo"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Tomshindo said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6283008#post-6283008" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Ingerimm, I have also the same idea with you, but I have the opinion, too. Let's continue the discussion about AA.<br /> <br />I think , as you wrote already, skill points on AA are too weak or useless at this moment. I suppose these 'useless' points should be valuable somehow. Then how about changing these point as dynamic scale , not as fixed points? As is same for some points on racial traits, which should be needed to be improved, I think these points should be level-scaled in accordance with status of armor/accessories. Well , how do you think with level-scale full points(10 points) have the same status as one of armors/accessories? They might be valuable then?<br /> <br />By the way , ' Diamond Fresh' should be improved. Who uses it with this effect and recast timer? At least, if no change the effect, please change the recast.( Actually I won't use it with the same effect ) Or would you improve the damage reduction from 5% to 15%, and from 30% to 45% when terminated? Someone might have said that already, this is mediocre.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>+<br /> <br />It is difficult, without a feedback from the developers noted over and over again on the same things, partly over the years.<br /> <br />I've posted a few here and there, for example, the defective conditions in the increases in stats by infusers.<br />I can not imagine that you interpret it so that you need a different maximum or minimum amount of infusers for each stat me.<br />Just like all of our posts here necessary to the classes and the existing there long overhaul capabilities.<br /> <br />Unfortunately, there is neither the one nor the other things a feedback from the developers, usually is the part of the developer only things responds that not really make sense, such as whether there is or and a contested raid mob what he for a kind of mob is. Such fooling around helping anyone, they may be funny and promote mood, but they do not help to solve the problems that exist. I realize that they can not comment on anything and enumerate, but I can see no corrections, which have been carried out anywhere in the reported bugs.<br /> <br />I have reached a point where I feel like I already wrote that this beta is just a show, you do not really responded to the whole things that bring the experienced players, it does not correct that it would be recognized the enumerated errors and bugs.<br /> <br />So I think slowly it has become totally meaningless these things to bring ever discussed.<br /> <br />If a day only 5 or 10 quests or so on to be corrected by an entire programming team, for which a single programmer needed maybe 10 minutes to an hour, so this is very funny and rather confirms my assumption as it would affirm this.<br /> <br />I think we should just wait and see what comes of it, we have made our views clear and the bugs and errors pointed out, now the developers are tuned to respond and to remedy the situation, as they promise it in many years, and at the end nothing recognizable happened.

Genghes
11-13-2015, 05:57 PM
Any bruisers notice that martial leap works better on beta than live

q-ruf
11-15-2015, 08:30 AM
<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="q-ruf"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">q-ruf said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6271894#post-6271894" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">it seems very obvious they dont have the manpower to do anything substancial...<br />15% to all/most numbers in your spells! thats the most band-aid thing i have ever seen...<br />all "class balancing" this xpacwill be done through gear and it got higher potential than usual to be a huge clusterf***</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>would prefer to be wrong...

rezumezu
11-16-2015, 12:18 PM
While playing my Guardian, i expect to parse low that does not really bother me much, keeping agro can be a pain at times though with the low dps output. What really chaffs my **** is this<br /> <br />Tower of Stone - 3 tick stone skin<br />Perfect Counter - 3 tick stone skin<br />Diamond Skin - I pressed a button!<br />All one and done abilities<br /> <br />Those abilities are just crap when you have anything above a single pull... We all know the majority of linked mob encounters is the magical number 3.... So tell me i get to pull and pop a ToS it lasts wut.... one second and its gone. If DB really wants to address something then get these abilities fixed (and all other classes with outdated abilities), that would be a good starting point since we all know that improvements to DPS, itemization, stances and such most likely is not gonna happen in a meaningful way that would make tanking more enjoyable.