Hit/Miss parse vs. epic

[Microphage]

<P>I was thinking about all the discussion regarding avoidance vs. epics and realized that it was all anecdotal, no hard data. Using ACT, incoming damage I am getting <STRONG>hit</STRONG> 63.2% of the time. So, here I am with 70% avoidance and I’m only avoiding 36.8% of the attacks. Even if they are 73s I should be doing better than that. I parse as expected vs. non-epics.</P> <P> What’s happing, I think, is that my avoidance is trivialized by the unavoidable AOEs. So what are you guys parsing for hit/miss versus epics? Is it just the AOEs that are causing problems?  Most importantly, what do we do about it?</P>

[selch]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>Assuming you are not the Main Tank, all damage you get is from AoE's. You can not PARRY or DEFLECT AoE's because it is not "directed" at you, so it is just your basic BASE Defense against AOE's which value you have given is correct. In MT situations which is brawlers most likely not prefered, problem differs by mobs. All mobs & nameds might have similiar or completely different to-hit values in their tiers. To-hit value is a dice that decides if you will get hit or not no matter what your avoidance is... You can assume it like "Dexterity" of mob. Problem is mostly seen more visibile on Epic encounters because they have very high to-hit values however To-hit value is something that exist in ALL tiers of mobs, just "not-that-visible" as epic encounters. You can observe to-hit values being higher in named heroics which people tend to call "underconned" while they are "evenconned" but just having higher to-hit values.<p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>08-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:32 PM</span>

[Microphage]

<P>Definitely not the MT.  I do some pulling, so not all the hits are AOE (probably why it wasn't 100%).  And yes, one my main contentions in a previous thread was that in some cases, our avoidance appears to be trivialized by epic to-hit abilities (it may not be unique to epics but it sure shows up).  Now I'm begining to think that AOEs are the culprit.  A melee AOE gets mitigated by the plate tanks armor, while the brawler just gets thrashed.  This sounds like a pretty good place to start looking for solutions.</P>

[selch]

<div><blockquote><hr>Microphage wrote:<div></div> <p>Definitely not the MT.  I do some pulling, so not all the hits are AOE (probably why it wasn't 100%).  And yes, one my main contentions in a previous thread was that in some cases, our avoidance appears to be trivialized by epic to-hit abilities (it may not be unique to epics but it sure shows up).  Now I'm begining to think that AOEs are the culprit.  A melee AOE gets mitigated by the plate tanks armor, while the brawler just gets thrashed.  This sounds like a pretty good place to start looking for solutions.</p><hr></blockquote>Well, our mitigation mitigates AoE damage too if you compare that... Just due to leather, lower degrees... But if you compare why main defense does not, that's a question never answered, possible will never get answered.</div>

[Bladewind]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR> Assuming you are not the Main Tank, all damage you get is from AoE's. You can not PARRY or DEFLECT AoE's because it is not "directed" at you, so it is just your basic BASE Defense against AOE's which value you have given is correct. <BR><BR> <P><BR>  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You can deflect slash/crush/pierce AOEs for zero damage.  I do it frequently in Labs while doing DPS and/or off-tanking.

[selch]

<blockquote><hr>Bladewind wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>selch wrote:<BR>Assuming you are not the Main Tank, all damage you get is from AoE's. You can not PARRY or DEFLECT AoE's because it is not "directed" at you, so it is just your basic BASE Defense against AOE's which value you have given is correct. <BR><BR><P><BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You can deflect slash/crush/pierce AOEs for zero damage.  I do it frequently in Labs while doing DPS and/or off-tanking.<hr></blockquote>Correct me please, can you parry (or also riposte from those since I take it you always facing the mob)

[Bladewind]

<DIV>The last one I clearly remember.  I was facing the mob from behind and my combat log read that I deflected (definitely not parried) several aoe attacks that did slashing damage.  Everyone else in the raid who was in range was hit by every attack.  I was hit by about half of them.  The others were all deflected for zero damage.  The mob was something like 72^^^x4.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not trying to comment on the frequency of avoids, just letting you know that there are a few aoes out there that our avoidance can protect us from.</DIV>

[ToejaM t]

I think some devs need to uber buff a Brawlers mit to 10k and go stand infront of a few epics and see just how many times we're getting hit.I'td be nice to have 30secs added to the duration of our mit buffs and have some penaltys on them aswell I think to give us a little chance to tank something epic <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Microphage]

Good info.  I guess I will have to look closely at the parse data and see where it appears to be working and where it isn't working. 

[Microphage]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bladewind wrote:<BR> <DIV>The last one I clearly remember.  I was facing the mob from behind and my combat log read that I deflected (definitely not parried) several aoe attacks that did slashing damage.  Everyone else in the raid who was in range was hit by every attack.  I was hit by about half of them.  The others were all deflected for zero damage.  The mob was something like 72^^^x4.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not trying to comment on the frequency of avoids, just letting you know that there are a few aoes out there that our avoidance can protect us from.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>OK, I was out of town for a week and a half, but now I'm back and have had time to do some parsing on crushing AOEs from a single epic named mob,  The Uncaged Alzid in labs.   Merged parses reveal the following hit/miss:</P> <P>Running with 71% avoidance plus (in some runs) another tanks buff I have:</P> <P>Strike of the Massive: 63/69 - 91.3% hit rate<BR>Uncaged Stomp: 16/16 - 100% hit rate<BR>Overall:  79/85 - 92.9% hit rate</P> <P>From this data it appears to be pretty clear that avoidance does nothing against this epic mob's melee aoes.  Anybody else out there willing to post their parsed hit/miss ratios against epics?  Anecdotal reports are nice, but the hard numbers I'm seeing are not very pretty.<BR></P>