Why do I keep getting One shotted with Tsunami up?

[mr23sgte]

<DIV>I'm pulling for raid:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Pop Tsunami</DIV> <DIV>2) Pull with ranged</DIV> <DIV>3) Hit Revive</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone else seeing this?</DIV>

[Microphage]

I see it a lot, but I use body pulls.  I think their CAs are doing it.  The good news is that if I screw up and get more than one group I die so fast I don't even need to FD.:smileytongue:

[Bladewind]

You have to be in combat for ripostes to work since the last update.  Target yourself and enter combat just before popping tsunami and body pulling.

[mr23sgte]

<P>Shouldn't I still "parry" 100% of attacks if not in combat? </P> <P>Besides I usually pull with a ranged weapon - which should engage me in combat - maybe its the mobs CA's ....</P>

[Morrolan V]

<DIV>Two possibilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. You're getting nuked - tsunami does nothing against magic attacks.</DIV> <DIV>2. You're getting hit with a CA that hits for physical damage - this happens to me fairly frequently through tsunami.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the first problem, alway always use both Tsunami and Outward Calm.  Most raid MoBs will not nuke you for so much that they blow through Outward Calm and all your health.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the second problem, make sure you have backup armor and plenty of plat for repairs.  :smileymad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[selch]

<blockquote><hr>Morrolan V wrote:<DIV>Two possibilities.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>1. You're getting nuked - tsunami does nothing against magic attacks.</DIV><DIV>2. You're getting hit with a CA that hits for physical damage - this happens to me fairly frequently through tsunami.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>For the first problem, alway always use both Tsunami and Outward Calm.  Most raid MoBs will not nuke you for so much that they blow through Outward Calm and all your health.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>For the second problem, make sure you have backup armor and plenty of plat for repairs.  :smileymad:</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>1. Tsunami currently (due to a bug) does not riposte or does not even parry from anything at all if not in combat. You can try this against blue solo mobs even 2. Tsunami description says "ANY MELEE ATTACK" and that includes combat arts (does not matter what type of damage they do, cold heat whatever) and also auto-attacks. Tsunami used to be that and was working like that. With latest patches, even auto-attacks can pass it even heroics (let alone raids) (I wonder what type of dice can pass 100%<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:24 PM</span>

[Morrolan V]

<DIV>What you say is true, Selch, but the OP is correct that his ranged attack would initiate combat, so the bug can't be the problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even before the anti-riposte patch that created this problem, I would occasionally get one-shotted through tsunami by physical damage CAs from raid mobs.  Are we certain that ANY MELEE ATTACK includes CAs?  (We can all agree, I'm sure, that it SHOULD, but does it? :smileywink<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Morrolan V on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:40 PM</span>

[selch]

<div></div><div></div><img src="http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/402/tsunamiae9.jpg">No it does not... but as you said it should..."Riposte <font color="#ffff00">all Melee damage</font> from front""Parry <font color="#ffff00">all damage</font> from behind"So according to this explanation, Monk should riposte "all melee damage" that would include auto-attack, CA's and whatever from front.  Parry "all damage", since it does not clearly say "melee" or "not" even from other directions.  Since parry is something about melee attack, I'm not getting into discussion if nukes in range of tsunami or not with the word "all damage", however, it says "DAMAGE", so CA damage, auto-attack damage should not matter here which is clearly stated in Effects part "All Attacks"You know what is currently [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing  us up?  Not all CA's are "csp" damages. Like our Arctic Talon etc. are cold damages BUT in the end, they are MELEE attacks.  So considering mobs using CA's very much, should we really depend on WIS for that? It seems "melee attacks" that are C/S/P based using our "WISDOM" to take resist or mitigation or what? Then you can think, nah, if so, plate tanks would obviously take a notice that.<p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:16 PM</span>

[HydroTsuna]

<DIV>Teejay asked why the forum is so dead, I think this is one of the culprits =p </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>LOL Yeah I've been at work/work at home too and haven't gotten to play in a few weeks/months or read the forum. Coming back to the game and reading the forums... WWOWV is all I can say. Especially after </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fix me Fix me Fix me!</DIV> <DIV>wimpy wimpy wimpy!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets see this atleast somewhat fixed lol. if not fix the combat problem if not intended atleast fix the dice 100% on all melee attacks, should be just that! Period.</DIV> <P>Please don't word/nerf this.. or i'll consider canceling my account like I did all my SWG ones. I will never betray to a bruiser I played a monk in eq1 since day one and it is just not even a resolution/answer to the many problems that is the monk. come on! <P>Some stuff obviously isn't right hopefully this is one of "the things you will supposedly be looking into *cough* for brawlers*cough* avoidance *cough* *cough* I can't cough anymore.. <P><SPAN class=time_text>Like I sated in other thread I don't want special treatment. I just wan't my CA to act as the description says LOL and my class doesn't wear plate for a reason.. to avoid plain and simple. I don't want to MT no. I do want my class to act as even the text on CA's and other stuff to work as intended though and not buckle like a tin can. This has been stated in other posts by other monks... that is all...</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by HydroTsunami on <span class=date_text>08-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:40 PM</span>

[Perfidiou]

face it... the devs have left us abbandoned...    <div></div>

[selch]

<blockquote><hr>Perfidious1 wrote:face it... the devs have left us abbandoned...    <div></div><hr></blockquote>No, they are just busy with perfectising bruisers they play <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Perfidiou]

<blockquote><hr>selch wrote:<blockquote><hr>Perfidious1 wrote:face it... the devs have left us abbandoned...    <div></div><hr></blockquote>No, they are just busy with perfectising bruisers they play <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote>hehehe<div></div>

[HydroTsuna]

<P>Hmm after long time reader and thinking about it.. hmm no wonder Mr. Gaige betrayed to bruiser... seeing as how he was a die hard monk.. hhmmmmmm</P> <P>It does wonder me sometimes about the devs.. lol.. sigh...</P> <P>It's obvious we're not at the top of the list.... Thankfully the cancel button isn't too far away though =p...</P> <P>I will wait it out and see if the right thing is done if not *shrug* i'll move on.. I'm learning soe isn't eq1 anymore and are majorly slacking in aspects when it comes to games.. I won't contiue to shell out money for nerfs and boorked class for long.. no matter how much I love it... </P> <P>ala SWG--etc lol..... mm anyone who's played a few knows what I mean. Anyways rant off...</P>

[Kainsei]

I'm waiting for these new AA that will com with the next expansion. I hope we'll gain some tanking oriented AA (mit buff ? stoneskin ? hain gain ? there is a ton of possiblities for us). I've been lvling a zerker but I was bored to death. It's waay too easy to tank with warriors. <span>:smileysad:</span> <div></div>

[selch]

<blockquote><hr>Kainsei wrote:I'm waiting for these new AA that will com with the next expansion.I hope we'll gain some tanking oriented AA (mit buff ? stoneskin ? hain gain ? there is a ton of possiblities for us).I've been lvling a zerker but I was bored to death. It's waay too easy to tank with warriors. <span>:smileysad:</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Monk tanking no different than others after changes of our 2 stuns being changed to useless junk, 2 main stuns are dumbed down like all other classes, only difference plates go into battle with their constant numbers, we go into battle praying to Murphy and I would not call that a challange to us (you die or you live), it is just challange to healers.<p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>08-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:21 PM</span>

[HydroTsuna]

<P>lol more AA's? Not the answer.. </P> <P>If I don't see some headway with the monk class I surely won't be dumping more money into another expansion. By that time it'll probably be more like what no fix? Expansion.. out.. hello cancel button lol..</P>

[Cirth_Beer]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kainsei a écrit:I'm waiting for these new AA that will com with the next expansion. I hope we'll gain some tanking oriented AA (mit buff ? stoneskin ? hain gain ? there is a ton of possiblities for us). I've been lvling a zerker but I was bored to death. It's waay too easy to tank with warriors. <span>:smileysad:</span> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I'm starting a swash <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (wouhou lvl12 ! :p)</div>

[Kainsei]

<div></div>Seriously, asides from mitigation AA, I can't see any other way to make us better tanks. (don't misunderstand, we're pretty good tanks for all heroic content). Well, they could fix avoidance issues or the way raid mobs hit... but we're all aware of soe way of doing things, I don't think it'll be anytime soon. <blockquote><hr>Cirth_Beer wrote:<div>I'm starting a swash <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (wouhou lvl12 ! :p) </div><hr></blockquote>Lol, you traitor ! At least I lvled up my brig only for tradeskill. <span>:smileytongue: .</span> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Kainsei on <span class=date_text>08-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:45 AM</span>

[Cirth_Beer]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kainsei a écrit:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cirth_Beer wrote:<div>I'm starting a swash <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (wouhou lvl12 ! :p) </div><hr></blockquote>Lol, you traitor ! At least I lvled up my brig only for tradeskill. <span>:smileytongue: .</span> <hr></blockquote>Lies ! :p</div>

[Timaarit]

I think problem with Tsunami is that it does not give automatic parry/riposte. All it does is give 100% avoidance with 100% riposte for frontal hits. What this means? It means that all those unavoidable CA's will go through Tsunami whether the monk is in combat mode or not. For example my parse from labs showed that within 3 seconds, I riposted 3 hits and was then oneshotted with 9,8k slashing damage by a trash mob I was pulling. I had Tsunami and the ward up. But I guess that CA was something unavoidable. This is either a bug or crappy game mechanism since it means that plate tanks will survive that kind of pull even if he gets hit all 4 times while a monk will die even with Tsunami due to single unavoidable CA and low mitigation. <div></div>

[selch]

There is nothing like "Unavoidable CA" , even auto-attacks can even bypass Tsunami and it does not need to be "trash" or "boss" or even Epic mob.All about TO-HIT value dice roll.

[ToejaM t]

I was sceptical about this change and I made a post about it before it happened. I asked if we'd lose all outright ability to stop attacks from the front while not in combat and thats what seems to have happened.Playing in HoS solo for a giggle I popped Tsunami, hit Outward Calm and belted it through the first room - I was instantly put down for 8990 crushing damage when running at a mob that didn't even do an animation to kill me.I think basically we've got to be in combat before the frontal portion of this works and while I have no problem with that, 10.5 seconds is not a long time to succesfully use this art anymore if we have to go into combat first because mostly I use this to stop the first barrage of attacks and waste the big first hitters some mobs have (the vaquishing blow in HoF for one) and this change has made it hard to co-ordinate and its hardly a skill factor imo. I think another way for this buff to be effective is if it is a "untill cancelled" buff that only starts its countdown when the mob takes its first swing. Keeping it on the same reuse timer though and making it toggle only would solve imbalance issues.It wouldnt effect pvp either because if someone decides to take a shot at you, you'd think by 55+ (lets be serious, you take a Monk below his level and you're [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed) they'd have the ability to spot main tained buffs. Fire a range auto attack, move away and count to 10.. then engage.Yeah I to am very puzzled about Gaiges reason for changing "the guild needed one" wasn't good enough for me after all the activity I've seen from him and die hard devotion. While I played on a PvE server a friend of mine (Gaige you've spoke to him before, don't know how much though but usually in the crushbone.allmonks channel) called Stykes used to harp on about you like you were some form of god heh. He used to follow your advice to the dot and some of it I still remember today from what he used to preach to me was best. Did you turn him into a potion [Removed for Content] by any chance? Rubbed off on me, carry so many of the buggers around.I personally have no thoughts about changing to a Bruiser. I love the Monk class and when I orginally first started EQ2 I wanted to be a Monk, my friend how ever was a SK so I went to Freeport with him and picked a Warlock (sounded cool) on Everfrost. Moved to Runnyeye with Stykes when my other friend quit, Stykes and I were meant to make a char at the same time but I was working and he went ahead without me and made a Monk.. I didn't want to be the same class and figured a different class would be more helpful. Not knowing how most classes worked back then I picked a... Templar (yes a Templar to compliment a Monk lololol I know) and I've regretted that ever since. I fooking hate my Templar so much.. anyway, rambling here but the closest I'd come to Bruiser is going exile and I don't see that happening and I'd return to Qeynos if needs be but never to a Bruiser. Did I mention I won't become a Bruiser? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Timaarit]

<blockquote><hr>selch wrote:There is nothing like "Unavoidable CA" , even auto-attacks can even bypass Tsunami and it does not need to be "trash" or "boss" or even Epic mob.All about TO-HIT value dice roll.<hr></blockquote>No, autoattack will not pass Tsunami (if the monk is in combat as per current rules). And yes, there are unavoidable CA's. Those CA's can only be resisted which gives plate tanks even grteater advantage since they have higher 'resist' ( = mitigation) towards melee damage and if they fail to resist, they will still mitigate far more. And yes, all mobs have certain unavoidable CA's, it really doesn't have to be 'trash', 'boss' or even epic. But my point wasn't that. It was that white or higher con epic x4 trash will oneshot the monk using Tsunami with these CA's. After all, 100% avoidance means just that, you <strike><i>will</i></strike> should avoid 100% of incoming melee hits regardless of the TO-HIT value dice roll. Or are you trying to say that Tsunami, despite its description' is not supposed to riposte all incoming frontal melee attacks and parry the rest? You see if you are right, then Tsunami is far from what it's description says and truly bugged. Well it is bugged after the newest change but I was being oneshotted far before that was applied.<div></div>

[ToejaM t]

<div></div>I've been using my root mit buff alot, seems to help a fair bit that extra 545 mit. The 2176 mit buff that stuns you is the biggest POS ever. You can't hold aggro very well unless you rescue and even though I have a master1 rescue it just doesnt work long enough. I honestly wouldnt mind some penalitys added to the mit buffs and have them extended in duration or something but Im sure its been discussed plenty.I know Stykes IRL.. well now I do as I met him online as I joined his CS team at the time, we were clanned for I dunno.. almost 2 years? Met at an event which we won on a LAN, I started playing EQ2 when we didn't practise I got him into it. Dont see him often enough though, very good friend of mine now but lives half the country away.. been clubbing with him since. Good laugh <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><p>Message Edited by ToejaM tbh on <span class=date_text>08-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:07 AM</span>

[HydroTsuna]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <P>Ah yeah Stykes, I know him pretty well, we used to talk a lot.</P> <P>I left the monk class mostly because I wanted the increased mitigation that bruisers have available to them.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No offense but yes.. That's obvious to anyone who knows our counterpart.. That is truely the only reason to betray the beloved monk class. That statement, no offense, also sums it up about how lovely monks are.. lol and fills me with a lot of doubt... We still need more, obviously..we're lacking. As for pretty much the die hard monk person I remember you as to actually do it well like I said that statement speaks for itself. I don't blame you though.. but i'll never sell out my class i'd quit before I did that. To each his own though and thanks for the reply.. even though you are a bruiser! joking =p /bow.<p>Message Edited by HydroTsunami on <span class=date_text>08-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:57 PM</span>

[ki sensei]

<DIV>Magic damage is the only reason i can think of and that can usually be avoided with outward clam.</DIV>