AA: Altruism - Does anyone use it?

[Illustrious]

<DIV>As above. Has anyone got this AA skill and found it useful ina raid situation?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I got the following questions:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does it keep the tanks hate just like normal FD after he stands up again?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and what happens if the toon u have targetted has salvation on them? does altriusm fire first or salvation or some messed up version where both fire at the same time?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ty in advance</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Illustrious wrote:<BR> <DIV>As above. Has anyone got this AA skill and found it useful ina raid situation?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I got the following questions:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does it keep the tanks hate just like normal FD after he stands up again?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and what happens if the toon u have targetted has salvation on them? does altriusm fire first or salvation or some messed up version where both fire at the same time?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ty in advance</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>All the time for both groups and raids. My guild would have wiped on many encounters if not for altruism.</P> <P>1. Altruism only stays on the target untill it's either used up, you accidentally or intentionally click it off, or you die. Make sure you don't die, or you gotta wait 15 minutes.</P> <P>2. Yes, If you use it on a tank, they keep the agro they had when they stand up.</P> <P>3. I assume that Salvation is that 20 second spell that furies and wardens can cast that does the same effect of making sure the target doesn't die when they get killed.</P> <P>To be honest, I don't know how this works, since it's very unlikely that a druid would cast it on the tank just in time for it to work.</P>

[Gungo]

It does save raids. Especially on thsoe occasions in raids where those debuffs land that turn your MT into jello and the next hit is a 1 shot kill unless he is cured. Due to a fizzle or just an unlucky hit after that debuff lands altruism fires off saving the MT and ultimately the raid. Now the question many brawlers ask themselves is the agi line worth 24 points just to get altruism. I truly do not know. If you plan to raid mainly and do not mind losing a few hunded dps or a bit of avoid then its a great ability. What would truly make the agi line more apealing is if they turned the defense skill into mitigation then tanking brawlers and raiders would rejoice.

[auk]

Well, the AA is called Altruism... if we got all this great stuff AND the bonus at the end, it wouldnt be all that altruistic...j/k, of course.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> It does save raids. Especially on thsoe occasions in raids where those debuffs land that turn your MT into jello and the next hit is a 1 shot kill unless he is cured. Due to a fizzle or just an unlucky hit after that debuff lands altruism fires off saving the MT and ultimately the raid. Now the question many brawlers ask themselves is the agi line worth 24 points just to get altruism. I truly do not know. If you plan to raid mainly and do not mind losing a few hunded dps or a bit of avoid then its a great ability. What would truly make the agi line more apealing is if they turned the defense skill into mitigation then tanking brawlers and raiders would rejoice.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm quite happy going 5-4-4-8-8 in Agility and 4-4-4-8 in Stamina for defense.

[TheSummoned]

I had a lot of... issues... with altruism. Example: I would just put altruism on the MT to test it out. Mid fight it dispells against trash mobs that didn't even pose a challange. Poof, was gone, just like that. Was a 15 min wait to put it back on. I did ask the tank what was going on and he didn't know either. We figured that it was being dispelled by a priest or something simular. <div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheSummoned wrote:<BR>I had a lot of... issues... with altruism. Example:<BR><BR>I would just put altruism on the MT to test it out. Mid fight it dispells against trash mobs that didn't even pose a challange. Poof, was gone, just like that. Was a 15 min wait to put it back on.<BR><BR>I did ask the tank what was going on and he didn't know either. We figured that it was being dispelled by a priest or something simular.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I'm pretty sure the spell can't be debuffed. I've never had it removed unless the tank died or I died.</P> <P> </P> <P>What the heck were you fighting that it got debuffed? no raid mob I ever fight has done so.</P>

[Malad]

<P>A friend and I are doing a Monk/Bruiser duo for fun and we thought about each going down this line so we could but this buff on each other.  Thought it would really come in handy but not sure how well that would work out in the long run.</P> <P>Anybody know if you can do this or it is like martial orders where you can not put this on each other?</P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maladen wrote:<BR> <P>A friend and I are doing a Monk/Bruiser duo for fun and we thought about each going down this line so we could but this buff on each other.  Thought it would really come in handy but not sure how well that would work out in the long run.</P> <P>Anybody know if you can do this or it is like martial orders where you can not put this on each other?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>pretty sure you can't.

[Gaige]

Its not worth 8pts imho, especially if you're going defensive.

[KazzySoJaz]

One of the other monks in my guild has altruism, and to be honest I have yet to see it be effective.  Not only do I out dps him by 200-300 because of his wasted points, but also even with two nicely equipped guardians, if your mt dies, your off tank will more than likely die also. The healers arent doing their job or the mob is owning you for other reasons.Just my opinion, but altruism, as gaige said, is a waste of 8 points.str 4,4,8 (until you get 60+ dmg rating weaps for both slots then go wis)int 4,4,8sta 4,4,8That is the best setup, that I have found via parsing, for a dps monk.  If you want to be a tanker, check out gaiges eq2players pro.<div></div>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR>One of the other monks in my guild has altruism, and to be honest I have yet to see it be effective.  Not only do I out dps him by 200-300 because of his wasted points, but also even with two nicely equipped guardians, if your mt dies, your off tank will more than likely die also. The healers arent doing their job or the mob is owning you for other reasons.<BR><BR>Just my opinion, but altruism, as gaige said, is a waste of 8 points.<BR><BR>str 4,4,8 (until you get 60+ dmg rating weaps for both slots then go wis)<BR>int 4,4,8<BR>sta 4,4,8<BR><BR>That is the best setup, that I have found via parsing, for a dps monk.  If you want to be a tanker, check out gaiges eq2players pro.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That DPS set up is also the most versatile. 1k+ range DPSs ftw.

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> Its not worth 8pts imho, especially if you're going defensive.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I did go defensive and I couldn't be happier to have this skill. As I already mentioned, it has saved my raids and XP groups many times. I admit, I wish I could put in an extra 3 points into Agility, but I'd have to take out 3 points from Defense to do that.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR>One of the other monks in my guild has altruism, and to be honest I have yet to see it be effective.  Not only do I out dps him by 200-300 because of his wasted points, but also even with two nicely equipped guardians, if your mt dies, your off tank will more than likely die also. The healers arent doing their job or the mob is owning you for other reasons.<BR><BR>Just my opinion, but altruism, as gaige said, is a waste of 8 points.<BR><BR>str 4,4,8 (until you get 60+ dmg rating weaps for both slots then go wis)<BR>int 4,4,8<BR>sta 4,4,8<BR><BR>That is the best setup, that I have found via parsing, for a dps monk.  If you want to be a tanker, check out gaiges eq2players pro.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Offense isn't everything. Just because you out DPS the other monk doesn't necissarily mean that the other monk *WANTS* to compete with you in that area.</P> <P> </P> <P>When I go completely defensive, by equiping every last piece of armor I have that gives to +defense, +deflection, or +parry, including a Marrowgore Chakram and Bonecleave Chakram, my DPS doesn't reach the top 12 in raids.</P> <P> </P> <P>Do I care? No.</P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <P>I did go defensive and I couldn't be happier to have this skill.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You didn't go defensive at all imho.</P> <P>You chose defense which adds the least avoidance when compared to parry and deflection, which you took none of.</P> <P>You also didn't take the final in INT which is by far the most defensive AA brawlers get imho.</P> <P>Looking at the agility line, the entire thing seems like a waste of points tbh.<BR></P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <P>I did go defensive and I couldn't be happier to have this skill.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You didn't go defensive at all imho.</P> <P>You chose defense which adds the least avoidance when compared to parry and deflection, which you took none of.</P> <P>You also didn't take the final in INT which is by far the most defensive AA brawlers get imho.</P> <P>Looking at the agility line, the entire thing seems like a waste of points tbh.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Have you actually tested out each and every last branch? Can you honestly say that you have spent at least 2 months with the agility line, for the exact purpose of seeing just how good it is?<BR></P> <P> </P> <P>If going with the Intellegence line just for Parry is indeed better, then maybe I'll consider respecing and going 5-4-4-8-8 in Agility and 4-4-4-8 in Intellegence. Not sure how much stamina/HP i'd lose from it but it probably isn't much.</P> <P> </P> <P>Either way, don't say it's not worth it unless you've already dedicated yourself to extensively finding out. I have dedicated myself to finding out, and the agility line is well worth it.</P>

[MadBarman]

I think the point Gaige is making with regards to agility line being not very good for defense is that agility itself does very little. Added to that the next 2 skills in the line offer nothing for defense. Then the defense skill bonus does not boost your avoidance as mush as increasing your deflection or parry would. The altruism skill is useful, but not superb and offers nothing for your own defense. The int line final ability adds 1400 mitigation when you are under 30% health while giving you 75% extra critical hit chance. That is very nice, especially in a group if you have a healer who can keep you alive and at 30% health or lower. The increase in parry from the intelligence line is useful as there are very few monk usable tems with a parry bonus and only the dirge buff to parry. I could be wrong with the buffs but I can't think of any others right now. Personally I went for a mix of increasing damage while getting some more health to help survive AE's and pulls on a raid. 4 points in stamina 4/4/5/8/1 in wisdom 4/4/8 in intelligence <div></div>

[Gaige]

<P>I'm sure you are reasonable and intelligent enough to see this, but fine:</P> <P>Agility line:</P> <P>Monkey agility = worthless.  Agility is the *least* useful of any stat.  I'd rather have int than agility 9x out of 10.  It takes 30 agility to give 1% avoidance, and even then its only base avoidance.</P> <P>Baton Flurry = dw baton needed and its a small proc.  Not very defensive.</P> <P>Ambidexterity = Shortens reuse timers by a whopping 1%.  Not very defensive and it sucks compared to other lines offensive skills.</P> <P>Monkey Dodge = 1.7 defense per rank.  Defense is the worst way to raise avoidance other than agility, and again its only base avoidance.</P> <P>You already know my thoughts on altruism.  Most good raid guilds have an offtank ready incase the MT dies.  I can't see that skill being worth 8pts <EM>ever.</EM></P> <P>Oh and yes I tested out all the various AA lines in beta /shrug.</P> <P>Looking at the int/sta lines both are better for a defensive build.  Yours is barely defensive at all, I'm surprised you call it that.  Other than the defense/agility (which is a horrible way to raise avoidance) you have two skills that mess with resuse timers and add a small proc and then the worthless altruism.</P> <P>I'm glad you're happy with it but recommending it to any brawler player when much better dps and defensive paths are available is a bit much.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <P>Most good raid guilds have an offtank ready incase the MT dies.  I can't see that skill being worth 8pts <EM>ever.</EM><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>And when the Offtank dies before he can take control of the raid?</P> <P> </P> <P>At least with agility, you can raise your base defense. I think it was you who told me yourself that defense, deflection, and parry can all reach a maximum cap, which means after you hit that point, you've got nothing but agility to fall back on, doesn't it?</P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>At least with agility, you can raise your base defense. I think it was you who told me yourself that defense, deflection, and parry can all reach a maximum cap, which means after you hit that point, you've got nothing but agility to fall back on, doesn't it?</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No.  Not at all.</P> <P>Deflection raises deflection %, parry raises parry % and defense/agility raise base avoidance %.</P> <P>Deflection you get from gear, AAs and in a monk's case, TV.  Parry you get from gear, AAs and dirge buffs.  Agility you can get from all over, and hitting the 510 agility cap isn't hard.  Defense is pretty easy to raise also.</P> <P>Like I said, agility offers the <EM>least</EM> defensive capabilities of all the AA lines.</P>

[Miroh]

 <b><i><font color="#ff0000">Bruiser=Bruiser Forums...</font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000"> Yes, I use anti death, comes in handy alot actually.  Saved a few wipes with it, main reason I went that line, second reason was I solo and farm alot, AA's depend solely on what you want to do.....not what others think.  If you want dps, you go one line, if you want defense you go another line....All depends on what you really think is best for what you want to do in the game as a brawler.</font></i></b><div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Miroh69 wrote:<BR> <B><I><FONT color=#ffff00>Bruiser=Bruiser Forums...<BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ff0000> Yes, I use anti death, comes in handy alot actually.  Saved a few wipes with it, main reason I went that line, second reason was I solo and farm alot, AA's depend solely on what you want to do.....not what others think.  If you want dps, you go one line, if you want defense you go another line....All depends on what you really think is best for what you </FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>want to do in the game as a brawler.</FONT></I></B><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Granted I'll post where I want and could care less what you think - the altruism skill and all achievements are BRAWLER.  Meaning both monk and bruiser.</P> <P>You even had a spark of intelligent thought and said that at the end of your amazing and insightful post, and I highlighted it for you.</P>

[Miroh]

<b><i><font color="#ff0000">Yes we all know you will post where you want to, you've shown that on everything thus far even if you have no clue how to play the class you are commenting on.P.S. And yes I know it's a brawler aa, but on the monk forums, which you thankfully....aren't anymore</font></i></b><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Wait, there's even an agility cap? (which btw I'm nowhere near yet still have a high avoidance)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously, why do they put caps on that but not any of the other stats in the same regard?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, I'm with the above poster. I play the way I want to, because I want to have fun. Trying to always follow all this imperically deduced logic and data that you have just takes out the fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Either way, I'm sticking with Altruism. My guild thanks me for having it, and a bit of respect from them is good enough for me.</DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Wait, there's even an agility cap? (which btw I'm nowhere near yet still have a high avoidance)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously, why do they put caps on that but not any of the other stats in the same regard?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, I'm with the above poster. I play the way I want to, because I want to have fun. Trying to always follow all this imperically deduced logic and data that you have just takes out the fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Either way, I'm sticking with Altruism. My guild thanks me for having it, and a bit of respect from them is good enough for me. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>All stats are capped at 7 x your level + 20.  Not just agility.<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Miroh69 wrote:<BR><B><I><FONT color=#ff0000><BR>P.S. And yes I know it's a brawler aa, but on the monk forums, which you thankfully....aren't anymore</FONT></I></B><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yup, and now they have you and your pearls of wisdom to lead them eh.  </P> <P>"Like omg I want to be dps like in EQ1, bruisers are useless in raids, I got into Shadowed Strife because my girlfriend played a fury and they needed one!"</P> <P>Get over yourself.  If I don't know how to play the monk class, didn't add anything to the class when I was part of it and was as useless as you say, I only have one thing to say:</P> <P>Just think where you rate <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P><p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class=date_text>06-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:48 PM</span>

[Miroh]

<b><i><font color="#ff0000">  What I said before was you automatically thought monks being part of a tank class shouldn't do as much dps as they once did so you cried and cried about it.  I got use to the change and delt with it, as I get use to every change made to classes.  I don't comment on classes I don't play even though I play a Conjuror and Inq but don't comment.  As far as the others....I don't, why? Because I don't play them, I don't know how, so anything I complain about would be stupid and ignorant....remind you of someone? </font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000">  As far as me having a GF that was a fury and got me into Shadowed Strife...lol.  I'll let Delvo tell you of his tell to me that night in Splitpaw while I was a member of Defiant and the fury....was yet to be known...plus, she didn't get in until like 2 months after me...so OMG like get your info right lol loser.  Anyways, back to the topic, keep the anti-death, it comes in handy for those mobs that debuff your tank and smack them for 23k, just make sure they know how to get up from it.</font></i></b><div></div>

[Miroh]

 <b><i><font color="#ff0000">And if you're looking for defense agi line and stam together are rather nice.  If you still want anti death just let that be the only one you use the 8 points on and cap out the defense ones.</font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000"> Just food for thought</font></i></b><div></div>

[scalzo]

AA's are always on the individual and what style you like that play at :smileywink: I went defensive myself going 4-4-4-8 sta and 4-4-5-8-8 Int. There is no wrong right way. Go with the way you wanna play and have fun with it :smileyvery-happy:

[Miroh]

<b><i><font color="#ff0000">What he said</font></i></b><div></div>

[LorandakV]

<DIV>I use Altruism a little differently, putting it on the MT-group shaman.  It is extremely useful when taunts get resisted.  What would otherwise have ended up a one-shotted shaman and loss of buffs/wards instead ends up just a second or two of no heals from the fd'd healer. </DIV>

[KazzySoJaz]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Duggie wrote:AA's are always on the individual and what style you like that play at <img src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16"> I went defensive myself going 4-4-4-8 sta and 4-4-5-8-8 Int. There is no wrong right way. Go with the way you wanna play and have fun with it <img src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16"><div></div><hr></blockquote>I agree completely, but someone asked for peoples opinions on the subject matter <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, so we all put our two cents in.<blockquote><hr>Miroh69 wrote:<b><i><font color="#ff0000">What he said</font></i></b><div></div><hr></blockquote>Loser...</div><p>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <span class=date_text>06-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:15 PM</span>

[Miroh]

<b><i><font color="#ff0000">What the hell lol</font></i></b><div></div>

[Deathspell]

With saving raids/groups and saving the tank's armor I thought i'd go for altruism. But, in my opinion altruism on the tank is simply ineffective.Many times the tank died anyway, (despite the 100% fd), altruism was lost, group wiped and armor damaged.(The 100% fd is not effective against dots either I think)So, I started casting it on a healer, which seemed more helpful coz he could revive the group.On the other hand, you can feign death to save your group.If you do it the moment the MT dies, then you can save the group and rez your healer.So, since we have feign death, I must say that altruism is not worth and the 24 points are just wasted.I will respec tonight.<div></div>

[psubull]

you don't always HAVE to put it on the tank.  I usually put it on somebody that isn't the tank, but essential to the raid, so that when they die their buffs/debuffs don't get drained from the tank/mob.I also mentor my RL brothers and friends all the time when I'm not raiding, and altruism helps them out in those situations where fall of the phoenix doesnt work for them.<div></div>

[Deathspell]

I know, but you with your feign death can do the same thing. Why should you waste 24 AA points to let someone do something that you can do just as well?What's the difference if you save a healer with altruism or you feign death and rez the healer?Your feign death may not be 100% succesful, but 95% is bloody close.Don't go blind on the 100% feign death of altruism, I can assure you that it has "failed" more often then my feign death would.<div></div>

[psubull]

<blockquote><hr>Deathspell wrote:I know, but you with your feign death can do the same thing. Why should you waste 24 AA points to let someone do something that you can do just as well?What's the difference if you save a healer with altruism or you feign death and rez the healer?Your feign death may not be 100% succesful, but 95% is bloody close.Don't go blind on the 100% feign death of altruism, I can assure you that it has "failed" more often then my feign death would.<div></div><hr></blockquote>The difference is that the healer doesn't need to recast buffs (or in mentoring situations, having debt).  It gives an alternate to wiping in all situations, and you can STILL FD alongside altruism.  It has its use.<div></div>

[Drussna]

I agree with everything Ouka has said and I find it very useful. Though I dont really consider myself to be a major dps machine or a phenomenal tank, perhaps if this is why you've chosen a monk you shouldnt go with altruism. I enjoy playing as a Monk because of their utility value. The various uses for altruism have been mentioned here already. Like Ouka said before, this skill is valued by raiding guilds for its obvious use - I use it all the time and I'm glad I have it. Would you give up group fd for higher dps or defence? Maybe you'd be better off as a wizard or guardian.<div></div>

[Deathspell]

Well, most of the times, when it goes bad on a raid, it goes ugly and I don't see what good the healer's buffs are when the group wipes anyway.I'm just not convinced if those "chances of happening" are worth half my AA points.<div></div>I never see monks cast altruism out of themselves either (although they have it), I never see raids (public or guild) ask if there's monks with altruism,...It sure sounds very cool on paper and it may very well be an interesting feature, but from my experience it isn't worth it, sorry.

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Miroh69 wrote:<BR><B><I><FONT color=#ff0000>What the hell lol</FONT></I></B><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>you are reallly loved huh ? oO