Mitigation strikes again

[FelixDomesticus]

<b><font color="#ffff00"><font color="#ffffff">New dev plan to "fix" interception spells for fighters:</font>Damage Interception</font></b>Fighters have a line of combat arts dedicated to intercepting damage, mostly for use in situations where the Fighter is not the main tank of the group or raid. Currently, it is rarely used because it puts the Fighter that uses it in great danger becaues intercepted damage does not consider any mitigation.The next test update changes damage interception so the <u><b>caster's mitigation</b></u> is considered. This will help make off-tanking tactics more viable, especially for fighters that have ways to recover their own health.<font color="#ccff00">Great plan. It will still be pretty useless for brawlers who get very low mitigation.</font><div></div>

[Idoru]

It doesn't however mention about removing using the casters avoidance as part of the equation though. I used that skill all the time because it made monks more useful to the group and specifically to my healer or the most likely to draw agro by DPS. If they do remove avoidance from it, I'd call it a nice solid nerf of brawlers.<div></div>

[selch]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Idoru wrote:<BR>It doesn't however mention about removing using the casters avoidance as part of the equation though. I used that skill all the time because it made monks more useful to the group and specifically to my healer or the most likely to draw agro by DPS. If they do remove avoidance from it, I'd call it a nice solid nerf of brawlers.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, IF target does use your avoidance via TV, he/she won't get hit, so will not waste usage of Intercept.  But this is only for the case intercept & TV target is same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Zodi]

<P>One man is another man's treasure.</P> <P>We guardians are looking this one very closely. I hope it helps everyone but to be honest I think it will plate tanks the most.</P> <P> </P>

[BrainMu]

We get 3 different versions of intercept, all master I are Interveve 50/50, Intercept 75/25, and Intercede100/0 ... if we can't take the hit from the 100/0, we can always use an older version of the skill, reducing a hit by 50%, or 75% is still better than nothing.  Its on a 30s timer so there will be times when plate tanks in the raid won't have theirs up.

[eland]

<DIV>I'm not a brawler so I don't know all the specifics, but don't you get a skill that stuns you and gives a substancial mitigation boost for a short duration?  What can a monk get his mitigation up to with that?  It seems like it could be a potential use for that skill in a non MT role if the boost is substancial enough.</DIV>

[FelixDomesticus]

<div><blockquote><hr>elandur wrote:<div>I'm not a brawler so I don't know all the specifics, but don't you get a skill that stuns you and gives a substancial mitigation boost for a short duration?  What can a monk get his mitigation up to with that?  It seems like it could be a potential use for that skill in a non MT role if the boost is substancial enough.</div><hr></blockquote>It has a small problem: it is too slow to cast and lasts 30 secs only.</div>

[Pins]

<DIV>Well, you guys offer a better avoidance buff to other tanks, while other tanks offer a "better" intercede.  Balance.</DIV>

[BrainMu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> elandur wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm not a brawler so I don't know all the specifics, but don't you get a skill that stuns you and gives a substancial mitigation boost for a short duration?  What can a monk get his mitigation up to with that?  It seems like it could be a potential use for that skill in a non MT role if the boost is substancial enough.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It might be useful taking the first hit on a pull.   Once your stunned you can't cast intercept so you would have to be lucky and get them both off before the next attack lands if you used it during combat, and then it will be 3 min before you can use it again

[eland]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FelixDomesticus wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> elandur wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm not a brawler so I don't know all the specifics, but don't you get a skill that stuns you and gives a substancial mitigation boost for a short duration?  What can a monk get his mitigation up to with that?  It seems like it could be a potential use for that skill in a non MT role if the boost is substancial enough.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>It has a small problem: it is too slow to cast and lasts 30 secs only.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Even if the casting time's about 3 seconds, I still don't see why it couldn't be used situatiionally as long as the mitigation boost is enough to make a difference.  It just means that it would require excellent coordination with a stunner to make sure you time the casting within the small window provided by the stun so you don't get hit before the cast.<BR></DIV>

[RyanTSi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> elandur wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FelixDomesticus wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> elandur wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm not a brawler so I don't know all the specifics, but don't you get a skill that stuns you and gives a substancial mitigation boost for a short duration?  What can a monk get his mitigation up to with that?  It seems like it could be a potential use for that skill in a non MT role if the boost is substancial enough.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>It has a small problem: it is too slow to cast and lasts 30 secs only.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Even if the casting time's about 3 seconds, I still don't see why it couldn't be used situatiionally as long as the mitigation boost is enough to make a difference.  It just means that it would require excellent coordination with a stunner to make sure you time the casting within the small window provided by the stun so you don't get hit before the cast.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>when enchanters can stun raid mobs this might be usefull but even in that situation if the mob is stunned it might not be neccisary to intercept....ive noticed that 95% of the times that ive used intercept in the past i pretty much instantly take the damage as soon as i cast it....it is random though but most of the time there isnt a long enough window to get our stun buff off. i think that it still be useful for brawlers though, we can always put up our root mit buff ahead of time that gives an extra 500 or so mit and switch to defensive stance real fast before cast, which will put us up to around 3600(estimate) mit...in most situations 1 hit like that wont kill us and we can recover pretty fast with group heals.....bruisers will have it better for intercepting though with there 3 minute 1300 mitigation buff.

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FelixDomesticus wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> elandur wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm not a brawler so I don't know all the specifics, but don't you get a skill that stuns you and gives a substancial mitigation boost for a short duration?  What can a monk get his mitigation up to with that?  It seems like it could be a potential use for that skill in a non MT role if the boost is substancial enough.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>It has a small problem: it is too slow to cast and lasts 30 secs only.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>actually he is talking about the stun mitigation buff not the one that roots (slower cast time) you. Both brawlers have this ability and it has a 1 sec cast time. He is absolutly correct that making a macro of /use abilty intercede, use ability mitigation buff would work wonderfully. <P>its also valid and fair to say our avodiance buff is better thus thier intercede mitigation buff should be better as well. warriors (not counting zerker regen) do not have any self heal/ward abilities so they are at a disadvantage wgen they need to heal themselves.</P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>05-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:28 PM</span>

[Se]

<DIV>Talk about perfect timing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would be willing ot bet that 99 times out of 100 the intercept target will have already been hit by the time Mountian Stance got done casting. IT casts very slow. It casts so slow in fact that even the most slow hitting epic mob would have already hit you probably twice and interupted you by the time it goes off. SO wow we get a 2k mit boost(at master level) for 30 secs that stuns us in place, only downside is the slow cast, but even if you did manage to get it off the mob will switch targets 5seconds later cause you are no longer procing taunt or doing any sort of dps. so 30 secs buff thats gonna work for bout 5 secs total then has to be clicked off and cant recast it right away. its a pointless skill, with very very limited uses.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh and to the poster above me. Your stun mit buff might have a 1 sec casting time, Monk has a 3 sec casting time</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also Im not too sure about you guys, But I very very rarely will use Heal on myself. I save it in the case that helaers go oop during the fight and mob hp is low and MT takes a hard shot. 3 monks healing 30+% when mt is at 10 can save the raid easily. My guild monks have done it so many times its not even funny. </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Seyn on <SPAN class=date_text>05-10-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:28 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Seyn on <span class=date_text>05-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:33 PM</span>

[Gaige]

<P>I don't see how it hurts us at all. </P> <P>It helps us in two ways:</P> <P>1) We can use intercept without dying now, as I normally have around 4100~ mit raid buffed (if not more).</P> <P>2) Plate tanks can intercept for us if we're tanking and combined with our avoidance it will REALLY cut down on spike damage.</P> <P>/shrug</P> <P>This would be like if plate tanks whined about block buffs since omg we have more avoidance than they do.</P>

[RyanTSi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <P>I don't see how it hurts us at all. </P> <P>It helps us in two ways:</P> <P>1) We can use intercept without dying now, as I normally have around 4100~ mit raid buffed (if not more).</P> <P>2) Plate tanks can intercept for us if we're tanking and combined with our avoidance it will REALLY cut down on spike damage.</P> <P>/shrug</P> <P>This would be like if plate tanks whined about block buffs since omg we have more avoidance than they do.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>If im in the MT group fully buffed i can pull 4100+ mit but in most cases when im not in MT group and on dps/offtanking mit is way lower....i doubt that most monks would be intercepting on raids with that kinda mit......but even then  i agree the intercept changes is only going to help us and will still be very usefull.<BR>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Seyn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Talk about perfect timing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would be willing ot bet that 99 times out of 100 the intercept target will have already been hit by the time Mountian Stance got done casting. IT casts very slow. It casts so slow in fact that even the most slow hitting epic mob would have already hit you probably twice and interupted you by the time it goes off. SO wow we get a 2k mit boost(at master level) for 30 secs that stuns us in place, only downside is the slow cast, but even if you did manage to get it off the mob will switch targets 5seconds later cause you are no longer procing taunt or doing any sort of dps. so 30 secs buff thats gonna work for bout 5 secs total then has to be clicked off and cant recast it right away. its a pointless skill, with very very limited uses. <FONT color=#ffff33>ok one if you are intercepting damage you are not trying to tuant unless you are grouping in which case you would not need the stun mitgation buff. Secodly you still have a taunt that works while stunned finally who cares if you click it off 5 secs alter intercept has a 90 sec recast anyway. I do agree though that if a monks emegency mitigation buff has a 3 sec cast it needs to be lower to 1 sec at most. I do not know at the moment because i am at work.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh and to the poster above me. Your stun mit buff might have a 1 sec casting time, Monk has a 3 sec casting time</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also Im not too sure about you guys, But I very very rarely will use Heal on myself. I save it in the case that helaers go oop during the fight and mob hp is low and MT takes a hard shot. 3 monks healing 30+% when mt is at 10 can save the raid easily. My guild monks have done it so many times its not even funny. <FONT color=#ffff33>bruisers can only self heal but our recast is faster. We are selfish like that. So heal the MT then don't use intercede. Its not suppsoe to be OUR speciality skill. protection is the gaurdians speciality skill. We do better DPS. Stop whining about warriros having better protection. Its thier developer proclaimed speciality.</FONT></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Seyn on <SPAN class=date_text>05-10-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:28 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Seyn on <SPAN class=date_text>05-10-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:33 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Se]

<P>Ok not sure where exactly you get whining about it out of that. I could care less about intercept personally I use it on healers and mages only if ever. </P> <P>What I was pointing out is the fact that useing Mountian stance in conjunction with Intercept on the MT is an unfeasable suggesstion. The long cast time on Mountain makes it so. And in second was pointing out its almost complete uselessness in anything but a single group situation. Cant use it to pick up tank duties during raid, all it could do if it ever got all the way through casting was give 5 secs for a plate tank to get agro. Thats good I guess for some but more then likely i'ld die in the process of doing it anyway or be really close to dieing. and then raid either loses my 1k dps or next ae I die. Thats all, didnt have some underlying mit tank wants. And as to Gaiges post, your right with spirit up this would be more feasable but I'm still gonna be reluctant to try it. even over 4K mit still gonna be a heck of a shot. We'll see though, it mgiht work better than we think.</P> <P>AS far as Bruiser heal I know its self only, this is the monk forum am I right? Im pointing out how I use my Heal to keep the MT up when its needed. Thats a Monk thing. I do it now and I'll always do it. If the rest of hte monks here do it different thats fine everyone plays how they play, but dont come to our forum and try to slam me about displaying how I use my skills. I could care less if the guard gets a better intervene, your right in saying they should and I agree with ya. But on the same token I dont wanna die by trying to help them out by using mine.</P>

[Gungo]

Fair enough. Sorry if it seemed like i was being agressive toward you. I have seen several brawlers complaining that intercede should take avodiance into consideration becuase it benefits plate tanks more. As it should. Btw I am fairly certain the bruiser 30 sec stun miti buff is 1 sec cast. Odd why the 2 are different. As its suppsoe to be an emergency buff. Also of note Monks will be getting the fear bruisers get not the mezz w the the current combat changes hittign test tonight. And they are nerfing the bruiser fear and mezz by placing them on the same timer:smileymad:<p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>05-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:14 PM</span>

[selch]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> Fair enough. Sorry if it seemed like i was being agressive toward you. I have seen several brawlers complaining that intercede should take avodiance into consideration becuase it benefits plate tanks more. As it should. Btw I am fairly certain the bruiser 30 sec stun miti buff is 1 sec cast. Odd why the 2 are different. As its suppsoe to be an emergency buff. Also of note Monks will be getting the fear bruisers get not the mezz w the the current combat changes hittign test tonight. And they are nerfing the bruiser fear and mezz by placing them on the same timer:smileymad: <P>Message Edited by Gungo on <SPAN class=date_text>05-10-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:14 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yeah, that's bad for bruisers indeed, have to change tactics a lot for them <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still we are both on same boat for stun timers which I worry about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Reposa]

    For a time in T6 intercepts actually did work.  They worked for a while actually and I used them all of the time, rarely would I take some massive hit that would put me on the brink of death.  Then all of a sudden, one day in PPR, I used an intercept and took 12k damage.  Ever since then it has always meant death or close to it upon intercepting.  I think this change owns, and it's about time they fixed intercepts.  Immediatly, what came to my mind was the fact that plate tanks can intercept for real tanks (us), and not die.<div></div>

[Timaarit]

<blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:<div>Well, you guys offer a better avoidance buff to other tanks, while other tanks offer a "better" intercede.  Balance.</div><hr></blockquote>Avoidance is broken by game mechanics. So no, no balance here.<div></div>

[FelixDomesticus]

<div><blockquote><hr>Gungo wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div>warriors (not counting zerker regen) do not have any self heal/ward abilities so they are at a disadvantage wgen they need to heal themselves.<hr></blockquote>I do not know how heal is for bruisers, but for monks it is in 3 MIN timer. Because of long timer it is more like panic heal than meant for normal healing.</div>