Is the overall dmg the same for a 2hb with a 100dr and 2 dw weps with a 50dr each?

[JackalOpe]

<DIV>Assuming all other things are equal like stats and procs....  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or is the formula a little different and it doesn't work quite this way?</DIV>

[selch]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JackalOpe wrote:<BR> <DIV>Assuming all other things are equal like stats and procs....  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or is the formula a little different and it doesn't work quite this way?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If that's the case (considering all stats are x2 of DW), 2H would be better because in DW, both hands has chance to miss.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[zabor]

... which wouldnt make any difference if you knew a bit about maths.back to topic:With dw's and 2handers of equal quality, the combined dr of dual wields usually is a bit higher than the dr of twohanders. Easy to see with crafted weapons.

[Dfoley3]

A while back DW were upgraded because it was noticed (through internal parsing) that it took a HIGHER combined ratio of dual weild to equal the same dps as a 2 hander...So in the past "no" they werent the same. Presently, is closer, but 99% of the time dual weilders need to have a HIGHER combined ratio to do the same dps.Staff of flapping wing - 108 dr 2hander, i can parse up to 1200 in an exp/raid group on 45s to 2 min fightsto get the same result with dw i use - twin calamities (63dr one) and a 57 dr weapon,

[MysticTrunks01]

Of course another bonus over 2h is that with DW you get two items that when stacked have more stats than any single 2h weapon of the same level.  So far as i've seen in 59 levels, nothing stat wise has come up that beats DW<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>I've been wondering about this myself recently. Currently I can't decide if it would be better, damage-wise, to stick to a Grizzlefazzle at 91 DR, or use my Soulspur and another weapon that are at 53 and 52 DR, respectively.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As you can count, 53/52 = 105, which is greater than 91, but I just want to make sure if that means it's more powerful or not.</DIV>

[Rrawl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>I've been wondering about this myself recently. Currently I can't decide if it would be better, damage-wise, to stick to a Grizzlefazzle at 91 DR, or use my Soulspur and another weapon that are at 53 and 52 DR, respectively.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As you can count, 53/52 = 105, which is greater than 91, but I just want to make sure if that means it's more powerful or not.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Just remember that grizzle's has a damage proc that's not reflected in the damage rating too...  I'll have my soulspur soon and will be doing some parsing to compare... but I'm usually tanking and I'm really interested in the power regen capabilities of the soulspur.<BR>

[JudyJudy]

<P><EM>I wield Soulspur atm, for both tanking and when in DPS mode, and I have to say - I've been nothing but pleased with it.</EM></P> <P><EM>I don't have any technical parsed information, and look forward to what you may come up with Rrawl.</EM></P> <P><EM>On raids, I still parse AT LEAST within the top three - unless I have to go afk real fast to catch my daughter from climbing over the couch. :smileytongue:</EM></P> <P><EM>To me it seems the proc works good - even if it is only 3%.  The +200 power is noticable.</EM></P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rrawl wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>I've been wondering about this myself recently. Currently I can't decide if it would be better, damage-wise, to stick to a Grizzlefazzle at 91 DR, or use my Soulspur and another weapon that are at 53 and 52 DR, respectively.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As you can count, 53/52 = 105, which is greater than 91, but I just want to make sure if that means it's more powerful or not.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Just remember that grizzle's has a damage proc that's not reflected in the damage rating too...  I'll have my soulspur soon and will be doing some parsing to compare... but I'm usually tanking and I'm really interested in the power regen capabilities of the soulspur.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The Soulspur has a 3% chance to proc Soul Rend, which recovers 200 power. If you constantly use your combat arts during a fight, that's not high enough to adequately keep you self powered. 200 power.. thats a Frozen Palm and a Punishing Cobra.</P> <P>The weapon is nice, but it'd be more usefull if it was 5% or higher. Or if it had stats like the Katana version that warriors and crusaders can use.</P>

[Rrawl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>The Soulspur has a 3% chance to proc Soul Rend, which recovers 200 power. If you constantly use your combat arts during a fight, that's not high enough to adequately keep you self powered. 200 power.. thats a Frozen Palm and a Punishing Cobra.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The weapon is nice, but it'd be more usefull if it was 5% or higher. Or if it had stats like the Katana version that warriors and crusaders can use.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>So noted, you'll also note that I said I'm usually tanking, and not necessarily looking to use the power for more dps, but rather to keep aggro. (=<BR>

[Anjin]

<P>I would love to see a monk parse 1200 dps in an exp (single) group.  Please can you give me the group makeup please.</P> <P>Anjin</P>

[Tauch]

<blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote: <div>The Soulspur has a 3% chance to proc Soul Rend, which recovers 200 power. If you constantly use your combat arts during a fight, that's not high enough to adequately keep you self powered. 200 power.. thats a Frozen Palm and a Punishing Cobra.</div> <p>The weapon is nice, but it'd be more usefull if it was 5% or higher. Or if it had stats like the Katana version that warriors and crusaders can use.</p><hr></blockquote> Frozen Palm would be in there, but only because it takes health, and not power. <span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div>

[Bewts]

<P>Inquisitor, Bruiser, Coercer, Monk, Mystic and Assassin.</P> <P>Monk is level 70 with 50 AA into 5/8/8 STR 4/4/8/4/8 INT tanking in offensive, informs no one to use Stuns.  Pull with ranged on a lvl 70 ^^^ heroic in PoA.  Pop tsunami, fire off a taunt, dragonbreath and every non stun CA available.  Tsunami fades, fire off all stuns in succession w/out waiting on durations.  Mob dies and I have 1497 DPS.  The Assassin logged and refused to talk to me for a day.</P>

[Zooce]

omg revelation - stoopid monk (me), of course use non stun CAs when Tsunami on, god I need to think more! Thanks!

[Anjin]

<P>Fair enough, but it's the most contrived situational parse you can get.  It's boasting like yours which produce stupid posts because certain guardians read your boasts.</P> <P>I hope you got your intended hardon posting the details.</P> <P>Anjin </P>

[Tamo]

Does anyone else hear EasternKing????

[Dfoley3]

My typical group isCoercer - inq - [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]- conj - me (monk) - bruiserME and the bruiser will parse 1100-1200 constantly, occasionaly we get those 1400 dps parses but with that setup [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] dies so fast its hard, since monk dps goes up over time,  with just auto attack i parse 1k in 45s fights (on single mobs)  you actualy cant use all your combat arts to cap dps, you need to just use the big hits.  <div></div>

[Sslarrga]

<DIV>I don't notice the discrepency someone mentioned above.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Staff of the Flapping wings 108 DR does less damage than Twin Calamities (57 DR) + Soulspur (53? DR) and much less if I use Katar of the 4 winds (52? DR) to take advantage of the piercing debuff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the past DW was bumped up in DR because.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  Normalized procs meant that 2-handers had a MUCH greater change to proc on CAs.  Especially on multi-hit CA's.  This has since been changed in a previous LU so that CA's proc based on their cast times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.  2-handers have an inherent advantage when fighting against any mob that ripostes, has reactive procs, or damage shields.  IE - Generally advisable to tank hard stull with a 2-hander vs DW.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Those are the main reasons DW was made to do more DPS than a 2-hander.  Case number 1 is no longer valid, however case number 2 is still extremely valid.  Especially if you want to melee something with a large damage shield like the corsolander.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you don't take procs into the equation just add up the DR of DW weapons to compare to a 2-hander.  From everything I've ever seen, 100 DR from 2 DWs will parse the exact same as 100 DR from 2-handers.  I'll test again later when I get bored, but pretty sure it's still the same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards,</DIV> <DIV>Croaker</DIV>

[Cyngii]

<DIV>I'm a follower of what Ryza stated, and ran some calcs that seem to kinda hold.  The first thing to remember is that the DR is really nothing more than a baseline number to compare against.  It doesn't take into account any buffs, procs, etc... It's really just the equivilent of comparing damage/delay ratios for those that aren't good with math.  So with that said, awhile back they upped the damage of dual wielders to be on par with 2h weapon damage.  Using T6 rare crafted weaps as an example since have never had T7 crafted weapons, the 2h weaps had a DR of 62.2 i believe while the dual wielders were 37 each for a combined 74.  Now with the assumption that the DPS from rare crafted 2h and DW should be on par you can make the assumption that the combined DR of dual wielders needs to be 74 / 62.2 = 1.19 or 19% higher than a comparable 2h.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The way I look at it is.  With all weapon skills being equal you have a set chance of "X" as a hit % for hitting a MOB with a 2H, but since with dual wielders each weapon has that same chance of "X" of hitting the mob your effective hit percentage of hitting the mob with both weapons drops to "X^2".  So as an example, when you're not tanking (not dealing with parries/deflection/etc) in offensive stance, we don't miss a whole lot.  So say with a 2h you hit 80% of the time with autoattack.  Well, statistically you'll only hit the MOB with both weapons 64% with the dual wielders since each weapon has 80% chance to hit (or more importantly each weapon has a 20% chance to miss).  Somewhere SOE came to the conclusion that the 19% boost on DW DR ratings deals with this issue.  Does this mean that DW with a combined DR of 120 will do the same damage as a 2h with DR of 100?  Of course not since you have to factor all the other components mentioned above.  However if you're looking at weapons with the same DR (say a 2h with 100 DR and DW with combined 100 DR), I would venture a guess that the 2h would own the DW no matter what procs they had.  Keep in mind too that Fabled weaps have a atk rating bonus associated with them (not quite sure what that buys you however).</DIV>

[Sslarrga]

<DIV>Ah, the math there is a bit wrong Cyngii.  In EQ1 where the secondary weapon in DW only had a chance to hit IF the first weapon hit, then your statement is correct.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, in EQ2 each weapon has an independant chance to hit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if you have a 2handed weapon with 3.0 delay or 2 DW weapons with 1.4 delay, or a 1 hander with 2.0 delay, they will all hit or miss the same percentage of the time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IE...with 80% chance to hit let's say.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1000 swings with 2hander = 800 hits.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>500 swings with 1st DW = 400 hits</DIV> <DIV>500 swings with 2nd DW = 400 hits.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1000 swings with DW = 800 hits.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just add the DR of each DW you are using and compare it directly to a 2hander.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards,</DIV> <DIV>Croaker</DIV><p>Message Edited by Sslarrga on <span class=date_text>05-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:09 PM</span>

[Cyngii]

<DIV>You basically repeated what i just said <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I'm making the assumption of using DW with the same delay for simplicity btw.  WIth dual wields each is treated separately and as per the above examples each of the dual wields has an 80% chance to hit.  Here is the big but... you only have a 64% chance that they will both hit each attack round.  If you compare this with a single 2h weapon which has the straight 80% chance to hit, it makes sense why they upped the damage on the DW to be comparable.  The Grizzlefazzle will outdamage 2 dual wield with combined DR of 100 any day of the week.  My current weap does similar damage to the dual Twin Calamities setup which has DR of 120.</DIV>

[Cyngii]

And as a followup an even better example than the T6 rare crafted weaps... my buddy has the Wurmslayer which can be switched between DW and 2H modes.  One would assume that the weapons should be comparable in either mode.  The DR in 2H mode is 104... the DR of the DW is 63.  So using the Wurmslayer as a model, it would take DW weaps with a combined DR of 126 to be equivilent to the 2h with a DR of 104.  This ratio is almost the same as the T6 rare crafted example.  I think as a generalization you should be looking for combined DW DR of 20% higher than 2h to be equal.

[Dahlrek]

<div></div>Dude, seriously, you don't get it.  Don't feel bad though, Moorgard always gets it wrong too.Yes, congrats, you realize that there's only a 64% chance to hit with both.  On the other hand, in your haste to overcomplicate things, you forgot that you also only have a 4% chance to miss with both, and a 32% chance to hit with one or the other.  64% of the time you get full DW damage, 32% of the time you get half damage, and 4% of the time you get 0 damage.  Net result?  64% + 32%/2 = 80% damage.  Exactly the same as the 2H, except far less streaky.  Amazing, I know.I just parsed on some low level weapons the other day to validate DR values and check out the histogram, and shockingly enough, my total damage output was equally propotional to either the displayed DR (in the case of 2H) or the summed displayed DR (in the case of DW).  The simple fact is, tier-wise, DW does more basic autoattack damage than 2H.In the past, DW had its per-hit proc rate halved from the displayed rate.  This has changed though, so weapon-based and applied procs are equally frequent, regardless of DW or 2H, so procs are no longer a factor either.I've yet to see a solid parse of incoming riposte chance and damage, so I can't comment on that.As far as I'm concerned, right now the only tricky part to weapon selection is due to crits, and it's not all that tricky.  Because of the way they implemented it, weapons with a larger min:max ratio will deal more damage due to crits.  The downside is that if your crit rate isn't fairly high, you're just introducing more variance in your autoattack damage, which is bad no matter how you look at it.  If you can get your crit chance high, weapons like the Vraksakin Claw Club become EXTREMELY dangerous, whereas for someone with a low crit chance, it'd really be too random to use.  So there's obviously a tradeoff to be made there.<div></div>

[Zooce]

Sure, but in XP groups it's very rarely just auto attack (we use CAs), and isn't the fact true that you 'waste' less auto hits when using CAs with a slower weapon (as the auto weapon waits to swing for the CA to finish)?

[BenYitzh]

One thing I've wondered, if you only proc from the main hand, then does having an imbued weapon in your off hand serve any purpose? <div></div>

[Dandeli]

<DIV>You can proc off your secondary.</DIV>

[Dahlrek]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Zooce wrote:<div></div>Sure, but in XP groups it's very rarely just auto attack (we use CAs), and isn't the fact true that you 'waste' less auto hits when using CAs with a slower weapon (as the auto weapon waits to swing for the CA to finish)?<hr></blockquote>Yeah, that used to be a huge issue, back when CAs took a while to cast.  It's less of an issue now, but it is certainly true that on average a fast weapon will be penalized more than a slow one.  On the other hand, there are fast 2Hs and slow DWs.The problem is that the complexity in analyzing that penalty is far higher than something as simple as the fact that missing is irrelevant when considering DW vs 2H.  For example, if you know you're going to be spamming and queueing fighter CAs as fast as possible, with no latency delays and no cast time or recovery time modifiers, any autoattacks with a delay  that is a multiple of 0.5s will not be penalized at all, be they 0.5s or 4.0s.  As soon as you start adding in variance in CA frequency, unknown haste modifiers, target switching, getting stunned, and any number of other confounding factors, you end up with a problem that can't really be solved with back of the envelope calculations.That said, if you go into a fight against a single mob with a static haste % and don't get hit by stuns (or if you control for all the related factors there than can cause loss of autoattacks), you can calculate how many autoattacks you should have had.  Compare that with how many you actually got, and you should get a reasonable idea of what your CAs are costing you.  Across the entire userbase it should be true that slower weapons will be penalized less, as I said, but in specific instances you may end up doing better with faster weapon.</div>

[Cyngii]

<P><BR></P> <HR> Dahlrek wrote:<BR>Dude, seriously, you don't get it.  Don't feel bad though, Moorgard always gets it wrong too.<BR><BR> <HR> <P></P> <P>That's got to be one of the funniest statements I've ever read. </P> <P>Simple math aside if you think that it's intended that you do 20% more damage from basically the same weapon in DW over 2h you are sadly mistaken.  All crafted items are for the most part equivilent.  Yeah they have different stats, yeah they have different damage, yeah they have different delays but they are meant to be equivilent.  Per your argument there would never be a reason to go 2h since combined DW DR of eqivilent items will always be higher... Why??  Because when DoF came out 2H weaps were blowing the DW away.  The damage of DW was increased to compensate for this.  You can believe what you want but having been a religious parser if you think equal DR between 2h and DW should do around the same damage you're wrong.  Straight up.  Will it be proportional with lower tiered weapons?  Yeah of course it will be.  Can you compare the DR of different 2h and expect performance differences bases on that?  Yeah you can... You can do the same with comparing DW combos.  If you try to do the same with 2h vx DW you'll get burnt if you look at the straight numbers.<BR></P>

[Dahlrek]

The thing is, it is simple math.  You're claiming that 2H do more damage per DR than DW.  If so, there is a reason.  What is the reason?  It must be something, yes?  It's not that nonsense hit chance stuff you posted, so what is it?There were MANY reasons why 2H were blowing away DW.  Up until the recent normalization change to procs off of CA, I only used 3.8 delay 2Hs because they generated far more procs off of my CAs, allowing me to generate very high burst DPS.  That too was simple math.  Things change.  Just because 2H -was- better than DW, and -then- DW DR got improved, does not mean that -now-, after -more changes-, DW does not do more damage than 2H.  It's not like the designers just suddenly stopped making mistakes. <div></div>

[Sslarrga]

<DIV>Wow, someone still isn't getting it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DW is SUPPOSED to do more damage than 2H period.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why do you say?  Because 2H weapons have some rather huge benefits over the use of DW.  If the damage of DW weapons was equal to that of a 2H I would NEVER EVER EVER use a DW weapon in game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The benefits of a 2H weapon vs DW.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  Damage shields.  You will take far less damage using a 2H weapon.  Attack Corsolander with max haste and fast DW's and watch yourself die in a few seconds.</DIV> <DIV>2.  Ripostes.  You will take slightly less ripostes when using a 2H weapon.  A while back DW was adjusted to get riposted a bit less, but you'll still get riposted more than with a 2H.</DIV> <DIV>3.  When YOU riposte, it uses the damage rating of whatever weapon is in your primary hand.  IE - when you riposte you do more damage with a 2H.</DIV> <DIV>4.  Any reactive.  IE - reactive heals, reactive slows, reactive roots, reactive stuns, etc all will proc less on you with a 2H.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And back when the change to DW damage was first introduced.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Weapon delay used to affect the chance to proc off of a CA.  This is absolutely HUGE, and one of the reasons the Royal Great Flail was so coveted in T5.  IE - in T5 if you wanted to do max DPS you got a 2H weapon...period.  However, as said before this was since changed, but it was still one of the factors that SoE used when they increased DW damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, what are the benefits of DW over 2H to compensate for the above?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  Increased DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And that's pretty much it.  You may be able to get slighly more stats with certain configs, but it's not anything remotely serious compared to the above points.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fact remains, 2 DR 60 weapons will outdamage 1 DR 100 weapon by about 20% for autoattack damage.  Factor in CA's and it's probably closer to approximately 10-15% damage increase.  However, they still aren't the "best" choice in ALL situations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally I carry 5 DW weapons and 2 2H weapons with me wherever I go so that I'm prepared for all situations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And to the poster that wondered about Auto-Attack damage in groups.  Most of the Monk classes DPS comes from Auto-Attack damage.  More-so than the Bruiser.  This is the main reason Bruisers can easily out DPS us on raids...with inferior gear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards,</DIV> <DIV>Croaker</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Sslarrga on <SPAN class=date_text>05-04-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:02 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Sslarrga on <span class=date_text>05-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:03 PM</span>

[Dargr]

<P>Inquisitor, Bruiser, Coercer, Monk, Mystic and Assassin.</P> <P>Monk is level 70 with 50 AA into 5/8/8 STR 4/4/8/4/8 INT tanking in offensive, informs no one to use Stuns.  Pull with ranged on a lvl 70 ^^^ heroic in PoA.  Pop tsunami, fire off a taunt, dragonbreath and every non stun CA available.  Tsunami fades, fire off all stuns in succession w/out waiting on durations.  Mob dies and I have 1497 DPS.  <FONT color=#ffff33>The Assassin logged and refused to talk to me for a day.</FONT></P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Herbster wrote:<BR> <P>Fair enough, but it's the most contrived situational parse you can get.  It's boasting like yours which produce stupid posts because certain guardians read your boasts.</P> <P><FONT color=#6666ff>I hope you got your intended hardon posting the details.</FONT></P> <P>Anjin </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>ROTFL!</P> <P>I like the monk boards!  Soo funny! :smileyvery-happy:<BR></P>

[Cyngii]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sslarrga wrote:<BR> <DIV>Wow, someone still isn't getting it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DW is SUPPOSED to do more damage than 2H period.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards,</DIV> <DIV>Croaker</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Personally i love posts like this (and am convinced Sslarrga and Dahirek are the same person).  I parse every encounter that i fight, so I decided to go through the last Vyemm raid we did since the other raiding monk and I were both in the same group.  Neither one of us had any DPS buffs, we each had the same buffs, we each were at capped STR, and we each had 100% haste.  The only difference being he rolls with the Twin Calamities/Wurmslayer DW option (combined DR of 123.3) and I roll with the Vraksakin Claw Club (DR of 106.4).  Per your arguments the DW setup should be doing 16% more autoattack damage than the 2H.  Per your arguments the slower delay weapon lost the edge it once had since they shortened cast timers on CAs and it shouldn't make a big difference anymore.  Well for the umpteenth time I beg to differ.  Monk 2 (DW) uses every CA available, Monk 1 (me) doesn't use all my CAs on epic encounters.  So as you see on the below parse summary the fact that i don't use a lot of the lower dmg CAs and long cast CAs with the 2H has a large advantage over the DW.  Basically what i did was take 10 consecutive parses including named and non named and merely looked at autoattack damage done per fight since per your arguments casting CAs shouldn't have a detrimental effect.  I then took the average DPS and the standard deviation over the span of the 10 fights.  I was going to keep on going, but got bored and each fight said the same thing.  One other note to keep in mind... Monk 2 has all Master 1 CAs and the total dmg done per fight (including CAs) was almost equal... Just I was doing more dmg with autoattack and he was doing more dmg with CAs.  Enjoy....</P> <P></P> <P>Monk 1: Capped STR, 100% haste, 2H Weapon DR = 106.9    <BR>Monk 2: Capped STR, 100% haste, DW Weapons DR = 123.3    </P> <P>                         Monk 1                                Monk 2 <BR>Fight        Melee DMG     DPS        Melee DMG          DPS<BR>     <BR>1              25279              601.88     20681                  470.02<BR>2              43107              879.73     24075                  547.22<BR>3              16758              1047.37   14420                  389.73<BR>4              38735              691.7       21803                  375.91<BR>5              25942              632.73     16636                  396.1<BR>6              17084              813.52     7490                    267.5<BR>7              17770              740.42     8792                    439.6<BR>8              38301              911.93     21950                  522.62<BR>9              12528              596.57     13572                  590.09<BR>10            37994              633.23     34915                  612.54<BR>Total:       273498                            184334 <BR>     <BR>  Average:                         754.91                                461.13<BR>  Std. Deviation:                153.35                                108.20<BR>      </P>

[Sslarrga]

<DIV>Parsing 2 different people to compare weapons is absolutely useless.  Even more so when groups are involved.  Even more so on raids.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Parse yourself against the same mob self-buffed, autoattack only with 2 DW and a 2-hander if you want to get any meaningful numbers.  And I'd recommend doing at the very least 20 repetitions with each.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>During my last solo parse fest when testing weapon combos and AA combos my numbers for 2 DW had a variance from fight to fight from 390-520 DPS against the exact same mob.  The variance for 2-hander was a lot larger from fight to fight.  Granted those are at the extremes, in general the DW's variance was "generally" between 420-460.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Obviously you haven't or you'd see the difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh and here's a preview Staff of the Flapping wings 108 DR did basically the same averaged DPS as combined DW DR of 105.4 (Katar of four winds and Soulspur).  And loses quite convincingly vs better weapons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards,</DIV> <DIV>Croaker</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also have to wonder at his numbers, I haven't parsed less than 300 on any raid at 100% haste, 0% DPS since I was roughly level 55.  And that was using combined DW DR of around 74.  I'm seriously slacking if I do anything less than 500 (400ish in DT) with 100% haste and 0% DPS.  And it's usually between 700-900 with spikes of 1k with 100% haste and 0% DPS (the fun of being in MT group with no DPS friendly buffs).  Stick me in a DPS group and average jumps to 900-1200.  And that's with combined DR less than his (yay for armor drops off trio in Labs, and lots of swords and daggers).</DIV><p>Message Edited by Sslarrga on <span class=date_text>05-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:54 AM</span>

[zabor]

yeah i'm quite sure monk #2 slacked badly.

[Cyngii]

<P>I give up... believe what you want to believe.  If you want to tell people that DW is always greater DPS than 2h be my guest.  I for one think you argue well and that's about it.</P> <P>If you actually read my post you'de see that we were in the same group, with the same buffs, with the same str, fighting the same mobs, with the same haste % and we're ONLY looking at autoattack damage (we're parsing between 800-1000 dps on these fights overall... and that goes for both of us).  We're both monks, we have the same weapon skill bonuses... you name it.  Whether he was slacking or not (which he wasn't as he was doing far more CA damage than i was) it doesn't matter since Advanced Combat Tracker allows you to look at DPS based on when the individual entered combat and we're looking at nothing more than real life autoattack damage on 10 consecutive fights factoring casting times of CAs.  I would have entered a lot more, but the rest of the 30 parses were showing the same thing.  The fact of the matter is contrary to what a lot believe, casting CAs still does come into play with autoattack damage and it effects weapons with faster delays more than weapons with longer delays.</P>

[Dahlrek]

<div></div>So your "test" has:- Two different players - with different CA usage styles- Two different characters - may cause variance due to randomly resisted debuffs - with unknown AA setups - with different world positions   - may cause variance due to positional avoidance differences   - may cause variance due to radius-limited group buffs- Two different damage types (the 2H does crush, the DWs do pierce) - may cause variance due to target buffs or debuffs- Uncontrolled targets- Uncontrolled start, finish and duration - means further uncontrolled target buffs and debuffs<div></div>And that's supposed to be useful?  WRU science education.