Winding Dragon vs Spider Stance

[Velor]

<DIV>Before yesterday, I had App 4 of Spider Stance and App 4 of Winding Dragon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I almost always use Spider Stance. I just always leave it up. It's actually been a long time since I even used Winding Dragon last so I'm not too sure how the two skills compare against each other at level 50. I'm just not a big fan of the negatives that WD brings to my skills.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The main reason why I bring this up though is because someone offered me a Master 1 of Winding Dragon yesterday and I'm trying to decide if it's worth the 5p asking price or not. I normally wouldn't really consider it for that price but this is one of our offensive buffs so it's value is going to be higher than one of our attacks.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm looking for 2 things, if possible:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) stats on the Master 1 of Winding Dragon if someone can post them</DIV> <DIV>2) thoughts from others on their experiences with WD versus Spider Stance</DIV>

[Gaige]

<DIV>It has been my experience that upgrading stances is barely an upgrade.  My adept III dragon stance was almost identical, as was my friends adept III spider stance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5pp is a lot, and I'm not too sure its worth it.</DIV>

[Wiou]

<DIV>Upgrade anyway.</DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wiou wrote:<BR> <DIV>Upgrade anyway.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You do realize he is talking about 5 plat right?  For a stance that will probably just cost more power?<BR>

[Wiou]

If thats true gage, then its a bug. And it will be fixed. It's called "upgrading" for a reason. If things are a better upgrade, then upgrade those instead. But he's just talking about stances. I say upgrade.

[Gaige]

<DIV>I guess.  All I know is I've had dragon stance adept III forever and the only difference is it costs more power.  If you read the bruiser forum you will see that most masters are NOT worth 1pp, let alone 5pp.</DIV>

[Wiou]

Yeah, but if you've got a ton of money and dont know what else to do with it, I would. But if I valued my money and didnt have a ton of it, id get something else

[Winn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wiou wrote:<BR>Yeah, but if you've got a ton of money and dont know what else to do with it, I would. But if I valued my money and didnt have a ton of it, id get something else<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Err... so you're basically asking him to throw money away??</P> <P>Not sure if you've played SOE's other games, but class specific fixes come rarely (as opposed to nerfs) and it will be quite some time before he will see the benefits of paying 5 plat.</P> <P>I would rather use the 5 plat and buy swiftforge knuckles or another rare weapon from those raiding guilds that spend for a master 1 stance.  It's quite likely that no one will be buying that off him for 5plat soon, and you could probably buy it off him for 2pp when he's more desperate in the future. I'd never pay more than 2pp for a master skill since difference between adept3 (cost 1.6pp for ruby) and master skill is not worth the 2-3pp extra.</P> <P>Not sure if it is intentional, but adept 3/master 1 upgrades have VERY LITTLE improvement over app4/adept1.  Mages and priests however, have a tremendous boost in ability from master1 skills. Probably to offset the barely noticeable improvements when they upgrade their gear as well.</P> <P> </P> <P>Summary: Don't get it. Stances are well known for their lack of scalability. If it was Master 1 Silent Fist i'd say go for it....</P>

[Velor]

<DIV>Thanks for the input all. I've decided to hold off on it for now. :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[NeVeRLi]

A Master Stop Heart would be interesting to see. Can anyone comment on if Stop Heart improves even at adept III?I just got adept 1 of it and its a big improvement over app 1.

[SGTChan]

<P>For Spider Stance, App1 and Adept 1 were the exact same except the power cost (adept1 was like 8 more points or some such of power useage)</P> <P>Stop Heart Adept 3 was a noticeable upgrade from App4</P> <P> </P> <P>Chandalen</P> <P>44 Monk</P> <P> </P>

[tigressb]

I had a ranger friend in my group in Sol Eye parse my dps with spider stance and with winding dragon.  My winding dragon was app4, spider stance app1.  Only other buff I had up was my haste buff and static group buffs from healer type.  My dps with Spider Stance against a 49^^ giant was 127 after fight done.  My dps against next 49th ^^ giant with Winding Dragon was 107.  I'm not sure if this info helps or not, but I took Winding Dragon off my hotkey bar and am not upgrading it anymore. Bajia Kalih 46th level half elf monk Befallen Server <div></div>

[Siberia2]

Winding Dragon VS Spider Stance.. Hmmm.. I have about 10% clue as to the stats of these off the top of my head, but I know one thing.. I ALWAYS have Winding Dragon up.. Spider Stance gives a 10% Haste.. but when Everburning Flame(Or is it fire? bah, I'm half asleep <span>:smileytongue:</span> ) is up.. Which it always is, aswell(thanks, Devs).. the 10% is negated and overwritten by Everburning Fire/Flame.. Spider Stance is more for Tanking, In my opinion.. which I don't do often(I dislike it lol.. funny since I chose a tank class).. It's situational.. but the Boost from Winding Dragon + 48% Haste(Master Everburning.. 44 skill) is significant, as far as I can tell. Hope this helps.. Oh, and about upgrading..  Meh..  it will most likely drop again.. wait 'till it's fixed.. Patience, Grasshoppa <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> <div></div>

[Amanojak]

I prefer Dragon Stance for the +10 boost to crushing/slashing skill.

[Wiou]

Wow I wrote that along time ago. Ignore my posts. After a while I've come to realize that most abilities regardless if its a stance or not just ends up taking more power.. with minimal damage increase compared to it. So to some it may be an "upgrade" when really its not. <span>:smileymad:</span> <div></div>

[SGTChan]

<P>Duplicate message deleted</P><p>Message Edited by SGTChan on <span class=date_text>04-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:01 AM</span>

[SGTChan]

<DIV>After viewing all the benifits...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Winding Dragon  lose 7 to melee skills, gain 9 to Defence</DIV> <DIV>Spider stance  gain 15 to Defence AND Deflection</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The DPS gain of WD is over written by quiet purity (9%)</DIV> <DIV>The Haste of Spider Stance is overwritten by Everburning Flame (30%)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So i go for Spider Stance</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Chandalen</DIV> <DIV>44 Monk</DIV>