Gut Roar working as intented?

[Hardain]

Anyone else noticed that when you cast this spell, the mob is still landing CA's and spells on you? It does sometimes counter it, but then there is alot of situations where it doesn't work. Mainly tested it when soloing at CastleMM's zone in, inside the zone that is, i can clearly see the icon on mob's debuff bar, but i still get those stifles and other crap on me. Bugged, working as intented, or am i missing something?<div></div>

[Dimgl]

<div><blockquote><hr>Undercova wrote:Anyone else noticed that when you cast this spell, the mob is still landing CA's and spells on you? It does sometimes counter it, but then there is alot of situations where it doesn't work. Mainly tested it when soloing at CastleMM's zone in, inside the zone that is, i can clearly see the icon on mob's debuff bar, but i still get those stifles and other crap on me. Bugged, working as intented, or am i missing something?<div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#00cc99">Working fine and working as intended. Gut Roar specifically states it works on Profession CAs or Spells. That means it (generally) only works on abilities native to the 24 classes available to player characters in EQ2. Sadly this also means that it is limited to 1.) Intelligent/Sentient Humanoids which do not have superceding racial classes and 2.) Monsters/Animals which for one reason or another have a class, and not a race. For example wolves as a rule have "Wolf Class Abilities" and belong to the wolf race, whereas Basilisks are often Guardians, and have no race. It is very hit or miss which monster/animal types have races. Octopi for example have racial abilities, as do turtles, both being rare enemies, however again the more common Basilisk enemy has no race.The mobs in Mistmoore Castle belong to a special "class" of Vampires, and have abilities which are native and reflective of that classification, such as Greater Impale, which does not belong to any class and would not be stopped by Gut Roar, even though it is a direct copy/paste of our old Vanquish line (animation and all.) However, returning to the Basilisk example yet again, their use of the ability Crumble would be stopped as it belongs to Guardians. Because of this Gut Roar is never going to work on most boss mobs, and almost never work in raid settings. However it can stop an ability like dispatch from raid trash.That aside, Gut Roar needs some help. As of right now it's use is a bit screwy. It's insulting that the ability has -no animation- to start off with, this is just plain negligence. The resistance is way too high at only +7% harder (we're talking app2 accuracy,) and on top of that it uses heat resist. A resist of Gut Roar yields the message "You try to BURN target with Gut Roar, but they resist!" Last I checked we weren't Wizards, and we sure don't breathe fire, that's for Monks. We're berserkers, we shouldn't be casting a single [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] spell, and the only thing coming out of our mouths is a war cry or an expletive. Add onto this that as an ultimate it is only useful in very specific zones and against specific targets and you've got a pretty weak ultimate. Don't get me wrong, I find it to be quite powerful where it CAN be used, but it isn't reliable at all due to resist rate/specificity, and if you also have the Cyclones ultimate, you will find yourself unable to use it in many locations due to the 15m radius you get with both ultimates together, leading to pulling enemies through floors.As a PVP player I do have to say it is pretty powerful in respect to PVP, especially against casters. I've had Warlock's Rifts countered, saving my group almost half their HP. I am also fortunate in that in PVP the ability can't "not work" because all PCs belong to PC classes.Regardless, I plan on making a topic about the issues with the zerker tree after I get a few more points and get some free time. Gut Roar however at this point is useful, however it is poorly tweaked and lacking in flavor and reliability.</font></div>

[hakedu]

<P>hm, why should gut roar not work on boss mobs? i have checked logs from lab, hos and inner sanctum and it counters spells from the boss mobs. Maybe i am wrong, but i guess that most boss mobs use some profession spells.</P> <P>gut roar is very easy resisted in the beginning of a fight, so i would only cast it if the mob is debuffed.</P>

[Obadiah]

<P>I have noticed it resisted and had to recast it, but never had it go off and then not counter anything. I always have seen the "Countered" message flash by.</P> <P>However, on another note rearding it. . . the target of the CA is "Self", so is it supposed to pull mobs? I was going to body pull some stuff in the proximity of other mobs. Harder hitting stuff, so I threw Gut Roar up before I moved in to pull . . . and it pulled the group I had targeted, which then pulled 2 other groups through social aggro. So that was fun. </P> <P>I haven't done that again, but should a self-target buff pull aggro lke that? Has anyone else noticed it doing that or was it just me? (Not something I've attempted again since then)</P>

[Kaberu]

Perhaps what several other classes have been complaining about is true... the class-specific AAs are geared towards PvP. A few other bits of knowledge have quickly stripped away my interest from the new lines as well. I hit the mid 80s in AAs and for the most part, don't really care about AAs anymore.The finals are extremely gimped. If you max out your two regeneration lines and they are at Master 1, you are sitting right around +200 HP per tick not including the natural regen. Since the max HP regen at 70 is 210 per tick, why is +100 HP per tick when under 30% health going to help? At best you'll see a couple extra points per tick. I guess it's useful when not tanking (since the self proc won't trigger) but if an AOE takes you down to less than 30%, the long delay in ticks is not going to save you by the next time the AOE hits. The clickable berserk seems only useful for forcing Juggernaut if you even see juggernaut as a useful ability. By the looks of it, the forced berserk only adds around +17 to haste and DPS while my own berserk is approaching +30. I don't even think that apprentice 1 is as low as +17.And of course, now there may be an issue with Gut Roar as mention above. It seems like the most useful ability is the +10% taunt resist bonus that tags along with the largely inconsequential range increase for AOEs. But seeing as how Aggression weeds out most of the "resists" we use to see with taunts, I'm wondering if there is anything worth investing in. <div></div>

[Vindorus]

Hey there...oh my...thats crap, really. They should be more clear in the description or something...would be better if they change it to any combat art or spell. I think I will respec my line and skill the AE ability and taunt resists. <div></div>

[Dimgl]

<font color="#00cc99">You guys are amazing sometimes, seriously the wild conspiracy theories and bizarre accusations are pretty out there. Did you ever stop to look at your other AOE abilities? You might notice that Bloodbath, Berserker Onslaught, Insolent Gibe, and other point-blank AOE abilities (PBAOE) use "Self" as target as well. That means YOU are the point of origin of the effect. Or are you trying to say you'd hit yourself with Bloodbath or Onslaught on every use?The color behind the icon for Gut Roar is blue. That means it is an AOE ability. Max targets of 8. Everything about this ability is almost a copy paste of Bloodbath excluding replacing damage with a debuff, which makes sense, it exists at the bottom of our debuffing tree... If it were a buff on us it would be yellow, if it were a group buff it would be blue and list group as target.Finally it does work, you get a specific counter message and no damage is taken. The person who experienced it not working may be mistaken in combat messages.Now many of you claim this is a PVP ability, as a berserker with experience using it in solo PVE, group PVE, raid main-tanking, and PVP I can say the following.Solo PVE: Allows us to wipe some heroic groups taking under 1000 damage, if for whatever reason you are a solo zerker, this ability is incredibly useful in saving yourself damage against group encounters, especially caster mobs.Group PVE: Can completely cripple and negate spiky encounters and turn them into cakewalks. Tired of being hit by Crumble, or Corrosive Strike spam off a group? Turn a heroic group of warlocks that used to nuke you for 900 each nuke with corrosive strike into a weaksauce group of enemies that will barely hit you 2 times if you've got good evasion.Raid MT: Has countered hits for over 5000 damage. How about dispatch hitting your MT? Not anymore with Gut Roar.  5k damage assassin backstabs to the MT's front? Nuh-uh.  Berserker mobs using stunning howl and stunning the entire MT group for 2.5seconds? Not anymore. Two or three berserkers with this on a raid can completely shut down some encounters (not all obviously.) I've even had Gut Roar stop Shredder from landing some 3-5k damage combat arts. The use is varied and powerful, however there are also encounters where Gut Roar does absolutely nothing. That's the tradeoff of this ability. They can never make it work on all CAs and spells because it would allow it to encounter abilities that are key to encounters, such as raid mob AOEs.PVP: This spell has a 7% harder resist modifier. Most people run around with TONS of heat resist in PVP as it is so easy to get. It has only about a 50% rate of landing on players, it is definitely useful in PVP, I won't argue that, but the place where it has made the biggest difference so far is definitely raid MTing. Regardless, Gut Roar is less reliable on enemy players than it is on a level 75 epic x4. Take that for what you will.</font><div></div>

[Kaberu]

We're amazing? Didn't you just go from saying that Gut Roar needs some TLC, is not reliable, can't be used in many places (all for PvE) and is powerful in PvP ... to now saying that it's nearly a godsend to berserkers in PvE and it's not as hot in PvP with only working maybe 50% of the time?Am I missing something there? That was you in both of the posts was it not?I do see PvP being spotty at best as it can soak some minor spell or CA being spammed instead of the big McNasty that you were hoping for. Then again, this can also happen with mobs which might be where some people think it might not be working.<div></div>

[Triste-Lune]

i m such a slacker i still havent gotten it.Is it countering spell like prone to corruption, searing rot, cloud of torpor etc etc? if not i dont see the point, orange mob already laught at 7% easier to resist.i ll pick that ability anyway cause there is just nothing else worth getting, it s really a shame to have such lame AA compare to some other class, and dont get me started about out class armor.

[Obadiah]

<DIV>Bah. I'm such a noob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wasn't really considering that it didn't have a yellow background like the other self-buffs. Dar. Like I said though, won't make that mistake again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The resistability just keeps it form being too powerful. Yeah, sometimes against yellows and oranges I'm getting resisted. Resisted a couple times even, but it's still worth it when you can land it. It's like having someone throw Intercede on you. It's the only Berserker specific AA end-ability that looked real attractive to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hey, so YOU'RE the guy that wrote that Warrior AA FAQ that I keep looking at to try to figure out how to respec and get it right this time. :smileyvery-happy: Nice work. Where's the Berserker specific one. :smileytongue:</DIV>

[Dimgl]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kaberu wrote:We're amazing? Didn't you just go from saying that Gut Roar needs some TLC, is not reliable, can't be used in many places (all for PvE) and is powerful in PvP ... to now saying that it's nearly a godsend to berserkers in PvE and it's not as hot in PvP with only working maybe 50% of the time?Am I missing something there? That was you in both of the posts was it not?I do see PvP being spotty at best as it can soak some minor spell or CA being spammed instead of the big McNasty that you were hoping for. Then again, this can also happen with mobs which might be where some people think it might not be working.<div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#00cc99">I don't see any conflict with my first post. First post lists the applicable targets, then explains why it doesn't work on some enemies in MMC, or why people would experience it failing to do anything in some settings. Then I list the real problems with Gut Roar, or the things that I agree need some TLC as you put it: Uses heat resist (this doesn't fit our class, we shouldn't be able to cast spells.) Has no animation (this is just negligence.) Resistability is weak (app level.) The last real problem isn't native to the ability, but is a result of combining it with Cyclones, and that is that it has too large of an effect radius. These problems are mostly cosmetic, or are problems of oversight. They aren't issues with the mechanic at all, the mechanic is working flawlessly, despite bad rumors and poor word of mouth.It doesn't work on many raid bosses that use entirely home brewn abilities, but I did state as a caveat it DOES work on raid trash, and on abilities like dispatch. Obviously it can never work fully on all CAs/Spells without raids bringing 6 berserkers to trivialize the world. Then finally I state it can be powerful in PVP, especially against casters, this is fairly intuitive because all enemies in PVP can be countered by Gut Roar where not all mobs can be.Second post: I was surprised at the lingering confusion of mechanics, listed the clues as to how the ability works, denied the conspiracy of it being "pvp only" and then made a list of the effects the ability has on encounters where it CAN be used, so that a berserker from any walk of life who is considering gut roar could take a look and consider the ability in that light. I reiterated the word "some" many times in this section, putting emphasis on the strengths of this ability in PVE when it works, then also again stating that there are encounters where this ability will do nothing for you. Finally I say that Gut Roar is very powerful in PVP, but isn't reliable. Then I gave you a comparison of how hard the ability is to land on players, saying it is harder to land on PCs than a 75x4. How is this different from my earlier post? I just offered more information to give the people convinced that Gut Roar is a "PVP only" spell another perspective. Yes, it can save your group from eating a Warlock's AOE, but if your choices are using Gut Roar, or using Bloodbath to stun and knock them down, Bloodbath is a more reliable choice to stop their casting. Or just get on the Warlock yourself if you're not taunt-locked, and use a stifle or interrupt of your own.To offer a bit more PVP perspective, you guys on PVE are used to mobs with 0 mitigation, 0 resists, and minimal avoidance. In PVP you can fight another tank with 50% avoidance, 50% mit and 50% all resists fairly easily. At the end of the fight my accuracy may be only 40-50% on auto attack and 70-85% on abilities or so, and that's not a bad accuracy. On a non-tank I may end up around 70-80% auto-attack and 90-95% off CAs, but almost never will you hit 100% of the time in PVP, especially with spells, as everyone has resists, but not everyone has avoidance. Gut Roar landing 50% of the time is below average by 20-30% for an ability (abilities all have higher accuracy than auto-attack,) but still within the expected range of resists in PVP. It's powerful, but not reliable.The point of it all is that 90% of berserkers I talk to think that Gut Roar is trash, because they have erroneous perceptions of it, or think the mechanic is bugged or broken (I imagine the complete lack of an animation helps in this perception, the casting bar goes, and you stand there doing nothing, and unless it happens to be the right kind of mob, nothing happens,) partly because of baseless rumors and misunderstandings on the forum here, and partly because of bad word of mouth in game. As a result they never try it for themselves, or they do try it, get confused, and spec out of it within a night or two. Gut Roar is our most powerful EOF ultimate, Cyclones is more powerful for a dedicated high end tank or raid tank for reducing taunt resists, but Gut Roar is useful for every walk of life a Berserker may follow.</font></div>

[Kaberu]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Dimglow wrote:<div><font color="#00cc99">(Insert Long Reply Here) </font></div><hr></blockquote>Translation: "<i>No, not at all.</i>"Me: Ah, OK!</div><p>Message Edited by Kaberu on <span class=date_text>01-19-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:47 AM</span>

[Mjollnyr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaberu wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dimglow wrote: <DIV><BR><FONT color=#00cc99>(Insert Long Reply Here) </FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Translation: "<I>No, not at all.</I>"<BR><BR>Me: Ah, OK!<BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Kaberu on <SPAN class=date_text>01-19-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:47 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This made me LOL irl.</P>