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Bremer

12-28-2006, 04:58 AM

<img src="http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2726/zerkaj3.jpg"> Perseverance Enhance Chaos: Improves reuse speed by 3 seconds per rank (5 ranks) Comment: ok, a must have for every Zerker Suggestions: - Enhance Combative Rage: Increase regeneartion by 6 % per rank (5 ranks) Comment: ok for solo players Suggestions: should be 10 % like Enhance Blood Craze Enhance Blood Craze: Increase regeneration by 10 % per rank (5 ranks) Comment: ok for solo players Suggestions: - Enhance Surpressed Rage: Reduce penalties by 20 % per rank (5 ranks) Comment: pretty weak enhancement, if I use this spell I don't mind the penalties Suggestions: add increased duration, reduced recast time or improved avoidance gain to the enhancement Enhance Unyielding will: Don't die if beserk (1 rank) Comment: Zerkers allready have Vision of Madness, so why another death prevention spell? Usually people don't like to die so often that they need so many of these spells. Suggestions: no idea what i should think of this Enhance Vision of Madness: Improves reuse speed by 100 seconds per rank (5 ranks) Comment: ok, I think Suggestions: should be 2-3 minutes per rank Perseverance: Increase health regeneration of caster by 100 if under 30% health (1 rank) Comment: ok for solo players Suggestions: - Line critic: Seems like the line for solo players with hp reg improvement until you reach the cap, for everyone else except Enhance Chaos completely useless Cyclone Enhance Bloodbath: Increases damage by 5 % per rank (5 ranks) Comment: not bad, but no overall improvement in total damage Suggestions: add 0.2-0.3 seconds cast time reduction per rank and/or 2-4 seconds reduced recast time per rank Enhance Beserker Onslaught: Increases damagy by 5 % (5 ranks) Comment/ Suggestions: see above Enhance Stunning Howl: Increases damage by 5 % (5 ranks) Comment/ Suggestions: see above Enhance Destruction: Improves reuse speed by 5 seconds per rank (5 ranks) Comment: not bad Suggestions: should be 9-12 seconds per rank Enhance Open Wounds: Improves reuse speed by 5 seconds per rank (5 ranks) Comment: not bad Suggestions: should be 9-12 seconds per rank Cyclones: Increase radius of AE combat arts by 5, reduce ressitability of taunts by 10 % (1 rank) Comment: a joke, the 5m increased radius is a real bad joke and the in the last minute before release added reduced taunt ressistability doesn't make it better. Probably the worst final ability of all 24 class trees (prove if I'm wrong). Suggestions: delete and make a new ability Line critic: pretty weak line, Beserker Onslaught, Bloodbath und Stunning Howl play only a minor role in our overall DPS, even in zones like Lyceum that are full of group encounters they only make 1-2 % of the zone DPS. The Destruction and Open Wounds enhancements are good, but in my opiniona little bit too weak. For the final ability I have no words... Debilitation-line Enhance Violent Pledge: Increase damange and taunt amount by 4 % per rank (5 ranks) Comment: not bad, a must have for every Zerker Suggestions: why do all combat arts get 5 % and this enhancement only 4 %? It should be 5 % too. Enhance Persistent Battering: Increase offensive skill reduction by 10 % per rank (5 ranks) Comment: every point here is wasted, a minor enhancement to a minor debuff doesn't make it a good debuff Suggestions: add at least 2-3 % increased damage per rank Enhance Agonizing Press: Increase Duartion by 0.3 seconds per rank (5 ranks) Comment: for solo play not bad, in groups limited use, on raids useless Suggestions: add at least 2-3 % increased damage per rank to compensate uselessness in non-solo play Enhance Disfigure: Increase attack speed reduction by 2 per rank (5 ranks) Comment: for solo play not bad, in groups and raids pretty useless because other classes debuff a lot more haste Suggestions: add at least 2-3 % increased damage per rank to compensate uselessness in non-solo play Enhance Ruthless Strike: Increases casting skill reduction by 10 % and improves reuse speed by 1 second per rank (5 ranks) Comment: I rarely use this spell because it deals only minor damage and I highly doubt that debuffing focus has any impact on mobs at all Suggestions: add at least 10 % increased damage per rank Enhance Demolish: Increase duartion by 0.3 seconds per rank (5 ranks) Comment: Since this was spell was nerfed from a stun to a useless stiffle the power cost is at least 30-40 % to high. This should be fixed before SOE offers enhancements for this spell line, especially because the Zerker class sets also improve the recast of the spell. Suggestions: Fix the spell power cost, increase damage by 2-4 % per rank and maybe instead of increasing the useless stiffle (who cares if a mob is stiffled if still almost all his damage output comes from autoattack?) convert part of the stiffle with every rank in a pacify or stun. Gut Roar: Provides a 100 % chance to Counter the effects of all damage spells 1 time, 15 sec duration (1 rank, 60 sec recast) Comment: our only usefull final ability Suggestions: - Line critic: Very weak line, except Enhance Violent Pledge there is nothing usefull here and this in the only line with a great final ability... Zerkers are no debuffers, it's simply not the role of the class, so what's the idea behind this line? Every enhancement (except Violent Pledge) should at least receive increased damage. The way it is now you have to waste 15 points in this line if you want Gut Roar, very disappointing. The enhancements should be a lot more desireable. Bulking Enhance Engulfing Rage: Increase trigger chance by 1 % per rank (5 ranks) Comment: According to the spell description you should have 5 Beserk procs per minute (2 from Engulfing Rage, 3 from War Cry, each lasting 10 seconds) just by hitting a mob plus extra procs for being hit by the mob (30 % + 5 % chance). So, in theory, the self Beserk proc should be up 100 % of the time. And so, if not either the proc description or the proc is broken, why should anyone need an enhancement for the self proc buff? Suggestion: As said, if not the proc description or the proc are broken, this is completely useless and should be removed from the tree for a more usefull ability. Enhance War Cry: Increase trigger chance by 1 % per rank (3 ranks, 2 points) Comment: could be usefull in groups or on raids if you are in melee groups Suggestion: How exactly do you see an improvement by this enhancement if it increases the % chance to proc and in the spell description you see the procs per minute? Enhance Wall of Ferocity: Increases durationby 3 seconds (5 ranks) Comment: good enhancement, a must have for every Zerker Suggestion: - Enhance Weapon Aegis: Improves reuse speed by 2 seconds per rank (5 ranks) Comment: nice enhancement Suggestion: - Enhance Juggernaut: Increase duration by 2 seconds per rank (5 ranks) Comment: I hate this spell, in my opinion it an insult to the whole Beserker class Suggestion: In the beta for a while this Enhancement reduced the penalties by 10 % per rank. Why was this changed? Make it reduce the penalties 20 % per rank, 5 ranks and this would be fine. Beserk: Go instantly Beserk for 10 seconds (17 haste/dps at lvl 70) (1 rank, 90 sec recast) Comment: See Enhance Engulfing Rage. Before spending one single point in the Bulkling line you should allready be in Beserk mode 100 % of the time, if you are here and can choose this final ability you allready spent at least 3 points to enhance the self Beserk buff. More than Beserk all the time is not possible, so why another Beserk that is weaker and therefore overwritten by our own buffs? Suggestion: Completely useless, should be removed for a usefull final ability. Line critic: A very strange line that makes in this combination no sense. First increased proc chance for a buff that should always be up, than a must have buff for every tank and than a must not have buff for every tank and finally the useless final ability. This line needs a lot of tweaking.<div></div>

lost

12-28-2006, 09:09 PM

Is that picture from beta, or live? I could have sworn that Enhance Unyielding WIll is below Enhance Combatitive Rage.Anyway, from a PvP perspective, I have to add a few things about enhancements to skills. I actually really like the increased duration on the stun and stifle for solo and small group pvp since you can generally keep someone from using a CA or spell for about 10 seconds with the enhancements. It obviously isn't huge, but it is a nice enhancement nonetheless. Also, the Unyielding WIll can be valuable to save you in a close fight in PvP, and from a lack of great other pvp skills, I have chosen it.<div></div>

Daghammerskold

12-28-2006, 09:13 PM

Gut Roar: Provides a 100 % chance to Counter the effects of all damage spells 1 time, 15 sec duration (1 rank, 60 sec recast)What exactly does Counter mean here? Is it just avoid the damage from the spell? Or is it reflect the damage back at the caster? Something else?<div></div>

Bremer

12-28-2006, 11:16 PM

According to a thread someone wrote here in the Zerker forum (should be on the first 3 pages, just look a little bit) it nullifies the effect of any damage spell. I confirm it myself because I still need 12 points to get it.No offend, but I don't really care about PvP. I play on a PvE server like the vast majority of players (over 20 PvE servers vs soon only 3 PvP). So I see no good reason to gear the Zerker AAs towards PvP if almost all Zerkers play on PvE servers. And I made the picture yesterday.<div></div>

Xandax1

12-29-2006, 02:37 PM

I'm not sure what kind of berserker you are, but as a berserker in a pretty hardcore raiding guild I believe you have everything wrong... In the raiding role I offer quite a bit to dps classes, I'm often chosen for what I bring to a dps group in a 4x raid. Usually I do around 900-1200 on raids in the usual group setup, sometimes less sometimes up to 2kish. I'm specced for dps and off tanking and I've tested all lines except for the trigger line. 5 points into Mayhem recast timer... worthless Mayhem gives you 700 mitigation for 30 seconds.. thats hardly anything nowadays and to waste a whole 5 points into this skill to get it to cast like a few seconds quicker is a stupid idea. If you rely so heavily on a 1/4 of the time 700 extra mit, then you shouldn't be tanking. Unyielding Will - In most situations you will be berserk when you die or should die. If you are infact berserk when this goes off it will not kill you. What's not to like about a second VoM?? M1 Stifled Rage is like 33 defense... if you put 5 points into reducing the negative effects of it, you are getting 33 defense for free for a short duration... awesome 5 points into Combative Rage/Blood Craze regen increases - awesome... I'm nearly capped for incombat health regen and with the ultimate in this line, it allows you to live longer in duels and non raid situations. Regen Line is for the win Cyclone line is also for the win... most of our dps originates from massive and constant AE damage 25% damage increase for all 3 of our AEs is amazing.. I critted for 4000+ with berserker onslaught tonight because I had 5 points in it. Now what if I told you I critted on a 4 mob encounter for 4000+ each? 16k hit for the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]in win. Open wounds and destruction timers lowered allows me to crank out the dps more often and with less care to saving my timers. I love this line so much... The ultimate is pretty good, it's kinda nasty with such a large AE range and I guess I can't really notice the 5% less resistability... it's all good though. Debilitation Line Gutroar as of right now is too unreliable... sure its every minute but I can't cast it expecting to absorb the hit I want it to... It's not worth dropping 20 or 15 points to get this pos. Only worthwhile skill is 5 points into Violent Pledge. The others are like stun increases and debuff increases.. good for pvp and whatnot but not worth spending for increasing for PVE debuffs... Trigger Line The trigger line seems pretty sucky, I believe zerkers should be nearly 100% berserk in the first place. The final pisses me off as well... Wall of Ferocity and Weapon Guard points are stupid, read my description for Mayhem increaser. If you need the mitigation that bad, then you suck at life. Juggernaut duration increaser is the only worthwhile skill in this line, it's a shame its so far a way from the other 2 useful lines. If you think Juggernaut is an insult to the berserker class, then you sir have no clue what a true berserker is. With juggernaut I can crank out insane dps and take a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on a berserker who thinks juggernaut is a worthless skill. It's definately worth it to increase juggernaut duration to reach the duration open wounds is. All in all I believe the beginner of this thread has our aa's all wrong. By the way you are treating our aas and your suggestions, I think you should probably betray to a guardian.

Legiax

12-29-2006, 05:45 PM

The OP clearly does not roll on a PvP server, i didnt bother to check though. Our regen lines are good. however im at 143 health regen without any AA lines, and the cap is 150, so no point in me taking this. The reduced recast timer on Mayhem sucks, its not enough. The upgrade to unyielding will = awesome. Cyclone line = amazing, probably our strongest line by a long shot. I have this entire line maxed out and its superb. Debilitation for PvP is awesome, the upgrade to the debuff from persistant battering makes a huge difference. The line with Weapon Aegis etc is probably the weakest. Infact, i'll just say it, its [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

Bremer

12-29-2006, 11:38 PM

<blockquote><hr>Xandax1 schrieb:<div></div> I'm not sure what kind of berserker you are, but as a berserker in a pretty hardcore raiding guild I believe you have everything wrong... In the raiding role I offer quite a bit to dps classes, I'm often chosen for what I bring to a dps group in a 4x raid. Usually I do around 900-1200 on raids in the usual group setup, sometimes less sometimes up to 2kish. I'm specced for dps and off tanking and I've tested all lines except for the trigger line. 5 points into Mayhem recast timer... worthless Mayhem gives you 700 mitigation for 30 seconds.. thats hardly anything nowadays and to waste a whole 5 points into this skill to get it to cast like a few seconds quicker is a stupid idea. If you rely so heavily on a 1/4 of the time 700 extra mit, then you shouldn't be tanking. Unyielding Will - In most situations you will be berserk when you die or should die. If you are infact berserk when this goes off it will not kill you. What's not to like about a second VoM?? M1 Stifled Rage is like 33 defense... if you put 5 points into reducing the negative effects of it, you are getting 33 defense for free for a short duration... awesomeSo (almost) permanent around 4 % more mitigation from Enhanc Mayhem or Wall of Ferocity sucks, but 4 % more avoidance from Stiffled Rage is great? 5 points into Combative Rage/Blood Craze regen increases - awesome... I'm nearly capped for incombat health regen and with the ultimate in this line, it allows you to live longer in duels and non raid situations.Regen Line is for the win How exactly does about 200 regen per tick help you when tanking epics that hit you for 5k+? You get maybe one tick and than your healers should have you back at 100 % health. Waste AA points just for winning duels? lol Cyclone line is also for the win... most of our dps originates from massive and constant AE damage 25% damage increase for all 3 of our AEs is amazing.. I critted for 4000+ with berserker onslaught tonight because I had 5 points in it. Now what if I told you I critted on a 4 mob encounter for 4000+ each? 16k hit for the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]in win.Only because you had a random luck high critical hit in one fight you'll hardly have a noticable higher zone DPS. Open wounds and destruction timers lowered allows me to crank out the dps more often and with less care to saving my timers. I love this line so much... The ultimate is pretty good, it's kinda nasty with such a large AE range and I guess I can't really notice the 5% less resistability... it's all good though. 5m more or less make no difference, you stand direct in front of the mob and will hit the mob, if you don't hit the because you were too far away you positioned yourself wrong. Debilitation Line Gutroar as of right now is too unreliable... sure its every minute but I can't cast it expecting to absorb the hit I want it to... It's not worth dropping 20 or 15 points to get this pos. Only worthwhile skill is 5 points into Violent Pledge. The others are like stun increases and debuff increases.. good for pvp and whatnot but not worth spending for increasing for PVE debuffs... Yes, that's why I think the whole line should be improved. Trigger Line The trigger line seems pretty sucky, I believe zerkers should be nearly 100% berserk in the first place. The final pisses me off as well... Wall of Ferocity and Weapon Guard points are stupid, read my description for Mayhem increaser. If you need the mitigation that bad, then you suck at life.Concerning Wall of Ferocity see above. Enhance Weapon Aegis increases the damage of this combat art by 50 %, I get higher zone DPS with Weapon Aegis than Bloodbath, Stunning Howl or Onslaught (well, if the mobs manage to hit me, in Labs i hardly get hit 3 times in 20 seconds) Juggernaut duration increaser is the only worthwhile skill in this line, it's a shame its so far a way from the other 2 useful lines. If you think Juggernaut is an insult to the berserker class, then you sir have no clue what a true berserker is. With juggernaut I can crank out insane dps and take a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on a berserker who thinks juggernaut is a worthless skill. It's definately worth it to increase juggernaut duration to reach the duration open wounds is. Juggernaut is our only combat art that is not usefull when tanking and therefore it sucks. No sane tank would cast a spell that lowers all resistances and mitigation by over 800, parry and defense by 24 and costs hp to cast while tanking. All in all I believe the beginner of this thread has our aa's all wrong. By the way you are treating our aas and your suggestions, I think you should probably betray to a guardian.And the way you should think about our class you should probably better play a DD class (Wizard, Assasin, whatever you like) instead of a tank.<hr></blockquote>

Xandax1

12-30-2006, 02:04 AM

<DIV>Let's face it, a guild that uses a berserker as the MT is losing out on some good Guardian action. If you are going to MT labs/lyceum/HoS/ even DT [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], you dont need any of these AAs to do it -- hell you could tank it all without using any temp mit/avoidance buffs probably.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never said Mayhem or Wall of Ferocity or Stifled Rage were going to be up permanently or even close to 100% of the time, I said 1/4 of the time. That's minimal, those are good maybe once a fight at the very beginning when the mob is being debuffed. Who needs Mayhem more then once a fight and even if its a named, you can't count on when you hit Mayhem that it will be the most effective time to use it... Stifled Rage is better then WoF or Mayhem because we plate tanks are short on avoidance and an increase in avoidance is going to be exponentially better than a diminishing returns increase in mitigation. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you need to rely so heavily on your temp buffs, someone in the raid is not doing their job. Either debuffs, intercedes, main group healing, or out of group healing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I look at all our EoF AAs and I see mostly trash, I duel alot for fun and I think making my character better in duels isn't a waste at all of these [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty AAs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The way you are responding to my post and your suggestions seem as if you are a MT, then yes the lines you went down are probably a little better, but we aren't as good of tanks as guardians in the aspect of taking damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never said the regen line would help when tanking epic mobs, grats.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You obviously haven't taken note of how short your AE range has gone since the nerf when EoF went live. In a multimob encounter the mobs can get spread out but all still be facing the tank. Your AEs will not hit some of the mobs, but with the ultimate you will definately hit every mob within range of the tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once again, you have to be tanking for Weapon Aegis to be useful... You have to be tanking. In the 30 seconds that Weapon Aegis is up, you have 3 counterattacks. If you aren't tanking you just wasting an auto attack hit that was probably equivilent to the damage you would of gotten with 1-2 maybe even all 3 procs from Weapon Aegis. Grats</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That random luck 4k hit was not random luck when used in conjunction with juggernaut, open wounds, destruction, demolish, stunning howl, disfigure, bloodbath. That's a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] ton of dps. With a 50-75% to critical hit. Many do not realize that a critical disfigure is going to end up around 2k damage <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've spent 43aa so far in the Eof tree. I think I will finish out with 5 in violent pledge and maybe a few in the trigger line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the end, I love my class. I can top parses ( or get close to it). I can tank trash and adds on named fights, or in the trivial zones I can tank it all (labs, lyceum, dt blah blah). I can easily switch from offensive to defensive and save the raid from a wipe. The best part is I can do my job and dps at the same time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>Message Edited by Xandax1 on 12-29-2006 01:07 PM

Bremer

12-30-2006, 04:37 AM

Guardians have no magical "take half the damage"-buff as you seem to think. If you can't tank epic nameds you are doing something wrong.Who cares if you have to be hit do to damage with Weapon Aegis, it's our job to be hit. Touger EoF still do debuffed some nice damage, so more mitigation can help and there is so much useless stuff in the tree that no point spend on more mitigation is wasted.And where was there a range nerf? It was 5m before EoF and it is still 5m range.

Xandax1

12-30-2006, 03:22 PM

<DIV>I can tank epic named no [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] problem, I [Removed for Content] on labs and lyceum and dt named, but I'd like to see you do better than a guardian on matron or chel'drak or mayong mistmoore for that matter~</DIV> <DIV> If you are being hit by a mob on every pull and your aren't the main tank then something is wrong, else weapon aegis is a worthless ability. Mitigation is pointless now, avoidance is the key to excel your tanking abilities... unless your under like 5k mit then you aren't going to see anything much from mit buffs. Upgrading gear because it has more mit is always going to help but its always going to be very minimal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take half the damage, more like Tower of Stone on top of some great utility to hold aggro and reduce aggro and what not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Every class had their AE range nerfed when EoF landed... If you haven't noticed a nerf in AE range then you obviously have not played your class to the full extent of which it can be played... good day sir</DIV>

kal-l

12-30-2006, 07:17 PM

This post and the responses to it are exactly why SoE is never going to seriously look at revamping the berserker achievement tree. The OP is too defensive of his view and Xandax seems to like attacking him. Saying things to each other like "you don't know your class" or "you obviously neeed to play more" are really not helpful at all. How about a more objective look instead of tearing into each other guys? If someone has a good reason that an achievement ability works (even if you don't agree) then good for them. What we should be looking for is things that don't work for anyone and trying to get those changed. This thread has become far too hostile to be taken seriously which is too bad because it had promise.Message Edited by kal-l on 12-30-2006 06:17 AM

Legiax

12-30-2006, 07:33 PM

It had no promise at all. The OP was WAY off the mark and it invited a ton of replies that were hostile.

aias

12-31-2006, 12:22 AM

<DIV>The OP was not WAY off the mark. He posted his comments about the EoF achievement points. A self-proclaimed l33t zerker determined he didn't know how to play his class.</DIV>

Dimgl

12-31-2006, 01:00 AM

Not to be overly negative but I more agree with the critics than the OP here. Calling Cyclones such a terrible ability is so far off the mark that I chose to avoid this post for what feels like weeks now.Taking taunt resistance down from say 12% to 2% makes being resisted drop from something that happens every other fight to something that happens once in a blue moon. We're talking dropping taunt resistance from one in eight taunts to one in FIFTY. Cyclones is easily the most powerful ability Berserkers can get from EOF if you're a tank, it is far from how bad the OP describes it. The fact that he calls this the WORST ability of all EOF achievements is so mind-shatteringly incorrect from my perspective. Berserkers cement our place as being one of the most reliable tanks, and also in being the best or near best "snap aggro" tank with abilities like this. Granted, the 5m range boost isn't always helpful, and while all in all it isn't necessarily a tremendously awesome ability to start with (when compared to say, SK's Reaver,) it is still the absolute best investment on the entire tree for a tanking zerker in my opinion.I've had a lot of requests for it, but maybe I should finally get around to writing a Berserker class achievement FAQ. Unfortunately it is going to have a lot of bad news. Our achievements don't add very much, especially when compared to others.<div></div>

Xandax1

12-31-2006, 06:38 AM

I wouldn't have been so inclined to post and "attack" the OP if he hadn't been so wrong. He doesn't even recognize that AE ranges were nerfed... Now obviously if you going for full 100% tanking the regen line is trash, and other than the first skill in Debilitation and quite possibly a change to Gut roar that line is trash as well. The final in cyclone line is awesome. And the only good thing I could see from the final in Trigger line is to be able to hit Juggernaut whenever you wanted. When I originally looked at our EoF tree I thought we got owned so hard, after spending 45 points I don't think we are that bad off. Whether your DPS/Off tank speced, MT specced, or dps/utility specced...We don't have anything amazing, but nearly anyway you spend your points you continue to round out your character. The End.

Bremer

01-01-2007, 12:40 AM

I read no dev post that AE range was nerfed, the description is the same and I still hit everything I want to hit with 5m range, so why should I assume that AE range is nerfed? 5m more is just a random luck chance to hit a distant positioned mob, nothing worth spending points.My taunts say they are 40 % harder to ressist, where do you get your numbers that this reduces ressist rate von from 12 to 2 %?Comparing this to eg 10 % double attack and 50 % reduced riposte damage Guardians get, how is supposed to be a great tanking AA?<div></div>

Xandax1

01-01-2007, 12:50 AM

You just have to know that somethings are nerfed without devs saying anything about them. This past LU30, a certain power leveling tactic was nerfed without any notes about it.

Dimgl

01-01-2007, 01:11 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Bremer wrote:My taunts say they are 40 % harder to ressist, where do you get your numbers that this reduces ressist rate von from 12 to 2 %?<div></div><hr></blockquote>It's really quite simple. Enemies have a base chance to resist spell type abilities that is determined by a few factors:- Level of enemy vs you: There is a penalty and they are less likely to resist if you are higher level, and there is a bonus and they are more likely to resist you if they are higher level than you.- Tier of enemy, solo mobs are less likely to resist than heroics, and epics of increasing strength are more and more difficult to land spells on.- Any special modifiers that make them resistant to taunts, such as having high mental resist (for us warriors) or disease resist for shadowknights, etc.- All enemies have a small innate resist rate, typically determined by mob type, just as all player races have different innate resists and innate dodge chances.- Finally, your skill in aggression also now modifies taunt resists.Now, the numbers I'm about to use aren't by any means perfectly correct, I am simply using them to demonstrate the concept.A level 75 epic x4 mob for example may receive a 5% per level bonus to resist rate, and then an additional 10% per epic x#, and a 5% base innate resist.5*5% = 25% from level bonus.4*10% = 40% from epic bonus.1*5% = 5% innate resist rate.Total resist bonus = 70%.So let's say you have low level taunts with no resistability bonus, you end up getting resisted 70% of the time. Seven out of ten of your taunts bounce off uselessly.You end up having 70% resist rate - 0% reduced resistability = 70% resist rate.Now let's imagine if you had M1 and M2 taunts, with a 40% reduction in resists, and had maybe +50 aggression, which we'll say reduces another 10% taunt chance.70% resist rate - 50% resist reduction = 20% total taunt resist rate.This still isn't great, but against a level 75 epic x4 this is a very realistic resist rate. Now 1 in 5 taunts are resisted.Let's add cyclones, and now you have 70% - 60% and you end up at 10%. You've cut your resists in half, 1 in 10.It's honestly very straightforward and I can't imagine spelling it out any more plainly. The 12% to 2% was to demonstrate the concept on how much Cyclones helps, and as someone with the ability I can definitely vouch for how much of a difference it made in resist rate with enemies that are higher level than me, and it also made a big difference in raid tanking. Where before I had 3-4 taunts bounce off some raid bosses on pulls (which endangered my healers) I now very, very rarely get resisted with Cyclones and M1/M2 taunts.</div>

fenixilius

01-01-2007, 09:22 PM

<DIV>The taunt resistability decrease is nice, but the increased aoe range....ouch. For control situations it can be a killer, not to mention it can grab aggro from rooms around you now. Also what the hell does increased aoe and decreased taunt resistance have in common....nothing!</DIV> <DIV>It was a last attempt to make a bad ability good, too bad they didnt do it thoroughout the tree. I would rather have joined traits that make no sense than useless ones.</DIV>

aias

01-02-2007, 12:55 AM

<DIV>It does seem like the end result in cyclone was a last minute change. I don't recall the 10% decrease in taunt resist in beta. Regardless, I think end abilities should be something unique and different like Gut Roar. A decrease in taunt resists or increase in ae range would be more appropriate within the tree instead.</DIV>

Nembutal

01-03-2007, 12:59 AM

Put me in with the group of peeps saying lumping increased AE range and taunt resist rates on the same AA was stupid... You know what would be nice... inherent resist rate changes... and a toggleable AE radius button... that would pwn. I also think most the stuff like Chaos line timer changes were too minimal to make it worth the points... and that unyielding will was dumb. I like the stuns/stifles though... while more useless on raids it's great for duals or small groups killing mage or priest mobs. I like the DPS increase on AE's also... but really I would have prefered something more tank/aggro/buff related. Having 3 AA points max on the Group Zerk proc buff ticked me off.... They should up that to 5. The Group str buff AA... it's missing... can't seem to find it... I'm SURE SOE knew that was one of the reasons a zerker is kept around in a scout group on raids right? RIGHT?!?!? :smileytongue: Seriously... should drop like the Unyielding will and add group STR buff. Another two that would have been nice are 1.) 2nd Rescue... or shortened rescue timer. 2.) Increase to our out-of-encounter taunt in some fashion... I don't care if it is the value of the thing, the resist rates on it, or the recycle timer... this is a KEY to what a beserker is... and it didn't show up. (Insolent Gibe) I am still really upset with the AA's I have been forced to take in EoF... I am at 74 I think now... and I look at it as more like 8 AAs and then a bunch of useless junk... There is nothing I look at and say "wow"... I have looked at most other trees and have seen things that would really appeal to the players of those toons... but for us... very little. Best thing we go was the 3 points in group zerk proc... and it still seems like I proc less than when I had none of those AA's pre-EoF. 2nd best one being Violent Pledge I think it is... the attack + taunt with the fist Icon. Spending 5 AA's to shave off 12% of a timer or whatever pathetic amount it mathmatically works out to be is sick.. and wrong.... if you spend 5 AA's to reduce a timer it should be chopped 33% or more. Chaos buff having a shorter timer was the wrong way to go... should have increased the duration... I don't hit this one as often as I should already because as it casts I can FEEL my aggro level dropping... I'm not doing anything DPS or taunt wise... I'm just STANDING THERE. Last thing I need is to waste more time pressing this per fight... make it last 33% longer and I am 10x more likely to drop points on it rather than having me push it 33% more often... I know SOE probably feels it's too late to be making changes to our tree... but I think they are wrong... I think ours sucked so bad that any positive change would be welcomed with open arms.

infernus006

02-04-2007, 10:48 PM

I'm sorry for flaming but a lot of you guys are just nothing but a bunch of pansy whiners. Many of the options on our EoF tree are quite useful IMO. Lets talk about the HP regen for a sec...I'm sick of people saying it's totally useless because it's not. I wish they would raise the cap on it but it's still nice having your regen over 200 points self-buffed. That's basically a 2k heal every 60 seconds, which is nothing to scoff at. I have a Guardian alt that basically has 0 hp regen and I really notice it when I play him. Maybe it doesn't do that much good in raids but let me tell you it is very nice thing to have while solo and small groups. Believe it or not, some of us actually do things in the game other than raid all the time. I find the upgrades to our cheat death spells very useful as well. I have them both and I find it very nice to not get killed most of the time after using UW and it's also nice having 500 seconds chopped off the retimer of VoM. But hey, that's just me. Now lets talk about the Debilitation line. Some people think our debuffs are crap, well they are wrong. With the AA's for them maxed out I can keep a mob debuffed 99% of the time for -24 haste and melee skills. This is a very useful thing against single mobs and makes a mostly aoe-oriented class more powerful against them, incuding epics. Debuffs are also helpful in generating aggro, probably even moreso than straight damage IMO. So yeah, it doesn't make us into an uber debuffing class by any means but I will tell you that it does help us a lot to have these debuffs that we do get as a tank. So as you can see, these two lines I am pretty happy with. I can see the Cyclone line being pretty useful as well, especially the end ability, although I'm not getting it myself because I won't have enough points. I'm oftentimes used as support/DPS in raids other than MT, so I do notice the annoyance of having my AoE's out of range a lot on the groups of large-sized mobs that get too spaced out for my AoE's to hit them all. That extra 5m would make a huge difference in that if I bothered to get it and they even tacked on a 10% reduction for taunt resistability to that also, so you really can't complain about it IMO. Lastly the Bulking tree, which is admittedly my least-favorite tree, however I do think it's worth it to put 3 points into the self-berserk buff so you can get to the Wall upgrade and increase it's duration for tanking if you can spare the points for it. That tree also a good option for all you Juggernaut lovers out there and upgrading the group berserk buff can help to make you more useful in raids as a melee-dps. But yeah, the end ability is pretty junky, I don't understand why they made it sub-par to the berserk buffs we already have, IMO it should have been made better than them. So yeah things are not perfect, they never are, and yeah things could be better. I agree that the end ability in the Preserverance line needs to be changed badly, but other than that our options are pretty decent as I see it. The Gutroar ability is not only very unique but can also be very helpful when tanking hordes of mobs, like when you get a load of adds. Also, since I have a Guardian alt I can say that I have looked at their tree and didn't think it was any better than what we got.<div></div>