The key to happiness as a low level Berserker...

[DarumaRanger]

<div></div><div><p>Hello, all,</p><p> This is meant as a tongue in cheek, humorous post... so please don’t blast the bajeezus out of me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><span>  </span>Though there is an element of truth as well.</p><p>I’ve discovered the key to being happy with your lv 10 or lower Berserker...</p><p>Do not... under ANY circumstances... unless someone puts a gun to your head... do not dare to roll a Bruiser and then try playing them one after the other.</p><p>I can GUARANTEE you that you’ll be absolutely miserable and frustrated playing your Berserker <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I’ve got both, rolled after LU19 went live, and both are only kitted out in their IoR quest/dropped gear/items... so essentially they’re on a level playing field.</p><p>I don’t know what it is... maybe the much maligned “avoidance” vs “mitigation” is the cause... but I can without a doubt assure you that at levels 10 and below, in IoR type gear, meaning not twinked, Avoidance is SOOOOOOOOOOOO much better than the Mitigation of Plate.</p><p>My Berserker takes tons... and I mean TONS more damage than my Bruiser.<span>  </span>We won’t even get into the self heal that the Bruiser gets... he rarely needs it so far.<span>  </span>My Berserker just gets his butt kicked left right and center.</p><p>Even blue one down arrow mobs quite often take him into the yellow on his HP bar, and on occasion, albeit rarely, take him into the orange.</p><p>Never, not once... not a single solitary time did a blue one down arrow EVER take my Bruiser into the yellow HP range... heck more often than not even white one down arrows don’t do that.</p><p>What’s the deal?<span>  </span>Anyone know?<span>  </span>I’ve always read the laments of “Avoidance” tanks and how they feel they suck compared to “Mitigation” tanks.<span>  </span>Now I’m not going to say that’s not true as I don’t know... but I WILL say it is not true for levels 10 and below.</p><p>I look at the numbers for Avoidance and Mitigation on both characters and the final numbers based on what is avoided and what is mitigated SHOULD come out about the same... but no way no how is that true in the sub level 10 range.</p><p>It’s been really frustrating because my Bruiser is lv 12 now and my Berserker is just lv 10 because I can’t deal with the butt whooping and downtime he’s taking compared to my Bruiser... but I WANT to play my Berserker too <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Does it ever get better?<span>  </span>Or will I find my Bruiser always less frustrating to play then my Berserker?</p><p>Any thoughts on why the Berserker is getting beat up so badly compared to the Bruiser?</p><p>I was thinking that maybe it’s because the Bruiser deals more damage and kills faster... but it seems that the Berserker is taking heavy damage pretty early in the fight... but that could be my imagination <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>As I go higher in levels will the avoidance of the Bruiser peter out and the mitigation of the Berserker get better?</p><p>Thanks all for any insight and help on this.</p><p>Oh... and sure some might say kit out the Berserker better as I am able... but again... if they’re both kitted out in equal gear... wouldn’t my Bruiser continue to be better?</p><p>It’s not just that he’s better... that’s not the issue... it’s that he seems SOOOOOOOOOO much better... if that makes sense?</p><p>Take care.</p><p>Yours in Friendship, Brotherhood, and Honor,</p><p>Fayloth, Berserker of FreeportDontar, Bruiser of Freeport.</p></div>

[Davish_Darkwolf]

Ask yourself one question, do you want to play a Berserker? Or a Bruiser?At level 10 you will have no idea how the class behaves in later levels, only at levels 30+ you start seeing the Zerker cominginto life.I wouldnt change my Zerker for any other class, because from the beginning, i wanted to play one.But you seem to be stuck in the "best class" idea. Well, news flash, there is no best class in this game, its constantlybeing balanced and the class rulling today may be the class nerfed tomorrow. What is "best" anyway in this type of games?Speaking from my experience, versatility is my middle name. I can tank very well, DPS very well and have great  AOE melee abilities.Dont go after what is "best", but go after what you like the most.

[DarumaRanger]

<div></div><p>No, no, no... I'm not by any means into the "best class."</p><p>As a matter of fact I clearly state that I don't care that the Bruiser is performing better... indicating that I don't care which class is best... I said it's frustrating that he performs SOOOOOOO much better.</p><p>The driving force in my frustration is that I like to PLAY... ACTION... my Berserker had SIGNIFICANTLY more downtime than my Bruiser... so I kept gravitating towards my Bruiser... not 'cause he was better or more uber... but because he spent more time "in the action" and not standing around waiting for HP to regen to a level I felt comfortable engaging a new target.</p><p>Nor is it a matter of which I want to play... I want to play BOTH.  Conceptually both appeal to me for different reasons:</p><p>The plate wearing, dual axe wielding, death dealer and the light armor wearing, no weapon using, (well I use those hand wrap things), depend on my agility to keep me alive, hand to hand fighting death dealer.</p><p>I'm a concept/RP type player and by no means a power gamer... with only one hour a night, (6 to 8 hours a week), to play... I CAN'T be a powergamer, LOL <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I also said the post is meant tongue and cheek and felt that I made it rather clear that the higher end levels are different and that I was SPECIFICALLY speaking to the sub level 10 game.</p><p>Thanks though for your reply.</p><p>Yours in Friendship, Brotherhood, and Honor,</p><p>Fayloth, Kerran Berserker of Freeport</p><p>Dontar, Barbarian Bruiser of Freeport</p>

[Davish_Darkwolf]

Well Daruma, then i understood you wrong and for that i appologize.Like you said, you have 2 types of classes, the heavy armored warrior and the light armor evader.I always tend to prefer heavy armored classes with a full choice of weapons. The Berserker brought 2 things to me, a heavy armored Warrior but with more offensive skills than usual (not the standard all-defense tank).You will see the Berserker shine after level 30 and like i said, as you go up in level, the more deadly the Zerker becomes. Zerkers can be AOE killing machines when their tools are available, it's not very common to see 4-5  enemies falling in a matter of seconds in this type of games (using melee skills at least).But yes, their downtime is longer than some other classes, Zerkers are not the best solo class, but they sure can stand on their own alone or in groups.Hope that helps <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[infernus006]

I rolled myself a new Zerker the other night just to try out the new evil island and new class/racial quests and such.  I'm actually having a lot of fun with it too.  I don't really see what your problem is.  Although I have never played a Bruiser.  And to be honest I probably never will.  Nothing about it really appeals to me.  Although I did hear some lowbie SK griping about the same thing, that his Bruiser was so much better than his SK at level 7.  Obviously the problem is not with our class, the problem is that the Bruiser is overpowered.  That's not actually news though.  On the other hand, everyone should know that while the Bruiser is the best soloer in the game but they are not that desired in groups.  And don't forget that 99% of the island is solo content.<div></div>

[DarumaRanger]

<div></div><p>It does help... and I appreciate it.</p><p>I'm curious though... as someone who knows about the high end game... do you have take on WHY, when equally kitted out, my Bruiser takes SOOOOOO much less damage than my Berserker at this low level?  Fighting the same things too by the way.</p><p>I ask, and mention the high end game, because I'd always read on these boards that avoidance/defense is much less effective than mitigation, and it's been a long going lament of the Monk/Bruiser community that they don't tank as well as the plate classes due to avoidance not being as effective as mitigation.  NOTE for anyone reading this... *I* am not saying this is true or not... I'm saying I've read these posts from others... I've also read a plethora of posts indicating that Monks/Bruisers tank just fine... but I still "hear" that for raid type mobs you want the heavy plate wearing tanks.</p><p>So, any thoughts as to why at the sub lv 10 game my Bruiser just takes virtually NO damage compared to my Berserker?  I am asking for no other reason than idle curiosity and I'm always interested in game mechanics.</p><p>My guess is, that for whatever reason, Avoidance is simply better at lower levels than mitigation is... why though I have no idea.</p><p>Take care, and thanks again for the insight.</p><p>Yours in Friendship, Brotherhood, and Honor,</p><p>Fayloth, Kerran Berserker of Freeport</p><p>Dontar, Barbarian Bruiser of Freeport</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[DarumaRanger]

<div></div><p><chuckle> Yes, I am very happy with my Berserker too... until I play him right after or before my Bruiser, LOL... hence my title... The key to happiness as a low level Berserker...</p><p>Don't roll up a Bruiser <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Is the Bruiser overpowered?  Maybe... certainly seems out of whack in the sub lv 10 game.  <shrugs> I couldn't care less about that as long as I can fight solo content... I just wanted a bare handed, bare chested fighting thug to go along with my plate wearing dual axe wielding blender of death <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Take care.</p><p>Yours in Friendship, Brotherhood, and Honor,</p><p>Fayloth, Kerran Berserker of Freeport</p><p>Dontar, Barbarian Bruiser of Freeport </p>

[infernus006]

Check what % your mitigation and avoidance is vs the % of your Bruiser's mitigation and avoidance.  That might give you a clue.At level 60 I think most Bruisers are expected to have about 65-70% avoidance.  I have no idea what their mitigation is supposed to be though.  My level 60 Zerker has 46% avoidance and 53% mitigation (with def stance on).  Plus we get 2 extra mitigation buffs that allow us to buff our mitigation to over 70% for 30 seconds (assuming you have cobalt armor at least).<div></div>

[Davish_Darkwolf]

Well at lower levels the armor quality/mitigation is not as good as high-end armor. A heavy plated class at higher levels can take a serious beating before going down, due to that high mitigation rate.Also, at later levels, they gain specific defense stances and skills that upgrade that same mitigation, at the cost of offense, using shields can help a lot too, specially if youre the main tank, so groups tend to prefer the "higher mitigation-defense-stamina" tank.As a Bruiser, you see your avoidance working earlier than as the defense of a Zerker for instance. At later levels it changes and bruisers tend more to the DPS side and Zerkers/Guardians/Paladins to the tank side.You can still tank very effectively as a Bruiser or Monk, but groups tend to prefer this classes as off-tanking DPS machines, since the defense strong points are focused on the heavy-plate wearers (specially  the guardian).At higher levels, you will fall faster than a Guardian/Zerker when tanking, but you probably will take the mobs down faster (except on AOE damage, Zerkers rule on that).Healers will have to spend more mana on you than on a Guardian, hence the preference, specially at raid encounters where mobs come one after the other and that precious mana is very valuable.

[infernus006]

That's why I said to compare his lowbie Zerker's mitigation and avoidance percentages to his lowbie Bruiser's.  I was just posting my info to give him an idea of what it is like at the higher levels compared to whatever he has now.<div></div>

[lstead]

I think you're seeing an advantage to bruiser when soloing. I think you'd see a similar advantage to 'zerker when you're tanking for a group. Plus people's opinions affect your experience: even though bruisers tank fine, you'd have lots of people telling you they needed a "real tank."<div></div>

[uux]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>DarumaRanger wrote:<div></div><p>It does help... and I appreciate it.</p><p>I'm curious though... as someone who knows about the high end game... do you have take on WHY, when equally kitted out, my Bruiser takes SOOOOOO much less damage than my Berserker at this low level?  Fighting the same things too by the way.</p><hr></blockquote>It is avoidance and mitigation.  I also ran a berserker and a bruiser through the new low level content.  The bruiser easily hits 50% avoidance while the berserker ranges from 0-20% (no shield equipped).  Mitigation is highly dependent on your gear, and at that level you do not get much to work with.  With my newbie gear just off the Isle at level 8, I had 100 mitigation on the zerker (didn't pay attention to it on the bruiser, it didn't seem to be a problem).  I also noticed the difference in playability between the bruiser and berserker.  With the bruiser,  I constantly handled yellow conned mobs with no problem.  Those were off limit or extremely exhausting to my zerker.  They just weren't worth the downtime.  The first thing you should do when you get off the isle is get better gear.  You'll notice a huge difference.  I got some trash drops off orcs in the Commonlands, and completed the quests in the Ruins.  With the new gear, I didn't notice much difference from the bruiser.  If you're Qeynos based, you can probably get equivalent stuff from Antonica and the Caves.  At level 10, even the common handcrafted stuff is way better than the stuff off of the Isle.  When you get into your low 20's, you won't feel so gimped anymore.  You'll have another step up in gear available (armor quests, or crafted) and additional abilities (better stances, debuffs, hp regen, better mitigation buffs, and more attacks).</span></div>

[DarumaRanger]

<div></div><p>Thank you all for the responses, and to you Uux for validating my perceptions based on your own experience.</p><p>I guess the issue is simply that while both, (all classes), are gear dependent... the better the gear the better the character peformance, (assuming a competent player on the other side of the monitor), while both classes are gear dependent... the Berserker may be MORE gear dependent than the Bruiser... makes sense.</p><p>I'll try kitting him out in some better stuff... I'm almost ashamed to say that I "shelved" him after several times going into the yellow HP range on blue down arrow mobs and dying every time to a regular even con mob... when, as you experienced, my Bruiser eats yellow cons for breakfast with almost no break in between them.</p><p>Ok... <takes a deep breath>... we'll give Fayloth another shot at life and spend a bit of cash to kit him out better.</p><p>Thanks again all for the insight.</p><p>Take care.</p><p>Yours in Friendship, Brotherhood, and Honor,</p><p>Fayloth, Kerran Berserker of Freeport</p><p>Dontar, Barbarian Bruiser of Freeport</p>

[uux]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>DarumaRanger wrote:<div></div><p>Thank you all for the responses, and to you Uux for validating my perceptions based on your own experience.</p><p>I guess the issue is simply that while both, (all classes), are gear dependent... the better the gear the better the character peformance, (assuming a competent player on the other side of the monitor), while both classes are gear dependent... the Berserker may be MORE gear dependent than the Bruiser... makes sense.</p><hr></blockquote>It does make a bit of sense when you consider bruisers are not able to equip plate,  chain armor, or shields.  If they're supposed to have the same capability to tank,  then they had to be given something naturally.  They'll need as much mitigation as they can get as well in the long run.I also made the mistake of leveling faster than my Defense and Parry skill were updating.  I ran around the Sinking Sands, Pillar of Flames, Maj'Dul, and  a few other places for the discovery xp at level 9.  By the time I was done, I was level 12 and most skills were 15 below what they should have been.  I could barely hit even con'd mobs, and my avoidance was 0% even in the defensive stance.  Not a good idea.</span></div>

[Untruth]

<div></div><div></div><p>Generally, the reason why avoidance is so powerful on the isle, is because none of the mobs there with the exception of the bird and slime, have any arrow modifiers, and rarely have more than a one level advantage on you if you are following the quest chain right. From what i find, later on when mobs are mostly triple arrows, they can almost practically nullify the avoidance factor, unless the monk/bruiser is buffed to the gills with defense/parry buffs.</p><p>What i find is a very annoying flaw in berserkers is that they don't get there definitive abilities at a lower tier, some of them only appear in the teens, and past there. At level 19, berserkers get their first group regeneration buff, at 21, they get a self reactive regeneration buff that stacks with their previous. With the adept III versions of both, my berserker at 22 can regenerate somewhere around 40 health every tick, which should be... 6 seconds? Thats enough to completely nullify the damage on most melee mobs, or it'll even hold up quite well against single/double arrows if the 30 second mitigation buffs are available(Which are unfortunately also not granted on the isle). With a shield, the adept Is of my defensive stance and two buffs, i am sitting around 66% mitigation with 38% avoidance, with just normal gear bought off the broker, not even legendary. Its almost amusing to walk into a group of heroic blue with no arrows, throw on defensive buffs, and watch as i regenerate faster than they do damage.</p><p>Another very valuable skill that berserkers seem to be missing is a tiered up offensive stance. Their first stance, uproar is at level 2 i believe, and most skills are generally accepted to be on a +14 level cycle (eg. the next one for uproar should be at level 16), but as a berserker you would actually have to wait until 22 before you recieved it. While the proc has a ludicrously low chance of firing off, and probably won't make a difference anyways, this means that as a berserker, you are also lacking the offense component as well. Without the bonus to slash/crush/pierce, I found that i'd miss on 4/5 of my combat arts. It is almost depressing soloing before that point, since berserkers have such poor accuracy without a bonus to weapon skills, but i'm probably just used to the luxury of scouts, their attack skill buff HO, and an adept III offensive stance.</p><p>Message Edited by Untruth on <span class="date_text">02-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:12 PM</span></p>

[firewolf]

The trick to perform better at lower level especially on IoR is crafting. After LU19, there are new plate and weapon recipes. Just spend some time haversting the nodes. Go into the crafting instance and make yourself a new set of armour, shield, rings and weapons. These crafted armour has much better  mitigation and stats than the starter armour you get automatically. Even the IoR quested armour is of lesser quality. This should push your berserker' s mitigation much higher than your bruiser. The crafted weapons also hits harder. By level 6, I've replaced all the quested armour with the crafted armour. Earned everything on the IoR. Probably would have upgraded all the CA if the recipe is available. After you leave IoR it is even easier to get access to better gear and weapon through broker. With better gear and upgrade combat art (app 4), you'll do much better. You could also get potions to buff your mitigation, str and sta up. As berserker, you are very dependent on gear. Your solo life will get easier once you get in combat hp regen, haste, str, offensive stance and aoe CA.<div></div>

[Rayvne2]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>firewolf wrote:The trick to perform better at lower level especially on IoR is crafting. After LU19, there are new plate and weapon recipes. Just spend some time haversting the nodes. Go into the crafting instance and make yourself a new set of armour, shield, rings and weapons. These crafted armour has much better  mitigation and stats than the starter armour you get automatically. Even the IoR quested armour is of lesser quality. This should push your berserker' s mitigation much higher than your bruiser. The crafted weapons also hits harder. By level 6, I've replaced all the quested armour with the crafted armour. Earned everything on the IoR. Probably would have upgraded all the CA if the recipe is available. After you leave IoR it is even easier to get access to better gear and weapon through broker. With better gear and upgrade combat art (app 4), you'll do much better. You could also get potions to buff your mitigation, str and sta up. As berserker, you are very dependent on gear. Your solo life will get easier once you get in combat hp regen, haste, str, offensive stance and aoe CA.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Exactly.  I just started a Bezerker last night in order to box with a druid (who wasn't on the island obviously) and I noticed a massive difference to how easy the newbie island was before and after I spent a little time crafting the armour and shield.  Once I did that the island content was really really easy, before that it was kicking me around a bit.  When I had to do the totem destroying part I just trained the area around while doing it with usually 10 goblins chasing me and I never hit yellow health.  A guardian, the same level 6, tried to do it the same way without the crafted gear and got his [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] kicked badly.</p><p>It is definately worth the time to make this stuff and it helps you level your tradeskills quickly as well.  This gear will definately last you into T2 without costing you anything.  I just wish they had a craftable BP.</p><p>As a note, I wish they would take the leaded loam harvests out of the stones because they are completely useless on the island and make harvesting the tin take a lot longer.  I think you need about 30 tin to make all the armor, the 2 rings, the earring, the shield, and a weapon.  All the other harvests are pretty easy to come by.</p>