DPS

[Wildfury77]

I'm a swashie = melee dpsHow come so many of the threads on the guardian forums moan about guards "not doing enough dps". Of all the scouts and fighters you should be doing the least i would have thought - being bold and strong is your niche? I like a guard in my group cos they keep me safe and hold agro very well. As the swashie i then provide the dps and it works nicely.Am i being naive? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Sir_Halbarad]

We aren't comparing ourselves to Swashbuckler, Rogue or Scout dps, don't worry <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />We are just tired that other fighters do 20 (regularly)-50% (situationally)-100% (rare?) more damage while we tank maybe 1% better.That combined with the fact that there is almost no use/need/desire for a Guardian when he isn't tanking and the lack of fun of the class makes the Guards sad since LU13.The Raid Tank Guards are fine and don't complain about that niche. But there are more Guards than Raid Tank Spots.<div></div>

[Wildfury77]

Not sure about just "1%" betterI took the stamina line on the AAs and play a swashie with Shield + 1 hander. I have higher HP than paladin and am chosen as tank (on occasion) above monk/bruiser or even paladin/SK if a couple of lvls lower without good kit - i'm still not THAT good a tank but have higher avoidance, reasonable mitigation and some taunts now. Would i ever take the place of zerker/guard.......maybe if hell froze over! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[chadawok]

<div>but we arnt compairing our tank/dps to a Rogue, what were saying is that a pally/SK can do resonable DPS, i'm a 60 guard, and i have dps of a lvl 10 wizard :S, weer as a pally could proberly do the same damage as a rogue (close enough), we dont want to be able to outdmg a scout, all we want is some type of soloing capabilities and some resonable dps in off stance</div>

[Terron]

Our soloing ability was terrible, mainly because our DPS was so low.We have little advantage in defense compared to other fighters (except possibly against orange and red cons - but we couldn't solo them), and whilst that was probably what we wanted most it was clear we were not going to get it back for the sake of 'equal' tanking.Our 'utility' is unusuable solo (and of little use at other times).Our strength of having the best taunts is also useless when soloing.Our fellow warriors - berserkers - could do ten times our DPS by playing to their strengths (AoE attacks).At one stage the only creatures I could fight solo and expect to beat were solo greens (and roadkill assasins), and some heroics, at leats 7 levels lower than me.Guardians who had full legendary equipment could do better though.Things have improved, partly through increases in my level (now 45), and partly through the changes in the last few updates.Now I can take on yellow cons with down arrows, which seems about right.My main alt is a swashie. During a forced break from building the spires she attacked some giants in TS, got some adds and ended up killing 6 giants in the one fight, including at least one heroic. Since the update she has been unable to kill a single heroic giant solo even starting from stealth and using giant master's strike. The fights were close though and she has just gained a level (to 33) so she probably could now.My guardian could beat level 25 ^^^ heroic giants at level 32 - but not the level 26 ones that would heal themselves.<div></div>

[Tyrion]

<div></div><div>pjackson, you'll find at 50 when you recieve Guardian Sphere, soloing will be easier, since that combat art Stone Skins 5 times, vastly reducing overal incoming damage. Blast is also extremely good as well. Soloing picks up a bit at 50, and quite frankly, if you go dual-wield, adept 3 your offensive stance (and all your other skills if possible), it's not so bad.</div><div> </div><div>But yes, I remember when Desperate Charge used to give us close to 50% haste at the cost of power per tick. That's before the combat revamp when stances didn't exist, and the few times when I was extra damage, it was quite handy. If they added a smaller haste to our stance, it would be nice.</div>

[Sirlutt]

i am actually pretty happy with my DPS right now .. specially SOLO .. soloing is far quicker and easier than my ranger.in groups i love the reactives warlocks put on us.. i pull 2 grops of 4 and each time they hit me i generate hate, and do damage.. its great.<div></div>

[Wabit]

<div>the thing that got me was that healers were out dpsing me as a tank (not just the crazy overpowered one either)...  but i like this expansion so far, we have become a playable class for something other than raid MT...  i just i had stoped playing DoF when i hit 60, what a total waist of loots...</div>

[Gungo]

<div>From what i been playing and reading lately. It seems guardians have gotten better at soloing and grouping in the balance to other fighters. As in brawler Dps took a decent hit with the proc changes and possibly zerker dps as well (although i havent heard anything, one of the few classes i don't play). Guards have also gotten a few skills to help wit thier DPS and soloability. The starter AA bind wounds has helped immensly soloing the 10% dps and faster recovery after combat with the new marqee 65 spell obliterate has become one of the guards most powerful atks which now adds a decent dps boost at higher lvls. Add in the new stamina regen proc rings and guards solo a ton better then they use to.</div><div> </div><div>So now that guards are doing more dps, soloing faster, and have new ways to recover hp in combat. while other fighters dps went down. I don't see the balance of guards vs other fighters to be apparent anymore. In other words i think guards are finally relatively balanced. They are capable soloers now, the best MT in raids, and do effecient grouping. Still looking at your skills i would tweak a spell or 2 but overall i think guards should not complain as much as they use too.</div><div> </div><div>Barring any specific spells i think fighters are fairly balanced, i think scouts are doing ok (after the proposed ranger fixes), i think healers all can do thier job relatively equal, and I think most mages classes are ok except the enchanters.  Enchanters seriously needs to get the devs attention they are by far the most messed up class in eq2 at the moment. The best thing that has happened to them is in KoS was thatmore mobs agro or are social making mezzing additional yellow or orange encounters that much more important.</div>

[Xile]

<div></div>I dont know how many parses u guys have ran but palys and guards are very very comparable on dps.  My rl best friend plays a paly lv70 and i have a lv 70 guard. We both are decked out in pretty much the same equipment and both have around the same number of master spells.  When we run parses he and i sit neck and neck every single time.  It all comes down to what do u like to do.  do u want to heal or do u want to protect?  I think what alot of people do not take into consideration is the buffs that u are given.  Grab up an inq and get em to put buffs only on the guard or only on the paly and watch what happens. its about a 100 dps increase at lv 70.  Guards should stop [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing.  If u dont like the idea of being a guardian then change classes.  Guards do exactly what they say they do. they guard your party.  Truth be told a zerker should prob be mt in raids and guard should be in the group to protect that tank.  We have so many good skills that people overlook.  My advice to you is to read your skills learn what they do and then you should be able to play the class like it was meant to be played.

[Drulak]

<div></div><p>Well i hope you are all correct,  I have re-instated my account and will play later to see if we have been fixed.   Crosses fingers.</p><p> </p><p>PS just to mention to guy above , i don;t think anyone really complained before about pally dps over ours - it was mainly brawler dps Plus , you are talking about grp dps which is irrelevant - most complaints were about solo dps ,  because if a guard has a grp he won't care too much about his dps.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Sirlutt]

<div></div>Its def got better.. dont expect it to be night and day though.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Sirlutt on <span class="date_text">03-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:27 AM</span></p>

[Terron]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tyrion wrote:<div></div><div>pjackson, you'll find at 50 when you recieve Guardian Sphere, soloing will be easier, since that combat art Stone Skins 5 times, vastly reducing overal incoming damage. Blast is also extremely good as well. Soloing picks up a bit at 50, and quite frankly, if you go dual-wield, adept 3 your offensive stance (and all your other skills if possible), it's not so bad.</div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>Level 40 helped soloing with getting Retaliate.I have been dual wielding in offensive stance for almost all soloing since LU15 (around level 2<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I started just after LU13.My offensive stances are my first choice for an adept 3, but finding the rares to upgrade is getting harder.I had almost given up adventuring with my guardian (level 45), but I am a lot happer with him now.</span>I still think that levels 28-39 could do with a bit of a boost.The only major problem left is the uselessness of our protective skills (intercede and the like).<div></div>

[Uumuuanu]

<div></div><p>Honestly I think there have been alot of slow and stealthy changes to guardians since LU13 that have helped resolve this problem.  At 66 right now, I put out decent DPS solo and when fully raid buffed I can come into the top 50% of the raid every time.  Now granted things like damage shields etc count toward that, but using the proper rotation of CAs, its not hard to be landing some big hits.  On one particular encounter,  I was 5th with a DPS over over 430 (about a 2 min encounter).  Granted all of my CAs are Adept3 or higher but to consistently put out that kind of damage isn't something we should be complaining about IMO.</p><p>Right now I have 3 CAs that can hit for 1k or higher and at least 6 that can hit for 500 or more (including the three 1k+), which is pretty nice, even though they are on 1 minute timers.  At lower levels DPS was an issue,  as you get into the 60+ range and into groups that can buff your STR (I cap out on most groups and all raids), you will see alot more damage coming your way.</p>