Blackguard.. where is my Guardian fun?

[Wasuna]

<div>Quote from Blackguard from the Rangers forum where they are discussing the LU20 ranger proc changes.</div><div> </div><div>"Thanks for putting together a thread for constructive Ranger feedback. <strong><em><u>We are paying close attention to ensure Rangers are fun and will make changes if necessary</u></em></strong>. I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out with handcrafted gear and App II spells at every 10 level range to check them out. I may not have a Ranger on Live, but I've played pretty much every class in some form so I have an idea of how they work. I'll be discussing my findings with Design afterwards. Of course, I'm not the only one looking at them closely--the mechanics team is as well.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Blackguard on <span class="date_text"><font color="#756b56">02-22-2006</font></span><span class="time_text">12:03 PM</span></p><p><font color="#999999">Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder"</font></p><p><font color="#999999"></font> </p><p>Where the heck is our Guardian fun? And why has it taken 6 months of SOE screwing around for you not to even discuss it with us?</p></div>

[Sirlutt]

I'll let ya know straight up that Guardians fun > Ranger Fun.my ranger is parked, my guardian is my new main.. soloing and group utility is much better on the guard.<div></div>

[Snikey]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div> </div><div>I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out with handcrafted gear and App II spells at every 10 level range to check them out.<hr></div></blockquote>LOLOL Try a guardian in that set up, you'll be lucky to solo 'solo' green cons.

[Wasuna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:I'll let ya know straight up that Guardians fun > Ranger Fun.my ranger is parked, my guardian is my new main.. soloing and group utility is much better on the guard.<div></div><hr></blockquote>You have got to be kidding? Rangers solo Poets palace at 60 and you say they are worse soloing than a Guardian? Guardians can tank but every fighter can. It's always healing and DPS that people are looking for. Tanks are a dime a dozen.

[Wasuna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Snikey wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div> </div><div>I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out with handcrafted gear and App II spells at every 10 level range to check them out.<hr></div></blockquote>LOLOL Try a guardian in that set up, you'll be lucky to solo 'solo' green cons.<hr></blockquote>Strongly agree!

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Wasuna wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:I'll let ya know straight up that Guardians fun > Ranger Fun.my ranger is parked, my guardian is my new main.. soloing and group utility is much better on the guard.<div></div><hr></blockquote>You have got to be kidding? Rangers solo Poets palace at 60 and you say they are worse soloing than a Guardian? Guardians can tank but every fighter can. It's always healing and DPS that people are looking for. Tanks are a dime a dozen.<hr></blockquote>I dare any 60 Ranger to solo poets palace post LU20 ..LU20 cut ranger DPS, and specifically their procs in half .. in fact it cut their procs by 70-80% .. they cant solo worth crap anymore     </span></div>

[Wasuna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:<div><span><blockquote> </blockquote>I dare any 60 Ranger to solo poets palace post LU20 ..LU20 cut ranger DPS, and specifically their procs in half .. in fact it cut their procs by 70-80% .. they cant solo worth crap anymore     </span></div><hr></blockquote><p>1. The fact you say Post LU20 implies that you agree that they did it Pre LU20. You can't possibly think that is accetpable can you? I hate nerfs becasue they are so negative but come on...</p><p>2. I want Blackgaurd to make Guardians fun, not nerf Rangers. That was the purpose of this post.</p>

[Geothe]

<div></div><p>no fun for j00!</p><p> </p>

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Wasuna wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:<div><span><blockquote> </blockquote>I dare any 60 Ranger to solo poets palace post LU20 ..LU20 cut ranger DPS, and specifically their procs in half .. in fact it cut their procs by 70-80% .. they cant solo worth crap anymore     </span></div><hr></blockquote><p>1. The fact you say Post LU20 implies that you agree that they did it Pre LU20. You can't possibly think that is accetpable can you? I hate nerfs becasue they are so negative but come on...</p><p>2. I want Blackgaurd to make Guardians fun, not nerf Rangers. That was the purpose of this post.</p><hr></blockquote>Guards are fun, thats the point.  I enjoy playing my Guard all the time.I think "fun" is all in the perspective .. go play a Ranger right now.. your Guard will seem like fun .. go play a Conj.. your guard will seem like not so much fun.Pre LU20 Rangers were too powerful.. you wont find a ranger who says otherwise.  Its not Guardians who got Rangers nerf'd.its Wizards .. Rangers have already been nerf'd ..and it was a HUGE class crippling nerf.</span></div>

[Wasuna]

<div></div>Guardians are only fun when you tank. That's the point. You can go moan about your loss of enjoyment playing your ranger on the ranger forum. I posted this quote from Blackguard asking why they didn't concider Guardian fun when they did LU13. Comparing your Rangers current state after just having his jimmies snipped off to a Guardians fun when your tanking isn't acceptable.

[Sirlutt]

yep and I told you your crazy .. my Guardian is alot of fun even when i am not tanking.  I've noticed since Lu20 that its much easier to solo with him, expeically with the starter AA.<div></div>

[mastersard]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Wasuna wrote:<div>Quote from Blackguard from the Rangers forum where they are discussing the LU20 ranger proc changes.</div><div> </div><div>"Thanks for putting together a thread for constructive Ranger feedback. <strong><em><u>We are paying close attention to ensure Rangers are fun and will make changes if necessary</u></em></strong>. I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out with handcrafted gear and App II spells at every 10 level range to check them out. I may not have a Ranger on Live, but I've played pretty much every class in some form so I have an idea of how they work. I'll be discussing my findings with Design afterwards. Of course, I'm not the only one looking at them closely--the mechanics team is as well.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Blackguard on <span class="date_text"><font color="#756b56">02-22-2006</font></span><span class="time_text">12:03 PM</span></p><p><font color="#999999">Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder"</font></p><p><font color="#999999"></font> </p><p>Where the heck is our Guardian fun? And why has it taken 6 months of SOE screwing around for you not to even discuss it with us?</p></div><hr></blockquote><p>This is sick.  Rangers are nerfed for 24 hours, and a Dev is "<strong><em><u>paying close attention to ensure Rangers are fun"</u></em></strong> ...  Where was the Dev the day after LU13?  The week after?  Month...?  And dont give me that "unsug hero" crap.</p><p>Yes Guardian soloing and grouping seem better after LU20.  We still have crap for utility, and poor DPS compared to our fighter brothers, and our tanking seems to be about equal to theirs.  Where's my motivatin to continue playing a Guardian?  Who in their right mind would pick Gaurdian from day 1?</p>

[Ladicav]

<div></div><p>Who cares.</p><p>Trying to find parallells between Rangers and Guardians is the most asinine topic I have read on these forums in some time. The two aren't even of the same archtype tree, and don't even share the same basic game role and you are all arguing heated semantics.</p><p>Seriously, get the f over it.</p>

[Salgo]

<div></div><p>Guys, why are we arguing amongst ourselves? It sounds to me like SOE has done another one of their EXTREME nerfing deals this time with the Ranger class. I know they were overpowered, they admit it themselves, but of course the devs go from one extreme to another and nerf another specialist class to kingdom come. If anything, I feel for yet another class that has been decimated by SOE's nerf cannon.</p><p>Now it is funny that BG posted pretty quickly on their board (too us about 2-3 months) but I thought I read that he was more of a PR guy then Dev. Let's see how long it takes them to correct the issue....that will be the real test.</p><p>As for SOE...please stop nerfing the bejesus out of classes...instead think about the movie "what about Bob?"...remember?? Baby steps with the decrease in dps...Baby steps with the decrease in proc...baby steps with the imbued rings which now are not worth the 2+ plat I shelled out for them, IMO. :smileyvery-happy: You get the idea.</p>

[Snikey]

<div></div><p>Thier procs were reduced by... 70%? Ok and I'm guessing.. lets say on the high side... 20% of thier DPS was from procs. So thats 70% of 20%.</p><p>So we are talking what 14% dps reduction? When the parse data was out before, they had that plus some on other tier 1 classes?</p>

[stelle]

well 50-60% damage from procs <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Sirlutt]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Snikey wrote:<div></div><p>Thier procs were reduced by... 70%? Ok and I'm guessing.. lets say on the high side... 20% of thier DPS was from procs. So thats 70% of 20%.</p><p>So we are talking what 14% dps reduction? When the parse data was out before, they had that plus some on other tier 1 classes?</p><hr></blockquote>50-60% of Ranger damage was from procs.  it got nerf'd 78% .. (with the math) .. now .. not I am not saying that something didnt need to be done.. because it did.. but this was way over the top.80% reduction of 60% of our damage is about a 50% damage reduction overall.  Proc chances were greatly reduced and we relied on procs for our damage.  I've got parses from before and after on the same kinds of mobs and I went from doing (on a giants run in pof, same level) 480 DPS on average over 10 minutes of fighting .. to 230 DPS on average in the same area over about the same amount of time.  its of interest to note that a 56 Guardian in the same group (2nd time) was doing 200 DPS .. a conj (him + pet) 525 .. and our pally tank 290 ...Edit : on another note ..its not fair for me to be posting this stuff in this forum, this post is about Guardians .. and I've made my Guardian my main character now and shelved my ranger .. this post is about fun and the fun in my Ranger went through the floor, the fun in my Guardian however seems to have risen and i like that.</span></div><p>Message Edited by Sirlutt on <span class="date_text">02-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:35 AM</span></p>

[Wasuna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:<div></div><div><span><blockquote>this post is about fun and the fun in my Ranger went through the floor, the fun in my Guardian however seems to have risen and i like that.</span></blockquote></div><p>Message Edited by Sirlutt on <span class="date_text">02-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:35 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Kind of. This post is really about why the heck Rangers got a same day response from Blackguard that specifically addressed the key to all classes. They have to be fun. Guardians were HAMMERED in LU13. Right or wrong we were. When we complained and said it was to much we were told we were Unsung Heros and crap like that. Where is Blackguard telling us it's important for Guardians to be fun? Where the heck is any Moderator? Guardians are forgotten and attention show to any other class is another slap to our face.

[Halofaxx]

<div></div>As bad as I hate to say it, seems all the DEV love has been going to the monk/bruiser side. But hey, look at it this way, Guardians are still fun to play even when solo'ing (or it is to me at least) and SoE cant really hurt us anymore. Only way we can go is up.

[Snikey]

<div></div>50-6-% of Rnager damage was from procs?? Then something was definately wrong to begin with. Stop flipping out you are getting looked at! Can't even say the last time guradian were looked at.

[Pry]

<div></div><p>I would like to say, that they day has come....in which I predicted 6 months ago....where another class gets nerfed, then switches to a Guardian and proclaims that it is "The best class eva!".   It seems SOE has done what they set out to do, and in turn the player has lost.  They have their new player base, and from the looks of it they aren't that smart (as I also predicted). </p><p>I guess I should be laughing, it is kind of funny in a sad, pathetic kind of way.  Good luck remaining players!  Perhaps when it's over, the Shadowbane players will help you through those tough times in trying to find a new game.  There's gotta be a support group somewhere for you, at least you will have that.</p><p>"For whom the bells toll, it tolls for thee"</p>

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Prynn wrote:<div></div><p>I would like to say, that they day has come....in which I predicted 6 months ago....where another class gets nerfed, then switches to a Guardian and proclaims that it is "The best class eva!".   It seems SOE has done what they set out to do, and in turn the player has lost.  They have their new player base, and from the looks of it they aren't that smart (as I also predicted). </p><p>I guess I should be laughing, it is kind of funny in a sad, pathetic kind of way.  Good luck remaining players!  Perhaps when it's over, the Shadowbane players will help you through those tough times in trying to find a new game.  There's gotta be a support group somewhere for you, at least you will have that.</p><p>"For whom the bells toll, it tolls for thee"</p><hr></blockquote>I was a guardian pre LU13 aswell.. i just choose to play him more now..and this will get ya .. Pre LU20 my Ranger was rediculously over powered and at times pretty boring to play.. plus the drops for ranger didnt do anything to raise his usefullness.. so i got my guard from 25 to 50 in about 2 weeks .. then LU20 hit and now I dont want to play the ranger because its swung the whole other end of the spectrum..not to mention i was sick of DPs and wanted to get back to tanking, my original char was a Zerker.</span></div>