Pet Tanking

[Kell]

<DIV> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>I regularly group with a conjurer, level 51, and recently we have started using the earth pet (adept3) as the group tank.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Does this sound crazy?<SPAN>  </SPAN>Well it isn’t.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The pet has several advantages over me.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>1) <STRONG>It holds agro better than me</STRONG>.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The earth pet can pull aggro off of me even after it is firmly established (pet buffs and taunts).<SPAN>  </SPAN>Short of rescue, the pet seems to be rock solid with aggro control!<SPAN>  </SPAN>He can hold aggro right from the start and even hold it with a warlock unloading.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I have seen the ranger we group with pull mobs off him, I think it was with Storm of Arrows Master II.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The taunt the pet has is AOE and he exhibits MUCH better aggro control over multi mob encounter than I do. I have MD Master 2, Protect Adept 3 and Deafen App 4……you know what I want?<SPAN>  </SPAN>His taunt!<SPAN>  </SPAN>How do I get that?</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>2) <STRONG>He can pull much more quickly and effectively</STRONG>.<SPAN>  </SPAN>His spell casting has a very long range and the speed with which he gains and holds aggro is sooo fast.<SPAN>  </SPAN>These two elements make him much more effective at chain pulling.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Man, I miss our distance pull!<SPAN>  </SPAN>The fact that the pet effectively has it makes me crazy!</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>3) <STRONG>His survivability is the same as mine!</STRONG><SPAN>  </SPAN>I could not believe this myself!<SPAN>  </SPAN>In a full group, buffed and single healer (although it is really two since the conjurer can heal the pet as well), he can tank yellow triple ups with no down time.<SPAN>  </SPAN>We pulled heroic ^^^ scorpions for hours last night and the pet never died.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I have full ebon (and a fabled item).<SPAN>  </SPAN>What the heck is going on?<SPAN>  </SPAN>The pet can tank as well as I can?<SPAN>  </SPAN>We chain pulled those mobs!<SPAN>  </SPAN>I busted my but to get full ebon and the fabled….at it makes no difference.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>The XP from this session clearly out paced what I can deliver.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The combination of the fast pulling and the fact that the pet held aggro so well right from the start of the fight, meant the DPS classes could just unload on the mob.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The scorpions died so fast it was crazy!</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>The group was having a great time….the xp was flying, and while this was going on I realized.....this was what I USED to tank like!....outstanding aggro control, distance pulls, and high survivability.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Now a pet beats me at 2 out of 3 and the third is a toss up.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Tomorrow we are going to try the Cyclops mobs in Pillar of Flames and see how the pet does against Orange heroic mobs.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Several days prior I had tried tanking these (when I was still the tank) with a single healer.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The results were interesting we might kill 10 of these with no issue and then one would hit me too hard and I would go down….it was not worth the risk/reward.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I hate to say it, but I really hope the pet gets one shot, or just can’t tank them with any efficiency.<SPAN>  </SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3><SPAN></SPAN>I will be happy to relay the results.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Hey, the good news is I got to play around with my offensive abilities…..here’s to looking at the back of the mob!</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>-Pet Buffer</FONT></P></DIV>

[Ifung]

<P><SPAN class=postbody1><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=#ffffff>Good post, I have had the same experience with dun tarantulas in the sinking sands and giants. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=postbody1><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=#ffffff>Here’s the story;</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=postbody1><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=#ffffff>I’m lvl47 and was doing fine as grp. tank. Especially I was enjoying using Rescue to pull off mobs from a lvl50 Assassin, even if he started the pull .. nice and a new experience!</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=postbody1><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=#ffffff>Ok, so here I am enjoying my newly return to glory, after some disappointment after the rewamp. <SPAN> </SPAN>Along comes this lvl48 conjure with his *beep* pet. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=postbody1><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=#ffffff>In the beginning we kept me as main tank, which worked fine. But then we lost one healer, so the conjurer suggested we would use the pet as tank. Given the new setup this was a reasonable suggestion, an I quickly backed down as MT. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=postbody1><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=#ffffff>This is where things got SAD big time for my guardian a.k.a Main tank. I’m telling you his pet was amazing, we where taking down the critters so fast and now the healer mainly used damage spell. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=postbody1><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=#ffffff>I guess I should be happy that the group was a big success, well I can’t help feeling left in the dark. My main reason for choosing the guardian, was because I like to organise groups and to be in the centre of the action. The way I see it this is no longer my role, in fact I can’t really find any use of my once favourite character. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=postbody1><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT color=#ffff00>Can anyone please give me a scenario, where you would choose a guardian before a pet or even another fighter class?</FONT> (Yes you to Gaige and Nemi)</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=postbody1><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#000000><FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=#ffffff>I’m frustrated, please let me know how POF turned out?</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Ifungus on <span class=date_text>09-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:30 AM</span>

[restinpea]

<DIV> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>2) <STRONG>He can pull much more quickly and effectively</STRONG>.<SPAN>  </SPAN>His spell casting has a very long range and the speed with which he gains and holds aggro is sooo fast.<SPAN>  </SPAN>These two elements make him much more effective at chain pulling.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Man, I miss our distance pull!<SPAN>  </SPAN>The fact that the pet effectively has it makes me crazy!</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>--> hihi dont forget , he don't get any add on pull <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />    SOE please nerf it.... pleaseeeeeee. ok i stop to joke.</FONT></P></DIV>

[Mafdet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>--> hihi dont forget , he don't get any add on pull <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />    </FONT><BR></P> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>No kidding,,, tank/healer/dot-er all in one neat package. Just mix with a dash more dps and you're on a roll,,, preferably higher dps than a guard can kick out, of course. Though if they weren't giggling through each fight about how well they're tanking, I might take it a bit better :smileytongue:

[Kell]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ifungus wrote:<BR> <P><SPAN class=postbody1><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT color=#ffff00>Can anyone please give me a scenario, where you would choose a guardian before a pet or even another fighter class?</FONT> (Yes you to Gaige and Nemi)</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=postbody1><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#000000><FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=#ffffff>I’m frustrated, please let me know how POF turned out?</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Ifungus on <SPAN class=date_text>09-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:30 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I am curious about where we can be effective myself.  This is why I can't wait o see how the cyclops in POF are handled by the pet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me be clear.  I am not asking for changes to the pet.  I just think this is a clear indication that we are underpowered as a class.  If I have full ebon, a fabled item, and the "highest" mitigation.  I would expect there to be a noticable difference (when fighting/being helaed) between me and someone's pet.   </DIV> <DIV>Fix me!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My guildmates totally bust on me about the pet.  The jokes are non-stop on teamspeak.</DIV>

[Nemi]

<P>I admit pets are good and perhaps a little too good but to be honest I don't group with summoners very much and most of the time its been with pickups, and they sucked.</P> <P>Bottomline is tho, pets are dumb. While they rock when everything is going well, if there is an add, or positioning in dungeons and it goes belly up and needs a rescue..a pet won't do this.</P> <P>I agree fighters should be the base line, and pets should come a distant second. If pets tank equal or god forbid better than tanks, then summoners have a duo party all the time.</P> <P>EQ1 managed to strike a balance between pet power, caster power that didn't threaten the legitimacy of Fighters, so I'm sure it can happen in EQ2.</P>

[Sunrayn]

<P>Hehe, I posted my experience as a guard vs a conjuror pet the day after the CU went to test and people said 'naw, pet will never replace a real tank'</P> <P>Tank pet still out tanks me today.</P> <P> </P> <P>Sunrayn, 37 guardian--test</P>

[TanRaistlyn]

<P>Yep I watch that happen time and time again, Guards still suck...even at 50 pets are tanking better then us.</P> <P> </P> <P>Covenant</P>

[Raahl]

<P>Why in the world would you have the tank pet out when their DPS pet is extremely nice.  The pet generally added 120-130 DPS to the group.  The conjuror's total with the pet was above our wizards.  Very nice.   The conjuror was very happy I had the parcer up.</P> <P>I would figure the pet doing DPS would make the fight go quicker, the MT should be able to handle the aggro and hopefully stay alive.</P>

[Magimu]

<DIV>Well this is my experience as a lvl 32 Necro backed up by my experiences on my lvl 20 Guardian.  Problem I was finding on my last run on my Necro is my caster pet can still keep aggro due to the dps it packs.  On my Guardian tanking with a lvl 20 Necromancer and a lvl 23 Conjuor I found it was impossible for the pets not to out taunt me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Granted if the pet died which happened a few times after our usually lowbie Fury called it a night the Necro and Conjuors I play with got the crap beat out of them.  But if the pet is up it is alive it tanks becasue at least in lowbie land the current game mechanics makes it impossilbe to out tank a pet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I don't want pet classes nerfed, I was the magican in EQ getting nerfed let and right but something is rotten in this situation I can only hope SoE is listening and can fix the situation without fatally wounding summoners but get us up to par as tanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mulk</DIV><p>Message Edited by Magimulk on <span class=date_text>09-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:45 PM</span>

[Kell]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magimulk wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I don't want pet classes nerfed, I was the magican in EQ getting nerfed let and right but something is rotten in this situation I can only hope SoE is listening and can fix the situation without fatally wounding summoners but get us up to par as tanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mulk</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Magimulk on <SPAN class=date_text>09-22-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>09:45 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Magimulk, I agree with you.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I do not want to see the pet’s get nerfed. <SPAN> </SPAN>I would like to have the pet’s abilities.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Raahl, as too why we have the earth pet out….well the reasons are in the original post.<SPAN>  </SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN>The pet can pull from farther, return quicker, hold aggro better, allowing the DPS classes to nuke away…right from the start.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Finally, fully buffed, the pet’s tanking ability against yellow mobs is not noticeably different from mine.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>If I had a distance pull, improved taunts, and higher mitigation (or mitigation actually meant something), I would be able to produce roughly the same XP/hr as the pet.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Last night we tried the 57/58^^^ Cyclops in POF, with the pet tanking.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The pet struggled, no doubt.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The group had to interrupt and stun constantly to keep him up (Templar as the healer).<SPAN>   </SPAN>So I CAN tank these mobs *slightly* better than the pet.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Although these are still to risky to tank on a regular basis with a single healer.<SPAN>  </SPAN>With me tanking we might kill 10-12 with me in the orange and red occasionally…then one would hit me hard with two shots close together and that we be all she wrote.<SPAN>  </SPAN>So we moved back to yellows and used the pet. </FONT></P><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>The conjurer leveled to 52 last night and got a new earth pet. He is upgrading him today and the group is excited to see what he tanks like.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Wonderful </SPAN><SPAN><SPAN>L</SPAN></SPAN></FONT><BR></DIV>

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR> <P>Why in the world would you have the tank pet out when their DPS pet is extremely nice.  The pet generally added 120-130 DPS to the group.  The conjuror's total with the pet was above our wizards.  Very nice.   The conjuror was very happy I had the parcer up.</P> <P>I would figure the pet doing DPS would make the fight go quicker, the MT should be able to handle the aggro and hopefully stay alive.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>In my case, the conjuror started out with the fire pet.  After a few fights and the healer going oop healing the dps that kept taking aggro from me because of the taunt...fixing....and newly added resists to taunt, and the fact that my mitigation and avoidance were cut and I was taking more healing, the conjuror...suggested...that he pull out his adept1 tank pet, 'just for giggles'.</P> <P>Turned out we were killing faster because the dps didnt have to keep stopping so I could get aggro back, the healer didnt have to heal nearly as much and started nuking, and with the pet pulling we didnt have to worry about adds.</P>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sunrayn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR> <P>Why in the world would you have the tank pet out when their DPS pet is extremely nice.  The pet generally added 120-130 DPS to the group.  The conjuror's total with the pet was above our wizards.  Very nice.   The conjuror was very happy I had the parcer up.</P> <P>I would figure the pet doing DPS would make the fight go quicker, the MT should be able to handle the aggro and hopefully stay alive.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>In my case, the conjuror started out with the fire pet.  After a few fights and the healer going oop healing the dps that kept taking aggro from me because of the taunt...fixing....and newly added resists to taunt, and the fact that my mitigation and avoidance were cut and I was taking more healing, the conjuror...suggested...that he pull out his adept1 tank pet, 'just for giggles'.</P> <P>Turned out we were killing faster because the dps didnt have to keep stopping so I could get aggro back, the healer didnt have to heal nearly as much and started nuking, and with the pet pulling we didnt have to worry about adds.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ok there are some other benefits to having your pet tank. 

[Burningho]

<DIV>My main is a 50 necro, and my alt is a 49 guardian.  I think I can shed some insight on the topic of pet tanks versus the guardian class. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My necro's fighter pet (Rotting Thrall) is adept iii with a master ii defensive stance.  My pet heals are a combination of adept iii's and master ii's. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My guardian is level 49 with a few pieces of ebon armor, all adept 1 taunts and buffs (with the exception of Maddening Defense at master ii), and no fabled gear.  Not uber by any means. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me start by saying flat out that my guardian is a better tank than my fighter pet.  The pet is a good tank, but not as good at taking damage as the guardian is. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900><STRONG>Tanking</STRONG></FONT><BR>When it comes to taking a hit the guardian is better than my pet tank.  This is especially true for white/yellow con mobs, and is less noticable for mobs that con blue and below.  If my group wants to fight blue con mobs, my pet tank can get the job done pretty well.  If my group wants to fight white/yellow con mobs my guardian is clearly a better choice. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anytime I have tried pet tanking mobs higher than blues it becomes too hard to keep the pet healed, even with as many as 3 healers.  Against white or slightly yellow mobs my pet will at times take huge spikes of damage and be very hard to keep standing.  Tanking whites with my pet feels the same as trying to tank high yellow mobs with my guardian. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was also able to compare my pet to a 47 sk (no fabled or ebon gear, adept 1 spells) while fighting 47/48^^^ spiders in SS.  My level 50 adept iii pet was essentially tanking and holding aggro equal to the 47 sk. </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900><STRONG>Aggro</STRONG></FONT><BR>My guardian can hold aggro better than my pet once I figured out that I absolutely have to use Maddening Defense (master ii) on every single fight.  Granted, my pet tank does hold aggro surprisingly well but not as well as my guardian when using MD.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When testing my pet tank, I lost aggro to both healers and dps when they went all out (but kept aggro when they held back a little).  While fighting the same mobs, with the same group, doing the excact same thing, I did not loose aggro with my guardian.  Again, I have to use MD (which is a pain) but my guardian did hold aggro better than my tank pet.</DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#ff9900><STRONG>Pulling</STRONG></FONT><BR>My pet does have a major advantage at pulling over my guardian, or any other fighter for that matter.  The pet can pull faster, easier, and safer.  The pet can quickly pull from a long range with no risk of adds.  Big advantage to the pet here. <STRONG><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff9900>DPS</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV>My necro's tank pet has far better dps than my guardian.  When tanking in a defensive stance, my tank pet does 90-110 dps.  When MT in a defensive stance, my guardian does 30-60 dps. </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>So to reiterate, my necro fighter pet does have an advantage at pulling and dps over my guardian.  However, my guardian is better at holding aggro and at taking damage, especially against white con mobs or higher.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After all my testing, what my groups do now is use a pet to pull but have a fighter class MT.  This strategy works very well and makes for fast pulls. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Burninghope wrote:<BR> <DIV>My main is a 50 necro, and my alt is a 49 guardian.  I think I can shed some insight on the topic of pet tanks versus the guardian class. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My necro's fighter pet (Rotting Thrall) is adept iii with a master ii defensive stance.  My pet heals are a combination of adept iii's and master ii's. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My guardian is level 49 with a few pieces of ebon armor, all adept 1 taunts and buffs (with the exception of Maddening Defense at master ii), and no fabled gear.  Not uber by any means. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me start by saying flat out that my guardian is a better tank than my fighter pet.  The pet is a good tank, but not as good at taking damage as the guardian is. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900><STRONG>Tanking</STRONG></FONT><BR>When it comes to taking a hit the guardian is better than my pet tank.  This is especially true for white/yellow con mobs, and is less noticable for mobs that con blue and below.  If my group wants to fight blue con mobs, my pet tank can get the job done pretty well.  If my group wants to fight white/yellow con mobs my guardian is clearly a better choice. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anytime I have tried pet tanking mobs higher than blues it becomes too hard to keep the pet healed, even with as many as 3 healers.  Against white or slightly yellow mobs my pet will at times take huge spikes of damage and be very hard to keep standing.  Tanking whites with my pet feels the same as trying to tank high yellow mobs with my guardian. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was also able to compare my pet to a 47 sk (no fabled or ebon gear, adept 1 spells) while fighting 47/48^^^ spiders in SS.  My level 50 adept iii pet was essentially tanking and holding aggro equal to the 47 sk. </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900><STRONG>Aggro</STRONG></FONT><BR>My guardian can hold aggro better than my pet once I figured out that I absolutely have to use Maddening Defense (master ii) on every single fight.  Granted, my pet tank does hold aggro surprisingly well but not as well as my guardian when using MD.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When testing my pet tank, I lost aggro to both healers and dps when they went all out (but kept aggro when they held back a little).  While fighting the same mobs, with the same group, doing the excact same thing, I did not loose aggro with my guardian.  Again, I have to use MD (which is a pain) but my guardian did hold aggro better than my tank pet.</DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#ff9900><STRONG>Pulling</STRONG></FONT><BR>My pet does have a major advantage at pulling over my guardian, or any other fighter for that matter.  The pet can pull faster, easier, and safer.  The pet can quickly pull from a long range with no risk of adds.  Big advantage to the pet here. <STRONG><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff9900>DPS</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV>My necro's tank pet has far better dps than my guardian.  When tanking in a defensive stance, my tank pet does 90-110 dps.  When MT in a defensive stance, my guardian does 30-60 dps. </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>So to reiterate, my necro fighter pet does have an advantage at pulling and dps over my guardian.  However, my guardian is better at holding aggro and at taking damage, especially against white con mobs or higher.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After all my testing, what my groups do now is use a pet to pull but have a fighter class MT.  This strategy works very well and makes for fast pulls. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Quick question.  Have you gotten a chance to play your guardian post-patch?  </P> <P>Yea I noticed that pets were doing good damage.  I was wondering why a group wouldn't go for the DPS.</P> <P>So your current strategy is pull with DPS pet then have the MT take aggro off of the pet?</P>

[Kell]

<P><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>Burninghope, thank you for your feedback.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I normally group with a conjurer not a necro…so I can’t comment on your pet vs. the conjurer’s….maybe there is no difference.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>What I can tell you was that after we tried the orange Cyclops in POF we went back to the scorpions…..shortly after our templar left group.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Our other guild healers were offline or grouped, so we picked up a paladin.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>We continued pet pulling/tanking with the paladin as the only “healer”.<SPAN>  </SPAN>It was still easy to keep the pet alive and continue pulling.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Although we did have down time after pulling 3-4 mobs.<SPAN>  </SPAN>We could extend this with use of interrupts and stuns, but we would have to wait on power/health eventually…..we could not continuously chain pull.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>I suggested that I tank for a bit to see what the difference was….</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>Well, I was happy that I did tank better than the pet with only the paladin as a “healer’.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>It was easier to keep me “topped off” and because I was slower at pulling the scorpions we could chain pull more mobs without a break.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>That being said it is sad that the only “noticeable difference” in my ability to take hits vs. the pet is evident when we have ½ a healer.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>The conjurer hit 52 while we pulling and he gets this a new earth pet……he had boutght the spell ahead of time and quickly scribed it and “summoned” him.<SPAN>  </SPAN>We did not stick around much longer (it was getting late), but I will let you know how I do vs. this new pet.</FONT></P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>P.S.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Some quick parse numbers.<SPAN>  </SPAN>In offensive stance (with a two-hander) against single yellow <SPAN> </SPAN>heroic52/53^^^ mobs is able to do about 120-130 DPS. <SPAN>  </SPAN>I was pleasantly surprised by this.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The paladin could get to about 100</FONT></SPAN>

[Burningho]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Quick question.  Have you gotten a chance to play your guardian post-patch?  </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yea I noticed that pets were doing good damage.  I was wondering why a group wouldn't go for the DPS.</P> <P>So your current strategy is pull with DPS pet then have the MT take aggro off of the pet?</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>All of this is post patch.  I have split my play time post LU13 between my guardian and my necro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My current strategy (when playing my necro) is actually to pull with my fighter pet in an offensive stance and then have the MT peel off of the pet.  My fighter pet can easily handle the damage from the mob as he runs back to the group where my dps pets are paper.  Plus, my fighter pet is adept iii and his dps is very close to the dps of my adept 1 dps pets.  This also allows me to off tank any adds with my figther pet if need be.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Burninghope on <span class=date_text>09-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:39 AM</span>

[JNewby]

<P>imo the pets are way to powerful and need a big super nerf bat... I mean when a caster has a pet that can tank as well as some guy I have spent my whole time making that is disheartening... tanks should be way better bar none... pet tanking in groups is very sad now... and I hope this gets fixed... cause it really seems to be a bug</P>

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JNewby wrote:<BR> <P>imo the pets are way to powerful and need a big super nerf bat... I mean when a caster has a pet that can tank as well as some guy I have spent my whole time making that is disheartening... tanks should be way better bar none... pet tanking in groups is very sad now... and I hope this gets fixed... cause it really seems to be a bug</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Naw, it isnt that the pet is all-powerful, I have a 28 conjuror alt on test too, and the adept1 tank isnt all that.  The problem is that guardians have had their mitigation, hp and avoidance nerfed to oblivion along with their taunts.</P> <P>Another problem is that different shields make absolutely no difference in blocking.</P> <P>Example: I was using a Waterlogged Kite Shield (drop from the overgrown beaver in nek) It had no agi stat and offered 300 shield factor.  I switched out to a...Twin Dragon, something, Kite shield that added no agi and had 420 shield factor.  NO defensive stat changed, not blocking, not avoidance, not mitigation, nothing.</P>

[Kell]

<P><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>The saga continues......we grouped last night with the conjurer’s new level 52 earth pet (it looks like an earth elemental).<SPAN>  </SPAN>The results of last night speak for themselves…there is absolutely no reason to have me tank yellow (or below) heroic mobs in a group setting.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The pet tanked VERY effectively.<SPAN>  </SPAN>My normal group really does not need me at all…..if they were selfish they would fill my spot with better dps and be more efficient overall.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>The ONLY advantage that I have over the pet is when there are adds.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The conjurer did not seem to be able to switch targets quickly and establish aggro with the adds…. although that maybe be a skill he has not had to developed, until now.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>We decided to try having some other people tank, just to see the effect.<SPAN>  </SPAN>We started with the swashbuckler.<SPAN>  </SPAN>His hit points and mitigation numbers are significantly lower than mine, and his avoidance is about the same.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I am sad to report that there was little difference with him tanking.<SPAN>  </SPAN>With the hate generator on him, He could hold aggro well, and if mobs peeled off him, he would just use his high end attack buff (up every3 minutes) to get them back.<SPAN>  </SPAN>We had a single healer (lvl 50 Templar) and he says he does not notice a big difference between the swashbuckler and I tanking.<SPAN>  </SPAN>He even commented that with more dps the fight would be shorter, and there would be no difference in power usage between the swashie and me….and he is a level below me (I am 51)!</FONT></P><SPAN><FONT color=#000000><FONT face=Arial color=#ffffff>I will parse some data over the next few days and see what the numbers look like.</FONT><SPAN>  </SPAN></FONT></SPAN>