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Tabiani
01-07-2005, 07:41 PM
An interesting bit of news I picked up while reading another game board:<HR>New "adventure pack" update model will attempt to deliver a personal story for players at a low price.-By Jeff Gerstmann -- GameSpot POSTED: 01/06/05 09:29 PM PST<HR>The full article can be read here: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/01/06/news_6115915.htmlThe gist of the story is that SOE intends to release an update that you must pay what is described as a "small fee" to finish. Depending upon the amount of content and the price, I'll reserve judgement. Since I doubt, judging by what little was released in the interview, that it is anywhere close to a full expansion I expect the fee had beter be nominal. Under a buck, for instance, if it consists of little more than a shot at the boss mob or a once-a-week instance. For anything more than a couple dollars I'd expect something more like a full zone or two. Still I find the concept vaguely unsettling.CynnibarRatinga anxiously eyeing the future of EverQuest II

bigd
01-07-2005, 07:46 PM
Here is a clickable link to it: <a href=http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/01/06/news_6115915.html target=_blank>http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/01/06/news_6115915.html</a>Sounds interesting. Sort of a try-before-buy model it seems

Yodaya
01-07-2005, 08:10 PM
<DIV>Hmm, adventure packs sounds interesting. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But, please fix all the bugs before that. I wouldn't even mind paying for a patch which only does bug fixing. But, it should at least fix 80% of the known defects.</DIV> <DIV>And, what about lavastorm? is it in game yet?</DIV>

Tabiani
01-07-2005, 08:11 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bigdog wrote:<BR>Here is a clickable link to it: <A href="http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/01/06/news_6115915.html" target=_blank>http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/01/06/news_6115915.html</A><BR><BR>Sounds interesting. Sort of a try-before-buy model it seems<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=3>Thanks for the clicky! For some reason, known only to the authors of Lithium and alternative browsers, I can't see any of the formatting options on the machine I was using. Had to dig out the old, old, laptop to verify I hadn't lost the ability to quote, insert links, change fonts colors, etc. Now back on "pure Micro$oft" I can do that, edit and more! Ah well back home on Monday to the normal setup. </FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=3>Try-before-buy? Hmm, hadn't thought of it that way. You certainly could do that. There are a couple of expansions for EQ1 I might not have bought if they had come that way. </FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=3>Cynnibar</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=3>Ratonga with a little brighter outlook</FONT></P>

Rain
01-07-2005, 08:41 PM
<DIV>I can't believe they are talking about expansions already. Get the current game fixed first, ie broken abilities/combat arts/spells and of course the daily, hour long downtime.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Krynd
01-07-2005, 09:16 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rainey wrote:<BR> <DIV>Get the current game fixed first, ie broken abilities/combat arts/spells and of course the daily, hour long downtime.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Every MMORPG has this downtime for server back-ups; don't expect this to go away, ever.</DIV>

Kodros
01-07-2005, 09:43 PM
Also, new content doesn't require coders so therefore most, if not all, of the Live Team coders are working on bugs.

Ixtar
01-07-2005, 10:24 PM
<DIV>I can't take credit for this but I won't be surprised if SoE goes down this road in the near future...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Announcing the newest expansion: The Trials of Payusmoor! Coming soon direct to your desktop via Sony Online's patented Pay-Per-Quest technology!"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mayor of Payusmoor: "Adventurer, we need you to retrieve the Cursed Amulet of Q'stomer Servuus, hidden somewhere in the Bogs of Unending Phees! Do you accept this quest?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Darksword Stormbarrow: "Yes!"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mayor of Payusmoor: "Excellent! Thank you, brave adventurer! How would you like to pay?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A. Visa</DIV> <DIV>B. Mastercard</DIV> <DIV>C. Amex</DIV> <DIV>D. Paypal</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We don't take Discover."</DIV>

Lord C
01-07-2005, 10:25 PM
<DIV>That article just cause me to cancle my everquest 2 subscription...  I already dropped SWG after the space expansion 'ended' with only 1 month of game play (very structured skill system that leads you through all your skills leaving you at an end game of just pvp... not very pve oriented or entertainment oriented at that...) and now i'm dropping eq2, after only a couple of months, because of this 'Extortion Pack' they're planning on releasing......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Knowing SOE as I do from SWG... they'll have their 3rd Extortion Pack up for sale before they start working on the bugs that were reported in beta, but still made it into the release of the game... (And when does the EQ2 combat rebalance happen? or did they actually balance the classes before release?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>p.s. flame me all you like... this is my one and only "i'm leaving" post... and it's in the correct forum!</DIV>

Lord C
01-07-2005, 10:27 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kryndal wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rainey wrote:<BR> <DIV>Get the current game fixed first, ie broken abilities/combat arts/spells and of course the daily, hour long downtime.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Every MMORPG has this downtime for server back-ups; don't expect this to go away, ever.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> WOW recently did away with their daily downtime... now they only have it about once a week, on average...  Only the poorly written MMO's that need a reboot every 22 hours have this sort of daily maintenance... the quality ones do live backups and only come down for maintenance when there is actual maintenance to perform... not just a daily reboot...

Lord C
01-07-2005, 10:28 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kodros wrote:<BR>Also, new content doesn't require coders so therefore most, if not all, of the Live Team coders are working on bugs.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> It's specifically stated that not only is there new 'content'... but there are new 'features' that go along with it... so no.. the coders are NOT working on bugs... they're working on the Extortion Pack... if you're lucky... you'll get a few 'bug fixes' in with your Extortion Pack... but you'll probably have to pay for the good ones...

Magiq
01-07-2005, 10:55 PM
what a crock.next thing you know SOE will charge us per mob we kill plus monthly charges.all i can say is...www.ddo.com

jalberths
01-07-2005, 11:55 PM
<DIV>I thought that we were paying a MONTHLY FEE for this kind of stuff.  If they are going to start charging us for updates then they need to stop charging a monthly fee.  This is really getting out of hand.  Next we're going to be paying to level up.</DIV>

Moorgard
01-08-2005, 12:05 AM
<DIV>We'll be releasing more details on the Adventure Packs very soon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think of them like modules for P&P adventure games. They're a smaller scale, self-containted storyline that adds onto the world with a more focused scope than a full-fledged expansion. They'll have a very reasonable price tag.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Keep in mind you'll get the first part for free, so everyone can enjoy a new zone whether you buy the rest or not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Adventure Packs aren't the only way we'll be adding content. Our Live Team is working on in-game events and storylines that will be surfacing in the coming weeks. Just as we added two new zones with this week's update, more free adventure areas will be coming in subsequent updates.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Beyond that, there will be full expansions that add significant new lands and features to the game.</DIV>

Arago
01-08-2005, 12:08 AM
<DIV>thanks for the response Moor that helps out</DIV>

Cant
01-08-2005, 12:22 AM
<DIV>i still think its a load of crock its basicly a half [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] expantion and there probly gonna charget $12 for it or something witch ptf 4 of them things and ya got your self an expantion and what about keeping your guildies on the same level as you? if things are made easyer for some people then its gonna throw off the balance</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>now if thay wanna up date it in quarters such as summer winter spring and fall 1 for each then i might say its differnt but we dont all have good jobs we dont all make $20.00 an hr </DIV>

Bolanos
01-08-2005, 12:22 AM
<DIV>So Moorgard, let me see if I got this right.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You guys are sitting there, putting time into this mini expansion, because in all simple and realistic ways, what you are discribing is a mini expansion, Instead of working on fixing the bugs and issues with the current game that is live?  You haven't fixed the problems we're having with crafting, you haven't fixed the lag issue some of us are having, you haven't fixed most of the bugs introduced with the new patch, and on top of all, you haven't even LOOKED at fixing the issues with the Nvidia 6800 cards which according to you guys its "the way it was meant to be played"!  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How about putting all of that manpower behind fixing the stupid game first before you start working/releasing expansions!</DIV>

JoNa
01-08-2005, 12:22 AM
<DIV>i thought that part of our monthly fee goes towards the devs adding small portions of new content to the game on a regular basis. why are we paying for that now as an Adventure Pack? what a rip off.</DIV>

JoNa
01-08-2005, 12:24 AM
<DIV>i'd rather pay for bug fixes, maybe call it a "Fix It Pack"?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>or changes in game philosophy like allowing players to sell offline ("Offline Selling Pack") or making armor useful enough to sell ("Making Artisans Useful Pack")?</DIV>

BrickyardRac
01-08-2005, 12:25 AM
<DIV>Moorgard, could you possibly relay to someone who decides things that it might be wise to fix the content that has been broken since release before adding new content (especially purchasable content).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As others have stated, I'm to the point where I might even consider PAYING to get the bugs fixed, it's that bad (armorer here).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean, seriously, are you guys even aware that some classes are still, essentially, broken?  And at the same time, instead of fixing those classes, you're adding two new dungeons (for groups only, and one of them doesn't even work on release).  Do you not see the disconnect here?</DIV>

Vobe
01-08-2005, 12:35 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just as we added two new zones with this week's update, more free adventure areas will be coming in subsequent updates.</DIV> <DIV><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I can see it now, the continent of Odus is slowly added to the game, one zone at a time over the course of the next five years.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>LOL, sorry I couldnt help myself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(For those of you who dont get it, that is how most of that continent was implemented into EQ)</DIV>

Pain Divine
01-08-2005, 12:38 AM
<DIV>I posted this as a joke about 2 months ago... eveyone said "No, they'd never do that"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img27.exs.cx/img27/9010/epic3gk.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Bannon
01-08-2005, 12:40 AM
<DIV>Maybe I just have a brighter outlook on life..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I'm assuming these wont be more than $5 each...and it seems like you'll get the zone...but the "epic" quest that goes along with it you will have to pay for....or something similar to that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, every expansion cost money...if its a small expansion that I can just download and not have to pre-order or find a store thats gonna carry it...yea I'd be happy to pay a small fee for it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, on the darker side...I WILL NOT pay per update...thats something that everyone should refuse...fix the bugs(which should and I believe are seperated from the expansion stuff we are talking about) first and without an attached cost.</DIV>

Jeridor
01-08-2005, 12:40 AM
<DIV>I was going to buy the station access option.  I was intending to buy every expansion the minute it was available. I was intending to back the EQ2 team with every dollar necessary to get the greatest game experience available.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, I am very dillusioned with the current state of things, mostly tradeskill related.  At this point the only reason I've not done a full 180 and canceled is because of the presence of my friends in EQ2.  Still, I can't see myself buying new content at this point until I feel the EQ2 staff is serving the needs of their customers.</DIV>

Pain Divine
01-08-2005, 12:41 AM
<DIV>BTW, in case it isn't clear that's a doctored picture. My point being, this is what we "could" see. And from Moorgards post, it looks like my prediction was correct.</DIV>

evilco
01-08-2005, 12:43 AM
wow, everytime I think "SOE cant beat this" I read something like this. Well, wow, Im impressed what ways of money making you are inventing. First we have to pay for some little stats, now we have to pay for extra content ... uh ... so whats coming next? Paying money if you want to ding level 60?

Pain Divine
01-08-2005, 12:51 AM
<DIV><FONT size=2> <P>Yea, this game had real potential… but I really think this is the last straw. I'm going to have to think long and hard over the weekend on weather I want to continue putting work into my character. I really like her, but I'm having a harder and harder time justifying giving SOE my money. My God Sony… what on earth are you doing?</P></FONT></DIV>

Ibi
01-08-2005, 12:57 AM
<DIV>This really pisses me off, gotta pay 15$ a month gotta pay 2.99$ for the player sitre extras now gotta pay for content that we already been paying to get what the hell where does it end? Are you going to start charging every time we login or every time we enter a new zone. And it sounds like we get the new zones but you gotta pay for the quests for that zone? Thats just some underhanded [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] there, give you a zone but gotta pay for the quests. I give up I love Everquest 2 but not enough to get screwed and go broke paying for content THAT I'M ALREADY PAYING FOR.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ibiki on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:58 AM</span>

Niz
01-08-2005, 12:59 AM
<DIV><FONT color=#cc33ff>I was going to say this is unbelievable...even for SOE.  But no, it's not really.  :smileyindifferent:</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Nizam on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:36 PM</span>

Markusda
01-08-2005, 01:03 AM
<DIV>Hmmm, the adventure packs sound like exactly what this game needs - some in-depth, continuous content.  Not the 'get my broom, here's a rock' filler quests.  Too bad you are going to force us to pay more for it.  Correction, force others to pay more for it.</DIV>

Malead
01-08-2005, 01:08 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kryndal wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rainey wrote:<BR> <DIV>Get the current game fixed first, ie broken abilities/combat arts/spells and of course the daily, hour long downtime.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Every MMORPG has this downtime for server back-ups; don't expect this to go away, ever.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> The server downtime every morning has nothing to do with backups. it's to reset the memory leaks and database problems. Also not every game has daily downtime. EQ1 goes for weeks without any server down time. SWG was the first game that I've played that was so poorly written that it required daily downtime. Besides most mission critical storage systems use snapshot technology to allow backups without ever shutting down the applications.

patim
01-08-2005, 01:09 AM
<DIV>My, aren't we a petulant bunch...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If they can make it work and get people to pay, great! More content for those who want it. If they don't provide enough free new content as well there will be consequences and people will quit, just as is the case right now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And regarding dev resources, you can't just throw every developer you have on "bug fixes" and magically expect them to be fixed faster. The benefit has a law of diminishing returns. Too many developers looking at the same code can in fact be counterproductive. I'm not saying they have the right amount of people on bug fixes, but putting every last resource on it isn't the right answer either!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Malead
01-08-2005, 01:13 AM
<DIV>I don't want to be nickle and dimed for everything. Just do a normal $30.00 full expansion once a year.</DIV>

Niz
01-08-2005, 01:13 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maleador wrote:<BR> <DIV>I don't want to be nickle and dimed for everything. Just do a normal $30.00 full expansion once a year.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#cc66ff>They are, this is in addition to that.</FONT><BR>

Malead
01-08-2005, 01:15 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nizam wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maleador wrote:<BR> <DIV>I don't want to be nickle and dimed for everything. Just do a normal $30.00 full expansion once a year.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#cc66ff>They are, this is in addition to that.</FONT><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Like I said just do "ONE" full expansion a year. I don't want to see a $5.00 or $10.00 charge pop up every couple of weeks just so I can go play with my friends.

Pain Divine
01-08-2005, 01:16 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> patimen wrote:<BR> <DIV>My, aren't we a petulant bunch...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If they can make it work and get people to pay, great! More content for those who want it. If they don't provide enough free new content as well there will be consequences and people will quit, just as is the case right now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And regarding dev resources, you can't just throw every developer you have on "bug fixes" and magically expect them to be fixed faster. The benefit has a law of diminishing returns. Too many developers looking at the same code can in fact be counterproductive. I'm not saying they have the right amount of people on bug fixes, but putting every last resource on it isn't the right answer either!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> You don't understand... the only way people are going to pay for this stuff is if there are items involved... GOOD items... This is almost assuredly going to be "Epic quest" type stuff... Items that give people an advantage over other players. SOE is basically going to start selling individual items for money. That just sucks.

Markusda
01-08-2005, 01:17 AM
<DIV>Basically, it seems that SOE is charging for what others offer free as part of their service.  More character slots (old argument), adding in depth content, etc.  As a consumer, I will not take part in a game or company that is, for all intents and purposes, fleecing their customer base.  Although I would hope others will follow suit, I know better.  </DIV>

Kunathar
01-08-2005, 01:21 AM
<blockquote><hr>Maleador wrote:<DIV>I don't want to be nickle and dimed for everything. Just do a normal $30.00 full expansion once a year.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Not enough exposure. If they release something new only once every year, EQ2 "noise" would be likely muffled by the many competitive options in MMO market atm and in the future.But if they have mini-packs every so often throughout a year, they can rev their Marketing Engine up and keep the "noise" going.Of course this is a cynical position to take, I would think they are more about delivering continuous content to keep the game competitive and interesting for their players then rushing out mini-paks to give their Marketing Budget some fodder.

sleepyj
01-08-2005, 01:22 AM
As one with 3X lvl 40 artisan .. hmm, not really ... 2X and one 39 artisans, I am really feeling this is a pay-to-play beta test for tradeskills. There are numerous bugs unfixed.The notorious iron ring that could kill an armoror on a grey recipe, and would only need a change in text field, is not fixed.Millions of missing recipe icons like "Refined Elm" as to "Elm Lumber", which requires someone with minimum wages to work 4 hours, is not fixed.And the new expansion is coming?Oh, they broke the /togglebags with the new patch too. This is kinda frustrating.

patim
01-08-2005, 01:24 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pain Divine wrote:<BR>You don't understand... the only way people are going to pay for this stuff is if there are items involved... GOOD items... This is almost assuredly going to be "Epic quest" type stuff... Items that give people an advantage over other players. SOE is basically going to start selling individual items for money. That just sucks.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>That does seem like a problem. I'm not sure that people will only pay for more items though. SOME people will only pay for more items. Others are different. Some will pay for a new area to explore, others for more involvement in the backstory, and others because they want new enemies to fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the end, what difference does it make to you if someone has better stuff? What advantage do they get? Level 50 faster? If that's all they care about, let them have it. Perhaps this is exactly why there is no PvP. So they can milk money from those who want nothing but better stuff. I just don't see the harm, provided they don't cease providing new and good content for the rest of us. (A big if, I'll grant, but this new idea has nothing to do with it.)</DIV>

Kyliegi
01-08-2005, 01:26 AM
<DIV>>>> <DIV>We'll be releasing more details on the Adventure Packs very soon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think of them like modules for P&P adventure games. They're a smaller scale, self-containted storyline that adds onto the world with a more focused scope than a full-fledged expansion. They'll have a very reasonable price tag.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Keep in mind you'll get the first part for free, so everyone can enjoy a new zone whether you buy the rest or not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Adventure Packs aren't the only way we'll be adding content. Our Live Team is working on in-game events and storylines that will be surfacing in the coming weeks. Just as we added two new zones with this week's update, more free adventure areas will be coming in subsequent updates.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Beyond that, there will be full expansions that add significant new lands and features to the game.<<<<BR><BR><FONT color=#ccffcc><STRONG>AKA:  All Your Money Is Belong To Us</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV>:smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffcc></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffcc>Alexius Legend</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffcc>44 Templar, Antonia Bayle</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

peach
01-08-2005, 01:30 AM
<DIV>So let me get this straight, once every bug is squished...how long til everyone start to complain about lack of content since they done it all while the bugs we're worked on. Look they are working on the bugs and working on future content, which Im very excited about. Every MMO has a bumping road sometimes, but it will level out soon enough..</DIV>

kerev
01-08-2005, 01:36 AM
<DIV>There's going to be a storyline!?  :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

LoofLirpa
01-08-2005, 01:43 AM
<DIV>Hmmmm, its not hard to see how SOE rationalized this as a viable idea... Software sales + web-access goodies + subscriptions is not grossing them enough revenue.  What else can SOE sell for additional revenue?  Quests which are entirely "optional" but grant a reward which is so irresistable that the hard core players have no problem buying for $5.  How many people do you know would galdly pay a bit of cash to one-up a buddy?......In order for the Smiths to keep up with the Jones' the other peeps are "forced" to buy the Quest.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I don't like the idea of playing the fool but I could see myself getting sucked into this ploy.  (Im bought OMENS for an extra spell slot....).  But what happenes when they start selling bonus gear for 5.00$?  A special sword for $2.50?  A super-fast silver horse for $.99 a month?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like [email protected] and fully understand SOE's desire to make money but I think they have to they have to be careful about "how" they make it.   Please don't stoop to underhanded money making schemes that inevitably will lose you more money in the end or, of course, there will be no more EQ</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And fix the current bugs first please before you do anything else..........</DIV>

Loq
01-08-2005, 01:44 AM
<DIV>I don't think it is a terrible idea... I mean, they can come up with whatever business model they want. If people buy it, it is successful. If people don't buy it, they will call it off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What really, really bothers me is that this business model was not disclosed when I bought the game. I think it is really innapropriate to just start making up pricing schemes for content AFTER I have already agreed to pay x dollars a month. (And assuming a big update will come out every so often I will have to shell out for)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nobody will be "forced" to buy these mini-updates, but they will buy them. Because they are invested in the game. Because that is the way the game is designed.... It's like crack cocaine for ne D&D crowd. It seems really sleazy, and disrespectful to the player base to me. Like a drug dealer offering the first one free, then you are hooked and have to shell out the $$$.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shame on you SOE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Loqi</DIV>

Ferond
01-08-2005, 01:45 AM
<DIV>Man, you can really tell the stingy, the childish, the cheapskates, the whiners, the the the's when something like this comes along.</DIV> <DIV>First and foremost, this is their game, you don't like their pricing model then stop playing/paying.</DIV> <DIV>More importantly, this is the future of these type of games, so get used to it.</DIV> <DIV>They employ a great deal of people to add all these extras...and you have to pay for em.</DIV> <DIV>When you go buy a car they don't just give you the leather and superior sound system for free..they are OPTIONS...that cost EXTRA...</DIV> <DIV>Same thing with a biggie fry and a drink...it's EXTRA...</DIV> <DIV>Everything is like that...generic can o beans, or name brand can o beans...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Geezus, quit whining...either pay or don't, stop being children...stomping your feet and throwing a tantrum isn't going to do anything to motivate them to change anything...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I for one think the added option is a nice thing.. I may not get it, but I'll have the option to do so...at the very least I will be getting some additional content to explore pro bono, which is nice...gift horse n all...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Agree with the poster that spoke about dev resources/allocation/multiple levels of effort...right on the money there...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And to all the ones crying poor-mouth...if you can't afford your evercrack addiction, work harder/smarter and get paid more...or stop playing....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>geez..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Ellya
01-08-2005, 01:48 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> peach77 wrote:<BR> <DIV>So let me get this straight, once every bug is squished...how long til everyone start to complain about lack of content since they done it all while the bugs we're worked on. Look they are working on the bugs and working on future content, which Im very excited about. <U><STRONG>Every MMO has a bumping road sometimes, but it will level out soon enough..</STRONG></U></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Ever hear of a little game called Horizons?</DIV>

Ellya
01-08-2005, 01:51 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ferondia wrote:<BR> <DIV>Man, you can really tell the stingy, the childish, the cheapskates, the whiners, the the the's when something like this comes along.</DIV> <DIV>First and foremost, this is their game, you don't like their pricing model then stop playing/paying.</DIV> <DIV>More importantly, this is the future of these type of games, so get used to it.</DIV> <DIV>They employ a great deal of people to add all these extras...and you have to pay for em.</DIV> <DIV>When you go buy a car they don't just give you the leather and superior sound system for free..they are OPTIONS...that cost EXTRA...</DIV> <DIV>Same thing with a biggie fry and a drink...it's EXTRA...</DIV> <DIV>Everything is like that...generic can o beans, or name brand can o beans...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Geezus, quit whining...either pay or don't, stop being children...stomping your feet and throwing a tantrum isn't going to do anything to motivate them to change anything...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I for one think the added option is a nice thing.. I may not get it, but I'll have the option to do so...at the very least I will be getting some additional content to explore pro bono, which is nice...gift horse n all...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Agree with the poster that spoke about dev resources/allocation/multiple levels of effort...right on the money there...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And to all the ones crying poor-mouth...if you can't afford your evercrack addiction, work harder/smarter and get paid more...or stop playing....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>geez..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Ferondia you are an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. People like you should have their mouths sewn shut and their fingers super glued together. Please do all us a favor and go away. <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Ellyana on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:54 PM</span>

Stromul
01-08-2005, 01:56 AM
<DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>All I have to say is  this game is going to turn into another Project Entropia where you have to spend real money to do anything.</FONT></DIV>

patim
01-08-2005, 01:57 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ellyana wrote:<BR> <BR> Ferondia you are an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. People like you should have their mouths sewn shut and their fingers super glued together. Please do all us a favor and go away. <P>Message Edited by Ellyana on <SPAN class=date_text>01-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:54 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Great argument there. Very compelling.<BR>

Pain Divine
01-08-2005, 01:58 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ellyana wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Ferondia you are an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. People like you should have their mouths sewn shut and their fingers super glued together. Please do all us a favor and go away. <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Ellyana on <SPAN class=date_text>01-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:54 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>While I can understand your frustraition... I can't understand your choice of words. Thanks for getting this thread locked on us.<BR>

Jeridor
01-08-2005, 01:59 AM
<DIV>Heh, I just thought of something funny.  For those who buy all these add ons, we'll call it EverQuest 2.  For those who don't, we'll call it EverZone 2. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Ferond
01-08-2005, 02:00 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ellyana wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ferondia wrote:<BR> <DIV>Man, you can really tell the stingy, the childish, the cheapskates, the whiners, the the the's when something like this comes along.</DIV> <DIV>First and foremost, this is their game, you don't like their pricing model then stop playing/paying.</DIV> <DIV>More importantly, this is the future of these type of games, so get used to it.</DIV> <DIV>They employ a great deal of people to add all these extras...and you have to pay for em.</DIV> <DIV>When you go buy a car they don't just give you the leather and superior sound system for free..they are OPTIONS...that cost EXTRA...</DIV> <DIV>Same thing with a biggie fry and a drink...it's EXTRA...</DIV> <DIV>Everything is like that...generic can o beans, or name brand can o beans...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Geezus, quit whining...either pay or don't, stop being children...stomping your feet and throwing a tantrum isn't going to do anything to motivate them to change anything...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I for one think the added option is a nice thing.. I may not get it, but I'll have the option to do so...at the very least I will be getting some additional content to explore pro bono, which is nice...gift horse n all...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Agree with the poster that spoke about dev resources/allocation/multiple levels of effort...right on the money there...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And to all the ones crying poor-mouth...if you can't afford your evercrack addiction, work harder/smarter and get paid more...or stop playing....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>geez..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Ferondia you are an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. People like you should have their mouths sewn shut and their fingers super glued together. Please do all us a favor and go away. <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Ellyana on <SPAN class=date_text>01-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:54 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Why? Because you say so? I hardly think that's going to make me do much of anything.</P> <P>I stated a very realistic point of view...you must be one of the tantrum throwers, or childish actings, or poor-mouth crying people...</P> <P>I guess you've never had to buy a new car and fiddle with the options to get the price where you like, or configure a new pc, or bargain shop between name brands... it's all options and what-you-want price modelling... get over it and quit whining...</P> <P> </P> <P>mouth sewn shut and fingers super-glued indeed....<BR></P>

Ellya
01-08-2005, 02:03 AM
:smileyindifferent:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> patimen wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ellyana wrote:<BR> <BR> Ferondia you are an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. People like you should have their mouths sewn shut and their fingers super glued together. Please do all us a favor and go away. <P>Message Edited by Ellyana on <SPAN class=date_text>01-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:54 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Great argument there. Very compelling.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pain Divine wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ellyana wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Ferondia you are an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. People like you should have their mouths sewn shut and their fingers super glued together. Please do all us a favor and go away. <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Ellyana on <SPAN class=date_text>01-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:54 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>While I can understand your frustraition... I can't understand your choice of words. Thanks for getting this thread locked on us.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Wait a sec Ferondia calls us </P> <P><EM>stingy, the childish, the cheapskates, the whiners.  </EM></P> <P>and then says</P> <P><EM>And to all the ones crying poor-mouth...if you can't afford your evercrack addiction, work harder/smarter and get paid more...or stop playing....</EM></P> <P>And Im the one who gets scolded? </P> <P><EM><BR> </P></EM> </FONT><p>Message Edited by Ellyana on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:04 PM</span>

patim
01-08-2005, 02:05 AM
<DIV>The difference, Ellyana, is that at least he made some kind of argument. All you could manage was an insult! </DIV>

Lathspell
01-08-2005, 02:07 AM
<DIV>I love how everyone is so reactionary on the boards. If you had read the article they stated it was something they were working on (as in it isnt coming out tomorrow) and that everyone will have access to the zones and it is optional content, no one says you have to buy it, but if you do you get some extra quests and story lines to follow, which in my opinion is a good thing.  Moor also said that they will still be adding in regular content and patches as they have been so it is all in all just a  mini-expansion.  I have no problem with people venting about being upset about it, but to then come back and attack people for their viewpoints when you don't agree with them is just rude.  At least that is my opinion, I bet when they make the full announcement about the adventure packs that people will have all new things to complain about.  That is the nature of most forums, more people complain on these (and other game) forums than on any other forums I belong to.  SO in conclusion, I feel everyone just needs to step back, take a deep breath, maybe go outside, and relax.</DIV>

Ellya
01-08-2005, 02:08 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> patimen wrote:<BR> <DIV>The difference, Ellyana, is that at least he made some kind of argument. All you could manage was an insult! </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> There was no constructive argument there. Only insults and more of the "if you dont like it, tough" mentality.  And how are your posts to me about my post adding to this discussion?

Jeridor
01-08-2005, 02:08 AM
<DIV>Er, he had an argument? Seems to me all he said was you're dumb stop whining, you're dumb stop whining, you're dumb stop whining, and you're dumb stop whining. And if you don't like it go away [because EQ2 doesn't rely on your money, right?].  Oh yeah and you're dumb stop whining.</DIV>

Malifest
01-08-2005, 02:08 AM
<P>Yah I pay a monthly fee for there time, bandwidth, bug fixes, content, etc.  I don't agree that paying a one time fee or a monthly fee for 'special' items, quests, zones etc is very cool.  I don't need this game.  Yes I enjoy playing it, but even though I make a decent living the game is very expensive when you look at other games or things to do out there.  </P> <P>I play the game to get away from the world and to enjoy a new world.  Running around with a special sword, horse, doing a quest or zone I had to pay extra for just reminds me even more that 'this is not real'.  If more and more 'cool' items, quests and what have you are continued to be developed with this thinking, I'll just walk away.</P> <P>Same way I walked away after the 1st expansion in EQ1 when they added up to lvl 60.  I did the math on the exp needed and the time to get 60 and the reward and it wasn't worth it anymore to play.  I had enough INT, the spells I got for leveling pretty much sucked, and I only would be getting a level every month or so.</P> <P>Games are supposed to be fun to play first, then affordable next.  With bugs, it's less fun, with poor customer service, less fun, with monthly fees, less affordable, with one time hits on your CC for an item/quest/zone etc, less affordable.  See a trend.  You are loosing customers patience SOE.  Wake up and snap out of it.  You got less subscribers then you had thought you would and your continueing to do things that are irresponsible and [Removed for Content] off the customers.  It would be highly adviseable to give them things they want to keep them, and do things to steal customers from WoW.</P> <P>I'd hate to leave, but your almost forcing my hand.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LoofLirpa wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hmmmm, its not hard to see how SOE rationalized this as a viable idea... Software sales + web-access goodies + subscriptions is not grossing them enough revenue.  What else can SOE sell for additional revenue?  Quests which are entirely "optional" but grant a reward which is so irresistable that the hard core players have no problem buying for $5.  How many people do you know would galdly pay a bit of cash to one-up a buddy?......In order for the Smiths to keep up with the Jones' the other peeps are "forced" to buy the Quest.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I don't like the idea of playing the fool but I could see myself getting sucked into this ploy.  (Im bought OMENS for an extra spell slot....).  But what happenes when they start selling bonus gear for 5.00$?  A special sword for $2.50?  A super-fast silver horse for $.99 a month?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like [email protected] and fully understand SOE's desire to make money but I think they have to they have to be careful about "how" they make it.   Please don't stoop to underhanded money making schemes that inevitably will lose you more money in the end or, of course, there will be no more EQ</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And fix the current bugs first please before you do anything else..........</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

LoofLirpa
01-08-2005, 02:08 AM
<DIV>Ferondia, I completely understand your point of view.  You're exactly right.  The unfortunate reality is that some people will leave over this "strategy"......because as you have said..."They can".   How is that good for SOE or the players? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whining?  Do we or do we not have the right to criticize, make suggestions, vent our frustrations......  Ask SOE if they would rather us complain or leave?  When SOE says "please leave" I will.  This is an extremely health exercise for everyone involved.  If you find the negative tone of this thread uncomfortable may I suggest that you stop whining about our whining and leave.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Malifest
01-08-2005, 02:09 AM
<P>Removed content because it was multiposted...</P><p>Message Edited by Malifestro on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:12 PM</span>

patim
01-08-2005, 02:10 AM
<DIV>Ellyana, what do you think of this idea? Do you think this will take away resources from other development? Give advatages to those willing to spend more money? You obviously dislike the idea (or maybe not!). How about you tell us?</DIV>

Saeldar
01-08-2005, 02:10 AM
<blockquote><hr>Bolanos wrote:<DIV>So Moorgard, let me see if I got this right.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>You guys are sitting there, putting time into this mini expansion, because in all simple and realistic ways, what you are discribing is a mini expansion, Instead of working on fixing the bugs and issues with the current game that is live? You haven't fixed the problems we're having with crafting, you haven't fixed the lag issue some of us are having, you haven't fixed most of the bugs introduced with the new patch, and on top of all, you haven't even LOOKED at fixing the issues with the Nvidia 6800 cards which according to you guys its "the way it was meant to be played"! </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>How about putting all of that manpower behind fixing the stupid game first before you start working/releasing expansions!</DIV><hr></blockquote>Why not put all the manpower behind first? Because the person who creates the geometry needed to make a new zone, or the person that populates a zone with mobs probably have very little if not absolutly no knowledge about issues relating to the Nvidia 6800. They might not have any knowledge of how tradeskills works.WAKE UP PEOPLE...noone on the eq 2 team is knowledgeable about every single aspect of the game...ok there's bugs and problems with the game right now...do you think the texture artist and zone designers should just sit down and do nothing until all the bugs are fixed? No they can produce new content while other member of the team fix the bugs...and that's what they are doing. Having 75 people fixing the same problems wouldn't solve anything.Just wake up...they have a team fixing game issues...and they have another team working on adventure packs, on expansions etc...

Verst
01-08-2005, 02:12 AM
<blockquote><hr>Maleador wrote:<DIV>I don't want to be nickle and dimed for everything. Just do a normal $30.00 full expansion once a year.</DIV><hr></blockquote>I totally agree with that.All my friends and I are using EQ2 as a stepping stone for Vanguard: SOH. For those who know what I'm talking about, you know in your heart Aradune will get it right. The best way to revolt against being nickled and dimed is to not pay for the piddly stuff and/or move on.

Jeridor
01-08-2005, 02:19 AM
<DIV><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>I love how everyone is so reactionary on the boards. If you had read the article they stated it was something they were working on (as in it isnt coming out tomorrow) and that everyone will have access to the zones and it is optional content, no one says you have to buy it, but if you do you get some extra quests and story lines to follow, which in my opinion is a good thing.</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think if you read these posts more carefully you will find that the posters generally understand the concept of the adventure packs completely.  In fact, you'll probably find that their complaint isn't even about the adventure packs, it's about some side-effect they believe their release will have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>Moor also said that they will still be adding in regular content and patches as they have been so it is all in all just a  mini-expansion.</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>Yes but that blanket statement is vague and people are upset.  They want something more specific.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>I have no problem with people venting about being upset about it, but to then come back and attack people for their viewpoints when you don't agree with them is just rude.</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Attacking people is completely unnecessary, but there hasn't been many attacks. There's been some sarcasm and some "serious joking" about the pricing model, but the only attacking I've seen actually began when someone who *does* agree with the viewpoints of SOE attacked those who don't.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>At least that is my opinion, I bet when they make the full announcement about the adventure packs that people will have all new things to complain about.  That is the nature of most forums, more people complain on these (and other game) forums than on any other forums I belong to.</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We have a situation where people are investing hundreds of hours into a product which can change at will, often undermining the goals set during those hundreds of hours of work.  It would be likened to working on a masterpiece sculpture of marble only to be told a month into the project that instead you'll need to carve it out of wood.  The parameters of the game change and when they change in a way deemed unfavorable, people feel a need to complain.  You seem to understand this need to complain so I don't follow why you are surprised it's occuring or feel it shouldn't occur.  I don't know what other forums you visit, but it seems likely that comparing them to a gaming forum for an online community game would be apples and oranges, if not SUV's and oranges.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>SO in conclusion, I feel everyone just needs to step back, take a deep breath, maybe go outside, and relax.</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't think suggesting ways people can spend their time non-gaming since they're not pleased with the game will help anyone. I don't think you made the statement intending to actually help anyone, either.  These people are not upset because they're overreacting.  They're upset because they have complaints and don't feel they are being heard.</DIV>

JoNa
01-08-2005, 02:20 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Verstat wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maleador wrote:<BR> <DIV>I don't want to be nickle and dimed for everything. Just do a normal $30.00 full expansion once a year.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>I totally agree with that.<BR><BR>All my friends and I are using EQ2 as a stepping stone for Vanguard: SOH. For those who know what I'm talking about, you know in your heart Aradune will get it right. The best way to revolt against being nickled and dimed is to not pay for the piddly stuff and/or move on.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Vanguard will rock, it can't come soon enough as far as I am concerned.<BR>

Ellya
01-08-2005, 02:21 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> patimen wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ellyana, what do you think of this idea? Do you think this will take away resources from other development? Give advatages to those willing to spend more money? You obviously dislike the idea (or maybe not!). How about you tell us?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#cccccc>Do you think this will take away resources from other development?</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Of course it will. If SOE can make money from selling these "adventure packs" which contain all the Fun and Exciting content then why would invest anything but token support/resources for the  "Non-Premium" for which they get no added income?(other than the monthly fee)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#cccccc>Give advatages to those willing to spend more money?</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Again, of course it will. How do you maintain a "balanced" game where some of the players can BUY advantages?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes I dislike this idea. I think SOE is squeezing us finacialy here and there for the FUN and CONTENT (which the game sorely lacks in some places) that this games needs to make it enjoyable. Where is it gonna end? I am shocked that we're arent billed by the hour. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Pain Divine
01-08-2005, 02:21 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ellyana wrote:<BR> <P><BR>Wait a sec Ferondia calls us </P> <P><EM>stingy, the childish, the cheapskates, the whiners.  </EM></P> <P>and then says</P> <P><EM>And to all the ones crying poor-mouth...if you can't afford your evercrack addiction, work harder/smarter and get paid more...or stop playing....</EM></P> <P>And Im the one who gets scolded? </P> <P> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE>Because you made a personal attack on an individual and used profanity. Ferondia made a general statement about those of us complaining. Basically Ferondia laid some bait and you jumped on it. As a result this thread is nothing but bickering now. What was the topic again?<BR>

Jeridor
01-08-2005, 02:25 AM
<DIV>Valderen:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your points are valid except that in SOE has a limited budget. They could allocate less budget to people who build zones or populate them and/or quest builders, and allocate more to those who can fix various system problems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are several possible reasons why we may be seeing more zone stuff and quest stuff coming in, and I recognize that.  Maybe there are simply more qualified people for one job or another, despite where they are willing to shift money.  Maybe it's just simply much less work and can be completed faster.  But these are not the things we're hearing from SOE.  All we are hearing is that they intend to fix bugs, and occasionally specifics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My actual complaint with EQ2 is balance.  I think the product is horribly balanced.  The reason I am not pleased about the release of these adventure packs is because despite whatever reality may or may not be, the perception I have is that SOE is building a lovely building on a crumbling foundation.  Furthermore, they seem to feel confident in their foundation, while I feel very much contrary to that perception.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Jeridor on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:26 PM</span>

Ellya
01-08-2005, 02:25 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pain Divine wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ellyana wrote:<BR> <P><BR>Wait a sec Ferondia calls us </P> <P><EM>stingy, the childish, the cheapskates, the whiners.  </EM></P> <P>and then says</P> <P><EM>And to all the ones crying poor-mouth...if you can't afford your evercrack addiction, work harder/smarter and get paid more...or stop playing....</EM></P> <P>And Im the one who gets scolded? </P> <P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE>Because you made a personal attack on an individual and used profanity. Ferondia made a general statement about those of us complaining. Basically Ferondia laid some bait and you jumped on it. As a result this thread is nothing but bickering now. What was the topic again?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I found what he said to be a personal attack. I see such statements go unchecked and uncensored all over these boards and Im tired of being insulted because I dont  smile and say "more please" everytime SOE does something like this.</P> <P>How concerned are you about staying on topic? Noone asked you to respond to my posts? You felt the need to say  something and you did.. so did I.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Ellyana on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:29 PM</span>

SkySava
01-08-2005, 02:34 AM
<DIV>I kinda agree. I do like this game but until the Devs prove that they deserve more of my money I'll level and then quit. I won't pay them jsut because "It's EQ2". I'd just as soon leave the Everquest franchise and start fresh with WoW or DDO if they don't start treating customers like they are thankful to us for playing thier game. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Expansion packs were good for me in EQ1 because they gave major game changes and a ton of new contect. It was worth the $30 - $40 they would charge. But $5 just to get quest content and the loot drops/quest rewards sucks. It's just like buying items for real world money. I take it back. I'd pay for it happily if they didn't already charge me $15 a month as it is. This is starting to look like a way to roll a Legends server into Live. Speaking of which, what does the $15 a month per player go to anywyas?! I know maintaining servers doesn't cost the entire sum because I work in that industry. Now, keeping people on staff to create new and exciting content, fix bugs, and have good customer service... THAT'S what it's supposed to be for. But having to pay more for it now... I don't know. It just doesn't seem right. Oh well. We'll see how they do it and hopefully I can stay in the game I started with instead of moving to a new franchise. Here's to hoping this doesn't hurt. </DIV>

egofalt
01-08-2005, 02:39 AM
<DIV>SOE, you try to pull this nonsense and I'll happily turn my business towards your competition.</DIV><p>Message Edited by egofalter on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:39 PM</span>

patim
01-08-2005, 02:39 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ellyana wrote:<BR><BR><BR> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#cccccc>Do you think this will take away resources from other development?</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Of course it will. If SOE can make money from selling these "adventure packs" which contain all the Fun and Exciting content then why would invest anything but token support/resources for the  "Non-Premium" for which they get no added income?(other than the monthly fee)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#cccccc>Give advatages to those willing to spend more money?</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Again, of course it will. How do you maintain a "balanced" game where some of the players can BUY advantages?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes I dislike this idea. I think SOE is squeezing us finacialy here and there for the FUN and CONTENT (which the game sorely lacks in some places) that this games needs to make it enjoyable. Where is it gonna end? I am shocked that we're arent billed by the hour. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>OK, now we're getting somewhere:</DIV> <DIV>I really think the difference here is like a buffet restaraunt vs. a sit down one with a menu. At a buffet style you pay one price and get as much as you can eat. But unless you are prepared to pay a LOT for the buffet, it's mostly mediocre food at best. But it can be really nice not to have to worry about paying for every little thing you eat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A sit down restaraunt is different. There you look at a bunch of options and choose the set that appeals to you. You do have to pay for everything individually, including your drink, desert, and often your soup or salad. I find, however, that the food is a bit better, often a LOT better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now you may say that SOE is double dipping here, charging both a buffet style and an individual item charge. I've noticed Fresh Choice doing this too. Maybe it will go over well, maybe not. But I'm kinda hoping for something better than buffet style food. If they can keep the buffet pretty good and offer some premium items for the people who want a little chicken with their salad, I don't see the harm. The key part is if they keep the buffet pretty good, or good enough to justify the buffet cost. I understand your doubt, but they do have a LOT of competition this time, so I'm hopeful. If they don't keep it up, I'm sure many of us will look elsewhere. Heck, Anarchy Online is offering the buffet for free, hoping they can get people ONLY on the premium items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></FONT>

Markusda
01-08-2005, 02:44 AM
<DIV>Since some people don't seem to be catching the gist of my argument against this, I'll explain it in more detail.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First, I understand that there will be other content released in the game - just as there was from this last, big patch - as well as the 'entry areas' for the adventure packs will be available to all.  My complaint is that the content that has been released to date has been very 'bare bones'.  There is no meat to them.  All of the quests are extremely episodic with absolutely no impact upon the game in any fashion.  "Kill 10 bog sludges - get a shield." and that's the last you hear from him.  There is no sense of purpose or any real discovery in the game.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The description of these adventure packs sounds exactly what this game is currently lacking.  Other MMO's offer developing storylines and immersive plots as part of their service already.  I believe CoH just released a whole new story arc, 2 new 'class branches' and dozens of quests and new opponents and this was a free publish.  This is what part of the monthly fee is to go to.  Now expansion packs require an actual purchase price because the development of them involve a great deal more programming - they are literally updating the code to fit the material in the expansion pack and not just adding new stories and areas.  The idea that I will need to pay extra money to finish an immersive and 'meaty' storyline would be akin to watching Star Wars and as soon as the Rebels launched for the Death Star, they turned off the movie and asked for another 3 bucks.  Other MMO's let you watch the movie in its entirety.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is the complaint I have.  SOE is charging for what others offer for free and is expected as free from a company charging a monthly rate.  </DIV>

kerev
01-08-2005, 02:47 AM
<DIV>I guess what will do it for me for the adventure packs is how well the stories are implemented and how much they make me feel like part of the world.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So far, I've felt that EQlive and EQ2 only give you enough story to sell the product.  They don't seem to have much in the way of underlying themes that pull quests, etc together.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I want a "Druid" adventure pack that introduces a Druid sect and zone to the world that Druids and others who wish to heal Norrath can go to and start adventures from.  I want the renewed League of Antonican bards pulling themselves back together again and rebuilding their spy network.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I DON'T want a bunch of NPC's in adventurer camps saying "Hey,  we just rediscovered this ancient race. Please go wipe them out.'  And then giving me two lines of backstory for every 5 quests I do. </DIV>

Ellya
01-08-2005, 02:49 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> patimen wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ellyana wrote:<BR><BR><BR> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#cccccc>Do you think this will take away resources from other development?</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Of course it will. If SOE can make money from selling these "adventure packs" which contain all the Fun and Exciting content then why would invest anything but token support/resources for the  "Non-Premium" for which they get no added income?(other than the monthly fee)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#cccccc>Give advatages to those willing to spend more money?</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Again, of course it will. How do you maintain a "balanced" game where some of the players can BUY advantages?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes I dislike this idea. I think SOE is squeezing us finacialy here and there for the FUN and CONTENT (which the game sorely lacks in some places) that this games needs to make it enjoyable. Where is it gonna end? I am shocked that we're arent billed by the hour. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>OK, now we're getting somewhere:</DIV> <DIV>I really think the difference here is like a buffet restaraunt vs. a sit down one with a menu. At a buffet style you pay one price and get as much as you can eat. But unless you are prepared to pay a LOT for the buffet, it's mostly mediocre food at best. But it can be really nice not to have to worry about paying for every little thing you eat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A sit down restaraunt is different. There you look at a bunch of options and choose the set that appeals to you. You do have to pay for everything individually, including your drink, desert, and often your soup or salad. I find, however, that the food is a bit better, often a LOT better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now you may say that SOE is double dipping here, charging both a buffet style and an individual item charge. I've noticed Fresh Choice doing this too. Maybe it will go over well, maybe not. But I'm kinda hoping for something better than buffet style food. If they can keep the buffet pretty good and offer some premium items for the people who want a little chicken with their salad, I don't see the harm. The key part is if they keep the buffet pretty good, or good enough to justify the buffet cost. I understand your doubt, but they do have a LOT of competition this time, so I'm hopeful. If they don't keep it up, I'm sure many of us will look elsewhere. Heck, Anarchy Online is offering the buffet for free, hoping they can get people ONLY on the premium items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></FONT><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>If they planed to do this buffet style structure it should have been disclosed up front. None of us expected to be  "penny and dimed" like this. To spring this "Pay for Pack"  on us in this manner is very shadey.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As I stated in another thread on this topic, 15$ monthly fee, 3$ for the eq2players, 21.99$ if you want 8 character slots. Now this. Can you see the trend? Next we'll have subscription rates by the hour, Epics 19.95$. EQplayers.com will start selling platinum and Power leveling services.</DIV>

Clandor
01-08-2005, 02:55 AM
Geese, I wish people would stop with the fix the bugs first....Can't you all get it through your heads, SOE have completely different teams working on code maintenance and new content. The people working on new content do not fix bugs. The people that fix bugs do not work on new content.

Ellya
01-08-2005, 02:57 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Clandor wrote:<BR>Geese, I wish people would stop with the fix the bugs first....<BR><BR>Can't you all get it through your heads, SOE have completely different teams working on code maintenance and new content. The people working on new content do not fix bugs. The people that fix bugs do not work on new content.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>If they took some of the people from the "new content" and had them help those working on fixes  we might not be having the same old bugs we've had since before beta ended.</P> <P> </P>

SkySava
01-08-2005, 03:00 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ferondia wrote:<BR> <DIV>Man, you can really tell the stingy, the childish, the cheapskates, the whiners, the the the's when something like this comes along.</DIV> <DIV>First and foremost, this is their game, you don't like their pricing model then stop playing/paying.</DIV> <DIV>More importantly, this is the future of these type of games, so get used to it.</DIV> <DIV>They employ a great deal of people to add all these extras...and you have to pay for em.</DIV> <DIV>When you go buy a car they don't just give you the leather and superior sound system for free..they are OPTIONS...that cost EXTRA...</DIV> <DIV>Same thing with a biggie fry and a drink...it's EXTRA...</DIV> <DIV>Everything is like that...generic can o beans, or name brand can o beans...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Geezus, quit whining...either pay or don't, stop being children...stomping your feet and throwing a tantrum isn't going to do anything to motivate them to change anything...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I for one think the added option is a nice thing.. I may not get it, but I'll have the option to do so...at the very least I will be getting some additional content to explore pro bono, which is nice...gift horse n all...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Agree with the poster that spoke about dev resources/allocation/multiple levels of effort...right on the money there...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And to all the ones crying poor-mouth...if you can't afford your evercrack addiction, work harder/smarter and get paid more...or stop playing....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>geez..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Is this poster forggeting that we already pay $15 a month? I don't keep paying McDonalds for my fries nor do I keep paying for leather seats in my car after I've bought it. The bottom line is, EQ2 is fun for awhile. But once I finish the stuff I am paying $15 a month for (The inital game), if they don't have a full fledged expansion for me (AKA EQ2.1)  then I'll just head over to my next game. I don't have to be with a game for years. I only buy things that I like to play. </P> <P> </P> <P>Let's see... Pay SOE for 10 "extra" storylines for a total of $50 or go out and buy WoW with a million new storylines? Hrm... easy one there. I'm excited now to finsih off EQ2 and start up some new content (along with my $15 subcription fee) in another game. WOOT!</FONT> </P>

Clandor
01-08-2005, 03:03 AM
They are different teams. You just can't transfer people out of the jobs they were hired to do and tell them, well, you are going to do this now. It is just not that easy. Are you going to tell your graphic artists, you guys are going to have to hold up on your projects while we have your coders move over to maintenance. NO.. You can't do that. These people work as a team and if you begin moving around team members the whole thing will stop working..

patim
01-08-2005, 03:04 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ellyana wrote:<BR><BR><BR> <DIV>If they planed to do this buffet style structure it should have been disclosed up front. None of us expected to be  "penny and dimed" like this. To spring this "Pay for Pack"  on us in this manner is very shadey.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As I stated in another thread on this topic, 15$ monthly fee, 3$ for the eq2players, 21.99$ if you want 8 character slots. Now this. Can you see the trend? Next we'll have subscription rates by the hour, Epics 19.95$. EQplayers.com will start selling platinum and Power leveling services.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You know, I think I probably haven't felt this since I play Planetside as well as EQ1. Thus, EQ2 was basically the cost of the game to me, and I got the 8 character slots for free too. So to me, I've gotten all of this at no additional monthly cost for me. No wonder I'm sanguine.</P> <P>That said, I hope they don't make everything nickle and dime, and I don't think they will. They'll try this new idea out, see the response and plan accordingly. But again, if they don't make the basic product competitive, there is a TON of alternatives right now. They screw up too badly, they'll lose my whole $21.99 and I'll go try other MMO's. They do well, I'll be happy. We just need to see what happens, what kind of new content they provide and hope they are keeping the LONG TERM in mind, not just a few quick bucks soon.<BR></P>

Sebastien
01-08-2005, 03:23 AM
That all sounds very cool Moorgard. As SOE works on ironing out the "kinks" I know my friends and I are certainly looking forward to content like this. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Malifest
01-08-2005, 03:35 AM
<P>Hahahah.. If that was the case that might explain a few things!  We got a bunch of bug fixes, and new content with a bunch of bugs. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I sware we got just as many bugs as were fixed!  And what's with the lack of information on the skills/traits.  Sooooo many people made the wrong choice and want to change it because they failed to give us enough information to make an informed choice.  This is typical however.  They did code the game to allow you to pick this little tiny button called 'destroy' instead of 'select' for money and blow it all away without a confirmation screen!  That still pisses me off, and they saw my logs and wouldn't give it back.  [Removed for Content].</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Clandor wrote:<BR>Geese, I wish people would stop with the fix the bugs first....<BR><BR>Can't you all get it through your heads, SOE have completely different teams working on code maintenance and new content. The people working on new content do not fix bugs. The people that fix bugs do not work on new content.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

Loq
01-08-2005, 03:39 AM
<DIV>I have the same respnse to people like Ferondia here as I do in-game...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/ignore</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Saves a lot of bandwidth. I don't need someone telling me to love it or leave it. Please. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My only beef is that SOE ABSOLUTELY should have made it clear that this was going to be an a-la-carte game before I plunked down my cash for the DVD's and spent 100's of hours working up my characters. That is just wrong. If I had known that, I might have chosen a different game to play. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not because I can't afford it, or because they have no right to set up their game however they want, but because I just simply think that a pay-more-get-more atmosphere is NOT where I want to spend my time, and they never made it clear that was what EQ2 was going to be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But, they are changing the rules as their whims lead them. The way I see it, people who have a problem with this move (And there are obviously a lot who do...) have some choices.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Get over it and move on with our lives.</DIV> <DIV>2. Quit the game because we find the random pricing structure changes to be wrong.</DIV> <DIV>3. Let SOE know we dislike this tactic, in hopes they will change their minds and give us the content as PART of that bill we pay every month.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm leaning towards 3, as I DO love the game, but think this is a shady move. Don't want to leave, but I will if I feel I'm not getting the game I thought I was already paying for.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Loqi</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Xenor
01-08-2005, 03:42 AM
<blockquote><hr>Loqii wrote:<DIV>I don't think it is a terrible idea... I mean, they can come up with whatever business model they want. If people buy it, it is successful. If people don't buy it, they will call it off.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>What really, really bothers me is that this business model was not disclosed when I bought the game. I think it is really innapropriate to just start making up pricing schemes for content AFTER I have already agreed to pay x dollars a month. (And assuming a big update will come out every so often I will have to shell out for)</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Nobody will be "forced" to buy these mini-updates, but they will buy them. Because they are invested in the game. Because that is the way the game is designed.... It's like crack cocaine for ne D&D crowd. It seems really sleazy, and disrespectful to the player base to me. Like a drug dealer offering the first one free, then you are hooked and have to shell out the $$$.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Shame on you SOE.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>-Loqi</DIV><hr></blockquote>this is pretty much how i feel on the issue - this type of buisness model Could be very successful, but it all depends on how much they charge, and what exatly we are getting for it. I personally Greatly dislike paying for things piece by piece. i would much rather pay another 2$ a month and have this type of story-based mini-expansion released as they will be.who knows, they might just do that.at the very least, however, it is disrespectfull to the playerbase to spring this type of decision on us.<p>Message Edited by Xenoror on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:45 PM</span>

Dewfi
01-08-2005, 03:45 AM
<blockquote><hr>jalberthsd2 wrote:<DIV>I thought that we were paying a MONTHLY FEE for this kind of stuff. If they are going to start charging us for updates then they need to stop charging a monthly fee. This is really getting out of hand. Next we're going to be paying to level up.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Ditto...I thought the $$$ a month we were putting down were for these additions...next thing we know in EQ3 they are going to add to our monthly fee for house rent and storage...

Cheird
01-08-2005, 03:50 AM
<blockquote><hr>sleepyjoe wrote:As one with 3X lvl 40 artisan .. hmm, not really ... 2X and one 39 artisans, I am really feeling this is a pay-to-play beta test for tradeskills. There are numerous bugs unfixed.The notorious iron ring that could kill an armoror on a grey recipe, and would only need a change in text field, is not fixed.Millions of missing recipe icons like "Refined Elm" as to "Elm Lumber", which requires someone with minimum wages to work 4 hours, is not fixed.And the new expansion is coming?Oh, they broke the /togglebags with the new patch too. This is kinda frustrating.<hr></blockquote>I've seen the "pay-to-play beta" used a lot over the last few weeks on here and at first I just thought it was hyperbole from frustrated players. But the more I play the game the more I think there is a large grain of truth to this assessment. I've gotten one character to 20, and another to 16 as well as at least getting my two other characters to their respective cities. Everyone's armor, weapons, spells, songs and skills seem to be exactly like everyone else in the same class at the same level. It sounds an awfully lot like we're going to be expected to pay for content that should have been included in the game before it was released from beta. Right now I feel like I'm playing EQ-Lite but with better graphics. I talked two friends into playing the game when it came out and I even bought one of them the game for a birthday gift, so I've got a lot of money personally vested in the game in hopes it would be complete and fun. The friend that never played EQ1 is happy with the game as it is so far since he doesn't know anything else, but the friend that played EQ1 (as I did) is not happy with the $$$ for additional character slots and the nickel and diming in general.

Bolanos
01-08-2005, 03:56 AM
<FONT color=#ff0033></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> </P> <P>Valderen wrote:<BR><BR><BR>Why not put all the manpower behind first? Because the person who creates the geometry needed to make a new zone, or the person that populates a zone with mobs probably have very little if not absolutly no knowledge about issues relating to the Nvidia 6800. They might not have any knowledge of how tradeskills works.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0033>And without these people here, the people who have the knowledge of the Nvidia 6800 issues and other issues don't have the knowledge of correcting anything or seeing IF it's an issue with the geometry of a zone/zone's, ect.  </FONT></P> <P>WAKE UP PEOPLE...noone on the eq 2 team is knowledgeable about every single aspect of the game...ok there's bugs and problems with the game right now...do you think the texture artist and zone designers should just sit down and do nothing until all the bugs are fixed? <BR></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>No, but the texture artist and the zone designer's are still having problem's with the main game, texture's might be causing lag, zone's that might be causing memory leaks.  Several times I have run through and find nodes within a wire-box, I can't harvest it, say's it's to far away, yet it's there and inside a wire box with white all around it, like a cut and paste kind of thing.  They should be fixing this bug instead of working on another expansion with bugs!</FONT></P> <P><BR>No they can produce new content while other member of the team fix the bugs...and that's what they are doing. Having 75 people fixing the same problems wouldn't solve anything.<BR></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>You can't honestly look at me straight in the face and tell me that they are fixing bugs!  Just the fact that they can come out with a hole new expansion faster then they can fix a problem with the flagship card from the manufacture that they advertise for us to buy if we want to play the game the 'way it was made to be played" is complete and utter BS.  We have tradeskill issue's that haven't been touched and yet in one day they manage to change ALL the prices for vendor sold trade skill items!  They can't fix the stuttering or the lag but they can add TWO new zones!  They can't fix the 40+ game yet they can make the mobs do more damage when grouped and remove loot from certain mobs??  They can't get the stupid griffons to stop dropping you on the ground instead of the platform or stop the issue's of black screen's when riding the griffon yet they can come out with a hole entire expansion!  Please, YOU WAKE UP!  They're doing the same thing they did in SWG.  Every time people start leaving they introduced a new zone.  When the masses started leaving they opened up Jedi to keep people in, as broken and as horrible the class was, they released it to keep people in.  It's been over a year and the professions are still crying for the SAME fixes as we where when I was there in day ONE!  This is just another freaking repeat of that!  So please, YOU wake up.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033></FONT><BR>Just wake up...they have a team fixing game issues...and they have another team working on adventure packs, on expansions etc...<BR></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>The only team I can think of that they have working on fixing game issues/bugs, it's a team of high school drop outs that don't know the first thing about big fixes.  And in their attempt to fix the 6800 stutter issue, all they did was make it worse for us and gave the stutter to the x800 cards as well.  Yea, where is that team?  I can't imagine it taking this long to isolate the problem with the cards and fixing it, in other words, they DON'T have ANYONE looking into this at ALL!</FONT></P> <P> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033></FONT> </DIV>

twolf
01-08-2005, 04:02 AM
<DIV>I Kinda like the way SOE si going with this...time will tell, and remember, as each of the adventure packs come out, they will give us a sample for free to see if you would like to buy it.  great idea in my opinion....and since ill be getting the adventure packs included with my station pass fee...i love it even more!</DIV>

Bolanos
01-08-2005, 04:08 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Clandor wrote:<BR>Geese, I wish people would stop with the fix the bugs first....<BR><BR>Can't you all get it through your heads, SOE have completely different teams working on code maintenance and new content. The people working on new content do not fix bugs. The people that fix bugs do not work on new content.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Yes, but for them to be coming out with a new expansion soon while they still can't get the stupid bugs fixed leads us all to believe that they have, given the benefit of the doubt, ONE PERSON working on bugs!

BraveBulgo
01-08-2005, 04:31 AM
<blockquote><hr>egofalter wrote:<DIV></div><DIV>SOE, you try to pull this nonsense and I'll happily turn my business towards your competition.</div><hr></blockquote>Funny you should mention that. I spent a lot of time last night checking out WoW's forums to get a feel for how folks over there liked that game. And I was extremely surprised to find out there were not one or two but four or five RP servers there.I won't stay around and get nickle & dimed by SOE. I have friends here from other games and it'll pain me to leave them should they choose to stay (everyone's got a lot of thinking to do now after this stuff) but it's the principle of the matter. $5 extra for 'adventure packs' won't break me, but I shouldn't have to be paying it in the first place. $30 or $40 a year for expansions I wouldn't mind and had anticipated, but not this nickle & dime stuff with the character slots and now the adventure packs. After that it'll be "high level Guardian content for only $6 more!" or "you and your friends can now use crystals to move around Norrath faster for only $3 more!" and it'll just keep going. Turns my stomach.I've still got my CoH account open. This week they released Issue 3... two new character archetypes and a big bunch of additional content. All included in the price we already pay per month there. And their Devs actually interact with the customer base daily and discuss issues and concerns. Here we get thread closings. Will I go to WoW? I'll at least try it out and see what it's like on their RP servers. I cannot imagine it could be any worse than EQ2 is right now.<p>Message Edited by BraveBulgo on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:32 PM</span>

Tomodac
01-08-2005, 04:39 AM
10$ says the first module 'unlocks' Frogloks.

Schadwe
01-08-2005, 04:42 AM
<blockquote><hr>Ellyana wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>patimen wrote:<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Ellyana wrote:<BR><BR><BR><DIV><EM><FONT color=#cccccc>Do you think this will take away resources from other development?</FONT></EM></DIV><DIV><EM></EM> </DIV><DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Of course it will. If SOE can make money from selling these "adventure packs" which contain all the Fun and Exciting content then why would invest anything but token support/resources for the "Non-Premium" for which they get no added income?(other than the monthly fee)</FONT></DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV><EM><FONT color=#cccccc>Give advatages to those willing to spend more money?</FONT></EM></DIV><DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV><DIV>Again, of course it will. How do you maintain a "balanced" game where some of the players can BUY advantages?</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Yes I dislike this idea. I think SOE is squeezing us finacialy here and there for the FUN and CONTENT (which the game sorely lacks in some places) that this games needs to make it enjoyable. Where is it gonna end? I am shocked that we're arent billed by the hour. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><DIV>OK, now we're getting somewhere:</DIV><DIV>I really think the difference here is like a buffet restaraunt vs. a sit down one with a menu. At a buffet style you pay one price and get as much as you can eat. But unless you are prepared to pay a LOT for the buffet, it's mostly mediocre food at best. But it can be really nice not to have to worry about paying for every little thing you eat.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>A sit down restaraunt is different. There you look at a bunch of options and choose the set that appeals to you. You do have to pay for everything individually, including your drink, desert, and often your soup or salad. I find, however, that the food is a bit better, often a LOT better.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Now you may say that SOE is double dipping here, charging both a buffet style and an individual item charge. I've noticed Fresh Choice doing this too. Maybe it will go over well, maybe not. But I'm kinda hoping for something better than buffet style food. If they can keep the buffet pretty good and offer some premium items for the people who want a little chicken with their salad, I don't see the harm. The key part is if they keep the buffet pretty good, or good enough to justify the buffet cost. I understand your doubt, but they do have a LOT of competition this time, so I'm hopeful. If they don't keep it up, I'm sure many of us will look elsewhere. Heck, Anarchy Online is offering the buffet for free, hoping they can get people ONLY on the premium items.</DIV><DIV> </DIV></FONT><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><DIV>If they planed to do this buffet style structure it should have been disclosed up front. None of us expected to be "penny and dimed" like this. To spring this "Pay for Pack" on us in this manner is very shadey.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>As I stated in another thread on this topic, 15$ monthly fee, 3$ for the eq2players, 21.99$ if you want 8 character slots. Now this. Can you see the trend? Next we'll have subscription rates by the hour, Epics 19.95$. EQplayers.com will start selling platinum and Power leveling services.</DIV><hr></blockquote>I agree...This sounds like someone's MBA-bright-idea. If they are going to charge us for added adventures, then they should lower our monthly cost. This whole idea will unbalance the players between the one's with money who can buy their power items (read: quests) and those who can't afford the extra (no matter how cheap) and so have gimpped characters. This will result in people not wanting to group with these gimped people (who will die often yielding xp debt) causing the one's without to quit. Nice way to maintain your player base, SOE.

Forsfy
01-08-2005, 04:46 AM
You know all the things I heard about Sony are true. I know you have to make money but this is all becoming a joke. I am cancelling now and playing CoH until WoW is released in Europe.SOE is not about gaming its all about making money.

Curati
01-08-2005, 05:00 AM
<DIV>"....you haven't fixed the lag "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>um...what lag?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i run 1.8ghz cempron</DIV> <DIV>1 gig of ram</DIV> <DIV>and some 128 meg video card nvidia i think</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>never any lag....ever</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>second:</DIV> <DIV>I have no problem whatsoever paying a "SMALL" fee for a new dungeon JUST MAKE IT GOOD and let me enter it at lvl 5 and alone if i want. If i pay for it i should be able to enter it whenever. Forget this access quest crap. If im newb enough to go innto a zone over my head then i deserve to lose my shard for 3 days...especialy if i paid someone to be able to do so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>third:</DIV> <DIV>It cracks me up the amount of whining in this thread..it really does. In the article it states that they have about 250 folks working on this game, thats aprox 12million dollars a year just to pay the employees! and that 250 employees to make 300,000+ people happy...befor you rant and scream ...sit back for a moment.... /bug the issue  your having.... take a breath and judt play the game or dont. Now Im not saying to not have a voice but I can read the lack of common sense in these posts and it makes me shack my head about how some of you even managed to install the game in the first place.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>fourth:</DIV> <DIV>Im done <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>Peace out</DIV> <DIV>Happy Friday!</DIV><p>Message Edited by Curative on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:11 PM</span>

Grisu
01-08-2005, 06:29 AM
First of all, i play on Innovation.I never noticed, they ever did anything with the bug reports.They fix every couple of weeks the prices, as if thats the most important bugs.The really bugs, everyone tells them every day are not fixed for at least two months.They PLAN to give us a gamemaster in february.I pay for that banana software and they want extra money for things, that are ( in my mind) included in my monthly fee.And that soe now needs 250 people to build an expansion pack, when the game still havent leave the beta,sorry, but i cant understand. I have preordered WoW and will reenter EQ2 again then 3 to 6 months later to see,if the game is then a game, not a beta. If i have to pay extra for every greater quest, then that was it, bye bye eq2.I pay for support and new content. I dont have support, that stands for the name, and i have bugged content, and shell pay extra for extra content. I feel like a money cow with soe. I will rest my account. Other smaller companys would have been wiped outfrom the players. They sold something, that is not the same they told it to be. They only brought it on market, hoping to get most players from WoW. Now i think, they do the best to push players to WoW. I played Asheron Call 1 (still the best), Asherons Call 2from beta on, Neocron, Eve, Anarchy online, but i never was made so angry and frustated in game as in EQ2. Its my free time, i wantto have fun, and want to relax from work. In EQ2, you simply have to craft some items you need, and you instantly feel like in work.Some people from soe must have misunderstood the word game. Best greetings and wishes from germany, bavariaBaumharz

Vaelaen
01-08-2005, 06:34 AM
<DIV>i would think that, as a company, soe should seriously consider what they are doing here. for every 1 person that posts on this site, there are probably 100 more that didnt post.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>get the game fixed, stop the "daily downtime", and listen to your customers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i really dont want to see eq2 fail. it has so much potential as a game that it isnt funny.</DIV>

Ibnithl
01-08-2005, 07:16 AM
I'm kind of appalled actually. No, not at the concept of the Adventure Packs, they are outlined thoroughly at:http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=news_announcements&message.id=90 The Adventure Packs sound pretty damned cool. Free gaming content with an option to buy and yet no commitment? It's an awesome deal for players.I don't get the whining, b*tching, and moaning. I'm fairly disgusted by it to be frank.Read the updated news on it from that Smedly dude, and I mean REALLY read it. If you can't tell that he (Smedley) truly DOES have both care & concern for the EQ2 community just by the words he has taken the careful time to choose to illustrate and underline the upcoming changes, then you must have run into my coercer who has somehow, mysteriously & permanently cast Stupefy upon you IRL. Smedley has been kind enough to share with the everyday average user the actual vision and direction in which EQ2 intends to journey. I for one am actually thinking of joining the test server just because of his letter. He has, in essence, invited us along with him so that we might be able to relax and worry less about game developments (it's not our job to worry about bugs & developments, but it does help that we report them & take interest), so that we may focus... and just enjoy the game.Oh, and in an attempt to curb the onslaught of hateful posts that I will surely be subjected to within moments, NO I do not work for SOE or anyone related to SOE or any subsidiary for that matter. I don't know anyone of them personally or via business either, I just respect hard work and the kindness they are showing by allowing us to be part of the informational loop.So just kick back, relax a bit, enjoy an antonican creamed coffee and a vulrich leg... but just play and have fun. To take it to such a level of critical severity that you would berate the developers and possibly discourage them is utterly ludicrous.Thank you for all of your hard work Smedley & Moorgard, et al. @ SOEIbnithl EQ1 / Illraeth EQ1 & EQ2 / Sylraeth EQ2 / Ibyn EQ2 & a few other characters<p>Message Edited by Ibnithl on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:25 PM</span>

Cutsha
01-08-2005, 10:33 AM
<DIV>Well, I guess this settles it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've been thinking the last few days why I'm still playing EQ2.  I alpha/beta'd "The Other Game" for a year, but ultimately chose this since I didn't want to get burned out  so quickly on "ToG" and basically waste my money.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  If I'd known 2 months ago this would be the strategy for EQ2 I wouldn't have bought it, probably wouldn't have even bought "ToG".  Glad I didn't buy that one too, what with their queues they had.  Boy, that would have [Removed for Content] me off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I've slowly gotten apprehensive to the whole MMORPG industry.  Guess I should have looked at how I reacted to SWG with more seriousness before buying EQ2.  Only played that game for 1 1/2 months.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Log in, "Ho hum...don't feel like playing.  It's the same old song and dance."  Log out 10 minutes after logging in and trying to motivate myself to play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sure everyone gets the first level of the adventure pack for free to try it out.  See if they want to buy the rest.  SOE may not be FORCING a player to buy the packs, but come on.  To stay competitive in these games you have to be on par with what's out there.  There's a feeling of obligation to most MMO players to get the best loot and drops.  To see and do the best of what has to be offered.  And when you don't or can't, you feel cheated, sub-standard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Without doubt the hard-core MMO-ers will happily pay for these packs and get their money's worth and have a blast.  But this move makes EQ2 even less apealing to the casual gamer.  There's that much more they can't or won't be able to do, now they feel even more cheated and sub-standard.  These games take time and dedication to play, which is possible for even a casual gamer to accomplish..albeit at a much slower and relaxed pace.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But there's a line.  At some point it's not dedication, loyalty, and support anymore for a game you love.  When that line is crossed players are strongarmed, oppressed, and manipulated.  That may not be the case in reality that SOE is attempting to accomplish here, but an already jaded and apprehensive audience is certainly lead into feeling this way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With recent duds over the last few years, the MMO industry is becoming more and more of a joke.  More and more people stop playing MMOs, finally disenchanted beyond hope.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And the sadest thing?  This industry is hanging itself.  Bit by bit, each fiasco is adding another strand to the rope that is becoming a noose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You might be wondering where I fall into all this:  hard-core or casual player?  Neither.  I would consider myself somewhere in the middle at the point where the line is blurred.  I spend as much time in the game as a hard-core player, but lack the fanatacism to be the best, to pwn the rest.  I guess I would call myself a "casual hard-core player."  I try to do the most and get the most of my monthly subscription but at my pace; which is somewhere behind the leading edge when I really enjoy a game and am motivated to play.  Usually within the top 30% of the population level-wise.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But to pay even more to stay there?  Pay more to feel like I've gotten my money's worth compared to what's out there?  Pay more to feel like I can still compete with the truly hard-core?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't have that kind of dedication.  I'm an avid gamer, sometimes fanatical, but not to the point of joining the KKK that SOE is becoming.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"A good magician always wears his magic shoes, and never leaves less than a few tricks up his sleave."  Yours truly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE, you've got the tricks up the sleave bit down pat.  Unfortunately, your magic shoes have dog [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] on them.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are three groups of people here:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Those that will happily pay for the packs and have a ball.  i.e. the hard-core</DIV> <DIV>2) Those that will look the other way.  Maybe pay for a pack here and there if they like it.  i.e. most of your players</DIV> <DIV>3)  Those who are fed up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The real question you have to ask:  Is group #2 still fooled by your slight of hand when you pull those tricks out of your sleave, or are they too shocked by your soiled magic shoes to even notice your performance?  By the time their attention is back on your show and not on your shoes, the trick is over.  "Oh, well, look at these other folks.  They enjoyed the trick, I'll clap too.  This magician must be good!  Maybe I'll come back for his next performance.  It's a very reasonable price."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After the trash that AC2 became, I have and never will buy another Turbine game.  This is the end of the line for me.  I'm getting off the SOE train.  Just like AMTRAK, at some point you're going to have a catastrophe on your hands.  Maybe that's this train, maybe it's the next one out of the station.  I'm not a betting person, my luck sucks.  Just my luck I'll end up on the one train that has no survivors; I'm not willing to risk that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the greather sceme of things, sure quite a few people are probably canceling tonight, but most aren't.  No one cares about my post on these boards. (And no you can't have my stuff.  :p  I've re-rolled toons so many times to try and get motivated, I don't HAVE any stuff.)  And in the end, this game will continue, maybe even 5 years from now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The point is, the MMO industry will never listen until you hit them where it hurts.  One person makes absolutely no difference.  Even the few hundred who may be canceling tonight will make no difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What makes a difference is that other developers learn what they can and can't get away with in this industry.  Someday, someone might just make the end-all be-all MMORPG.  You're only helping your competition.  It doesn't matter if you have highly guarded trade secrets.  If other companies can see that whatever mystical secrets you have don't work, they'll adapt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyhow, call me a tool.  I'm long-winded.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back to single-player games for me.  Oh, and there's this new concept out there I've been looking at that is having more and more appeal to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They call it:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>CORPG</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe it'll work, maybe not.  But at least I won't have to pay monthly fees for a dissapointment if it fails.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

Sute
01-08-2005, 02:13 PM
<DIV>worst ideas ever, kthx.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

aeric
01-08-2005, 02:14 PM
Really the only thing that concerns me about these adventure packs is that they are further compartmentalizing a game that is already too compartmentalized. You have locked encounters, instanced dungeons, flagging, and now adventure packs that plug into the world only if you pay for them. The whole game just feels so "on purpose"... it loses immersion and believability.I could care less about the $4.99 per adventure pack.The question: "Is it fun?" hasn't been asked enough at SOE when designing this game. Complaining about one thing like this is nipping at the fringe of the real problem.

MrBreak
01-08-2005, 06:19 PM
Ok, I have a few questions about this new system.If I buy an adventure pack, is it accessible from ALL characters on my account?If I get a station access pass, does that mean I get all the updates for free? If not, why not? I would already be giving SOE an extra $5 or so and this would pay for the content already.PS on topic of station access pass but off topic for this thread, does the station access pass include being able to use the eq2players.com content?Will SOE continue to focus on content for the main player base who pay the standard subscription only. By content I mean new dungeons where all players can access all the zones without paying? Will this remain a regular thing?Apologies if these questions have already been answered, I have a hangover.

Sparafuci
01-08-2005, 08:46 PM
<DIV>Its ok for me to have to pay for major expansions, but not for those small adventure packs. If they introduce that, I'm off. The monthly fee is too high as it is.</DIV>

TheB
01-09-2005, 01:26 PM
<DIV>The thing is, once SOE releases an expansion, not only will they have current bugs to fix but new ones also.  This is why I left SWG, because they were making JTL while the current game was jacked up.  I'm really enjoying EQ2 (up until the current patch), and I hope I don't have to click that "Cancel Subscription" button for this game too.  It was hard to let go of something that I worked hard for in SWG, but if I can do it there, I can do it here.  I'll give EQ2 a little more time, seeing as it's a farely new game, and because I also got a couple game cards for x-mas.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's hoping SOE.... /cries.self.to.sleep :smileysad:</DIV>

NimTorna
01-09-2005, 02:16 PM
<blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<DIV> </DIV><DIV>Think of them like modules for P&P adventure games. They're a smaller scale, self-containted storyline that adds onto the world with a more focused scope than a full-fledged expansion. They'll have a very reasonable price tag.</DIV></blockquote>Yes we could think so, but then you should think about EQ2 so too. When you buy adventure modules for traditional tabletop RPG you aren't paying monthly fee for Core Rule Books and Expansions. LOL. =)So, as i think, 15 USD/month + cost of expantions and maingame is a good enough price to make adventure modules free for all who pays it, without additional costs.<p>Message Edited by NimTornado on <span class=date_text>01-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:23 PM</span><p>Message Edited by NimTornado on <span class=date_text>01-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:24 PM</span>

Yodaya
01-10-2005, 02:45 AM
<DIV>I think people are still confused about this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE do give us free updates from time to time. The $15 monthly charge is for regular maintenance + free updates.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In addion to that they also going to give us adventure packs for a minimul fee. Now, isn't it better to have these for a nominal fee other than not having these at all.</DIV> <DIV>So, I am fully ok with SOE charging money for adventure packs and expansions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These are all fine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only issue which I have is that will they give a high priority to fix the remaining defects as to giving us these new expansions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

scorn
01-10-2005, 08:07 AM
<DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>This a a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] joke.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I bought this game thinking the 20$ pricetag would keep the game frequently updated with content, and now they're trying to ream me for another 5$ per uber dungeon and/or weaon I NEED to have. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Give me a break, if we don't start getting regular content for our $20.00 I'm gone.</DIV>

Neurax
01-10-2005, 09:15 AM
<DIV>Its seems that SOE only care about money. Maybe they put this new scheme in place because they are losing lots of money to WoW and EQ2 isn't as big as they hoped it would be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree with eveyone else, who cares about new content fix the game first. You can't do trade skills after this new patch the zones crash every 1hr, and the game is getting more and more laggy. It would be a result of nejena because that server is pretty full, but its a pain in the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. The game run better when it first came out the more the fix it the worse it gets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When are SOE going to start thinking about the little people</DIV>

Riis bal-Tann
01-10-2005, 12:38 PM
<blockquote><hr>aeric67 wrote:Really the only thing that concerns me about these adventure packs is that they are further compartmentalizing a game that is already too compartmentalized. You have locked encounters, instanced dungeons, flagging, and now adventure packs that plug into the world only if you pay for them. The whole game just feels so "on purpose"... it loses immersion and believability.I could care less about the $4.99 per adventure pack.The question: "Is it fun?" hasn't been asked enough at SOE when designing this game. Complaining about one thing like this is nipping at the fringe of the real problem.<hr></blockquote>Agreed. One more patch for me. RbT

Coraxizn
01-10-2005, 01:49 PM
<DIV>Capitalist Pigs . . .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and if anyone uses the word "Free" in relation to SOE again . . .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/smack</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Coraxiznoc on <span class=date_text>01-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:51 AM</span>

Ladyjaybl
01-10-2005, 01:59 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> NimTornado wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think of them like modules for P&P adventure games. They're a smaller scale, self-containted storyline that adds onto the world with a more focused scope than a full-fledged expansion. They'll have a very reasonable price tag.</DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes we could think so, but then you should think about EQ2 so too. <BR>When you buy adventure modules for traditional tabletop RPG you aren't paying monthly fee for Core Rule Books and Expansions. LOL. =)<BR>So, as i think, 15 USD/month + cost of expantions and maingame is a good enough price to make adventure modules free for all who pays it, without additional costs. <P>Message Edited by NimTornado on <SPAN class=date_text>01-09-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:23 PM</SPAN> <P>Message Edited by NimTornado on <SPAN class=date_text>01-09-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:24 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Nim, you are a very smart person, and I am hoping that others will see the logic in your posting as well and object to such underhanded methods as charging for additional content.</P> <P> </P> <P>*** For all of you who do not see the problem with Sonys plan, please take a minute to think about this. Sony is rationalizing their plan to charge us for additional content by comparing it to the likes of table top role playing games such as D&D, which offer modules at an extra cost. </P> <P>Let me support Nim here by saying that this is a very unreasonable comparison that in truth "holds no water" whatsoever.</P> <P>TSR games offer module packs for dungeon masters who want to run an additional story line either because they are fresh out of original game plans, or just want to experience something of a different sort with their gaming group. These packs are priced accordingly however, plz keep in mind that, (as pointed out by Nim), people who play traditional rpgs do not pay a monthly fee for playing priveleges, and if they did, I am quite certain, (coming from a D&D player point of view), that they would expect to receive such modules as part of their montly pay to play package. </P> <P>Many of you are saying that you dont care about such extra charges, but only care about getting the game fixed. It should be pointed out that yes, the game should be fixed as soon as possible, however the gaming community should not feel that they are forced to pick and choose the lesser evil of having the game fixed, or paying for extra content. </P> <P>The fact is, the game needs to be fixed, plz do so as we have been waiting patiently and continue to wait as we have no other choice. But when it comes down to paying for content, on top of our monthly fee, we do indeed have a choice before us.... it would be smart of you Sony, not forget this fact.</P> <P>I read a post earlier witch stated that they did not mind paying for an additional module type pack, but can you not see, that we are already paying for this to begin with? I am quite sure that most subscribers considered the monthly price tag, and made a decision that it was quite worth the 15 bucks a month to enjoy this game. What we all did not know however is that this fee would not include all available content. The fact that this information was not revealed at the time of purchase or presentation of the game is incredibly underhanded and deceptive. I say deceptive because with all certainty, SOE sold us their product with the well kept secret that after we initially bought their game, and agreed to the ongoing fee, that their would be other fees for aspects of this product that we would naturally believe to be included.</P> <P>On a final note, the concept of making portions of the game available to only those who can afford it will further divide the eq2 community, which was initially intended to be a very social/interdependant type environment. </P> <P>Sony, with this decision, you are driving a wedge between its player base. We all are that you have been greedy in the past but this new proposal contradicts everything that the everquest world was intended to be.</P> <P>Perhaps since youve gone to this extent, you might consider selling these "adventure packs" also known as zones and content to the highest bidder on ebay that way the entire game can go straight down the tubes... But hey, who cares about quality or ethics when you can make an extra buck right?!</P> <P>Sincerely, </P> <P>Ladyjayblue<BR></P>

Jzi
01-10-2005, 06:42 PM
<DIV>I think they need to fix the bugs first. However if all the team are working on fixing bugs, and adding the newcontent. then if people want additional content on top of that, then the extra fee's pay for the extra staffs wages. it really does depend on how much new stuff is added with the regular monthly fee.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for people who can't afford to pay missing out on loot etc *shrug* people who have to work 5-6 days a week regular hours miss out in ways also, they also get to play the game they like less, they do however have the money to buy expansions/additional content if they choose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm hoping the packs will have the additional story content that is missing in some areas, i'm not so bothered about the loot, and I suspect it will be on par with whats droppingv elsewhere anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But if the people actually buying those packs are the people that like to actually explore and investigate the plot, as opposed to sitting at zone shouting where can I find XXX NPC I need to kill for XXX quest, or where does XXX loot drop instead of actually like, following the quest themselves or asking a character personally for advice. Then I'm cool with that, don't see it happening though.. i predict alot of people buying the first pack, and then [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing they paid 4.99 for an expansion that gives them loot comparable  to what the can get in EL etc and they were ripped off.</DIV>

reeeeever
01-10-2005, 07:42 PM
<blockquote><hr>Jziad wrote:<DIV>I think they need to fix the bugs first. However if all the team are working on fixing bugs, and adding the newcontent. then if people want additional content on top of that, then the extra fee's pay for the extra staffs wages. it really does depend on how much new stuff is added with the regular monthly fee.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>As for people who can't afford to pay missing out on loot etc *shrug* people who have to work 5-6 days a week regular hours miss out in ways also, they also get to play the game they like less, they do however have the money to buy expansions/additional content if they choose.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I'm hoping the packs will have the additional story content that is missing in some areas, i'm not so bothered about the loot, and I suspect it will be on par with whats droppingv elsewhere anyway.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>But if the people actually buying those packs are the people that like to actually explore and investigate the plot, as opposed to sitting at zone shouting where can I find XXX NPC I need to kill for XXX quest, or where does XXX loot drop instead of actually like, following the quest themselves or asking a character personally for advice. Then I'm cool with that, don't see it happening though.. i predict alot of people buying the first pack, and then [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing they paid 4.99 for an expansion that gives them loot comparable to what the can get in EL etc and they were ripped off.</DIV><hr></blockquote>I'd be amazed if the loot was the same as you get in EL etc. Experience shows that expansions always up the stakes in loot.SOE dosent care if they upset the game balance as long as they get a few extra bucks. They can always wield the nerfbat a few months down the line and make the mobs tougher to get things back under controlPay up or be left behind has always been the way of MMORPG's its just that SOE expects its customers to pay a heck of lot more than other companies

snai
01-11-2005, 02:17 AM
<DIV>Not that Im for or against any future decisions made to EQ2, but if you have never put some figures to numbers here is a quick guess based off information found. This is not actual figures nor is anything based off of pure facts (For those number pushers out there who like no mistakes, etc Im no mathmatician) But for what its worth....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffff00> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>4,634,500 = 14.95 month * 310,000 subscribers (not including their All Access for the 21.95)</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>55,614,000 = 14.95 month * 310,000 Subscribers for one year (Not including their All Access for 21.95)</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>49.95 = Game price (One time cost per account, on average new game costs)</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>_____</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>49.95 One time cost</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2></FONT> </P> <P><B><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#ffff00><FONT size=2>After one year of gaming:</FONT></FONT></FONT></B></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>4.95 = 59.28 Adventure [email protected] a month for 12 months (possible 2 month, say its one a month for now)</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>14.95 = 179.40 monthly service (None All Access account) (12 months subscription paying monthly)</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>29.95 = 29.95 Average cost of expansions (guesstimate) (possible 2 a year, but say its one a year for now)</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>_______</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>238.63 + 49.95 = 288.58 per person per year possible</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>Total subscriptions as of current number of people in EQ2: (310,000 as of Jan 10, 2005 based on 310,[email protected] a year)</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>89,459,800.00</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2></FONT> </P> <P><B><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#ffff00><FONT size=2>On adventure packs [email protected],000 with half making a purchase in one month:</FONT></FONT></FONT></B></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>155,000 * 4.95 = 767,250</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2></FONT> </P> <P><B><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#ffff00><FONT size=2>Heres something for those who play using a broadband account based on an average monthly payment of 49.95:</FONT></FONT></FONT></B></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>14.95 = Monthly EQ2 account</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>49.95 = Average cost of DSL (guessing) (Odds are you don’t have it just for EQ2 but who knows)</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>4.95 = One adventure pack purchased in a months time</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>______</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=2>69.85 = Total monthly cost of playing EQ2 with DSL/Cable</FONT></P> <P> </P></FONT> <P>Basically, SOE is getting there money's worth. Granted theres overhead involved, but either way, heres some numbers thrown together just for the purpose of putting somewhat a figure to whats already being paid for. Give or take with different things taken into account.</P> <P> </P> <P>(*FYI - if my numbers are that far off I will delete the info and let the serious mathmaticians post their stats.)</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Malifest
01-11-2005, 03:29 AM
<DIV>Snailz,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yah I put something similar together a while back and was able to roughly guess that after devolpment fee's and such that they would being making money in roughly 6 to 8 months.  Personally they should be making hand over fist in around that time period and I don't see why they need to bill us for any of this extra fee's content and web statics, when it might cost them customers in the long run.  We'll see how many just play through 50 and drop the game for WoW.  Lot of games out there now to be tied down to a company that does things like this.  15 bucks a month is almost to expensive for causal gamers to caugh up.</DIV>

Ibnithl
01-11-2005, 03:42 AM
So it's your basic multi-million dollar business, we're talking mondo-bling, true enough... Makes you wonder how many of these gripes are actual, truthful gripes or, more than likely, it's just another company trying to skim off the top of SOE's profits. I mean think about it, logically, what better way to steal an MMORPG's client-base than through its forums? Masquerading by competitive companies on forum boards is hardly a new strategy, it's been widely used since the late 80's and early 90's.Somebody wants a piece of SOE's cookie badly and they are willing to pay by the post, so be mindful.Just like the hype, don't believe all the gripe.Ibnithl EQ1 / Illraeth EQ1 & EQ2 / Sylraeth EQ2 / Ibyn EQ2 & a few other characters

Riis bal-Tann
01-11-2005, 04:43 AM
I can pretty much guarantee that the 310k subscribers is EQ2's likely peak. With WoW's latest publicity move (no more new copies for now), their game has gotten even hotter. Several new games are coming out, including some excellent genre games and some out-of genre games.Add to that a poor first patch, which drove off some word of mouth from the players (ie: many players will stay, but their friends will remember how frustrating the game was for the player and not join in), a general feeling of disenfranchisement from the player community (which will dampen the "new game ardor" for a lot of players), and some lukewarm reviews and fanbase commentary....we're looking at our peak already. I think Smedley and the suits have some ideas up their sleeves - remember these games are run on schedules that don't allow the developers a lot of latitude for direction. He's already fired off one distraction flare on the players with this announcement, so his big gun is likely done. If the next patch tanks, all he likely has left for a crowd distraction tidbit is the name and theme of the first expansion pack.Right off the bat, we're seeing the game moving off in a direction a lot of players don't want to go. With the tradeskilling issues at the fore, but also others like selling offline, outleveling content, and a general perception of "nerfage" in the air, we're looking at a surprisingly skeptical playerbase so early in the game.While my own decision and timetable has been set, I can see how this is going to be a rough decision for the players who have yet to decide to sign on for the long haul with this game. This distraction/announcement was greeted with a lot of passion by the playerbase, and may be an indicator where the players are heading.RbT

smee1
01-11-2005, 11:53 PM
<DIV>Well my two pennyworth,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   I pay £9.99 a month, so in a year thats £120 when a new game costs £34 i reckon that a certain amount of free content should be included. I should not have to pay extra for game content.</DIV> <DIV>   I personaly can accept having to pay for 1 add on a year but not 2 or more or for new dungeons.</DIV>

Zhern
01-13-2005, 12:11 AM
<DIV>The only thing that disturbs me on this, is the guild issue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am in a guild on Oggok. What happens if half the guild members get the new add-on, and the others don't?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not worried about the cash. But if you put out these add-ons, you pretty much  going to seperate our guild members.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would rather see  a price increase, then everything is free.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But please do not seperate your players. It would remind me of EQ 1/live all over again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And if anyone reads this that is making a MMORPG. Listen to what I say. Start your game off at X price. All additional content, expansions, etc is free. If you feel the need to jack the price up a buck, then do it. But never ever seperate your player base. </DIV>

Malifest
01-13-2005, 12:23 AM
<DIV>Very very good point.</DIV>