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Orthureon
10-23-2012, 08:30 PM
<p>I am not sure who envisioned that it would be a good idea to FORCE players to choose one tree or the other with the new Prestige progression.</p><p>In my opinion it is  a horrible idea, simple as that. If this is the way it is to remain, people might as well play WoW, Rift, Aion etc. Because freedom of choice is the main reason most still play this game. However, when you allow a player to truly customize their character without too many artificial restraints - such as this one - they will continue to play for that experience alone.</p><p>I am a person that split specs all the time, I don't always want the very endline on something, sometimes I just want bits and pieces from different trees to mold the character in the fashion that I want.</p>

Alotta
10-23-2012, 08:44 PM
<p>I agree. </p>

Maroger
10-23-2012, 08:58 PM
<p>I agree too. They got rid of forced trees earlier - why are they bringing them back. NO FORCED AA Trees.</p>

Mermut
10-23-2012, 09:03 PM
<p>The worst part of this, in my opinion, is the change to the requirements to put points in the frist blob of each tree. Currently, on live, you put 6 pts in the first 4 and you have access to both the first blobs. On beta, theyv'e changed it that EACH blob requires 6 pts... so to get the second starter (as many current live builds do) will require us to waste 6 points to fill out the first line.</p><p>This change implies that the first blob on each tree is SIX POINTS better then anything we can spend lower down on each tree. That seems rather excessive to me.</p>

Autheas
10-23-2012, 10:34 PM
<p>I believe it was mentioned that you can do exactly what you used to do with AA by splitting between the trees once you get to lvl 94 and 20% (40%?) to 95... it will mean that you have to give up one of the other options on the bottom but you can still do it, just have to wait until longer...</p>

Neiloch
10-23-2012, 10:48 PM
<p><cite>Autheas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I believe it was mentioned that you can do exactly what you used to do with AA by splitting between the trees once you get to lvl 94 and 20% (40%?) to 95... it will mean that you have to give up one of the other options on the bottom but you can still do it, just have to wait until longer...</p></blockquote><p>at 95 you can get both new abilities, you just can't get all the upgrades for those abilities, don't think you can get much of the center ones either.</p><p>AA points for classes in the past never had much of a choice. There was the best choice and everything else. then eventually you had access to so many points you could get every remotely good choice and then some. What EQ2 had was the 'illusion' of choice and usually when splitting a lot was the best option, its the opposite of the what the designers intended.</p>

Marlichy1
10-23-2012, 11:33 PM
<p>I agree as well.</p>

Mermut
10-23-2012, 11:55 PM
<p><cite>Autheas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I believe it was mentioned that you can do exactly what you used to do with AA by splitting between the trees once you get to lvl 94 and 20% (40%?) to 95... it will mean that you have to give up one of the other options on the bottom but you can still do it, just have to wait until longer...</p></blockquote><p>No, you can't. Not unless you put an extra 6 points into the intial options on the very top. That's the change that I'm objecting to. Currently with 6 points in the intial 4, I can put a point in the starter of both trees. On beta, that is not possible.. no matter what level you are. Without spending (wasting in most cases) 6 more points in the top 4 options, you cannot, ever, get the start of the other tree.</p>

Maergoth
10-24-2012, 12:27 AM
<p>I said this in the other thread, the paladin feedback thread, as the #1 thing I could ask for in the expansion.</p><p><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-large; color: #ffffff;"><strong><span>BREAK APART THE NEW AND OLD PRESTIGE TREES. THEY'RE TOO LONG.</span></strong></span></p><p>There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to force people to go ALL the way down the left or ALL the way down the right.</p><p><strong>Just unlock both of the new trees after 10 points spent. That's all.</strong></p><p>Otherwise, you're either forcing people to give up what they LIKED from the last set of prestiges, or forcing them to take something they DON'T WANT from the new prestiges. Let us mix and match so we can at least use some of the new cool mechanics, instead of getting stuck with whichever tree we already started.</p>

Leawyn
10-24-2012, 02:05 AM
<p>I agree, this tree locking is for the birds. It is completely irrational that I would enter a new expansion with LESS abilities than the day before it launched. I shouldn't lose the ability to have both Umbral Barrier and the Bolster upgrade like I currently have on Live. I don't understand why you would force us to spend 12 points on the first row when we only have 25 points to spend! That's half of the points going to weak abilities when compared to later in the trees. Yes, I understand I'd have to sacrifice the upgrades or the center points by splitting my points between the trees, but sacrificing 7 points for what used to cost 1 is just plain silly. Please fix the requiring 6 additional points to be spent in the first row before you can spend points in the opposite tree. That is just SUCH a stiff penalty for splitting points =(</p>

Xathier
10-24-2012, 06:01 AM
<p>+1 to what everyone has said here.  Getting more points in pres lines, and then making you spend most of them on things you dont want, just to get back to what you had before is a horrible idea.</p>

Fyang
10-24-2012, 08:51 AM
<p>Agree, Id like to put 6 pts in the first 4 and you have access to both as live now.</p>

Sharann
10-24-2012, 05:04 PM
<p>I agree. I want freedom of choice. Currently on live I've got my AAs equally put in both trees so I found it very annoying being forced to follow a path all the way to the bottom.</p>

KenCoop
10-24-2012, 07:21 PM
<p>I would hope they listen to player feedback on this one.  It is almost as bad as the Subclass trees still being locked.  There are so many wasted AA there, why would we now need to waste presitge points.</p><p>Unlock Prestige Trees, Unlock Subclass Trees 2012!! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Kabahl
10-24-2012, 10:45 PM
<p><cite>Mermut wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Autheas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I believe it was mentioned that you can do exactly what you used to do with AA by splitting between the trees once you get to lvl 94 and 20% (40%?) to 95... it will mean that you have to give up one of the other options on the bottom but you can still do it, just have to wait until longer...</p></blockquote><p>No, you can't. Not unless you put an extra 6 points into the intial options on the very top. That's the change that I'm objecting to. Currently with 6 points in the intial 4, I can put a point in the starter of both trees. On beta, that is not possible.. no matter what level you are. Without spending (wasting in most cases) 6 more points in the top 4 options, you cannot, ever, get the start of the other tree.</p></blockquote><p>^^^ This precisely.  I put 6 in the first line, I can go down left or right.  You have to put the OTHER 6 in the first line to go down the second line . . . </p><p>A better way would be to have us spend 6 on line one, then as soon as we spend another 6 down one line, open up the second line . . . Forcing us to have to spend 12 points in that first line is just going to alienate and frustrate people.  Especially since, as of now, I can do BOTH abilities (currently 3rd line down) but come expansion time I'm going to wake up and suddenly forget how to use one or the other.  Then be frustrated by having to waste points on abilities I don't want just to remember them both . . . </p>

Davngr1
10-25-2012, 02:33 AM
<p>if you're going to keep the trees as they are then you need to make certain that both are balanced or what's the use of making two trees?      specially for classes that have totally different focus for each side.</p>

FreaklyCreak
10-25-2012, 04:23 AM
<p>I'd like freedom of choice also. I'm only playing EQ2 right now because beta gives gold sub while on beta server so I can help do beta and see if I like the content enough to come back. This being changed to freedom of choice would be a huge factor on if I come back or not.</p>

Cyrdemac
10-25-2012, 09:41 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I said this in the other thread, the paladin feedback thread, as the #1 thing I could ask for in the expansion.</p><p><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-large; color: #ffffff;"><strong><span>BREAK APART THE NEW AND OLD PRESTIGE TREES. THEY'RE TOO LONG.</span></strong></span></p><p>There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to force people to go ALL the way down the left or ALL the way down the right.</p><p><strong>Just unlock both of the new trees after 10 points spent. That's all.</strong></p><p>Otherwise, you're either forcing people to give up what they LIKED from the last set of prestiges, or forcing them to take something they DON'T WANT from the new prestiges. Let us mix and match so we can at least use some of the new cool mechanics, instead of getting stuck with whichever tree we already started.</p></blockquote><p>+1</p>

Daalilama
10-25-2012, 01:56 PM
<p>Aside from the fact that some new prestige trees are blah least allow us to pick and choose which of the first 4 prestige abilities we would like before we decide which tree is worth it...not really sure the rational on this.</p>

duhyaj
10-25-2012, 02:15 PM
<p>I completely agree with most of the posts above. I feel like we should be allowed to do at least what we used to be able to do on (as it is on live now). forcing us to choose one or the other is gonna change a lot of how a lot of players played their toons and may be a killer for people on teh edge of wether they will continue playing or not. I am personally not looking forward to changing my whole playstyle due to this.</p>

Lethlian
10-25-2012, 03:00 PM
<p><strong>Just unlock both of the new trees after 10 points spent. That's all.</strong></p><p>Otherwise, you're either forcing people to give up what they LIKED from the last set of prestiges, or forcing them to take something they DON'T WANT from the new prestiges. Let us mix and match so we can at least use some of the new cool mechanics, instead of getting stuck with whichever tree we already started.</p><p><strong><span style="font-size: large;">QFE</span></strong></p>

amgx
10-25-2012, 04:09 PM
<p>I'm sure there may be some reasoning behind a new restriction like this, but taking back what you had once given is not a great way to handle things.</p>

Orthureon
10-25-2012, 05:06 PM
<p><cite>amgx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm sure there may be some reasoning behind a new restriction like this, but taking back what you had once given is not a great way to handle things.</p></blockquote><p>Well I am sure most of us wouldn't mind this proposed idea IF AND ONLY IF:</p><p>a) Both sides had equally valuable endlines</p><p>b) every single ability in the tree was unique and enticing.</p><p>They had a year plus (did they not???) to add new progression abilities to the classes. and they give us about 10-15 new things to choose... really???</p><p>The least they could have done was give each class a new spell or something.</p>

Cyliena
10-25-2012, 07:56 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I said this in the other thread, the paladin feedback thread, as the #1 thing I could ask for in the expansion.</p><p><span style="font-size: x-large;"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-large; color: #ffffff;"><strong><span>BREAK APART THE NEW AND OLD PRESTIGE TREES. THEY'RE TOO LONG.</span></strong></span></p><p>There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to force people to go ALL the way down the left or ALL the way down the right.</p><p><strong>Just unlock both of the new trees after 10 points spent. That's all.</strong></p><p>Otherwise, you're either forcing people to give up what they LIKED from the last set of prestiges, or forcing them to take something they DON'T WANT from the new prestiges. Let us mix and match so we can at least use some of the new cool mechanics, instead of getting stuck with whichever tree we already started.</p></blockquote><p>After logging in and seeing what it turned out like today, I have to agree with this.</p>

Twyxx
10-25-2012, 08:25 PM
<p>I'm thinking one reason is to make us choose to define a playstyle.  As a ranger do you want to be single target or aoe heavy?  The other reason is probably that this is easier to balance.  If they just opened up all the abilities to everyone now it would be a lot tougher to balance. </p><p>Not saying I wouldn't prefer they put a bunch of cool stuff out there and let us pick around the meh, but just offering possible reasons for their thinking on this.</p>

Kabahl
10-25-2012, 09:45 PM
<p>My beef with ALL of this (and it is looking to be a game breaker if it stays) is that, as of now, and for the past SIX months, (92 came out in aprox. April-ish) I've had BOTH of the 3rd line abilities (in my case, "In Plain Sight" and "Bleedout").  So here I'll be, loving the fact I can use both of these abilities and finding them extremely useful.  I'll go to bed one day knowing them both, then one day (i.e. expansion day) I suddenly forget how to use them?  Sure I can go down one line, but I can't, for the life of me, remember how to do the other, even though I've been using it for 7 months?  Really?  That's what you're going with?</p><p>You are nerfing EVERYONE in the game that has chosen both abilities.  Seriously?  Who's master plan was this?  WHY is it there NEVER seems to be forethought into ANY of this?  Why not come out with "New Game Enhancements" every week and give and take away abilities EVERY 6 months?  Hell,  make it bi-monthly . . . bi-weekly . . . in fact, just give us a random character every time we log in with similarly statted gear . . . I liked Mortal Kombat's random character choice, let's do that here!</p><p>Okay, the above was a BIT unfair and melodramatic . . . (I've been taking overacting classes) but you get the idea.  It's frustrating beyond belief to be given abilities in one update just to be taken away from one day to the next, six months later.</p><p>I don't WANT it to "Open Up" after 10 points.  I can use both abilities NOW!  I shouldn't have to wait to level up to be able to use them again, no matter HOW you redistribute the requirements.  </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: large;">Don't take abilities away in an update or expansion.</span></p><p>It's not like it's a game breaking bug having both abilities.  But it WILL effect my DPS, my gameplay, and my enjoyment of the game.  Rework the lines to allow for us to keep what we've already been using for the past SIX months. . . . Please . . . pretty please with sugar on top?  </p><p>Thanks.</p>

Shae
10-25-2012, 10:28 PM
<p>The first impression the players will have of this expansion will be negative if this goes live.  Not a good idea.</p>

Kabahl
10-26-2012, 12:32 AM
<p><cite>Shae wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The first impression the players will have of this expansion will be negative if this goes live.  Not a good idea.</p></blockquote><p>During Fan Faire I was excited . . . actually excited, about this expansion.  (which hasn't happened since Sentinel's Fate).  But this will just leave me annoyed, frustrated, and feeling like there's never any forethought to any kind of progression . . . gear, raid, ability, or otherwise.</p><p>Taking abilities away from players that aren't game breaking or way too overpowered (which this isn't) just because "Well, that's how we want to design it just 'cause that's what we thought of . . . " is just . . . I can't even begin to convey how P.O.'d I will be if it goes live this way  . . . except to finally stop subscribing to every SOE game.  </p><p>At least I'll still have Fan Faire I can go to and win in the Aether Races (or whatever contest you have) to win back the money I've laid out to SOE since June of '99.  Second place was nice this year, but I got a whole LOT more money to win back from you, SOE.  Keep the high paying contests coming.</p><p>- Charn, Second best Aether Racer in 2012 - I beat an SOE Dev! (and have the pin to show it!)</p>

capricorn23
10-26-2012, 01:31 AM
<p><span style="font-size: medium;"><strong>The key to sales is simple ( Give the people what they want ) Or they wont <span style="font-size: medium;">buy</span> what your selling.</strong></span></p><p> Having said that, It would be a real shame if SOE  for the first time in their history to launch a simple to use beta campaign looking for feedback and ignored the popular demand or if you will request from players alike.</p><p>This Is more than likely the most important issue with this expansion due to the fact that our unique abilities are what define our characters essentially and being forced to go down one avenue forgoing our previous choices in  our current state takes away from any chance of being unique, rather takes away from the direction the game has gone since launch and forces us to simply level up and select the AA's that SOE wants us to pick.  ( perception, but not opinion )</p><p>Having  access to new abilities but only by forgoing our current choices and not being able to modify the new aa's in much of any way if one choses to  retain what we currently have leaves us with 2 options -</p><p>( 1 ) Keep what we have now, and gain nothing much in general at all.</p><p>( 2 ) Lose what we have been given by trading our choices for new ones.</p><p>I personally like my current choices, and everyone I have spoken with generally does too and has gotten use to them. too keep them we have to forgo the new aa's and wont really be able to modify them to their fullest and that leaves a stale taste in my mouth.</p><p>I was pretty excited for new AA's and content, NOT the ability to keep my current AA's and only have viewing access to the new AA's.</p><p>I dont think ive ever been dissapointed in SOE until i tried this BETA and saw this forced AA tree BUT, im glad i saw it in beta so i can cancel my preorder sale of this expansion. Im not going to pay for something i dont want, Period.</p>

Davngr1
10-26-2012, 01:43 AM
<p>i can understand the balance aspect but the thing is that in most cases the trees aren't balanced. </p>

Lethlian
10-26-2012, 03:06 AM
<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i can understand the balance aspect but the thing is that in most cases the trees aren't balanced. </p></blockquote><p>Thats honestly a spot on statement. when I think of mmorpgs, the common trend or idea most people like is *their* ability to choose / customize their characters. Hence back when eq2 first started waaaay back in 2004 you had intially only 4 basic characters to choose from in the beginning, then when you reached level 10 (iirc) you could then branch out to another subset of that base model, then when you reached level 20 (iirc) you would *finally* end up with what character class you truly wanted. <em>(but the idea and theme was this, none of them were balanced to begin with because each of them had set roles and depended on each other to succeed)</em></p><p>My point now is this - As expacs continued more was added to those base roles. What you have now is basically mudflation and balkanization, you have Tanks that can do T1 dps or scout/mage damage, you have healers who want to be scouts (i.e inq(s), you have scouts who want to be healers (i.e dirges with rezes and healing wards) you have mages that want tank levels of mitigation and avoidance (all those cry babies). The game has gotten so convoluted over time that allot classes can do allot of what other class based archtypes can do, that we never had when the game started. <em>So as of a result of all that, we've been coached now as players to accept this universal standard or measureing stick of this</em> <strong>: DPS </strong>its the big mofo'ing elphant sitting in the room that everyone knows is there but either <strong>1) </strong>don't want to do a dang thing about it or <strong>2)</strong> don't know what to do about it or lastly<strong> 3)</strong> don't care <em>(which I feel is a very small minority tbh, especially with as many peeps that post all kinds of crazy stuff in these forums)</em></p><p>The only acception to break the above said rule now is this. <strong>1) </strong>Man up fix this game with a bibical intensity and hurt peoples feelings about accepting / making the original roles come back again or<strong> 2)</strong> dont make this same mistake with EQnext or <strong>3)</strong> Until EQnext comes out, expect everything that is implented in this game to be highly scrutinized like it presently is.</p><p>/steps off the pulpit.</p><p>respectfully,</p><p>Lethlian</p>

ChrissyFaey
10-26-2012, 03:21 AM
<p>Please allow the first six points to unlock both trees and allow us to go down both lines at a time if we so choose.</p>

Hennyo
10-26-2012, 04:42 AM
Please don't listen to most anyone in this thread, being able to balance the game around 3 obvious prestige builds right now, double conversion, left, or right, is the correct method that is currently being used. By allowing people to take any mismash of prestige would completely break balance, and destroy any hope that any sort of balance would even be possible.

Orthureon
10-26-2012, 10:04 AM
<p><cite>Hennyo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Please don't listen to most anyone in this thread, being able to balance the game around 3 obvious prestige builds right now, double conversion, left, or right, is the correct method that is currently being used. By allowing people to take any mismash of prestige would completely break balance, and destroy any hope that any sort of balance would even be possible.</blockquote><p>If you have ever played almost any RPG, you would notice that most of them do not force you to one thing or the other. Most allow the freedom to be a jack-of-all-trades and master-of-none, or be the best fighter with a sword and shield this world has ever seen etc. The point being, they should allow you the choice to specialize in a particular focus, or simply be an amalgamation of all things related to your class.</p><p>/preaching</p><p>No one ever said they wanted the trees completely opened, at least I never did. I simply stated that forcing one path or another is silly.</p><p>The best bet is to invest 6 points and you can spend it across 2 trees, it is not like you can get every ability, or buff the endlines up to their full potential. I understand the desire for balance, but doing so they removed abilities people have now and have had since this current expansion's launch day.</p><p>EDIT: I forgot to mention, once you open up the 2nd tier abilities you would still be required to progress as it currently functions.</p>

aSQSWD
10-26-2012, 04:22 PM
<p>I agree</p><p>I am very against taking choices away from players.  Players are going to have a very negitive reaction to this when it goes live.</p>

Davngr1
10-26-2012, 05:20 PM
<p><cite>Hennyo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Please don't listen to most anyone in this thread, being able to balance the game around 3 obvious prestige builds right now, double conversion, left, or right, is the correct method that is currently being used. By allowing people to take any mismash of prestige would completely break balance, and destroy any hope that any sort of balance would even be possible.</blockquote><p>   you're absolutely wrong.</p><p>   the first 10 prestige points had NOTHING to do with the second set of prestige points given this time around and thus should NOT influence what tree we choose.</p><p>   some people are asking to be able to just choose anything they want ala EoF tree style but the majority are just upset about having to give up their current tree choice for one of the NEW tree choices.</p><p>  to link them all together is going to take a level of fine tuning that is not currently being offered.</p>

capricorn23
10-26-2012, 06:21 PM
<p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #ff0000;"><strong>Davngr1 <span style="color: #ff9900;">Wrote:</span></strong></span></p><p>the first 10 prestige points had NOTHING to do with the second set of prestige points given this time around and thus should NOT influence what tree we choose.</p><p>   some people are asking to be able to just choose anything they want ala EoF tree style but the majority are just upset about having to give up their current tree choice for one of the NEW tree choices.</p><p> <span style="font-size: large;"><strong>__________________________________________________ ___________</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I agree 100% with this statement </span>and am bothered about whats currently being offered as supposed choices, I am being stripped of what i am currently using in the game <span style="color: #ff0000;">RIGHT NOW</span> for raids and instances not to mention have been for some time, and when the new Expansion goes live i cant use these abilities along with anything new ?</p><p>/sadface</p>

Allenne
10-26-2012, 07:10 PM
<p>Honestly what would this solve? Is it hurting other players to be able to switch which line to go down? This does more to hurt that game and the players than it does to help.</p><p>Please do not change how prestige paths are currently done!!!</p><p>Aluinn</p>

Maroger
10-26-2012, 11:15 PM
<p>The problem with forced trees as you are forced to spend AAs on junk. Lookt at the main first tree. - for each one you want in line you have a bunch that you don't want but have to spend points on.</p><p>You unlocked most of the tree - PLEASE DO NOT LOCK TREES ANY MORE - allow us to make a choice - don't make it for us.</p>

wanyu
10-26-2012, 11:31 PM
I agree as well

Shotneedle
10-27-2012, 09:00 AM
<p>Locking the trees is necessary because I guarantee you every single class would be taking double conversion if you could get it with 4 points instead of 10. They can't make every aa in the new trees more amazing than a conversion. Not to mention classes that get two new dps spells would be considerably stronger than classes who don't.</p>

Mermut
10-27-2012, 12:21 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Locking the trees is necessary because I guarantee you every single class would be taking double conversion if you could get it with 4 points instead of 10. They can't make every aa in the new trees more amazing than a conversion. Not to mention classes that get two new dps spells would be considerably stronger than classes who don't.</p></blockquote><p>I have to disagree with your assumption, here, about everybody taking both of the 'conversion' options if they could. If everybody was dying to have the conversion options, nobody would be complaining about losing the ability to get both starters... because nobody would have both starters right now. The only way to get both starters, as things stand on live, is to forgo the 'conversion' option.</p>

Aotulan
10-27-2012, 12:32 PM
I agree that some form of "locking" or restriction is needed, but not to the extent that it is done, for example for my dirge i would like to go down the Left tree up until the conversion and then get the right side New prestige options, I don't feel we should be able to spend the 6 point and go down either tree as is suggested above but maybe seperating it so that after the completing the current Prestige trees on Live you can choose Either one of the New sub trees?? Just my thoughts

Davngr1
10-27-2012, 05:42 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Locking the trees is necessary because I guarantee you every single class would be taking double conversion if you could get it with 4 points instead of 10. They can't make every aa in the new trees more amazing than a conversion. Not to mention classes that get two new dps spells would be considerably stronger than classes who don't.</p></blockquote><p> that makes no sense what so ever. the first two prestige trees where balanced when released.  there is no reason to balance the second set of prestige to it.</p><p> the second set of prestige should not be locked to the first set of prestige, period.</p><p> i don't know why devs seem to pay more attention to what the "cool kids" concerns are but there are issues that high end raiding players might not have, that general population DOES have and they are just as important if not more.</p><p> in short stop trying to run devils advocate for this stupid restriction.</p><p> edit.</p><p> the top two lines should lock after spending 10 prestige points in either one and should stay locked as there are currently on live.  that way the first prestige tree stays exactly as it was intended and the new prestige trees are availabe to everyone.</p>

capricorn23
10-27-2012, 05:48 PM
<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Locking the trees is necessary because I guarantee you every single class would be taking double conversion if you could get it with 4 points instead of 10. They can't make every aa in the new trees more amazing than a conversion. Not to mention classes that get two new dps spells would be considerably stronger than classes who don't.</p></blockquote><p> that makes no sense what so ever. the first two prestige trees where balanced when released.  there is no reason to balance the second set of prestige to it.</p><p> the second set of prestige should not be locked to the first set of prestige, period.</p><p> i don't know why devs seem to pay more attention to what the "cool kids" concerns are but there are issues that high end raiding players might not have, that general population DOES have and they are just as important if not more.</p><p> in short stop trying to run devils advocate for this stupid restriction.</p></blockquote><p> I agree with Davangr1 100% and perhaps Buffrat's class or classes appear to be balanced for him or her, but the majority of us are now losing the skillset we have been using and grown acusstomed too and  gain nothing in the new expansion at all if we chose to maintain our current  prestige AA's.</p><p>I would be happy with 6 AA's to unlock both trees permanently or for CoE aa's to go into a bran new AA tab, like other expansions and have nothing to do with  our current prestige aa's...</p><p>Kind of angers me and upsets me that what ive been using is going to be taken away from me or i gain nothing new at all, almost like a huge nerf bat to many classes.</p>

Leawyn
10-27-2012, 09:54 PM
<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> the top two lines should lock after spending 10 prestige points in either one and should stay locked as there are currently on live.  that way the first prestige tree stays exactly as it was intended and the new prestige trees are availabe to everyone.</p></blockquote><p>I like this idea. This lets me keep the two starters, but prevents me from getting both conversions, and I'm OK with that.</p>

Lethlian
10-28-2012, 03:58 AM
<p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> the top two lines should lock after spending 10 prestige points in either one and should stay locked as there are currently on live.  that way the first prestige tree stays exactly as it was intended and the new prestige trees are availabe to everyone.</p></blockquote><p>I like this idea. This lets me keep the two starters, but prevents me from getting both conversions, and I'm OK with that.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah I agree with this....TBH they should have NEVER connected our present in game prestige tab with the new planned prestige abilities.</p><p>They should leave our current in game prestige tree as is and ADD a new tab/page for the new abilities there making and have them be UNASSOCIATED with our current prestige trees, that way you could simply choose either or regardless of what path you choose in the current in game prestige line.</p><p>This would be perfectly acceptable imo.</p><p>Respectfully,</p><p>Lethlian</p>

Kabahl
10-28-2012, 08:26 AM
<p>All I ask is, "Just don't take away the abilities WE ALREADY HAVE!"</p><p>It just seems that there's never any forethought beyond the next update or expansion.  EVER.  For gear.  For abilities.  None.  Nada.  Nothing.</p><p>It's just . . . like . . . did you not think past last update, when you upped the level to 92 and gave us these prestige abilties (what?  6 months ago, maybe?) that, "Hey, if we're gonna expand these trees, and we want to let the players choose one path or the other, maybe we should lock it NOW so they can't get both to get them used to the idea instead of just taking it away later and pishin' people off."  Was anything like that even on the table when you implemented the first set of prestige abilities?  Was it there when you started making the second set (and linking it to the first)?</p><p>Why is every decison seem to be REactive instead of PROactive?</p><p>Do you HAVE a plan for the next year?  Two?  Five?  Or do you literally just look at what the very next new stuff is, put it out, then deal with, change, tweak, or nerf where we're gonna go after what you're implementing now is done?  'Cause let me tell you, that's a sure fire path to oblivion.  I don't even care if you completely FOLLOW the plan (nor would I want you to if you see it's not working) but why does it seem that you don't even HAVE one?</p><p>/sigh  I'm sorry.  I'm just frustrated that every time there's a new content expansion (instead of the feature pack that was AOD) you seem to have to nerf us just so you can then implement new stuff and say, "See, we made stuff that improves you.  There's room to grow. . . . oh, that?  No, we didn't NERF you, you can still DO all the content you were always doing because we nerfed THAT, too!"</p><p>I get it if you want us to have to choose one or the other path of abilities (not that I agree with it . . . but I guess we <strong><em>are</em></strong> in "Your World Now<span style="color: #222222; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: 16px;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">™</span></span>.")  But <strong>please</strong> let us <strong>keep</strong> what you <strong>already</strong> gave us <strong>WITHOUT</strong> taking our abilities away and <strong>THEN</strong> allow us to choose one path or the other.  Then we can (as you so readily tout) "experience Everquest II Free to Play.  <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Your Way</span><span style="background-color: #221f1c; color: #ffffff; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: 16px;">™</span>". (taken directly from your site).  I beg of you, please stop giving with one hand then taking away with the other.  'Cause (I don't know about anyone else) but that's definetly not <strong>MY</strong> way . . .</p><p>- Charn, Silver Medalist, SOE Live Aether Races, 2012</p>

capricorn23
10-28-2012, 08:59 PM
<p>Has anyone recieved any feedback on this issue yet ?</p><p>I keep logging in to see if this has been changed on beta yet, and im growing more and more concerned</p>

Cyrdemac
10-30-2012, 06:05 AM
<p>Nope. Still no feedback on this topic.</p>

Crychtonn
10-30-2012, 03:31 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Locking the trees is necessary because I guarantee you every single class would be taking double conversion if you could get it with 4 points instead of 10. They can't make every aa in the new trees more amazing than a conversion. Not to mention classes that get two new dps spells would be considerably stronger than classes who don't.</p></blockquote><p>If this is their concern then add in a restriction so it works like they currently do.  What I mean by that is if you want to put points in both sides you loose the ability to take the conversion prestige.  I believe most people would be fine with this since it is how it works now.</p><p>People are currently willing to give up the conversion to take a skill on both sides.  Simply add in code if people choose to put points in both sides of the current prestige lines it locks out the ability to take either conversion prestige.</p>

Davngr1
10-30-2012, 04:08 PM
<p>i can't believe no red names have commented on this yet.      it's clearly a concern for everyone and this is a step in the wrong direction.</p>

capricorn23
10-31-2012, 01:18 AM
<p>I hope I dont have to play like this for too long, or i'll probabbly grow tired and  come back after another expansion or two</p>

Aotulan
10-31-2012, 03:22 PM
Still no word on this??

lodgepark8485
10-31-2012, 09:45 PM
<p>You people are MAD!! its no wonder why any red name people haven't responded to this thread!  Everyone shouts we lose this we lose that!! you lose NOTHING! well except maybe for ability to keep ur original double sided spec from lvls 92 to 94... Honestly how long u think you'll be at those levels?  Certainly raiders will grind it in what not even a day?  End result you get what you had before plus the conversion or both and 5-8 points to spend in the bottom to go with it.  Hence you gained not lost!!! Tell me what have you lost? inability to get both sides and an endline? so what.. speccing for the conversion will help ne class out there i dont care who u are and probily more than any endline.</p>

Davngr1
10-31-2012, 10:07 PM
<p><cite>lodgepark8485 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You people are MAD!! its no wonder why any red name people haven't responded to this thread!  Everyone shouts we lose this we lose that!! you lose NOTHING! well except maybe for ability to keep ur original double sided spec from lvls 92 to 94... Honestly how long u think you'll be at those levels?  Certainly raiders will grind it in what not even a day?  End result you get what you had before plus the conversion or both and 5-8 points to spend in the bottom to go with it.  Hence you gained not lost!!! Tell me what have you lost? inability to get both sides and an endline? so what.. speccing for the conversion will help ne class out there i dont care who u are and probily more than any endline.</p></blockquote><p>what?</p><p>  you're painfully ignorant to what is being lost here.</p><p>  the problem is that the first 10 prestige where balanced separately from this set of 15 prestige and devs are trying to force us to take a tree we don't want to keep the our current build.   this would not be problem if both sides where balanced but in most cases they are not balanced what so ever.  </p><p> first ten prestige should lock the top tree and open up the second tree to use the new 15 prestige.</p><p>  this really does require a red name explanation because you're clearly blowing off feedback and that's something that should be explained.</p>

yadlajoi
11-01-2012, 01:10 PM
<p>forced prestige : worst decision ever. thanks for letting us tinker on how we want to spend our prestige. if you are scared about the conversion prestige just create a second tab of prestige like the KoS EoF shadow and DoV AA. Thanks for your time</p>

KenCoop
11-01-2012, 01:35 PM
<p>I haven't quite made it to 95 on test yet, but if I am understanding correctly at 95 both trees unlock, and you can spec some into the other side if haven't taken even point for every ability on the one side.</p><p>if this is the case then this thread seems to be addressing a non-issue, because the player could then either choose to fill up one tree and take the new presitge end line, or to put points into the other tree at that point.</p><p>It seems to be very similar to how the current prestige works on live.</p><p>Perhaps I am misunderstanding, so if someone who has made it to 95 could please clarify I would appreciate it.</p>

Mermut
11-01-2012, 02:54 PM
<p><cite>KenCoop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I haven't quite made it to 95 on test yet, but if I am understanding correctly at 95 both trees unlock, and you can spec some into the other side if haven't taken even point for every ability on the one side.</p><p>if this is the case then this thread seems to be addressing a non-issue, because the player could then either choose to fill up one tree and take the new presitge end line, or to put points into the other tree at that point.</p><p>It seems to be very similar to how the current prestige works on live.</p><p>Perhaps I am misunderstanding, so if someone who has made it to 95 could please clarify I would appreciate it.</p></blockquote><p>You are incorrect. In order to spend a point on the 'other tree' you have to spend 6 additional points in the top 4 bubbles... To sum it up.. you have to fill the entire top row, on beta, if you want to get both tree starters.</p><p>Currently, on live, many people have 6 in the first 4, one in each of the starters, and two in the second on one of the trees.On beta, this is not possible.</p>

KenCoop
11-01-2012, 03:48 PM
<p><cite>Mermut wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>KenCoop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I haven't quite made it to 95 on test yet, but if I am understanding correctly at 95 both trees unlock, and you can spec some into the other side if haven't taken even point for every ability on the one side.</p><p>if this is the case then this thread seems to be addressing a non-issue, because the player could then either choose to fill up one tree and take the new presitge end line, or to put points into the other tree at that point.</p><p>It seems to be very similar to how the current prestige works on live.</p><p>Perhaps I am misunderstanding, so if someone who has made it to 95 could please clarify I would appreciate it.</p></blockquote><p>You are incorrect. In order to spend a point on the 'other tree' you have to spend 6 additional points in the top 4 bubbles... To sum it up.. you have to fill the entire top row, on beta, if you want to get both tree starters.</p><p>Currently, on live, many people have 6 in the first 4, one in each of the starters, and two in the second on one of the trees.On beta, this is not possible.</p></blockquote><p>Oh thanks for clarifying, I was misunderstanding, all the new prestige points I have received i have put into the new tree at this point, so I was not aware that's how you had to do it to access both trees when you were 95.</p><p>(and I did say I was potentially misunderstanding...so that's kind of admitting I was already thinking I may have been incorrect...)</p>

lodgepark8485
11-01-2012, 04:01 PM
<p>In order to spec in both  of the current prestige trees you must now spend 12 in the top line. correct.  But this thread is full of people saying that we lose this we lose that.  you had 10 points prior to this expansion now you have 25.  If you spec the current spec you have now on beta it will take you 16 points that leaves you with 9 MORE than you had before plus 2 new abilities that many say are worthless but hey every little bit does something. </p><p>I dont know exactly what every class has in those first lines but im sure people are calling the useless ones ive seen which many classes share, are the ones that debuff 2% potency and what not or add 3 flurry. But if you look at it thats 48% potency debuff on the mob if every one specced that way or grp gets 18% flurry (and yes i know not all classes share those exact ones just using them for an example but many do). HOW is that useless?</p><p>Many classes have sides that arent balanced but on those it sure seems like taking both conversions is an equal compromise.  If you like one of the end lines SO MUCH.  Guess you'll have to decide whether its worth changing from your current spec.  But again I repeat you LOSE nothing!!! how is 9 more points and 2 new abilities in the top row useless losing?</p>

lodgepark8485
11-01-2012, 04:20 PM
<p>Just did a quick look to see exactly what each class so called useless AAs are...</p><p>Scouts - potency debuff on mob 3% = usually a minmum of 6 scouts in a raid = 18% potency debuff</p><p>- 3% flurry to grp = 6-9% flurry in scout grps for everyone in that grp</p><p>Tanks - Either increased damage on some CAs or reduced incoming damage, a toss up cuz tanks seem to already shoose either or - and a grp dmg proc</p><p>Mages - 1% double cast = 1-3% dbl cast in mage grps</p><p>- 2% increased health power and healing amount = 2-6% in all grps</p><p>Healers - 5% reduced incoming damage = 10% reduced damage not sure if it stacks but all the rest do so why not to grp</p><p>- 3% double cast and 10% flurry to healed target</p><p>Pretty useless stuff huh? May not be first choice but its definately not useless </p>

Orthureon
11-01-2012, 04:22 PM
<p><cite>KenCoop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I haven't quite made it to 95 on test yet, but if I am understanding correctly at 95 both trees unlock, and you can spec some into the other side if haven't taken even point for every ability on the one side.</p><p>if this is the case then this thread seems to be addressing a non-issue, because the player could then either choose to fill up one tree and take the new presitge end line, or to put points into the other tree at that point.</p><p>It seems to be very similar to how the current prestige works on live.</p><p>Perhaps I am misunderstanding, so if someone who has made it to 95 could please clarify I would appreciate it.</p></blockquote><p>Ken the main guff here is that you must now pretty much waste 6 more points on the top tier line to be able to purchase the abilities you are already using CURRENTLY. Yes you will get access to new things come the expansion and still be able to spec into the things you had, but you have just wasted 6+ points by doing so.</p><p>We are asking that they lock the choice to one conversion, and once the conversion is chosen, or you spend 10 points in the regular prestige line it then opens up the bottom prestige. Simple solution.</p>

lodgepark8485
11-01-2012, 04:41 PM
<p>^^^Your way would create an imbalance.  Although personally for my classes i would love it.</p>

Leawyn
11-01-2012, 06:18 PM
<p><p><cite>lodgepark8485 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>In order to spec in both  of the current prestige trees you must now spend 12 in the top line. correct.  But this thread is full of people saying that we lose this we lose that.  you had 10 points prior to this expansion now you have 25.  If you spec the current spec you have now on beta it will take you 16 points that leaves you with 9 MORE than you had before plus 2 new abilities that many say are worthless but hey every little bit does something. </p></blockquote><p>You don't see a problem at all that instead of getting 15 new points to spend, as we all were anticipating, we only get 9? Or that instead of costing 10 points to have what we have now, it would cost 16? How is this OK? They're literally taking away something and making us get 6 more points to get it back.</p></p><p><cite>lodgepark8485 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>^^^Your way would create an imbalance.  Although personally for my classes i would love it.</p></blockquote><p><p><span style="font-size: 11px;">How would it cause an imbalance? You can't just say it would and not explain why you think so. I think locking to a single tree after 10 points are spent (thus allowing you to put 1 point in the other tree if you choose without it costing you 6 points to get!) will accomplish what they want (avoiding double dipping on the conversions) without blocking us from logging in day 1 of the expansion and losing an ability if we're spec'd that way.</span></p></p>

Davngr1
11-01-2012, 08:30 PM
<p><cite>lodgepark8485 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>^^^Your way would create an imbalance.  Although personally for my classes i would love it.</p></blockquote><p>  there is no imbalance what so ever unless you claim that there is an imbalance on live currently.  </p>

Cyrdemac
11-02-2012, 08:42 AM
<p>It's simple. You can't keep your current spec (if cross specced) unless you spend more points into useless skills. And by doing so, you also can't reach the bottom skills.</p><p>Therefore you are forced to give up something you learned to like and play with to enjoy the new stuff coming in CoE. And being forced to give something up, is loosing something imho.</p><p>It's like stealing someones car and giving it back when he pays you some of the money he just found. In your opinion, he didn't lost anything, because he can still keep his (bought-back) car and enjoy the money he got left.</p>

Orthureon
11-02-2012, 01:14 PM
<p><cite>Cyrdemac wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>It's like stealing someones car and giving it back when he pays you some of the money he just found. In your opinion, he didn't lost anything, because he can still keep his (bought-back) car and enjoy the money he got left.</blockquote><p>Lol I love the analogy!</p>

yadlajoi
11-02-2012, 03:44 PM
the analogy is wrong cause you paid a ransom for your car only to realise they changed your engine to a lower version.

shannontroester
11-03-2012, 12:43 AM
<p>atleast both of the coercer "endlines" suck so I can just get both conversions (12 pot=1cb and then 12 cb=1 pot) lol</p>

yadlajoi
11-03-2012, 08:34 AM
another update and still no change to the forced prestige path. either right or left...

Maroger
11-03-2012, 03:23 PM
<p><cite>Cyrdemac wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's simple. You can't keep your current spec (if cross specced) unless you spend more points into useless skills. And by doing so, you also can't reach the bottom skills.</p><p>Therefore you are forced to give up something you learned to like and play with to enjoy the new stuff coming in CoE. And being forced to give something up, is loosing something imho.</p><p>It's like stealing someones car and giving it back when he pays you some of the money he just found. In your opinion, he didn't lost anything, because he can still keep his (bought-back) car and enjoy the money he got left.</p></blockquote><p>But this is the way SOE development work. Take something away you already have and make you get it again in the next expansion. Although what they give you is alway worse than what you had. This is the SOE development path ALWAYS</p>

Frezzyisfuzzy
11-06-2012, 06:17 PM
<p>I'm a little late to the party, but my vote is also strongly in favor of splitting the top and bottom trees.  As it is, you're really limiting the diversity for new specs.  Isn't it kinda the point of these things to let us tailor the character's abilities to our playstyle?  </p>

Mogrim
11-07-2012, 07:16 PM
<p>How about an easily implimented compromise position. 4 points to open a tree, 8 points to open both.</p>

Orthureon
11-08-2012, 12:20 PM
<p><span style="font-size: xx-large;">GIVE US FREEDOM OF CHOICE IN CoE 2012!!!</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Idea 1:</span></strong></span></p><ul><li><span style="font-size: small;">Open the trees up and let people progress through them in a tier style but can choose any ability from either tree once "x" amount of points have been spent in each tier. No exception, completely open after tier point requirements are met, ALA Heroic Tree.</span></li></ul><p><span style="font-size: small;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Idea 2:</span></strong></span></p><ul><li><span style="font-size: small;">Open the trees up and let people progress through them in a tier style but can choose any ability from either tree once "x" amount of points have been spent in each tier. Exception, conversions locked to one choice.</span></li></ul><p><span style="font-size: small;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Idea 3:</span></strong></span></p><ul><li><span style="font-size: small;">Once you spend 6 points in the 1st tier abilities it unlocks BOTH side's second tier abilities. Then simply lock the top trees after 10 points spent, take an endline or not 10 points spent opens the bottom tree. This will limit you to one conversion still and allow access to all the new goodies.</span></li></ul>

Frezzyisfuzzy
11-08-2012, 08:00 PM
<p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: xx-large;">GIVE US FREEDOM OF CHOICE IN CoE 2012!!!</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Idea 1:</span></strong></span></p><ul><li><span style="font-size: small;">Open the trees up and let people progress through them in a tier style but can choose any ability from either tree once "x" amount of points have been spent in each tier. No exception, completely open after tier point requirements are met, ALA Heroic Tree.</span></li></ul><p><span style="font-size: small;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Idea 2:</span></strong></span></p><ul><li><span style="font-size: small;">Open the trees up and let people progress through them in a tier style but can choose any ability from either tree once "x" amount of points have been spent in each tier. Exception, conversions locked to one choice.</span></li></ul><p><span style="font-size: small;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Idea 3:</span></strong></span></p><ul><li><span style="font-size: small;">Once you spend 6 points in the 1st tier abilities it unlocks BOTH side's second tier abilities. Then simply lock the top trees after 10 points spent, take an endline or not 10 points spent opens the bottom tree. This will limit you to one conversion still and allow access to all the new goodies.</span></li></ul></blockquote><p>These.  Any of these.  Please God give us any of these options so I don't have to hate myself as I spend my new prestige points.</p>

macStuibhart
11-09-2012, 06:00 PM
<p>As I have now read the whole thread all I see is a lot of bickering back and forth etween the players.  Instead of bickering, fighting and making general nuisances of ourselves why doesn't everyone get together and work out a comprehensive plan to put forth to the devs and see what they think?  I have a couple toons that will lose out in this depending on what the choices are, I haven't looked at them all yet, but in the end I might come up with something better but I do know that with all of us yelling and clamouring for the changes we want we aren't going to get anything effected because the devs will probably just ignore us.  Its kind of like my kids, when they are both yelling and screaming they get put in their room and left to stew until they are willing to do what they needed to do in the first place.  Until we stop the yelling and screaming the devs are better off letting us blow off the steam and then come in when we are reasonable again.</p>