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latesttoon
08-23-2012, 10:39 PM
<p>Please FIX..</p><p>example of exploit (although maybe a strong word)</p><p>if a Cleric is in gears/openworld PVP... he can cast DG before he or his group enters pvp combat, and have the full PVE benefit of DG in PVP.. i.e. NOT 10 Triggers.</p><p>this means the group is <strong><span style="font-size: medium; color: #00ccff;">invulverable </span></strong>for 20 seconds ? (not sure the exact duration).</p><p>I know this has been the case for a while.. but it really needs a fix... as the first 20seconds of a fight are the most important, especially when you pop all your temps at the start... </p><p>This happens in open world PVP also, and if you do not have a cleric who does the same, then it usually mean certain instant death against a stacked group, and you cannot harm them.</p><p>Also.. I have to say it.. but immaculate instant revive full hp/power is overpowered in PVP if you do not have a cleric in the group.</p><p>or Druids need something similar (don't say rebirth is similar)... as there is now raid pvp, x2s, x3s, x4s... it is impossible you could kill these raids even if you managed to burn down the healers.. as they can just cast this spell and be back up, + all the other revives available... this is the same situation in a 6 v 6 with 2 healers in each group.. the group with the cleric has a massive advantage due to immaculate revival.. just my perception of PVP over a long time . You could say, "well get a cleric".. but does that mean you must always have a Cleric as the primary healer in a 6 v 6 (or more) in order to win (if evenly skilled players).. a shaman + druid is always going to be at a massive disadvantage to a Cleric + Any other healer.</p><p>Thanks</p><p>PVP Player 342</p>

Baackdoor
08-23-2012, 11:42 PM
<p>Just time your temps better. Big surprise there.</p>

Crismorn
08-24-2012, 03:57 AM
<p>It has always worked like this, just like every other ability in eq2.</p>

latesttoon
08-24-2012, 06:39 AM
<p>@Baackdoor</p><p>eh?... if it takes a heavy dps group 15 seconds to kill you, and they are invulnerable for 20seconds.. there is not much you can do by timing temps... maybe you could use all your AoE immunes and let them save theirs till DG has worn off.</p><p>@Davionxx</p><p>yes it has, except previously only the duration in PVP was reduced.. so by casting it before you engaged you got the PVE duration...... BUT now, Divine Guindance only has 10 Triggers-- unless you use this exploit, which means invulnerability to the group + PVE duration</p>

Baackdoor
08-24-2012, 03:16 PM
<p>it's not really an exploit. so not sure why you keep calling it that.</p>

Daalilama
08-24-2012, 05:37 PM
<p><cite>latesttoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please FIX..</p><p>example of exploit (although maybe a strong word)</p><p>if a Cleric is in gears/openworld PVP... he can cast DG before he or his group enters pvp combat, and have the full PVE benefit of DG in PVP.. i.e. NOT 10 Triggers.</p><p>this means the group is <strong><span style="color: #00ccff; font-size: medium;">invulverable </span></strong>for 20 seconds ? (not sure the exact duration).</p><p>I know this has been the case for a while.. but it really needs a fix... as the first 20seconds of a fight are the most important, especially when you pop all your temps at the start... </p><p>This happens in open world PVP also, and if you do not have a cleric who does the same, then it usually mean certain instant death against a stacked group, and you cannot harm them.</p><p>Also.. I have to say it.. but immaculate instant revive full hp/power is overpowered in PVP if you do not have a cleric in the group.</p><p>or Druids need something similar (don't say rebirth is similar)... as there is now raid pvp, x2s, x3s, x4s... it is impossible you could kill these raids even if you managed to burn down the healers.. as they can just cast this spell and be back up, + all the other revives available... this is the same situation in a 6 v 6 with 2 healers in each group.. the group with the cleric has a massive advantage due to immaculate revival.. just my perception of PVP over a long time . You could say, "well get a cleric".. but does that mean you must always have a Cleric as the primary healer in a 6 v 6 (or more) in order to win (if evenly skilled players).. a shaman + druid is always going to be at a massive disadvantage to a Cleric + Any other healer.</p><p>Thanks</p><p>PVP Player 342</p></blockquote><p>LOL crying to get a standard mechanic changed just so you are happy has about as much chance of being addressed as SOE addressing the long broken game mechanics/classes/etc.  DG used to be pretty powerful in pvp now after 2 successful nerfs its meh....however your primary complaint stems from the fact that a cleric popped it before him or his grp was engaed in pvp (oh no not another smart player) and got the full benefit of that ability.  Same can be said of just about any temp ability from any class.   As for immaculate revival....I would be very careful trying to get this nerfed as its not op however I have seen quite a few poorly skilled players call for immediate nerfs to incombat rezes (primarily healers) and put them on 30 min timers at best if not out right remove them.  SOE is notoriously known for slippery slope nerfs.</p><p>P.S. why is it players consistently try and get healers nerfed so they can try and get back to the 30 sec pvp fights group or otherwise.  L2Play</p>

Malleria
08-24-2012, 09:30 PM
<p><cite>latesttoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>p.s. i dont need to learn to play although from your name (which i've never heard of), i think, YOU need to L2P <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>From the person posting anonymously. Brilliant <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

latesttoon
08-24-2012, 09:57 PM
<p>thanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Daalilama
08-25-2012, 01:19 AM
<p><cite>latesttoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">*Please do not quote form violations*</span></p></blockquote><p>Hmm really so your played a templar for more than 7 years on pvp servers? Or have played on pvp servers?  Aside from making me chuckle a bit (always get a laugh when someone gets called on their misconceptions...as for knowing more about my class than me whatever man...keep staying anon)</p><p>If you truely believe DG popped before pvp is engaged is op (DG will not stop a smart directed effort by one group to kill another...it makes it harder but not impossible) then I suggest you may want to take a hard look at every classes temp abilities and compare them and I guess the your nerf line forms at the left.</p><p>My assumption that you are either a new player to the naggy server or an old player on a blue server who's pvp experience stems from a year or so of battleground runs...regardless I'll give you a serious golf clap.</p>

Baackdoor
08-25-2012, 05:55 AM
<p>I wish people weren't so ignorant =/ just because you are bad at dps in whatever "pvp" group you run doesnt mean healers need more nerfs. pls go.</p>

latesttoon
08-25-2012, 08:56 AM
<p>well i'm not very new, our group has been successful in PVP since the start, and has lost no 6 v 6 in over 1 year.</p><p>Previously to that when i played then, we virtually never lost in PVP either... and yes, we can DPS.</p><p>Because someone is anonymous, don't assume they are "new"</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMiUdcPsUuI">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMiUdcPsUuI</a></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrqbT6YaxAA">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrqbT6YaxAA</a></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nTeBVlts74">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nTeBVlts74</a></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_EHs5K7TCA">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_EHs5K7TCA</a></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oH1q0rKezA">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oH1q0rKezA</a></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQlZ61Sltj8&feature=plcp">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQlZ...j8&feature=plcp</a></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZlhKqU7GVg">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZlhKqU7GVg</a></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxctQsiReCg">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxctQsiReCg</a></p><p>thanks</p>

latesttoon
08-25-2012, 02:24 PM
<p>being ignorant about game mechanics = denying DG being cast just before engaging in PVP combat is np</p>

latesttoon
08-25-2012, 03:41 PM
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #d2c5a9; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: #221f1c;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">Actually as I said being ignorant = focusing on DG being cast prior to being engaged in pvp while ignoring every other classes temp buffs,</span></span></p><p>give me example of something comparable</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #d2c5a9; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: #221f1c;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">And again if you cant kill a group for the oh no 20 secs that DG is up and not affected by pvp rulesets means you have no clue on pvp tactics and clearly lack an understanding group strategy.</span></span></p><p>eh? you can't kill the group if they have DG UP when exploited in this way --- unless you had perfect single target DPS on one character of which every attack does over the proc size of DG.. which.. is going to be practically impossible.</p><p>trollmuch? or just extremely ignorant and have no clue about PVP in eq2??</p><p>p.s. do you want some tips on how to play your toon even though i've never played a templar?</p>

Davngr1
08-25-2012, 04:30 PM
<p>not an exploit since you can't use it while in combat.</p>

latesttoon
08-25-2012, 04:52 PM
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: #221f1c;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">Just off the top of my head, focused aim by rangers, </span></span></p><p>Terrible example considering it is not what it used to be... the worst example ever i'm afraid.. wow, did you stop playing?</p><p>in addition, it's not comparable at all to DG even if it was like it was a while back.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: #221f1c;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">Getting upset about a percieved exploit when there isnt one because person Y in group B popped a temp buff before you and your group could engage is really kinda sad</span></span></p><p>not upset at all i'm afraid, the few times it's happened, they still died... mainly due to the fact that it's been in Gears, or in the wild vs duos and treos..  it will be a required FIX</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: #221f1c;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">In addition, this same sort of unchanged ability/buff mechanic does the same thing with deity heals, nuke, etc.</span></span></p><p>great, so you have some additions to the required changes (probably mischief maker can be cast before you engage)</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: #221f1c;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">The fact is smart pvp players or groups read the buffs and can adjust strats based up this (you could dispell or slow up dps to buy time till it ends and those are a few standard tactics).</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;">EDIT: i don't think you have fought against a good DPS group.. in 20seconds your entire group will be dead against a good group.. where do you PVP? have you ever?.. </span></p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;">So you want to allow an A Team HIGH DPS group lash out dps on your group while you sit back and wait for it to wear off (without broken DG) for 20seconds? ... so you want the none dg groups healers/tank to use all their temps to stay alive (if they can, which is unlikely)</span></p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;">then when DG is off, the non DG group goes full dps? </span></p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;">that's like playing russian rulette with 5 bullets in the gun, and saying, "i'll go first"</span></p><p>since DG has been introduced to Clerics i have never seen in dispelled, even though we have tried to dispell it probably more times than you have <em>zoned</em> into KP itself</p><p>You most definetly have no idea about PVP tactics or i would have seen you pvping and beign successful</p><p>also, you being a templar and trying to stop a clearly broken mechanic from being fixed, states that you are terrible <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> Probably you are one of those people that used to go around one shottted people with god spells as you couldn't understand pvp strategies and tactics, and needed to use lame tricks to win.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: #221f1c;">The fact is smart pvp players or groups read the buffs</span></p><p>still laughing at this, and you are a smart player?</p>

latesttoon
08-25-2012, 04:53 PM
<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>not an exploit since you can't use it while in combat.</p></blockquote><p>ok.. it's not really an exploit.. but it is an important problem that needs to be fixed.</p>

latesttoon
08-25-2012, 05:10 PM
<p>I've just thought of a FIX for this:</p><p>a long time ago, Defilers used to cast soul ward on themselves so they were under 50% hp so they could not lose fame in PVP...</p><p>the fix was this:</p><p><em><span style="color: #33cccc;">you cannot use the ability until you enter combat.</span></em></p><p>of course you could get around it.. but it would be much harder when time is of the essence</p>

Crismorn
08-25-2012, 05:27 PM
<p>That would hurt the ability in pve content, soul warding then healing to full pre-pull should not take place which is why it was changed.  DG has a HP % boost that is important for on inc pve content.</p><p>Your only chance is to put the cleric into combat before he uses the ability or spike them down with big hits, dont just run into them and run through your pve cast order or obviously you wuill just heal them up over and over or wait the ~14s.</p><p>Unless SoE can make it so abilities change based on in/out dmg during combat which will fix all abilities/temp buffs from pve > pvp.  making DG only usable in combat would damage its use in pve content as its nothing like soul warding for a ton of survivability pre-pull</p>

latesttoon
08-25-2012, 05:37 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That would hurt the ability in pve content, soul warding then healing to full pre-pull should not take place which is why it was changed.  DG has a HP % boost that is important for on inc pve content.</p><p>Your only chance is to put the cleric into combat before he uses the ability or spike them down with big hits, dont just run into them and run through your pve cast order or obviously you wuill just heal them up over and over or wait the ~14s.</p><p>Unless SoE can make it so abilities change based on in/out dmg during combat which will fix all abilities/temp buffs from pve > pvp.  making DG only usable in combat would damage its use in pve content as its nothing like soul warding for a ton of survivability pre-pull</p></blockquote><p>yes the only option at the moment is to try to put an arrow in them.. but 90% of the time, a good stacked group waiting to charge a 6 v 6 will normally hide the healers at the back, wihch means running in almost melee range to reach them, by which time its to late as they think you are charging to engage... you can of course do a fake charge, which people used to do so the other team would burn their temps (sanctuary etc)..</p><p>edit: burning them down really is too hard with standard heals and deathsaves going off at the same time... maybe an assassin + wizard combo could do it.. but the problem now, is even 1 auto attack probably procs it off numerous times and is way under the size of the DG heal.</p><p>maybe it would dmg clerics in PVE... but a solution is needed as it is clearly BAD for pvp.</p>

Avirodar
08-25-2012, 11:13 PM
<p><cite>latesttoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That would hurt the ability in pve content, soul warding then healing to full pre-pull should not take place which is why it was changed.  DG has a HP % boost that is important for on inc pve content.</p><p>Your only chance is to put the cleric into combat before he uses the ability or spike them down with big hits, dont just run into them and run through your pve cast order or obviously you wuill just heal them up over and over or wait the ~14s.</p><p>Unless SoE can make it so abilities change based on in/out dmg during combat which will fix all abilities/temp buffs from pve > pvp.  making DG only usable in combat would damage its use in pve content as its nothing like soul warding for a ton of survivability pre-pull</p></blockquote><p>yes the only option at the moment is to try to put an arrow in them.. but 90% of the time, a good stacked group waiting to charge a 6 v 6 will normally hide the healers at the back, wihch means running in almost melee range to reach them, by which time its to late as they think you are charging to engage... you can of course do a fake charge, which people used to do so the other team would burn their temps (sanctuary etc)..</p><p>edit: burning them down really is too hard with standard heals and deathsaves going off at the same time... maybe an assassin + wizard combo could do it.. but the problem now, <strong><span style="color: #ff00ff;">is even 1 auto attack probably procs it off numerous times</span></strong> and is way under the size of the DG heal.</p><p>maybe it would dmg clerics in PVE... but a solution is needed as it is clearly BAD for pvp.</p></blockquote><p>I almost ended up with coffee on my screen. But thank you for making me laugh. You clearly have no idea how reactives work. And you clearly have no idea that PVP in EQ2 is a washed up side project. No change should ever happen, to any class, to any ability, that affects PVE, because of PVP.EQ2 was built from the ground up, to be a PVE game. Yes, PVP was a slapped-on-afterthought. If SOE tries to make any changes to the game as a whole, to cater to PVP gameplay, there is only one inevitable result. This is because the SOE EQ2 team lacks the manpower and experience to do it correctly.Anyway, grats on trying to imply that your an unbeatable PVP guru, that does not even know how reactives work, yet is standing here calling for a reactive to be nerfed. I'll take Daali's advice long before your own.</p>

latesttoon
08-25-2012, 11:22 PM
<p>in pvp, it needs fixing</p><p>obviously you have no idea how reactives work in pvp when hit with dualweild autoattack, and how much it hits for after the current patch in comparison to how much DG heals for.. </p><p>go back to pve board</p>

Avirodar
08-25-2012, 11:38 PM
<p><cite>latesttoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>in pvp, it needs fixing</p><p>obviously you have no idea how reactives work in pvp when hit with dualweild autoattack, and how much it hits for after the current patch in comparison to how much DG heals for.. </p><p>go back to pve board</p></blockquote><p>I know exactly how reactives work, including with dual wield. I am not the one guessing (as you did a few posts above) how reactives work, while calling for nerfs, and expressing little/no concern for if it affects PVE gameplay (as you did).And I like it right here, tyvm.</p>

latesttoon
08-26-2012, 12:08 AM
<p>why do you want to keep broken mechanic in the game? oh, you're a templar and it makes you feel good to have an overpowered practically cheating ability because you can't heal without it,</p><p>You are using a loop hole to circumvent a PVP Patch which was intended to nerf the OP ability.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">I've played this game over 7 years strictly on pvp servers and tbh like most of the long term community on both types of servers I'm more familar with the games current mechanics then the devs and sadly you.</span></strong></p><p>1. assuming you know a lot, which I seriously doubt from your previous comments, why have people never heard of you? When have you put up a good fight vs the best groups of every expansion? e.g. KoS with Onyx, Kraken, Purity, Darkhand? where were you?.. and up till recently, when  have put up a good fight with Replaced/Displaced, Purity, The Fishermen?</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">I dont seem to recall ever running into you...by your names listed below...must have been perma invis or maybe using the old merge exploiting walls and buildings..lol</span></strong></p><p>2. you must have played 1 hour a day maximum, or pve'd on a pvp server to much.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">I have seen my DG stripped mind you not very often but yes do I know how and what exactly was used no I didnt dwell on it like a 5 y/o and continued keeping my group alive.</span></strong></p><p>3. assuming you are correct, which i find hard to believe as everything else that you say is dribble, counting on dispelling broken pre-casted DG in a 6 v 6 when guild rep is on the line is not a suitable solution. Our group could use the "loop hole" too if we wanted, but why would we want to use a lame cheat?</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: #221f1c;"> </span><strong>TBH your vids were so damm blurry was hard to make anyones name out...all ya had to do in the first place instead of posting blurry vids and a healthy dose of chest beating was say who was your main.</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span>4. Well, the names you saw us/me fighting were mostly some of the best pvp'rs in the game. If you actually pvp'd from the start till now, you would have heard of them. I posted the videos in response to you and other posting stating my group does not know how to dps, how to pvp, and that we are new. The videos date back from kos till almost now.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">Never been successful in pvp lol....tbh just because im pretty good in pvp (I've never said I was the best) I dont need to pound my chest and proclaim it to the server or game...geez its a game for petes sake.  The reason I as well as others called you out is because the is no exploit...calling the game mechanic otherwise is kinda hollow and if you were a long term pvp player you would have known this.  I'd venture to say that some if not all the players you group with would agree with me that its not an exploit...but whatever man you continue to talk down to those that have played as long if not longer as if your some "pvp guru" as was stated.  Now you may not like the way mechanics work in the gray area between pve to pvp and thats the way you should have made your argument but you didnt and contiued to harp on a non existent exploit regardless of what others advised...you really should stop assuming that if you cant 2 button anyone in pvp its an automatic exploit kinda makes you look completely sad.</span></strong></p><p>sorry, but i don't read walls of text, hurts my eyes.. i did read the first sentence... "Never been successful in pvp lol".. well i'm glad we finally agree on something.</p>

latesttoon
08-26-2012, 01:29 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>latesttoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>in pvp, it needs fixing</p><p>obviously you have no idea how reactives work in pvp when hit with dualweild autoattack, and how much it hits for after the current patch in comparison to how much DG heals for.. </p><p>go back to pve board</p></blockquote><p>I know exactly how reactives work, including with dual wield. I am not the one guessing (as you did a few posts above) how reactives work, while calling for nerfs, and expressing little/no concern for if it affects PVE gameplay (as you did).And I like it right here, tyvm.</p></blockquote><p>the words came out wrong i suppose... i know how reactives work but thanks for the comforting</p><p>we was talking about spiking down someone with "inifnite trigger" DG..</p><p>a more in depth explanation for you not that you care at all, as you are a just a "forum warrior"</p><p>if an assassin used a big hit, he's "likely" to follow through with his auto attack, which with dualwield on plate, may do 2k dmg with this update (including the 1 extra multiattack), 2 procs of DG is going to heal for over 10k in pvp.. so, if you could spike through DG + wards/other reactives, and other healers heals, then you'd have to be very "hard". You'd also have to not get taunted and not do any AE-Autoattacks  to heal him/her some more... going to be virtually impossible with recent changes.</p><p>as for expressing little/no concern for it affects in PVE, i clearly did express concern after Davionxx pointed out that templars use it pre pull on some/all mobs.. "<span style="background-color: #221f1c; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="color: #00ff00;">maybe it would dmg clerics in PVE... but a solution is needed as it is clearly BAD for pvp."</span></span></p><p>i wouldn't know this because i'm not a carebear</p>

Baackdoor
08-26-2012, 01:54 AM
<p>Solution: time your temps better and dont blow your load when u see DG up. thanks</p>

Davito
08-26-2012, 02:00 AM
<p>Not even gonna go into the amount of wrong you are in to say that DG is completely OP and that no other class has abilities that work like this before PvP combat.  There would be a solid line of 5-6 classes off the top of my head that would have their temps nerfed before DG if you want to talk about them being OP.</p><p>P.S. stop being butt-hurt because some no name person sat on your face in pvp 1 time just cuz of DG.</p><p>P.S.S I just heard in vent that you are a troub.  I cant believe you are talking about DG being op.  Keep talking and your class will get revealed and troubs will get fed to the dogs too.</p>

Daalilama
08-26-2012, 02:27 AM
<p><cite>latesttoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>why do you want to keep broken mechanic in the game? oh, you're a templar and it makes you feel good to have an overpowered practically cheating ability because you can't heal without it,</p><p>You are using a loop hole to circumvent a PVP Patch which was intended to nerf the OP ability.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">I've played this game over 7 years strictly on pvp servers and tbh like most of the long term community on both types of servers I'm more familar with the games current mechanics then the devs and sadly you.</span></strong></p><p>1. assuming you know a lot, which I seriously doubt from your previous comments, why have people never heard of you? When have you put up a good fight vs the best groups of every expansion? e.g. KoS with Onyx, Kraken, Purity, Darkhand? where were you?.. and up till recently, when  have put up a good fight with Replaced/Displaced, Purity, The Fishermen?</p><p><strong> Geez do I really have to go through my life in this game for a keyboard cowboy...Lets see kos I was on vox back when they had a decent population...came to naggy in early rok (fought onyx, maybe kraken but its been a while so I dont remember that far back faced the displaced/replaced members in various incarnations, fought among purity members as for the fishermen fought them at various points...tbh who cares...as for who I am I'm pretty sure most onyx, purity, displaced/replaced members know who I am I dont hide under a rock or sit in my guild hall pounding my chest at the size of my pvp title (though I have a funny feeling you may fall into this category).  You do interest me so I'm going to ask the players I know in freeport who you are...I'd venture to say they might repond with a hearty "who?"</strong></p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">I dont seem to recall ever running into you...by your names listed below...must have been perma invis or maybe using the old merge exploiting walls and buildings..lol</span></strong></p><p>2. you must have played 1 hour a day maximum, or pve'd on a pvp server to much.</p><p> <strong>Keep telling yourself that...</strong></p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">I have seen my DG stripped mind you not very often but yes do I know how and what exactly was used no I didnt dwell on it like a 5 y/o and continued keeping my group alive.</span></strong></p><p>3. assuming you are correct, which i find hard to believe as everything else that you say is dribble, counting on dispelling broken pre-casted DG in a 6 v 6 when guild rep is on the line is not a suitable solution. Our group could use the "loop hole" too if we wanted, but why would we want to use a lame cheat?</p><p> <strong>Yeah true I dont know why someone like myself who has played templar for 7 years would have a clue what hes talking about....and again it is neither a cheat or an exploit  maybe you should try and figure out why everyone responding is laughing at you like you just started playing on a pvp server yesterday.</strong></p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="background-color: #221f1c; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span><strong>TBH your vids were so damm blurry was hard to make anyones name out...all ya had to do in the first place instead of posting blurry vids and a healthy dose of chest beating was say who was your main.</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span>4. Well, the names you saw us/me fighting were mostly some of the best pvp'rs in the game. If you actually pvp'd from the start till now, you would have heard of them. I posted the videos in response to you and other posting stating my group does not know how to dps, how to pvp, and that we are new. The videos date back from kos till almost now.</p><p><strong> I said your vids were blurry and that you speak as if you dont know how to pvp or the diffrences in mechanics for pve and pvp....tbh if the vids are ture you have made yourself out to be someone without any clue for pvp...pushing 3 buttons yawn.</strong></p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">Never been successful in pvp lol....tbh just because im pretty good in pvp (I've never said I was the best) I dont need to pound my chest and proclaim it to the server or game...geez its a game for petes sake.  The reason I as well as others called you out is because the is no exploit...calling the game mechanic otherwise is kinda hollow and if you were a long term pvp player you would have known this.  I'd venture to say that some if not all the players you group with would agree with me that its not an exploit...but whatever man you continue to talk down to those that have played as long if not longer as if your some "pvp guru" as was stated.  Now you may not like the way mechanics work in the gray area between pve to pvp and thats the way you should have made your argument but you didnt and contiued to harp on a non existent exploit regardless of what others advised...you really should stop assuming that if you cant 2 button anyone in pvp its an automatic exploit kinda makes you look completely sad.</span></strong></p><p>sorry, but i don't read walls of text, hurts my eyes.. i did read the first sentence... "Never been successful in pvp lol".. well i'm glad we finally agree on something.</p><p> <strong>Dude you are a legend in your own mind.</strong></p></blockquote>

latesttoon
08-26-2012, 02:48 AM
<p>@backdoor</p><p>bring me a group with 2 healers, 1 tank, and 3 dps/support of any kind.... i will bring our group and we will use DG out of pvp combat just before engaging. Just save your temps till it's worn off, you will be fine....</p><p>@carebear</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #d2c5a9; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: #221f1c;">"Two procs of DG -is- going to heal for over 10k in PVP? You are making some rather grand assumptions. Bonus points if you can work out why? The more you talk, the more evident it becomes that you do not play a healer, and your grasp on heal mechanics is "average" at best. I doubt you could handle the challenge of playing a healer in todays environment, PVE or PVP alike."</span></p><p>i'm sorry carebear, i was just taking an average, 7k to 13k  --- (and this with someone with average gear) - none crit to crit ... i also never included the proc from the actual combat art itself.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #d2c5a9; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: #221f1c;">"I will continue to inform you that PVP in EQ2 is just a side gimmick, that SOE tacked on long after the game was launched. When added, players of EQ2 were promised that no change would ever affect PVE, because of PVP. EQ2 was not created with PVP in mind, and it shows. The amount of Dev resources SOE invests into PVP, says enough."</span></p><p>Changing DG in PVP so that it does not cause group invulnerability does not have to effect PVE. worst case scenareo, it can be disabled in KP and BGs. are you get angry because i called you a carebear??</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #d2c5a9; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: #221f1c;">"If you desire a game that invests more resources into PVP mechanics, continuing to play EQ2 is akin to banging your head against a brick wall. When I want PVP, I play a game that is designed for PVP. I rock EQ2 on a blue server, because blue is an amazing color, and PVE is what EQ2 is designed for. Better than being on a pink server, on a game not designed for PVP, getting all bent out of shape over an ability they do not fully understand".</span></p><p>EQ2 may not have been designed for pvp, but it has pvp and that is why i play it.. don't get mad, i also played this game since launch for PVE too. one day when you are good enough to compete against enemies that can think for themselves in a game that you know so much about, you might come to nagafen... at the moment, you will probably only last 20seconds (get it? because of DG.. haha i'm funny)</p><p>p.s. i will never play a game in the future solely for PVE</p><p>@Davito</p><p>wow, talking in vent, now i feel special</p><p>no one sat on my face cus of DG.. I was just pointing out a SERIOUS none intended PVP problem.. if you know 5 or 6 classes which have pre-pvp-combat OP buffs more powerful than DG, then you should share them instead of keeping these none pvp intended overpowered buffs to yourself because you cannot play the game fairly as it was meant to be.</p><p>I will start, as a troub.. probably (never tried it) but Veil of Notes probably works for the PVE duration if you use it before you engage... but really if i do neeed to use it, i do it during combat... I mostly group pvp anyway.</p>

latesttoon
08-26-2012, 02:59 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>latesttoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>why do you want to keep broken mechanic in the game? oh, you're a templar and it makes you feel good to have an overpowered practically cheating ability because you can't heal without it,</p><p>You are using a loop hole to circumvent a PVP Patch which was intended to nerf the OP ability.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">I've played this game over 7 years strictly on pvp servers and tbh like most of the long term community on both types of servers I'm more familar with the games current mechanics then the devs and sadly you.</span></strong></p><p>1. assuming you know a lot, which I seriously doubt from your previous comments, why have people never heard of you? When have you put up a good fight vs the best groups of every expansion? e.g. KoS with Onyx, Kraken, Purity, Darkhand? where were you?.. and up till recently, when  have put up a good fight with Replaced/Displaced, Purity, The Fishermen?</p><p><strong> Geez do I really have to go through my life in this game for a keyboard cowboy...Lets see kos I was on vox back when they had a decent population...came to naggy in early rok (fought onyx, maybe kraken but its been a while so I dont remember that far back faced the displaced/replaced members in various incarnations, fought among purity members as for the fishermen fought them at various points...tbh who cares...as for who I am I'm pretty sure most onyx, purity, displaced/replaced members know who I am I dont hide under a rock or sit in my guild hall pounding my chest at the size of my pvp title (though I have a funny feeling you may fall into this category).  You do interest me so I'm going to ask the players I know in freeport who you are...I'd venture to say they might repond with a hearty "who?"</strong></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">well <strong>at the end of the day</strong>, it's not about me or you, it's about a broken pvp spell. The conversation changed to this when you told me I don't know anything about PVP and you know all</span></p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">I dont seem to recall ever running into you...by your names listed below...must have been perma invis or maybe using the old merge exploiting walls and buildings..lol</span></strong></p><p>2. you must have played 1 hour a day maximum, or pve'd on a pvp server to much.</p><p> <strong>Keep telling yourself that...</strong></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">i don't remember steamrolled players.</span></p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">I have seen my DG stripped mind you not very often but yes do I know how and what exactly was used no I didnt dwell on it like a 5 y/o and continued keeping my group alive.</span></strong></p><p>3. assuming you are correct, which i find hard to believe as everything else that you say is dribble, counting on dispelling broken pre-casted DG in a 6 v 6 when guild rep is on the line is not a suitable solution. Our group could use the "loop hole" too if we wanted, but why would we want to use a lame cheat?</p><p> <strong>Yeah true I dont know why someone like myself who has played templar for 7 years would have a clue what hes talking about....and again it is neither a cheat or an exploit  maybe you should try and figure out why everyone responding is laughing at you like you just started playing on a pvp server yesterday.</strong></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">because they play templars, or have templar friends, or are trolls..</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">EDIT: Inquisitors too -- Davito -- wow, so sad you need none intended pvp mechanics to pvp</span></p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="background-color: #221f1c; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span><strong>TBH your vids were so damm blurry was hard to make anyones name out...all ya had to do in the first place instead of posting blurry vids and a healthy dose of chest beating was say who was your main.</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span>4. Well, the names you saw us/me fighting were mostly some of the best pvp'rs in the game. If you actually pvp'd from the start till now, you would have heard of them. I posted the videos in response to you and other posting stating my group does not know how to dps, how to pvp, and that we are new. The videos date back from kos till almost now.</p><p><strong> I said your vids were blurry and that you speak as if you dont know how to pvp or the diffrences in mechanics for pve and pvp....tbh if the vids are ture you have made yourself out to be someone without any clue for pvp...pushing 3 buttons yawn.</strong></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">eh?</span></p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">Never been successful in pvp lol....tbh just because im pretty good in pvp (I've never said I was the best) I dont need to pound my chest and proclaim it to the server or game...geez its a game for petes sake.  The reason I as well as others called you out is because the is no exploit...calling the game mechanic otherwise is kinda hollow and if you were a long term pvp player you would have known this.  I'd venture to say that some if not all the players you group with would agree with me that its not an exploit...but whatever man you continue to talk down to those that have played as long if not longer as if your some "pvp guru" as was stated.  Now you may not like the way mechanics work in the gray area between pve to pvp and thats the way you should have made your argument but you didnt and contiued to harp on a non existent exploit regardless of what others advised...you really should stop assuming that if you cant 2 button anyone in pvp its an automatic exploit kinda makes you look completely sad.</span></strong></p><p>sorry, but i don't read walls of text, hurts my eyes.. i did read the first sentence... "Never been successful in pvp lol".. well i'm glad we finally agree on something.</p><p> <strong>Dude you are a legend in your own mind.</strong></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">that's all that counts</span></p></blockquote></blockquote>

Avirodar
08-26-2012, 04:50 AM
<p>A summary - at this point it is more than evident that a random EQ2-PVP-Pinkie is angry because:1) He is getting no support from the community.2) There was approx 15-19 seconds where outgoing heals competed with incoming damage.3) He has no idea how healers work.And the complaining ensues.My condolences go to the OP. Good ideas usually get a ton of support, and are rallied behind. This is no such thread. Instead the OP is singling out one ability from one archtype, when it is actually a global mechanics situation. Given the OP is calling for a nerf on a single archtype, when it is a global mechanics issue that affects numerous archtypes, this thread may be a breach of forum guidelines.I maintain it would be hilarious to see the OP try to play a healer. I doubt he would last 19 seconds. (see what I did there? lol)I will finish by saying, I love real PVP games. I started playing a new one (with a solid population!), yesterday. Huzzah for the <em>blue carebear</em> stare of real PVP flair! I still <3 all you EQ2-Pinkies though, because you are few, but fiesty.</p>

latesttoon
08-26-2012, 10:33 AM
<p>i didn't expect to get support from novice pvp clerics lol</p>

Laenai
08-26-2012, 12:03 PM
<p><cite>latesttoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i didn't expect to get support from novice pvp clerics lol</p></blockquote><p>PvP versus clerics better.</p>

Daalilama
08-26-2012, 05:46 PM
<p><cite>latesttoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i didn't expect to get support from novice pvp clerics lol</p></blockquote><p>I'm pretty sure you arent getting any support from any class pvp or otherwise...thats what happens when you play the boy who cried exploit without substantial information to back it up.</p><p>PS, of the 4 names u listed as yours both acolas/acoloss are non existent, vaco is a lvl 1 troub and soloca is a 90 defiler according to eq2u(I can assume you prob have more alts that are not listed and have opted out of allowing your whole account to be seen).  As someone with a highend healer your complete and utter lack of understanding of global mechanics is appalling...especially considering the same effect that clerics will get prior to being engaged in pvp with DG can be said of shaman wards, druid hots (insert any class here).  But hey keep believing you know more then the people who actually play the classes you get beaten by.</p>

latesttoon
08-26-2012, 05:54 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>latesttoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i didn't expect to get support from novice pvp clerics lol</p></blockquote><p>I'm pretty sure you arent getting any support from any class pvp or otherwise...thats what happens when you play the boy who cried exploit without substantial information to back it up.</p><p>PS, of the 4 names u listed as yours both acolas/acoloss are non existent, vaco is a lvl 1 troub and soloca is a 90 defiler according to eq2u(I can assume you prob have more alts that are not listed and have opted out of allowing your whole account to be seen).  As someone with a highend healer your complete and utter lack of understanding of global mechanics is appalling...<strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">especially considering the same effect that clerics will get prior to being engaged in pvp with DG can be said of shaman wards, druid hots (insert any class here)</span>.</strong>  But hey keep believing you know more then the people who actually play the classes you get beaten by.</p></blockquote><p>wow, you still don't even understand after all this?</p><p>Here was the PVP update for Qeynos Rises</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #d2c5a9; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; background-color: #2a2623;"><span style="color: #00ff00;">Divine Guidance now has a max trigger count of 10 when cast in PVP combat.</span></span></p><p>If you actually pvp'd, maybe you would know what this was all about... it seems it''s your lack of understanding that is the problem here <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> .. i apologise for not being more clear, i assumed for a short while that you actually did understand pvp mechanics.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"> </p><p>p.s. what has who i am got to do with the price of fish? you asked who i play, i told you</p>

Daalilama
08-26-2012, 06:29 PM
<p><cite>latesttoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>latesttoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i didn't expect to get support from novice pvp clerics lol</p></blockquote><p>I'm pretty sure you arent getting any support from any class pvp or otherwise...thats what happens when you play the boy who cried exploit without substantial information to back it up.</p><p>PS, of the 4 names u listed as yours both acolas/acoloss are non existent, vaco is a lvl 1 troub and soloca is a 90 defiler according to eq2u(I can assume you prob have more alts that are not listed and have opted out of allowing your whole account to be seen).  As someone with a highend healer your complete and utter lack of understanding of global mechanics is appalling...<strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">especially considering the same effect that clerics will get prior to being engaged in pvp with DG can be said of shaman wards, druid hots (insert any class here)</span>.</strong>  But hey keep believing you know more then the people who actually play the classes you get beaten by.</p></blockquote><p>wow, you still don't even understand after all this?</p><p>Here was the PVP update for Qeynos Rises</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="background-color: #2a2623; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: #d2c5a9; font-size: small;"><span style="color: #00ff00;">Divine Guidance now has a max trigger count of 10 when cast in PVP combat. </span></span></p><p><strong>Has no consequence what so ever since your complaining that the DG in question was popped prior to pvp combat and fell under pve mechanics.</strong></p><p>If you actually pvp'd, maybe you would know what this was all about... it seems it''s your lack of understanding that is the problem here <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> .. i apologise for not being more clear, i assumed for a short while that you actually did understand pvp mechanics.</p><p><strong>You seriously have no clue do you?</strong></p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"> p.s. what has who i am got to do with the price of fish? you asked who i play, i told you</p><p><strong>And I simply pointed out of the 4 you have one being a 90 defiler you should actually be familir with both pve and pvp mechanics and how they interact...but I guess you had that shaman power leveled cause your lack of understanding of even basic pvp/pve mechanics shows.  BTW just because you have a toon in the fishermen doesnt make automatically make you some pvp master.</strong></p></blockquote><p>Actually its you that seems to have a severe memory leak here.....as you explained in your initial post 1) you and your group ran into another group in pvp however prior to anyone in either group actually being put into combat (if I have to explain to you that mechanic than you really are totally clueless) the other group temped up (their cleric popping DG) since neither group was engaged yet in pvp combat both groups temps are still under the effect of pve ruleset.  2) When pvp combat is engaged any temps that were popped while not engaged in pvp and are still up fall under pve mechanics not pvp.  Any new temps/heals/etc popped after group is engaged will fall under the pvp merchanics.</p><p>What you are wanting which tbh would mean a serious rewrite to the game mechanics code would be any temps popped prior to pvp engagement and falling into pve mechaincs would immediately revert to pvp mechanics once pvp is engaged.  Aside from the major headaches the devs would have trying to come up with a correct formula for the converting the current temps that were up to pvp mechainics.</p><p>Do you even play the same game everyone else does?</p>

latesttoon
08-26-2012, 08:25 PM
<p>no, everything you say makes no sense or is irrelevant/incomparable to to the problem I hav described. it's also like you have some sort of inferiority complex by the type of attiude you have.. i have read about this and you fit this catogery perfectly.</p><p>stick to the problem, answer:</p><p>Everytime you do gears, you pop DG when you jump off the ledge right (obviously you do or would).. and you think that's fair when you come up against a team that doesn't have it, or doesn't know to use the loop hole, or doesn't choose too?</p><p>just an example</p>

Crismorn
08-26-2012, 10:14 PM
<p>I get what your saying, but the same thing can be said for pretty much every single temp buff in eq2, I even think it should not work how it currently does with pve value working once in pvp content but none of the ideas you have come up with are acceptable for pve purposes.</p><p>The only change that could be made without causing pve issues is if all abilities changed between pve and pvp values upon inc/out going dmg and not when the ability was first used.</p><p>Your only option right now is to engage the cleric before he can use it, which you already know, chances are the cleric is dumb and has already stakced reactives on themselves or chilling on someone else so just look for those, maybe you know that too idk just trying to give you guys some workarounds that wont take soe 6 months to figure out that its a problem.</p>

latesttoon
08-26-2012, 11:52 PM
<p>thanks for being civilized <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>i know there are other temps that will work in a similar pre-pvp-engage way, but they aren't really as game changing (unless i'm missing some)</p><p>hopefully the devs will continue to fix the <em>few </em>pvp problems that are left after the "Great PvP" update</p><p>i'm sure they could change "one spell" without changing the whole mechanics across the board. like:</p><p>"If attacked in PVP combat, DG will reset and have 10 triggers".. can't be impossible</p>

Daalilama
08-27-2012, 02:48 AM
<p><cite>latesttoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>thanks for being civilized <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p> <strong>Actually pretty much everyone was civilized until you basically called everyone who disagreed with you not up to your level of pvp skill.  A level btw which few know of.</strong></p><p>i know there are other temps that will work in a similar pre-pvp-engage way, but they aren't really as game changing (unless i'm missing some)</p><p>hopefully the devs will continue to fix the <em>few </em>pvp problems that are left after the "Great PvP" update</p><p><strong> First as your title suggests you called this an exploit and no matter who calmly explained it was a mechanic thats been in game for some time you would hear none of it.  After your exploit argument fell flat on its face you started calling it a cheat again same thing happened.  Now you have evolved to calling it a problem..well at least your evolving but still miss the mark by alot.</strong></p><p>i'm sure they could change "one spell" without changing the whole mechanics across the board. like:</p><p>"If attacked in PVP combat, DG will reset and have 10 triggers".. can't be impossible</p><p><strong>Why does this mechanic need changing again? Oh thats right you blindly ran straight into another group who was sharper on getting their temps up then yours was and beat your group.  So basically your looking to nerf a global mechanic for no other reason than you could not 3 button the members of the other group until DG came down.</strong></p><p><strong>This mechanic with specifically DG has been in game for quite some time and yet you are the only person looking for a specific global mechanics nerf...could the devs do it probably but since your whole argument has crashed and burned already I highly doubt they'd waste valuable dev time just to appease one dps player who blindly ran in and lost in pvp.</strong></p></blockquote>

Hennyo
08-27-2012, 04:20 AM
<p>Well, not even sure why I am posting in this thread, but whatever, I wanted to explain something. One of the main reasons why existing temporary buffs cast outside of PvP combat continue to use PvE durations after PvP combat has started has to do with open world pvp. In open world pvp, if one group is engaged while fighting pve content, if all their existing buffs instantly followed pvp rules, it would give way too large of an advantage to the attacking players verse the attacked players. While this may make more sense for open world pvp, and not soo much for battle grounds, they both use the same pvp combat rules, and would simply be too much work for developers to make a special pvp rule set for only bg's.</p>

latesttoon
08-27-2012, 09:37 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>latesttoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>thanks for being civilized <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p> <strong>Actually pretty much everyone was civilized until you basically called everyone who disagreed with you not up to your level of pvp skill.  A level btw which few know of.</strong></p><p>i know there are other temps that will work in a similar pre-pvp-engage way, but they aren't really as game changing (unless i'm missing some)</p><p>hopefully the devs will continue to fix the <em>few </em>pvp problems that are left after the "Great PvP" update</p><p><strong> First as your title suggests you called this an exploit and no matter who calmly explained it was a mechanic thats been in game for some time you would hear none of it.  After your exploit argument fell flat on its face you started calling it a cheat again same thing happened.  Now you have evolved to calling it a problem..well at least your evolving but still miss the mark by alot.</strong></p><p>i'm sure they could change "one spell" without changing the whole mechanics across the board. like:</p><p>"If attacked in PVP combat, DG will reset and have 10 triggers".. can't be impossible</p><p><strong>Why does this mechanic need changing again? Oh thats right you blindly ran straight into another group who was sharper on getting their temps up then yours was and beat your group.  So basically your looking to nerf a global mechanic for no other reason than you could not 3 button the members of the other group until DG came down.</strong></p><p><strong>This mechanic with specifically DG has been in game for quite some time and yet you are the only person looking for a specific global mechanics nerf...could the devs do it probably but since your whole argument has crashed and burned already I highly doubt they'd waste valuable dev time just to appease one dps player who blindly ran in and lost in pvp.</strong></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>i'm sorry but everything you say is completely wrong <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> </p><p>to top it off, everything you say is irrelevant to the problem at hand, you seem to be getting madder and madder, you might blow up soon.. this is really interesting that you have this sort of problem, i think i will use you as an example for my psychology thesis..</p><p>you still never answered the BG question</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong> </strong><strong>First as your title suggests you called this an exploit and no matter who calmly explained it was a mechanic thats been in game for some time you would hear none of it.  After your exploit argument fell flat on its face you started calling it a cheat again same thing happened.  Now you have evolved to calling it a problem..well at least your evolving but still miss the mark by alot.</strong></span></p><p>whether you call it an exploit or a problem doesn't matter, you are arguing over this like as if you are a 5 year old child, and not discussing the problem at hand? ... this is really interesting (your mental difficulties), but just so you don't go crazy i will help you with some clarification, before ignoring all your strange social interactive problems:</p><p>in my first post (and line) i stated<span style="color: #00ff00;"> "<span style="background-color: #221f1c; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">example of exploit (although maybe a strong word)"</span></span></p><p>The reason i wrote exploit was to get peoples attention, which has worked.. at the begining of the conversation before other clerics jumped on the bandwagon i stated "<span style="background-color: #221f1c; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="color: #00ff00;">ok.. it's not really an exploit.. but it is an important problem that needs to be fixed. "</span></span></p><p>in your first post you stated in reply to the issue i brought to you</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: #2a2623;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">DG used to be pretty powerful in pvp now after 2 successful nerfs its meh</span></span></p><p>as your understanding of the game is pretty terrible, we can see here that if it was nerfed a thousand times, it doesn't really matter, because the core problem here is it makes no difference to the PVP nerf, as it is working as it should for PVE.. can you see now how little you understand the concepts of pvp game mechanics and most probably reality itself? Even by the end you still didn't understand the problem.</p><p>here, let me tell you again -- Divine Guidance has been reduced to 10 trigger chances in PVP, when it is used not in pvp combat it lasts the full duration + has infinite triggers. This is an unfair advantage in PVP, if you think it isn't then you are delusional.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">Why does this mechanic need changing again? Oh thats right you blindly ran straight into another group who was sharper on getting their temps up then yours was and beat your group.  So basically your looking to nerf a global mechanic for no other reason than you could not 3 button the members of the other group until DG came down.</span></strong></p><p>never happened i'm afraid.. the reason is that i want fair pvp --- i'm pretty sure that we could destroy any group you could make (with you healing) with my group, and you can use DG before entering combat and we won't. I'm more worried about in 2 months time when we actually fight people that are good, in fair fights.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>This mechanic with specifically DG has been in game for quite some time and yet you are the only person looking for a specific global mechanics nerf...could the devs do it probably but since your whole argument has crashed and burned already I highly doubt they'd waste valuable dev time just to appease one dps player who blindly ran in and lost in pvp.</strong></span></p><p>you simply have no idea do you</p><p>from now on, i'm going to call you special.</p>

latesttoon
08-27-2012, 09:39 AM
<p><cite>Hennyo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, not even sure why I am posting in this thread, but whatever, I wanted to explain something. One of the main reasons why existing temporary buffs cast outside of PvP combat continue to use PvE durations after PvP combat has started has to do with open world pvp. In open world pvp, if one group is engaged while fighting pve content, if all their existing buffs instantly followed pvp rules, it would give way too large of an advantage to the attacking players verse the attacked players. While this may make more sense for open world pvp, and not soo much for battle grounds, they both use the same pvp combat rules, and would simply be too much work for developers to make a special pvp rule set for only bg's.</p></blockquote><p>do you know how much contested content there is now at 92?</p>

Sonne
08-27-2012, 11:29 AM
<div>I'm inclined to agree with latesttoon. This needs to be fixed asap.</div>

Darman81
08-27-2012, 12:06 PM
<p> Working as intended... Any good healer knows to preward, use hots, use reactives before combat starts. So definately not an exploit just a game mechanic that has allways been there. Try to adjust and enjoy the game.</p>

Notsovilepriest
08-27-2012, 12:20 PM
Here is the thing. Basically if left as is, cleric is a must in a pvp group because if one has one group has one and the other doesnt, the cleric group gets 30+ seconds to burn the other group while the other groups heals have to click more than 1 prebuff. If the buff didnt last so long with all the AAs it wouldnt be as bad as it is now.

MalkorGodchyld
08-27-2012, 12:24 PM
<p>Not an exploit, but expect a "fix" now that attention has been focused on it. </p><p> I personally think the nerf to DG should have gone along the lines of reducing the heal amount instead of limiting the triggers, but maybe thats just me.  </p><p>DPS is so crazy in a good stacked group that abilities like DG make you have to strategize, which is a good thing imo.  Plus it provides the illusion of being competitive for those that aren't.    The group will still die if they suck...but in 25 seconds instead of 5 so hey...big deal. </p><p>Anyway...for what was <em>intended</em> with the nerf, i would have to agree with Acolass.  Even the suggestion on how fits.   Soulward was nerfed way back when and it's usefulness was the same in PVE as DG.   Well guess what...it was nerfed anyway.  </p><p>Mariusx/Godchyld </p>

Daalilama
08-27-2012, 01:17 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Working as intended... Any good healer knows to preward, use hots, use reactives before combat starts. So definately not an exploit just a game mechanic that has allways been there. Try to adjust and enjoy the game.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly....the reality is quite simple this is a fix in search of a problem.  On a side not this is how gear seperation got started...by someone who got steamrolled in pvp by a smarter group...not gear imbalance..not broken mechanics...by the smarter group...same thing is happening here....yet another dps class looking to nerf healers even more in pvp because they either cant fanthom how to play smartly smartly with the current mechanics and seem to get agitated when they cant 3 button anyone in pvp (tbh no one should be able to 2 or 3 button anyone in pvp but thats not the case anymore regardless of the pvp update but thats another argument for another time.</p><p>Players need to stop complaining and looking for a nerf with ill conceived and poorly thought out ideas when they lose in pvp otherwise this type of argument will only exacerbate the feeling amongst healers to stop logging in to play them in pvp.</p>

latesttoon
08-27-2012, 02:04 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Working as intended... Any good healer knows to preward, use hots, use reactives before combat starts. So definately not an exploit just a game mechanic that has allways been there. Try to adjust and enjoy the game.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly....the reality is quite simple this is a fix in search of a problem.  On a side not this is how gear seperation got started...by someone who got steamrolled in pvp by a smarter group...not gear imbalance..not broken mechanics...by the smarter group...same thing is happening here....yet another dps class looking to nerf healers even more in pvp because they either cant fanthom how to play smartly smartly with the current mechanics and seem to get agitated when they cant 3 button anyone in pvp (tbh no one should be able to 2 or 3 button anyone in pvp but thats not the case anymore regardless of the pvp update but thats another argument for another time.</p><p>Players need to stop complaining and looking for a nerf with ill conceived and poorly thought out ideas when they lose in pvp otherwise this type of argument will only exacerbate the feeling amongst healers to stop logging in to play them in pvp.</p></blockquote><p>@special -- how is it a smarter group when we can do the exact same thing when we have a templar? lol .. of course people are going to do it, it's not wrong.. but this is not game balance, or anything to do with skill or being smart. If an assassin could one shot someone (in the past) with 1 click of decap, he's not cheating, but it's certainly not really fair, and nothing to do with being smarter.. and i know, I remember when i was one shotted by Adelphi in SS (that's sinking sands mate) over 5-6 years ago <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>+</p><p>i've never been able to 3 button someone in this game, i've had to use practically every button my class has... besides it seems you just want 1 button - DG</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; background-color: #f3f5ff;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">Players need to stop complaining and looking for a nerf with ill conceived and poorly thought out ideas when they lose in pvp otherwise this type of argument will only exacerbate the feeling amongst healers to stop logging in to play them in pvp.</span></span></p><p>we never lost a fight because of this situation, so i don't know why you keep saying that.. is that all the technical reasoning behind not fixing this clearly broken pvp mechanic?</p><p>Your arguements to keep it in the game (PVP) are completely Null. At least the Oasis cleric used actual game mechanics to argue back, albiet without experiencing actual open world pvp on nagafen.</p><p>i've never heard of someone fight for the right of keeping an obviously BAD OP PVP problem, except for terrible players.</p>

Novusod
08-28-2012, 12:08 AM
<p>L2P this is not an exploit. PvP rules were never meant to work when not in PvP combat. Remember that tactics to counter every strategy. Either hit them into PvP combat before the put up DG or if they pop it back away from them and make them waste it. Very easy to choose not to engage with a group and avoid open world pvp.</p>

Crismorn
08-28-2012, 03:54 AM
<p><cite>MalkorGodchyld wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not an exploit, but expect a "fix" now that attention has been focused on it. </p><p> I personally think the nerf to DG should have gone along the lines of reducing the heal amount instead of limiting the triggers, but maybe thats just me.  </p><p>DPS is so crazy in a good stacked group that abilities like DG make you have to strategize, which is a good thing imo.  Plus it provides the illusion of being competitive for those that aren't.    The group will still die if they suck...but in 25 seconds instead of 5 so hey...big deal. </p><p>Anyway...for what was <em>intended</em> with the nerf, i would have to agree with Acolass.  Even the suggestion on how fits.   <strong>Soulward was nerfed way back when and it's usefulness was the same in PVE as DG.   Well guess what...it was nerfed anyway.</strong>  </p><p>Mariusx/Godchyld </p></blockquote><p>Soul Ward was being used pre-pull in pve to get a big ward up while ignoring a chance of dying due to the instant loss of most of the Defilers HPs, the fix to make it only usable in combat was a good change because its benefits were weighed against its chance to kill you which using pre-pull avoided entirely.  DG is nothing at all like this, its % groupwide hp increase is useful on inc for pve and has no drawback or chance to fail or kill the cleric, so changing it for a pvp reason is not ok for pve.</p><p>Either fix all temp buffs from pve to pvp or engage the cleric before they can get DG up under pve conditions like every single other temp buff in eq2.</p><p>Or deal with it.</p>

latesttoon
08-28-2012, 07:48 AM
<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>L2P this is not an exploit. PvP rules were never meant to work when not in PvP combat. Remember that tactics to counter every strategy. Either hit them into PvP combat before the put up DG or if they pop it back away from them and make them waste it. Very easy to choose not to engage with a group and avoid open world pvp.</p></blockquote><p>of course there is a way to counter every problem.. but if that's what you think, then there would be no need to ever patch this game for any pvp fixes ever?</p><p>said this before... i'm pretty sure it will not be difficult to add </p><p>"If engaged in pvp combat, DG will reset and become 10 triggers"... this does not need a re-write of eq2 game mechanics, just an added line of code to the spell</p><p>and, you can't really say its not fair if fighting PVE mobs, as there is practically no contested content anyway.</p><p>@Davionxxx maybe you are right about soul ward, although i never heard anything about it being nerfed for PVE or PVP reasons..  it must have been a co-incidence, as at the time of the nerf there must have been about 1000 petitions going off for Defilers (one particular called screwed)...</p><p>at the time you only received infamy if the opponents HP was more than 50% HP. A Defiler when solo, to avoid losing fame, would soul ward himself before being engaged or before engaging, and have no fear of death.. the work around was Charm him and group heal him up to 50% health.. this didn't always work <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>This was 8th may 2007... <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mnH1hLnZJs&feature=youtu.be">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mnH...eature=youtu.be</a></p><p>The patch for soul ward on test was July.</p>

SOE-MOD-02
08-30-2012, 03:01 PM
<p>Closing this down now as there are quite a few forum violations within it.  Please read through the SOE Forum Guidelines and abide by them when posting!</p>