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Dorsan
03-18-2012, 09:11 AM
<p>Hello,</p><p>  Since I was here as the PvP aspect of the Everquest 2 gameplay was slowly ruined step by step and was also actively posting why the changes you guys are making are bad and how they will ruin our game, and since every single effect of those changes I wrote about came true as time progressed, I've decided to recap the whole story. The development team changed, the game changed, but if there is anyone who still cares in SoE, this thread is for them.</p><p>  The first mistake was the change to the fame system. We had a fame system that worked well, but then due to the vocal minority on the forums it was changed into a no risk system. The whole system became meaningless as it was rewarding staying online at all times and did not reward actual PvP. And even if you went offline you were able to maintain the highest possible title by going out to PvP for some 10 minutes since everyone's titles were inflated. Then to correct this and maybe get some of the playerbase back, a new mistake was made. Instead of bringing back the system that worked, someone invented a brand new system. While this system is surely better than the one with the fame decay, it is impossible to maintain a title under it, unless it is someone with tracking who will only engage weak targets and run away from everyone that could kill them.</p><p>  The second mistake was the complete separation of PvP and PvE. The reasoning behind it was that people playing 1 game style should excell in that game style and that game style only. However this kind of reasoning is wrong. It diminishes the achievement of attaining PvE gear and PvP gear too. When you get a new piece and are unable to use it outside its scope, the excitement of attaining the gear diminishes and people simply stop going out to PvP and just raid or on the other side some people only go out to PvP and don't do anything PvE related. This splits the community of the server and creates the illusion that the server is empty, since you can't get PvE groups when you want them, and you don't see any active PvP either. Nagafen can not support playerbase separations, there aren't enough of us left. Another issue with PvP specific gear is, that you need to update it constantly. Because once people are geared out, they have no incentive to PvP anymore. And SoE clearly does not have a developer who's job is to maintain Nagafen happy nor do you guys seem to have any plans to have a developer assigned to such task. So clearly you don't have the manpower to maintain separated gear sets, and we don't have the playerbase to support a server with playerbase that is split like that.</p><p>  The third mistake was the idea that warfields will keep the PvP aspect of the game alive. They can't. The whole idea of the warfileds as they are now is wrong and the implementation is wrong too. It is very easy to abuse this system by getting the flag and then using a flying mount to get up into safety until you gain all the faction/tokens you need. And even people who stay on the ground are only able to participate in a zergfest which is the only thing that's left as PvP. I agree we do need something to make people go out to contested zone but warfields are not it.</p><p>  The fourth and largest mistake are the constant lies and broken promises of the development team towards the players. If we don't get an update and are promissed an update at the next GU then we do want that update when that GU comes out. A "sorry we have to delay it" just won't do. If you don't have the will/man power to do it, allow a few of us players to design the new PvP gear. Give us some sort of gear creator that we can use on the Test server and once we are happy with the gear just put it on live. That will cost you 0 development time, and people who actually know the game mechanics would be able to make the gear as opposed to people who have no idea but are doing it anyway (or not even doing it at all) - like it is now.</p><p>  The fifth mistake was allowing mercenaries into PvP. This should have been a huge no-no to anyone who would think about the impact they would have on PvP, but somehow they still got pushed onto live. They really need to despawn if a player is engaged in PvP combat.</p><p>  The sixth mistake was changing the targeting system. This was done a while ago and it completely broke the PvP targeting system. Allied mercenaries, NPCs, non-attackable targets all became "next hostile PvP" targets. Why?</p><p>  On top of all this new bugs are being introduced into the game at astonishing rate, but they never get fixed. Just to name 1 example that annoys me to no end: summoners are put into combat as soon as anyone in their raid (or themselves) take any damage. Bugs like this are annoying, but ignored by the dev team even after they are repeatedly reported as bugs. Why?</p><p>  If you want to stop the death of the last PvP server left, you need to act quickly. Here is a how-to:</p><p>1) Change fame system back to the original or at least fix the fame gain/loss rates to be reasonable (5% of current total fame with 6 set as minimum instead of huge step between unranked/hunter)</p><p>2) Disable flying/leaping mounts in warfield zones while warfields are active.</p><p>3) Add a check to warfield rewarding system to force players to PvP. If they aren't actively attacking the towers or engaged in PvP for a set amount of time, they shouldn't be rewarded.</p><p>4) Find a solution that would allow PvP gear to be useful in PvE and PvE gear to be useful in PvP. They can still remain the best option to their respective purposes but they should work in the entire enviroment. For an idea find the proposal Peak and I had when you guys made the full separation of the gear sets. We can also work out on a different solutions.</p><p>5) Add more overland PvP content. A pretty decent idea would be to have PvP buff clickies added to loot table of contested monsters. (For example some nice procs or +5% PvP only potency etc) Make those clickies stackable and no-trade so that people are forced to farm the overland mobs for them. If you have people out farming, you will have PvP too.</p><p>6) Disable mercenaries in PvP</p><p>7) Fix PvP targeting system.</p><p><img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Fix Exile (I know the devs think of exile as a step in a quest, but having a ffa faction is important for us on PvP servers)</p><p>  This is all that came to my mind at the moment...</p><p>Thanks for reading,</p><p>Dorsan, necromancer of Nagafen.</p><p>*edited to add exiles xD</p>

Skarl
03-18-2012, 10:28 AM
I agree with all these points. I would play on a pvp server if there was worthwhile open world pvp. I would go a step further and get rid of battlegrounds on pvp servers. But that is just my opinion. I would say most will dissagree with that though.

Delethen
03-18-2012, 10:34 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hello,</p><p>  Since I was here as the PvP aspect of the Everquest 2 gameplay was slowly ruined step by step and was also actively posting why the changes you guys are making are bad and how they will ruin our game, and since every single effect of those changes I wrote about came true as time progressed, I've decided to recap the whole story. The development team changed, the game changed,<strong> but if there is anyone who still cares in SoE, this thread is for them.</strong></p></blockquote><p>Clearly there isn't.</p>

SOE-MOD-04
03-18-2012, 11:02 AM
This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500111&post_id=5733531" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50011...post_id=5733531</a> Removed for trolling

Dorsan
03-18-2012, 05:16 PM
Edited OP to add "fix exiles". Totally forgot about that part of the game ruined. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Darkor
03-18-2012, 05:29 PM
<p>Pretty much sums the whole problem with pvp up.</p><p>My priority is this:</p><p>Remove the gear separation. Let me use my PvE gear in pvp, remove the crap pvp gear. You cant handle this anyway.</p><p>Fix the mess with the flying mounts. They give permanent immunity, it shouldnt be like this. I dont know how you can fix this but it was you who decided to bring something like these ingame so its you who has to find a fix for it.</p>

Pink_Poodle
03-19-2012, 12:20 AM
<p>I think disabling the leap/glide/fly mounts as a whole wouldn't be good, but maybe just during WFs only [like you said] or make them so they "tire out" during non-WF times/zones after a while of leaping/gliding/flying.</p><p>And mercs and PVP is a tough situation, but it seems a lot of players want them gone. Maybe they could back off in fear of potentially killing a customer? Or some other weird lore thing like that.</p>

Sfeerikal
03-19-2012, 03:15 AM
!!-- Please implement all ideas immediately --!! This would be an excellent way to refresh all things pvp in eq2.

ChaoticVisions
03-19-2012, 12:01 PM
<p>Nah the problem with PvP isn't this.</p><p>The problem with PvP is that no one on the development side gives a sh*t.</p>

Kimber
03-19-2012, 07:56 PM
<p>Basicly roll things back to TSO ( for PvP/PvE armor and jewlery set ups ) with ROK fame system and all will be right with the Naggy again</p>

Lilflier
03-20-2012, 02:06 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Basicly roll things back to TSO ( for PvP/PvE armor and jewlery set ups ) with ROK fame system and all will be right with the Naggy again</p></blockquote><p>put it all the way back to kindom of sky would be nice.</p>

Xzerius
03-20-2012, 09:51 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /> Fix Exile (I know the devs think of exile as a step in a quest, but having a ffa faction is important for us on PvP servers)</p></blockquote><p>If Exileds want FFA, give them FFA. They should not be permitted to group with each other or anyone.  Otherwise, yes, we should hear a *ding when we kill them.</p>

Twinbladed
03-21-2012, 09:50 AM
<p>Flying and leaper get on people nerves they didn't kill off pvp, lack of soe with the factor of wf and bg's + 1 shotting did more to pvp than mounts</p>

Adjorr
03-21-2012, 05:07 PM
leaping mount + merc that cures everything = never having to ever engage in battle healer merc + any class = total invulnerabilty to dots debuffs and control effects. Warfields reward doing nothing. you dont have to participate you jsut have to show up and drown in a river and u will still get tokens and faction regardless of who wins or loses the warfield pvp in eq2 is over. wish there was an mmo otu there that offered true open world pvp liek we used to have back in KOS days, but there isnt.

Pink_Poodle
03-21-2012, 09:51 PM
<p>I canceled for now. I just want answers on when the PVP thing will be updated, you know? I enjoy this game but I don't like PVP's current state. I still am compiling my own list of things obtained from other people to try to show the devs. I have a speck of hope that PVP will be changed for better. :/</p>

Dorsan
03-22-2012, 10:40 PM
I changed my mind. At this point they should just leave everything as it is for 6 more months and then once Nagafen is a light server, they can make a poll if we want to get merged into a PvE server and get it over with. At least I have fun raiding.

Davngr1
03-23-2012, 09:49 AM
<p>they should just open up pvp and pve gear the way it was before with a hard cap on flurry and multi attack.   with PvE critical mitigation gone people wearing too much PvE gear will die faster than they kill and thus PvP gear will still be better with a few choice PvE pieces.    </p>

Dorsan
03-23-2012, 11:52 AM
Nah that would never work. You can get ~160 pvp crit mit max, and people can get to 300 cb right now, probably 400-500 in next xpac. Which means if they wear full PvE gear, we would be back at oneshots. I did all the calculations to make the PvE gear viable in PvP a year or so ago and those numbers would still work. SoE has to go back to PvE gear for both PvP and PvE simply because they obviously don't have the manpower to update PvP gear as time progresses. And PvP gear is also making the game on PvP servers extremely boring. If they manage to make PvE gear completely useless in PvP then people won't have anything to do. You can get full set of PvP gear pretty fast and then for a year there is no update so people have 0 incentive to do anything. They won't PvE since the gear is useless and they won't PvP because it becomes boring when you're fighting the same 10 PvP die hards over and over again. But it is also very obvious that no one at SoE even cares about Nagafen anymore so that is why I think the only thing that can make the game fun for us is to flag it as another PvE server and then merge it with some server that has healthy population. As it is right now, you can't PvP or PvE on Nagafen.