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Vivender
03-14-2012, 05:41 AM
<p>Lately there has been funny lag during WF's. Frankly, I find the timing of the lag to be conspicuously advantageous to certain players (like, when they need to run away or avoid dying). But that's not what I'm out to discuss.</p><p>I want to make a couple things clear.</p><p>1) Lag hacks exist.</p><p>"Lag Switches" are PROGRAMS (not physical switches, those were for the Xbox, but that is where the program gets its name) that were created to slow down network traffic. They have a variety of realistic uses. I have petitioned with the name of a very popular lag switching program to hopefully bring it to the attention of the Devs. I will refrain from listing it here, so as to avoid encouraging more script kiddies to use it.</p><p>2) Lag switches require a "local network"</p><p>Wait, how can you use them in-game then?</p><p>Simple.</p><p>Peer to Peer network architecture creates a "local network" of sorts between many different computers. Peer to Peer network architecture is the predominant architecture for multiplayer gaming. Examples of P2P architecture include the Gnutella network (Limewire) and Hamachi (which is, ironically for this topic, used to simulate LAN's to allow MULTIPLAYER PC GAMING).</p><p>So. . . where does this leave us?</p><p>Is the lag due to players in zone w/ mercs?</p><p>Unlikely, as we can have peak players in zone w/o having zone lag occur. Plus, this would mean that fairly dead WF's (like Enchanted Lands) would HARDLY EVER if not NEVER have this problem. Yet, I have witnessed this lag in Enchanted Lands. Typically when someone is about to die, or a certain guild is waiting for reinforcements. Just a tad bit suspicious, but, again, I'm not starting a witch hunt with this thread.</p><p>To reiterate my point:</p><p>Lag hacks exist, and it is EXTREMELY LIKELY that this is what is causing the problems during WF. Not too many players. Not too many mercs. But some idiot that knows how to use a Lag Switching program. Which, frankly, is not that hard.</p><p>On a personal note, I've noticed that the usual suspects are very intent on blaming mercs for this. Well, look, start a post about it (which I am about to do). Don't Lag Switch and blame mercs, then hope the devs disable them. If you don't understand why this is wrong, then go look up "Ethics" in the dictionary.</p><p>Thank you, and good day.</p>

Twinbladed
03-14-2012, 07:02 AM
<p>I said the same thing got a target on my head that I was raging an blah blah blah, people only listen to what they think, they none of the people who replied had a logical answer to it, was a rather funny situation but the outcome to the answer never got resolved, it has been around awhile but if you notice only certain people are around when it happens, I got smashed for saying that one too! The reality of it, I have talk to multple people and it's always the same people they are fighting or around that they have a problem with it. Your not going to get anything logical for a responce bias to it, and turn it around as if it your computer no matter how good it is, or your internet connection, or just a simple game bug.</p>

Vegeeta
03-14-2012, 07:20 PM
<p>Good to know.</p><p>I've heard on both sides that people have recently been suspended, but sure that's just rumor. I know a GM has been there though and could not verify any such usage (in that specific event).</p><p>Hmm, I do agree that it could be something used to "get away", but don't really see that being an advantage for the accused since they normally clean up when they're there. I have myself left the combat area when there's lag and came back to re-engage, only to end up in the same lag of course. It's very frustrating for both sides, IMO more so for Q side because we're there to PVP, not to beat on the tower.</p><p>Anway...hope something gets resolved soon.</p>

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03-16-2012, 06:24 AM
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Vivender
03-17-2012, 05:28 AM
<p>Yes, Client-to-Server is the predominant architecture for MMORPG's. . . particularly when they were all PvE.</p><p>It is likely that some sort of Peer-to-Peer model is used on the client side to accomodate all of the PvP interactions. As I stated, these connections are most likely present within a single zone. Therefore, common lag switching programs could work and lag everyone in an entire zone, and particularly players they are physically near in-game, but not the entire server (the entire game world).</p><p>Can a dev possibly settle this, or would they be revealing too much that's behind the curtain? A definitive "Yes, that could be the problem" or "No, no way would that work." would be nice and put a lot of fears to rest.</p>

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03-17-2012, 12:43 PM
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03-17-2012, 05:26 PM
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03-18-2012, 04:58 PM
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Vivender
03-23-2012, 04:02 PM
<p>Update:</p><p>According to some in-game research in a private zone, some players believe that this is the result of a VERY POPULAR exploit being done en-masse. Again, I will not mention what the exploit is (as if everyone doesn't already know).</p><p>This exploit will cause your character to "warp" around the zone. Apparently, if enough people do it, it will lag out the already confused server.</p><p>And let me make something clear, because (due to recent conversations with some people) people don't seem to understand this: USING AN EXPLOIT WILL GET YOU BANNED. It is against the EULA, which CLEARLY states that you will be banned for using an exploit. No,  it's not okay. It ruins gameplay, cheats the system, and (please God, let them get caught doing it) WILL GET YOU BANNED.</p><p>Yeargh.</p>

Dorsan
03-23-2012, 10:17 PM
Here is some in game research you can do. Place a group of training dummies... In fact place 2-3 groups to make it more like wfs. Then have 2 summoners in 2 separate groups cast Elemental Toxicity. You'll lag the whole zone. And that is not a hack, it is just how procs work. Now imagine you also have 30 mercs up and people with all sorts of different procs. Do the math.

Vivender
03-30-2012, 02:46 PM
<p>Uhm. . . have you seen the lag we're talking about?</p><p>Because I notice you're in Onyx, which I only hear about in t9 PvP, and have frankly never seen you guys in Antonica or Enchanted Lands, where this post is relevant.</p><p>This isn't normal server lag, this is lag resulting, most likely, from a common exploit being waaaaaaaay overused, or a genuine hack (i.e. -- a Lag Switch program).</p><p>I've "done the math" and the logical conclusion here is that someone is causing the server lag, possibly unintentionally (exploit use) or very intentionally (lag switching).</p><p>Plus, if that were the problem, then you would see this lag in KP, where there are x2's from three factions at times. And you would almost never see this lag in EL, where there are rarely more than 20 people in zone TOTAL.</p><p>This isn't normal server lag -- this is the whole system being disrupted, causing up to 30 second lag, all the while you're still pinging just fine.</p>

SOE-MOD-04
03-30-2012, 07:16 PM
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Vivender
03-30-2012, 09:23 PM
<p>Funny, Devils.</p><p>It could be mercs, which is unlikely, seeing as that the lag started MONTHS after mercs were introduced.</p><p>Or it could be people fond of using exploits.</p><p>Or it could be people that found a lag switch compatible with EQ2.</p><p>Yes, it COULD be a technical problem. It's just that if it were a technical problem, it would be more predictable than "Look who showed up! Countdown to lag fest. . . ."</p><p>Have you noticed yet that only yourself and your guildies seem to be the ones crying "Mercs"? Think about it. None of us like mercs in PvP, go post that in "20 words or less", lend some credence to the fact that hardly anyone wants mercs to participate in PvP.</p><p>But, to hopefully help out Nagafen, I'll spit out the popular exploit that is being used that may be causing the lag.</p><p>SCREEN DRAGGING</p><p>Maybe you need to have a serious talk with your guild about how using a known exploit, such as screen dragging, can get you banned.</p><p>Or maybe you guys should keep it up, and just get banned. Either way, it's a win for Nagafen.</p>

Infernalbeauty
03-31-2012, 11:27 AM
<p>Screen dragging ? I wouldn't begin to know how to screen drag,as I do not play pvp to take the easy way out, I play to challenge myself,and feel a rush doing it. If I win thats great,and if I lose well there will be more wins. If I lose I look and see what I did wrong,and correct it.  Cheaters are just cheating themselves hence taking the fun out of pvp.</p><p>So I don't know what you are talking about claiming my guild screen drags because that is absolutely false. I am sure the lag makes it look like someone is warping all over the zone.</p><p>I promise you, me and my guild are never going to get banned, because we havent done anything wrong. Bet on that. I am also not getting defensive here I am telling you we will be around till eq2 is over. Also we will continue to make your lifes miserable on the battlefield as you are our enemy,and you deserve no mercy.</p><p>Whether its me,and my soldiers on 46's or 39's we will continue to bring you misery lol We don't like freeports,we don't like how you guys play,your tactics,your zerging,your leapers,your mercs.</p><p>See you on the battlefield !!!! Blood Eagle !!!</p>

Rotate
04-01-2012, 06:02 PM
<p>Lag on our sever has been present in the past few months. You can notice it in KP wf's to. While raiding. Sullon a mob that never lagged before past months been lagging sever side. One encounter in drunder will like complete freeze everything in the zone if like two conjs would cast elemental tox.  I have noticed sever preformance on naggy has droped in past months during raids and pvp! Well i havnt really pvped much.. but u can tell the lag is there if ya go out!</p>

capitan
04-02-2012, 06:37 AM
<p>@ Infernalbeauty</p><p>Very interesting that you've found your way into another forum topic regarding keywords Lag & Hacks (All past messages are on these topics. hmm)... Any psychologist can learn your conditioned state, as I said previously, you're too predictable; I would even say boring to a degree.  Now all of a sudden we (being you) have names...Culprits if you will. What happen to crying mercs & Sony this & mercs that, (rhetorical). But funny, because you'll still answer...haha...Anyhow, this area has already been explored in Lag Antonica forum - <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=515788">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=515788</a> -</p><p>@ Rota - I'm aware of what you speak of, however, this is not the same, as this "lag" is quite different & more extreme, & has precision w/ it's timing. But again, I'm aware of what you're saying, but Antonica warfield's lag is totally different. Infact, it's eerie similar to the enchanted lands warfield lag; That of course, if their happens to be a certain guild w/ a certain member present. (Majority)</p><p>@ All viewers</p><p>Again this is comical. Either Sony allows it, or is having difficulty discovering the details of it to terminate; The exploiters/hackers, or lag continues; Individuals, some possibly out of guilt, frustration, &/or conviction, continue to invent new philosophies & person(s) who may be behind these acts.</p><p>Psychology can easily tell you more detail, & even accurately narrow & clarify the individual(s) just based on some things read in the forums, game chat, likewise certain behavioral patterns that are consistent w/ these "lags" or hacks, & someone's trait, or exposure thereof. LoL...Comical. Too easy. Too predictable. Boring. Yet, they love to be entertained at causing dysfunction to others.</p><p>I wonder when this person(s), (Now of course we know of whom we're speaking of don't we?) will respond & attack character, & proclaim their fame & riches in real life, using substitute metaphors, or even personifications, for fantasy life. Smile...(Sarcasim is a dangerous drug!)</p><p>As frolic as this is & can be, the real concern & red flag goes up, when a person can create a genuine hate toward another, from a fantasy that doesn't nor has never existed! To hate a fantasy name (or faction as we call them here) or To hate a real life person from a made up (fantasy) genre, that is more serious than a hack. Perhaps, someone should take a break from the game, & remind themselves of what is real & what is fake, & what is important & what is not!</p>

Yimway
04-02-2012, 04:11 PM
<p>I'm not going to get into alot of detail about this as the potential for abuse is WAY too high.</p><p>There are function calls you can trigger in the client that generate significant server resources as well as significant amounts of data to be sent between the server and nearby clients.</p><p>In this way, its quite easy for someone with malicious intent to create a 'lag bomb' or whatever you want to call it.</p><p>I'm aware of malicious ways to lag an area, a zone, or an entire server.  It is unreasonable to think I'm the only person who has this knowledge and its reasonable to believe someone in pvp would use it with malicious intent.</p>

Infernalbeauty
04-03-2012, 10:06 AM
<p>Capitan at least spelled Sarcasm right <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p>

Infernalbeauty
04-03-2012, 10:15 AM
<p>Tonight i was dueling this necro named Colorr on my 90 ranger {He and everyone says he is the best lol so he said but wrong},and I owned him, so instead of congratulating me or saying "good fight" right away he cries ..........drum roll !!!! bang bang bang ........ "Haxx"!!!!! He claims I used a hack to lag him out so I can just fire away,and rock him lol Yes and I seen a UFO flying around Mara !!</p><p>When you fight a ranger with over 60 meters using an underfoot bow,extension,and the charm from Miragul you are not getting a lifeburn of....i have the range over your panzie CAS</p><p>So as far as he was concerned....he lost the duel because of haxx lol Nooo, you just are not the best you thought you were lol He was crying for a solid half hour lol</p><p>Yes Capitan big foot exists...the loch ness monster is still swimming around scotland,the gnomes are building UFOS !!! Conspiracys a go go !!!</p>

Dorsan
04-03-2012, 06:23 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Tonight i was dueling this necro named Colorr on my 90 ranger {He and everyone says he is the best lol so he said but wrong},and I owned him, so instead of congratulating me or saying "good fight" right away he cries ..........drum roll !!!! bang bang bang ........ "Haxx"!!!!! He claims I used a hack to lag him out so I can just fire away,and rock him lol Yes and I seen a UFO flying around Mara !!</p><p>When you fight a ranger with over 60 meters using an underfoot bow,extension,and the charm from Miragul you are not getting a lifeburn of....i have the range over your panzie CAS</p><p>So as far as he was concerned....he lost the duel because of haxx lol Nooo, you just are not the best you thought you were lol He was crying for a solid half hour lol</p><p>Yes Capitan big foot exists...the loch ness monster is still swimming around scotland,the gnomes are building UFOS !!! Conspiracys a go go !!!</p></blockquote><p>Hm... First of all. I don't believe Colorr says he is the best, I know the guy and he never said anything like that. Second of all if you think killing someone from max range with a 50m bow as a ranger (unless it's another ranger with a 50m bow) makes you good or them bad, you're wrong. And thirdy of all, your post has nothing to do with the topic.</p>

Infernalbeauty
04-03-2012, 08:26 PM
<p>if I am wrong than a sin using PFT,SSing and using 4 buttons is wrong,same as a bard popping VON is wrong,same as a bruiser with 4 death saves is wrong,same as a warlock/wizard with PB/manaburn is wrong,same as a Beastlord saving Primals and unleashing them together is wrong,same as a necro {tsk tsk} using lifeburn in PVP,and not losing health now is wrong,same as an inquis with reactives is wrong,same as a mystic with wards is wrong,and the same as a warden that never runs out of power is wrong.....</p>

Rotate
04-04-2012, 02:41 AM
<p>ok i seen this in two wfs now in t9.. in Kp..    knightly w/e something like that a plate healer.. warping around lagging out.. and experinced entire zone just lag out when a group of freeport engaged a bunch of q's. the q's couldnt do anything lag was retarted delays</p>

Dorsan
04-04-2012, 09:41 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>if I am wrong than a sin using PFT,SSing and using 4 buttons is wrong</p></blockquote><p>That won't really work vs all classes, for example bards, and the sin can get cc'd during that. A warden can just stoneskin himself during the PFT, a necro can fear them and get away, there are tons of counters to it.</p><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>a bard popping VON is wrong</p></blockquote><p>A bard popping VON also has counters, it is only good vs scouts really, anything else will survive the bards pathetic DPS and it won't even phase mages.</p><p><cite>[email protected]fen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>a bruiser with 4 death saves is wrong</p></blockquote><p>Bruisers and monks are a bit OP especially vs melee classes, but again, there are tons of classes that can survive the 4 death saves and kill them (my necro can do it for example).</p><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>a warlock/wizard with PB/manaburn is wrong,same as a Beastlord saving Primals and unleashing them together is wrong</p></blockquote><p>None of those abilities are extremely overpowered and all those classes need to be -in range- to use them. You can counter them easily on many classes.</p><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>a necro {tsk tsk} using lifeburn in PVP,and not losing health now is wrong</p></blockquote><p>Necros do lose health in PvP but since the maximum LB damage is based on 60% max health of the enemy and the ratio is 1 to 4, we will lose only 15% max health and we usually follow LB with a lifetap to regain some of it, so it isn't noticable.</p><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>an inquis with reactives is wrong,same as a mystic with wards is wrong,and the same as a warden that never runs out of power is wrong.....</p></blockquote><p>Nope, those are simply abilities.</p><p>What is wrong with a ranger with 50 meters bow is that it is impossible to counter it. The ranger with 50 meters bow will stack snares on you from 50 meters and even if he wouldn't stack snares you can't get into range because his movement speed will be the same as yours and you can't cast a single spell. Anyone can play a ranger with 50 meters bow and get kills. All they need to do is keep on the maximum distance and have autoattack on. You don't even need to cast a single CA. And if the other person gets in range due to some unforseen miracle, you just sprint away while they need to stand still to cast anything. That is why I said, killing someone with a ranger does not make you good and it does not make them bad either. It's just silly game mechanics. Snares need to have immunities and stop stacking, maximum range in pvp should be reduced to 35 meters. Killing people from 50 meteres while they are snared to snail speed is just cheap mechanic.</p>

Vivender
04-04-2012, 08:02 PM
<p>@InfernalBeauty</p><p>You do realize that the person responsible for the lag has the ability to decide when it ends and therefore queue up abilities like crazy right when they "flip the switch"</p><p>@YimWay</p><p>Yes, I have seen people in chat mentioning something about these Calls and how they may affect it. Another thing for SOE to look into, assuming they're even listening.</p><p>@Everyone</p><p>Honestly, I just hope that the server maintenance on Thursday fixes this. I am so sick of hearing the claims of "Hacks!", it's tiresome. Hopefully part of the server maintenance will be either fixing a technical issue that is causing it, or implementing ways to bar (or track) these exploits/hacks.</p>

Bloodrage
04-17-2012, 01:32 AM
<p>Dear SoE:</p><p>I know by now that you will probably not do anything to improve anything on the nagafen server but umm... here goes... People are blatenly using lag hacks to cause everyone in zone to lag out everytime they are about to die in pvp. I will be sitting in a warfield with 60+ players near a tower with 30+ mercs out and all kinds of spell effects rendering with no lag... I will then engage certain players in pvp and as soon as they are about to die bam! the whole zone lags out and they get away. Recently I have also seen this done in battlegrounds. Certain players who I cannot name due to silly blacklisting crap will grab the flag in ganak, activate their lag hacks, everyone will lag out, and they will escape with the flag & the lag won't end until they return the enemy flag to their base. I have recorded many people in t4 on the qeynos side using this program or whatever it is to escape death in many zones outside of warfields, even zones that only me and the enemy players are in. This is not some random server lag as you can clearly see in the many videos I sent in, it only happens right when they are about to die and is used specifically so they can escape.</p>

imgrounded
04-18-2012, 04:03 PM
<p>Thats not all they can do, lately i been seeing people exploit mentoring to not give updates, just the other day i saw manthrob's group ganking players in the new zone, figured this would be a good topic to point this out, one person mentors and the whole group becomes a mentored encounter, giving you no updates even if you kill them as a white con</p>

Maegi
04-22-2012, 10:37 PM
<p>Claimoh is a blatent lag hacker, i've had him red twice and both times the fight was normal, till i killed his merc and he went red on health, then BAM whole zone lag freeze. Didn't stop till he had his merc back and i was out of power from trying to kill him during the lag. He and the rest of his guild of hacker elites *cough*devils*cough*</p>

Bloodrage
04-24-2012, 05:06 AM
<p><cite>Maegi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Claimoh is a blatent lag hacker, i've had him red twice and both times the fight was normal, till i killed his merc and he went red on health, then BAM whole zone lag freeze. Didn't stop till he had his merc back and i was out of power from trying to kill him during the lag. He and the rest of his guild of hacker elites *cough*devils*cough*</p></blockquote><p>They should rename the guild <Rays of Laghacks> to flaunt their hacking like the guild <Fat Kids Lag IRL> did.</p>

Infernalbeauty
04-24-2012, 07:44 AM
<p>Is this a fact or are you assuming ? lol</p><p>The witch hunt goes on !!!</p>

Baackdoor
04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
<p>people who farm alts really shouldnt been pointing fingers and accusing ppl on lagging w/e, you farm alts for godsake, go back in your corner and cry</p>

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04-25-2012, 11:25 AM
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Piestro
04-25-2012, 04:55 PM
<p>If you have information about abuse or suspected abuse bring it to CS. Discussing hypotheticals like this on the forum cannot lead to productive conversation.</p>