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View Full Version : SOE focus on Station Items for sale will not be profitable


Deornwulf
01-15-2012, 04:23 PM
<p>I doubt that any of the suits who make the decisions about focusing the Dev time on Station Cash items will actually read or even acknowledge the content of this post but I'm going to rant anyway.</p><p>There are lots of very nice items available for purchase through the SC Store. It's obvious that some very creative people spent a great deal of time making these items for the game. The prestige houses, the furniture, the appearance items, all of it nice enough looking for players to want to purchase them...if they actually stay long enough with the game to appreciate the items.</p><p>That is where SOE is failing and possibly short-changing themselves out of future profits. The Dev team does not spend enough time on things that don't require station cash to purchase, things that are necessary to keep players playing the game. Sure, someone will try EQ2 out as a Free-To-Play account, maybe buy a few things if they like it. However, eventually, the player will grow tired of everything new or really nice added to the game being sold via the SC Store and quit.</p><p>For example, hundreds of appearance items have been added to the store while Tailors have gotten nothing added to their recipe books that even comes close. Cool Furniture and building blocks have been added to the store while Carpenters got to make some jewelry. So many prestige houses have been added that the Devs had to consolidate all of the portals into a single object yet nothing new was added to houses with the new Freeport. (All of which are very basic boring variations on the same theme.)</p><p>Basically, I wish the Dev Team and the corporate bean counters behind the decisions would realize that it's important to add some of the appearance type items or new housing to the game for free as hooks to keep the players wanting to stay around long enough to keep spending money in the Station Cash Store. In fact, new things could be added in a manner that encourages players to spend more SC.</p><p>Imagine if 8 new housing floorplans were added to Freeport and Qeynos with totally new choices for appearance upgrades (Walls, floors, ceilings), along with addition appearance upgrade sets being offered strictly through the SC Store. players would be tempted and likely purchase those upgrades for their houses. The same strategy could be done with appearance items and furniture, add half of a set as new tradeskill recipes and offer the items that complete the sets for sale on the SC Store.</p><p>It's a business strategy of having "loss leaders" that bring the shoppers into the store making it more likely that they will spend money. There is more the the F2P Model than just offering everything up for sale, there have to be hooks that keep the shoppers coming back for more. </p>

Durgstyler
01-15-2012, 04:39 PM
<p>I just recently came back to this game after leaving in 2004. Im just overwhealmed (and thrilled) of the ammount of content the game has to offer. I've spent 4600 SC (one bag and one expansion to get mercs) and I got gold membership.</p><p>I think this game has so much more to offer for solo and relaxed players who arent necessarily only playing to get higher stats on their gear and higher crits.</p><p>If they are taking away dev time to make these vanity items, i can understand. You should see my house <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> its hilarious... just garbage here and there cus i didnt wanna destroy the furniture... I still got loads of furniture in /claim as I've bought everything except DoV.. I will buy it tho eventually I think.</p>

Deago
01-15-2012, 04:41 PM
<p>You can have multiple homes now etc.. Prestige housing with large areas etc...</p><p>Just saying incase you did not know from return.</p><p>Good luck!</p>

IvyBlackrose
01-15-2012, 04:48 PM
to the contrary soe is actually making money faster than they can spend it with their cash shop items....my only issue is the prices are a bit higher than i like for virtual items, for example the new wings in the cash shop...they are absolutely gorgeous but I simply cannot justify to my wife spending 20 dollars on something that will someday be gone because it is virtual(crafted out of thin air) BUT she would have no problem whatsoever if those same wings were only 10 bux and not only that but i could probably justify spending for two sets of wings for two toons at 10 X 2 = 20 rather than the 20 X 1 = 20... kind of like the AOD expansion I wasnt able to justify to her spending 40 dollars on it, but if it were only 20 dollars I would be able to get it......

Valdaglerion
01-15-2012, 05:21 PM
<p>When players with expendable income fail to enjoy the game and walk away the marketplace wont mean much.</p><p>SOE should really at this point put everything in game on marketplace and everything on marketplace in game for purchase with either plat or as quest rewards.</p><p>Let those with more expendable income subsidize game development without isolating the players of either gaming style. Some people can play daily for 8+ hours, most cant. Keep pandering to those who can and they will continue to lose players that cant.</p>

Tayne
01-15-2012, 05:36 PM
<p>I've been playing EQ2 for seven-plus years. Still not bored. I can't imagine how someone new, coming into a game with virtually thousands of quests, rich lore, free in-game stuff like crafting and collections and quested/raid gear would get bored and leave. If they do, then perhaps it's just a matter that this game's style just isn't for them -- and that's fine. But for most players, this game offers an almost bottomless series of choices and discoveries that they will stay and play.  The hook is already there -- has been for many of us who have been playing since 2004 -- or we'd be long gone by now.</p><p>The market stuff is just fluff. You don't need to buy a thing to enjoy the game fully -- well except for maybe the DOV expansion, but you don't even need that really until you hit your mid-80s. The rest of it are perks that a player can CHOOSE to either buy or ignore.</p>

agnott
01-15-2012, 06:03 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The market stuff is just fluff. You don't need to buy a thing to enjoy the game fully -- well except for maybe the DOV expansion, but you don't even need that really until you hit your mid-80s. The rest of it are perks that a player can CHOOSE to either buy or ignore.</p></blockquote><p>Do you think anyone will come into the game and see people flying around and just say  "oh thats just fluff ..I don't need that"?</p>

Tayne
01-15-2012, 06:06 PM
<p><cite>agnott wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The market stuff is just fluff. You don't need to buy a thing to enjoy the game fully -- well except for maybe the DOV expansion, but you don't even need that really until you hit your mid-80s. The rest of it are perks that a player can CHOOSE to either buy or ignore.</p></blockquote><p>Do you think anyone will come into the game and see people flying around and just say  "oh thats just fluff ..I don't need that"?</p></blockquote><p>Yes, but you need to be level 85 to fly .. and you CAN get one for free via a quest (assuming you've bought DOV -- which you kind of need for end-game stuff when you finally get to that level -- and by that time you'll have figured out whether this game is for you or not, and if buying DOV is worth it to you or not -- at least I would hope someone would! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />)</p><p>Still, you don't NEED to fly to enjoy the game, y'know?</p>

Felshades
01-15-2012, 06:21 PM
<p><cite>IvyBlackrose wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>to the contrary soe is actually making money faster than they can spend it with their cash shop items....my only issue is the prices are a bit higher than i like for virtual items, for example the new wings in the cash shop...they are absolutely gorgeous but I simply cannot justify to my wife spending 20 dollars on something that will someday be gone because it is virtual(crafted out of thin air) BUT she would have no problem whatsoever if those same wings were only 10 bux and not only that but i could probably justify spending for two sets of wings for two toons at 10 X 2 = 20 rather than the 20 X 1 = 20... kind of like the AOD expansion I wasnt able to justify to her spending 40 dollars on it, but if it were only 20 dollars I would be able to get it......</blockquote><p>You got a point.</p><p>And honestly... if it wasn't profitable they wouldn't be putting out new items constantly...</p><p>lol.</p>

Xenxex
01-15-2012, 06:37 PM
<p>Need unattuner on market place.</p>

Deornwulf
01-15-2012, 07:11 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>IvyBlackrose wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>to the contrary soe is actually making money faster than they can spend it with their cash shop items....my only issue is the prices are a bit higher than i like for virtual items, for example the new wings in the cash shop...they are absolutely gorgeous but I simply cannot justify to my wife spending 20 dollars on something that will someday be gone because it is virtual(crafted out of thin air) BUT she would have no problem whatsoever if those same wings were only 10 bux and not only that but i could probably justify spending for two sets of wings for two toons at 10 X 2 = 20 rather than the 20 X 1 = 20... kind of like the AOD expansion I wasnt able to justify to her spending 40 dollars on it, but if it were only 20 dollars I would be able to get it......</blockquote><p>You got a point.</p><p>And honestly... if it wasn't profitable they wouldn't be putting out new items constantly...</p><p>lol.</p></blockquote><p>And the farmer can get a great deal of money selling the dairy cow as meat...and then he has no more cows.</p><p>My point is to not stop putting out items on the marketplace, it's that the suits need a more sustainable business model by introducing new items in the game that spur one to spend on the marketplace to make those things better.</p>

Tayne
01-15-2012, 07:32 PM
<p><cite>Deornwulf wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My point is to not stop putting out items on the marketplace, it's that the suits need a more sustainable business model by introducing new items in the game that spur one to spend on the marketplace to make those things better.</p></blockquote><p>Seven-plus years for a MMO is pretty significant -- and clearly indicative of sustainability.</p><p><cite>Deornwulf wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The same strategy could be done with appearance items and furniture, add half of a set as new tradeskill recipes and offer the items that complete the sets for sale on the SC Store.</p></blockquote><p>Your suggestion of offering crafters/adventurers half of anything would create a huge uproar. The worst thing you can do is offer folks half of a complete package -- because then they feel ripped off, like they're forced to actually fork out money to complete something.</p><p>So Bob is able to craft the table and lamps of the new "Equestria" series of furniture, but to complete the room he has to buy the bed with real cash? Whereas now he has the choice of buying the entire bedroom suite, or not. Even worse: Bob has the recipe for the pants and cuffs for an appearance item, but he has to fork out real money to buy the chest piece? Gah, no.</p><p>The half-offer feels too bait-and-switch to me, and I suspect others would feel the same way.</p>

Snowdonia
01-15-2012, 08:57 PM
<p><cite>IvyBlackrose wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>to the contrary soe is actually making money faster than they can spend it with their cash shop items....my only issue is the prices are a bit higher than i like for virtual items, for example the new wings in the cash shop...they are absolutely gorgeous but I simply cannot justify to my wife spending 20 dollars on something that will someday be gone because it is virtual(crafted out of thin air) BUT she would have no problem whatsoever if those same wings were only 10 bux and not only that but i could probably justify spending for two sets of wings for two toons at 10 X 2 = 20 rather than the 20 X 1 = 20... kind of like the AOD expansion I wasnt able to justify to her spending 40 dollars on it, but if it were only 20 dollars I would be able to get it......</blockquote><p>Just gotta wait for the next double SC event. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Tayne
01-15-2012, 09:26 PM
<p>I want a Snowdonia designer bot to decorate all my homes. /nod</p>

TwistedFaith
01-15-2012, 09:54 PM
<p>What's annoying me is seeing weekly station cash/marketplace items being added to the game but ZERO actual content. The expansion was a disgrace and since then all we have had is a stream of marketplace rubbish.</p><p>EDIT: Ohh look as I type this, I see dominio has posted a video about a new armour set and new houses coming to marketplace! </p>

Rainmare
01-15-2012, 10:26 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Deornwulf wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My point is to not stop putting out items on the marketplace, it's that the suits need a more sustainable business model by introducing new items in the game that spur one to spend on the marketplace to make those things better.</p></blockquote><p>Seven-plus years for a MMO is pretty significant -- and clearly indicative of sustainability.</p><p><cite>Deornwulf wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The same strategy could be done with appearance items and furniture, add half of a set as new tradeskill recipes and offer the items that complete the sets for sale on the SC Store.</p></blockquote><p>Your suggestion of offering crafters/adventurers half of anything would create a huge uproar. The worst thing you can do is offer folks half of a complete package -- because then they feel ripped off, like they're forced to actually fork out money to complete something.</p><p>So Bob is able to craft the table and lamps of the new "Equestria" series of furniture, but to complete the room he has to buy the bed with real cash? Whereas now he has the choice of buying the entire bedroom suite, or not. Even worse: Bob has the recipe for the pants and cuffs for an appearance item, but he has to fork out real money to buy the chest piece? Gah, no.</p><p>The half-offer feels too bait-and-switch to me, and I suspect others would feel the same way.</p></blockquote><p>actually I think more what he was saying with that scenario is the carp makes the bed/chair/vanity table, the SC store gets the bedside table/sconce/mirror</p><p>as in the capr gets the 'essential' components of a set, and the SC store gets the 'addatives' to that set.</p>

Zepor
01-15-2012, 10:57 PM
<p><cite>Deornwulf wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>IvyBlackrose wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>to the contrary soe is actually making money faster than they can spend it with their cash shop items....my only issue is the prices are a bit higher than i like for virtual items, for example the new wings in the cash shop...they are absolutely gorgeous but I simply cannot justify to my wife spending 20 dollars on something that will someday be gone because it is virtual(crafted out of thin air) BUT she would have no problem whatsoever if those same wings were only 10 bux and not only that but i could probably justify spending for two sets of wings for two toons at 10 X 2 = 20 rather than the 20 X 1 = 20... kind of like the AOD expansion I wasnt able to justify to her spending 40 dollars on it, but if it were only 20 dollars I would be able to get it......</blockquote><p>You got a point.</p><p>And honestly... if it wasn't profitable they wouldn't be putting out new items constantly...</p><p>lol.</p></blockquote><p>And the farmer can get a great deal of money selling the dairy cow as meat...and then he has no more cows.</p><p>My point is to not stop putting out items on the marketplace, it's that the suits need a more sustainable business model by introducing new items in the game that spur one to spend on the marketplace to make those things better.</p></blockquote><p>This is probably the best and most accurate representation of what Sony has done to the game.  They already sold the cows, they are on the truck to the slaughterhouse.  They don't care about money in the long run, they know the game is dying.. they are just squeezing out every drop they can.  The game will never fully die, almost every online game *EVER* released is still up and running with a tiny dedicated fanbase. </p><p>That's EQ2 now.</p>

Castegyre
01-15-2012, 11:39 PM
<p><cite>TwistedFaith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What's annoying me is seeing weekly station cash/marketplace items being added to the game but ZERO actual content. The expansion was a disgrace and since then all we have had is a stream of marketplace rubbish.</p><p>EDIT: Ohh look as I type this, I see dominio has posted a video about a new armour set and new houses coming to marketplace! </p></blockquote><p>This is actually part of the reason why I eventually left CoH. I know a lot of people around here thought that game sucked because it didn't have the same hamster wheel to run on they were used to at end game, but at one time the dev team and the community was one of the best of any online game I had ever played. I started playing it just after launch and kept playing it off and on until almost a year ago. It's the only game I've played over the years more than EQ2.</p><p>But something happend around the time Cryptic split and NCSoft took over through Paragon Studios. They used to have Issues (Game Updates) released on a fairly regular basis and often those Issues would have some sort of costume bits in them. Playing dress-up with costumes is a huge deal in that game and one of the main reasons a lot of people loved playing it. Kind of like housing here. Then they came out with the Wedding Pack to earn a little extra money and people ate it up. $10 for some unique costumes and emotes seemd fair enough to help the devs generate a little money to keep the game going, so people were willing ot buy it.</p><p>Skip ahead a few months and suddenly, more costume packs. Then they were like clockwork, one after another, $10 each every few months. Before long there were no more free costume bits in the Issues. One time from the release of the Wedding pack to the time I quit playing did they add free costume bits and those were just skins to apply to what was already there. It became common that if you wanted new stuff for your look you had to pay $10 for the new costume pack because that was the only way you were going to get it.</p><p>This game isn't quite that bad yet, but I can see it heading that way.</p>

Felshades
01-16-2012, 03:11 AM
<p><cite>Deornwulf wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>IvyBlackrose wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>to the contrary soe is actually making money faster than they can spend it with their cash shop items....my only issue is the prices are a bit higher than i like for virtual items, for example the new wings in the cash shop...they are absolutely gorgeous but I simply cannot justify to my wife spending 20 dollars on something that will someday be gone because it is virtual(crafted out of thin air) BUT she would have no problem whatsoever if those same wings were only 10 bux and not only that but i could probably justify spending for two sets of wings for two toons at 10 X 2 = 20 rather than the 20 X 1 = 20... kind of like the AOD expansion I wasnt able to justify to her spending 40 dollars on it, but if it were only 20 dollars I would be able to get it......</blockquote><p>You got a point.</p><p>And honestly... if it wasn't profitable they wouldn't be putting out new items constantly...</p><p>lol.</p></blockquote><p>And the farmer can get a great deal of money selling the dairy cow as meat...and then he has no more cows.</p><p>My point is to not stop putting out items on the marketplace, it's that the suits need a more sustainable business model by introducing new items in the game that spur one to spend on the marketplace to make those things better.</p></blockquote><p>Funny. Over here in California the price of milk has gone belly up and farmers have made more profit selling their herds for slaughter, and then using part of the proceeds to... buy more cows.</p><p>And this is the future of MMOs. Cash shops. Like it or not, it's the most profitable business model atm, and it's here to stay.</p>

TwistedFaith
01-16-2012, 03:17 AM
<p><cite>Castegyre wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>One time from the release of the Wedding pack to the time I quit playing did they add free costume bits and those were just skins to apply to what was already there. It became common that if you wanted new stuff for your look you had to pay $10 for the new costume pack because that was the only way you were going to get it.</p><p>This game isn't quite that bad yet, but I can see it heading that way.</p></blockquote><p>Well imo the last few months have been hands down the worst of EQ2s lifecycle. I have played since launch and I have never felt so frustrated with the game at present. If it wasn't that I don't want to screw my guild over and quit the game when they are struggling to find new players to replace the ones that have already quit then I would have left myself.</p><p>More than anything, I feel the whole focus on marketplace items has got so far out of hand it's bordering on crazy. I never used to care about the marketplace stuff, but over the course of the past six months it has been nothing but a endless stream of marketplace stuff and just no actual content.</p><p>I check the forums daily to see dev posts, and they all seem to be about addressing marketplace problems, never anything about fixing really basic stuff that has been broken for ages. As for the producer, quite honestly I think he's full of it, and reminds me more of a used car salesman than a producer. </p><p>This leads me to my major complaint, where's the damm new content! The expansion pack was awful awful awful, I don't care what anyone says, the expansion was shockingly bad and a insult and slap in the face to the community. Just look at the dungeon creator, what a complete waste of time. Nobody I know on Butcherblock is running player made dungeons, they have gone the same way as battlegrounds and the arena. Look at the freeport update, it's nice but really in terms of actual content it's pointless. </p><p>What happened to new content, where are the new dungeons, when we get something it's always a redo of a previous zone with a few different mobs, it's cheap and all seems a major afterthought.</p>

Felshades
01-16-2012, 03:21 AM
<p><cite>Castegyre wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>TwistedFaith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What's annoying me is seeing weekly station cash/marketplace items being added to the game but ZERO actual content. The expansion was a disgrace and since then all we have had is a stream of marketplace rubbish.</p><p>EDIT: Ohh look as I type this, I see dominio has posted a video about a new armour set and new houses coming to marketplace! </p></blockquote><p>This is actually part of the reason why I eventually left CoH. I know a lot of people around here thought that game sucked because it didn't have the same hamster wheel to run on they were used to at end game, but at one time the dev team and the community was one of the best of any online game I had ever played. I started playing it just after launch and kept playing it off and on until almost a year ago. It's the only game I've played over the years more than EQ2.</p><p>But something happend around the time Cryptic split and NCSoft took over through Paragon Studios. They used to have Issues (Game Updates) released on a fairly regular basis and often those Issues would have some sort of costume bits in them. Playing dress-up with costumes is a huge deal in that game and one of the main reasons a lot of people loved playing it. Kind of like housing here. Then they came out with the Wedding Pack to earn a little extra money and people ate it up. $10 for some unique costumes and emotes seemd fair enough to help the devs generate a little money to keep the game going, so people were willing ot buy it.</p><p>Skip ahead a few months and suddenly, more costume packs. Then they were like clockwork, one after another, $10 each every few months. Before long there were no more free costume bits in the Issues. One time from the release of the Wedding pack to the time I quit playing did they add free costume bits and those were just skins to apply to what was already there. It became common that if you wanted new stuff for your look you had to pay $10 for the new costume pack because that was the only way you were going to get it.</p><p>This game isn't quite that bad yet, but I can see it heading that way.</p></blockquote><p>MMOs as a whole are going that way.</p><p>Here's how the model works.</p><p>Guy sees game box. Box says "free to play!". Guy thinks "oh hey I don't have to pay monthly to play this.. I'll give it a shot." Guy plays game. Sees cash shop. Sees something shiny he likes. Figures eh, I can fork out a buck fifty for this shiny looking sword(or insert your favorite little item here). Then he sees another he likes. Then something else. Then something else. Guy ends up paying more than the 15 a month sub that would have been paid if the game used that model.</p><p>The microtransaction free to play model feeds off the gambling addiction type behavior. People get addicted to buying little things and keep buying more and more and more.</p><p>That is what they want you to do. They don't honestly care if you stick around, because for every one that leaves, another will take their place. That's how f2p games roll. They're not after loyal fanbases.</p><p>Look at FarmVille, for example.</p><p>Its one of the most successful, most popular Facebook games right now. It brings in MILLIONS. Quarter 1 of last year they lost over half their playerbase(83 million in spring 2010 to 39 million Q! 2011) and they still brought in over 230 million dollars.</p><p>In the first three months of the year.</p><p>And while you can play the game perfectly fine free... if you want to do anything substantial, you fork out cash. And people do it. A LOT.</p>

Felshades
01-16-2012, 03:23 AM
<p><cite>TwistedFaith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Castegyre wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>One time from the release of the Wedding pack to the time I quit playing did they add free costume bits and those were just skins to apply to what was already there. It became common that if you wanted new stuff for your look you had to pay $10 for the new costume pack because that was the only way you were going to get it.</p><p>This game isn't quite that bad yet, but I can see it heading that way.</p></blockquote><p>Well imo the last few months have been hands down the worst of EQ2s lifecycle. I have played since launch and I have never felt so frustrated with the game at present. If it wasn't that I don't want to screw my guild over and quit the game when they are struggling to find new players to replace the ones that have already quit then I would have left myself.</p><p>More than anything, I feel the whole focus on marketplace items has got so far out of hand it's bordering on crazy. I never used to care about the marketplace stuff, but over the course of the past six months it has been nothing but a endless stream of marketplace stuff and just no actual content.</p><p>I check the forums daily to see dev posts, and they all seem to be about addressing marketplace problems, never anything about fixing really basic stuff that has been broken for ages. As for the producer, quite honestly I think he's full of it, and reminds me more of a used car salesman than a producer. </p><p>This leads me to my major complaint, where's the damm new content! The expansion pack was awful awful awful, I don't care what anyone says, the expansion was shockingly bad and a insult and slap in the face to the community. Just look at the dungeon creator, what a complete waste of time. Nobody I know on Butcherblock is running player made dungeons, they have gone the same way as battlegrounds and the arena. Look at the freeport update, it's nice but really in terms of actual content it's pointless. </p><p>What happened to new content, where are the new dungeons, when we get something it's always a redo of a previous zone with a few different mobs, it's cheap and all seems a major afterthought.</p></blockquote><p>Another thing to note:</p><p>The marketplace team is not the same team that's making content for this game. Different people. You're yelling at the wrong folks. Marketplace guys do not do game content in what you'd like them to do, and theyre not going to pull people off a profitable project to make content when they have another group doing it.</p>

Castegyre
01-16-2012, 03:35 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>TwistedFaith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Castegyre wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>One time from the release of the Wedding pack to the time I quit playing did they add free costume bits and those were just skins to apply to what was already there. It became common that if you wanted new stuff for your look you had to pay $10 for the new costume pack because that was the only way you were going to get it.</p><p>This game isn't quite that bad yet, but I can see it heading that way.</p></blockquote><p>Well imo the last few months have been hands down the worst of EQ2s lifecycle. I have played since launch and I have never felt so frustrated with the game at present. If it wasn't that I don't want to screw my guild over and quit the game when they are struggling to find new players to replace the ones that have already quit then I would have left myself.</p><p>More than anything, I feel the whole focus on marketplace items has got so far out of hand it's bordering on crazy. I never used to care about the marketplace stuff, but over the course of the past six months it has been nothing but a endless stream of marketplace stuff and just no actual content.</p><p>I check the forums daily to see dev posts, and they all seem to be about addressing marketplace problems, never anything about fixing really basic stuff that has been broken for ages. As for the producer, quite honestly I think he's full of it, and reminds me more of a used car salesman than a producer. </p><p>This leads me to my major complaint, where's the damm new content! The expansion pack was awful awful awful, I don't care what anyone says, the expansion was shockingly bad and a insult and slap in the face to the community. Just look at the dungeon creator, what a complete waste of time. Nobody I know on Butcherblock is running player made dungeons, they have gone the same way as battlegrounds and the arena. Look at the freeport update, it's nice but really in terms of actual content it's pointless. </p><p>What happened to new content, where are the new dungeons, when we get something it's always a redo of a previous zone with a few different mobs, it's cheap and all seems a major afterthought.</p></blockquote><p>Another thing to note:</p><p>The marketplace team is not the same team that's making content for this game. Different people. You're yelling at the wrong folks. Marketplace guys do not do game content in what you'd like them to do, and theyre not going to pull people off a profitable project to make content when they have another group doing it.</p></blockquote><p>I think most people understand that there are different teams of people working on different parts of the game for the most part with MMOs, but the knee-jerk reaction is to see a trend and blame the developer as a whole for it. Sometimes it's not even the dev team who deserves the blame in part or as a whole, but the people with the money who are telling them what to do. Which I would suspect is the problem here, SOE is the one calling these shots more than the EQ2 staff themselves. That would explain a lot of the out of touch stupidity.</p>

Blissa2362
01-16-2012, 11:36 AM
<p>I think what you guys fail to realize is that a good 80%+ of the f2p players are here to just do that. Play for free and not spend a dime. Its the long term commitment guys that are willing to fork over cash hand over fist because they have a attachment to the game.</p><p>As others have stated SOE is digging their own grave with this game. The only new things they add to the game are SC only. Sooner or latter (Sooner if you ask me) the loyal fanbase is going to get board with the game and move on because nothing ever changes.</p><p>Seriously how many times can you run the same content over and over and over before your board out of your mind. If people were happy playing the same content over and over. Developers wouldnt be able to sell new games.</p><p>Once SOE drives away its loyal fanbase the profits are going to tank and maybe even the game. As it stands right now SOE has the worst name in the MMO community and by abandoning its loyal fanbase. They are only adding fuel to the fire!</p>

Jovie
01-16-2012, 12:20 PM
<p>I just wish there was something worthwhile to buy in the store.</p><p>Guild levels, guild hall amenity boosters, harvest rare packs (bring this back please), the ability to have more than one merc running at one time, etc....</p><p>I am not interested in fluff outside the guild halls.</p>

isest
01-16-2012, 12:21 PM
<p>OK guys you don't get whats happened with the game.  It has been dumbed down to the point you really don't need a group.  Now they done away with subs and made it to where anybody who can stomach free to play with all its limitations available to play. The only folks who need subs are old time raiders like me, or folks who cant stand the limitations of free to play.  The rest of the folks get subsidized off the station cash shop, and the subs.</p><p>Like it or not soe has changed the demographic of who they want playing this game, unfortunately I don't seam to fit into the demographic of who they want playing the game as I ignore the station cash shop.  The station cash shop is the new currency and money maker for soe. Smedley tweeted the other day that since free to play went live they had a 200% increase in station cash sales.  Obviously folks are buying the stuff, heck we got one person in guild who buy s everything they put in there, she has a special title because she got every mount in game and in the store.</p><p>What has happened is we become free-realms eq2, and that's what they want, they want folks to get appearance items, get all the mounts and stuff.</p><p>Too bad they are not reinvesting the money in the game and fixing broken parts of it,  Heck soe the other day sold the publishing rites to some  company in Europe to publish their games for them, thus cutting off the Europe guys from us.  Kind of like it used to be for lotro with code-masters, except worse.</p><p>To be honest, what I think is going on is were being used to test out stuff they are going to do with eqnext.</p><p>The station cash shop is here to stay, and as long as folks are spending cash in it that is where the development team is going to stay, sad thing is once a while back when sj became our producer he said "we don't have separate teams for the cash shop and for the regular game", and it sure shows, after all look at that terrible excuse of a zero content xpac they tried to pawn off on us.</p>

agnott
01-16-2012, 12:31 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And this is the future of MMOs. Cash shops. Like it or not, it's the most profitable business model atm, and it's here to stay.</p></blockquote><p>This is what I find hysterical. You spend 50, 100, 200 a month on the market place and then state this model is here to stay and you think your behavior has nothing to do with it.</p><p>That is comedy gold.</p><p>(here is comes  ...I know you don't use the market place)</p>

Rijacki
01-16-2012, 01:11 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Deornwulf wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My point is to not stop putting out items on the marketplace, it's that the suits need a more sustainable business model by introducing new items in the game that spur one to spend on the marketplace to make those things better.</p></blockquote><p>Seven-plus years for a MMO is pretty significant -- and clearly indicative of sustainability.</p><p><cite>Deornwulf wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The same strategy could be done with appearance items and furniture, add half of a set as new tradeskill recipes and offer the items that complete the sets for sale on the SC Store.</p></blockquote><p>Your suggestion of offering crafters/adventurers half of anything would create a huge uproar. The worst thing you can do is offer folks half of a complete package -- because then they feel ripped off, like they're forced to actually fork out money to complete something.</p><p>So Bob is able to craft the table and lamps of the new "Equestria" series of furniture, but to complete the room he has to buy the bed with real cash? Whereas now he has the choice of buying the entire bedroom suite, or not. Even worse: Bob has the recipe for the pants and cuffs for an appearance item, but he has to fork out real money to buy the chest piece? Gah, no.</p><p>The half-offer feels too bait-and-switch to me, and I suspect others would feel the same way.</p></blockquote><p>actually I think more what he was saying with that scenario is the carp makes the bed/chair/vanity table, the SC store gets the bedside table/sconce/mirror</p><p>as in the capr gets the 'essential' components of a set, and the SC store gets the 'addatives' to that set.</p></blockquote><p>An even better way to do it is to have 3 colour sets on Marketplace,  a 4th colour set in-game craftable, a 5th colour set for sale by an NPC (i.e. a faction merchant or some such). Sure, if it was done like that there would be at least one complainer about the 'best' colours only being on Marketplace, but you will always have someone complaining.</p>

Nrgy
01-16-2012, 01:25 PM
<p><cite>TwistedFaith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What's annoying me is seeing weekly station cash/marketplace items being added to the game but ZERO actual content. The expansion was a disgrace and since then all we have had is a stream of marketplace rubbish.</p><p>EDIT: Ohh look as I type this, I see dominio has posted a video about a new armour set and new houses coming to marketplace! </p></blockquote><p>The game gets non-SC content added in chunks not in a trickle format such as SC marketplace items.  When GU's and Expansions are release they have much more total content than a couple of new flash armor sets or mounts.</p><p>The next GU will again add a large amount of non-SC content, as did the last.  I know many people don't find value in AOD making it an optional X-pack a good thing.  DOV is also technically optional, but less so than AOD IMO.</p><p>DOV 2.0 will contain far new land mass, items and house items than have been added via the SC cumultively since the last GU / X-pack.</p>

thewarriorpoet
01-16-2012, 01:31 PM
<p>Marr all mighty, not this AGAIN. This well intentioned thread is wrong for two very simple reaons. First, the SC items are netting SOE a huge ROI. Second, the modelers and graphic designers who make SC items are not the same software programmers and content writers who make traditional content (new zones aside, of course do use personale from the first group, but once the art assets are rendered the bulk of the work, I'd wager, is populating and scripting a zone; not to diminish the awesome artwork this game has even with its ages old graphics platform).</p><p>SC items are small and quick. You are seeing more of them for two more very simple reasons. People do want them, as evident by the bucket loads of money they are spending on them, and since they are quicker to produce why not make MUCH MORE of the product which has a faster turn around time and comes with a higher markup. This doesn't mean they are not making new content. So SOE is only making the bare minimum of content to keep you around the buy SC stuff. Trust me, that's not a whole lot different then what they were doing before, only not instead of trying to the bare minimum to keep you around for your sub they also want your SC.</p>

Katine
01-16-2012, 02:45 PM
<p>Contrary to what the title of this thread says, I think the station items WILL continue to be profitable for SOE.</p><p>I know many have mentioned about fixing bugs, new content in expansions, etc.  From a business perspective, those areas do not make money.  How many labor hours and developers does it take to create new content or debug existing bugs?  The costs of doing those things far exceeds the income SOE receives from regular monthly subscriptions.</p><p>Not to mention that bug fixing isn't going to bring in new players.  It "may" retain existing players, but definitely not new ones.  New expansions could bring in new players, but expansions to a new player who never played the game are a little intidimiating.  Especially since with an expansion the player has to buy at least some of the previous expansions, then play the game for a while until they CAN play in the expansion.</p><p>So, SOE finds the area where they can make the best profit with the least amount of operating costs - Station Cash Items.  It's instant gratification for someone playing the game, low overhead to develop, and brings in new players while entertaining at least half of existing players.</p>

dankaro
01-16-2012, 03:03 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just wish there was something worthwhile to buy in the store.</p><p>Guild levels, guild hall amenity boosters, harvest rare packs (bring this back please), the ability to have more than one merc running at one time, etc....</p><p>I am not interested in fluff outside the guild halls.</p></blockquote><p>No Rares for sale on market.</p>

Griffildur
01-16-2012, 03:55 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Contrary to what the title of this thread says, I think the station items WILL continue to be profitable for SOE.</p><p>I know many have mentioned about fixing bugs, new content in expansions, etc.  From a business perspective, those areas do not make money.  How many labor hours and developers does it take to create new content or debug existing bugs?  The costs of doing those things far exceeds the income SOE receives from regular monthly subscriptions.</p><p>Not to mention that <strong>bug fixing isn't going to bring in new players</strong>.  It "may" retain existing players, but definitely not new ones.  New expansions could bring in new players, but expansions to a new player who never played the game are a little intidimiating.  Especially since with an expansion the player has to buy at least some of the previous expansions, then play the game for a while until they CAN play in the expansion.</p><p>So, SOE finds the area where they can make the best profit with the least amount of operating costs - Station Cash Items.  It's instant gratification for someone playing the game, low overhead to develop, and brings in new players while entertaining at least half of existing players.</p></blockquote><p>The SC items may be succesful if the game is succesful. If there are no players left to play the game then the whole thing dies. Do you get it ? Cause I am not sure you do.</p><p>Eq2 must be succesful on its own and cannot rely on Marketplace alone. The bugs must be fixed if the people are expected to hang around.</p><p>Sometimes I wonder in what world do people like you live ?</p><p>If the game works, all big areas are sorted eq2 will bring in a lot more players.</p><p>Your statements are complete bollocks and show what kind of people we are "blessed" with these days.</p>

The_Cheeseman
01-16-2012, 04:18 PM
<p>Oh, another thread full of the exact same complaints people have been shouting since the Station Marketplace first launched. Yes, yes, EQ2 is dying and the developers don't care and the entire team is nothing but SC designers. Funny, because I have personally seen a huge influx of new players in recent months. Oh, and I am having a great time playing my new beastlord with all my friends, messing around with the dungeon maker, and various other AoD features. I even buy some fluff stuff from SC when I see something I'd like to have, because I realize that $15 per month is outrageously cheap for the entertainment value I derive from EQ2, and I have no problems supporting SOE with a bit extra every once in a while.</p><p>There is new content coming out in the upcoming February game update, just like SOE has been saying for months. As Smokejumper has personally said, EQ2's dev team is one of the largest in the company, with several teams working concurrently on different projects with different release dates. Station Cash fluff items are just the easiest and quickest to produce, so they get released more quickly.</p><p>Come on, people. EQ2 is doing fine and will continue to run until SOE decides to shut down the servers. It's a very successful franchise, with a large, established fanbase with strong inertia. People have been forecasting the demise of EQ2 for years, and almost all of them cite the exact same reasons that have been expressed in this thread. You're wrong. I know you won't believe me regardless of the evidence, but you're wrong. Now please, continue dissecting your conception of SOE's business model, the reality of which you have absolutely no information about.</p>

Felshades
01-16-2012, 04:23 PM
<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh, another thread full of the exact same complaints people have been shouting since the Station Marketplace first launched. Yes, yes, EQ2 is dying and the developers don't care and the entire team is nothing but SC designers. Funny, because I have personally seen a huge influx of new players in recent months. Oh, and I am having a great time playing my new beastlord with all my friends, messing around with the dungeon maker, and various other AoD features. I even buy some fluff stuff from SC when I see something I'd like to have, because I realize that $15 per month is outrageously cheap for the entertainment value I derive from EQ2, and I have no problems supporting SOE with a bit extra every once in a while.</p><p>There is new content coming out in the upcoming February game update, just like SOE has been saying for months. As Smokejumper has personally said, EQ2's dev team is one of the largest in the company, with several teams working concurrently on different projects with different release dates. Station Cash fluff items are just the easiest and quickest to produce, so they get released more quickly.</p><p>Come on, people. EQ2 is doing fine and will continue to run until SOE decides to shut down the servers. It's a very successful franchise, with a large, established fanbase with strong inertia. People have been forecasting the demise of EQ2 for years, and almost all of them cite the exact same reasons that have been expressed in this thread. You're wrong. I know you won't believe me regardless of the evidence, but you're wrong. Now please, continue dissecting your conception of SOE's business model, the reality of which you have absolutely no information about.</p></blockquote><p>I like you.</p>

Raknid
01-16-2012, 04:44 PM
<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Now please, continue dissecting your conception of SOE's business model, the reality of which you have absolutely no information about.</p></blockquote><p>FreeRealms, The Agency, DCUO (before F2P), etc... all smashing successes and money machines wouldn't you say? Don't act like SOE can do no wrong when they have plenty of flubs on their resumes.</p>

Blissa2362
01-16-2012, 04:50 PM
<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh, another thread full of the exact same complaints people have been shouting since the Station Marketplace first launched. Yes, yes, EQ2 is dying and the developers don't care and the entire team is nothing but SC designers. Funny, because I have personally seen a huge influx of new players in recent months. Oh, and I am having a great time playing my new beastlord with all my friends, messing around with the dungeon maker, and various other AoD features. I even buy some fluff stuff from SC when I see something I'd like to have, because I realize that $15 per month is outrageously cheap for the entertainment value I derive from EQ2, and I have no problems supporting SOE with a bit extra every once in a while.</p><p>There is new content coming out in the upcoming February game update, just like SOE has been saying for months. As Smokejumper has personally said, EQ2's dev team is one of the largest in the company, with several teams working concurrently on different projects with different release dates. Station Cash fluff items are just the easiest and quickest to produce, so they get released more quickly.</p><p>Come on, people. EQ2 is doing fine and will continue to run until SOE decides to shut down the servers. It's a very successful franchise, with a large, established fanbase with strong inertia. People have been forecasting the demise of EQ2 for years, and almost all of them cite the exact same reasons that have been expressed in this thread. You're wrong. I know you won't believe me regardless of the evidence, but you're wrong. Now please, continue dissecting your conception of SOE's business model, the reality of which you have absolutely no information about.</p></blockquote><p>Like I said in my eariler post, 80% of the new f2p people playing the game are here to do one thing. Play for free with out spending a dime. Everyone one of the f2p players in my guild refuses to spend a dime on the game. So the influx of new players does not mean $$$$ for Sony.</p><p>Its the old time players who have investment in their account who are spending most of the SC. When they grow tired of no new content, (and trust me they will) then lets see how much they are making off the SC.</p><p>Not only that most new players bounce f2p to f2p games. There is no loyalty like you would recieve from someone playing the game for the last 7 years. If Sony wants to replace their loyal fanbase with game jumpers then so be it, lets see where this game ends up a year from now!</p>

feldon30
01-16-2012, 04:58 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Another thing to note:</p><p>The marketplace team is not the same team that's making content for this game. Different people. You're yelling at the wrong folks. Marketplace guys do not do game content</p></blockquote><p>Please provide evidence to back up this claim.</p> <p><cite>thewarriorpoet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The modelers and graphic designers who make SC items are not the same software programmers and content writers who make traditional content</p></blockquote><p>Please provide evidence to back up this claim.</p>

Iad
01-16-2012, 05:11 PM
<p>It's clearly profitable right now, but how long it remains profitable when there are numerous annoying bugs and performance issues in the game, is a different question. Odus desperately needs it's quested items fixed. We should not receive items from a quest that are worse than items received 20-30 levels earlier. lol</p>

gourdon
01-16-2012, 05:17 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Contrary to what the title of this thread says, I think the station items WILL continue to be profitable for SOE.</p><p>I know many have mentioned about fixing bugs, new content in expansions, etc.  From a business perspective, those areas do not make money.  How many labor hours and developers does it take to create new content or debug existing bugs?  The costs of doing those things far exceeds the income SOE receives from regular monthly subscriptions.</p><p>Not to mention that bug fixing isn't going to bring in new players.  It "may" retain existing players, but definitely not new ones.  New expansions could bring in new players, but expansions to a new player who never played the game are a little intidimiating.  Especially since with an expansion the player has to buy at least some of the previous expansions, then play the game for a while until they CAN play in the expansion.</p><p>So, SOE finds the area where they can make the best profit with the least amount of operating costs - Station Cash Items.  It's instant gratification for someone playing the game, low overhead to develop, and brings in new players while entertaining at least half of existing players.</p></blockquote><p>Without a decent base game, there will be no players to sell fluff to.  Just as it is silly to expect all new content to be part of the base game, it is likewise to think that they can get away with only producing fluff.</p>

thait
01-16-2012, 05:33 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><blockquote>Its the old time players who have investment in their account who are spending most of the SC. When they grow tired of no new content, (and trust me they will) then lets see how much they are making off the SC.</blockquote></blockquote><p>Get tired of no new content?  And when do we run into this mythical no new content?  The other half of DOV is released in feb right on time, on the same yearly timeframe as has been used since the game launched.  Of course you'd know that if you actually wanted to as it's fairly common knowledge.</p><p>All the players have managed to get by for the last 7 years on a yearly release time and yet somehow now we're supposed to get tired of the game between those release times.</p>

Jovie
01-16-2012, 05:47 PM
<p><cite>dankaro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just wish there was something worthwhile to buy in the store.</p><p>Guild levels, guild hall amenity boosters, harvest rare packs (bring this back please), the ability to have more than one merc running at one time, etc....</p><p>I am not interested in fluff outside the guild halls.</p></blockquote><p>No Rares for sale on market.</p></blockquote><p>Why not? If we are going this route they might as well cut to the chase and sell game affecting items.</p><p>Look at Turbine, they just started selling stuff after so many years. SoE might as well do it and get it done with.</p><p>While you might hate it, the game will be healthier for it. More money coming in means more people on staff and more content being made. If it means your mmo is thriving and not going to be shut down, do it.</p><p>As an aside, i would accept the sc rares to be heirloom and anything they make be heirloom. This would prevent broker stability.</p>

Pixiewrath
01-16-2012, 05:48 PM
<p>I sometimes hate the SC shop...Most recently, the reason for this was when they introuced dungeon maker.They had about 12 crates or more full of decorations that dungeon builders could use to improve their dungeons. Most were meh but a few items in them were really nice. 200 tokens for them.After a week or two they suddenly decided to make those item buyable for around 300 SC. And they at the same "accidentally" raised the token cost to 900 tokens for the same amount of dungeon items.This forced people to either give up their plans on owning the decoration sets or buy them with SC.Felt like a huge spit in the face to me. Worst management I have ever seen and I still wait for them to drop back to 200 tokens. I am not touching any of it until it goes back to a sane amount. 900 tokens is like a full day of player dungeoning whereas before you could get them in 2-3 hours of player dungeoning.Imagine going to Mc Donalds to buy a burger. Standing in line for 20 mins to get it. The next day you come back and suddenly the line is 10 times bigger and they tell you that you can use the VIP line for 20$ and then you don't have to stay in the line anymore. Seriously think people would keep going to that restaurant?I bought some SC before, but with treatment like this I have no plans ever to deposit any SC into the game, especially not since we get 500 free each month now.</p>

Morrias
01-16-2012, 05:57 PM
<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Another thing to note:</p><p>The marketplace team is not the same team that's making content for this game. Different people. You're yelling at the wrong folks. Marketplace guys do not do game content</p></blockquote><p>Please provide evidence to back up this claim.</p> <p><cite>thewarriorpoet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The modelers and graphic designers who make SC items are not the same software programmers and content writers who make traditional content</p></blockquote><p>Please provide evidence to back up this claim.</p></blockquote><p>Why Feldon, don't you remember? Brenlo told us so!</p><p>Oh wait then SJ said Brenlo lied, but SJ said it too, and we all know SJ has never lied to us, ever!</p>

Adaeon
01-16-2012, 06:05 PM
<p>It does seem like EQ2, the game, has basically become little more than a front-end for the cash shop to me.  The gameplay is still basically the same and enjoyable, the older zones are still excellent if lacking in challenge, but I see a vast degradation in terms of quality in the more recent areas added.</p><p>Take that and add it to the very frequent cash shop additions, then contrast it with say the time between EoF and RoK's release.  It hardly seems like the same game. Which, I suppose, is the current production team's goal.</p><p>I don't question that the current model will, at least in the short term, yield a greater profit than the subscription fees of a 7 year old MMO. As for sustainability, I don't really think it is a priority to the production staff. There is apparently EQNext in development, with a cash shop focus from the beginning from everything that SoE's reps (Mr. Smedley, Smokejumper, et al.) have chosen to share.</p><p>It wouldn't really make much sense to have an active, well supported game that your next MMO offering would be competing directly against. I doubt they will close the servers or anything, but I see no reason to presume that active development would continue on EQ2 in anything other than the most profitable fashion. I don't doubt Mr. Smedley's planning ability. I am certain he learned his lesson on that subject with EQ2's uninspiring reception while EQ1 was still very much a going concern.</p><p>And we have, at this point, told them in no uncertain terms with our wallets that we are fine with that. Regardless of what we are saying on the boards, the money doesn't lie. I have bought things from the cash shop myself. Granted, I did so with SC purchased with in-game plat, but someone spent real money on the cards to begin with.</p><p>I realise that the practice of buying SC cards with plat is a sore spot for some, but for me it is the only saving grace of the current system. It gives me a means to get anything in game using purely in game currency. Why on Earth would I want to buy houses in Monopoly with real money when I have perfectly good play money sitting around?</p><p>TL:DR-Profitable? Sure. Worthwhile to the company? Absolutely. Worthless to the players? Yup.</p>

gourdon
01-16-2012, 06:22 PM
<p><cite>Adaeon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It does seem like EQ2, the game, has basically become little more than a front-end for the cash shop to me.  The gameplay is still basically the same and enjoyable, the older zones are still excellent if lacking in challenge, but I see a vast degradation in terms of quality in the more recent areas added.</p><p>Take that and add it to the very frequent cash shop additions, then contrast it with say the time between EoF and RoK's release.  It hardly seems like the same game. Which, I suppose, is the current production team's goal.</p><p>I don't question that the current model will, at least in the short term, yield a greater profit than the subscription fees of a 7 year old MMO. As for sustainability, I don't really think it is a priority to the production staff. There is apparently EQNext in development, with a cash shop focus from the beginning from everything that SoE's reps (Mr. Smedley, Smokejumper, et al.) have chosen to share.</p><p>It wouldn't really make much sense to have an active, well supported game that your next MMO offering would be competing directly against. I doubt they will close the servers or anything, but I see no reason to presume that active development would continue on EQ2 in anything other than the most profitable fashion. I don't doubt Mr. Smedley's planning ability. I am certain he learned his lesson on that subject with EQ2's uninspiring reception while EQ1 was still very much a going concern.</p><p>And we have, at this point, told them in no uncertain terms with our wallets that we are fine with that. Regardless of what we are saying on the boards, the money doesn't lie. I have bought things from the cash shop myself. Granted, I did so with SC purchased with in-game plat, but someone spent real money on the cards to begin with.</p><p>I realise that the practice of buying SC cards with plat is a sore spot for some, but for me it is the only saving grace of the current system. It gives me a means to get anything in game using purely in game currency. Why on Earth would I want to buy houses in Monopoly with real money when I have perfectly good play money sitting around?</p><p>TL<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />R-Profitable? Sure. Worthwhile to the company? Absolutely. Worthless to the players? Yup.</p></blockquote><p>EQNext is supposed to be more like DCUO, a dumbed-down console game, which won't be appealing to many EQ2 players.  As such, it isn't going to be a direct competitor.  Further, my guess is that the changes in going to more sand-box features in EQ2 is part of the plan to differentiate EQ2 and EQNext.</p>

Iad
01-16-2012, 07:05 PM
<p><cite>gourdon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>EQNext is supposed to be more like DCUO, a dumbed-down console game, which won't be appealing to many EQ2 players.  As such, it isn't going to be a direct competitor.  Further, my guess is that the changes in going to more sand-box features in EQ2 is part of the plan to differentiate EQ2 and EQNext.</p></blockquote><p>We know next to nothing about the next Everquest game. I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but I highly doubt it's accurate.</p>

Nolrog
01-16-2012, 07:06 PM
<p><cite>gourdon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>EQNext is supposed to be more like DCUO, a dumbed-down console game, which won't be appealing to many EQ2 players.  As such, it isn't going to be a direct competitor.  Further, my guess is that the changes in going to more sand-box features in EQ2 is part of the plan to differentiate EQ2 and EQNext.</blockquote><p>They've released so little information about EQ:N that no one can say with any accuracy what it's supposed to be or not.</p>

Raknid
01-16-2012, 07:19 PM
<p>"All I can say is we are a Sony company, and we are very, very proud of the work we've done on DC Universe Online, which is multi-platform; and we are very, very proud of the work we have done on The Agency, which is multi-platform."</p><p>Sure they haven't came right out and said it, but the writing is on the wall.</p><p>Can anyone name a single quality MMORPG (beyond FFXI) that has been PC and Console? You just have to give up too much if you go the console route...imho of course.</p><p>EQnext may "succeed" as a console game, but I dont think many PC players are going to be happy with it. When you throw in that it will undoubtedlt be heavily designed from a montized point of view, I don't hold much hope.</p>

agnott
01-16-2012, 08:22 PM
<p>You will not see another traditional MMO from SOE.</p><p>They will make a game that will try to get a piece of the huge social media market.</p>

Durgstyler
01-16-2012, 08:55 PM
<p>I am technically a new player and I'm really loving this game... atleast today, not so much at release.. I know my account is 7 yrs old but I didnt even make it into the 30s when it was released. Now I'm 7 years older hehe and I guess thats the reason I love this game right now. Plus all the new and great content that's been added.</p><p>Im in the 40s now, but as a wiz ( : are the servers overflowing with f2p classes?) I was silver and when i saw that I liked the game that much, i went gold and didnt wanna reroll.</p><p>300 SC that gives you entertainment value does not seem allot to me. I mean I can skip ordering a pizza, buy stuff for 2k SC and have some noodles instead. ez pz <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Moldylocks
01-16-2012, 09:16 PM
<p><cite>Iad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>gourdon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>EQNext is supposed to be more like DCUO, a dumbed-down console game, which won't be appealing to many EQ2 players.  As such, it isn't going to be a direct competitor.  Further, my guess is that the changes in going to more sand-box features in EQ2 is part of the plan to differentiate EQ2 and EQNext.</p></blockquote><p>We know next to nothing about the next Everquest game. <span style="color: #ff6600;">I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but I highly doubt it's accurate.</span></p></blockquote><p>Is straight from Rich Waters, the EQ Creative Director, an accurate enough source of information?</p><p style="text-align: left;">   <strong><em>"This opens the door to bringing more console gamers into the world of Norrath, along with our many loyal PC players.  Its also pushes us, as developers, to bring the level of user-friendliness, polish and fun required to succeed on a console."</em></strong></p><p style="text-align: center;"> </p><p>That's a direct quote from <a href="http://www.everquestnext.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/eq25_2.jpg" target="_blank">here</a>, 7th paragraph.</p>

Iad
01-16-2012, 10:18 PM
<p><cite>Moldylocks wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Is straight from Rich Waters, the EQ Creative Director, an accurate enough source of information?</p><p style="text-align: left;">   <strong><em>"This opens the door to bringing more console gamers into the world of Norrath, along with our many loyal PC players.  Its also pushes us, as developers, to bring the level of user-friendliness, polish and fun required to succeed on a console."</em></strong></p><p>That's a direct quote from <a href="http://www.everquestnext.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/eq25_2.jpg" target="_blank">here</a>, 7th paragraph.</p></blockquote><p>Whether or not it is on PS3 is not what I was responding to. I was responding to the dumbed down DCUO like comment. I'm not going to judge an unreleased game just because it is on both PS3 and PC, I will play it for myself and then decide from there.</p>

KnightOwl
01-16-2012, 10:55 PM
<p>Any attempt to generalize the type of player that is or isn't spending money on SC items and then press that idea as broadly representative of the playerbase based on anectdotal evidence is an exercise in abject futility.You don't know me, nor do you know what I choose to spend my money on, nor do you know my playstyle.Now multiply that concept times many thousands of other players. F2P player or subscriber, it doesn't matter.  F2P players aren't uniform in their decision processes and spending habits, just like paying players aren't.Unless you've got extensive datamined information, showing specific actions, spending patterns, and behaviorial trends among players, F2Pers and subscribers, then your claim that some large segment <em>n</em> of players of either category "is doing this" or "is not doing this" is substantively worthless.Also, what the game is worth is relative to the person playing it.  See above.So no one in your guild buys Station Cash items?  That's nice.  On its own, without significant supporting evidence that this would be true for many guilds on a widespread scale, it smacks of a paucity of relevance.I think it's safe to say that the marketplace is already profitable.  How this one segment (the marketplace) of the game's revenue stream fits into the greater whole, and what that means for the long-term sustainability of the game, based on who's playing it and what they're spending to do so, is another question entirely.</p>

Rijacki
01-16-2012, 11:34 PM
<p><cite>Moldylocks wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Iad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>gourdon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>EQNext is supposed to be more like DCUO, a dumbed-down console game, which won't be appealing to many EQ2 players.  As such, it isn't going to be a direct competitor.  Further, my guess is that the changes in going to more sand-box features in EQ2 is part of the plan to differentiate EQ2 and EQNext.</p></blockquote><p>We know next to nothing about the next Everquest game. <span style="color: #ff6600;">I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but I highly doubt it's accurate.</span></p></blockquote><p>Is straight from Rich Waters, the EQ Creative Director, an accurate enough source of information?</p><p style="text-align: left;">   <strong><em>"This opens the door to bringing more console gamers into the world of Norrath, along with our many loyal PC players.  Its also pushes us, as developers, to bring the level of user-friendliness, polish and fun required to succeed on a console."</em></strong></p><p>That's a direct quote from <a href="http://www.everquestnext.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/eq25_2.jpg" target="_blank">here</a>, 7th paragraph.</p></blockquote><p>You do realise that book was published 2 years ago -and- that Rich Waters no longer works for SOE.</p>

Moldylocks
01-17-2012, 01:52 AM
<p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Moldylocks wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Iad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>gourdon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>EQNext is supposed to be more like DCUO, a dumbed-down console game, which won't be appealing to many EQ2 players.  As such, it isn't going to be a direct competitor.  Further, my guess is that the changes in going to more sand-box features in EQ2 is part of the plan to differentiate EQ2 and EQNext.</p></blockquote><p>We know next to nothing about the next Everquest game. <span style="color: #ff6600;">I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but I highly doubt it's accurate.</span></p></blockquote><p>Is straight from Rich Waters, the EQ Creative Director, an accurate enough source of information?</p><p style="text-align: left;">   <strong><em>"This opens the door to bringing more console gamers into the world of Norrath, along with our many loyal PC players.  Its also pushes us, as developers, to bring the level of user-friendliness, polish and fun required to succeed on a console."</em></strong></p><p>That's a direct quote from <a href="http://www.everquestnext.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/eq25_2.jpg" target="_blank">here</a>, 7th paragraph.</p></blockquote><p>You do realise that book was published 2 years ago -and- that Rich Waters no longer works for SOE.</p></blockquote><p>That may be, but the information is still available on their website.  If there were changes to their proposed vision of EQ Next then deletions would have be made, and updated notifications would have been posted.  And, to be technical, its a year and a month old.</p><p>REGARDLESS, it is published information.  Currently we don't have much to go on, so what we do have, unless we hear otherwise, is assumed to be correct.</p>

Blissa2362
01-17-2012, 03:26 AM
<p><cite>thait wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><blockquote>Its the old time players who have investment in their account who are spending most of the SC. When they grow tired of no new content, (and trust me they will) then lets see how much they are making off the SC.</blockquote></blockquote><p>Get tired of no new content?  And when do we run into this mythical no new content?  The other half of DOV is released in feb right on time, on the same yearly timeframe as has been used since the game launched.  Of course you'd know that if you actually wanted to as it's fairly common knowledge.</p><p>All the players have managed to get by for the last 7 years on a yearly release time and yet somehow now we're supposed to get tired of the game between those release times.</p></blockquote><p>You are joking right? You can't possibaly think that we should bend over and kiss SOE's rear end because they are tossing us 1 zone? Look at the Kunark expansion and look at every one after it and they get smaller and worse with every new expansion. To the point they bent us over for $40 for a GUI update. If you call that keeping the player base satified then I have a bridge to no where that I want to sell you!</p>

Blissa2362
01-17-2012, 03:33 AM
<p>You guys can take this to the bank! EQ Next will most likly be f2p and offer a subscription and will be dumbed down to apeal to the masses. And from the start its going to be all about a cash shop and making as much SC off the game as they can.</p><p>Just look at what developers are doing to all games as a whole. They sell you a game for $XX and then proceed to sell you items they heald back from the game for even more $$$$. And the sad part is little Jhonnys parents hate to be bothered by little Jhonny so they hand him their credit card. And he proceeds to buy all the DLC that should have been included in the game. And the developers rinse and repeat on the next game.</p>

Felshades
01-17-2012, 04:33 AM
<p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>"All I can say is we are a Sony company, and we are very, very proud of the work we've done on DC Universe Online, which is multi-platform; and we are very, very proud of the work we have done on The Agency, which is multi-platform."</p><p>Sure they haven't came right out and said it, but the writing is on the wall.</p><p>Can anyone name a single quality MMORPG (beyond FFXI) that has been PC and Console? You just have to give up too much if you go the console route...imho of course.</p><p>EQnext may "succeed" as a console game, but I dont think many PC players are going to be happy with it. When you throw in that it will undoubtedlt be heavily designed from a montized point of view, I don't hold much hope.</p></blockquote><p>On top of that, I *really* don't want to play with the "console kiddies".</p><p>You know, that 8 year old screaming into his headset on XBL the instant you join a Black Ops multiplayer match?</p><p>/shun</p>

thait
01-17-2012, 05:11 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You are joking right? You can't possibaly think that we should bend over and kiss SOE's rear end because they are tossing us 1 zone? Look at the Kunark expansion and look at every one after it and they get smaller and worse with every new expansion. To the point they bent us over for $40 for a GUI update. If you call that keeping the player base satified then I have a bridge to no where that I want to sell you!</p></blockquote><p>The other half of DOV is supposed to be as large as the current DOV,  thats overlands zones and new instances and raids.  Current DOV is probably around the size, or larger, than SF and Moors put together, which will increase DOV to be probably around the size of Kunark or larger.  Of course this is common knowledge as well so at this point it's obvious your whining simply for the sake of whining.</p><p>They didnt force you to buy AoD, if you wanted it you could buy it and if not you didnt have to as it had nothing in it that is needed to play.  Your whining like a little baby about the fact that a non-necessary thing was put out and that they requested more money for it than you wanted to pay.</p>

agnott
01-17-2012, 09:19 AM
<p>Do the math folks.</p><p>Without breaking a sweat, the gaming demographic using PC, console & social media is 100 million people.</p><p>Just getting 1% of that is 1 million players. </p><p>SOE is well aware that there name is mud to the traditional PC MMO crowd. They are not going to spend millions on a new game that only targets a group the majority of which can't stand them.</p>

Iad
01-17-2012, 10:21 AM
<p><cite>Moldylocks wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That may be, but the information is still available on their website.  If there were changes to their proposed vision of EQ Next then deletions would have be made, and updated notifications would have been posted.  And, to be technical, its a year and a month old.</p><p>REGARDLESS, it is published information.  Currently we don't have much to go on, so what we do have, unless we hear otherwise, is assumed to be correct.</p></blockquote><p>That website is owned by some random dude, it is not SoE's official site. It's a blog. lol</p><p>And no, that article came from the 10th anniversary everquest book, which was released in 2009.</p>

Raknid
01-17-2012, 10:26 AM
<p>My quote was from Smed and was made a day or two over just one year ago. It will be console.</p><p><a href="http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-01-14-sony-hints-at-everquest-3-on-ps3">http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...rquest-3-on-ps3</a></p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">"We've publicly announced that we have another EverQuest game in development," SOE president John Smedley told us. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">Will it come to console? </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">"Can't comment on that," he said, and then added: "All I can say is we are a Sony company, and we are very, very proud of the work we've done on DC Universe Online, which is multi-platform; and we are very, very proud of the work we have done on The Agency, which is multi-platform." </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">In other words: read between the lines. </span></p>

Raknid
01-17-2012, 10:37 AM
<p><span><span style="color: #d2c5a9;"><p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><span style="color: #d2c5a9;"><blockquote><p><strong>...SOE has made it attractive enough that people will buy stuff off the market to make their dungeons better (higher scoring) so that they can earn those dungeon tokens.</strong></p><p>...</p><p> <strong>Monetized design starts with the idea of what can we create to get players to buy something else? It is essentially a psychological game that is played between the producer and the consumer, and its enjoyability is only a secondary factor; the prime factor is cash inflow.</strong></p></blockquote></span></span></span></p><p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Todays update notes:</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #ff6600;">ANNOUNCEMENTS</span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #ff6600;">Extra Dungeon Mark Days are here from 17 January until 30 January! Dungeon Maker dungeon players and creators will receive 25% MORE tokens during this time period. To create and see listings of available dungeons, select Dungeon Maker from your EQ2 Menu button in game. Visit the Dungeon Maker category in the Marketplace to spend your tokens on items to equip your play character, as well as items <strong>to enjoy and build more dungeons.</strong><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Prepare to get your dungeoneering on!</span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">It is so genious...and sad at the same time. Let alone has SOE moved to a montized design, they are now recruiting us to create monetized design content for them by incentivizing dungeons.</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Build more dungeons...so that people will buy more avatars...so that people will feel compelled to buy stuff to keep up with the newly created dungeons...so that more people will be drawn into creating dungeons and buy stuff to decorate with SC since they lack the DMs needed to do it with them.</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Fine to participate...but don't do it unwittingly, and understand what their business model entails.</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">People having fun in player made dungeons is SECONDARY to them making a profit off the dungeons... beyond needing a sub to play them. Otherwise, they would just GIVE us the tools needed to entertain players and keep them subbing. </span></span> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p></p>

Firecracker
01-17-2012, 11:21 AM
<blockquote><p><cite>Castegyre wrote:</cite></p><p>I think most people understand that there are different teams of people working on different parts of the game for the most part with MMOs, but the knee-jerk reaction is to see a trend and blame the developer as a whole for it. Sometimes it's not even the dev team who deserves the blame in part or as a whole, but the people with the money who are telling them what to do. Which I would suspect is the problem here, SOE is the one calling these shots more than the EQ2 staff themselves. That would explain a lot of the out of touch stupidity.</p></blockquote><p><span ><p>I have a feeling there isn't what you call a separate team working on SC items, when it's the same devs who fix SC items that fix the non SC items in game or we should be seeing different devs fixing these items if a totally separated team. I personally feel if so much time can be spent to push out new SC stuff so quickly then why are we on three month intervals for any new FREE content if they push new SC stuff weekly for wasn't there a reason behind changing it to three months so they could test stuff? why isn't SC cash being testing the same when it comes testing it and if it is then why are we getting new SC stuff weekly? my answer to that is they are spending more time on SC stuff then any FREE content or we would be getting Monthly Updates like we used too.</p><p>and the one dev I seen fix stuff is like the dev I've seen create items and even races but hardly takes any feedback in regards to the creations released and the stuff I've seen I really can't recall any players really asking for like a flying squirrel mount? We don't even has squirrels in game. The lore behind some of these mounts should be given along with the actual animal being in game if you ask me. Don’t get me wrong I like most of this devs creations but the Freeblood race was not on my favorites of his for majority us players had a different vision of vampire race then what was released.</p></span></p>

Griffildur
01-17-2012, 11:23 AM
<p><cite>Cinnimon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><blockquote><p><cite>Castegyre wrote:</cite></p><p>I think most people understand that there are different teams of people working on different parts of the game for the most part with MMOs, but the knee-jerk reaction is to see a trend and blame the developer as a whole for it. Sometimes it's not even the dev team who deserves the blame in part or as a whole, but the people with the money who are telling them what to do. Which I would suspect is the problem here, SOE is the one calling these shots more than the EQ2 staff themselves. That would explain a lot of the out of touch stupidity.</p></blockquote><p>I have a feeling there isn't what you call a separate team working on SC items, when it's the same devs who fix SC items that fix the non SC items in game or we should be seeing different devs fixing these items if a totally separated team. I personally feel if so much time can be spent to push out new SC stuff so quickly then why are we on three month intervals for any new FREE content if they push new SC stuff weekly for wasn't there a reason behind changing it to three months so they could test stuff? why isn't SC cash being testing the same when it comes testing it and if it is then why are we getting new SC stuff weekly? my answer to that is they are spending more time on SC stuff then any FREE content or we would be getting Monthly Updates like we used too.</p><p>and the one dev I seen fix stuff is like the dev I've seen create items and even races but hardly takes any feedback in regards to the creations released and the stuff I've seen I really can't recall any players really asking for like a flying squirrel mount? We don't even has squirrels in game. The lore behind some of these mounts should be given along with the actual animal being in game if you ask me. Don’t get me wrong I like most of this devs creations but the Freeblood race was not on my favorites of his for majority us players had a different vision of vampire race then what was released.</p></blockquote><p>Of course there isn't. It's probably one guy who makes the graphical design for everything and the dev team ( all of them 2 people ) who animate it and make the pretty stuff work, more or less.</p><p>Of course they don't have time to design any new content since they spend their time on fluff.</p>

Raknid
01-17-2012, 11:43 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cinnimon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>  </p><p>I have a feeling there isn't what you call a separate team working on SC items, when it's the same devs who fix SC items that fix the non SC items in game or we should be seeing different devs fixing these items if a totally separated team.</p></blockquote><p>Of course there isn't. It's probably one guy who makes the graphical design for everything and the dev team ( all of them 2 people ) who animate it and make the pretty stuff work, more or less.</p><p>Of course they don't have time to design any new content since they spend their time on fluff.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly. Otherwise we would see new faces answering questions about SC items instead of TTobey answering questions about the new wings.</p>

Griffildur
01-17-2012, 11:51 AM
<p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cinnimon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have a feeling there isn't what you call a separate team working on SC items, when it's the same devs who fix SC items that fix the non SC items in game or we should be seeing different devs fixing these items if a totally separated team.</p></blockquote><p>Of course there isn't. It's probably one guy who makes the graphical design for everything and the dev team ( all of them 2 people ) who animate it and make the pretty stuff work, more or less.</p><p>Of course they don't have time to design any new content since they spend their time on fluff.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly. Otherwise we would see new faces answering questions about SC items instead of TTobey answering questions about the new wings.</p></blockquote><p>Unfortunately some people on this forum live in lala land and can't see reality even if it comes and bites them in the face, hence why you see some pretty stupid replies sometimes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Moldylocks
01-17-2012, 11:55 AM
<p><cite>Iad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Moldylocks wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That may be, but the information is still available on their website.  If there were changes to their proposed vision of EQ Next then deletions would have be made, and updated notifications would have been posted.  And, to be technical, its a year and a month old.</p><p>REGARDLESS, it is published information.  Currently we don't have much to go on, so what we do have, unless we hear otherwise, is assumed to be correct.</p></blockquote><p>That website is owned by some random dude, it is not SoE's official site. It's a blog. lol</p><p>And no, that article came from the 10th anniversary everquest book, which was released in 2009.</p></blockquote><p>EQ2 Wire, Ten Ton Hammer, MMORPG.com, EQ2i, etc are all owned "by some dude" as well.  They all contain information as current as they are able to obtain.</p><p>If you have information contrary to what is being shown, then please link it.  All you are doing to shooting the messenger right now, so how effective is that?</p><p>Personally, I would *love* EQ Next to be an awesome, logical step in the Norratian world, bringing the old EQ roots into a modern world.  I've been playing EQ and EQ2 for over a decade, so my investment in a gaming world that I have come to call home is quite large.  HOWEVER, the only information I have seen so far is that EQ Next is going to be multi-platform and to do that there WILL have to be a fundamental change in how the game functions so some kid using a hand controller can play smoothly and easily.  This is what concerns me, and if it is so will absolutely drive me away. </p><p>So, as I said, bring on the information that nullifies what we know so far about EQ Next.  I really do want to see it.</p>

Laenai
01-17-2012, 12:12 PM
<p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cinnimon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have a feeling there isn't what you call a separate team working on SC items, when it's the same devs who fix SC items that fix the non SC items in game or we should be seeing different devs fixing these items if a totally separated team.</p></blockquote><p>Of course there isn't. It's probably one guy who makes the graphical design for everything and the dev team ( all of them 2 people ) who animate it and make the pretty stuff work, more or less.</p><p>Of course they don't have time to design any new content since they spend their time on fluff.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly. Otherwise we would see new faces answering questions about SC items instead of TTobey answering questions about the new wings.</p></blockquote><p>Ding ding ding!</p><p>And this is why we a) got such a (censored)tastic expansion, b) can't get any bugs fixed properly, c) don't see any new content, and d) get no reply to content/mechanics test feedback or bug reports.</p><p>They're too busy making pretty fluff. There's no one new to do SC items because there's no one new on the forums to answer questions, make stupid videos promoting pretty fluff items, or push hotfixes for pretty fluff items.</p><p>Meanwhile, beastlords still can't use yellow faction adornments although they can use corresponding red ones, mobs in HM zones are STILL double-casting AEs randomly, and pets across all pet classes are still pulling aggro by doing nothing and randomly stop attacking.</p>

Raffir
01-17-2012, 12:17 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>agnott wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The market stuff is just fluff. You don't need to buy a thing to enjoy the game fully -- well except for maybe the DOV expansion, but you don't even need that really until you hit your mid-80s. The rest of it are perks that a player can CHOOSE to either buy or ignore.</p></blockquote><p>Do you think anyone will come into the game and see people flying around and just say  "oh thats just fluff ..I don't need that"?</p></blockquote><p>Yes, but you need to be level 85 to fly .. and you CAN get one for free via a quest (assuming you've bought DOV -- which you kind of need for end-game stuff when you finally get to that level -- and by that time you'll have figured out whether this game is for you or not, and if buying DOV is worth it to you or not -- at least I would hope someone would! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />)</p><p>Still, you don't NEED to fly to enjoy the game, y'know?</p></blockquote><p>I can fly on several toons...have flyers in the stable.  But I use horses 99% of the time.  The flyers are, basically , taxis to get to a group or raid meeting point assuming I don't use a rally flag.  Or for plat runs to the Obelisk of Akzul..thats what I use them most for.</p><p>Raf</p>

agnott
01-17-2012, 12:23 PM
<p><cite>[email protected]Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cinnimon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have a feeling there isn't what you call a separate team working on SC items, when it's the same devs who fix SC items that fix the non SC items in game or we should be seeing different devs fixing these items if a totally separated team.</p></blockquote><p>Of course there isn't. It's probably one guy who makes the graphical design for everything and the dev team ( all of them 2 people ) who animate it and make the pretty stuff work, more or less.</p><p>Of course they don't have time to design any new content since they spend their time on fluff.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly. Otherwise we would see new faces answering questions about SC items instead of TTobey answering questions about the new wings.</p></blockquote><p>Unfortunately some people on this forum live in lala land and can't see reality even if it comes and bites them in the face, hence why you see some pretty stupid replies sometimes <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Are you guys suggesting that micro transactions in EQ2 are not the highest priority for this entire Dev team from John Smedley on down.?</p>

thewarriorpoet
01-17-2012, 12:25 PM
<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>thewarriorpoet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The modelers and graphic designers who make SC items are not the same software programmers and content writers who make traditional content</p></blockquote><p>Please provide evidence to back up this claim.</p></blockquote><p>Call it 4 years of college and 11 years in the software field. The skill sets overlap very little.</p>

Blissa2362
01-17-2012, 12:31 PM
<p><cite>thait wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You are joking right? You can't possibaly think that we should bend over and kiss SOE's rear end because they are tossing us 1 zone? Look at the Kunark expansion and look at every one after it and they get smaller and worse with every new expansion. To the point they bent us over for $40 for a GUI update. If you call that keeping the player base satified then I have a bridge to no where that I want to sell you!</p></blockquote><p>The other half of DOV is supposed to be as large as the current DOV,  thats overlands zones and new instances and raids.  Current DOV is probably around the size, or larger, than SF and Moors put together, which will increase DOV to be probably around the size of Kunark or larger.  Of course this is common knowledge as well so at this point it's obvious your whining simply for the sake of whining.</p><p>They didnt force you to buy AoD, if you wanted it you could buy it and if not you didnt have to as it had nothing in it that is needed to play.  Your whining like a little baby about the fact that a non-necessary thing was put out and that they requested more money for it than you wanted to pay.</p></blockquote><p>Dude put down the pipe, DOV is not going to be finished until 2013. Even if its the size of Kunark I am not going to kiss Sony's rear end for taking 3 years to build something that use to take a year. Trust me on this, as much as your trying to get people to bow down to Sony its not going to work. People are getting board because of lack of new content. Taking 3 years to finish a expansion is not going to be enough to keep everyone happy. People are going to leave, matter of fact people are leaving every day, And its only going to get worse over time, we need a real expansion. </p>

Iad
01-17-2012, 12:34 PM
<p><cite>Moldylocks wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Iad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Moldylocks wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That may be, but the information is still available on their website.  If there were changes to their proposed vision of EQ Next then deletions would have be made, and updated notifications would have been posted.  And, to be technical, its a year and a month old.</p><p>REGARDLESS, it is published information.  Currently we don't have much to go on, so what we do have, unless we hear otherwise, is assumed to be correct.</p></blockquote><p>That website is owned by some random dude, it is not SoE's official site. It's a blog. lol</p><p>And no, that article came from the 10th anniversary everquest book, which was released in 2009.</p></blockquote><p>EQ2 Wire, Ten Ton Hammer, MMORPG.com, EQ2i, etc are all owned "by some dude" as well.  They all contain information as current as they are able to obtain.</p><p>If you have information contrary to what is being shown, then please link it.  All you are doing to shooting the messenger right now, so how effective is that?</p><p>Personally, I would *love* EQ Next to be an awesome, logical step in the Norratian world, bringing the old EQ roots into a modern world.  I've been playing EQ and EQ2 for over a decade, so my investment in a gaming world that I have come to call home is quite large.  HOWEVER, the only information I have seen so far is that EQ Next is going to be multi-platform and to do that there WILL have to be a fundamental change in how the game functions so some kid using a hand controller can play smoothly and easily.  This is what concerns me, and if it is so will absolutely drive me away. </p><p>So, as I said, bring on the information that nullifies what we know so far about EQ Next.  I really do want to see it.</p></blockquote><p>I was simply correcting your misinformation, that site is not owned by SoE, it takes 2 seconds to know that. I know the article posted on the site is legit, I own the book it comes from. lol I never once said that the article is fake, or whatever you're implying. I do believe it will be on PS3. What I was saying is that just because it's closs-platform, it doesn't automatically mean it's dumbed down.</p>

agnott
01-17-2012, 12:43 PM
<p><cite>thewarriorpoet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>thewarriorpoet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The modelers and graphic designers who make SC items are not the same software programmers and content writers who make traditional content</p></blockquote><p>Please provide evidence to back up this claim.</p></blockquote><p>Call it 4 years of college and 11 years in the software field. The skill sets overlap very little.</p></blockquote><p>Unless you are using Cerebro   ...you are still just guessing.</p>

Raknid
01-17-2012, 12:43 PM
<p><cite>Iad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What I was saying is that just because it's closs-platform, it doesn't automatically mean it's dumbed down.</p></blockquote><p>Can you name a game so far that isn't compared to PC only?</p><p>Sure, they may re-invent the wheel and knock everyones socks off with their innovation...wait...what am I thinking...this is SOE we are talking about.</p>

Blissa2362
01-17-2012, 12:46 PM
<p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Iad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What I was saying is that just because it's closs-platform, it doesn't automatically mean it's dumbed down.</p></blockquote><p>Can you name a game so far that isn't compared to PC only?</p><p>Sure, they may re-invent the wheel and knock everyones socks off with their innovation...wait...what am I thinking...this is SOE we are talking about.</p></blockquote><p>I have to agree every single game that I have seen that is cross-platform has been dumbed down on ethier the console or PC and in some cases both.</p>

Raknid
01-17-2012, 04:46 PM
<p>Participating in a different thread got me to thinking about how SOE plans to, and probably already is, making bank.</p><p>Let's use the example of the Dungeon Maker.</p><p>You bought AoD, and spent $40, so now you want to get your money's worth out of it. The dungeon maker appeals to you somewhat so you decide to dabble there.</p><p>You see that you get all these absolutely basic tools, but if you want the neat decorations, or neat effects, you have to purchase them using either DM tokens or SC. You look at an item and see that it is 300 DM tokens or 200 SC. You think to yourself, man, I would have to spend 2-3 hours to get enough tokens for that item, or I can just pay $2.00 and get it.</p><p>Here is where the psychological play comes in.</p><p>First, they got their hooks into you with the AoD purchase, and in order to get your money's worth they are counting on an escalation of committment.</p><p>This ecscalation fo comittment leads to...</p><p>Second, they create a false dilemma regarding the DM Token or SC price...making you actually happy that they gave you the option of "saving" 2-3 hours of your time for the price of $2.00.</p><p>When in actuality, if you feel you need to purchase more things in order to get your money's worth, it would probably be a good idea to just step back, avoid the escalation of commitment, avoid the false dilemma (you don't have to choose one or the other...just don't choose at all), and cut your losses.</p>

Nrgy
01-17-2012, 06:57 PM
<p><img src="http://iwanticewater.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/nickel-and-dimed.jpg?w=640" width="385" height="519" /></p>

Moldylocks
01-18-2012, 12:21 AM
<p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Participating in a different thread got me to thinking about how SOE plans to, and probably already is, making bank.</p><p>Let's use the example of the Dungeon Maker.</p><p>You bought AoD, and spent $40, so now you want to get your money's worth out of it. The dungeon maker appeals to you somewhat so you decide to dabble there.</p><p>You see that you get all these absolutely basic tools, but if you want the neat decorations, or neat effects, you have to purchase them using either DM tokens or SC. You look at an item and see that it is 300 DM tokens or 200 SC. You think to yourself, man, I would have to spend 2-3 hours to get enough tokens for that item, or I can just pay $2.00 and get it.</p><p>Here is where the psychological play comes in.</p><p>First, they got their hooks into you with the AoD purchase, and in order to get your money's worth they are counting on an escalation of committment.</p><p>This ecscalation fo comittment leads to...</p><p>Second, they create a false dilemma regarding the DM Token or SC price...making you actually happy that they gave you the option of "saving" 2-3 hours of your time for the price of $2.00.</p><p>When in actuality, if you feel you need to purchase more things in order to get your money's worth, it would probably be a good idea to just step back, avoid the escalation of commitment, avoid the false dilemma (you don't have to choose one or the other...just don't choose at all), and cut your losses.</p></blockquote><p>^^ Exactly the reason I despise the Dungeon Decorator.  It is a tool explicitly designed to take you to the Station Store to get you to spend even more money.  You hit the nail on the head with your breakdown of what it is.</p>

The_Cheeseman
01-18-2012, 01:12 AM
<p>I don't understand the attitude that SOE wanting us to spend money on content that we enjoy using is inherently bad. Nobody is forcing you to spend money on Dungeon Maker stuff, it's merely an option for those who have money they're willing to spend. If a person feels that the entertainment value they derive from dungeon maker is worth the extra cash, they have the option to spend it. SOE is a business, they exist to produce entertainment that they can then sell to people. This is not evil, this is how business works. EQ2 hasn't raised its subscription cost over its entire 8 years of operation, even though the world economy has gone into the crapper in that time period. When it comes down to it, what's the big deal about them trying to make more money? They aren't taking anything away from us, everything that has always been included in our subscription cost is still there, and more is coming down the pipe.</p><p>If you are no longer enjoying EQ2, there is nothing stopping you from downgrading to silver for a bit until the new content is released. Nobody is twisting your arm to pay for things with which you have lost interest. What is so wrong with SOE trying to diversify their revenue streams?</p>

Pink_Poodle
01-18-2012, 01:15 AM
<p><cite>agnott wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You will not see another traditional MMO from SOE.</p></blockquote><p><img src="http://boards.38chan.net/a/src/1324946187573.jpg" /></p><p>Sad, but true.</p><p>Casual is the future.</p>

General_Info
01-18-2012, 03:46 AM
<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">I don't understand the attitude that SOE wanting us to spend money on content that we enjoy using is inherently bad. </span>Nobody is forcing you to spend money on Dungeon Maker stuff, it's merely an option for those who have money they're willing to spend. If a person feels that the entertainment value they derive from dungeon maker is worth the extra cash, they have the option to spend it. SOE is a business, they exist to produce entertainment that they can then sell to people. This is not evil, this is how business works. EQ2 hasn't raised its subscription cost over its entire 8 years of operation, even though the world economy has gone into the crapper in that time period. When it comes down to it, what's the big deal about them trying to make more money? They aren't taking anything away from us, everything that has always been included in our subscription cost is still there, and more is coming down the pipe.</p><p>If you are no longer enjoying EQ2, there is nothing stopping you from downgrading to silver for a bit until the new content is released. Nobody is twisting your arm to pay for things with which you have lost interest. What is so wrong with SOE trying to diversify their revenue streams?</p></blockquote><p>People pay $40 for the expansion so they can make their own dungeons and they are given a handful of tools and expect to grind and grind and grind through dungeons designed to be farmed so they can make a quick buck off people who dont have that much time to waste or dont want to waste the time.</p><p>They aggrivate their customers to make a quick buck, it may be good buisness sense to them however i disagree all you are doing is giving the company a bad reputation.</p><p>for every GOOD game only 3/10 will tell others about their experiances compared to 9/10 who have BAD experiances.</p><p>This is no different then say launching an expansion for a popular FPS which includes a SDK and map editor loading into the map editor and finding out you have to fork out more money for advanced options you should have had right off the bat.</p><p>so lets see you fork out $40 for the ability to create dungeons, reforging, beastlords and you are expected to grind for most tools that you should have from the start with a few dropping from difficult mobs in normal zones.</p><p>AoD in it's current state is not worth $40 or even $20 given you have to grind for tools or fork out more money in microtransactions for things you SHOULD have from buying AoD and are entitled to have in the same way someone who uses a map editor in a FPS has ALL the options available from the start without additional purchases.</p><p>again and again SOE released FLAWED storyteller type system where it is just a lame timesink without any real meaning.</p>

Deveryn
01-18-2012, 04:07 AM
<p>I love how people ignore and forget the double / triple cash events. You can save big on everything, but whatever... continue complaining about how things cost too much.</p>

Felshades
01-18-2012, 04:18 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I love how people ignore and forget the double / triple cash events. You can save big on everything, but whatever... continue complaining about how things cost too much.</p></blockquote><p>THANK YOU JEBUS SOMEONE THAT CAN SPELL TRIPLE PROPERLY!</p><p>I <3 you.</p>

General_Info
01-18-2012, 04:19 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I love how people ignore and forget the double / triple cash events. You can save big on everything, but whatever... continue complaining about how things cost too much.</p></blockquote><p>assume much? i havent forgotten but triple events are completely out of our control there could be one next week or 9 months away for all we know.</p><p>It's called value for money no where else can you expect to buy a digital product and be expected to fork out more money for features to become functional that were included with your inital purchase.</p><p>Have you ever bought a car from a dealership with a radio included which you have to fork out more money so you can listen to FM radio?</p><p>Have you ever bought a movie, watch it and then have to fork out more money to see the ending which is included on the disc?</p><p>SOE kept quiet about AoD pre-launch because they knew plenty of people wouldn't have bought it if they knew they had to waste time to enjoy the features that they purchased or pay SOE more money and thus encoaraging them to use underhanded and downright dirty tatics.</p>

Castegyre
01-18-2012, 05:48 AM
<p><cite>General_Info wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SOE kept quiet about AoD pre-launch because they knew plenty of people wouldn't have bought it if they knew they had to waste time to enjoy the features that they purchased or pay SOE more money and thus encoaraging them to use underhanded and downright dirty tatics.</p></blockquote><p>I completely agree with this. The ONLY reason I bought AoD at all pre-triple station cash was because my wife talked me into it. The CE was worth the house and the mount for all of my characters for the price. Other than that I would have never bought it at all.</p><p>I have to say, when CoH came out with their version of DM, what, 2 years ago? It was free. Patches for it and additional content for it were free at least up to until about 8 months or so ago. People still complained that the devs were trying to get the players to do their jobs for them and that it was a cheesy way to avoid adding real content, but at least it was free.</p>

Raknid
01-18-2012, 10:36 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I love how people ignore and forget the double / triple cash events. You can save big on everything, but whatever... continue complaining about how things cost too much.</p></blockquote><p>Falling right into their trap, just as with the other psychological manipulations.</p><p>"Dang, I was happy they let me spend $2.00 to save myself three hours, but with 2X SC I only have to spend $1. Now let's see what else they have I might want."</p><p>In the meantime you spend $3 of your money instead of the $2 you would have spent if the SC wouldn't have been doubled.</p><p>Stuff to create content for other players should be free...as we are doing their job for them (vis a vis keeping their customers entertained), and keeping oursleves entertained in the process.</p><p>Most mainstream games such as Half-Life, Quake, Unreal, NWN, SWG, etc...gave you all the tools for free instead of trying to bleed you for every penny by tweaking your mind.</p>

Raffir
01-18-2012, 01:54 PM
<p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I love how people ignore and forget the double / triple cash events. You can save big on everything, but whatever... continue complaining about how things cost too much.</p></blockquote><p>Falling right into their trap, just as with the other psychological manipulations.</p><p>"Dang, I was happy they let me spend $2.00 to save myself three hours, but with 2X SC I only have to spend $1. Now let's see what else they have I might want."</p><p>In the meantime you spend $3 of your money instead of the $2 you would have spent if the SC wouldn't have been doubled.</p><p>Stuff to create content for other players should be free...as we are doing their job for them (vis a vis keeping their customers entertained), and keeping oursleves entertained in the process.</p><p>Most mainstream games such as Half-Life, Quake, Unreal, NWN, SWG, etc...gave you all the tools for free instead of trying to bleed you for every penny by tweaking your mind.</p></blockquote><p>You're one of the most money fixated individuals on this board.  What you need to realize is that not everyone is on "your" budget.    There really is no way to compare your experience with any of us.</p><p>The value of (insert monetary unit here) is relative to your personal circumstances.</p><p>Once you define "entertainment"...how much do you / can you spend on it comfortably?  In those terms, it becomes a highly personal decision.  Not subject to anyone's analysis outside your decision to purchase....whatever.</p><p>Raf</p>

SOE-MOD-08
01-18-2012, 02:00 PM
This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500098&post_id=5704451" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50009...post_id=5704451</a> Nonconstructive

SOE-MOD-08
01-18-2012, 04:14 PM
This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500098&post_id=5704546" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50009...post_id=5704546</a> Nonconstructive

Shawnyve
01-18-2012, 05:01 PM
<p>7 pages of hilarity.</p><p>Here's a hint - if it weren't profitable, they would find something else that was.</p><p>As to the actual monetary discussion/derail the last few pages, out of context it's meaningless. If one person is earning $5000/week, a second is earning $500, and a third is unemployed, the amount of money they can "afford" to spend on things like entertainment will be drastically different. I'd hazard a guess though that most people (at least in the US) spend upwards of $20-30 a month on things that could be called "entertainment": movies, video rentals, fast food, gym memberships, etc...</p>

SOE-MOD-08
01-18-2012, 05:39 PM
This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500098&post_id=5704613" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50009...post_id=5704613</a> Nonconstructive

SOE-MOD-08
01-18-2012, 05:56 PM
This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500098&post_id=5704628" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50009...post_id=5704628</a> Nonconstructive

Deveryn
01-18-2012, 08:11 PM
<p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I love how people ignore and forget the double / triple cash events. You can save big on everything, but whatever... continue complaining about how things cost too much.</p></blockquote><p>Falling right into their trap, just as with the other psychological manipulations.</p><p>"Dang, I was happy they let me spend $2.00 to save myself three hours, but with 2X SC I only have to spend $1. Now let's see what else they have I might want."</p><p>In the meantime you spend $3 of your money instead of the $2 you would have spent if the SC wouldn't have been doubled.</p><p>Stuff to create content for other players should be free...as we are doing their job for them (vis a vis keeping their customers entertained), and keeping oursleves entertained in the process.</p><p>Most mainstream games such as Half-Life, Quake, Unreal, NWN, SWG, etc...gave you all the tools for free instead of trying to bleed you for every penny by tweaking your mind.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not falling into any trap. People are making their own trap by not reading up on anything and trying to educate themselves as to what they're buying. Half the people that bought AoD probably didn't even read further than what would be included. Now they're all spitting fire because they feel they got cheated.</p><p>You're trapping yourself right now because you're bringing FPS games into an MMO conversation. Nevermind the fact that those are old and more recent games have their map development done in-house and released as DLC, whether it's free or not.</p>

SOE-MOD-08
01-19-2012, 01:07 AM
<p>Stay on topic please.  Nonconstructive bickering will not be tolerated.  </p>

Avirodar
01-19-2012, 05:47 AM
<p>I remember back when the SC/FTP models were announced, the SOE fanbois and SOE apologists repeatedly expressed their comical belief that the increased revenue (from cash shop gouging) will result in increased work/development done on EQ2.I find myself here, today, wondering how much these ignorant people have enjoyed eating their words? They must be some fat little piggies by now.</p>

Griffildur
01-19-2012, 06:13 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I remember back when the SC/FTP models were announced, the SOE fanbois and SOE apologists repeatedly expressed their comical belief that the increased revenue (from cash shop gouging) will result in increased work/development done on EQ2.I find myself here, today, wondering how much these ignorant people have enjoyed eating their words? They must be some fat little piggies by now.</p></blockquote><p>You really think those ignorant people will ever admit their mistake ?</p><p>No, they're too busy explaining how we don't understand f2p aparently.</p>

CorpseGoddess
01-19-2012, 06:36 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I remember back when the SC/FTP models were announced, the SOE fanbois and SOE apologists repeatedly expressed their comical belief that the increased revenue (from cash shop gouging) will result in increased work/development done on EQ2.I find myself here, today, wondering how much these ignorant people have enjoyed eating their words? They must be some fat little piggies by now.</p></blockquote><p>You really think those ignorant people will ever admit their mistake ?</p><p>No, they're too busy explaining how we don't understand f2p aparently.</p></blockquote><p>Does *anything* make you happy?  I mean--this *is* a game, the last time I checked.  Games are played for enjoyment.  *I* enjoy myself when I'm playing it.</p><p>If you enjoy playing the game, play it.  If you don't, then don't and find another one to play.  But I don't think coming here, insulting other players and spewing your vitriol is constructive for anyboy.</p><p>And no, I'm not fangirling.  I just don't enjoy reading your cranky and pointless across-the-bow posts.</p><p>edit:  Perhaps what I'm trying to convey here is that if everybody cooled the name-calling, rhetoric and histrionics (which I will admit to being guilty of myself in the past), we might have a more constructive conversation.  But posts like yours above do nothing; they simply make you feel as though you're part of a coterie of players who are fighting against the establishment and anybody who happens to agree with it, regardless of what the conversation may be about at any given time.</p>

Griffildur
01-19-2012, 10:06 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Does *anything* make you happy?  I mean--this *is* a game, the last time I checked.  Games are played for enjoyment.  *I* enjoy myself when I'm playing it.</p><p>If you enjoy playing the game, play it.  If you don't, then don't and find another one to play.  But I don't think coming here, insulting other players and spewing your vitriol is constructive for anyboy.</p><p>And no, I'm not fangirling.  I just don't enjoy reading your cranky and pointless across-the-bow posts.</p><p>edit:  Perhaps what I'm trying to convey here is that if everybody cooled the name-calling, rhetoric and histrionics (which I will admit to being guilty of myself in the past), we might have a more constructive conversation.  But posts like yours above do nothing; they simply make you feel as though you're part of a coterie of players who are fighting against the establishment and anybody who happens to agree with it, regardless of what the conversation may be about at any given time.</p></blockquote><p>Follow your own advice then, if you don't enjoy reading my posts then don't read them.</p><p>Now stop trolling.</p>

Takiel
01-19-2012, 11:27 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I remember back when the SC/FTP models were announced, the SOE fanbois and SOE apologists repeatedly expressed their comical belief that the increased revenue (from cash shop gouging) will result in increased work/development done on EQ2.I find myself here, today, wondering how much these ignorant people have enjoyed eating their words? They must be some fat little piggies by now.</p></blockquote><p>You really think those ignorant people will ever admit their mistake ?</p><p>No, they're too busy explaining how we don't understand f2p aparently.</p></blockquote><p>For the sake of arguement then; in your business how long after releasing a new product or major change to your existing one does it take to call it a failure or success?</p><p>Now, that answered, if it is deemed successful how long does it take to advertise for new positions; get people in; and get them trained and working on said product?</p><p>If it wasn't successful, what do you do next?</p><p>It has been roughly a month since the F2P change; a month full of holidays I might add.   It will take longer then that to see if the higher numbers are a blip caused by interest and the holidays giving people more free time then usual; or if its indeed successful and you can start adding to your team to improve the product.</p><p>How long does it take you to hire a new employee, from deciding to post the position to having the new hire trained? Some busninesses have an easier time of this (unskilled labor generally; delivery boys, warehouse work, landscaping, mcJobs, etc) some businesses have a much harder time screening people and getting qualified applicants. (programmers, managers, engineers, pilots, etc) So keep that in mind too if your business happens to be one of the former types.</p><p>Oh and for the comment that EQ1 was their one success; they had to buy that from another company (989 studios at the time; renamed to Variant interactive) so I don't really count that.  Personally I'm finding EQ2 fun right now; and even though it seems that SoE makes decisions by taping ideas to a dart board; getting nice and drunk and throwing one dart at the board; HALF doing that idea then moving on; I'm one of those people hoping this F2P change does indeed improve EQ2's bottom line.  I want more devs.  I want them to finish stuff; to fix bugs; to add new content; and sure, even more SC junk as long as they keep is cosmetic. (I'd even prefer they remove research reducers, xp pots, and the like from SC but I doubt that will change)</p><p>TL;DR; I don't disagree that they need someone there to set priorities better. Nor am I saying SoE is perfect and makes great decisions.  I'm saying try to understand reality before you go rail that "why haven't they taken all this new money; hired a pile of programmers and fixed everything already" because statements like that make you look laughably ignorant of reality.</p>

GussJr
01-19-2012, 11:37 AM
<p><cite>SOE-MOD-08 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stay on topic please.  Nonconstructive bickering will not be tolerated.  </p></blockquote><p>Just close it down...its not going anywhere, anyhow.</p>

agnott
01-19-2012, 11:46 AM
<p>My fear has always been that SOE would not be able to control itself when it came to MT's.  Left unchecked .. mt's could really chip away at the fundamental drive that keeps most players playing. And that is the reward system that this game was founded on. </p><p>The second those wings went up for sale, it's clear that SOE can't control themselves with mt's. The focus for them is no longer to give you somthing to do or strive for ..but to just give you somthing to buy.</p><p>You continue to mess with peoples drive to play SOE. Do so are your own peril.</p>

Griffildur
01-19-2012, 12:03 PM
<p><cite>Takiel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>For the sake of arguement then; in your business how long after releasing a new product or major change to your existing one does it take to call it a failure or success?</p><p>Now, that answered, if it is deemed successful how long does it take to advertise for new positions; get people in; and get them trained and working on said product?</p><p>If it wasn't successful, what do you do next?</p><p>It has been roughly a month since the F2P change; a month full of holidays I might add.   It will take longer then that to see if the higher numbers are a blip caused by interest and the holidays giving people more free time then usual; or if its indeed successful and you can start adding to your team to improve the product.</p><p>How long does it take you to hire a new employee, from deciding to post the position to having the new hire trained? Some busninesses have an easier time of this (unskilled labor generally; delivery boys, warehouse work, landscaping, mcJobs, etc) some businesses have a much harder time screening people and getting qualified applicants. (programmers, managers, engineers, pilots, etc) So keep that in mind too if your business happens to be one of the former types.</p><p>Oh and for the comment that EQ1 was their one success; they had to buy that from another company (989 studios at the time; renamed to Variant interactive) so I don't really count that.  Personally I'm finding EQ2 fun right now; and even though it seems that SoE makes decisions by taping ideas to a dart board; getting nice and drunk and throwing one dart at the board; HALF doing that idea then moving on; I'm one of those people hoping this F2P change does indeed improve EQ2's bottom line.  I want more devs.  I want them to finish stuff; to fix bugs; to add new content; and sure, even more SC junk as long as they keep is cosmetic. (I'd even prefer they remove research reducers, xp pots, and the like from SC but I doubt that will change)</p><p>TL;DR; I don't disagree that they need someone there to set priorities better. Nor am I saying SoE is perfect and makes great decisions.  I'm saying try to understand reality before you go rail that "why haven't they taken all this new money; hired a pile of programmers and fixed everything already" because statements like that make you look laughably ignorant of reality.</p></blockquote><p>You know, I like your enthusiasm, I used to be in the same group you are, unfortunately several years spent here taught me a lot about SOE and I do not share your views at all. I am waiting to see what this ProSieben does for us, if anything.</p><p>I do like the game, it had massive potential, but they destroyed it with their inability to look beyond their noses. This move to f2p was exactly as i always believed, a last ditch at saving the game since everything else ( not that soe did much anyway ) failed.</p><p>They had a lot of players, alienated most of them and here we are now, with a few people left here and there and a f2p system which only a few like, and a few freeloaders who think they have the right to tell others to leave if they don't like it. Of course I am bitter seing the game I love driven into the ground.</p>

SOE-MOD-08
01-19-2012, 12:06 PM
This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500098&post_id=5704934" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50009...post_id=5704934</a> Trolling / Commenting on moderation.

Avirodar
01-19-2012, 12:14 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This move to f2p was exactly as i always believed, a last ditch at saving the game since everything else ( not that soe did much anyway ) failed.</p></blockquote><p>I am actually of the opinion that FTP was not brought in to "save EQ2", but it was brought in to help fund EQNext. It is tied in with what appears to be a big push by SOE to get a piece of the "cow clicker" pie, which companies like Zynga have proven to be more lucrative than traditional games.The love of the game, left the staff at SOE long ago.</p>

Griffildur
01-19-2012, 12:17 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This move to f2p was exactly as i always believed, a last ditch at saving the game since everything else ( not that soe did much anyway ) failed.</p></blockquote><p>I am actually of the opinion that FTP was not brought in to "save EQ2", but it was brought in to help fund EQNext. It is tied in with what appears to be a big push by SOE to get a piece of the "cow clicker" pie, which companies like Zynga have proven to be more lucrative than traditional games.The love of the game, left the staff at SOE long ago.</p></blockquote><p>I have mixed feelings about EQ Next at this point. There's too much guessing around.</p><p>Everywhere you look people are happy to say, oh Eqnext will have this and that and will do this and what.</p><p>I doubt it it will be what anyone expects.</p><p>Driving a current game into the ground just to fund a new one doesn't really strike me as a great business decision so i'll take your statement with a bit of salt for now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p>

Griffildur
01-19-2012, 12:18 PM
<p><cite>GussJr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Oh honey, do you need a cookie? This is just a game, after all. Cheer up and shake that sand out of your underoos! It's almsot Friday. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Unless you are a gorgeous 18 year old blonde, don't you dare call me honey ...</p>

GussJr
01-19-2012, 12:25 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>GussJr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Oh honey, do you need a cookie? This is just a game, after all. Cheer up and shake that sand out of your underoos! It's almsot Friday. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Unless you are a gorgeous 18 year old blonde, don't you dare call me honey ...</p></blockquote><p>Some people are cranky with 'flare' which is fun, but you're just plain cranky...that's just sad <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

Griffildur
01-19-2012, 12:34 PM
<p><cite>GussJr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>GussJr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Oh honey, do you need a cookie? This is just a game, after all. Cheer up and shake that sand out of your underoos! It's almsot Friday. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Unless you are a gorgeous 18 year old blonde, don't you dare call me honey ...</p></blockquote><p>Some people are cranky with 'flare' which is fun, but you're just plain cranky...that's just sad <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>From your response I take it you don't match my set of required properties, so I can understand your biterness ...</p>

Nrgy
01-19-2012, 12:36 PM
<p>/IB4L</p>

GussJr
01-19-2012, 12:49 PM
<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>/IB4L</p></blockquote><p>I know, right</p>

Raknid
01-19-2012, 12:52 PM
<p>If I am not mistaken, things like IB4L are considered trolling so I would request that the mods remove these, and any other offending posts, so as to be able to continue relevant discussion in this thread. Do not let the IB4L become a self fulfilling prophecy and thereofre stifle our expression.</p>

Griffildur
01-19-2012, 12:53 PM
<p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If I am not mistaken, things like IB4L are considered trolling so I would request that the mods remove these, and any other offending posts, so as to be able to continue relevant discussion in this thread. Do not let the IB4L become a self fulfilling prophecy and thereofre stifle our expression.</p></blockquote><p>You're right, let's get back to the discussion</p>

GussJr
01-19-2012, 12:55 PM
<p>edit</p>

Raknid
01-19-2012, 12:56 PM
<p>Even Zynga is finding it troublesome to maintain.</p><p><a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/39701/Analyst_Zynga_needs_significant_number_of_new_user s_to_stay_afloat.php">http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...stay_afloat.php</a></p>

Indabuff
01-19-2012, 01:17 PM
<p>Well I would have to amend the topic of this thread slightly. It is profitable now...but I have doubts about the longrun. This is a great game with a ton of content and thats what SOE seems to be betting on. Sure there really is not awhole lot out there that can compete with it. Until recently I saw myself here long term.</p><p>I am fairly new to game, just about 3 years now. I really have enjoyed it quite a bit. I am one that has bought a tonof fluff items, and really did not object at first to SC. Now it seems that is the focus of the game. What can we packageand sell. Tradeskills have become for lack of a better word unisex. We have capenters making jewerly. Classes havelost alot of their defining characteristics. Now I dont raid but with the amount of complaining I see about that contentthere is something wrong there. Heck they even had the decorating community boycotting SC over the block sets thatwere added, and that is one of the games most supportive communities.</p><p>No matter how you cut it or what side of the fence you may be on at the moment what is going on here is not good forthe game. People are unhappy, that reflects in the community in a big way. People play these games to relax and havesome fun but that seems to be harder and harder to do each day. Its sad really because those of us that really love thisgame are trying to hang in there but even I now find myself separating from it. It really is starting to feel like Free Realms for adults.</p><p>People are not happy, no matter what you believe that is just not fun to be around.</p>

Rijacki
01-19-2012, 01:19 PM
<p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Even Zynga is finding it troublesome to maintain.</p><p><a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/39701/Analyst_Zynga_needs_significant_number_of_new_user s_to_stay_afloat.php">http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...stay_afloat.php</a></p></blockquote><p>I doubt their cash shop is the reason Zynga is having the issues noted in that article.</p>

Indabuff
01-19-2012, 01:24 PM
<p>One more thing....at this point I will not be adding anymore SC to my account. I cant invest in a gamethat is going down a path that I dont think I can follow no matter how good it is.</p><p>I even started playing another game the last couple of days. Its not Everquest to be sure, but at leastthe stuff I am getting I am earning in the game and not having to buy it in the store.</p>

SOE-MOD-08
01-19-2012, 02:41 PM
<p>This thread has ran its course.  Thank you for your feedback.  </p>