Why would new players stay?

[Tatoma]

<p>I was minding my own business, doing what I do and I saw this player looking to form a new guild in channel 1-9.  Nothing unusual there except the apparanent lack of understanding on what it takes to make a guild.  Not a problem, couple other players pointed out what was needed in order for him to create a guild.  So after settling that, the original chatter asks for people to join so he can create his guild.  Sure enough, he has to repeat it over and over which, as we all know, draws trolls like flies to **** and soon he's being told to stop spamming, being insulted, degraded, called an idiot, etc, by several more well known and some unknown players. </p><p>Not saying he wasn't spamming his message, since he was, but is it seriously so hard for people to /ignore that instead they choose to be rude, inconsiderate, petty and flat out mean just to get their kicks?  I didn't see this as a person who wanted attention, someone who knew what they were doing, or even had any experience in mmo's.  I saw this as a brand new player, excited over this game, wanting to do things, wanting to meet other players, and getting his whole game experience shoved into the muck by trolls who lack the maturity to ignore if they can't be bothered to be helpful.</p><p>So instead of another new player in the community, now we have another player NOT in the community telling all his friends to not waste time playing this game because the trolls won again.  Hope that made them all feel better about thier lives.</p>

[Zehl_Ice-Fire]

<p>Yeah it isn't really cool of players to do that but we do have a lot more younger players than ever before, and add in the handful of older $%@!s. I don't care what the message is though, repeated spamming every 5 seconds is extremely annoying.</p><p>Wouldn't a new player who doesn't know how to play be better off joining an existing guild to learn things, maybe meet people outside the guild during that time, and later on if they still want to own a guild ask them to help him or her make a guild? I have no compassion for control freaks who want to make one more competing guild that is just like every other guild so that every guild has too few people and they all do poorly. I know some make their own guilds just for the storage and a personal guild hall even if they are in guilds, I have had one for years, but a new player won't be out of bag space like I am.</p>

[molinaro]

<p><cite>Zehl_Ice-Fire wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah it isn't really cool of players to do that but we do have a lot more younger players than ever before, and add in the handful of older $%@!s. I don't care what the message is though, repeated spamming every 5 seconds is extremely annoying.</p><p>Wouldn't a new player who doesn't know how to play be better off joining an existing guild to learn things, maybe meet people outside the guild during that time, and later on if they still want to own a guild ask them to help him or her make a guild? I have no compassion for control freaks who want to make one more competing guild that is just like every other guild so that every guild has too few people and they all do poorly. I know some make their own guilds just for the storage and a personal guild hall even if they are in guilds, I have had one for years, but a new player won't be out of bag space like I am.</p></blockquote><p>How can you be out of bag space?  You can always buy another char slot and use them as a storage mule.  Storage is unlimitted in this game.</p>

[redwoodtreesprite]

<p>This is what I have encountered time and time again in this game and in LOTRO when trying to help new players who are trying to start a guild/kinship.  I try to help them first with a recruiting message that says something about his/her guild.  Then on things to do to constructively get people to join.</p><p>And with only a couple exceptions, all I get is pleads for me to join, as I would be made an officer.  This when I always start the attempt to help with the info that I am in a guild already.</p><p>Please note that I do not do this often, only when the person trying to recruit seems to be getting frustrated in their recruiting messages.  Or when they start following me around and pleading with me to join their guild.</p>

[DrkVsr]

<p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #993300; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">How does having another guild compete with any other?</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #993300; font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Ah have 2 solo guilds (on different servers) because of mah playstyle, ah didn't want to just be another faceless character in the roster who only logs in for the holiday events (the first guild ah kinda inherited when the founder stopped logging in and everyone else just left the guild, the other guild ah started as a solo guild for the shared bank {this was back in 06, long before GH} and because ah wanted to know that what ever mah guild achieved was through mah hard work {and the work of anyone else ah managed to get to help me with various quests} even if it takes 8 years to get to lvl 20 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</span></p>

[retro_guy]

<p>I wouldn't worry too much.</p><p>For every snarky reply in 1-9, I'd expect there was a helpful /tell sent.</p><p>I usually don't reply in 1-9 unless it's a very general question e.g. Has Frostfell ended? But I often have quite long coversations in /tell and help out newbies, I expect I'm not the only one who "silently" helps out.</p>

[feldon30]

<p>Should brand new players who have no clue about the game really be forming guilds? Next thing you know they're spamming everyone, offering plat, offering to make everyone an officer, etc. It's just a nuisance. I know someone else rolling a guild doesn't affect me, but I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of quest required before you can form a guild just to weed out the complete noobs.</p>

[Zorastiz]

<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Should brand new players who have no clue about the game really be forming guilds? Next thing you know they're spamming everyone, offering plat, offering to make everyone an officer, etc. It's just a nuisance. I know someone else rolling a guild doesn't affect me, but I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of quest required before you can form a guild just to weed out the complete noobs.</p></blockquote><p>Seriously?</p><p>What were you never a noob?</p>

[Mystfit]

<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Should brand new players who have no clue about the game really be forming guilds? Next thing you know they're spamming everyone, offering plat, offering to make everyone an officer, etc. It's just a nuisance. I know someone else rolling a guild doesn't affect me, but I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of quest required before you can form a guild just to weed out the complete noobs.</p></blockquote><p>Isn't there a quest to form a guild? Perhps there wouldn't be a million guilds, except that SOE kinda encourages it by dangling a quest in their reach <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Perhaps they oculd change the quest to join or create a guild....</p>

[Gaealiege]

<p>I was a noob back in the 90s.  Does that count?</p><p>On a serious note though, if you're 100% new to the game, what could you possibly gain by forming a guild?</p><p>The uninformed, ignorant new leader is going to have zero idea what to do with content, how to manage guild officers, handle issues that arise with other members, etc.</p><p>It's like having a child create a business.  What the hell is he going to do with it?</p>

[CoLD MeTaL]

<p><cite>Tatoma wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was minding my own business, doing what I do and I saw this player looking to form a new guild in channel 1-9.  Nothing unusual there except the apparanent lack of understanding on what it takes to make a guild.  Not a problem, couple other players pointed out what was needed in order for him to create a guild.  So after settling that, the original chatter asks for people to join so he can create his guild.  Sure enough, he has to repeat it over and over which, as we all know, draws trolls like flies to **** and soon he's being told to stop spamming, being insulted, degraded, called an idiot, etc, by several more well known and some unknown players. </p><p>Not saying he wasn't spamming his message, since he was, but is it seriously so hard for people to /ignore that instead they choose to be rude, inconsiderate, petty and flat out mean just to get their kicks?  I didn't see this as a person who wanted attention, someone who knew what they were doing, or even had any experience in mmo's.  I saw this as a brand new player, excited over this game, wanting to do things, wanting to meet other players, and getting his whole game experience shoved into the muck by trolls who lack the maturity to ignore if they can't be bothered to be helpful.</p><p>So instead of another new player in the community, now we have another player NOT in the community telling all his friends to not waste time playing this game because the trolls won again.  Hope that made them all feel better about thier lives.</p></blockquote><p>$OE has always catered to that type of player (the ---hat elitist), they must somehow feel that it is the way to build this game.</p>

[Indabuff]

<p>Why does it matter so much as to why that new player wanted to start a guild? Maybe its something he wantedto do. Maybe this is a game and thats what people do, they do the things they want to do.</p><p>Come on RL is full enough of should do's and have to's, can we just let people enjoy their game the way they seefit without judging them for it. Just because you may not agree does not mean that its the wrong way to do it.As for the one that says he/she sends helpful tells to those in need, cudos to you. This is the attitude that will helpthis game.</p>

[Gaealiege]

<p>I help new players too.  I clear the content they will never see so that links can be generated for their viewing pleasure.  Isn't that considerate?</p>

[Banedon_Toran]

While I wouldn't condone trolling of new players who want to form a guild, I do often find myself really tempted to ask... WHY It requires six people to create a guild, so I would reasonably say that if you don't already have at least a couple of people willing to help you and stick with the guild -before- shouting out in 1-9 then you might want to wait. All too often I see people spamming that they need help to create a guild, even offering coin to those willing to help, then once they have their shiny new guild of just themselves (the other five people having taken the money and run) they start spamming that they are recruiting members often offering officerships to the first people to apply. If you ask them what the aims of their guild is, or what makes them different from any other guild they don't have a clue. That said I'm often the person who sends a few quiet tells to find out what the guild will be called and whether the 'leader' has a plan, sometimes this has actually resulted in me cranking up the PC and turning up with a four-fold of unguilded mule-alts to help out, but generally I am very sceptical of people who just want to start a guild for the sake of it, and expect people to suddenly want to follow in their (unsure) footsteps.

[Starbuck1771]

<p><cite>Tatoma wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was minding my own business, doing what I do and I saw this player looking to form a new guild in channel 1-9.  Nothing unusual there except the apparanent lack of understanding on what it takes to make a guild.  Not a problem, couple other players pointed out what was needed in order for him to create a guild.  So after settling that, the original chatter asks for people to join so he can create his guild.  Sure enough, he has to repeat it over and over which, as we all know, draws trolls like flies to **** and soon he's being told to stop spamming, being insulted, degraded, called an idiot, etc, by several more well known and some unknown players. </p><p>Not saying he wasn't spamming his message, since he was, but is it seriously so hard for people to /ignore that instead they choose to be rude, inconsiderate, petty and flat out mean just to get their kicks?  I didn't see this as a person who wanted attention, someone who knew what they were doing, or even had any experience in mmo's.  I saw this as a brand new player, excited over this game, wanting to do things, wanting to meet other players, and getting his whole game experience shoved into the muck by trolls who lack the maturity to ignore if they can't be bothered to be helpful.</p><p>So instead of another new player in the community, now we have another player NOT in the community telling all his friends to not waste time playing this game because the trolls won again.  Hope that made them all feel better about thier lives.</p></blockquote><p>instead of whinning and trolling the guy you could just simplely turn off 1-9 chat.</p>

[Zeedlana]

<p>Was going to say ... I'm a new player, and I learned after the first couple of days to just turn off that particular chat channel, regardless of what I might be "missing". Though it seems like 1-9 is about the only one people tend to use. /sigh</p><p>Oh well, I'll just bum around on my own in the quiet of unused chat. I'm used to doing such.</p>

[apwyork]

<p>Pretty sure this thread wasn't about the forming of guilds so much as the way older players treat new players.  When new players ask for help, there's some who help and plenty of others who should just keep their rude comments to themselves.</p>

[Gaealiege]

<p>You're hopelessly naive to assume any such thing will ever happen.  The player should find an arena in which he isn't harassed.  Go to the forums or join another guild and ask them questions.  Part of the game world of any MMO are trolls. </p><p>Public channels will always have them unless they begin policing channels like Kiara once did here.  At that point you can expect over half the population to drop the game due to warnings for perceived rather than real violations of rules.</p>

[Zorastiz]

<p><cite>Gaealiege@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was a noob back in the 90s.  Does that count?</p><p>On a serious note though, if you're 100% new to the game, what could you possibly gain by forming a guild?</p><p>The uninformed, ignorant new leader is going to have zero idea what to do with content, how to manage guild officers, handle issues that arise with other members, etc.</p><p>It's like having a child create a business.  What the hell is he going to do with it?</p></blockquote><p>What I want to know is why is it any of yours or anyone elses business if some new guy or girl forms a guild, seriously, what the hades is wrong with you people?</p>

[Zeedlana]

<p>I didn't see many people asking for help in 1-9 my first few days before it got annoying as hell and I turned it off. I saw a bunch of people that might have known each other acting like idiots and being vulgar and insulting. They didn't put me off the game, but I'm not going to waste all my time putting idiots on ignore when it's easier to just turn chat off.</p><p>Now, I have a dirty mouth and a mind in the gutter half the time, but I don't whip it out in public until people know me, and then generally only with guild mates, friends and family (thankfully my mother doesn't play online games...). Maybe it's because I had a mean mommy growing up who expected me to behave a certain way when we were amongst other people.</p><p>Or maybe the "loudest" people in 1-9 are like the stupid idiot high school students that leave their trash in the parking lot to blow into my yard, or sit there honking their horns for 10 minutes as some form of mating ritual or whatever they think they're doing while in the middle of a residential zone early in the morning, or speed through the alley right next to my house with their thump-thump crap music (not once have I heard them play something worth listening to) that shakes my windows ... I think I might have gone off too long on the wrong rant now.</p><p>If a noob leaves the game because someone was a jerk to them in chat one afternoon, they probably shouldn't be playing games that involve dealing with other people. Constant harassment that follows you into tells or other chat channels is one thing, but a couple rude comments from 1-9 bottom-dwellers shouldn't be taken all that seriously.</p><p>and wow, I have to edit because I used a censored word that's not a "cuss word".... I forgot how lovely SOE forums were...</p>

[Tyrsei]

<p>Ask yourself which is really worse,the new player spamming for people to join his/her guild or a vet that doesn't want to be bothered but still has 1-9 turned on?</p><p>I'm going with the latter.</p>

[Laenai]

<p>If y'all REALLY wanted to be a good citizen and help the little feller out, you'd tell him to sprint out of 1-9 and never look back.</p>

[DrkVsr]

<p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #993300; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Ah've seen plenty of 'established' guilds run by so-called 'vets' who spam looking for new members</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #993300; font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Have to agree that it is the attitude of a lot (yes, a <em>lot</em>) of the 'vets' towards new players that is very putting-off: people ask for information about a quest or tips and they get abuse and/or condescension hurled back at them (that's if they get any responses at all)</span></p>

[Crillus]

<p><cite>Starbuck1771 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tatoma wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was minding my own business, doing what I do and I saw this player looking to form a new guild in channel 1-9.  Nothing unusual there except the apparanent lack of understanding on what it takes to make a guild.  Not a problem, couple other players pointed out what was needed in order for him to create a guild.  So after settling that, the original chatter asks for people to join so he can create his guild.  Sure enough, he has to repeat it over and over which, as we all know, draws trolls like flies to **** and soon he's being told to stop spamming, being insulted, degraded, called an idiot, etc, by several more well known and some unknown players. </p><p>Not saying he wasn't spamming his message, since he was, but is it seriously so hard for people to /ignore that instead they choose to be rude, inconsiderate, petty and flat out mean just to get their kicks?  I didn't see this as a person who wanted attention, someone who knew what they were doing, or even had any experience in mmo's.  I saw this as a brand new player, excited over this game, wanting to do things, wanting to meet other players, and getting his whole game experience shoved into the muck by trolls who lack the maturity to ignore if they can't be bothered to be helpful.</p><p>So instead of another new player in the community, now we have another player NOT in the community telling all his friends to not waste time playing this game because the trolls won again.  Hope that made them all feel better about thier lives.</p></blockquote><p>instead of whinning and trolling the guy you could just simplely turn off 1-9 chat.</p></blockquote><p>^^ That.</p><p>Is the first thing I do when making a new toon - Leave 1-9 and Auction - I stay in the 'newbie' channel, but that's usually real legit questions, not idiotic spam.</p>