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View Full Version : What is "Tier"?


oafgirl
01-02-2012, 07:05 PM
<p>Besides the German word for "animal"...</p><p>I played EQ before coming to EQ2 (more for roleplaying than raiding, but I'm slowly getting my main to the appropriate level for that, too).  I like decorating, so I thought I'd try my hand at a Dungeon.  I've got my first one well in hand as far as looks and placing mobs in a couple of rooms.</p><p>I have a lot of Crocodile (Bruisers) -- I was hunting a lot in Sinking Sands, what can I say? -- and I have made a swampy space for them in the lowest room of the Lair of Scale 4 layout.  Very atmospheric, with fog generators, fireflies, etc. -- but I don't want to have them just overwhelm adventurers by sheer number.  So I've placed them in groups separated by a certain distance and obstacles -- and hidden one or two in corners by themselves -- but I thought I ought to make them a little weaker than "average" in a fight.</p><p>One of the Effects is to Decrease Level.  That I understand.  But what is Decrease (or Increase, which I might want to do elsewhere) Tier?  I've looked at several sites but I guess everyone assumes that we all know what Tier means.  I'll confess that I don't -- or maybe it's just something I've never associated with that word.</p><p>Either way, if someone could explain it here, I'd appreciate it greatly.</p>

Mohee
01-02-2012, 07:51 PM
<p>Basically in EQ2, tier means level. Thats the most simple way I could put it.</p><p>Example: There are level 90 mobs in the Setinels Fate expansion, there are level 90 mobs in Velious. The Velious mobs are much tougher than the Setinels Fate mobs. Its safe to say that SF Mobs would be Tier 1, and Velious mobs Tier 2.</p><p>Another example: A level 90 peice of gear from the Public Quests in velious, people consider T1 (Tier 1). The armor you can obtain from Thurgadin is considered T2 because its the next step up from PQ. Ry'gorr gear many consider as T3, and so on.</p><p>In terms of the dungeons maker, and increasing the Tier of a mob you place, my best guess is that it makes that mob in particular more difficult that your standard Dungeon Maker mob.</p><p>Is this what you were looking for? If not I apologize ahead of time for not being as clear <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p>

msgnomer
01-02-2012, 08:10 PM
<p>I'm glad someone asked this question.  You can get thingies to both increase and decrease level, and increase and decrease tier.  That tells me they do different things, but what exactly?  </p><p>How would a mob you raise one tier differ from the mob if you raise it one level?</p>

Judist
01-02-2012, 08:18 PM
<p>Maybe it modifies solos to heroics?Solo to ^ to ^^ to ^^^ is my guess.</p>

msgnomer
01-02-2012, 08:23 PM
<p><cite>Judist wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe it modifies solos to heroics?Solo to ^ to ^^ to ^^^ is my guess.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, that's what I assume, but I've never been sure what the difference is between going up a tier and going up a level.</p><p>I'm assuming it means the same thing in the DM as it does in the game at large, but to be honest, I've never been all that sure of what the difference was in the game at large either.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" /></p>

Calabeth
01-03-2012, 06:48 PM
<p>Generally it would mean increased HP and skills such as the abilities they use being upgraded to their stats having a small boost. Now how much this is changing per tier is unknown. Another thing that seems to really improve the mobs without improving tier is the effects you can add to single and room.</p>

msgnomer
01-03-2012, 07:22 PM
<p><cite>Calabeth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Generally it would mean increased HP and skills such as the abilities they use being upgraded to their stats having a small boost. Now how much this is changing per tier is unknown. Another thing that seems to really improve the mobs without improving tier is the effects you can add to single and room.</p></blockquote><p>So maybe tougher if you go up in tier, but more abilities if you go up in level?</p><p>I like the tier/level items as you can apply them to individual mobs.  But I'm just not clear what the difference between the two might be.  If I'm going to save up my dungeon marks to buy something, I'd like to have an idea what I'm buying! </p>

msgnomer
01-05-2012, 10:58 PM
<p>Seriously, I'd really like to know how reducing a mob by a tier differs from reducing them by a level.  You can purchase both types in several gradations each. </p>

Zehl_Ice-Fire
01-05-2012, 11:14 PM
<p>In EQ2 a Tier is a whole 10 level set, 1 to 9 is Tier 1 aka T1, 10-19 is Tier 2 aka T2 and so on. I don't know if the tier reduction means an actual 10 levels or to the nearest x9 down. (I don't have AoD)</p><p><cite>msgnomer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Seriously, I'd really like to know how reducing a mob by a tier differs from reducing them by a level.  You can purchase both types in several gradations each.</p></blockquote>

Judist
01-05-2012, 11:39 PM
<p><cite>msgnomer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Seriously, I'd really like to know how reducing a mob by a tier differs from reducing them by a level.  You can purchase both types in several gradations each. </p></blockquote><p>Unless someone buys/tries it my guess is still that it effects a mobs heroic status (^ or ^^ or ^^^).</p><p>Doing a dungeon with a group "supposedly" (I've only done em solo) scales all mobs up in ^ difficulty. So maybe the reducer will allow you to scale mobs down so a "group" would face easier mobs? Example: if a full group gets ^^^ then maybe you can reduce them to ^.</p>

Armawk
01-06-2012, 12:40 AM
<p>It is a strange description. Taken literally it sounds like it means reduce by 10 or 11 levels.. hard to see why you would want to do that though, unless it is to make things non aggro for rp-story reasons? Tier gets used all over the place however so its hardly clear.</p><p>I suspect it means adding or subtracting up/down arrows as suggested by others though.</p>

retro_guy
01-06-2012, 05:32 AM
<p><cite>msgnomer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Seriously, I'd really like to know how reducing a mob by a tier differs from reducing them by a level.  You can purchase both types in several gradations each. </p></blockquote><p>I would expect that reducing a mob "by level" reduces it 1 level, and reducing it "by tier" reduces it 10 levels, can anyone confirm this?</p><p>Since we go into the dungeon at level 50, does it make sense that a "tier" drops 10 levels? Maybe it just drops the mob back into the previous tier, e.g. to level 45?</p>

msgnomer
01-06-2012, 06:04 AM
<p>Oh dear, I wasn't clear....thanks for trying to answer but let me rephrase my question.  What is the difference between going up or down in  arrows (tier) verses going up or down in levels?  You can purchase the means to do either.  I can buy all variations and test them eventually, but I was really wondering if someone already knew. </p><p>I don't even know the answer to that in the general game.  Both up and down arrows and levels represent harder or easier mobs, but is there some difference between them? </p><p>Actually, I don't think it can even be tested at the moment as I'm fairly sure at least the arrows are bugged at the moment.  I've been in other players' dungeons and a three up arrow mob turns into a 1 up arrow mob after you fight it and then you have to fight it again and then again as a double down arrow mob.  Eventually it totally dies and you get the double down arrow amount of points for the total fight, less than half the standard value.   I've also fought 3 levels up mobs that seem much much easier than the normal mobs.  So testing may be misleading at the moment. </p>

Lemilla
01-06-2012, 06:43 AM
<p><cite>msgnomer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh dear, I wasn't clear....thanks for trying to answer but let me rephrase my question.  What is the difference between going up or down in  arrows (tier) verses going up or down in levels?</p></blockquote><p>As far as the general game goes, the difference is this:</p><p>When a monster goes up a level, its health pool and outgoing damage increase a little bit. The increased level difference between a player and monster will decrease the hitrate of the player and increase the hit rate of the monster (ignoring the whole contested vs uncontested avoidance here).</p><p>When a monster goes up a tier (from solo to ^, ^^, ^^^, x2, x3, x4), it's outgoing damage increases slightly, but its health pool increases a lot. It will also gain some avoidance, but the effect of that is a lot smaller than from going up a level.</p><p>Basically, going up a level makes is scale in a way it's relatively as strong as a player who also gained a level.Going up a tier makes it scale in a way that it's relatively a strong as double (slightly less, but ok) the amount of players attacking it.</p><p>There are more things affecting monster strenght than just level and tier though. That's why mobs in DoV are a lot stronger than those in SF, even though they are the same level and tier. But that shouldn't affect the dungeon maker.</p>

msgnomer
01-06-2012, 12:11 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>... Basically, going up a level makes is scale in a way it's relatively as strong as a player who also gained a level.Going up a tier makes it scale in a way that it's relatively a strong as double (slightly less, but ok) the amount of players attacking it.</p><p>There are more things affecting monster strenght than just level and tier though. That's why mobs in DoV are a lot stronger than those in SF, even though they are the same level and tier. But that shouldn't affect the dungeon maker.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks Sylvellior.  I think I'll assume that's as good an explanation as exists.  It sounds like going one up arrow is, in theory, making the mob much harder than going up a level.  However, since a player can't expect to fight and win against a mob double their level, I agree there's more going on. </p><p>Based on the intuition of years of combat, and these responses, I'll guess that something like the HP of the mob might double for an up-arrow, but their damage output does not or only increase a little.  For a level increase, their damage and HP increase proportionately, much like a players.</p><p>Guess I may have to buy one and see if it works how I like.  Since it will still take awhile for me to finish my first dungeon, I may have time to acquire a selection of those modifiers yet to test before publishing.</p>

Andemon
01-06-2012, 04:50 PM
<p>Warning: do not buy those.</p><p>Completely broken. I tested the tiers with a tiny two-mob dungeon. Without any modifiers, I got one token from running it.</p><p>After placing two Increase Tier (single) next to them, both mobs became 50^. But killing them netted less xp and no tokens, and both respawned(?!) as soon as they were killed. The replicas were worth no xp.</p><p>In other words, harder mobs...but worth far less xp and tokens. Even though the challenge rating is higher. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" /></p>