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Enever
01-01-2012, 06:21 AM
<p>Normally I don't post things like this. I doubt Anyone will even care, but when I spoke to a person today they gave some real good points towards how limiting the Free to Play is.</p><p>I brought it forward to get it off of my mind, and maybe, by some blessing of god SoE will take into consideration.</p><p>He's played the game for 2 hours, and got disgusted with the thigns He could not do. He could not wear what he quested for and lost all incentive to even loo kat EQ2 again.</p><p>My concern is that other Free to Play people wishing to try the game out are being chased away due to SoE severly limiting the Free to Play accounts.</p><p>The thign that he really was mad about was the inability to wear Legendary/Fabled gear. To me this is one Limitation that -must- go. Give the acounts access to these items so that the new players can give a taste for what the game has to offer.</p><p>The whole free-to-play concept in EQ2 is stupid and extremely limiting. For an example at what game does F2P best is Champions Online... they do it right.</p><p>Just please take into consideration, just atleast remove the gear limitations from Free to Play. it makes new players not want to play the game anymore.</p><p>Thanks...I needed to get that out of my mind, if this is the wrong forum for it please move it to a relevant one.</p>

Felshades
01-01-2012, 06:46 AM
<p>The only time it really would annoy me is in DoV, where there is *no* treasured gear. At all. And you can't really do much in Velious with SF treasured stuff.</p><p>But eh. My other account's silver atm. She's making do with Mastercrafted.. till I move her off that account. ><</p>

Jrral
01-01-2012, 06:47 AM
<p>If they remove the limitations, what reason would there be to get a subscription or buy the unlockers?</p><p>The math is simple: the bills need to be paid, and the game has to bring in enough money every month to cover those bills. If that doesn't happen, the game shuts down. So when you see free-to-play advertised, don't fool yourself into thinking that you'll be able to avoid paying for the game.</p><p>As for the gear, I don't see where you need legendary/fabled gear short of top-end group instances and raiding. By the time you've gotten to that point, you're playing the game consistently enough that the monthly subscription makes sense.</p>

Felshades
01-01-2012, 07:41 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they remove the limitations, what reason would there be to get a subscription or buy the unlockers?</p><p>The math is simple: the bills need to be paid, and the game has to bring in enough money every month to cover those bills. If that doesn't happen, the game shuts down. So when you see free-to-play advertised, don't fool yourself into thinking that you'll be able to avoid paying for the game.</p><p>As for the gear, I don't see where you need legendary/fabled gear short of top-end group instances and raiding. By the time you've gotten to that point, you're playing the game consistently enough that the monthly subscription makes sense.</p></blockquote><p>The problem I see with DoV is people on silver and free accounts have to buy the expansion... but then on their first quest, they can't wear their quest rewards.</p><p>Buying unlockers constantly on top of the price of the expansion would kind of irritate me personally. :/</p>

Elomort
01-01-2012, 08:01 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>the bills need to be paid</p></blockquote><p>Nothing more needs to be said.</p>

DrkVsr
01-01-2012, 08:17 AM
<p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #993300; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The problem is with people thinking 'F2P' stands for 'Free to Play', it doesn't, it stands for '<em>Fee</em> to <em>Pay</em>'</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #993300; font-family: Comic Sans MS;">The reason SOE is turning all it's games 'Fee to Pay' is because think it is 'Free to Play' end up paying more than those who paid a monthly rental</span></p>

gourdon
01-01-2012, 08:45 AM
<p><cite>Enever wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Normally I don't post things like this. I doubt Anyone will even care, but when I spoke to a person today they gave some real good points towards how limiting the Free to Play is.</p><p>I brought it forward to get it off of my mind, and maybe, by some blessing of god SoE will take into consideration.</p><p>He's played the game for 2 hours, and got disgusted with the thigns He could not do. He could not wear what he quested for and lost all incentive to even loo kat EQ2 again.</p><p>My concern is that other Free to Play people wishing to try the game out are being chased away due to SoE severly limiting the Free to Play accounts.</p><p>The thign that he really was mad about was the inability to wear Legendary/Fabled gear. To me this is one Limitation that -must- go. Give the acounts access to these items so that the new players can give a taste for what the game has to offer.</p><p>The whole free-to-play concept in EQ2 is stupid and extremely limiting. For an example at what game does F2P best is Champions Online... they do it right.</p><p>Just please take into consideration, just atleast remove the gear limitations from Free to Play. it makes new players not want to play the game anymore.</p><p>Thanks...I needed to get that out of my mind, if this is the wrong forum for it please move it to a relevant one.</p></blockquote><p>You can't be talking about a new player unless it was someone you were powerleveling and has got their hands on Legendary/Fabled already or they are a return player.  The limitations are very reasonable for a normal new player.  They are rough for a returning player, but there is little more that can be done that doesn't give the game away other than to provide free gold for a week or so every once in a while so former players with high end characters can have a trial every now and then.</p><p>As for Champions being superior, a game that sells substantive game affecting power tokens in their cash shop isn't doing free to play the right way.</p>

Felshades
01-01-2012, 09:29 AM
<p><cite>DrkVsr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; color: #993300;">The problem is with people thinking 'F2P' stands for 'Free to Play', it doesn't, it stands for '<em>Fee</em> to <em>Pay</em>'</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Comic Sans MS; color: #993300;">The reason SOE is turning all it's games 'Fee to Pay' is because think it is 'Free to Play' end up paying more than those who paid a monthly rental</span></p></blockquote><p>Welcome to why no new games are coming out that have a subscription basis.</p><p>New games are being developed with microtransactions as a main or sole payment plan in mind. Either you pay out the nose to buy and unlock stuff or you lame yourself.</p>

Katz
01-01-2012, 10:59 AM
<p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they remove the limitations, what reason would there be to get a subscription or buy the unlockers?</p><p>The math is simple: the bills need to be paid, and the game has to bring in enough money every month to cover those bills. If that doesn't happen, the game shuts down. So when you see free-to-play advertised, don't fool yourself into thinking that you'll be able to avoid paying for the game.</p><p>As for the gear, I don't see where you need legendary/fabled gear short of top-end group instances and raiding. By the time you've gotten to that point, you're playing the game consistently enough that the monthly subscription makes sense.</p></blockquote><p>The problem I see with DoV is people on silver and free accounts have to buy the expansion... but then on their first quest, they can't wear their quest rewards.</p><p>Buying unlockers constantly on top of the price of the expansion would kind of irritate me personally. :/</p></blockquote><p>They should look at how Lotro does it.  They manage to make loads of money without limiting it so much people won't even give it a go.</p>

Isldur
01-01-2012, 12:21 PM
<p>I'm taking the limitation as a challenge...</p><p>See how far you can progress with the gear available.</p>

Varinn
01-01-2012, 12:30 PM
<p>How's that old saying go, Beggars can't be choosers?</p>

deadcrickets2
01-01-2012, 01:31 PM
<p><cite>Katz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they remove the limitations, what reason would there be to get a subscription or buy the unlockers?</p><p>The math is simple: the bills need to be paid, and the game has to bring in enough money every month to cover those bills. If that doesn't happen, the game shuts down. So when you see free-to-play advertised, don't fool yourself into thinking that you'll be able to avoid paying for the game.</p><p>As for the gear, I don't see where you need legendary/fabled gear short of top-end group instances and raiding. By the time you've gotten to that point, you're playing the game consistently enough that the monthly subscription makes sense.</p></blockquote><p>The problem I see with DoV is people on silver and free accounts have to buy the expansion... but then on their first quest, they can't wear their quest rewards.</p><p>Buying unlockers constantly on top of the price of the expansion would kind of irritate me personally. :/</p></blockquote><p>They should look at how Lotro does it.  They manage to make loads of money without limiting it so much people won't even give it a go.</p></blockquote><p>I like LOTRO a lot.  Some of the items in the store I wish had similar counterparts in this store.  Been playing it since the first day it went F2P.  On the first day the server was hopping and it was a truly new server much like Freeport is.  Within a few months the population had dropped dramatically.   Now you see only a few kinships with the vast majority of the population disappearing after 30.</p>

deadcrickets2
01-01-2012, 01:36 PM
<p>The way the hybrid F2P system is done here is mostly OK though it needs some minor tweaking such as allowing gold cap unlockers.</p><p>Right now it's fully possibly to get all the way to 90 in treasured gear and adepts.  You don't need fancy gear unless you are planning to either raid or do DoV.  How should I know?  I've done it now a few times.  The old challenge of harder mobs is there if you have the treasured gear on.  Anything better begins to trivialize it.</p><p>What's more interesting is I took my level 87 coercer to DoV to finish out the last few levels.  Treasured gear, all adepts except for one expert (A3) spell.  Guess what?  I was killing the mobs fairly rapidly still.  That doesn't mean I would dare to take the coercer up against the dungeons or the heroics in the zones there.   That'd be crazy.</p>

Finora
01-01-2012, 01:41 PM
<p><cite>Katz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They should look at how Lotro does it.  They manage to make loads of money without limiting it so much people won't even give it a go.</p></blockquote><p>What is it that people think LOTRO does so well? I've played that one on and off from beta through it's F2P iteration (not much lately though since I've been too busy).</p><p>I have a grandfathered in account so it's not too bad for me other than not having access to a metric ton of quests I previously had access too. However, making a new character you have to rebuy everything  AND all the quests and crap. Certainly not any better than SOE's version IMO, just different. You can't even get a horse  there unless you buy riding from their market (last I played anyway). IMO the only thing Turbine did that is better is having ways to earn their points in game (albiet at an incredibly slow rate).</p><p>If EQ2s system added  per-character gold cap increasers, ability to purchase bank space and maybe some slow grindy way to earn some SC in game then I think they'd have a pretty good system actually. You really get a lot for nothing as it stands.</p>

redwoodtreesprite
01-01-2012, 01:43 PM
<p><cite>Katz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote></blockquote><p>They should look at how Lotro does it.  They manage to make loads of money without limiting it so much people won't even give it a go.</p></blockquote><p>ROFL, imagine playing Everquest II and not being able to quest past Frostfang Sea or the other starting areas.  And the bag space for a starting FtP player there is a joke.</p>

Amekoi
01-01-2012, 02:08 PM
<p>Maybe it's just me, but I've never seen an issue with the limits SoE has. You get all the content up to DoV, you get access to all gear up to mastercrafted (where you only need better at endgame), and it's possible to fully play and enjoy the game with the coin caps if you're going casual.</p><p>One of my accounts is silver and when playing new characters, as long as I'm not powering them through, have rarely had an issue with not being able to use gear that they have quested or looted, especially at the lower levels. If this limitation is the thing that made your friend not want to play, then perhaps this simply was not the game for him; it's a really minor limitation to be upset about when just starting out.</p>

Lasai
01-01-2012, 02:22 PM
<p>well, back when I started, when the ice age reached nearly to crossroads, and wooly mammoths stalked the commonlands most of us never saw a legendary weapon till far later in the game.. save for rockbellys cutlass.</p><p>Going to sound "oh riiight gramma" here.. but we did nastier content.. lots and lots of linked heroics.. with the same "junk" most people  abandoned old world loots because of and would laugh at today.  Ah, Chickenbane..</p><p>rares were rare, spendy, and MC armor was a pipe dream.  Adept spells were the rule.. Expert and Fabled.. way out of price.</p><p>Limitations look rough but should be manageable far into the game.</p><p>Plat is easier to get, Treasured drops are far better, Rares are less rare, quest payouts are better.</p><p>Remember that fuel as a gold placeholder works well.</p>

ISeeker
01-01-2012, 02:52 PM
<p>Back in my day.. we crafted with dog spit!</p><p>And needed an alch just to do any crafting!!!!!</p><p>I have 1 gold and about 6 silver accounts... The limitions really arn't that bad considering I only have to sub for one account now..</p>

BetaTester
01-01-2012, 03:11 PM
<p>i ended up spending 20 times as much to play on line than buying games outright , and ended up being excluded from most of the content to boot</p><p>its all ego now .</p><p>how many stand alone game are there where you have to get out your credit card and pay extra for appearence armor  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

Kizee
01-01-2012, 03:18 PM
<p>Only issue I really have a problem with is how the exp/aa slider is locked at 50%. It would be nice to have control over how much AA you can get.</p><p>Yeah yeah I know... if you want that option sub monthly however it would be nice to have an unlocker for that also...</p>

Gisallo
01-01-2012, 04:42 PM
<p>To the OP.  f2p is arguably the biggest misnomer ever created.  The entire point of it is to get you in the door and then for all intents and purposes force you to either get a subscription or pay for things alla carte.  It is NOT for people to enjoy all aspects of the game for free.  So you get a drop and can't wear it BUT you can spend a couple bucks to wear that tier of gear or you can sub up and wear most/all tiers of gear and not worry about it again.  It's not going to change anytime soon.</p>

Jrral
01-01-2012, 05:15 PM
<p><cite>gourdon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You can't be talking about a new player unless it was someone you were powerleveling and has got their hands on Legendary/Fabled already or they are a return player.</p></blockquote><p>No, a lot of the solo quests now give legendary rewards. The chance is recent, it happened sometime in the last few months.</p>

Jrral
01-01-2012, 05:27 PM
<p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The problem I see with DoV is people on silver and free accounts have to buy the expansion... but then on their first quest, they can't wear their quest rewards.</p><p>Buying unlockers constantly on top of the price of the expansion would kind of irritate me personally. :/</p></blockquote><p>It's supposed to irritate you. But then, if you're at DoV, if you're truly a new player with no veteran bonus and few in-game contacts to start with and you're not playing 6+ hours a day every single day then you've probably needed a minimum of several months to get to to point of starting DoV. By that point if you're still playing you know you like the game and want to keep playing it regularly. I'd've long before this concluded it'll be cheaper and more convenient to swap piecemeal Marketplace purchases for the monthly subscription (especially considering the SC allowance that comes with it that'll make some future purchases essentially free).</p><p>Which I think is the whole point. F2P may be the current fad, but the subscription model is a nice, consistent, predictable revenue stream and SOE's loathe to give that up to cater to a fad. I treat F2P as a "free trial", a way for people to start the game and level up far enough to decide whether they want to keep playing regularly. Once you've decided you're going to stay and devote significant play-time to this game, it's time to ditch the trial for a regular subscription.</p>

agnott
01-01-2012, 05:39 PM
<p><cite>Elomort wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>the bills need to be paid</p></blockquote><p>Nothing more needs to be said.</p></blockquote><p>The sub model was and is a sound business model to run a MMO. Recent events have proven that.</p><p>The suggestion that the F2P nicking & diming your playbase is the only way to pay the bills is not one based on fact.</p>

Felshades
01-01-2012, 05:46 PM
<p><cite>deadcrickets2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The way the hybrid F2P system is done here is mostly OK though it needs some minor tweaking such as allowing gold cap unlockers.</p><p>Right now it's fully possibly to get all the way to 90 in treasured gear and adepts.  You don't need fancy gear unless you are planning to either raid or do DoV.  How should I know?  I've done it now a few times.  The old challenge of harder mobs is there if you have the treasured gear on.  Anything better begins to trivialize it.</p><p>What's more interesting is I took my level 87 coercer to DoV to finish out the last few levels.  Treasured gear, all adepts except for one expert (A3) spell.  Guess what?  I was killing the mobs fairly rapidly still.  That doesn't mean I would dare to take the coercer up against the dungeons or the heroics in the zones there.   That'd be crazy.</p></blockquote><p>Try it in melee range, with no pet, and no stuns.</p><p>My dirge couldn't do it in SF quested gear worth a crab. The mobs crit a LOT and have a load of HP. It's pretty brutal for any melee class that can't heal.</p>

Felshades
01-01-2012, 05:59 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The problem I see with DoV is people on silver and free accounts have to buy the expansion... but then on their first quest, they can't wear their quest rewards.</p><p>Buying unlockers constantly on top of the price of the expansion would kind of irritate me personally. :/</p></blockquote><p>It's supposed to irritate you. But then, if you're at DoV, if you're truly a new player with no veteran bonus and few in-game contacts to start with and you're not playing 6+ hours a day every single day then you've probably needed a minimum of several months to get to to point of starting DoV. By that point if you're still playing you know you like the game and want to keep playing it regularly. I'd've long before this concluded it'll be cheaper and more convenient to swap piecemeal Marketplace purchases for the monthly subscription (especially considering the SC allowance that comes with it that'll make some future purchases essentially free).</p><p>Which I think is the whole point. F2P may be the current fad, but the subscription model is a nice, consistent, predictable revenue stream and SOE's loathe to give that up to cater to a fad. I treat F2P as a "free trial", a way for people to start the game and level up far enough to decide whether they want to keep playing regularly. Once you've decided you're going to stay and devote significant play-time to this game, it's time to ditch the trial for a regular subscription.</p></blockquote><p>I'm speaking as someone with a second account and on a limited budget.</p><p>Personally, if I was just coming to the game, on my limited budget, with an abhorrent attitude towards paying to play online games(most of my RL friends will not play any subscription based game just on the principle that you buy the game then have to pay MORE to play it) I'd stop playing the instant I couldn't equip my quest rewards.</p><p>A good number of people that play f2p games are playing them BECAUSE they're free. Because they have an aversion to paying to play a game they already paid for.</p><p>The nickel and diming works for the more casual players that don't mind putting out a few bucks here or there. The people I know don't want to put out money EVER. They will(and have) quit (Got my bf to try coming back.. his main was naked and he couldn't use anything he had so said screw it and quit again) if they can't use stuff they get from simple quests. ESPECIALLY things like their epic weapon. Got mine for my inq last night. Can't equip it without buying unlockers. Nice huh?</p><p>Only thing I want to know, is how much it's going to cost me outside the transfer fee and the character slot to transfer this character to my gold account. Course, CS is gonna be slammed when they get back on Tuesday...</p>

Meditatious
01-01-2012, 05:59 PM
<p><cite>DrkVsr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #993300; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The problem is with people thinking 'F2P' stands for 'Free to Play', it doesn't, it stands for '<em>Fee</em> to <em>Pay</em>'</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #993300; font-family: Comic Sans MS;">The reason SOE is turning all it's games 'Fee to Pay' is because think it is 'Free to Play' end up paying more than those who paid a monthly rental</span></p></blockquote><p>How many times are you going to post the same comment to different threads?</p><p>If you don't like the F2P model, then go gold.  (But I bet you already are.)</p><p>Same goes for any new player-- don't like the limitations, subscribe.  I really don't get this constant argument that they're "nickle and diming" everyone to death.  You only get "nickled and dimed" if you choose it.</p>

deadcrickets2
01-01-2012, 06:13 PM
<p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>deadcrickets2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The way the hybrid F2P system is done here is mostly OK though it needs some minor tweaking such as allowing gold cap unlockers.</p><p>Right now it's fully possibly to get all the way to 90 in treasured gear and adepts.  You don't need fancy gear unless you are planning to either raid or do DoV.  How should I know?  I've done it now a few times.  The old challenge of harder mobs is there if you have the treasured gear on.  Anything better begins to trivialize it.</p><p>What's more interesting is I took my level 87 coercer to DoV to finish out the last few levels.  Treasured gear, all adepts except for one expert (A3) spell.  Guess what?  I was killing the mobs fairly rapidly still.  That doesn't mean I would dare to take the coercer up against the dungeons or the heroics in the zones there.   That'd be crazy.</p></blockquote><p>Try it in melee range, with no pet, and no stuns.</p><p>My dirge couldn't do it in SF quested gear worth a crab. The mobs crit a LOT and have a load of HP. It's pretty brutal for any melee class that can't heal.</p></blockquote><p>Doing it right now with my leveling berserker.  No problem at all.</p>

Gravy
01-01-2012, 06:44 PM
<p>You can have a perfectly enjoyable gaming experience by playing totally free up to around level 85. Treasured gear and adpets spells are just fine. The AA slider set to 50% does not negatively affect gameplay from 1-90.</p><p>At 85 you'll need to decide whether to keep playing for free and stay in SF, or buy DoV and start thinking about subscribing or buying unlockers.</p><p>At 90 all your XP gets dumped into AA even if you are a Free player. At this point, AA rolls up pretty fast. Even faster if you're doing quests.</p><p>You can have a great amount of fun for totally free, a small upgrade to Silver makes it a bit easier.</p><p>The problem isn't with the subscription model - its with the players.</p><p>NO PLAYER NEEDS FABLED GEAR AT LEVEL 20.</p><p>NO PLAYER NEEDS MASTERED SPELLS AT LEVEL 40.</p><p>You get enough coin from quests to pay your repair bill and buy fuel if you want to craft.</p><p>Classes are so over-powered now from 1-80 that gear and spells are pretty much irreleveant. They only make you go from killilng fast to killing really fast.</p><p>IMO - EQ2 F2P model is just about perfect.</p>

Felshades
01-01-2012, 06:53 PM
<p><cite>deadcrickets2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>deadcrickets2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The way the hybrid F2P system is done here is mostly OK though it needs some minor tweaking such as allowing gold cap unlockers.</p><p>Right now it's fully possibly to get all the way to 90 in treasured gear and adepts.  You don't need fancy gear unless you are planning to either raid or do DoV.  How should I know?  I've done it now a few times.  The old challenge of harder mobs is there if you have the treasured gear on.  Anything better begins to trivialize it.</p><p>What's more interesting is I took my level 87 coercer to DoV to finish out the last few levels.  Treasured gear, all adepts except for one expert (A3) spell.  Guess what?  I was killing the mobs fairly rapidly still.  That doesn't mean I would dare to take the coercer up against the dungeons or the heroics in the zones there.   That'd be crazy.</p></blockquote><p>Try it in melee range, with no pet, and no stuns.</p><p>My dirge couldn't do it in SF quested gear worth a crab. The mobs crit a LOT and have a load of HP. It's pretty brutal for any melee class that can't heal.</p></blockquote><p>Doing it right now with my leveling berserker.  No problem at all.</p></blockquote><p>My zerker, my dirge and to an extent, my mystic had one HELL of a time levelling up there at 86.</p>

apwyork
01-01-2012, 06:54 PM
<p>To play any mmo free, you MUST accept the limitations placed on those free accounts.  Fortunately this one offers a subscription rate than can be paid ridiculously low cost if you take advantage of their specials.  On double sc sale, you can pay for a year membership for only 45 dollars, which in any game is incredibly cheap for full access for 12 months.</p><p>The limitation of no legendary and no fabled to me is a total non-issue.  At launch, legendary was incredible rare and fabled was what liars said they had.  Certainly, there is an overabundance of those types now, but even the non-legendary is so much better that you can easily gear up with that and not face and hardship in levelling.</p><p>Free to play is free, but if you truly enjoy the game, then you really should subscribe and help them pay the bills and continue to offer support and generate new content.</p><p>In most "free" games, the microtransactions required to do almost anything normally run the cost up well over the subscription fees would have.</p><p>Players who think they should have access to everything in the game for nothing need to go try out a "free" microtransaction game before they start complaining about what they can't have.  Or even look at what they can do here before they complain.</p>

deadcrickets2
01-01-2012, 06:57 PM
<p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>deadcrickets2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>deadcrickets2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The way the hybrid F2P system is done here is mostly OK though it needs some minor tweaking such as allowing gold cap unlockers.</p><p>Right now it's fully possibly to get all the way to 90 in treasured gear and adepts.  You don't need fancy gear unless you are planning to either raid or do DoV.  How should I know?  I've done it now a few times.  The old challenge of harder mobs is there if you have the treasured gear on.  Anything better begins to trivialize it.</p><p>What's more interesting is I took my level 87 coercer to DoV to finish out the last few levels.  Treasured gear, all adepts except for one expert (A3) spell.  Guess what?  I was killing the mobs fairly rapidly still.  That doesn't mean I would dare to take the coercer up against the dungeons or the heroics in the zones there.   That'd be crazy.</p></blockquote><p>Try it in melee range, with no pet, and no stuns.</p><p>My dirge couldn't do it in SF quested gear worth a crab. The mobs crit a LOT and have a load of HP. It's pretty brutal for any melee class that can't heal.</p></blockquote><p>Doing it right now with my leveling berserker.  No problem at all.</p></blockquote><p>My zerker, my dirge and to an extent, my mystic had one HELL of a time levelling up there at 86.</p></blockquote><p>NO idea.  Am level 85.  Maybe the AA setup?</p>

Kizee
01-01-2012, 07:27 PM
<p><cite>Gravy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You can have a perfectly enjoyable gaming experience by playing totally free up to around level 85. Treasured gear and adpets spells are just fine. <span style="color: #ffff00;">The AA slider set to 50% does not negatively affect gameplay from 1-90.</span></p><p>At 85 you'll need to decide whether to keep playing for free and stay in SF, or buy DoV and start thinking about subscribing or buying unlockers.</p><p>At 90 all your XP gets dumped into AA even if you are a Free player. At this point, AA rolls up pretty fast. Even faster if you're doing quests.</p><p>You can have a great amount of fun for totally free, a small upgrade to Silver makes it a bit easier.</p><p>The problem isn't with the subscription model - its with the players.</p><p>NO PLAYER NEEDS FABLED GEAR AT LEVEL 20.</p><p>NO PLAYER NEEDS MASTERED SPELLS AT LEVEL 40.</p><p>You get enough coin from quests to pay your repair bill and buy fuel if you want to craft.</p><p>Classes are so over-powered now from 1-80 that gear and spells are pretty much irreleveant. They only make you go from killilng fast to killing really fast.</p><p>IMO - EQ2 F2P model is just about perfect.</p></blockquote><p>IMO it does. By the time you get to 90 you are so far behind in AA's that it will be a bear to catch back up. AA's are more important than levels and this current system really g i m p s (really? that is filtered?) your character when you get to 90.</p><p>If they are charging $7.50 to unlock a class then they can add in an unlocker to unlock that also.</p>

deadcrickets2
01-01-2012, 08:08 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gravy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You can have a perfectly enjoyable gaming experience by playing totally free up to around level 85. Treasured gear and adpets spells are just fine. <span style="color: #ffff00;">The AA slider set to 50% does not negatively affect gameplay from 1-90.</span></p><p>At 85 you'll need to decide whether to keep playing for free and stay in SF, or buy DoV and start thinking about subscribing or buying unlockers.</p><p>At 90 all your XP gets dumped into AA even if you are a Free player. At this point, AA rolls up pretty fast. Even faster if you're doing quests.</p><p>You can have a great amount of fun for totally free, a small upgrade to Silver makes it a bit easier.</p><p>The problem isn't with the subscription model - its with the players.</p><p>NO PLAYER NEEDS FABLED GEAR AT LEVEL 20.</p><p>NO PLAYER NEEDS MASTERED SPELLS AT LEVEL 40.</p><p>You get enough coin from quests to pay your repair bill and buy fuel if you want to craft.</p><p>Classes are so over-powered now from 1-80 that gear and spells are pretty much irreleveant. They only make you go from killilng fast to killing really fast.</p><p>IMO - EQ2 F2P model is just about perfect.</p></blockquote><p>IMO it does. By the time you get to 90 you are so far behind in AA's that it will be a bear to catch back up. AA's are more important than levels and this current system really g i m p s (really? that is filtered?) your character when you get to 90.</p><p>If they are charging $7.50 to unlock a class then they can add in an unlocker to unlock that also.</p></blockquote><p>Depends on what you do.  If you are a questing fool you can easily hit over 200 AA with the 50% lock.  I'm sitting at 227 right now on the berserker.</p>

Felshades
01-01-2012, 08:11 PM
<p><cite>apwyork wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To play any mmo free, you MUST accept the limitations placed on those free accounts.  Fortunately this one offers a subscription rate than can be paid ridiculously low cost if you take advantage of their specials.  On double sc sale, you can pay for a year membership for only 45 dollars, which in any game is incredibly cheap for full access for 12 months.</p><p>The limitation of no legendary and no fabled to me is a total non-issue.  At launch, legendary was incredible rare and fabled was what liars said they had.  Certainly, there is an overabundance of those types now, but even the non-legendary is so much better that you can easily gear up with that and not face and hardship in levelling.</p><p>Free to play is free, but if you truly enjoy the game, then you really should subscribe and help them pay the bills and continue to offer support and generate new content.</p><p>In most "free" games, the microtransactions required to do almost anything normally run the cost up well over the subscription fees would have.</p><p>Players who think they should have access to everything in the game for nothing need to go try out a "free" microtransaction game before they start complaining about what they can't have.  Or even look at what they can do here before they complain.</p></blockquote><p>They actually hope you DON'T subscribe and instead pay all the micros and have it cost more than the subscription.</p><p>That's why games are going "free to play". Because it potentially costs YOU more, and makes THEM more money.</p>

Felshades
01-01-2012, 08:15 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gravy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You can have a perfectly enjoyable gaming experience by playing totally free up to around level 85. Treasured gear and adpets spells are just fine. <span style="color: #ffff00;">The AA slider set to 50% does not negatively affect gameplay from 1-90.</span></p><p>At 85 you'll need to decide whether to keep playing for free and stay in SF, or buy DoV and start thinking about subscribing or buying unlockers.</p><p>At 90 all your XP gets dumped into AA even if you are a Free player. At this point, AA rolls up pretty fast. Even faster if you're doing quests.</p><p>You can have a great amount of fun for totally free, a small upgrade to Silver makes it a bit easier.</p><p>The problem isn't with the subscription model - its with the players.</p><p>NO PLAYER NEEDS FABLED GEAR AT LEVEL 20.</p><p>NO PLAYER NEEDS MASTERED SPELLS AT LEVEL 40.</p><p>You get enough coin from quests to pay your repair bill and buy fuel if you want to craft.</p><p>Classes are so over-powered now from 1-80 that gear and spells are pretty much irreleveant. They only make you go from killilng fast to killing really fast.</p><p>IMO - EQ2 F2P model is just about perfect.</p></blockquote><p>IMO it does. By the time you get to 90 you are so far behind in AA's that it will be a bear to catch back up. AA's are more important than levels and this current system really g i m p s (really? that is filtered?) your character when you get to 90.</p><p>If they are charging $7.50 to unlock a class then they can add in an unlocker to unlock that also.</p></blockquote><p>My 82 Inquisitor has 222 AA and will likely have 250 by the time I hit 90. The cap for SF I do believe is 250. And this is on a silver account with the slider locked. She hasn't really been questing, I've been powerlevelling her with my 90 zerker. She's done a few quests but that's about it. Got the horse in Darklight, did a couple HQs in the zones I was levelling her anyways(screaming mace in CT for example). Doing dragon language atm, did her epic weapon line so I can do ER.</p><p>If you're questing you're likely to hit 250 AA before you even HIT 90. I think it's fine.</p>

Deveryn
01-01-2012, 08:32 PM
<p>I'm amazed champions online was brought into this conversation. That game is a joke. I played it for a while and it becomes a dull grind really fast. Then there were poorly designed features like sidekicking which has a range for some stupid reason. Travel gets boring and tedious after a while. CO just doesn't hold a candle to EQ2.</p><p>Personally, I see little wrong with the new model. Maybe that's because I've been paying subs for 10 years. Paying no sub and having limited access is far better than no access. There's still plenty you can do, you just have to be creative.</p>

thesiren
01-01-2012, 08:43 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If EQ2s system added  per-character gold cap increasers, ability to purchase bank space and maybe some slow grindy way to earn some SC in game then I think they'd have a pretty good system actually. You really get a lot for nothing as it stands.</p></blockquote><p>Good for whom though?  For you, but not for Sony.</p><p>Like a poster on the former Freeport Extended boards said,</p><p>"Buying a brand new truck for $10 would be great...for me.  For the seller?  Not so much."  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Please wake up and realize that the game we all love is going to disappear if Sony doesn't get enough money out of it, and nothing says security like a $15 a month sub, The Ultimate Unlocker.  And just think:  You get all 24 classes, all races, all storage, full broker sales, and full mobility of the AA slider as well as your coveted plat unlocker, for every character, for 30 days straight!  And you even get 3 more characters than you had as a silver!</p><p>Such a deal.</p>

Michayla
01-01-2012, 10:07 PM
<p>SoE has been pretty generous with their free to play model. So far, all I've read is a bunch of old account holders wanting to play the entire game for free.</p>

Luterin
01-01-2012, 11:29 PM
<p><cite>thesiren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If EQ2s system added  per-character gold cap increasers, ability to purchase bank space and maybe some slow grindy way to earn some SC in game then I think they'd have a pretty good system actually. You really get a lot for nothing as it stands.</p></blockquote><p>Good for whom though?  For you, but not for Sony.</p><p>Like a poster on the former Freeport Extended boards said,</p><p>"Buying a brand new truck for $10 would be great...for me.  For the seller?  Not so much."  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Please wake up and realize that the game we all love is going to disappear if Sony doesn't get enough money out of it, and nothing says security like a $15 a month sub, The Ultimate Unlocker.  And just think:  You get all 24 classes, all races, all storage, full broker sales, and full mobility of the AA slider as well as your coveted plat unlocker, for every character, for 30 days straight!  And you even get 3 more characters than you had as a silver!</p><p>Such a deal.</p></blockquote><p>You can even get a full year for $30 if you buy walmart cards and cash them in during x3 SC, or $40 for a full year if you dont have access to those. Like me...</p>

Kikiriki
01-01-2012, 11:42 PM
<p>I have to agree with how silly some of the restrictions are.</p><p>My husband logged into his toons that he had before FTP absolutely naked. Gear that he had quested for and equipped was unavailable to him until he bought little potions.  Five of them. Which was really cleverly planned, because you have buy two sets just to be able to equip seven pieces of your armor set. At 150SC a pop, it's 300 to get just that, and maybe your weapons done. And then, if you find a better piece, you need more potions. It's ridiculous. It's cheaper to just pay for a monthly fee than for the nickels and dimes.</p><p>I understand the bills need to be paid, and I don't expect everything to be for free, but this is just... kinda badly done in my opinion. Top this all off with popup ads for the game you are /currently on./</p><p>It could have been done much better than this. But I understand my opinion on this will be wholly unpopular and people will call it whining, but I really don't care. It's my opinion.</p>

Kizee
01-02-2012, 12:01 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have to agree with how silly some of the restrictions are.</p><p>My husband logged into his toons that he had before FTP absolutely naked. Gear that he had quested for and equipped was unavailable to him until he bought little potions.  Five of them. Which was really cleverly planned, because you have buy two sets just to be able to equip seven pieces of your armor set. At 150SC a pop, it's 300 to get just that, and maybe your weapons done. And then, if you find a better piece, you need more potions. It's ridiculous. It's cheaper to just pay for a monthly fee than for the nickels and dimes.</p><p>I understand the bills need to be paid, and I don't expect everything to be for free, but this is just... kinda badly done in my opinion. Top this all off with popup ads for the game you are /currently on./</p><p>It could have been done much better than this. But I understand my opinion on this will be wholly unpopular and people will call it whining, but I really don't care. It's my opinion.</p></blockquote><p>After that first initial hit of having to unlock everything...how often will you upgrade gear.  30 cents per unlock is pretty cheap IMO.</p><p>You would get 50 unlocks for the price of 1 months sub...there is no way you would need that many unless you have multiple characters.</p>

Peogia
01-02-2012, 12:18 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have to agree with how silly some of the restrictions are.</p><p>My husband logged into his toons that he had before FTP absolutely naked. Gear that he had quested for and equipped was unavailable to him until he bought little potions.  Five of them. Which was really cleverly planned, because you have buy two sets just to be able to equip seven pieces of your armor set. At 150SC a pop, it's 300 to get just that, and maybe your weapons done. And then, if you find a better piece, you need more potions. It's ridiculous. It's cheaper to just pay for a monthly fee than for the nickels and dimes.</p><p>I understand the bills need to be paid, and I don't expect everything to be for free, but this is just... kinda badly done in my opinion. Top this all off with popup ads for the game you are /currently on./</p><p>It could have been done much better than this. But I understand my opinion on this will be wholly unpopular and people will call it whining, but I really don't care. It's my opinion.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed this games still not free to play</p><p>be really careful with the unlocks they can add up super fast to more money then this games worth on a regular sub</p>

Michayla
01-02-2012, 12:39 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have to agree with how silly some of the restrictions are.</p><p>My husband logged into his toons that he had before FTP absolutely naked. Gear that he had quested for and equipped was unavailable to him until he bought little potions.  Five of them. Which was really cleverly planned, because you have buy two sets just to be able to equip seven pieces of your armor set. At 150SC a pop, it's 300 to get just that, and maybe your weapons done. And then, if you find a better piece, you need more potions. It's ridiculous. It's cheaper to just pay for a monthly fee than for the nickels and dimes.</p><p>I understand the bills need to be paid, and I don't expect everything to be for free, but this is just... kinda badly done in my opinion. Top this all off with popup ads for the game you are /currently on./</p><p>It could have been done much better than this. But I understand my opinion on this will be wholly unpopular and people will call it whining, but I really don't care. It's my opinion.</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand how it could be "done better" than what it is now.</p><p>You get all content up to SF for FREE. You can level to 90 for FREE. You can go to all the zones, except DoV specific content, for FREE. As it stands, you can experience the majority of lore and story for FREE. This is EverQUEST, not EverRaid. If your husband expected to log in on a free account and go raiding, then he should have a gold subscription. Period. If he wants to experience the entire game, he should pay for a subscription. Period, end of story. Asking to experience the entire game for no money hashed out on your part is ridiculous. Don't like it? That's what console games are for. Pay for the game once and you can experience the whole game all you like.</p>

Dreyco
01-02-2012, 12:46 AM
<p>I think that we have to be careful when we ask for things to be lifted when it comes to Free to Play restrictions.  The more that we ask for in that sense, the more that arguments start to lean or look like we are just looking for the game to cost nothing.. which is a problem when it comes to establishing an argument in that sense.</p><p>We need to understand that SOE needs to make money to pay the developers, the bills, and everything related regarding the game.</p><p>With that said... I'd recommend that for everything that is removed, we recommend things that could be added if the player is really free.  What could we gate instead?</p><p>Or if the entire model is flawed, what could they gate in its place that would be a better alternative?</p><p>But SOMETHING HAS to be gated... else they won't make any money.</p>

Felshades
01-02-2012, 01:03 AM
<p>I think it would have been a little less of a shock on returning players if they were able to keep wearing what they already had, with another one of those annoying pop up windows stating that if they want to equip any new legendary or fabled gear they need to purchase unlockers for them.</p><p>Was a really big turnoff for my bf, who was wearing the cloud mount timeline armor when he quit.</p>

thesiren
01-02-2012, 01:17 AM
<p><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>...But SOMETHING HAS to be gated... else they won't make any money.</p></blockquote><p>The SOMETHINGS that are gated are already apparently the best things to be gated (plat cap, AA slider, needing unlockers for masters/leg/fabled), otherwise you wouldn't see whine after whine to have them removed.</p><p>Sony is putting the squeeze on people exactly where it hurts the most; this is extremely clear.  And by making more and more threads asking to remove those (or in the case of the Ultimate Squeezing Item, lol, the plat cap, asking repeatedly to make it a one-shot fee instead of a monthly sub fee or eliminate having to pay for it altogether), all you are really doing is confirming to Sony that they are making you as uncomfortable as they are aiming too, rofl.  So they are even less likely to ever do anything about any of it, because it works so darned well!!</p><p>And if you *really* aren't intending to pay Sony anything, ever (which is the only reason people would beg for these restrictions to be eliminated) then I'm sure they feel it's good riddance to bad rubbish if you quit, lol.</p>

Iad
01-02-2012, 01:18 AM
<p>I would bet this game would have far more people if there weren't numerous F2P limitations that annoy people to the point of not wanting to play period. People expect to be charged for new content, not to equip gear and other lame aspects of SoE's F2P system. Having access up to SF doesn't really matter when a person is annoyed at doing a quest only to find that they can't equip the quest reward. Why even allow people to do quests if the gear can't be equiped without spending real money? As I said, MMO players are used to paying money to gain access to new lands, and would find having to purchase to gain access to new land far more resonable than being charged to equip a single piece of new gear all the time.</p>

thesiren
01-02-2012, 01:21 AM
<p><cite>Iad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would bet this game would have far more people if there weren't numerous F2P limitations that annoy people to the point of not wanting to play period. People expect to be charged for new content, not to equip gear and other lame aspects of SoE's F2P system. Having access up to SF doesn't really matter when a person is annoyed at doing a quest only to find that they can't equip the quest reward. Why even allow people to do quests if the gear can't be equiped without spending real money? As I said, MMO players are used to paying money to gain access to new lands, and would find having to purchase to gain access to new land far more resonable than being charged to equip a single piece of new gear all the time.</p></blockquote><p>Sounds like *you're* used to LoTRO.  Personally, I think EQ2's F2P is far superior, and I think Turbine is a little ridiculous in bringing LoTRO to a grinding halt by 20 (and DDO by level 10, unless you want to farm the same freaking little greens until 14 when they go grey).  EQ2 gives you the world for free.</p><p>And I say all this as not only a dual station account all access subber here, but as a lifer since launch in LoTRO.</p><p>Silver here tempts me sometimes.  F2P Turbine's way tempts me never.  It's why I'll never dual box there.  I only have one lifer account.</p>

Iad
01-02-2012, 01:25 AM
<p><cite>thesiren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sounds like *you're* used to LoTRO.  Personally, I think EQ2's F2P is far superior, and I think Turbine is a little ridiculous in bringing LoTRO to a grinding halt by 20 (and DDO by level 10, unless you want to farm the same freaking little greens until 14 when they go grey).  EQ2 gives you the world for free.</p><p>And I say all this as not only a dual station account all access subber here, but as a lifer since launch in LoTRO.</p><p>Silver here tempts me sometimes.  F2P Turbine's way tempts me never.  It's why I'll never dual box there.  I only have one lifer account.</p></blockquote><p>In my 12 year MMO experience I have always purchased new expansions, not single pieces of gear. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> My post has nothing to do with Lotro. Nice try though.</p>

Dreyco
01-02-2012, 02:11 AM
<p><cite>Iad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>thesiren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sounds like *you're* used to LoTRO.  Personally, I think EQ2's F2P is far superior, and I think Turbine is a little ridiculous in bringing LoTRO to a grinding halt by 20 (and DDO by level 10, unless you want to farm the same freaking little greens until 14 when they go grey).  EQ2 gives you the world for free.</p><p>And I say all this as not only a dual station account all access subber here, but as a lifer since launch in LoTRO.</p><p>Silver here tempts me sometimes.  F2P Turbine's way tempts me never.  It's why I'll never dual box there.  I only have one lifer account.</p></blockquote><p>In my 12 year MMO experience I have always purchased new expansions, not single pieces of gear. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> My post has nothing to do with Lotro. Nice try though.</p></blockquote><p>Well, let's do a compare and contrast though of content there is to be gated in EQ2, vs the content that there is to be gated in LoTRO.  Then, using amounts that are similar... how much would it cost to unlock all gated content if they were to switch to that model instead?</p><p>Now, in EQ2.. you pay $1.50 to equip five pieces of legendary gear.  That's... $0.25 cents a pop.  <em>Twenty five cents</em>.  You would rather pay five, ten, perhaps twenty dollars per expansion or quest area?</p><p>I dunno... twenty five cents per piece of gear is pretty dang generous.  Considering how much I upgrade my gear... I can get away with paying probably less than a sub and still stay in the game with next to no problem.  I'd probably even save 50%, if not more.</p>

Peogia
01-02-2012, 07:59 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have to agree with how silly some of the restrictions are.</p><p>My husband logged into his toons that he had before FTP absolutely naked. Gear that he had quested for and equipped was unavailable to him until he bought little potions.  Five of them. Which was really cleverly planned, because you have buy two sets just to be able to equip seven pieces of your armor set. At 150SC a pop, it's 300 to get just that, and maybe your weapons done. And then, if you find a better piece, you need more potions. It's ridiculous. It's cheaper to just pay for a monthly fee than for the nickels and dimes.</p><p>I understand the bills need to be paid, and I don't expect everything to be for free, but this is just... kinda badly done in my opinion. Top this all off with popup ads for the game you are /currently on./</p><p>It could have been done much better than this. But I understand my opinion on this will be wholly unpopular and people will call it whining, but I really don't care. It's my opinion.</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand how it could be "done better" than what it is now.</p><p>You get all content up to SF for FREE. You can level to 90 for FREE. You can go to all the zones, except DoV specific content, </p></blockquote><p>Sony's idea of free to play sentinels of fate and down no races no classes no gear no nothing</p><p>Sony's trial account Sentinels of fate and down all races except freeblood all classes except beastlord and access to all items and gear in game</p><p>what they could of done better? well thats really simple take away 14day limit on trial and it would of been flawless but no this games a joke and only run it to nickel and dime us hence the way its all set up</p>

Michayla
01-02-2012, 09:13 AM
<p><cite>Peogia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have to agree with how silly some of the restrictions are.</p><p>My husband logged into his toons that he had before FTP absolutely naked. Gear that he had quested for and equipped was unavailable to him until he bought little potions.  Five of them. Which was really cleverly planned, because you have buy two sets just to be able to equip seven pieces of your armor set. At 150SC a pop, it's 300 to get just that, and maybe your weapons done. And then, if you find a better piece, you need more potions. It's ridiculous. It's cheaper to just pay for a monthly fee than for the nickels and dimes.</p><p>I understand the bills need to be paid, and I don't expect everything to be for free, but this is just... kinda badly done in my opinion. Top this all off with popup ads for the game you are /currently on./</p><p>It could have been done much better than this. But I understand my opinion on this will be wholly unpopular and people will call it whining, but I really don't care. It's my opinion.</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand how it could be "done better" than what it is now.</p><p>You get all content up to SF for FREE. You can level to 90 for FREE. You can go to all the zones, except DoV specific content, </p></blockquote><p>Sony's idea of free to play sentinels of fate and down no races no classes no gear no nothing</p><p>Sony's trial account Sentinels of fate and down all races except freeblood all classes except beastlord and access to all items and gear in game</p><p>what they could of done better? well thats really simple take away 14day limit on trial and it would of been flawless but no this games a joke and only run it to nickel and dime us hence the way its all set up</p></blockquote><p>Really? Cause for the amount of whining you've done on the subject, you'd be here whining that you can only experience the game up to level 20, which would be fantastic if this were still say...2006. But it isn't, we're in 2012, and a trial up to level 20 where even the newest person can hit that level in a couple of hours.</p><p>No races? Let's see. You get 4 to choose from.</p><p>No classes? Try 8 to choose from. That's plenty.</p><p>No gear? You can equip up to Mastercrafted, which is more than enough to drudge through pre-DoV content.</p><p>Players who have quit and are returning, well good for them that they finally decided to return. But to honestly expect to be REWARDED for quitting by having full access to your characters? No, I'm sorry, but that's completely ridiculous. It's bad enough SoE grandfathered your toons. Be happy about that, instead of whining how you can't equip this or that, how your plat is locked, ect. YOU quit the game, whether out of boredom or circumstance. </p><p>Did you honestly think SoE, a COMPANY centered around making money, would give you the entire game for free?</p><p>As Dreyco mentioned, something needs to be gated. So for all you people complaining that the restrictions are too much, tell me, what are you willing to give up to get those restrictions taken away? You need to give a little to get a little, so let's hear it.</p>

Night76
01-02-2012, 09:17 AM
<p>Then how about this, sorta middle of the road for equips <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Instead of:</p><p>Bronze = treasured</p><p>Silver = treasured</p><p>Gold = everything</p><p>This:</p><p>Bronze = treasured</p><p>Silver = legendary</p><p>Gold = everything</p>

Soldancer
01-02-2012, 11:20 AM
<p>Yes, "Silver" should include legendary because there is no treasured gear in DoV. And most of endgame players are in DoV areas, therefore it's impossible to play with others if you only have silver and don't want to spent money for dozens of unlockers. To play with SF gear in DoV makes also no sense because you need ages to kill solo mobs, playing in DoV instances would end in dozens of deaths.</p><p>There is still lot of fabled gear outside of raiding content which would encourage players either buy "Gold" or some unlockers. Another possibility would be to flag at least all DoV quest gear as "Treasured".</p>

Peogia
01-02-2012, 01:32 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Peogia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have to agree with how silly some of the restrictions are.</p><p>My husband logged into his toons that he had before FTP absolutely naked. Gear that he had quested for and equipped was unavailable to him until he bought little potions.  Five of them. Which was really cleverly planned, because you have buy two sets just to be able to equip seven pieces of your armor set. At 150SC a pop, it's 300 to get just that, and maybe your weapons done. And then, if you find a better piece, you need more potions. It's ridiculous. It's cheaper to just pay for a monthly fee than for the nickels and dimes.</p><p>I understand the bills need to be paid, and I don't expect everything to be for free, but this is just... kinda badly done in my opinion. Top this all off with popup ads for the game you are /currently on./</p><p>It could have been done much better than this. But I understand my opinion on this will be wholly unpopular and people will call it whining, but I really don't care. It's my opinion.</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand how it could be "done better" than what it is now.</p><p>You get all content up to SF for FREE. You can level to 90 for FREE. You can go to all the zones, except DoV specific content, </p></blockquote><p>Sony's idea of free to play sentinels of fate and down no races no classes no gear no nothing</p><p>Sony's trial account Sentinels of fate and down all races except freeblood all classes except beastlord and access to all items and gear in game</p><p>what they could of done better? well thats really simple take away 14day limit on trial and it would of been flawless but no this games a joke and only run it to nickel and dime us hence the way its all set up</p></blockquote><p>Really? Cause for the amount of you've done on the subject, you'd be here that you can only experience the game up to level 20, which would be fantastic if this were still say...2006. But it isn't, we're in 2012, and a trial up to level 20 where even the newest person can hit that level in a couple of hours.</p></blockquote><p>I am not sure where you have been the past years but you could level past 20 up to 80 or 90 on the trial, when posting make sure your posting about the right game</p><p>and btw lvl20 doesn't take a couple hours, it can be done in minutes, again make sure your posting about the correct game</p>

Banedon_Toran
01-02-2012, 01:38 PM
<cite>Soldancer wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yes, "Silver" should include legendary because there is no treasured gear in DoV. And most of endgame players are in DoV areas, therefore it's impossible to play with others if you only have silver and don't want to spent money for dozens of unlockers. To play with SF gear in DoV makes also no sense because you need ages to kill solo mobs, playing in DoV instances would end in dozens of deaths.</p><p>There is still lot of fabled gear outside of raiding content which would encourage players either buy "Gold" or some unlockers. Another possibility would be to flag at least all DoV quest gear as "Treasured".</p></blockquote> This is the crux of the matter, and it's where those of us who have been on Freeport/EQ2X and seen the influx of players will disagree with you. DoV is ENDGAME, as further reinforced by the fact that Sony still have new content to add to the game as part of the DoV expansion throughout 2012. The optimum cost of playing EQ2 is to go silver until around level 85, perfectly possible with mastercrafted gear and expert level upgrades, at around 85 switch to gold subscription and get yourself into an end-game guild willing to help you to gear up. Once you hit 90 and have caught up with the other top-tier members of your guild switch back to silver and simply buy unlockers whenever a master/gear upgrade drops and you manage to win via loot roll/dkp. The problem is the number of returning players who are at that level 85-90/start of DoV point, well I'm sorry but the recommendation would be to go for the gold subscription. In the end Sony has to make money, allowing new players (real new players) to experience 85 levels worth game and only spend what they want to spend (even if that is nothing) is a great way of pulling new players into the game, if they stick with the game until level 85 they will be more inclined to think about subscribing gold, even if only for a few months until they are geared up. Having free players sub-level 85 helps to create the right atmosphere to entice other people to play EQ2, a major issue pre-EQ2X was encouraging new people to play a game where the lower tiers were empty and dead. No MMO can ever be truly 'Free to Play' without any restrictions, unless you're willing to accept that Brell's Brew is brewed and bottled by the Coca-Cola company, that Antonia Bayle wears Chanel number 5, or even worse an advertising window as part of the game ui that cannot be moved or removed... but even that isn't a solution, since the advertising revenues are unlikely to pay for the cost of the game. Sony hasn't inflicted in-game third-party advertising on you, they haven't sold your email address to spammers, they've given joe public 90% of the game to play for free and are taking the gamble that the 90% will entice the customer to pay for the last 10%.

d1anaw
01-02-2012, 02:21 PM
<p><cite>Enever wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Normally I don't post things like this. I doubt Anyone will even care, but when I spoke to a person today they gave some real good points towards how limiting the Free to Play is.</p><p>I brought it forward to get it off of my mind, and maybe, by some blessing of god SoE will take into consideration.</p><p>He's played the game for 2 hours, and got disgusted with the thigns He could not do. He could not wear what he quested for and lost all incentive to even loo kat EQ2 again.</p><p>My concern is that other Free to Play people wishing to try the game out are being chased away due to SoE severly limiting the Free to Play accounts.</p><p>The thign that he really was mad about was the inability to wear Legendary/Fabled gear. To me this is one Limitation that -must- go. Give the acounts access to these items so that the new players can give a taste for what the game has to offer.</p><p>The whole free-to-play concept in EQ2 is stupid and extremely limiting. For an example at what game does F2P best is Champions Online... they do it right.</p><p>Just please take into consideration, just atleast remove the gear limitations from Free to Play. it makes new players not want to play the game anymore.</p><p>Thanks...I needed to get that out of my mind, if this is the wrong forum for it please move it to a relevant one.</p></blockquote><p>What is up with this entitlement mentality? Why should you get to do everything for free that others pay for? It's more cost effective to just ante up the $15/month. If you cannot or do not want to do that, then live with the limitations. Not everyone is entitled to drive a mercedes just because some people do. That's life. Welcome.</p>

Finora
01-02-2012, 06:43 PM
<p><cite>thesiren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If EQ2s system added  per-character gold cap increasers, ability to purchase bank space and maybe some slow grindy way to earn some SC in game then I think they'd have a pretty good system actually.<strong><span style="color: #ff0000;"> You really get a lot for nothing as it stands.</span></strong></p></blockquote><p>Good for whom though?  For you, but not for Sony.</p><p>Like a poster on the former Freeport Extended boards said,</p><p>"Buying a brand new truck for $10 would be great...for me.  For the seller?  Not so much."  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Please wake up and realize that the game we all love is going to disappear if Sony doesn't get enough money out of it, and nothing says security like a $15 a month sub, The Ultimate Unlocker.  And just think:  You get all 24 classes, all races, all storage, full broker sales, and full mobility of the AA slider as well as your coveted plat unlocker, for every character, for 30 days straight!  And you even get 3 more characters than you had as a silver!</p><p>Such a deal.</p></blockquote><p>You are so quoting the wrong person to defend EQ2s F2P model. Find someone who's actually complaining about Eq2 F2P =p. (Note the bolded portion of my statement in red there)</p><p>I was  saying that the system EQ2 has is fine. If they added those things it would easily be the most player friendly F2P that I've ever seen.</p><p>Specifically I was pointing out to people who seem to think Turbine is the god of F2P that their model isn't really all that  & Eq2's system is at least as good (and in my personal opinion much better since you don't have to unlock all the quests and stuff).</p><p>And for the record, I do pay subs. I've 3 paid sub accounts. I've had 2 of those since launch and the other for 3ish years now. I recently opened up my last 2 old eq1 accounts as silver here. The system is not nearly as restrictive as people are making out.</p>

Guy De Alsace
01-02-2012, 09:27 PM
<p>I have no problem with the F2P system in EQ2.</p><p>Apart from being treated like idiots.</p><p>Creating an <em>entire</em> expansion that only rewards legendary gear was done completely and totally to ensure any free players have to buy unlockers. Same with the changes where legendary and fabled loot is literally hanging off the trees. Why would they not provide treasured rewards like <strong>every other zone in the game?</strong></p><p>SOE are really in danger of trivialising all their own content by dint of the quest for more money from item unlock sales. I was questing in Kylong Plains today and walked away with at <em>least </em>20 legendary drops and four fabled items from ultra-easy named mobs. Each chest had a minimum of two legendary items in it.</p><p>SOE know all content prior to DoV isn't worth a dang so they are milking as much out of item unlock sales as they possibly can because no-one is going to complain that a solo toon is almost totally fabled out from random drops. Its old content therefore irrelevant.</p><p>Its a sad thing when a company resorts to taking apart their own game so that they can get more finnicky sales. I would have bought four copies of DoV (one for each account) by now but since its pretty much worthless for anyone not on a sub I've just got one copy for my gold account and level locking my F2P toons at 85 when they get there.</p><p>Allow silver accounts to use legendary but increase the cost to a one time purchase of £30 instead of £10. Its still great value for money and you're going to get a lot more people buying DoV. OR do the decent thing and add treasured rewards to the DoV line.</p><p>Stop treating people like idiots.</p>

Griffildur
01-03-2012, 06:25 AM
<p><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Well, let's do a compare and contrast though of content there is to be gated in EQ2, vs the content that there is to be gated in LoTRO.  Then, using amounts that are similar... how much would it cost to unlock all gated content if they were to switch to that model instead?</p><p>Now, in EQ2.. you pay $1.50 to equip five pieces of legendary gear.  That's... $0.25 cents a pop.  <em>Twenty five cents</em>.  You would rather pay five, ten, perhaps twenty dollars per expansion or quest area?</p><p>I dunno... twenty five cents per piece of gear is pretty dang generous.  Considering how much I upgrade my gear... I can get away with paying probably less than a sub and still stay in the game with next to no problem.  I'd probably even save 50%, if not more.</p></blockquote><p>Why do you compare EQ2 to Lotro in the first place, since the person you're responding to didn't even mention that ?</p><p>The point is that anyone coming back to the game ( rememeber the stupid come back emails SOE sent recently ? ) won't start oaying straight away, will see they can login yes, but can't play at all without gear ( doh ) and leave again , which has already happened.</p><p>Now, perhaps you should for once think ( hard I know ... ) </p><p>at lvl 90 you swap legendary and fabled almost daily. There is a ton of equipment and you can never know when it drops, All instances drop gear, then you get the lucky outland drops ( yes fabled equipment drops from normal mobs as well ).</p><p>Then you get 2 x2 zones and you get all the EM, HM, Drunder EM. The point is you'll pay for those all the time. Is that fair ? maybe it is, if you play silver and get a drop yeah you should pay to unlock.</p><p>But the point here is , people coming back, with their gear and they discover they have to pay to play for free ? That is not going down well, is it ? Can you compare the 2 ? NO.</p><p>Get it now ?</p>

Griffildur
01-03-2012, 06:26 AM
<p><cite>Soldancer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, "Silver" should include legendary because there is no treasured gear in DoV. And most of endgame players are in DoV areas, therefore it's impossible to play with others if you only have silver and don't want to spent money for dozens of unlockers. To play with SF gear in DoV makes also no sense because you need ages to kill solo mobs, playing in DoV instances would end in dozens of deaths.</p><p>There is still lot of fabled gear outside of raiding content which would encourage players either buy "Gold" or some unlockers. Another possibility would be to flag at least all DoV quest gear as "Treasured".</p></blockquote><p>There's a reason DOv only has legendary stuff. I'll let you think about what that reason is ...</p>

Soldancer
01-03-2012, 06:43 AM
<p><cite>Banedon_Toran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><cite></cite>The problem is the number of returning players who are at that level 85-90/start of DoV point, well I'm sorry but the recommendation would be to go for the gold subscription.</blockquote><p>If I would be willing to pay a monthly fee I would play SWToR. I played EQ2 since launch and had lot of fun over the years, but over the time I lost much interest in playing (main reason was because they totaly ruined the mage archetype with all the immunities, makes no sense to play my coercer anymore).</p><p>With F2P it's nice to play sometimes, I started fresh with an Inqui, and I would also buy some unlockers for fabled parts but never for legendary. It would become too expensive for me and would cost same as gold. For a healthy population it would be better for SOE to let players like me play with legendary on silver. I payed several hundred bucks over the years for EQ2, that's more than the price of lifetime subscriptions of other games. They should at least unlock legendary for silver for those accounts which were active longer than 5 years or so.</p>

Dreyco
01-03-2012, 07:02 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Well, let's do a compare and contrast though of content there is to be gated in EQ2, vs the content that there is to be gated in LoTRO.  Then, using amounts that are similar... how much would it cost to unlock all gated content if they were to switch to that model instead?</p><p>Now, in EQ2.. you pay $1.50 to equip five pieces of legendary gear.  That's... $0.25 cents a pop.  <em>Twenty five cents</em>.  You would rather pay five, ten, perhaps twenty dollars per expansion or quest area?</p><p>I dunno... twenty five cents per piece of gear is pretty dang generous.  Considering how much I upgrade my gear... I can get away with paying probably less than a sub and still stay in the game with next to no problem.  I'd probably even save 50%, if not more.</p></blockquote><p>Why do you compare EQ2 to Lotro in the first place, since the person you're responding to didn't even mention that ?</p><p>The point is that anyone coming back to the game ( rememeber the stupid come back emails SOE sent recently ? ) won't start oaying straight away, will see they can login yes, but can't play at all without gear ( doh ) and leave again , which has already happened.</p><p>Now, perhaps you should for once think ( hard I know ... ) </p><p>at lvl 90 you swap legendary and fabled almost daily. There is a ton of equipment and you can never know when it drops, All instances drop gear, then you get the lucky outland drops ( yes fabled equipment drops from normal mobs as well ).</p><p>Then you get 2 x2 zones and you get all the EM, HM, Drunder EM. The point is you'll pay for those all the time. Is that fair ? maybe it is, if you play silver and get a drop yeah you should pay to unlock.</p><p>But the point here is , people coming back, with their gear and they discover they have to pay to play for free ? That is not going down well, is it ? Can you compare the 2 ? NO.</p><p>Get it now ?</p></blockquote><p>Because what the heck else do I compare the model to?  Some imaginary non-existant thing?  Or complete and total "I don't have to pay a dime because I don't want to" free?  Drawing a comparison requires that you do just that... have something to compare it to.  I think what i'm starting to see, though, is that people are not looking for substitutes.  They just want the restrictions to go away.</p><p>Ain't happening.</p><p>What i'm recommending is that people take a look at the model and, for every dollar they find that they can remove, they add a dollar in somewhere else.  You can't just cut and slash until there is nothing left but, "I can play the game without paying a dime now."</p>

gourdon
01-03-2012, 08:56 AM
<p><cite>Soldancer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Banedon_Toran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><cite></cite>The problem is the number of returning players who are at that level 85-90/start of DoV point, well I'm sorry but the recommendation would be to go for the gold subscription.</blockquote><p>If I would be willing to pay a monthly fee I would play SWToR. I played EQ2 since launch and had lot of fun over the years, but over the time I lost much interest in playing (main reason was because they totaly ruined the mage archetype with all the immunities, makes no sense to play my coercer anymore).</p><p>With F2P it's nice to play sometimes, I started fresh with an Inqui, and I would also buy some unlockers for fabled parts but never for legendary. It would become too expensive for me and would cost same as gold. For a healthy population it would be better for SOE to let players like me play with legendary on silver. I payed several hundred bucks over the years for EQ2, that's more than the price of lifetime subscriptions of other games. They should at least unlock legendary for silver for those accounts which were active longer than 5 years or so.</p></blockquote><p>Paying hundreds of dollars up front when a game is new and might not turn out is completely different than paying the same amount over years.  You didn't take the risk that you were sinking hundreds of dollars into a game that wouldn't be supported beyond the initial content.  You're entitled to nothing and it sounds like you're dead weight asking for a handout.</p>

Soldancer
01-03-2012, 09:15 AM
<p><cite>gourdon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Paying hundreds of dollars up front when a game is new and might not turn out is completely different than paying the same amount over years.</p></blockquote><p>Oh please. A lifetime subscription of e.g. Star Trek or LoTRO was ~200 $ while I have paid ~600 € für EQ2 (+ the money for X-Packs). I think I deserve it to get legendary on silver.</p>

Michayla
01-03-2012, 09:17 AM
<p><cite>Soldancer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Banedon_Toran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><cite></cite>The problem is the number of returning players who are at that level 85-90/start of DoV point, well I'm sorry but the recommendation would be to go for the gold subscription.</blockquote><p>If I would be willing to pay a monthly fee I would play SWToR. I played EQ2 since launch and had lot of fun over the years, but over the time I lost much interest in playing (main reason was because they totaly ruined the mage archetype with all the immunities, makes no sense to play my coercer anymore).</p><p>With F2P it's nice to play sometimes, I started fresh with an Inqui, and I would also buy some unlockers for fabled parts but never for legendary. It would become too expensive for me and would cost same as gold. For a healthy population it would be better for SOE to let players like me play with legendary on silver. I payed several hundred bucks over the years for EQ2, that's more than the price of lifetime subscriptions of other games. They should at least unlock legendary for silver for those accounts which were active longer than 5 years or so.</p></blockquote><p>Why should SoE reward you for quitting? Or, why should SoE reward you because you refuse to cough up a monthly subscription?</p>

Soldancer
01-03-2012, 09:56 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why should SoE reward you for quitting? Or, why should SoE reward you because you refuse to cough up a monthly subscription?</p></blockquote><p>I never quitted. I made several longer breaks what is normal for an 8 year old game. It's just an economic question for me: ATM I can't / won't pay a monthly fee. And I think that veterans with an accout age of > 5 years should get some extra. Maybe a special unlocker with unlimited charges for 500 SC or something like that. Come on SOE, give us veterans a little reward for encouraging to not play SWToR.</p>

Griffildur
01-03-2012, 10:07 AM
<p>The swtor discussion is getting old already.</p><p>Some months ago it was Rift, before that something else. </p><p>If you want to play eq2 then play it. if you want swtor then play it. Either way stop using any flavour of the month game to justify anything really.</p>

Griffildur
01-03-2012, 10:10 AM
<p><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Because what the heck else do I compare the model to?  Some imaginary non-existant thing?  Or complete and total "I don't have to pay a dime because I don't want to" free?  Drawing a comparison requires that you do just that... have something to compare it to.  I think what i'm starting to see, though, is that people are not looking for substitutes.  They just want the restrictions to go away.</p><p>Ain't happening.</p><p>What i'm recommending is that people take a look at the model and, for every dollar they find that they can remove, they add a dollar in somewhere else.  You can't just cut and slash until there is nothing left but, "I can play the game without paying a dime now."</p></blockquote><p>I am starting to think you don't want to understand anything. Lotro is not an 8 year old game. Eq2 is one of the longest around and it's only turned out f2p recently.</p><p>All it was pointed before is to allow old account to use what they have already . Do you understand that ? From an economical point of view, you can't send out thousands of emails asking people to come try f2p but then expect them to pay before they can try anything.</p><p>I don't know how much simpler I can put it. If you still don't get it, do everyone a favour and stop posting on this subject. Stick to stuff you know and can understand.</p>

Peogia
01-03-2012, 10:35 AM
<p><cite>Soldancer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why should SoE reward you for quitting? Or, why should SoE reward you because you refuse to cough up a monthly subscription?</p></blockquote><p>I never quitted. I made several longer breaks what is normal for an 8 year old game. It's just an economic question for me: ATM I can't / won't pay a monthly fee. And I think that veterans with an accout age of > 5 years should get some extra. Maybe a special unlocker with unlimited charges for 500 SC or something like that. Come on SOE, give us veterans a little reward for encouraging to not play SWToR.</p></blockquote><p>Forget the veteran part I'm a veteran and I'm not looking for free hand outs your not seeing the bigger picture Sony says this is free to play so why are we all being forced to pay to play? because its not free to play its just a modified trial account other companies have similar trials, I certainly would never call this game free to play as its most definitely not every single part of the game costs $$$ item/gear/appearance, content, up dates, features, expansions, gameplay and hot fixes</p>

Griffildur
01-03-2012, 10:43 AM
<p><cite>Peogia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Forget the veteran part I'm a veteran and I'm not looking for free hand outs your not seeing the bigger picture Sony says this is free to play so why are we all being forced to pay to play? because its not free to play its just a modified trial account other companies have similar trials, I certainly would never call this game free to play as its most definitely not every single part of the game costs $$$ item/gear/appearance, content, up dates, features, expansions, gameplay and hot fixes</p></blockquote><p>You have zero credibility, this not a discussion about buying a potion on the sc that makes you 90 instantly.</p><p>You don't even know what you're tlaking about from thread to thread as you contradict even yourself.</p><p>As for you being a veteran ... don't make me laugh</p>

Guy De Alsace
01-03-2012, 10:06 PM
<p>I have no problem at all with unlockers. Its a great idea and they are priced competitively.</p><p>What I totally object to is SOE altering the game to require you to buy unlockers. The game should have continued on the same path of loot rarity it had followed in the past instead of blatantly making so many things legendary.</p><p>Due to this we now have many toons at 60-70+ that are basically untouchable. My 75 Paladin is legendary/fabled out purely from random drops in KP & Fens. I have done maybe 1% groups up to this point. He's a sub. My three silver accounts have unlocked the fabled only since legendary drops so often it would be ruinous to unlock everything.</p><p>Thats just ludicrous. If it was endgame there would be uproar from the community. It's ruining the feel of the game when you go "oh look..another exquisite chest. Yawn."</p><p>Get back to the path you were on. By all means leave unlockers in. In fact, double or triple the price of unlockers but make the legendary and fabled gear rarer. At the moment its just bordering on laughable in Kunark.</p><p>So IMO:</p><ul><li>Silver accounts should be able to equip legendary but quadruple the price of a silver account.</li><li>Put treasured loot options in DoV so there is actually a point to buying it if you are F2P.</li><li>Rollback the smorgasbord of legendary and fabled dropping like candy and triple/quadruple the price of unlockers.</li></ul>

Peogia
01-03-2012, 11:41 PM
<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have no problem at all with unlockers. Its a great idea and they are priced competitively.</p></blockquote><p>Gameplay gear unlockers priced competitively? Would you mind posting 10 mmorpgs that charge you to put the gear required to the play game on your back for a competitive price? because I have never seen this before anywhere</p>

Crismorn
01-04-2012, 03:50 AM
<p>You have a ton of players paying you $30 for an entire year of eq2, might as well drop all subs and increase the nickel and diming.</p>

Felshades
01-04-2012, 04:17 AM
<p>I do gotta ask though.</p><p>My inq is AA capped for the expansion she has(250). Her AA slider is STILL locked at 50. She's 85.</p><p>She's essentially getting HALF the exp she SHOULD be getting, because when you're AA or level capped, the slider moves to 100% normally.</p><p>So why the crab are they shafting silver accounts out of xp when they're capped in some way? She ain't gaining AA. I'm grinding her xp to 90 because quests are a waste of AA when she's moved to my other account.</p><p>What gives? If there's a crappy restriction, that's it.</p>

Soulcharmer
01-04-2012, 05:31 AM
<p>I was shaking my head yesterday listening to the whining  in chat  from people complaining about not getting enough free stuff and saw this thread so had to comment.</p><p>People are very blinkered  when it comes to not getting what they want.</p><p>Old way: Pay a subscription and play game fully.</p><p>Choose to unsubscribe, get nada, you don't get to play, perfectly normal and fair.</p><p>New way: Pay a subscription and play game fully.</p><p>Choose to not subscribe, still get to play game, just with many restrictions, stills seems pretty fair to me.</p><p>What exactly do people expect for nothing?</p><p>As I see it we are better off now than before.</p><p>The whole issue of having to pay for unlocks to use items you used to have is a non argument, its simple, subscribe and you have everything.</p><p>If you want to have something more than f2p provides without actually subscribing you are going to have to pay somehow to compensate for that fact, its just common sense.</p><p>People have become so greedy, they want to avoid paying anything, but still want everything they used to pay for.</p><p>Its typical with anything free these days, rather than be happy with all they are geting for nothing all many people do is complain about what they can't have, pretty unreasonable imo.</p><p>People seem to think when a game adds f2p they should carry on as normal, just not pay anymore, thats not how reality works :p</p><p>In the end if something is so important for you to have, then pay for it, either by subscribing or via micro transactions, don't expect handouts.</p>

General_Info
01-04-2012, 09:20 AM
<p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do gotta ask though.</p><p>My inq is AA capped for the expansion she has(250). Her AA slider is STILL locked at 50. She's 85.</p><p>She's essentially getting HALF the exp she SHOULD be getting, because when you're AA or level capped, the slider moves to 100% normally.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">So why the crab are they shafting silver accounts out of xp when they're capped in some way?</span> She ain't gaining AA. I'm grinding her xp to 90 because quests are a waste of AA when she's moved to my other account.</p><p>What gives? If there's a crappy restriction, that's it.</p></blockquote><p>If you want control over the AA slider then cough up $15/month and get additional benifits too instead of only paying $5/month.</p><p>The more people complain about the restrictions the more you are telling SOE that their tactics are working.</p>

urgthock
01-04-2012, 11:13 AM
<p><cite>Soulcharmer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>Its typical with anything free these days, rather than be happy with all they are geting for nothing all many people do is complain about what they can't have, pretty unreasonable imo.</strong></p></blockquote><p>This is the crux of the issue. Too many people are completely blinded to the fact that they have been given the ability to play the game without paying a sub which is a <strong>HUGE </strong>"bonus" and instead concentrate on the fact that there are certain restrictions to playing the game without paying a sub and want those restrictions removed. I am not really sure why those who are complaining think that they have a valid argument. Maybe because it's a game they are dealing with instead of something more tangible?</p>

Serelinde
01-08-2012, 05:40 PM
<p><cite>Katz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><blockquote><p>They should look at how Lotro does it.  They manage to make loads of money without limiting it so much people won't even give it a go.</p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Thank you, thank you, thank you, I can't thank you enough.</p><p>As a return player, I paid for the unlockers. Cool! What I can't seem to find a way to pay for is the ability to use MAIL which is stupid as heck to not be able to do, and the ability to buy even one set of five slots or something like that to use on Broker and sell things.  One thing that is fun is crafting. I'm in f2p not because I want to be, but because I'm broke and need to eat, but missed my game.  Which means I'd pay a sub again once I have funds, just isn't now. </p><p>Is there a way I'm not seeing to buy use of the mailbox and some slots on Broker?  LOTRO allows f2p to use mail, allows them to purchase auction house slots to use, allows them also to KEEP the gear they earned when they were paying. They aren't suddenly left out in the cold to pay twice for the same thing.  It's also why so far when we have money, that's the game that gets my $15 a month sub fee.  Right now, I can't see why I'd do that with EQii no matter how much I loved it. Because I know, when hard times hit again, I can't use my stuff again and have to pay out the nose all over again. Who wants to bother paying multiple times for the use of the same thing? </p><p>"<span style="background-color: #000000; color: #d2c5a9; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">The more people complain about the restrictions the more you are telling SOE that their tactics are working."</span></p><p>What they aren't counting on is that it cuts into return players.  Players who feel a game doesn't give a crap about what they have worked for won't return to pay that fee. Heck, my 14 day free trial when I first tried the game AGES ago gave me what felt like more abilities than this does. There are reasons I bough it to begin with in 2008.</p><p>Edit: I did find unlockers for Broker, but it reads like per item. I'll have to check that out. </p>

Dytherian
01-08-2012, 06:12 PM
<p>F2P is a proven viable business model. However it functions best when the player is not under extreme restrictions and does not feel they are nickel and dimed to death.  Unfortunately sony has failed in creating a well rounded system.   If Sony wants to turn a higher profit out of eq2 they need to not only implement a system that flows well with players but address targeting and basic UI issues that are not up to todays mmo standards.  Get the basics fixed first, implement a non intrusive but profitable f2p store and then advertise to get some new blood here.  If not then they will just have to be happy selling to the die hard fanbois.</p>

Armawk
01-08-2012, 06:35 PM
<p>There are a couple of things that I think would be sensible to add as SC purchaseables (mail, coin space, one shot AA unlocks) as I think the F2P model should be based on there not being anything you simply can not do without going the sub route. The producer seems to have the same overall view so I would hope to see those things at some point.</p><p>Generally I think it is pretty fair other than that. I can however see a case for an 'auto unlock' function of sorts, such that if you EQUIP gear while gold it gets unlock flagged so that when you drop to silver you dont lose it. Wouldnt probably hit income hard, and would make lots of happy players.</p><p>I also flatly think that the main run of quested gear in Velious should not ever ever ever be legendary. As it stands right now if you buy the expansion as silver you cannot play it at all without buying unlockers, as even the first quest areas require the gear they drop very quickly indeed or become impossible. The alternative would be for the velious expansion to come with a pack of 25 unlockers or something.</p>

Michayla
01-08-2012, 07:04 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Generally I think it is pretty fair other than that. I can however see a case for an 'auto unlock' function of sorts, such that if you EQUIP gear while gold it gets unlock flagged so that when you drop to silver you dont lose it. Wouldnt probably hit income hard, and would make lots of happy players.</p></blockquote><p>How is that going to stop players from paying 15 dollars for one month to run zones, get upgrades, and drop back down to silver?</p><p>You say it won't hit income hard, but it will.</p>

General_Info
01-08-2012, 10:22 PM
<p><cite>Serelinde wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Is there a way I'm not seeing to buy use of the mailbox and some slots on Broker?  LOTRO allows f2p to use mail, allows them to purchase auction house slots to use, allows them also to KEEP the gear they earned when they were paying. They aren't suddenly left out in the cold to pay twice for the same thing.  It's also why so far when we have money, that's the game that gets my $15 a month sub fee.  Right now, I can't see why I'd do that with EQii no matter how much I loved it. Because I know, when hard times hit again, I can't use my stuff again and have to pay out the nose all over again. Who wants to bother paying multiple times for the use of the same thing? <p>"<span style="background-color: #000000; font-family: verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: #d2c5a9;">The more people complain about the restrictions the more you are telling SOE that their tactics are working."</span></p></blockquote><p>Except in LOTRO if you want decent leveling and access to zones you have to pay for it. honestly you are complaining about spending $5 once to get silver to remove some restrictions all the while you have full access up to sentinel's fate and your leveling is unaffected regardless if you own DoV or AoD.</p><p>be thankful you can even login would you rather a F2P game that you can play if you are lucky enough to click login at the exact moment the server is a few units short of capacity (with the AFK kick code removed so you cant get decent openings) and the only NORMAL way to login on a busy server is to pay $15.</p><p>try out silkroad you'll see that putting $15/month into EQ2 is far worth it compared to the "skin and bone" silkroad is.</p><p>pay to maintain the game and run without any restrictions or play like a penny pincher and complain that you are entitled to every feature without doing anything to deserve it.</p><p>Your line of thinking is if someone you know in retail gets an employee discount when shopping where they work that <em>you </em>should get the discount also because you shop there.</p><p>also ether way i dont care if you've been paying for EQ2 for years and now you dont want to pay or not. you are renting all those features that silver and free accounts lack that gold has when you subscribe.</p>

Crismorn
01-08-2012, 10:46 PM
<p>Why would anyone pay $15 a month when you could have paid $30 for an entire year.</p><p>SoE should just forget about subs altogether, remove restritions altogether and just add tons of useful items to the cash store and make their money that way, relying on subs when a large portion of your playerbase is currently paying $3 per months is not going to cut it.</p>

Felshades
01-08-2012, 10:55 PM
<p><cite>General_Info wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do gotta ask though.</p><p>My inq is AA capped for the expansion she has(250). Her AA slider is STILL locked at 50. She's 85.</p><p>She's essentially getting HALF the exp she SHOULD be getting, because when you're AA or level capped, the slider moves to 100% normally.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">So why the crab are they shafting silver accounts out of xp when they're capped in some way?</span> She ain't gaining AA. I'm grinding her xp to 90 because quests are a waste of AA when she's moved to my other account.</p><p>What gives? If there's a crappy restriction, that's it.</p></blockquote><p>If you want control over the AA slider then cough up $15/month and get additional benifits too instead of only paying $5/month.</p><p>The more people complain about the restrictions the more you are telling SOE that their tactics are working.</p></blockquote><p>Even when one has control of the slider, it slides the entire way to 100% you want it to or not when level capped, without aa cap, or to 0% when AA capped and not level capped.</p><p>And I have a gold account. And I'm moving that inq to said gold account.</p><p>Making it so that someone who caps out is only getting 50 xp per mob in one thing instead of 50 in two or 100 in one, is the worst thing I've ever heard.</p>

Felshades
01-08-2012, 10:56 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why would anyone pay $15 a month when you could have paid $30 for an entire year.</p><p>SoE should just forget about subs altogether, remove restritions altogether and just add tons of useful items to the cash store and make their money that way, relying on subs when a large portion of your playerbase is currently paying $3 per months is not going to cut it.</p></blockquote><p>Because that doesn't count as a recurring subscription, and game cards(which is what those were counted as) can't do certain things.</p>

Ogremindes
01-09-2012, 01:02 AM
<p>Silver = Thanks for the money, now get lost.</p><p>That is what I feel the game is telling me through the sheer level of obnoxiousness that's thrown at me as I play.</p><p>Now, I'm gonna say a monthly subscription simply isn't for me. I know my foibles well well enough to know that "I have to play this game or I'm wasting my money" is a bad idea comparable to experimenting with hard drugs. But I do spend money on the MMOs I play, and in dual-model MMOs I've invariably spent more than I would have had I subscribed for the period in which I played. If this remains true for Everquest 2 it'll be because I spent the money for Silver and am already fed up at being treated like a mark rather than a customer.</p><p>Chief aggravations:</p><ol><li>Pop up ads. Sleazy and obnoxious from the minute they were invented, and being in-game doesn't make them any better. This is the least of my aggravations, and this alone was enough to make me resolve to not spend any more money.</li><li>Equipment restrictions. As far as I've seen: "Want to use that quest reward you've just spent an hour earning? Give us a buck fifty." This is horrible and should be gotten rid of (or at least replaced with a purchasable account wide unlock)</li><li>As above, but for spells.</li></ol><p>In all seriousness, treating people who have shown the willingness and capability to buy from your cash shop in this way seems like a bad move. Is angering your customers really likely to convert them to subscribers?</p><p>Anyway, this seems like a great game, shame the suits have smeared... obnoxiousness all over it. For now, maybe I'll go play CO for a bit. I've bought a couple of new costume sets and haven't played with them yet...</p>

Michayla
01-09-2012, 01:08 AM
<p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why would anyone pay $15 a month when you could have paid $30 for an entire year.</p><p>SoE should just forget about subs altogether, remove restritions altogether and just add tons of useful items to the cash store and make their money that way, relying on subs when a large portion of your playerbase is currently paying $3 per months is not going to cut it.</p></blockquote><p>Because that doesn't count as a recurring subscription, and game cards(which is what those were counted as) can't do certain things.</p></blockquote><p>And what things can a silver account do that a game card subscription account can't do?</p>

Felshades
01-09-2012, 01:28 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why would anyone pay $15 a month when you could have paid $30 for an entire year.</p><p>SoE should just forget about subs altogether, remove restritions altogether and just add tons of useful items to the cash store and make their money that way, relying on subs when a large portion of your playerbase is currently paying $3 per months is not going to cut it.</p></blockquote><p>Because that doesn't count as a recurring subscription, and game cards(which is what those were counted as) can't do certain things.</p></blockquote><p>And what things can a silver account do that a game card subscription account can't do?</p></blockquote><p>I'm referring to the guy saying that paying monthly is dumb when you could pay 30 for the entire year when the triple station cash was there.</p><p>I didn't do it because a) I like 500 station cash monthly, b) I want to be able to buy transfer tokens without having to call and deal with CS(THANK YOU JOSHUA) and c) I want to be able to gift items.</p><p>THAT is why someone would pay 15 a month when they could have paid 30 for a year... because that year paid for 30 doesn't count as a recurring subscription via credit card. Game card payments do not count for those three things.</p><p>Had nothing to do with the restrictions. He also acts like everyone did it, and everyone knew about it, and that it can be done right now for new people. Just because HE did it when he could, doesn't mean anyone else can do it NOW, so his argument about people paying only 3 bucks a month is invalid because that was a one or two day deal that quite a few didn't know about and does not affect anyone that starts up after it ended.</p>

Meditatious
01-09-2012, 01:38 AM
<p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I didn't do it because a) I like 500 station cash monthly, b) I want to be able to buy transfer tokens without having to call and deal with CS(THANK YOU JOSHUA) and c) I want to be able to gift items.</p></blockquote><p>In my opinion, it's asinine that those restrictions are in place on long term non-recurring subscriptions.</p><p>My account has existed since <em>1999</em>, and I've paid SOE many thousands of dollars over the years.  I can't but a transfer token why, exactly?</p>

Lthena
01-09-2012, 01:40 AM
<p>As others have already stated, it costs money to run a MMO.</p><p>The idea is that free players WILL end up spending some money if they continue playing the game. Why? People who continue playing will feel that they like the game and are willing to unlock some of the features by paying extra.</p><p>The free to play system also allows players looking for a new MMO to test out the game without a lot of the limitations other 'free trials' have.</p><p>Lastly, many players will not understand the limitations of being a free player until they have played too long, to realize 'uh oh, I think I DO need to unlock this and this to have a more enjoyable time."</p><p>Dozens of players I have met tried the game under Free to Play and then decided to go Gold later on. I have also seen many players create 2nd (or 3rd) accounts and then later pay to make them gold.</p>

Serelinde
01-09-2012, 01:40 AM
<p><cite>General_Info wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Except in LOTRO if you want decent leveling and access to zones you have to pay for it. honestly you are complaining about spending $5 once to get silver to remove some restrictions all the while you have full access up to sentinel's fate and your leveling is unaffected regardless if you own DoV or AoD.</p><p>be thankful you can even login would you rather a F2P game that you can play if you are lucky enough to click login at the exact moment the server is a few units short of capacity (with the AFK kick code removed so you cant get decent openings) and the only NORMAL way to login on a busy server is to pay $15.</p><p>try out silkroad you'll see that putting $15/month into EQ2 is far worth it compared to the "skin and bone" silkroad is.</p><p>pay to maintain the game and run without any restrictions or play like a penny pincher and complain that you are entitled to every feature without doing anything to deserve it.</p><p>Your line of thinking is if someone you know in retail gets an employee discount when shopping where they work that <em>you </em>should get the discount also because you shop there.</p><p>also ether way i dont care if you've been paying for EQ2 for years and now you dont want to pay or not. you are renting all those features that silver and free accounts lack that gold has when you subscribe.</p></blockquote><p>I've had zero problem leveling in LOTRO because I do pay for monthlies at times when I can and I do use the points that I earn in game when I can't afford it to pay for other things that I need (auction space, quest packs, all of that.)  I've had no problem leveling, enjoying the game, feeling loyal to it and putting forth the cash when I can. </p><p>On here, I HAVE paid for silver (wasn't it $10 before?) and every single expansion released prior to this very latest one as it's been a very rough year and I haven't been able to afford it. I've paid for race/class packs and all of that as well. I also paid at times to log in just to talk to friends ($5 for 3 days just so I could talk to people) and paid for months when I could manage it to log in for a month and raid with people, and I've paid for unlocks, and paid for a lot of things in this game.  I'm not asking for free, I'm asking to not have to pay repeatedly for the same thing. And if you reread what I said, at this point I simply said I wanted better ways to pay for the ability to mail in game, to have auction slots (that I still have to check those out.) The game was fun. I do customer service every day (and oh do I hear people wanting stuff for free all the time) and so it's good to be able to relax and play something I used to love. Mind you, USED to love. They've apparently also changed the game so ridiculously much in this last year (I'm on a PVP server) that it's barely recognizable. So maybe I'm really not missing that much anymore. </p><p>What I like in LOTRO is knowing that if I pay for a month, when I log in the next month and can't afford it that I'm not going to have to pay just to have the gear I got while I did pay (If you want to play cost comparison we can) to be able to play. On PVE there might be a choice about gear, but in PVP you just get ganked.  They get you either way.  </p><p>Unfortunately, with the economics behind it, it comes down to one clear fact. Sony wanted players back.  They didn't really make the environment that welcoming to older players,  so when it comes to how I'll continue to spend my money, in general I'll probably go elsewhere.  That as a consumer is my choice. The least I can do is let the company know WHY players aren't that willing to pay.  It's a choice.  If they monitor forums they might as well understand what their consumers feel and think. </p><p>Now, constructive comments help a discussion. Others are just insulting. It's also not penny pinching if you just happen to not have the pennies.  That implies you have the cash and are just being miserly. In our case, we're just broke.  And just because I state my opinion here, or anyone states their opinions here on why they feel the game is or isn't worth their hard earned money doesn't mean people have to be insulting when they reply back. I understand your opinion. This is my opinion and as it relates to how I spend my money, I should be able to openly give it as well. And from personal experience, this game has less to offer the "free to play" and "silver" accounts than LOTRO. LOTRO gets players into the game by giving them more options and then they can decide later on if they want to put game points or money into the game. Most players, including myself, choose to pay instead when possibe, because it's a good game and I know I'll get return on my subscription. It'll be worth it for me to keep coming back.  </p><p>I almost feel I had more abilities and freedoms in the actual free to play model before the merge than after. I paid for silver then, but feel more restricted than ever. I can't even mail people. It's silly.  </p>

Firecracker
01-09-2012, 01:44 AM
<p><span ><p>I had one of my accounts go to free play and I was really surprise by all the armor I couldn't wear no more. I do feel 'Legendary' should be part of the silver package though only because as a new player progress's the rewards generally seem be legendary. Other options are,</p><p>1) Make the item unlocks effect the actual slot instead of <span style="text-decoration: underline;">each piece of armor</span> you want to wear. or</p><p>2) Make the item unlocks be for a whole set armor slots, one for all the jewelry slots and one for the all the weapons/charms/secondary slots. The price for these need to be decent because the price per item unlock is a bit steep considering how often you out grow your armor. I feel this idea would be more profitable in long run.</p><p>3) Add a permanent unlock for each individual slot or even for spells too?</p></span></p>

Serelinde
01-09-2012, 01:59 AM
<p><cite>Cinnimon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I had one of my accounts go to free play and I was really surprise by all the armor I couldn't wear no more. I do feel 'Legendary' should be part of the silver package though only because as a new player progress's the rewards generally seem be legendary. Other options are,</p><p>1) Make the item unlocks effect the actual slot instead of <span style="text-decoration: underline;">each piece of armor</span> you want to wear. or</p><p>2) Make the item unlocks be for a whole set armor slots, one for all the jewelry slots and one for the all the weapons/charms/secondary slots. The price for these need to be decent because the price per item unlock is a bit steep considering how often you out grow your armor. I feel this idea would be more profitable in long run.</p><p>3) Add a permanent unlock for each individual slot or even for spells too?</p></blockquote><p>I did find a reason to work on my crafting, because on some toons Mastercraft gear is all they're going to get to wear. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I agree about effecting the slot, or per Tier of play or something. I'd understand per Tier. They'd still get their money and you'd still get your gear. I would not mind also having a Per Slot purchase rate so that if I spend money for unlocks, I'm not left with 3 slots I'm not using on one toon and then not enough money left in SC to buy the unlocks needed for another toon. I only needd 2 unlocks on one toon, but a whole set on another, so it hit uneven. I have 100 SC just sitting there and can't quite use it for anything I need. Trying to think of constructive ideas, as I said before. I don't want the game entirely for free. I'm willing to pay, just can't pay in large amounts like I used to. I wish I could. </p>

Felshades
01-09-2012, 02:06 AM
<p><cite>Serelinde wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cinnimon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I had one of my accounts go to free play and I was really surprise by all the armor I couldn't wear no more. I do feel 'Legendary' should be part of the silver package though only because as a new player progress's the rewards generally seem be legendary. Other options are,</p><p>1) Make the item unlocks effect the actual slot instead of <span style="text-decoration: underline;">each piece of armor</span> you want to wear. or</p><p>2) Make the item unlocks be for a whole set armor slots, one for all the jewelry slots and one for the all the weapons/charms/secondary slots. The price for these need to be decent because the price per item unlock is a bit steep considering how often you out grow your armor. I feel this idea would be more profitable in long run.</p><p>3) Add a permanent unlock for each individual slot or even for spells too?</p></blockquote><p>I did find a reason to work on my crafting, because on some toons Mastercraft gear is all they're going to get to wear. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />  I agree about effecting the slot, or per Tier of play or something. I'd understand per Tier. They'd still get their money and you'd still get your gear. I would not mind also having a Per Slot purchase rate so that if I spend money for unlocks, I'm not left with 3 slots I'm not using on one toon and then not enough money left in SC to buy the unlocks needed for another toon. I only needd 2 unlocks on one toon, but a whole set on another, so it hit uneven. I have 100 SC just sitting there and can't quite use it for anything I need. Trying to think of constructive ideas, as I said before. I don't want the game entirely for free. I'm willing to pay, just can't pay in large amounts like I used to. I wish I could. </p></blockquote><p>If they did that then they couldn't nickel and dime you every time you got a quest reward in velious.</p>

General_Info
01-09-2012, 02:18 AM
<p><cite>Serelinde wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Now, constructive comments help a discussion. Others are just insulting. It's also not penny pinching if you just happen to not have the pennies.  That implies you have the cash and are just being miserly. In our case, we're just broke.  And just because I state my opinion here, or anyone states their opinions here on why they feel the game is or isn't worth their hard earned money doesn't mean people have to be insulting when they reply back. I understand your opinion. This is my opinion and as it relates to how I spend my money, I should be able to openly give it as well. And from personal experience, this game has less to offer the "free to play" and "silver" accounts than LOTRO. LOTRO gets players into the game by giving them more options and then they can decide later on if they want to put game points or money into the game. Most players, including myself, choose to pay instead when possibe, because it's a good game and I know I'll get return on my subscription. It'll be worth it for me to keep coming back.  <p>I almost feel I had more abilities and freedoms in the actual free to play model before the merge than after. I paid for silver then, but feel more restricted than ever. I can't even mail people. It's silly.  </p></blockquote><p>SOE is interested in money so it is logical they would give you a reason to spend money on their game, if you dont pay for a sub you dont get the features. if you dont have the money to subscribe then it is your own misfortune.</p><p>You are just going to have live without the features subscribers have complaining about it wont change SOE's mind.</p><p>If you are so desperate to mail someone when they are offline ask them for their email address when they are online.</p>

FoulPEt
01-09-2012, 04:16 AM
<p>F2P IMHO means most of the content is open and some of the better content needs to be purchased. </p><p>95% of the game is gimped unless you can afford $200  a month? </p><p>If thats the way I read it then I would rather pay to play WoW.</p>

FoulPEt
01-09-2012, 04:25 AM
<p><cite>General_Info wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do gotta ask though.</p><p>My inq is AA capped for the expansion she has(250). Her AA slider is STILL locked at 50. She's 85.</p><p>She's essentially getting HALF the exp she SHOULD be getting, because when you're AA or level capped, the slider moves to 100% normally.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">So why the crab are they shafting silver accounts out of xp when they're capped in some way?</span> She ain't gaining AA. I'm grinding her xp to 90 because quests are a waste of AA when she's moved to my other account.</p><p>What gives? If there's a crappy restriction, that's it.</p></blockquote><p>If you want control over the AA slider then cough up $15/month and get additional benifits too instead of only paying $5/month.</p><p>The more people complain about the restrictions the more you are telling SOE that their tactics are working.</p></blockquote><p>How many spaces do you need between your sentences?</p><p>I don't expect everything free.  I wasn't the one that made it F2P they did.   But that being said at least F2P should limit yet give more content than they are allowing.  How many people are willing to put out $200 to play?  If you look at my join date you can see I returned to give it a chance.  My old account is gimped and I accept that.  To limit me to a few crappy races and classes doesn't give me a great feeling to want to pay to play again.</p>

Felshades
01-09-2012, 04:27 AM
<p>The only thing so far that's truely annoyed me, personally, is the slider thing.</p><p>Chugging along... kill something. It gives 100 exp. With the slider setting locked, I get 50 towards level and 50 towards aa.</p><p>I'm aa capped.</p><p>I'm getting 50 towards level and 50 just disappears into thin air.</p><p>Normally, if I AA cap before I level cap, my slider automatically moves to where I'm not setting ANYTHING towards AA. And don't give me the "if you want control over the slider" thing, because right now, on my AA capped but not level capped toons, I CANNOT MOVE THE SLIDER ANYWAYS ON A GOLD ACCOUNT EVEN.</p><p>Once I hit 320 AA, no matter what level I am, or level 90, regardless of how many AA I have, I CAN NOT CHANGE THE SLIDER POSITION. So being able to control moving that is a moot point.</p><p>The part that irritates me is that half of my xp per kill is vaporising into thin air. I've yet to see a f2p game that does that.</p>

Felshades
01-09-2012, 04:28 AM
<p><cite>FoulPEt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>General_Info wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do gotta ask though.</p><p>My inq is AA capped for the expansion she has(250). Her AA slider is STILL locked at 50. She's 85.</p><p>She's essentially getting HALF the exp she SHOULD be getting, because when you're AA or level capped, the slider moves to 100% normally.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">So why the crab are they shafting silver accounts out of xp when they're capped in some way?</span> She ain't gaining AA. I'm grinding her xp to 90 because quests are a waste of AA when she's moved to my other account.</p><p>What gives? If there's a crappy restriction, that's it.</p></blockquote><p>If you want control over the AA slider then cough up $15/month and get additional benifits too instead of only paying $5/month.</p><p>The more people complain about the restrictions the more you are telling SOE that their tactics are working.</p></blockquote><p>How many spaces do you need between your sentences?</p><p>I don't expect everything free.  I wasn't the one that made it F2P they did.   But that being said at least F2P should limit yet give more content than they are allowing.  How many people are willing to put out $200 to play?  If you look at my join date you can see I returned to give it a chance.  My old account is gimped and I accept that.  To limit me to a few crappy races and classes doesn't give me a great feeling to want to pay to play again.</p></blockquote><p>You need to put out 200 bucks to play?</p><p>Since when?</p><p>My silver account's gotten along just fine without paying for anything.</p>

Dreyco
01-09-2012, 04:30 AM
<p><cite>FoulPEt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>F2P IMHO means most of the content is open and some of the better content needs to be purchased. </p><p>95% of the game is gimped unless you can afford $200  a month? </p><p>If thats the way I read it then I would rather pay to play WoW.</p></blockquote><p>... 200 a month?  That's a serious exageration, heh.  The Legendary+ Gear unlockers are your biggest "I have to pay" thing, and they cost 1.50 per 5 charges.  That's not alot at all.</p>

Armawk
01-09-2012, 04:37 AM
<p><cite>FoulPEt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>F2P IMHO means most of the content is open and some of the better content needs to be purchased. </p><p>95% of the game is gimped unless you can afford $200  a month? </p><p>If thats the way I read it then I would rather pay to play WoW.</p></blockquote><p>Nope the game pre-velious is 90% available free. from that point on you are out about 10 bucks in unlockers if you want all velious content to be useable.</p>

FoulPEt
01-09-2012, 04:38 AM
<p>Not sure where I read $200.  Maybe it was a lifetime unlock.</p><p>Still think that gimping 95% of races and classes sux. I spent more on PS3 avatar items in a few months that a life time membership costs.</p><p>Paying for items seems a better idea than paying for the right to play.</p>

Armawk
01-09-2012, 04:46 AM
<p><cite>FoulPEt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Paying for items seems a better idea than paying for the right to play.</p></blockquote><p>Well thats why eq2 went for the 'all zones and dungeons and quests are free' approach right?</p>

FoulPEt
01-09-2012, 04:51 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>FoulPEt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Paying for items seems a better idea than paying for the right to play.</p></blockquote><p>Well thats why eq2 went for the 'all zones and dungeons and quests are free' approach right?</p></blockquote><p>Hmmmm  So far how is end game content with the limitations? </p><p>Heck at lvl 28 one of my toons already cant wear some items. </p><p>I was hoping to play some content I didn't have years ago like frogloks</p>

Ogremindes
01-09-2012, 05:09 AM
<p>As far as I can tell, the game is essentially unplayable past level 20 without either a monthly sub or being constantly nickle-and-dimed. For me, at least, the former is not an option. The latter is unequivocally obnoxious. Disappointing, the game up to 20 was fun, but at least it came up before I bought any of the expansions.</p><p>Downloading LOTRO now, I've heard good things about it and its silver equivalent seems to be not obnoxious at all.</p><p>Bye. It was a fun 40-or-so hours, but it doesn't look like I'll be back.</p>

Griffildur
01-09-2012, 06:02 AM
<p><cite>FoulPEt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>FoulPEt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Paying for items seems a better idea than paying for the right to play.</p></blockquote><p>Well thats why eq2 went for the 'all zones and dungeons and quests are free' approach right?</p></blockquote><p>Hmmmm  So far how is end game content with the limitations? </p><p>Heck at lvl 28 one of my toons already cant wear some items. </p><p>I was hoping to play some content I didn't have years ago like frogloks</p></blockquote><p>There is no no end game content for silver accounts. Soe doesn't mind 1-90 game, that is so quick these days that is irrelevant. The game at 90 however will hit you hard, first because no new player will learn to play their class by the time they are 90, without a lot of AA they are gimped anyway so lvl 90 really means nothing.</p><p>If you want to play the end game, you need 90, 280 AA minimum  ( good luck without the heroic end line ) and of course you need decent gear and there are many tiers of gear in Dov so if you go down the unlocker route you'll have a nasty shock when you change your gear every day.</p>

Griffildur
01-09-2012, 06:04 AM
<p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as I can tell, the game is essentially unplayable past level 20 without either a monthly sub or being constantly nickle-and-dimed. For me, at least, the former is not an option. The latter is unequivocally obnoxious. Disappointing, the game up to 20 was fun, but at least it came up before I bought any of the expansions.</p><p>Downloading LOTRO now, I've heard good things about it and its silver equivalent seems to be not obnoxious at all.</p><p>Bye. It was a fun 40-or-so hours, but it doesn't look like I'll be back.</p></blockquote><p>If you expect to play for free, any game then good luck with that wherever you go.</p><p>F2p does not exist unless you're happy killing your lvl 20 frogs until your game time is over.</p>

Ogremindes
01-09-2012, 06:16 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as I can tell, the game is essentially unplayable past level 20 without either a monthly sub or being constantly nickle-and-dimed. For me, at least, the former is not an option. The latter is unequivocally obnoxious. Disappointing, the game up to 20 was fun, but at least it came up before I bought any of the expansions.</p><p>Downloading LOTRO now, I've heard good things about it and its silver equivalent seems to be not obnoxious at all.</p><p>Bye. It was a fun 40-or-so hours, but it doesn't look like I'll be back.</p></blockquote><p>If you expect to play for free, any game then good luck with that wherever you go.</p><p>F2p does not exist unless you're happy killing your lvl 20 frogs until your game time is over.</p></blockquote><p>Oh, I don't. In fact, in other 'hybrid' model MMOs I've spent more than I would have as a subscriber for the time I played. I do expect to play without a monthly sub, and I only use the cash shop if I'm happy with the game.</p>

FoulPEt
01-09-2012, 06:28 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as I can tell, the game is essentially unplayable past level 20 without either a monthly sub or being constantly nickle-and-dimed. For me, at least, the former is not an option. The latter is unequivocally obnoxious. Disappointing, the game up to 20 was fun, but at least it came up before I bought any of the expansions.</p><p>Downloading LOTRO now, I've heard good things about it and its silver equivalent seems to be not obnoxious at all.</p><p>Bye. It was a fun 40-or-so hours, but it doesn't look like I'll be back.</p></blockquote><p>If you expect to play for free, any game then good luck with that wherever you go.</p><p>F2p does not exist unless you're happy killing your lvl 20 frogs until your game time is over.</p></blockquote><p>Yup, that's my point exactly.  However there are several F2P games in which I feel less gimped. ATM I'm Downloading DDO.</p><p>I played LotR and RoM for a bit.  Didn't like LotR but, RoM was ok. I just didn't like the leveling system and only 2 races.</p><p>There are to many choices of games out there for EQ2 to g!mp itself so badly. If they opened up a larger percent of the game I would be more willing to invest in a silver membership.  Limiting itself to a hand full of races and classes sux.</p><p> Even if F2P end game content is bad, if I were able to play a wide selection of toons they might get my cash eventually. As it stands now, why would anyone pay for anything other than a full membership?  If that's there goal and I am sure it is. Then coming back was pretty pointless. </p>

Griffildur
01-09-2012, 06:29 AM
<p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as I can tell, the game is essentially unplayable past level 20 without either a monthly sub or being constantly nickle-and-dimed. For me, at least, the former is not an option. The latter is unequivocally obnoxious. Disappointing, the game up to 20 was fun, but at least it came up before I bought any of the expansions.</p><p>Downloading LOTRO now, I've heard good things about it and its silver equivalent seems to be not obnoxious at all.</p><p>Bye. It was a fun 40-or-so hours, but it doesn't look like I'll be back.</p></blockquote><p>If you expect to play for free, any game then good luck with that wherever you go.</p><p>F2p does not exist unless you're happy killing your lvl 20 frogs until your game time is over.</p></blockquote><p>Oh, I don't. In fact, in other 'hybrid' model MMOs I've spent more than I would have as a subscriber for the time I played. I do expect to play without a monthly sub, and I only use the cash shop if I'm happy with the game.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah well, SOE is nly interested in your money, not quality or anything else at this point. This is why you see the huge "Give us money now " popups" and this is why ou cannot play for free whatever you do. Yeah you can be in and play irrelevant content without investing, but when you hit the lvl cap that's when the relevant content starts. Good luck playing that without spending cash.</p>

Griffildur
01-09-2012, 06:32 AM
<p><cite>FoulPEt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you expect to play for free, any game then good luck with that wherever you go.</p><p>F2p does not exist unless you're happy killing your lvl 20 frogs until your game time is over.</p></blockquote><p>Yup, that's my point exactly.  However there are several F2P games in which I feel less gimped. ATM I'm Downloading DDO.</p><p>I played LotR and RoM for a bit.  Didn't like LotR but, RoM was ok. I just didn't like the leveling system and only 2 races.</p><p>There are to many choices of games out there for EQ2 to g!mp itself so badly. If they opened up a larger percent of the game I would be more willing to invest in a silver membership.  Limiting itself to a hand full of races and classes sux.</p><p> Even if F2P end game content is bad, if I were able to play a wide selection of toons they might get my cash eventually. As it stands now, why would anyone pay for anything other than a full membership?  If that's there goal and I am sure it is. Then coming back was pretty pointless. </p></blockquote><p>I actually tried DDO. I don't know why but I just can't get myself into it. I tried loro as well, ditched it . i have Rom instaled on my hdd and I try it sometimes. But it just looks too cartoonish, its like you're playing another version of wow.</p><p>Plus at end game, you will need to spend anyway to get those nice weapons and armors with lots and lots of pluses and green stats.</p><p>Oh and the only reason you are even able to login is because some of us vets kicked a major fuss about returning players not being able to even login. Some fools sent coming back emails to vets but then you had to pay to even login lol. Can you imagine the sheer stupidity of it all ?</p><p>SOE is only after your money and they try to do get away with fixing nothing and doing nothing while they charge you.</p>

FoulPEt
01-09-2012, 06:48 AM
<p>BTW they also stated characters would be grandfathered in.  My Kerra Monk was unplayable so I Deleted it. I have yet to see my Ogre bard pop up since we are limited to how many toons we can play.  My Gnome Defiler and HE ShadowKnight were playable at least. However some items were not useable because they were legendary.</p><p>The only nice thing I found was coming back to some special welcome back items. So I have to say at least one good thing about them.</p>

Griffildur
01-09-2012, 06:50 AM
<p><cite>FoulPEt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>BTW they also stated characters would be grandfathered in.  My Kerra Monk was unplayable so I Deleted it. I have yet to see my Ogre bard pop up since we are limited to how many toons we can play.  My Gnome Defiler and HE ShadowKnight were playable at least. However some items were not useable because they were legendary.</p><p>The only nice thing I found was coming back to some special welcome back items. So I have to say at least one good thing about them.</p></blockquote><p>One thing you should never do is delete any characters. All our characters were grandfathered in. I know cause i had 7 of them. All you had to was contact CS if there was a problem and they would have fixed it for you.</p>

FoulPEt
01-09-2012, 07:00 AM
<p>It was low level so no big problem.  The reason seemed to be the race class combo.  It asked me to change both in a menu selection and I didn't want to.  So I nuked it.  Maybe when I come back in a few months/years SOE will have opened up more race/class combos then I will be more likely to play more.  As it stands now I have 1 toon I'll mess around with when I'm bored of playing other games.  I really wanted to play more races that were not avaliable when I played ages ago. I see little reason to F2P the original g!mp version of the game.</p>

Ogremindes
01-09-2012, 07:08 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as I can tell, the game is essentially unplayable past level 20 without either a monthly sub or being constantly nickle-and-dimed. For me, at least, the former is not an option. The latter is unequivocally obnoxious. Disappointing, the game up to 20 was fun, but at least it came up before I bought any of the expansions.</p><p>Downloading LOTRO now, I've heard good things about it and its silver equivalent seems to be not obnoxious at all.</p><p>Bye. It was a fun 40-or-so hours, but it doesn't look like I'll be back.</p></blockquote><p>If you expect to play for free, any game then good luck with that wherever you go.</p><p>F2p does not exist unless you're happy killing your lvl 20 frogs until your game time is over.</p></blockquote><p>Oh, I don't. In fact, in other 'hybrid' model MMOs I've spent more than I would have as a subscriber for the time I played. I do expect to play without a monthly sub, and I only use the cash shop if I'm happy with the game.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah well, SOE is nly interested in your money, not quality or anything else at this point. This is why you see the huge "Give us money now " popups" and this is why ou cannot play for free whatever you do. Yeah you can be in and play irrelevant content without investing, but when you hit the lvl cap that's when the relevant content starts. Good luck playing that without spending cash.</p></blockquote><p>Well, at least they're wearing their heart on their sleeve. And really, that's why I bothered posting instead of just walking. If I can help send the message that they're loosing potental custom, maybe it'll change to a form where I get to play someday.</p>

lstead
01-09-2012, 07:49 PM
<p>The problem with EQ2's model isn't that it's not really free. Of course it's not free, that's a silly red herring. Obviously they need to make money. Everyone understands that. Cash shop games are meant to be played by paying by cash shop items rather than by the month. Most companies find this actually increases revenue.</p><p>The real issue with EQ2's model is that it's not really playable via the cash shop at high levels, it's just a way to force you to subscribe. SOE has no faith in the F2P model other than as a way to push people to subscribe.</p><p>I went in to EQ2 and my gear had fallen off and that I could unlock, but the coin limit is less than some upgrades would cost. It's just not really possible for me to play under the cash shop. It got me interested in how other companies do it though, so I logged into LOTRO and I was able to play my character and there's not really a lot of hassle to doing so. So I started to play my character and in a very natural way I've bought a lot of content and items. In fact, in a month, they've managed to get more money out of me than a year of subscriptions. Now that's not just trivial things, I have enough upgrades and extra points to last for a good year and through the next expansion.</p><p>But really, it shows the power of treating players decently.</p>

Altom
01-09-2012, 08:46 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as I can tell, the game is essentially unplayable past level 20 without either a monthly sub or being constantly nickle-and-dimed. For me, at least, the former is not an option. The latter is unequivocally obnoxious. Disappointing, the game up to 20 was fun, but at least it came up before I bought any of the expansions.</p><p>Downloading LOTRO now, I've heard good things about it and its silver equivalent seems to be not obnoxious at all.</p><p>Bye. It was a fun 40-or-so hours, but it doesn't look like I'll be back.</p></blockquote><p>If you expect to play for free, any game then good luck with that wherever you go.</p><p>F2p does not exist unless you're happy killing your lvl 20 frogs until your game time is over.</p></blockquote><p>Oh, I don't. In fact, in other 'hybrid' model MMOs I've spent more than I would have as a subscriber for the time I played. I do expect to play without a monthly sub, and I only use the cash shop if I'm happy with the game.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #008000;">Yeah well, SOE is nly interested in your money, not quality or anything else at this point.</span> This is why you see the huge "Give us money now " popups" and this is why ou cannot play for free whatever you do. Yeah you can be in and play irrelevant content without investing, but when you hit the lvl cap that's when the relevant content starts. Good luck playing that without spending cash.</p></blockquote><p>Thing is, why would I want to spend money on something that I perceive as "low quality" in some sense or another?</p>

Peogia
01-10-2012, 04:28 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The problem with EQ2's model isn't that it's not really free. Of course it's not free, that's a silly red herring. Obviously they need to make money. Everyone understands that. Cash shop games are meant to be played by paying by cash shop items rather than by the month. Most companies find this actually increases revenue.</p><p>The real issue with EQ2's model is that it's not really playable via the cash shop at high levels, it's just a way to force you to subscribe. SOE has no faith in the F2P model other than as a way to push people to subscribe.</p><p>I went in to EQ2 and my gear had fallen off and that I could unlock, but the coin limit is less than some upgrades would cost. It's just not really possible for me to play under the cash shop. It got me interested in how other companies do it though, so I logged into LOTRO and I was able to play my character and there's not really a lot of hassle to doing so. So I started to play my character and in a very natural way I've bought a lot of content and items. In fact, in a month, they've managed to get more money out of me than a year of subscriptions. Now that's not just trivial things, I have enough upgrades and extra points to last for a good year and through the next expansion.</p><p>But really, it shows the power of treating players decently.</p></blockquote><p>There be more check out all these</p><p><a href="http://www.perfectworld.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.perfectworld.com/</a></p><p>They have never stripped me naked on login and demanded 2 grand to unlock ect</p><p>but yeah the cash shops in some be pricey</p>

General_Info
01-10-2012, 08:56 AM
<p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as I can tell, the game is essentially unplayable past level 20 without either a monthly sub or being constantly nickle-and-dimed. For me, at least, the former is not an option. The latter is unequivocally obnoxious. Disappointing, the game up to 20 was fun, but at least it came up before I bought any of the expansions.</p><p>Downloading LOTRO now, I've heard good things about it and its silver equivalent seems to be not obnoxious at all.</p><p>Bye. It was a fun 40-or-so hours, but it doesn't look like I'll be back.</p></blockquote><p>first off the game isn't "unplayable past level 20" for free accounts first get yourself in a guild which is new player friendly second ask around and see if anyone can make you some handcrafted or mastercrafted armor/weapons. if you are lacking on crafter type or another then invest in it yourself.</p><p>with a guild it is very easy to level crafter and keep yourself high enough to keep crafting yourself equipment to use when you adventure.</p><p>I craft my own armor and shields and the only thing i need made seperately is the occasional sword. as for food/drink i dont need any since i have another toon as a woodworker so i can make myself health/power regen and other totems.</p><p>EQ2 is very playable for a free account if you bother to do your research on it.</p>

Ogremindes
01-10-2012, 09:12 AM
<p><cite>General_Info wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as I can tell, the game is essentially unplayable past level 20 without either a monthly sub or being constantly nickle-and-dimed. For me, at least, the former is not an option. The latter is unequivocally obnoxious. Disappointing, the game up to 20 was fun, but at least it came up before I bought any of the expansions.</p><p>Downloading LOTRO now, I've heard good things about it and its silver equivalent seems to be not obnoxious at all.</p><p>Bye. It was a fun 40-or-so hours, but it doesn't look like I'll be back.</p></blockquote><p>first off the game isn't "unplayable past level 20" for free accounts first get yourself in a guild which is new player friendly second ask around and see if anyone can make you some handcrafted or mastercrafted armor/weapons. if you are lacking on crafter type or another then invest in it yourself.</p><p>with a guild it is very easy to level crafter and keep yourself high enough to keep crafting yourself equipment to use when you adventure.</p><p>I craft my own armor and shields and the only thing i need made seperately is the occasional sword. as for food/drink i dont need any since i have another toon as a woodworker so i can make myself health/power regen and other totems.</p><p>EQ2 is very playable for a free account if you bother to do your research on it.</p></blockquote><p>Sounds like a giant PITA, and there's too many great games around to put up with any BS.</p>

Griffildur
01-10-2012, 10:14 AM
<p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Sounds like a giant PITA, and there's too many great games around to put up with any BS.</p></blockquote><p>actually there's nothing worth playing anywhere. don't kid yourself</p>

General_Info
01-10-2012, 11:57 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Sounds like a giant PITA, and there's too many great games around to put up with any BS.</p></blockquote><p>actually there's nothing worth playing anywhere. don't kid yourself</p></blockquote><p>if he cant be bothered to get into a guild, craft some of his own stuff and ask someone else to craft him stuff then he probably wouldn't reach level 90 adventure anyway with or without gold.</p><p>being able to equip all kinds of rarity gear doesn't mean you'll always be running around in non-crafted armor. there are so many quests it is easy to loose track of which questlines you should be picking up on to get better quested gear.</p>

Enever
01-10-2012, 01:28 PM
<p>I am not trying ot stir the pot or anything I don't even want to insult the people who thought of this decision, it is feedback period. All I even asked for was the REVIEW THE GEAR LIMITATIONS. Not everything else. But alas, some people jump the gun.</p><p>I have a friend who used to play, coming back after a few months, and unable to pay the montly gold fee. They stopped playing two days after they came back citing they can't do anything they used to without payng money.</p><p>The entire idea of this trhead was for feedback reguarding the 'Free to play' gimmick. I hope a Dev can read this thread and see what people have to say about it.</p><p>I'm not saying get rid of -all- limitations, but the gear and other things that were brought ot my attention by an interesting player that had to send me a e-mail because they were unable to post on the actual forums due to them being free.</p><p>That's another example. Let me Copy my e-mail I got for all to read:</p><p>-------------------------------------------------------</p><p>Hi. I am sending this because apparently with Everquest II F2P <strong>one cannot even post to the forums</strong>. I have spent about 3-4 hours installing and trying out Everquest II, and will quit. I have played the excellent EVE Online (1 week F2P), LOTRO (1+ months F2P), Rift (2 weeks F2P), DeadFrontier (continued F2P) and other games before deciding to purchase/subscribe, and the F2P version of Everquest is such a joke. I don't want to subscribe.</p><ul><li>You can harvest all sorts of stuff that you can't sell, broker, craft with, or store. </li><li>There doesn't seem to be any way to make any money at the lowest levels - at level 5 or 6 I have managed a little over 1 gold, plus tons of stuff I cannot sell.</li><li>I don't see any of the early quests having any weapon upgrades at all, and the skills seem limited.</li><li>While I understand that fee to play requires restrictions (because money does need to be made), there are so many that the game is not fun or challenging (in a good way) and there is no reason to try to level up. It feels like you are required to at least purchase Silver to see what basics you can do. </li><li>I will say that I DO find the user interface flexibility excellent - the reason I took so long to get to level 5 was because I was setting up the hotkeys and such the way I like and those options were very good. The graphics are pretty, but the gameplay is just too limited to beanything other than intrusive and unenjoyable. </li></ul><p>What a waste of a perfectly good evening and what looks like it could have been a great game.PLEASE feel free to post this on my behalf so that the mods or devs or whoever see another fresh opinion. I am not going to purchase game time just to ask questions on the forum or to post this. Thanks!!-- ________________________________________Have a great day!-- ljbnomad / Leanomaa, level 5 EQ II</p>

ashnolo
01-10-2012, 01:54 PM
<p>FYI, I missed this at first too... The forums have a 72 hour wait from when you sign up to when you can post. You can post as a free player, but not for 72 horus after you register.</p>

Sedenten
01-10-2012, 03:01 PM
<p>I do not feel outright removing the gear restrictions to be the best suggestion here.  Rather, some of the content should be adjusted to take free-to-play into account.  Destiny of Velious basic quest gear really shouldn't all be legendary.  Yes, it is a significant step up from previous expansion but that has been the case for every single content expansion released to date.  Gear gets better, or people wouldn't play with the content.  That shouldn't be reason to completely do away with the treasured equipment tag in the later content.</p><p>Unfortunately, item tags have become less and less meaningful with each expansion.  Legendary gear used to mean the gear was exceptional.  It seems gear with a Treasured tag is currently the rarest type of item you find in the end game, which seems backwards.  </p><p>I would not be against simply changing the majority of Velious solo-quested gear from legendary tag to treasured tag.  The stats of that gear really isn't amazing when you consider the heroic instanced gear, so it shouldn't have the same quality tag for the same expansion.  Free-to-play folks would have a reason to actually purchase DoV and be able to enjoy some of the solo content.  If they delve into heroics, then they'll start getting gear that is worth purchasing unlockers for.  </p><p>For the record, I am not and never have been a free-to-play person.  I was against all RMT, but at this point understand that it is inevitable to keep today's MMO's floating.  The current restrictions make sense the way they are, but some of the itemization and content design choices do not.</p>

Felshades
01-10-2012, 03:37 PM
<p>Maybe they should only lock out fabled?</p><p>It would make it easier for the folks that bought DoV to not get the shock factor and such when quest rewards are only legendary and would allow people to use quest rewards before, like dungeon quest rewards and the end line for the zone rewards, and the cloud mount line.</p><p>Also, I'd like to see that cloud mount come "unlocked". You do a long quest series to get a cloud for a ground mount.. that's fabled and unusable.</p>

Peogia
01-10-2012, 04:24 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do not feel outright removing the gear restrictions to be the best suggestion here.  Rather, some of the content should be adjusted to take free-to-play into account.  Destiny of Velious basic quest gear really shouldn't all be legendary.  Yes, it is a significant step up from previous expansion but that has been the case for every single content expansion released to date.  Gear gets better, or people wouldn't play with the content.  That shouldn't be reason to completely do away with the treasured equipment tag in the later content.</p><p>Unfortunately, item tags have become less and less meaningful with each expansion.  Legendary gear used to mean the gear was exceptional.  It seems gear with a Treasured tag is currently the rarest type of item you find in the end game, which seems backwards.  </p><p>I would not be against simply changing the majority of Velious solo-quested gear from legendary tag to treasured tag.  The stats of that gear really isn't amazing when you consider the heroic instanced gear, so it shouldn't have the same quality tag for the same expansion.  Free-to-play folks would have a reason to actually purchase DoV and be able to enjoy some of the solo content.  If they delve into heroics, then they'll start getting gear that is worth purchasing unlockers for.  </p><p>For the record, I am not and never have been a free-to-play person.  I was against all RMT, but at this point understand that it is inevitable to keep today's MMO's floating.  The current restrictions make sense the way they are, but some of the itemization and content design choices do not.</p></blockquote><p><div><p><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe they should only lock out fabled?</p><p>It would make it easier for the folks that bought DoV to not get the shock factor and such when quest rewards are only legendary and would allow people to use quest rewards before, like dungeon quest rewards and the end line for the zone rewards, and the cloud mount line.</p><p>Also, I'd like to see that cloud mount come "unlocked". You do a long quest series to get a cloud for a ground mount.. that's fabled and unusable.</p><div></div></blockquote></div></p><p>Why is this game Advertised free to play<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" /> because you can play it like a bad trial? for free and not have any fun at all</p><p>You cannot play in DOV unless you purchase DOV, you cannot use anything in DOV unless you buy a trillion unlockers after forking out over $10,000 in order to play the game that was suppose to be free to play?</p><p>has anyone els ever heard of another company implementing free to play so stupidly<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I have heard of unlocking bag slots and bank slots and a ton of merchandise in cash shops in free to plays, but nickel and dimming the players to buy an unlocker for each spell or piece of gear in game to progress and play the game is far below the belt and isn't free to play</p><p>This free to play model would make a funny simpsons christmas special with scroog theme</p><p>If they wanna call this free to play then we shouldn't have to pay money in order to ware the clothes on our back that are required to play the game, that we either won in game a contest or looted quested ect in order to progress through game, fabled legendary ect shouldn't matter</p><p>If this is free to play why do we have to repurchase every single class and race in the game after purchasing the original Everquest II game to unlock these<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" /></p><p>If this is free to play why do we have to repurchase the fae and arasai races again after purchasing EOF exspasion<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" /></p><p>If this is free to play why do we have to repurchase Sarnak after buying kunark expansion<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" /></p><p>and the pop up browser every time when logging out of game is <strong>Intrusive</strong></p>

Crismorn
01-10-2012, 04:32 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why would anyone pay $15 a month when you could have paid $30 for an entire year.</p><p><strong>SoE should just forget about subs altogether, remove restritions altogether and just add tons of useful items to the cash store and make their money that way, relying on subs when a large portion of your playerbase is currently paying $3 per months is not going to cut it.</strong></p></blockquote>

Crismorn
01-10-2012, 04:34 PM
<p><cite>Lthena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As others have already stated, it costs money to run a MMO.</p><p>The idea is that <strong>free players WILL end up spending some money if they continue playing the game. Why? People who continue playing will feel that they like the game and are willing to unlock some of the features by paying extra.</strong></p><p>The free to play system also allows players looking for a new MMO to test out the game without a lot of the limitations other 'free trials' have.</p><p>Lastly, many players will not understand the limitations of being a free player until they have played too long, to realize 'uh oh, I think I DO need to unlock this and this to have a more enjoyable time."</p><p>Dozens of players I have met tried the game under Free to Play and then decided to go Gold later on. I have also seen many players create 2nd (or 3rd) accounts and then later pay to make them gold.</p></blockquote><p>Not if SoE puts useful items on the SC store like every single other proper ftp game, but how can we expect such intelligent decisions in a 7 year old game that recently moved over to ftp?</p>

Crismorn
01-10-2012, 04:43 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as I can tell, the game is essentially unplayable past level 20 without either a monthly sub or being constantly nickle-and-dimed. For me, at least, the former is not an option. The latter is unequivocally obnoxious. Disappointing, the game up to 20 was fun, but at least it came up before I bought any of the expansions.</p><p>Downloading LOTRO now, I've heard good things about it and its silver equivalent seems to be not obnoxious at all.</p><p>Bye. It was a fun 40-or-so hours, but it doesn't look like I'll be back.</p></blockquote><p>If you expect to play for free, any game then good luck with that wherever you go.</p><p>F2p does not exist unless you're happy killing your lvl 20 frogs until your game time is over.</p></blockquote><p>Completely untrue, many ftp games allow you to play the entire game for free without any restrictions, subs or penalties, these companies make their money from selling useful cash shop items ingame while also allowing their playerbase to trade the ingame currency as if it were plat to other players, all of their cash shop items can also be traded or sold ingame for ingame currency as well.</p>

yohann koldheart
01-10-2012, 05:05 PM
<p>the freeport server was up for a year, and had guilds that required you to be silver or bronze and they flourished. the limitations aren't bad at all. if you cant afford 1.50 for a 5 charge unlocker then you need to go play cards or something because your obviously to poor to be playing a mmo.</p><p>the unlocks are cheap as dirt, you can level to 90 and not use a single unlocker easily. when you buy dov then you will need to buy the unlocks.</p><p>its funny how all these returning players and new players think free to play means they should get everything free, you get up to  SF for free which is more then enough content to keep you busy .  my 13 year old has his own silver account with a 90 on it and can afford the unlocks with his 15 dollar a week allowance.  so really  claiming the restriction are to strict is just asinine.</p>

Griffildur
01-10-2012, 05:16 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as I can tell, the game is essentially unplayable past level 20 without either a monthly sub or being constantly nickle-and-dimed. For me, at least, the former is not an option. The latter is unequivocally obnoxious. Disappointing, the game up to 20 was fun, but at least it came up before I bought any of the expansions.</p><p>Downloading LOTRO now, I've heard good things about it and its silver equivalent seems to be not obnoxious at all.</p><p>Bye. It was a fun 40-or-so hours, but it doesn't look like I'll be back.</p></blockquote><p>If you expect to play for free, any game then good luck with that wherever you go.</p><p>F2p does not exist unless you're happy killing your lvl 20 frogs until your game time is over.</p></blockquote><p>Completely untrue, many ftp games allow you to play the entire game for free without any restrictions, subs or penalties, these companies make their money from selling useful cash shop items ingame while also allowing their playerbase to trade the ingame currency as if it were plat to other players, all of their cash shop items can also be traded or sold ingame for ingame currency as well.</p></blockquote><p>bs, there is not a single game where you can play for free, unless you're happy doing irrelevant content.</p><p>Please do tell one game where you can truly play for free.</p>

Crismorn
01-10-2012, 05:16 PM
<p>I like how people who have never played a ftp game try to discuss ftp payment structures.</p><p>You should do what I do when discussing topics I have zero knowledge of, don't do it~</p>

Griffildur
01-10-2012, 05:19 PM
<p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>the freeport server was up for a year, and had guilds that required you to be silver or bronze and they flourished. the limitations aren't bad at all. if you cant afford 1.50 for a 5 charge unlocker then you need to go play cards or something because your obviously to poor to be playing a mmo.</p><p>the unlocks are cheap as dirt, you can level to 90 and not use a single unlocker easily. when you buy dov then you will need to buy the unlocks.</p><p>its funny how all these returning players and new players think free to play means they should get everything free, you get up to  SF for free which is more then enough content to keep you busy .  my 13 year old has his own silver account with a 90 on it and can afford the unlocks with his 15 dollar a week allowance.  so really  claiming the restriction are to strict is just asinine.</p></blockquote><p>Instead of trying to be judgemental towards the vets who actually supported this game for years, perhaps you should try and understand our point of view. </p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">*let's keep insults out of the forums please*</span></p>

Griffildur
01-10-2012, 05:20 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I like how people who have never played a ftp game try to discuss ftp payment structures.</p><p>You should do what I do when discussing topics I have zero knowledge of, don't do it~</p></blockquote><p>I actually played several f2p games and I am not impressed by any of them : lotro, atlantica online, rom does that count as having knowledge ?</p><p>How about you shut it or answer the question I asked you above ?</p>

yohann koldheart
01-10-2012, 05:37 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I like how people who have never played a ftp game try to discuss ftp payment structures.</p><p>You should do what I do when discussing topics I have zero knowledge of, don't do it~</p></blockquote><p>who cares if i ever played a ft2 game, they are all not the same . this is how soe does this one and nothing is wrong with it.</p><p>this whole thread is nothing but a  "ur F2P isnt good enough i want MOAR MOAR free stuffs " thread</p>

yohann koldheart
01-10-2012, 05:39 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>the freeport server was up for a year, and had guilds that required you to be silver or bronze and they flourished. the limitations aren't bad at all. if you cant afford 1.50 for a 5 charge unlocker then you need to go play cards or something because your obviously to poor to be playing a mmo.</p><p>the unlocks are cheap as dirt, you can level to 90 and not use a single unlocker easily. when you buy dov then you will need to buy the unlocks.</p><p>its funny how all these returning players and new players think free to play means they should get everything free, you get up to  SF for free which is more then enough content to keep you busy .  my 13 year old has his own silver account with a 90 on it and can afford the unlocks with his 15 dollar a week allowance.  so really  claiming the restriction are to strict is just asinine.</p></blockquote><p>Instead of trying to be judgemental towards the vets who actually supported this game for years, perhaps you should try and understand our point of view. </p><p><span style="color: #ffff00; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">*let's keep insults out of the forums please*</span></p></blockquote><p>who cares how long ago people supported the game , i do understand the point of veiw and its nothing but a soe's free is not good enough point of veiw. </p><p> can you honestly sit there and say that 1.50 is to much for 5 unlockers ?   LOL</p>

Nrgy
01-10-2012, 05:47 PM
<p>I don't know why anyone is defending EQ2 and SOE's discision to move to this F2P model.  SOE, SJ and the EQ2 dev team have done a lot of bonehead things in the past year+, but this F2P model is by far the best thing they all have accomplished.  Defending this obviously good move for the game to people that can't be bothered to understand even the simplest of the basic concepts really don't need to stick around anyway.</p><p>EQ2 F2P model is by far the best F2P model out of any other mmo platform, beyond that the game content remains strong and fluid.  We, the players, don't always agree with the changes, but to be sure there is more and newer content ever time you turn around.  Cheers to SJ, SOQ and the Dev team.</p><p>This F2P model is the ONLY one that offers 90% of the gaming content at an exact cost of zero dollars.  I find it laughable that someone cannot make gold in the low levels, when I personally know people making plats, in the hundreds, in those same levels.  Gear restrictions might "seem" restrictive, but the game has recently been adjusted in the vast majority of that F2P content to allow even the lowest geared lowest DPS classes to excel in.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> EVE Online (1 week F2P), LOTRO (1+ months F2P), Rift (2 weeks F2P), DeadFrontier (continued F2P)  </span>Really?!? Comparing a 1 week, 2 week or 4 week trial is a weak Ssa argument when comparing to a 24/7/365 free gaming environment and what the heck is DeadFrontier, I'm less than impressed.</p><p>Playing a Trial of anything for 4 or 5 hours is immedaitely whinning rather than learning about it is troubling.  These are not the players we want to attract to this game anyways.</p>

Griffildur
01-10-2012, 05:57 PM
<p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>the freeport server was up for a year, and had guilds that required you to be silver or bronze and they flourished. the limitations aren't bad at all. if you cant afford 1.50 for a 5 charge unlocker then you need to go play cards or something because your obviously to poor to be playing a mmo.</p><p>the unlocks are cheap as dirt, you can level to 90 and not use a single unlocker easily. when you buy dov then you will need to buy the unlocks.</p><p>its funny how all these returning players and new players think free to play means they should get everything free, you get up to  SF for free which is more then enough content to keep you busy .  my 13 year old has his own silver account with a 90 on it and can afford the unlocks with his 15 dollar a week allowance.  so really  claiming the restriction are to strict is just asinine.</p></blockquote><p>Instead of trying to be judgemental towards the vets who actually supported this game for years, perhaps you should try and understand our point of view.</p><p><span style="color: #ffff00; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">*let's keep insults out of the forums please*</span></p></blockquote><p>who cares how long ago people supported the game , i do understand the point of veiw and its nothing but a soe's free is not good enough point of veiw. </p><p> can you honestly sit there and say that 1.50 is to much for 5 unlockers ?   LOL</p></blockquote><p>you obviously don't have a clue about dov <span style="color: #ffff00; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">*let's keep insults out of the forums please*</span></p>

Griffildur
01-10-2012, 06:02 PM
<p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I like how people who have never played a ftp game try to discuss ftp payment structures.</p><p>You should do what I do when discussing topics I have zero knowledge of, don't do it~</p></blockquote><p>who cares if i ever played a ft2 game, they are all not the same . this is how soe does this one and nothing is wrong with it.</p><p>this whole thread is nothing but a  "ur F2P isnt good enough i want MOAR MOAR free stuffs " thread</p></blockquote><p>What on earth are you arguing here ? You are trying to sell f2p to someone who was perfectly happy to continue on a sub and not have to deal with the bunch of whinning freeloaders ?</p><p>Think again.</p>

Crismorn
01-10-2012, 06:41 PM
<p>I'm at a disadvantage since I've actually played ftp games before and seen how its done properly.</p><p>One of you guys should create a thread on something you know about that I do not such as crafting, I'll play your role of discussing something I know nothing about while you try to explain to me something that I could not possibly understand without any firsthand knowledge.</p>

willnotuse
01-10-2012, 06:42 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>the freeport server was up for a year, and had guilds that required you to be silver or bronze and they flourished. the limitations aren't bad at all. if you cant afford 1.50 for a 5 charge unlocker then you need to go play cards or something because your obviously to poor to be playing a mmo.</p><p>the unlocks are cheap as dirt, you can level to 90 and not use a single unlocker easily. when you buy dov then you will need to buy the unlocks.</p><p>its funny how all these returning players and new players think free to play means they should get everything free, you get up to  SF for free which is more then enough content to keep you busy .  my 13 year old has his own silver account with a 90 on it and can afford the unlocks with his 15 dollar a week allowance.  so really  claiming the restriction are to strict is just asinine.</p></blockquote><p>Instead of trying to be judgemental towards the vets who actually supported this game for years, perhaps you should try and understand our point of view. Making judgements like that is a bit stupid.</p></blockquote><p>As is yours.</p>

willnotuse
01-10-2012, 06:43 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I like how people who have never played a ftp game try to discuss ftp payment structures.</p><p>You should do what I do when discussing topics I have zero knowledge of, don't do it~</p></blockquote><p>who cares if i ever played a ft2 game, they are all not the same . this is how soe does this one and nothing is wrong with it.</p><p>this whole thread is nothing but a  "ur F2P isnt good enough i want MOAR MOAR free stuffs " thread</p></blockquote><p>What on earth are you arguing here ? You are trying to sell f2p to someone who was perfectly happy to continue on a sub and not have to deal with the bunch of whinning freeloaders ?</p><p>Think again.</p></blockquote><p>I seem to remember you stating before it was announced that we would all go F2P that you would cancel your account and leave the game if it did.  Still waiting.</p>

Griffildur
01-10-2012, 07:52 PM
<p><cite>willnotuse wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I like how people who have never played a ftp game try to discuss ftp payment structures.</p><p>You should do what I do when discussing topics I have zero knowledge of, don't do it~</p></blockquote><p>who cares if i ever played a ft2 game, they are all not the same . this is how soe does this one and nothing is wrong with it.</p><p>this whole thread is nothing but a  "ur F2P isnt good enough i want MOAR MOAR free stuffs " thread</p></blockquote><p>What on earth are you arguing here ? You are trying to sell f2p to someone who was perfectly happy to continue on a sub and not have to deal with the bunch of whinning freeloaders ?</p><p>Think again.</p></blockquote><p>I seem to remember you stating before it was announced that we would all go F2P that you would cancel your account and leave the game if it did.  Still waiting.</p></blockquote><p>I did, the bought aod for 8 pounds.</p><p>not that is any of your concern . Anything else you'd like to know ?</p>

Michayla
01-10-2012, 08:45 PM
<p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>General_Info wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as I can tell, the game is essentially unplayable past level 20 without either a monthly sub or being constantly nickle-and-dimed. For me, at least, the former is not an option. The latter is unequivocally obnoxious. Disappointing, the game up to 20 was fun, but at least it came up before I bought any of the expansions.</p><p>Downloading LOTRO now, I've heard good things about it and its silver equivalent seems to be not obnoxious at all.</p><p>Bye. It was a fun 40-or-so hours, but it doesn't look like I'll be back.</p></blockquote><p>first off the game isn't "unplayable past level 20" for free accounts first get yourself in a guild which is new player friendly second ask around and see if anyone can make you some handcrafted or mastercrafted armor/weapons. if you are lacking on crafter type or another then invest in it yourself.</p><p>with a guild it is very easy to level crafter and keep yourself high enough to keep crafting yourself equipment to use when you adventure.</p><p>I craft my own armor and shields and the only thing i need made seperately is the occasional sword. as for food/drink i dont need any since i have another toon as a woodworker so i can make myself health/power regen and other totems.</p><p>EQ2 is very playable for a free account if you bother to do your research on it.</p></blockquote><p>Sounds like a giant PITA, and there's too many great games around to put up with any BS.</p></blockquote><p>Which part is a PITA? Joining a guild, making a few friends, crafting or D) All of the above?</p><p>Welcome to MMORPGs. Enjoy your stay.</p>

Michayla
01-10-2012, 08:48 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>the freeport server was up for a year, and had guilds that required you to be silver or bronze and they flourished. the limitations aren't bad at all. if you cant afford 1.50 for a 5 charge unlocker then you need to go play cards or something because your obviously to poor to be playing a mmo.</p><p>the unlocks are cheap as dirt, you can level to 90 and not use a single unlocker easily. when you buy dov then you will need to buy the unlocks.</p><p>its funny how all these returning players and new players think free to play means they should get everything free, you get up to  SF for free which is more then enough content to keep you busy .  my 13 year old has his own silver account with a 90 on it and can afford the unlocks with his 15 dollar a week allowance.  so really  claiming the restriction are to strict is just asinine.</p></blockquote><p>Instead of trying to be judgemental towards the vets who actually supported this game for years, perhaps you should try and understand our point of view. </p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">*let's keep insults out of the forums please*</span></p></blockquote><p>Are those vets <strong>still </strong>supporting the game? If not, why should their opinion matter? They quit.</p>

willnotuse
01-10-2012, 09:03 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>willnotuse wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I like how people who have never played a ftp game try to discuss ftp payment structures.</p><p>You should do what I do when discussing topics I have zero knowledge of, don't do it~</p></blockquote><p>who cares if i ever played a ft2 game, they are all not the same . this is how soe does this one and nothing is wrong with it.</p><p>this whole thread is nothing but a  "ur F2P isnt good enough i want MOAR MOAR free stuffs " thread</p></blockquote><p>What on earth are you arguing here ? You are trying to sell f2p to someone who was perfectly happy to continue on a sub and not have to deal with the bunch of whinning freeloaders ?</p><p>Think again.</p></blockquote><p>I seem to remember you stating before it was announced that we would all go F2P that you would cancel your account and leave the game if it did.  Still waiting.</p></blockquote><p>I did, the bought aod for 8 pounds.</p><p>not that is any of your concern . Anything else you'd like to know ?</p></blockquote><p>You waffle a lot.  Which means that your statements don't hold any weight.</p>

Odys
01-10-2012, 09:07 PM
<p>Cannot count how many veterans willing to test the game again left when the found out that they were naked.</p><p>A good option could be to allow ex live customers to keep their attuned gear. Further attuning will be done with unlockers or by going gold.</p><p>Another possibility would be a 1-2 monthes free gold subscription.</p>

thesiren
01-10-2012, 09:37 PM
<p>Wow, is this debate still petering out?</p><p>Well, let's end it once and for all:  Sony says that this is the way it is.  Deal with it.  Pay up, or accept the limitations all bronzes/silvers have to put up with.  The end.</p><p>See?  That was easy.  And as the rules haven't changed much since August 2010 when Extended first launched, don't be holding your breath for them to change now either.</p>

Uhlen
01-10-2012, 09:44 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Cannot count how many veterans willing to test the game again left when the found out that they were naked.</p><p>A good option could be to allow ex live customers to keep their attuned gear. Further attuning will be done with unlockers or by going gold.</p><p>Another possibility would be a 1-2 monthes free gold subscription.</p></blockquote><p>While I won't rule out having goofed up somewhere this appears to be the same situation I am in. When I left about a year or two ago I always carried adventure gear and crafting gear. I logged off back then in my crafting gear and now all my adventure gear is in bags I can't access. Granted, most of it was Leg/Fabled so it would be moot anyway.</p>

Guy De Alsace
01-10-2012, 09:48 PM
<p>You can remove it from the old bags. You just cant place anything new in the redded out bags.</p>

Tollymore
01-10-2012, 10:02 PM
<p><cite>Enever wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hi. I am sending this because apparently with Everquest II F2P <strong>one cannot even post to the forums</strong>. I have spent about 3-4 hours installing and trying out Everquest II, and will quit. I have played the excellent EVE Online (1 week F2P), LOTRO (1+ months F2P), Rift (2 weeks F2P), DeadFrontier (continued F2P) and other games before deciding to purchase/subscribe, and the F2P version of Everquest is such a joke. I don't want to subscribe.</p><ul><li>You can harvest all sorts of stuff that you can't sell, broker, craft with, or store. </li><li>There doesn't seem to be any way to make any money at the lowest levels - at level 5 or 6 I have managed a little over 1 gold, plus tons of stuff I cannot sell.</li><li>I don't see any of the early quests having any weapon upgrades at all, and the skills seem limited.</li><li>While I understand that fee to play requires restrictions (because money does need to be made), there are so many that the game is not fun or challenging (in a good way) and there is no reason to try to level up. It feels like you are required to at least purchase Silver to see what basics you can do. </li><li>I will say that I DO find the user interface flexibility excellent - the reason I took so long to get to level 5 was because I was setting up the hotkeys and such the way I like and those options were very good. The graphics are pretty, but the gameplay is just too limited to beanything other than intrusive and unenjoyable. </li></ul><p>What a waste of a perfectly good evening and what looks like it could have been a great game.PLEASE feel free to post this on my behalf so that the mods or devs or whoever see another fresh opinion. I am not going to purchase game time just to ask questions on the forum or to post this. Thanks!!-- ________________________________________Have a great day!-- ljbnomad / Leanomaa, level 5 EQ II</p></blockquote><p>Im going to reply to these point by point.</p><p>Harvesting : Yes, you can harvest all sorts of stuff, but the only thing really useful things are rares. Personally, I'd hang out at your friendly local crafting area and see if anyone there will either pay you for it, or make something for you out of it.</p><p>Speaking of making things, did the person you're quoting actually get to a city with a crafting area ? From the sounds of things they didnt.</p><p>Making gold : Right now, on Antonia Bayle, a gold will buy you an Iron Spatha - a level 10 weapon +12 str, +12 sta -  an Iron tower shield and a pair of 8 slot bags. Thats pretty good for gearing a level 10. Oh, and to get to an auctioneer, they needed to get to a crafting area.</p><p>FTP restrictions : Yes, a one-off payment for silver is a good idea, but it isnt mandatory.</p><p>Weapons : The first decent weapon quest is at about level 10</p><p>Posting : As previously mentioned, non-subscribers can post.</p><p>So, in short, it's not FTP, its just a new player who got lost as they didnt have anyone to help them learn to play.</p>

Tollymore
01-10-2012, 10:03 PM
<p><cite>thesiren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wow, is this debate still petering out?</p><p>Well, let's end it once and for all:  Sony says that this is the way it is.  Deal with it.  Pay up, or accept the limitations all bronzes/silvers have to put up with.  The end.</p><p>See?  That was easy.  And as the rules haven't changed much since August 2010 when Extended first launched, don't be holding your breath for them to change now either.</p></blockquote><p>TheSiren,</p><p>Allowing attunement tokens was a huge, huge change. Before that, there was no way to equip legendary or fabled without a monthly rental payment.</p>

Ogremindes
01-10-2012, 10:10 PM
<p><cite>thesiren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wow, is this debate still petering out?</p><p>Well, let's end it once and for all:  Sony says that this is the way it is.  Deal with it.  Pay up, or accept the limitations all bronzes/silvers have to put up with.  The end.</p><p>See?  That was easy.  And as the rules haven't changed much since August 2010 when Extended first launched, don't be holding your breath for them to change now either.</p></blockquote><p>Or option 3: leave and spend ones money with a game that doesn't put totally asinine restrictions on their non-subscribing <em>paying</em> customers.</p>

General_Info
01-11-2012, 01:05 AM
<p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>thesiren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wow, is this debate still petering out?</p><p>Well, let's end it once and for all:  Sony says that this is the way it is.  Deal with it.  Pay up, or accept the limitations all bronzes/silvers have to put up with.  The end.</p><p>See?  That was easy.  And as the rules haven't changed much since August 2010 when Extended first launched, don't be holding your breath for them to change now either.</p></blockquote><p>Or option 3: leave and spend ones money with a game that doesn't put totally asinine restrictions on their non-subscribing <em>paying</em> customers.</p></blockquote><p>so you think you are entitled to all the features a gold subscirber gets because you spent a few pennies to get some fluff items of the marketplace?</p><p>It's not even a matter of dollar to dollar (i.e spending $15 on items compared to spendin $15 on a sub) you buy items off the marketplace because you want them and not because you want to subscribe.</p><p>pay a sub and get the restrictions lifted or spend that money on items and keep the restrictions.</p>

Armawk
01-11-2012, 01:37 AM
<p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>thesiren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wow, is this debate still petering out?</p><p>Well, let's end it once and for all:  Sony says that this is the way it is.  Deal with it.  Pay up, or accept the limitations all bronzes/silvers have to put up with.  The end.</p><p>See?  That was easy.  And as the rules haven't changed much since August 2010 when Extended first launched, don't be holding your breath for them to change now either.</p></blockquote><p>Or option 3: leave and spend ones money with a game that doesn't put totally asinine restrictions on their non-subscribing <em>paying</em> customers.</p></blockquote><p>If you know of another game that you enjoy as much and gives better features for free then the sensible thing to do would be to play it. I can't say that I know one for me but each to their own.</p>

Griffildur
01-11-2012, 06:16 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Cannot count how many veterans willing to test the game again left when the found out that they were naked.</p><p>A good option could be to allow ex live customers to keep their attuned gear. Further attuning will be done with unlockers or by going gold.</p><p>Another possibility would be a 1-2 monthes free gold subscription.</p></blockquote><p>I've been saying that for a long time. However, at this point the damage is already done. Another opportunity lost.</p>

Griffildur
01-11-2012, 06:18 AM
<p><cite>willnotuse wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>You waffle a lot.  Which means that your statements don't hold any weight.</p></blockquote><p><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">A <strong>waffle</strong> is a <a title="Batter (cooking)" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batter_(cooking)">batter</a>- or <a title="Dough" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dough">dough</a>-based <a title="Cake" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cake">cake</a> cooked in a <a title="Waffle iron" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffle_iron">waffle iron</a> patterned to give a distinctive and characteristic shape. There are many variations based on the type and shape of the iron and the recipe used.</p><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Waffles are eaten throughout the world, particularly in <a title="Belgium" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium">Belgium</a> and the <a title="United States" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States">United States</a>. Common toppings are strawberries, chocolate, sugar, honey, syrups, ice cream, and more.</p><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Yes i do like waffles, apart from that I am not sure what you mean ...</p></p>

Morrias
01-11-2012, 08:52 AM
<p><cite>Enever wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The whole free-to-play concept in EQ2 is stupid and extremely limiting. For an example at what game does F2P best is Champions Online... they do it right.</p></blockquote><p>Even SoE understands how to do F2P correctly, they did it with DCUO, how they managed to screw up EQ2s F2P so badly is beyond me. Below level 60 or so should have no gear or spell limitations, I've been saying it since EQ2X came out.</p><p>I think SoE is worried if they implement something like this, a population will pool under the gear restrictions, but at the same time a F2P model should be self supportive, and if people don't want to pay, forcing stronger restrictions will just drive them away and completey destroy any chance SoE had of getting their money.</p><p>I notice a lot of F2P hate around here, which is a shame because it's really holding SoE back and preventing their games from achieving the success they deserve. Oh and before you say "We'll that's just another old account trying to get the game for free", I have zero interest in playing this game unless they re-introduce interesting raiding mechanics, in which case I will fully re-sub.</p><p>Also, when I say EQ2s F2P is poorly designed, I compare it to LOTRO, lotro was a failing MMO, in much worse shape than EQ2 is in, and turbine turned it into an immensly successful game with their F2P model, Turbine designed a great model, and they switched all their servers to it at once, which is a HUGE mistake SoE made, trying to make it a seperate payment model originally.</p><p>(I apologize if this was hard to follow, I'm quite tired)</p>

Ixalmaris
01-11-2012, 08:45 PM
<p>I just came back after several years of inactivity and the first thin I noticed was that I had a big space problem and that my characters was naked because I used many heirlooms which I now can't wear.</p><p>The sad thing is, hunting heirlooms was a big motivation for me.</p><p>I also have more characters than I can play (luckily my main character was among the ones I could still play).</p>

Zakaro
01-12-2012, 12:55 AM
<p>Ya know, I just see this whole post and cant help but think of one thing. There is a very specific word in the title of this thread... FREE. What I see in this game is you are given a nearly complete MMO for FREE. Pay $5 once and you get an even more complete MMO for nearly FREE.</p><p>With the items on the marketplace you have a choice. Pay your $15 a month like most people do for the amount of content you can get in this game for free, or purchase that content one piece at a time for a smaller fee each piece. I look at what you get in this game for free vs the other free MMO's out there and I dont see why people would complain about this one. Why not go play WOW for free and enjoy your entire 1 day of playing before your level 20. Are there limitations for a free account? Yes. However I cant help but remember a time where if you wanted to play any game you had to pay for it. Now somebody is giving you 80% of the game for free, why complain instead of saying, "Thank you for giving us a large portion of your game to play and experiance for free."</p><p>I can understand the people returning to the game being disapointed that their old items and equipment are no longer usable. But everybody signing up to an MMO does so with the understanding that to continue to play your characters and access your items you will have to continue to pay. Its even plainly printed on the boxes when you grab them in the store. Instead of focusing on what you cant use anymore, why not focus on the fact that you CAN. Heck, where is the thread complaining that now people can play their old characters for free while others are still paying?</p><p>Lets say you decide to cancel your cable service and stop paying the bill. Now a few months later the cable company called you up and said they were going to reactivate your basic cable for free, but you would not be able to watch HBO anymore. Would you just sit there complaining that you could no longer watch HBO? Or would you be happy you just recieved basic cable for free?</p><p>And, just because I have read a dictionary before...</p><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>willnotuse wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>You waffle a lot.  Which means that your statements don't hold any weight.</p></blockquote><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 19px; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">A <strong>waffle</strong> is a <a title="Batter (cooking)" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batter_(cooking)">batter</a>- or <a title="Dough" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dough">dough</a>-based <a title="Cake" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cake">cake</a> cooked in a <a title="Waffle iron" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffle_iron">waffle iron</a> patterned to give a distinctive and characteristic shape. There are many variations based on the type and shape of the iron and the recipe used.</p></blockquote><h3><span style="padding-bottom: 14px; padding-right: 15px;"><em>waf·fle</em></span><span style="font: smaller 'Doulos SIL','Gentum','TITUS Cyberbit Basic','Junicode','Aborigonal Serif','Arial Unicode MS','Lucida Sans Unicode','Chrysanthi Unicode'; padding-bottom: 7px;">/ˈwäfəl/</span></h3><table ><tbody><tr><td width="80px" valign="top">Verb:</td><td valign="top"><table ><tbody><tr><td>Fail to make up one's mind: "Joseph had been waffling over where to go".</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr height="1px" bgcolor="#ddd"><td colspan="2" height="1px"></td></tr><tr><td width="80px" valign="top">Noun:</td><td valign="top"><table ><tbody><tr><td><ol ><li style="list-style-type: decimal;">A failure to make up one's mind.</li><li style="list-style-type: decimal;">A small crisp batter cake, baked in a waffle iron and eaten hot with butter or syrup.</li></ol></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr height="1px" bgcolor="#ddd"><td colspan="2" height="1px"></td></tr><tr><td width="80px" valign="top">Adjective:</td><td valign="top"><table ><tbody><tr><td>Denoting a style of fine honeycomb weaving or a fabric woven to give a honeycomb effect.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr height="1px" bgcolor="#ddd"><td colspan="2" height="1px"></td></tr><tr><td width="80px" valign="top">Synonyms:</td><td valign="top"><div><span style="color: #666666;"><em>verb</em>.  </span>gab - prate - twaddle</div><div><span style="color: #666666;"><em>noun</em>.  </span>wafer</div></td></tr></tbody></table>

Griffildur
01-12-2012, 06:24 AM
<p><cite>Zakaro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ya know, I just see this whole post and cant help but think of one thing. There is a very specific word in the title of this thread... FREE. What I see in this game is you are given a nearly complete MMO for FREE. Pay $5 once and you get an even more complete MMO for nearly FREE.</p><p>With the items on the marketplace you have a choice. Pay your $15 a month like most people do for the amount of content you can get in this game for free, or purchase that content one piece at a time for a smaller fee each piece. I look at what you get in this game for free vs the other free MMO's out there and I dont see why people would complain about this one. Why not go play WOW for free and enjoy your entire 1 day of playing before your level 20. Are there limitations for a free account? Yes. However I cant help but remember a time where if you wanted to play any game you had to pay for it. Now somebody is giving you 80% of the game for free, why complain instead of saying, "Thank you for giving us a large portion of your game to play and experiance for free."</p><p>I can understand the people returning to the game being disapointed that their old items and equipment are no longer usable. But everybody signing up to an MMO does so with the understanding that to continue to play your characters and access your items you will have to continue to pay. Its even plainly printed on the boxes when you grab them in the store. Instead of focusing on what you cant use anymore, why not focus on the fact that you CAN. Heck, where is the thread complaining that now people can play their old characters for free while others are still paying?</p><p>Lets say you decide to cancel your cable service and stop paying the bill. Now a few months later the cable company called you up and said they were going to reactivate your basic cable for free, but you would not be able to watch HBO anymore. Would you just sit there complaining that you could no longer watch HBO? Or would you be happy you just recieved basic cable for free?</p></blockquote><p>You, and a few others like seem to miss some very important issues here.</p><p>SOE changed the model abruptly all of the sudden. Then they send emails to old account to come and try the game for free.</p><p>The people couldn't even login at that point, because most of them did not have the right class / race combination.</p><p>People left. then Soe grandfathered races / classes in, so a much smaller number of people come to try it for free and discover they can't play since all their gear is legendary / fabled ?</p><p>Do you get it now or does it need to spelt for you again ?</p><p>Oh and if my cable company does want me back and they throw in a lot of free stuff, including £50 vouchers.</p><p>Your analogy is completely irrelevant. Defend them as much as you'd like what they did was still economically stupid.</p>

Armawk
01-12-2012, 06:29 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Oh and if my cable company does want me back and they throw in a lot of free stuff, including £50 vouchers.</p></blockquote><p>IF and only if you start giving them money. They dont give you all your favourite cable channels for free forever just because the fact you used to be a customer makes them all misty-eyed with nostalgia now do they? </p>

Griffildur
01-12-2012, 06:33 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Oh and if my cable company does want me back and they throw in a lot of free stuff, including £50 vouchers.</p></blockquote><p>IF and only if you start giving them money. They dont give you all your favourite cable channels for free forever just because the fact you used to be a customer makes them all misty-eyed with nostalgia now do they? </p></blockquote><p>Actually most companies now struggle to get the customers they lost, back. It's a reality. They actually offered me a free month of all the paid for channels . I bet you didn't see that one coming, did you ? It's Sky by the way. they keep throwing stuff at me just to get  me back but i am very happy at the moment with virgin, so there you go .</p><p>It's funny how from my entire reply you chose the cable analogy. don't you have anything to say about the other things that I said there ?</p>

Odys
01-12-2012, 07:17 AM
<p>A free gold month would probably be a good idea just to hook people. But this should come with some radical change : attuned gear must stay unlocked even if you downgrade to silver. Similarly if you downgrade you should be able to select which toon you want to actively play without petitionning.</p><p>- Gold limit should be removed entirely, but broker one are fine.</p><p>- class limitation are fine (with the grandfather system)</p><p>- Bag limitation are fine.</p><p>- Legendary attuning should be allowed at least in the first levels, like 1-60 or even 1-80.</p><p>What should be avoided at any cost is the frustration & ragequit of returning peoples that end up naked because they were wearing fabled/legendary.</p>

Armawk
01-13-2012, 12:18 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Oh and if my cable company does want me back and they throw in a lot of free stuff, including £50 vouchers.</p></blockquote><p>IF and only if you start giving them money. They dont give you all your favourite cable channels for free forever just because the fact you used to be a customer makes them all misty-eyed with nostalgia now do they? </p></blockquote><p>Actually most companies now struggle to get the customers they lost, back. It's a reality. They actually offered me a free month of all the paid for channels . I bet you didn't see that one coming, did you ? It's Sky by the way. they keep throwing stuff at me just to get  me back but i am very happy at the moment with virgin, so there you go .</p><p>It's funny how from my entire reply you chose the cable analogy. don't you have anything to say about the other things that I said there ?</p></blockquote><p>Sure, a 30 day 'free trial' promotion is a valid thing.. in fact it is precisely what Sony did on a previous occasion. Not the same as a new Free to Play model though. Sky dont throw stuff at you so you can be a 'free to watch' customer do they? They do it to get you paying and make money from you, something you seem to object to Sony wanting to do.</p><p>As for the rest of your post, it was a CLEAR error to invite people back without having considered and come up with a good plan for this, such as the grandfathering of races and classes they put in later for example. a definite error, they got blindsided by people coming back and not being able to play at all without spending money, which was really stupid of them. Id have liked to see some sensible limited gear unlock also, maybe that gear equipped prior to a date doesnt actually drop off, you just can't equip it again or equip new gear without unlocks.</p><p>The solution to that error is not to expand the free model to essentially give the whole game to you for free if you want to stop paying though, just because you once paid them something. There is no logic in doing that, noone would do that, noone does do that.</p>

Dekedar
01-13-2012, 03:16 AM
<p>Gold restriction is excessive, it should be raised a bit, I think. Ideally: 100 plat at lvl 90, or maybe 1 plat per lvl, so 90. Even 75 wouldn't be bad. But what you really need is to copy the escrow system from DCUO. That will bring in some more revenue as well for people unlocking their gold.</p><p>Take that extra revenue and lighten the restriction on gear, aka let players sub 90 equip legendary without unlockers or make legendary unlockers that are less expensive, no reason you should have to pay to play like that while lvling up, it's a bit ridiculous imo.</p><p>And lastly, as if a popup isn't annoying enough everytime I log in (which thankfully isn't that often....) but loading a browser page when I camp? ... you think I don't know everquest2.com?!? Quit annoying me with this. It's stupid, I'm not going to sub because you sent me here, I close it instantly, so tell me, what is the point for your annoyance of me? Is it because you actually WANT to drive me away as a customer? You've done a great job of that up to this point, lets calm it down a bit guys, I'm trying to keep giving you at least some money, but you continue to drive me away with this stupid crap.</p><p>TL<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />R</p><p>Remove sending me straight to everquest2.com.</p>

Dreyco
01-13-2012, 03:53 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>make legendary unlockers that are less expensive, no reason you should have to pay to play like that while lvling up, it's a bit ridiculous imo.</p><p>And lastly, as if a popup isn't annoying enough everytime I log in (which thankfully isn't that often....) but loading a browser page when I camp? ... you think I don't know everquest2.com?!? Quit annoying me with this. It's stupid, I'm not going to sub because you sent me here, I close it instantly, so tell me, what is the point for your annoyance of me? Is it because you actually WANT to drive me away as a customer? You've done a great job of that up to this point, lets calm it down a bit guys, I'm trying to keep giving you at least some money, but you continue to drive me away with this stupid crap.</p><p>TL<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />R</p><p>Remove sending me straight to everquest2.com.</p></blockquote><p>Regarding the unlockers being too expensive...</p><p>30 cents per charge is ... too expensive? 0.o.  Thirty CENTS? Heh...</p>

Zakaro
01-13-2012, 04:02 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You, and a few others like seem to miss some very important issues here.</p><p>SOE changed the model abruptly all of the sudden. Then they send emails to old account to come and try the game for free.</p><p>The people couldn't even login at that point, because most of them did not have the right class / race combination.</p><p>People left. then Soe grandfathered races / classes in, so a much smaller number of people come to try it for free and discover they can't play since all their gear is legendary / fabled ?</p><p>Do you get it now or does it need to spelt for you again ?</p><p>Oh and if my cable company does want me back and they throw in a lot of free stuff, including £50 vouchers.</p><p>Your analogy is completely irrelevant. Defend them as much as you'd like what they did was still economically stupid.</p></blockquote><p>You have some very good points there, but your talking about a completly different thing than I am. You are speaking about incentives to make old paying customers return to the game. And I will agree that what your pointing out there are mistakes. But this thread wasent created about the problems returning players had over the free to play transition, it was created to talk about the limitations on a free to play account in general. My post is about those limitations in general. I am not speaking about people wanting access to their old equipment or blunders on SOE's part in their advertisement campaigns.</p><p>As I said in my original post, I can understand the returning players frustrations. But, that is a seperate issue from the issue of free to play limitations in general. And I still feel that you get a very good deal for FREE in this game. Heck, if I logged in in response to a free to play email and could not play a single one of my characters I would prob be quite annoied as well. But thats the nature of the beast, and all you can do is decide how you want to deal with it. Heck, at least the free to play deal is better than the deal I get when I try to log into my SWG characters...</p><p>And as for the cable company, if you have a cable company that will give you free service for nothing in return simply under the slim hope that you will start paying them again... what company do you use?<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Yes, they allways try to get you back with deals, I get several offers of the like myself. However to get those deals you normally have to agree ahead of time to sign up for a year or more of service PAYING THEM. Slightly different scenario from them simply comming out to your home and hooking up your cable again to show a few select channels and not asking for anything in return.</p>

Besual
01-13-2012, 04:39 AM
<p>The current limits regarding equping items would work much better if we still had the item tiers EQ2 pre RoK(?):</p><p>- common quest rewards / named drops are treasured</p><p>- long quest rewards / named rare drops / end boss drops are legendary</p><p>- end boss rare drops are fabled</p><p>- raid drops are fabled</p><p>Sadly SOE left this tiers behind and we have only legendary and fabled left. And with that this discussion about not enough free stuff for FTP.</p>

Griffildur
01-13-2012, 06:16 AM
<p><cite>Zakaro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You have some very good points there, but your talking about a completly different thing than I am. You are speaking about incentives to make old paying customers return to the game. And I will agree that what your pointing out there are mistakes. But this thread wasent created about the problems returning players had over the free to play transition, it was created to talk about the limitations on a free to play account in general. My post is about those limitations in general. I am not speaking about people wanting access to their old equipment or blunders on SOE's part in their advertisement campaigns.</p><p>As I said in my original post, I can understand the returning players frustrations. But, that is a seperate issue from the issue of free to play limitations in general. And I still feel that you get a very good deal for FREE in this game. Heck, if I logged in in response to a free to play email and could not play a single one of my characters I would prob be quite annoied as well. But thats the nature of the beast, and all you can do is decide how you want to deal with it. Heck, at least the free to play deal is better than the deal I get when I try to log into my SWG characters...</p><p>And as for the cable company, if you have a cable company that will give you free service for nothing in return simply under the slim hope that you will start paying them again... what company do you use?<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> Yes, they allways try to get you back with deals, I get several offers of the like myself. However to get those deals you normally have to agree ahead of time to sign up for a year or more of service PAYING THEM. Slightly different scenario from them simply comming out to your home and hooking up your cable again to show a few select channels and not asking for anything in return.</p></blockquote><p>Fair enough, good reply there.</p><p>As for my cable company I already mentioned it, it's Sky . I used to be a sky customer for years then they decided to "improve my system" and charge me for it even though I didn't ask for that so i told them if they want to do that I'l cancell. I have canceled and went with virgin and for the past 2 years they've been trying to get me back thrwoing all kind of offers at me. still, i like my Virgin ... anyway, enough derailing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Yaggaz
01-13-2012, 11:01 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they remove the limitations, what reason would there be to get a subscription or buy the unlockers?</p><p>The math is simple: the bills need to be paid, and the game has to bring in enough money every month to cover those bills. If that doesn't happen, the game shuts down. So when you see free-to-play advertised, don't fool yourself into thinking that you'll be able to avoid paying for the game.</p><p>As for the gear, I don't see where you need legendary/fabled gear short of top-end group instances and raiding. By the time you've gotten to that point, you're playing the game consistently enough that the monthly subscription makes sense.</p></blockquote><p>Nobody is saying that it should be completely free, only pointing out that the current laughable monstrosity is currently crippling and unintelligent business wise.</p><p>Make it more relaxed like LOTRO and then ~GASP~ Wow they earn more money. Easy to "pay those bills" then eh?</p>

thesiren
01-14-2012, 11:03 AM
<p><cite>Yaggaz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Nobody is saying that it should be completely free, only pointing out that the current laughable monstrosity is currently crippling and unintelligent business wise.</p><p>Make it more relaxed like LOTRO and then ~GASP~ Wow they earn more money. Easy to "pay those bills" then eh?</p></blockquote><p>Oh, sure-- raise the plat cap and everything else that gets in the way of your playing 100% for free, and then the money will flow for Sony?!?!</p><p>ROFL.</p>

Dekedar
01-14-2012, 07:08 PM
<p><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>make legendary unlockers that are less expensive, no reason you should have to pay to play like that while lvling up, it's a bit ridiculous imo.</p><p>And lastly, as if a popup isn't annoying enough everytime I log in (which thankfully isn't that often....) but loading a browser page when I camp? ... you think I don't know everquest2.com?!? Quit annoying me with this. It's stupid, I'm not going to sub because you sent me here, I close it instantly, so tell me, what is the point for your annoyance of me? Is it because you actually WANT to drive me away as a customer? You've done a great job of that up to this point, lets calm it down a bit guys, I'm trying to keep giving you at least some money, but you continue to drive me away with this stupid crap.</p><p>TL<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />R</p><p>Remove sending me straight to everquest2.com.</p></blockquote><p>Regarding the unlockers being too expensive...</p><p>30 cents per charge is ... too expensive? 0.o.  Thirty CENTS? Heh...</p></blockquote><p>On my 90's I don't have a problem with it, but I don't know how I feel about it on alts that are out lvling gear quickly. I don't plan on lvling any of my alts anytime soon (or even playing them anymore...) but ya. Really though, I'm more concerned with the EQ2 website which I can visit wheneve I feel like it opening whenever I log out of the game. It's an annoyance.</p><p><cite>Besual wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The current limits regarding equping items would work much better if we still had the item tiers EQ2 pre RoK(?):</p><p>- common quest rewards / named drops are treasured</p><p>- long quest rewards / named rare drops / end boss drops are legendary</p><p>- end boss rare drops are fabled</p><p>- raid drops are fabled</p><p>Sadly SOE left this tiers behind and we have only legendary and fabled left. And with that this discussion about not enough free stuff for FTP.</p></blockquote><p>This is another issue, they abandoned that model solely for the purpose of making money off unlockers... they changed the gear model that has been in game since launch, I don't agree with that. Bu then again, itemization is the biggest issue in this game right now, so it shouldn't be surprising.</p>

ET3D2
01-14-2012, 07:18 PM
<p>Haven't read all the replies, but here's my two cents:</p><p>I think that some changes would make Silver more fun to play. For example, allow Legenday gear at least as for appearance slots. Allow reforging to Treasured for those who bought AoD.</p><p>Still, I can't understand anyone who ragequits over the limitations, especially up front. Game didn't let you equip one item you got at low level and suddenly all the questing, crafting and world are worthless? If that's the case, then maybe it really is the wrong game for that person.</p><p>I think that SOE did strike a decent balance for Silver. It might not satisfy everyone, and it may be possible to improve it to make more people happy without making Gold less desireable, but a lot of people play happily at this level.</p>

Ogremindes
01-14-2012, 07:37 PM
<p>Having played LotRO for a while, it seems to me that EQ2's F2P model has different objectives, despite being a similar setup.</p><p>EQ2 seems to be focused on driving new subscriptions, being highly restrictive with no real way out apart from subscribing or leaving, while LotRO seems to be trying to monetize an audience that they wouldn't otherwise have, still restrictive (though not as severe as EQ2), but almost everything their gold-equivalent gets that their silver doesn't can be purchased as unlocks (the only exception I noticed was the use of Destiny Points, but those are a way to get free consumables of the type that have traditionally been the bread-and-butter of F2P cash shops, so that seems fair).</p><p>Given those objectives, for me LotRO is successful, while EQ2 was never going to be (as I know my foibles well enough to know that "I have to play this game <em>now</em> or I'm wasting my money" is an idea so bad that it can only readily be described in terms normally reserved for experimentation with hard drugs).</p>

Zehl_Ice-Fire
01-14-2012, 08:58 PM
<p>I agree with the OP, and I think it is a huge turn off to KEEP the new players. Maybe at higher levels, if you make it that far and enjoy it a lot, subscribing or unlocking high level gear is ok. But making level 5, 10, even 25 pay per slot to unlock quested or dropped legendary is silly. I think it would be fair for legendary, or mastercrafted (support crafters?) to be worn by free players, at the least up to level 60 or something close to that.</p>

Odys
01-14-2012, 09:41 PM
<p>I would totally open the 1-80 game : i mean master, legendary gear etc ....</p><p>And i would expect money from fluff items.</p><p>Fluff items are something almost perfect, it does make people feel like they are buying gear or aas or levels.</p><p>Having a pink poney, a castle won't make you a better tank/healer/mage etc ....</p><p>Selling services is a good idea too : race change etc ..., or an item to summon a player (a very good idea at a reasonnable price).</p><p>Allow people to have fun in 1-80, allow them to wear quest reward and make them buy mounts, houses, xp potions or whatever.</p><p>Some services that you could add :</p><p>Instance reset token (no limit)</p><p>Raid reset token (you could have limitation on that)</p><p>Armor repacker (repack your raid armor into the original mold, that one remains inherited)</p><p>Class reset (reset your adventure class, but keeps your aas, factions, quest are all cleared).</p>

Enica
01-15-2012, 12:25 AM
<p>People keep comparing this to LotRO, saying they have a better model. I really don't know about that, since I've never gotten a character above level 20. And the last time I played, you had to buy the quests from level 20 on, and you also had to buy your riding skill. That turned me off. Is it still that way?</p>

Ogremindes
01-15-2012, 02:19 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People keep comparing this to LotRO, saying they have a better model. I really don't know about that, since I've never gotten a character above level 20. And the last time I played, you had to buy the quests from level 20 on, and you also had to buy your riding skill. That turned me off. Is it still that way?</p></blockquote><p>For the fist part, I have no experience (only level 18), but it looks like free quests cap out a bit after 30. As for riding, the free cash shop points you get from deeds adds up enough to get the skill by level 20 (which is when you'd get it as a sub) without much hassle (you want the traits from deeds anyway).</p><p>I think of it as much friendlier than EQ2's because the stuff I want/need from the cash shop are all unlocks, mostly account level unlocks to boot. Spending 30 cents for the privilege of using one quest reward I just earned sucks. Spending 8 dollars to gain access a whole new area for all my characters forever is psychologically much better.</p>

Michayla
01-15-2012, 03:57 AM
<p>Why are we even comparing LotRO to EQ2?</p><p>EQ2 has had 7 expansion packs and 3 adventure packs between the date of its initial release and F2P conversion. LotRO has had 2 expansion packs. Yes, only 2, because Rise of Isengard wasn't released until a year AFTER the conversion.</p><p>EQ2 is currently on it's 62nd game-wide update LotRO? 5. In fact, LotRO's list of game updates and release notes comes out to a <a href="http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Category:LOTRO_Releases" target="_blank">whopping 77 articles total</a>. There is a very large gap in the amount of content seperating EQ2 and LotRO, so why are we comparing the two again?</p>

Ogremindes
01-15-2012, 04:01 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why are we even comparing LotRO to EQ2?</p><p>EQ2 has had 7 expansion packs and 3 adventure packs between the date of its initial release and F2P conversion. LotRO has had 2 expansion packs. Yes, only 2, because Rise of Isengard wasn't released until a year AFTER the conversion.</p><p>EQ2 is currently on it's 62nd game-wide update LotRO? 5. In fact, LotRO's list of game updates and release notes comes out to a <a href="http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Category:LOTRO_Releases" target="_blank">whopping 77 articles total</a>. There is a very large gap in the amount of content seperating EQ2 and LotRO, so why are we comparing the two again?</p></blockquote><p>Because they use very similar F2P models.</p>

Michayla
01-15-2012, 04:25 AM
<p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why are we even comparing LotRO to EQ2?</p><p>EQ2 has had 7 expansion packs and 3 adventure packs between the date of its initial release and F2P conversion. LotRO has had 2 expansion packs. Yes, only 2, because Rise of Isengard wasn't released until a year AFTER the conversion.</p><p>EQ2 is currently on it's 62nd game-wide update LotRO? 5. In fact, LotRO's list of game updates and release notes comes out to a <a href="http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Category:LOTRO_Releases" target="_blank">whopping 77 articles total</a>. There is a very large gap in the amount of content seperating EQ2 and LotRO, so why are we comparing the two again?</p></blockquote><p>Because they use very similar F2P models.</p></blockquote><p>Do they? Weren't you just complaining in your previous post you'd rather spend 8 bucks for unlocking an area on your whole account, which EQ2 doesn't offer at all (in fact, they give you those areas minus DoV for FREE!), rather than 30 cents to unlock a piece of gear?</p><p>Doesn't sound too similar to me. Of course, if you're willing to pay to unlock 7 expansion and 3 adventure packs worth of areas and quest lines, I'm sure SoE would love to hear you out. That sounds like a lot of money to be made.</p>

Tollymore
01-15-2012, 01:34 PM
<p>In the Turbine model, you pay to access an area, once, but get all the gear from that zone, ever and on all toons.</p><p>In the SOE model, the zone is generally free, but any given gear drop or quest reward may be unequippable without payment ... and the non-free zone they sell does not include the gear within it.</p><p>They are different models, but before endgame, SOE's just encourages me to shrug my shoulders, turn the unusable drop or quest reward into adorning mats and move on. Turbine's model is more successful in extracting money from me, as if I want to see more content, I need to give them more money to buy it ... but once it's bougth, it's bought, not rented.</p><p>SOE's model is about making a payment to buy away negative limitations, with some limitations set in concrete without a monthly rental payment. Turbine's model is about making payments to access new content.</p><p>Buying power for cash is a wash, with Turbine through selling rare drops like +stat tomes in the store, and SOE effectively selling rare drops by allowing trading plat for SC and allowing selling loot rights for plat, meaning you can easily turn cash into rare loot.</p>

agnott
01-15-2012, 01:59 PM
<p>They are now selling wings. That should tell how SOE is planning the twilight years (or year) for EQ2. I would be shocked if they touched the so called F2p system at this point.</p><p>With the addition of the wings, it should be crystal clear that F2p is not the model being used ..the wholesale fleecing of the playerbase is the model EQ2 is using.</p>

Nolrog
01-15-2012, 02:10 PM
<p><cite>agnott wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They are now selling wings. That should tell how SOE is planning the twilight years (or year) for EQ2. I would be shocked if they touched the so called F2p system at this point.</p><p>With the addition of the wings, it should be crystal clear that F2p is not the model being used ..the wholesale fleecing of the playerbase is the model EQ2 is using.</p></blockquote><p>Just because someone is subscription, doesn't mean they get everything for free.  WoW does this as well (they sold a mount for $20 a while back.)  Welcome to the current world of MMOs. </p>

Griffildur
01-15-2012, 02:20 PM
<p><cite>Nolrog wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>agnott wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They are now selling wings. That should tell how SOE is planning the twilight years (or year) for EQ2. I would be shocked if they touched the so called F2p system at this point.</p><p>With the addition of the wings, it should be crystal clear that F2p is not the model being used ..the wholesale fleecing of the playerbase is the model EQ2 is using.</p></blockquote><p>Just because someone is subscription, doesn't mean they get everything for free.  WoW does this as well (they sold a mount for $20 a while back.)  Welcome to the current world of MMOs. </p></blockquote><p>That's p[ossibly one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen.</p><p><span style="color: #444444; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; background-color: #f3f5ff;"><strong>Just because someone is subscription, doesn't mean they get everything for free</strong></span></p><p>If you pay a sub, you pay a sub you don't get stuff for free. that's what the word pay means ... A lot of us here don't like this direction at all and we will voice our concerns regardless of what a few freeloaders think.</p>

Armawk
01-15-2012, 03:14 PM
<p><cite>Tollymore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>may be unequippable without payment ... and the <strong>non-free zone they sell does not include the gear within it</strong>.</p></blockquote><p>Apart from the bolded part I prefer SOEs model by far. The bold part is a shocker.</p>

thesiren
01-15-2012, 04:12 PM
<p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People keep comparing this to LotRO, saying they have a better model. I really don't know about that, since I've never gotten a character above level 20. And the last time I played, you had to buy the quests from level 20 on, and you also had to buy your riding skill. That turned me off. Is it still that way?</p></blockquote><p>For the fist part, I have no experience (only level 1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, but it looks like free quests cap out a bit after 30. As for riding, the free cash shop points you get from deeds adds up enough to get the skill by level 20 (which is when you'd get it as a sub) without much hassle (you want the traits from deeds anyway).</p><p>I think of it as much friendlier than EQ2's because the stuff I want/need from the cash shop are all unlocks, mostly account level unlocks to boot. Spending 30 cents for the privilege of using one quest reward I just earned sucks. Spending 8 dollars to gain access a whole new area for all my characters forever is psychologically much better.</p></blockquote><p>All you peeps ballyhooing about how great LoTRO's F2P is do realize that they sell statted gear in the marketplace now, right?  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p><p>*ducks for cover against the screaming hordes with pitchforks and torches*</p>

Altom
01-15-2012, 10:47 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ogremindes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why are we even comparing LotRO to EQ2?</p><p>EQ2 has had 7 expansion packs and 3 adventure packs between the date of its initial release and F2P conversion. LotRO has had 2 expansion packs. Yes, only 2, because Rise of Isengard wasn't released until a year AFTER the conversion.</p><p>EQ2 is currently on it's 62nd game-wide update LotRO? 5. In fact, LotRO's list of game updates and release notes comes out to a <a href="http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Category:LOTRO_Releases" target="_blank">whopping 77 articles total</a>. There is a very large gap in the amount of content seperating EQ2 and LotRO, so why are we comparing the two again?</p></blockquote><p>Because they use very similar F2P models.</p></blockquote><p>Do they? Weren't you just complaining in your previous post you'd rather spend 8 bucks for unlocking an area on your whole account, which EQ2 doesn't offer at all (in fact, they give you those areas minus DoV for FREE!), rather than 30 cents to unlock a piece of gear?</p><p>Doesn't sound too similar to me. Of course, if you're willing to pay to unlock 7 expansion and 3 adventure packs worth of areas and quest lines, I'm sure SoE would love to hear you out. That sounds like a lot of money to be made.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, we are not comparing LotRO to EQ2, we are comparing <em>LotRO's F2P system</em> to <em>EQ2's F2P system</em>, which is an entirely different thing altogether. (Same game could have a different F2P, or different games could have the same, etc.)</p><p>And, not because they use similar F2P models, but exactly because they are two otherwise comparatively similar games, using comparatively <em>different </em>F2P.</p><p>And, yes, I tend to agree with Ogremindes that LotRO's model is friendlier, in that you can get access to zones there by means of a one-time payment, and after that the game is playable in a fairly normal way.</p><p>As for statted gear selling in the marketplace, what is to rule out its adoption here as well?</p>

ljbnomad
01-16-2012, 12:29 PM
<p>Hallo. I am Leanomaa, and I am following up. It took 3+ days to get access to the forum, and then I got busy.</p><p>Anyhoo, I decided, despite my misgivings after the first 6 levels, to go ahead and try the game at one month of the Gold level. I kind of felt that if I wanted to get the picture I had to pay upfront. </p><p>I wanted to check in to say that I definitely like the game, especially the openess of the guild system (found a great guild in 3 days). The setting, environment, and activity is fun. I would have missed a lot if I had not decided to gamble and try a 1-month sub after the limits to the F2P.</p><p>I guess my big point here would be that the current F2P is fairly limited - but might not seem so if there were a few more tutes easily found - about the banking (I 2 slots available but did not know you could put an expander bag in them), the craft items you can't actually craft with (until level 9 or 10?), the misc objects that you can't sell or do anything with (city market?), or the possibilities of the home, macros for abilities, etc.</p><p>Those things alone could help make the complexity that is EQII F2P easier to get thru in the first 10 levels. Overall, my past gameplay wit Lotro and other games helped some, but there were many niggling questions that I didn't feel I could do anything about in the F2P because a lot of the limitations on stuff was confusing and distracting. Perhaps having Silver Levell free to play for 2 full weeks would help more than the total piecemeal for noobs; old hands who want to go down to Silver of F2P should be okay, but to attract the noobs, even the much more noobish than me, at least the Silver for 2 uninterrupted weeks could be smoother. Then you hook 'em, and life is cool.</p><p>But, just wanted to join back in and say that I am glad I did pay the Gold so I could see the greater picture earlier on. It is a fun game and has a lot of interesting stuff to do. Hope to stay on a bit. :0)</p>

Nrgy
01-16-2012, 01:42 PM
<p><cite>ljbnomad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Hallo. I am Leanomaa,</blockquote><p>Welcome ~L ... hope you enjoy your stay.</p><p>As for the rest of you, thinking that anyone can fire up a F2P game, regardless of it's title or producer, and expecting to use all available features such as gear, land mass, quests is foolishness.  The F2P model allows people to expereince the game without committing a large cash investment.  There is a certain amount of that content available for that free access.  EQ2 provides much more content than any other title.  LOTR gives open access for a very limited lelev range and afterwards your paying, for everything.  EQ2 provides ten times the content and doesn't limit levels in anyway, but only 'power'.</p><p>Content (gear) not available to F2P toons is misleading.  Mostly becasue a toon would have already paids under other models just to experience that content, where here you only have to pay for what your toons values.  It's a totally different model and apporach.  LOTR, as example, is herding the players into a cash shop, EQ2 is really only offering one that isn't even required to expereince 85%+ of the content.</p><p>BTW, the F2P model is really only there to benefit three groups.  The "new" people to try it and test it.  The "Veterans" that have all the upgrades they desire via gear/spells/ca's that want to "coast" with less cost.  The Game producer that enjoys the profits from all the people in the middle that foolishly don't sub gold.</p>

Scotia_The_Great
01-17-2012, 03:13 PM
<p>FTP works for those, like me, who can't play everyday.  I can squeeze in 2 hours on Saturday and 2 hours on Sunday.  Have kids and other responsibilties.</p><p>I think the number of potential customers to Sony who are in my situation greatly out number the the quantity that can play everyday for even just 4-5 hours.</p><p>As long as I can progress through the game, and I can't group since I need to jump up and leave at a moments notice, I'm happy. </p><p>Only thing I wish I could do is use the broker with my Silver account access.</p><p>And in all fairness I grandfathered in 4 toons where 3 of them are restricted classes and races....but I just opened a new account to play from scratch since I'm pretty out of touch with the game at this point!</p>

Jrral
01-17-2012, 03:44 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tollymore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>may be unequippable without payment ... and the <strong>non-free zone they sell does not include the gear within it</strong>.</p></blockquote><p>Apart from the bolded part I prefer SOEs model by far. The bold part is a shocker.</p></blockquote><p>Not really. That's the gear restriction part of Free and Silver accounts: Free and Silver are restricted from equipping Legendary and Fabled gear. They can buy unlockers, but yes the restrictions do mean that Free and Silver players can run eg. the SF and DoV instances but not be able to immediately use the Legendary gear that'll drop in them.</p>

Gilasil
01-17-2012, 03:56 PM
<p>*checks to see if Dell has started giving away free servers -- nope*</p><p>*checks to see if sysadmins have started working full time jobs for free -- nope*</p><p>*checks to see if programmers and artists have started working full time jobs for free -- nope*</p><p>If you work all day how long would you stay there if they expected you to work for free?  Some people are independently wealthy or are supported by someone else (even if it's the government) but for most of us who have gotten into the habit of eating regularly it's out of the question.  We HAVE to charge for our services i.e. demand a paycheck.</p><p>The same for companies.</p><p>It costs a LOT to run a game like EQ2 even for just the day to day operations not even taking into account the development work for new content.  Yet some people expect Sony to just run it and give away their product for free thus eating the cost.  That is not a good way to stay in business.  And if Sony goes out of business EQ2 will shut down and then you won't be able to play at all.</p><p>SoE is being very generous with their current setup.  Yes they've made mistakes (who hasn't made mistakes) but they let you do a lot for free.  If you want more you're going to have to pitch in and put in some money to actually PAY for it.  If they're any more generous there will be no incentive for people to pay and the whole enterprise goes OUT of business.  No more play.</p><p>So if you don't like the limitations for playing for free then toss in some money and help pay for all this.  If you're not willing to help pay for it then you have no right to complain.   Be glad for what you got for free.</p><p>But I suppose you could give SoE the ultimatum that if they don't let your free account have access to more content you'll stop playing and costing them bandwidth.  Maybe that will work.</p>

Enica
01-17-2012, 04:26 PM
<p><cite>Scotia_The_Great wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Only thing I wish I could do is use the broker with my Silver account access.</p></blockquote><p>As a Silver account you can buy from the broker, but not sell. If you want to sell, you buy tokens. They are 10 for 50sc, which really isn't that bad. Before the entire game went F2P my finances were tight so I played as Silver on EQ2X for a while. I bought enough SC to keep me in broker tokens and everything was peachy.</p>

Armawk
01-17-2012, 10:47 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tollymore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>may be unequippable without payment ... and the <strong>non-free zone they sell does not include the gear within it</strong>.</p></blockquote><p>Apart from the bolded part I prefer SOEs model by far. The bold part is a shocker.</p></blockquote><p>Not really. That's the gear restriction part of Free and Silver accounts: Free and Silver are restricted from equipping Legendary and Fabled gear. They can buy unlockers, but yes the restrictions do mean that Free and Silver players can run eg. the SF and DoV instances but not be able to immediately use the Legendary gear that'll drop in them.</p></blockquote><p>Well duh, I know how the gear system works, but apparently you dont know how velious works.. The point is that the solo quested treasured gear in Velious is instead legendary. There is NO treasured gear in velious. None. Therefore its selling a useless expansion without gold or unlockers, as 20 minutes into the solo part of the expansion you cannot beat even the solo mobs without crit mit gear. previous expansion treasured or MC will not avail you one bit.</p>

Tollymore
01-18-2012, 12:27 AM
<p><cite>thesiren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>All you peeps ballyhooing about how great LoTRO's F2P is do realize that they sell statted gear in the marketplace now, right?  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p><p>*ducks for cover against the screaming hordes with pitchforks and torches*</p></blockquote><p>Sony dont need to sell statted gear - their players do it for them.</p><p>Let us say I have money, and I want statted gear. Sony wants this money.</p><p>I buy Station Cash cards off Sony for money. Sony now has the money. Sony is happy.</p><p>I sell those Station Cash cards for plat. Some other player later gives the SC to Sony for game time. They are happy.</p><p>I take that plat and buy Loot Rights. I now have statted gear to equip . I am happy.</p><p>Some other player now has plat to buy Station Cash cards with. They are happy.</p><p>Given Sony can get money by enabling the SC -> plat -> loot -> plat -> SC cycle, why create all the angst about "selling power" by selling statted gear directly, when you can just use players as intermediaries ?</p>

Kizee
01-18-2012, 02:00 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tollymore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>may be unequippable without payment ... and the <strong>non-free zone they sell does not include the gear within it</strong>.</p></blockquote><p>Apart from the bolded part I prefer SOEs model by far. The bold part is a shocker.</p></blockquote><p>Not really. That's the gear restriction part of Free and Silver accounts: Free and Silver are restricted from equipping Legendary and Fabled gear. They can buy unlockers, but yes the restrictions do mean that Free and Silver players can run eg. the SF and DoV instances but not be able to immediately use the Legendary gear that'll drop in them.</p></blockquote><p>Well duh, I know how the gear system works, but apparently you dont know how velious works.. The point is that the solo quested treasured gear in Velious is instead legendary. There is NO treasured gear in velious. None. Therefore its selling a useless expansion without gold or unlockers, as 20 minutes into the solo part of the expansion you cannot beat even the solo mobs without crit mit gear. previous expansion treasured or MC will not avail you one bit.</p></blockquote><p>Apparently you don't know how velious works either. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> </p><p>SoE removed the crit mit requirements a long time ago for DoV except for a select few upper heroic zones. (and of course you need crit mit for raids)</p>

GussJr
01-18-2012, 02:08 PM
<p><cite>Gilasil wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>*checks to see if Dell has started giving away free servers -- nope*</p><p>*checks to see if sysadmins have started working full time jobs for free -- nope*</p><p>*checks to see if programmers and artists have started working full time jobs for free -- nope*</p><p>If you work all day how long would you stay there if they expected you to work for free?  Some people are independently wealthy or are supported by someone else (even if it's the government) but for most of us who have gotten into the habit of eating regularly it's out of the question.  We HAVE to charge for our services i.e. demand a paycheck.</p><p>The same for companies.</p><p>It costs a LOT to run a game like EQ2 even for just the day to day operations not even taking into account the development work for new content.  Yet some people expect Sony to just run it and give away their product for free thus eating the cost.  That is not a good way to stay in business.  And if Sony goes out of business EQ2 will shut down and then you won't be able to play at all.</p><p>SoE is being very generous with their current setup.  Yes they've made mistakes (who hasn't made mistakes) but they let you do a lot for free.  If you want more you're going to have to pitch in and put in some money to actually PAY for it.  If they're any more generous there will be no incentive for people to pay and the whole enterprise goes OUT of business.  No more play.</p><p>So if you don't like the limitations for playing for free then toss in some money and help pay for all this.  If you're not willing to help pay for it then you have no right to complain.   Be glad for what you got for free.</p><p>But I suppose you could give SoE the ultimatum that if they don't let your free account have access to more content you'll stop playing and costing them bandwidth.  Maybe that will work.</p></blockquote><p>^^^THIS! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

Blutig
01-18-2012, 03:44 PM
<p>Slightly irritated that having bought the game in 2005 and played EQ1 before that then left for a bit I can now no longer play certain classes.  Like I bought a car and they took the electric windows away after I bought it.</p>

GussJr
01-18-2012, 03:54 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Slightly irritated that having bought the game in 2005 and played EQ1 before that then left for a bit I can now no longer play certain classes.  Like I bought a car and they took the electric windows away after I bought it.</p></blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> well, IRL if you bought a car in 2005 and quit paying the monthly bill they would have repo-ed the whole thing...at least all you lost were your 'windows'.</p><p>Pay the monthly fee and get everything back...just because you paid in 2005 doesn't mean you get the entire game in 2012 for free 'just because'...</p>

Nrgy
01-18-2012, 04:03 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Slightly irritated that having bought the game in 2005 and played EQ1 before that then left for a bit I can now no longer play certain classes.  Like I bought a car and they took the electric windows away after I bought it.</p></blockquote><p>If you cared enough to play those classes or races before you quit, seemingly for good at the time, they would have been grandfathered to use now.  If you didn't care about playing those classes or races before you quit, seemingly for good, why do you care now?</p><p>BTW, your analogy is pretty weak becase the car still has windows, but now with crank windows that take a little effort to use.  Try something like; When I use to work at the bus station I used the bathrooms for free, now that I quit that job and go to the bus station to use the bathroom I have to pay to use them ($.25 to use a toilet, $.20 for toiletpapper, $.10 to use the sink and $.15 to use a hand towel)</p>

Blutig
01-18-2012, 04:11 PM
<p>Yeah, it does occur to me I would be less annoyed if SOE just said , no pay then no play.  So you could argue I should be grateful and shut up.</p><p>Those characters were not transferred, I think possibly because I removed them in a fit of trying to take part in society!</p><p>Not to worry, Im not going to go postal at SOE hq or anything.</p>

Armawk
01-18-2012, 04:56 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tollymore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>may be unequippable without payment ... and the <strong>non-free zone they sell does not include the gear within it</strong>.</p></blockquote><p>Apart from the bolded part I prefer SOEs model by far. The bold part is a shocker.</p></blockquote><p>Not really. That's the gear restriction part of Free and Silver accounts: Free and Silver are restricted from equipping Legendary and Fabled gear. They can buy unlockers, but yes the restrictions do mean that Free and Silver players can run eg. the SF and DoV instances but not be able to immediately use the Legendary gear that'll drop in them.</p></blockquote><p>Well duh, I know how the gear system works, but apparently you dont know how velious works.. The point is that the solo quested treasured gear in Velious is instead legendary. There is NO treasured gear in velious. None. Therefore its selling a useless expansion without gold or unlockers, as 20 minutes into the solo part of the expansion you cannot beat even the solo mobs without crit mit gear. previous expansion treasured or MC will not avail you one bit.</p></blockquote><p>Apparently you don't know how velious works either. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> </p><p>SoE removed the crit mit requirements a long time ago for DoV except for a select few upper heroic zones. (and of course you need crit mit for raids)</p></blockquote><p>Done Storm Gorge in pre-velious treasured recently? Let me know how that goes k?</p>

Nrgy
01-18-2012, 05:26 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah, it does occur to me I would be less annoyed if SOE just said , no pay then no play.  So you could argue I should be grateful and shut up.</p><p>Those characters were not transferred, I think possibly because I removed them in a fit of trying to take part in society!</p><p>Not to worry, Im not going to go postal at SOE hq or anything.</p></blockquote><p>Really?  You'd be happier to have nothing than 20% of something?  So, if they were giving away money and had $100,000, you'd rather have none of it than a measily $20,000 for just stopping by?</p>

Blutig
01-18-2012, 05:44 PM
<p>No, you miss my point , that is what I was saying, that my reaction (in one sense) was daft.</p>

Elestial
01-19-2012, 12:31 PM
<p>I am a silver player and do not mind buying unlockers at higher levels. However, I recently created 2 new characters and started the level 20 quest armor with one of them to find the armor has been changed to legendary! I ended up just making them some mastercrafted and skipping the quests since I couldn't use the reward. It is ashame that f2p can't use the rewards from questing without unlocking it the majority of the time. And at lower levels it doesn't make sense to unlock items since leveling happens so quickly. It would make more sense to provide usuable rewards for all players under level 50 or 60 since the game is a questing game.</p>

akin99
01-19-2012, 01:12 PM
<p><cite>Elestial wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am a silver player and do not mind buying unlockers at higher levels. However, I recently created 2 new characters and started the level 20 quest armor with one of them to find the armor has been changed to legendary! I ended up just making them some mastercrafted and skipping the quests since I couldn't use the reward. It is ashame that f2p can't use the rewards from questing without unlocking it the majority of the time. And at lower levels it doesn't make sense to unlock items since leveling happens so quickly. It would make more sense to provide usuable rewards for all players under level 50 or 60 since the game is a questing game.</p></blockquote><p>If they reduce the quest items to only treasured that punishes the paying players. So obviouly you dont want to anger your paying customers.</p><p>Now while it is work for SOE a nice comprimise would be to make all quests offer treasured or legandary rewards. So if you dont want to pay you can take the lesser reward and go on.</p>

yohann koldheart
01-19-2012, 04:20 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Slightly irritated that having bought the game in 2005 and played EQ1 before that then left for a bit I can now no longer play certain classes.  Like I bought a car and they took the electric windows away after I bought it.</p></blockquote><p>more like you rented a car , then when you stopped paying they took it and gave you a bike to ride till you can afford the car again.</p>

agnott
01-19-2012, 05:32 PM
<p>Why is it that this is the only place in the world where you have people who are so concerned that some huge corporation is making as much money as possible and are happy to pay more for less. Just last month some mega bank had to bail on thier attepmt to add a 5 dollar a month charge due to the enormous outrage.</p><p>Where is the outrage here?</p><p>With the wings they just added and the "content" builder    ..... They are not even trying to hide the fact they are taking advantage of you.</p>

Altom
01-20-2012, 12:07 AM
<p><cite>akin99 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Elestial wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am a silver player and do not mind buying unlockers at higher levels. However, I recently created 2 new characters and started the level 20 quest armor with one of them to find the armor has been changed to legendary! I ended up just making them some mastercrafted and skipping the quests since I couldn't use the reward. It is ashame that f2p can't use the rewards from questing without unlocking it the majority of the time. And at lower levels it doesn't make sense to unlock items since leveling happens so quickly. It would make more sense to provide usuable rewards for all players under level 50 or 60 since the game is a questing game.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">If they reduce the quest items to only treasured that punishes the paying players.</span> So obviouly you dont want to anger your paying customers.</p><p>Now while it is work for SOE a nice comprimise would be to make all quests offer treasured or legandary rewards. So if you dont want to pay you can take the lesser reward and go on.</p></blockquote><p>How, exactly, does this punish the "paying players"? (Mind you, not that a silver or even bronze player is necessarily "non-paying" either).</p>

General_Info
01-20-2012, 12:45 AM
<p><cite>Altom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>akin99 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span style="color: #ff00ff;">If they reduce the quest items to only treasured that punishes the paying players.</span> So obviouly you dont want to anger your paying customers.<p>Now while it is work for SOE a nice comprimise would be to make all quests offer treasured or legandary rewards. So if you dont want to pay you can take the lesser reward and go on.</p></blockquote><p>How, exactly, does this punish the "paying players"? (Mind you, not that a silver or even bronze player is necessarily "non-paying" either).</p></blockquote><p>Firstly you reduce the value of the items thus resulting in an item nerf, second when he says "paying players" i believe he is reffering to people who subscribe <em>rather then buy fluff or unlockers</em>. If you dont have a sub then deal with the restrictions or fork out money for a sub. as for those that dont sub but still spend money: the money you are spending is on <em>items</em> as opposed to a <em>subscription</em>. the difference is you are ether buying items which will persist as long as SOE sees fit as opposed to paying for a <em>rental</em> of features.</p><p>In ether case doing this would errode a reason to subscribe so it's not gonna happen.</p>

Felshades
01-20-2012, 01:36 AM
<p><cite>General_Info wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Altom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>akin99 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span style="color: #ff00ff;">If they reduce the quest items to only treasured that punishes the paying players.</span> So obviouly you dont want to anger your paying customers.<p>Now while it is work for SOE a nice comprimise would be to make all quests offer treasured or legandary rewards. So if you dont want to pay you can take the lesser reward and go on.</p></blockquote><p>How, exactly, does this punish the "paying players"? (Mind you, not that a silver or even bronze player is necessarily "non-paying" either).</p></blockquote><p>Firstly you reduce the value of the items thus resulting in an item nerf, second when he says "paying players" i believe he is reffering to people who subscribe <em>rather then buy fluff or unlockers</em>. If you dont have a sub then deal with the restrictions or fork out money for a sub. as for those that dont sub but still spend money: the money you are spending is on <em>items</em> as opposed to a <em>subscription</em>. the difference is you are ether buying items which will persist as long as SOE sees fit as opposed to paying for a <em>rental</em> of features.</p><p>In ether case doing this would errode a reason to subscribe so it's not gonna happen.</p></blockquote><p>in more cases than you'd think, those folks playing silver accounts pay more than gold.</p><p>Which is exactly what f2p is all about. Why give it free with a sub when they can nickel and dime you and people will still pay it?</p>

General_Info
01-20-2012, 01:29 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>in more cases than you'd think, those folks playing silver accounts pay more than gold.<p>Which is exactly what f2p is all about. Why give it free with a sub when they can nickel and dime you and people will still pay it?</p></blockquote><p>The whole point of going F2P is to lure in those that can't afford a sub but are happy to play with the restrictions and spend money on items.</p><p>As for those that can spend $15 or more on items a month, dont sub have no right to complain about the F2P restrictions they've got the cash and they choose to spend it on items instead of a subscription.</p><p>It doesn't matter how much money someone spends a month on items if they aren't using 15 dollars for a subscription they aren't entitled to bypass the restrictions.</p>

Ilavatar
01-23-2012, 01:59 AM
<p>I added the suggestions here to the thread: <span >Consolidated F2P Wish List</span></p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=513457" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=513457</a></p><p>That thread is focused just on suggested features to add to F2P. Please keep all flames on the pros/cons of F2P in other threads. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p>

Amarillan
01-23-2012, 02:06 AM
<p>The part about this that p****d me off is on my second account, my conjuror can no longer use her mythical ......  When you think about the hoops that you are required to jump through to get it kinda blows to have it yanked away.</p>

General_Info
01-23-2012, 02:28 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The part about this that p****d me off is on my second account, my conjuror can no longer use her mythical ......  When you think about the hoops that you are required to jump through to get it kinda blows to have it yanked away.</p></blockquote><p>be thankful you can even play before you have to fork out $15 upfront. now you can choose between ether subbing, using unlockers or leaving.</p>

Gisallo
01-23-2012, 06:36 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>DrkVsr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; color: #993300; font-size: medium;">The problem is with people thinking 'F2P' stands for 'Free to Play', it doesn't, it stands for '<em>Fee</em> to <em>Pay</em>'</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS; color: #993300; font-size: medium;">The reason SOE is turning all it's games 'Fee to Pay' is because think it is 'Free to Play' end up paying more than those who paid a monthly rental</span></p></blockquote><p>Welcome to why no new games are coming out that have a subscription basis.</p><p>New games are being developed with microtransactions as a main or sole payment plan in mind. Either you pay out the nose to buy and unlock stuff or you lame yourself.</p></blockquote><p>Really?  Rift is sub.  SWOTR is sub.  Secret World is rumoured to be sub.  Right now the only games going f2p are the games that feel they HAVE to because they can not make money with a sub.  Case in point EQ2 whose sub rates plummeted from TSO onwards or the new Trion MMORTS game because people who play RTS games likely won't wrap their heads around a sub based game since they never had to pay one before for that genre.</p><p>Yes some games are indeed being designed with Microtransaction in mind but like Lars Buttler said, different games can sustain different financial models.  Saying "everything is going f2p" is drinking the Smedly koolaid to dodge the fact that there games have thus far gone f2p because due to marketing and design failures on THEIR end THEY killed recurring subscriptions as a viable revenue stream.</p>

Blissa2362
01-24-2012, 12:33 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>DrkVsr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; color: #993300; font-size: medium;">The problem is with people thinking 'F2P' stands for 'Free to Play', it doesn't, it stands for '<em>Fee</em> to <em>Pay</em>'</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS; color: #993300; font-size: medium;">The reason SOE is turning all it's games 'Fee to Pay' is because think it is 'Free to Play' end up paying more than those who paid a monthly rental</span></p></blockquote><p>Welcome to why no new games are coming out that have a subscription basis.</p><p>New games are being developed with microtransactions as a main or sole payment plan in mind. Either you pay out the nose to buy and unlock stuff or you lame yourself.</p></blockquote><p>Really?  Rift is sub.  SWOTR is sub.  Secret World is rumoured to be sub.  Right now the only games going f2p are the games that feel they HAVE to because they can not make money with a sub.  Case in point EQ2 whose sub rates plummeted from TSO onwards or the new Trion MMORTS game because people who play RTS games likely won't wrap their heads around a sub based game since they never had to pay one before for that genre.</p><p>Yes some games are indeed being designed with Microtransaction in mind but like Lars Buttler said, different games can sustain different financial models.  Saying "everything is going f2p" is drinking the Smedly koolaid to dodge the fact that there games have thus far gone f2p because due to marketing and design failures on THEIR end THEY killed recurring subscriptions as a viable revenue stream.</p></blockquote><p>I 100% agree with what you said. The only reason why EQ2 is f2p right now is because Sony burned many bridges with people and drove them away. Now they are scrambeling to make as much money as they can before they are forced to shut the game down.</p>

Raknid
01-24-2012, 12:36 PM
<p>Heck, even FFXIV is charging a sub now after being TRULY free to play for the longest time.</p>

Dreyco
01-24-2012, 08:11 PM
<p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heck, even FFXIV is charging a sub now after being TRULY free to play for the longest time.</p></blockquote><p>Terrible falacy.  They went "Free to Play" because the game was released a disaster, and they had to do something if they were going to maintain players.  They weren't going to keep it that way forever.</p>

Griffildur
01-25-2012, 08:53 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I 100% agree with what you said. The only reason why EQ2 is f2p right now is because Sony burned many bridges with people and drove them away. Now they are scrambeling to make as much money as they can before they are forced to shut the game down.</p></blockquote><p>Absolutely right,</p><p>Soe has destroyed their own game ( I don't really understand why though ... ) and had to go f2p or fold.</p><p>Now they will still fold just a bit later. There's obviously no desire to keep it going.</p><p>The change in direction was ridiculous. Eq2 now cater to all the idiots who are happy to see and pay for a pink plushie and don't care about the game itself. Whoever said this was Barbie online is absolutely right. Eq2 now attracts exactly the type of crowd we never wanted here. Shame really since there really is a big market out there for a game like eq2 was a few years back. Subs didn't drop because there was no market, they dropped because SOE stopped caring about their own game and messed it up badly.</p><p>What do we have now ? The wow idiots and the cow clickers. Awesome, isn't it ?</p>

yohann koldheart
01-25-2012, 09:04 AM
<p><cite>Elestial wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am a silver player and do not mind buying unlockers at higher levels. However, I recently created 2 new characters and started the level 20 quest armor with one of them to find the armor has been changed to legendary! I ended up just making them some mastercrafted and skipping the quests since I couldn't use the reward. It is ashame that f2p can't use the rewards from questing without unlocking it the majority of the time. And at lower levels it doesn't make sense to unlock items since leveling happens so quickly. It would make more sense to provide usuable rewards for all players under level 50 or 60 since the game is a questing game.</p></blockquote><p>they dont need need to provide anything , you choose to play with the F2P model so if you want to use legendary + you buy a  unlocker.</p><p>nothing needs to change with the gear restrictions .</p>

Raknid
01-25-2012, 11:16 AM
<p><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heck, even FFXIV is charging a sub now after being TRULY free to play for the longest time.</p></blockquote><p>Terrible falacy.  They went "Free to Play" because the game was released a disaster, and they had to do something if they were going to maintain players.  They weren't going to keep it that way forever.</p></blockquote><p>What fallacy?</p><p>I was adding to the list of sub games that was a couple posts up from mine by noting that they moved from F2P (for whatever reason they were there intially) to charging a sub without a F2P option.</p>

Peogia
01-25-2012, 11:23 AM
<p><cite>akin99 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Elestial wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am a silver player and do not mind buying unlockers at higher levels. However, I recently created 2 new characters and started the level 20 quest armor with one of them to find the armor has been changed to legendary! I ended up just making them some mastercrafted and skipping the quests since I couldn't use the reward. It is ashame that f2p can't use the rewards from questing without unlocking it the majority of the time. And at lower levels it doesn't make sense to unlock items since leveling happens so quickly. It would make more sense to provide usuable rewards for all players under level 50 or 60 since the game is a questing game.</p></blockquote><p>If they reduce the quest items to only treasured that punishes the paying players. So obviouly you dont want to anger your paying customers.</p><p>Now while it is work for SOE a nice comprimise would be to make all quests offer treasured or legandary rewards. So if you dont want to pay you can take the lesser reward and go on.</p></blockquote><p>Lol on reduce angers the paying customers... those items been treasured for 7 years they only changed for EQ2X for cash grab</p><p>While there at it they should make all questing monthly fee only and FTP a grind fest and charge a monthly fee to cast spells like there star wars clone game I heard about </p><p>here</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BGdhFXwRuyc#t=1917s" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...FXwRuyc#t=1917s</a></p>

Nrgy
01-25-2012, 04:16 PM
<p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heck, even FFXIV is charging a sub now after being TRULY free to play for the longest time.</p></blockquote><p>Terrible falacy.  They went "Free to Play" because the game was released a disaster, and they had to do something if they were going to maintain players.  They weren't going to keep it that way forever.</p></blockquote><p>What fallacy?</p><p>I was adding to the list of sub games that was a couple posts up from mine by noting that they moved from F2P (for whatever reason they were there intially) to charging a sub without a F2P option.</p></blockquote><p>Why a game model changed <strong>TO</strong> F2P is equally as important as why they changed <strong>FROM</strong> F2P... you're trying to say "Look at all these Sub games w/o any F2P model"  but you're not saying anything about the F2P games that far outnumber the games with subs.</p><p>F2P model totals 126: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free_massively_multiplayer_online_games">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...er_online_games</a></p><ul><li>F2P full free = 12</li><li>F2P w/Ads = 2</li><li>F2P w/ MicroTansactions = 80</li><li>F2P w/ Optional Sub = 26 <- EQ2 is in here</li><li>F2P still in Beta = 6</li></ul>

Raknid
01-25-2012, 04:34 PM
<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heck, even FFXIV is charging a sub now after being TRULY free to play for the longest time.</p></blockquote><p>Terrible falacy.  They went "Free to Play" because the game was released a disaster, and they had to do something if they were going to maintain players.  They weren't going to keep it that way forever.</p></blockquote><p>What fallacy?</p><p>I was adding to the list of sub games that was a couple posts up from mine by noting that they moved from F2P (for whatever reason they were there intially) to charging a sub without a F2P option.</p></blockquote><p>Why a game model changed <strong>TO</strong> F2P is equally as important as why they changed <strong>FROM</strong> F2P... you're trying to say "Look at all these Sub games w/o any F2P model"  but you're not saying anything about the F2P games that far outnumber the games with subs.</p><p>F2P model totals 126: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free_massively_multiplayer_online_games">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...er_online_games</a></p><ul><li>F2P full free = 12 <span style="color: #ff6600;">Allegiance, Astro battle, Crossfire, Gekkeiju Online, Infantry Online, Meridian 59 , PlaneShift, SubSpace, Terra, Urban Dead, Underlight, VATSIM </span></li><li>F2P w/Ads = 2 <span style="color: #ff6600;"><span>Anarchy Online, Jennifer Government: NationSta</span><span>tes</span></span></li><li>F2P w/ MicroTansactions = 80 <span style="color: #ff6600;">wayyy too many to list here but the BEST one I see is D&D online. If you think there is a better one there then tell me.</span></li><li>F2P w/ Optional Sub = 26 <- EQ2 is in here <span style="color: #ff6600;">Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures,Blood Wars,Club Penguin,CrimeCraft,Dofus,Everquest II,Face of Mankind,Forumwarz,Free Realms,Furcadia,Horseland,Knight Online,OGame,NEO Shifters,Pirates of the Caribbean Online,Puzzle Pirates,RuneScape,Rubies of Eventide,Ryzom,Second Life Shattered Galaxy,Tibia,Toontown Online,vSide,World of Warcraft,Wurm Online </span></li><li><span style="color: #ff6600;">That is some esteemed company right there. WoW really doesn't belong in my mind because of the lack of a cash shop, theirs is simply an unlimited time trial...just like EQ2 2 week trial had limits on chat and such.</span></li><li>F2P still in Beta = 6 <span style="color: #ff6600;">Earth Eternal, Mytheon, Nadirim, Phoenix Dynasty Online, Wyvern, Zombie Pandemic</span></li><li><span style="color: #ff6600;">Man I am sure happy that I have that bunch of F2P games to look forward to. </span></li></ul><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">You have sure convinced me that the state of AAA titles is going in the F2P direction.</span></p></blockquote><p>And here I was thinking we were talking about AAA MMOs, or in the case of some...wannabee AAA.</p>

Peogia
01-25-2012, 04:35 PM
<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heck, even FFXIV is charging a sub now after being TRULY free to play for the longest time.</p></blockquote><p>Terrible falacy.  They went "Free to Play" because the game was released a disaster, and they had to do something if they were going to maintain players.  They weren't going to keep it that way forever.</p></blockquote><p>What fallacy?</p><p>I was adding to the list of sub games that was a couple posts up from mine by noting that they moved from F2P (for whatever reason they were there intially) to charging a sub without a F2P option.</p></blockquote><p>Why a game model changed <strong>TO</strong> F2P is equally as important as why they changed <strong>FROM</strong> F2P... you're trying to say "Look at all these Sub games w/o any F2P model"  but you're not saying anything about the F2P games that far outnumber the games with subs.</p><p>F2P model totals 126: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free_massively_multiplayer_online_games">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...er_online_games</a></p><ul><li>F2P full free = 12</li><li>F2P w/Ads = 2</li><li>F2P w/ MicroTansactions = 80</li><li>F2P w/ Optional Sub = 26 <- EQ2 is in here</li><li>F2P still in Beta = 6</li></ul></blockquote><p>That lists a little out dated they have missed atleast 1 if not more</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNC3yv4lubc" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNC3yv4lubc</a></p>

Michayla
01-26-2012, 09:47 PM
<p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heck, even FFXIV is charging a sub now after being TRULY free to play for the longest time.</p></blockquote><p>Terrible falacy.  They went "Free to Play" because the game was released a disaster, and they had to do something if they were going to maintain players.  They weren't going to keep it that way forever.</p></blockquote><p>What fallacy?</p><p>I was adding to the list of sub games that was a couple posts up from mine by noting that they moved from F2P (for whatever reason they were there intially) to charging a sub without a F2P option.</p></blockquote><p>You really need to get your facts straight. FFXIV started out as a subscription model, where the subscription costed $12.99 to open the account. That gave you access to ONE character and ONE retainer (bazaar shop NPC). Each additional character and retainer was $1.00.</p><p>The moved TO F2P, as Dreyco said, because they fired the development team, let someone else take over and while they were planning and fixing stuff, the game was essentially treated as an extended, open beta. Why? Because the game was absolutely HORRID on release. The ONLY reason why the game was "free-to-play" was because the game itself was terrible, and was doing terribly. The dwindling subscriptions of FFXI, and the sale of other Square-Enix games was supporting FFXIV. All the players who were playing that game knew, from the day they went free-to-play, that they would eventually start charging subscriptions down the line or shut the game down completely.</p><p>They switched BACK to a subscription model just last month, after a YEAR of implementing fixes, patches, and updates.</p><p>Really, get your facts straight before you spew off (edited) like this. FFXIV was ALWAYS meant to be a subscription game from day one, just like its predecessor, FFXI.</p>