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View Full Version : So challenge rating doesn't affect rewards? Why?


Pixiewrath
12-27-2011, 08:50 AM
<p>I worked for 20 hours on my first dungeon. The challenge rating on that one got to 6.900 or so.After running it, I got 69 tokens after killing all mobs.After this, I spent 30 hours or more on making the sequel.Everything being balanced out to be a bit harder than the prequel, I end up with a challenge rating of 8.100.So I run this dungeon and when it's done I get 68 tokens.Thus, an easier dungeon actually rewards more tokens?I asked about it in general chat and people told me that the amount of tokens is based on amount of mobs placed.What is then the point of adding boss mobs and make mobs tougher and stronger if people are rewarded better for doing easier mobs?After adding some buffs to mobs using the new tier/level increase tools, I even managed to get 2 or 3 mobs up to epic level (or at least the epic horns surrounding their names) and those were incredibly tough to beat with a full group. But possible.Thus making the dungeon basically pointless because challenge doesn't really mean anything?Anyone else experiencing this odd phenomena?</p>

ShadowMunkie
12-27-2011, 02:34 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I worked for 20 hours on my first dungeon. The challenge rating on that one got to 6.900 or so.After running it, I got 69 tokens after killing all mobs.After this, I spent 30 hours or more on making the sequel.Everything being balanced out to be a bit harder than the prequel, I end up with a challenge rating of 8.100.So I run this dungeon and when it's done I get 68 tokens.Thus, an easier dungeon actually rewards more tokens?<strong>I asked about it in general chat and people told me that the amount of tokens is based on amount of mobs placed.</strong>What is then the point of adding boss mobs and make mobs tougher and stronger if people are rewarded better for doing easier mobs?<em>After adding some buffs to mobs using the new tier/level increase tools,</em> I even managed to get 2 or 3 mobs up to epic level (or at least the epic horns surrounding their names) and those were incredibly tough to beat with a full group. But possible.Thus making the dungeon basically pointless because challenge doesn't really mean anything?Anyone else experiencing this odd phenomena?</p></blockquote><p>Bold is WRONG.</p><p>Italic is the reason. Basically the Increase of Tier/Level items are bugged and decrease the amount of token one gets from the dungeon. Remove those items and then run the dungeon and it should be back to 100 challenge rating equalling 1 token.</p>

Pixiewrath
12-27-2011, 03:50 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I worked for 20 hours on my first dungeon. The challenge rating on that one got to 6.900 or so.After running it, I got 69 tokens after killing all mobs.After this, I spent 30 hours or more on making the sequel.Everything being balanced out to be a bit harder than the prequel, I end up with a challenge rating of 8.100.So I run this dungeon and when it's done I get 68 tokens.Thus, an easier dungeon actually rewards more tokens?<strong>I asked about it in general chat and people told me that the amount of tokens is based on amount of mobs placed.</strong>What is then the point of adding boss mobs and make mobs tougher and stronger if people are rewarded better for doing easier mobs?<em>After adding some buffs to mobs using the new tier/level increase tools,</em> I even managed to get 2 or 3 mobs up to epic level (or at least the epic horns surrounding their names) and those were incredibly tough to beat with a full group. But possible.Thus making the dungeon basically pointless because challenge doesn't really mean anything?Anyone else experiencing this odd phenomena?</p></blockquote><p>Bold is WRONG.</p><p>Italic is the reason. Basically the Increase of Tier/Level items are bugged and decrease the amount of token one gets from the dungeon. Remove those items and then run the dungeon and it should be back to 100 challenge rating equalling 1 token.</p></blockquote><p>I'd rather wait for this to be fixed as I want my dungeon to give some challenge. If I remove the buffs it will become way too easy and just another grinding dungeon in the mass...</p>

ShadowMunkie
12-27-2011, 04:27 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I worked for 20 hours on my first dungeon. The challenge rating on that one got to 6.900 or so.After running it, I got 69 tokens after killing all mobs.After this, I spent 30 hours or more on making the sequel.Everything being balanced out to be a bit harder than the prequel, I end up with a challenge rating of 8.100.So I run this dungeon and when it's done I get 68 tokens.Thus, an easier dungeon actually rewards more tokens?<strong>I asked about it in general chat and people told me that the amount of tokens is based on amount of mobs placed.</strong>What is then the point of adding boss mobs and make mobs tougher and stronger if people are rewarded better for doing easier mobs?<em>After adding some buffs to mobs using the new tier/level increase tools,</em> I even managed to get 2 or 3 mobs up to epic level (or at least the epic horns surrounding their names) and those were incredibly tough to beat with a full group. But possible.Thus making the dungeon basically pointless because challenge doesn't really mean anything?Anyone else experiencing this odd phenomena?</p></blockquote><p>Bold is WRONG.</p><p>Italic is the reason. Basically the Increase of Tier/Level items are bugged and decrease the amount of token one gets from the dungeon. Remove those items and then run the dungeon and it should be back to 100 challenge rating equalling 1 token.</p></blockquote><p>I'd rather wait for this to be fixed as I want my dungeon to give some challenge. If I remove the buffs it will become way too easy and just another grinding dungeon in the mass...</p></blockquote><p>I was simply stating why it was wrong and gave you how to check to see if it was correct information. I already know the Increase Tier/Level are bugged but, I simply implored that you run it to test for yourself if you wanted comfirmation.</p>

Pixiewrath
12-27-2011, 07:39 PM
<p>I see. Maybe the devs mixed up decrease/increase tiers and levels with each other. That being said, I haven't tested out the decreasing ones vs none.</p>

Pixiewrath
12-27-2011, 08:38 PM
<p>Edit. Deleted this post.</p>

Corydonn
12-28-2011, 12:09 AM
<p>Every 100 challenge rating is a token. No questions asked. You probably missed a few mobs.</p>

CatamanderEQ2
12-28-2011, 03:48 AM
<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Every 100 challenge rating is a token. No questions asked. You probably missed a few mobs.</p></blockquote><p>There is a wee bit of bugginess with this. I made a dungeon with a challenge rating of rough 20,700 but it only yields 204 marks.  If the Increase Tier (Single) bug is the cause of it, then the bug must be significant becuase there are only a couple of those in the whole dungeon.  </p><p>I generally calculate that it's more like 102 challenge rating per mark based on my experience.  </p><p>I'm almost done building the basics of one that is 23,700 challenge points.  I will test-run it tomorrow before going back in to do decoration and mob flavor and see exactly how many tokens it yields, but I an betting more like 233 or so.</p>

Pixiewrath
12-28-2011, 09:51 AM
<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Every 100 challenge rating is a token. No questions asked. You probably missed a few mobs.</p></blockquote><p>Questions are definitely asked, and it was my own dungeon so I am pretty sure I didnt miss 11 mobs -_-Something is bugged because if challenge was 100 / token I would have gotten around 97 tokens after tweaking it a bit, but it yielded only around 85.Also I have noticed I get less exp from mobs that have buffs contra "normal" mobs. Buffed ones gives me 105 exp, while non-buffed ones give me 255 or sth like that. Something is definitely off here.</p>

ShadowMunkie
12-28-2011, 10:49 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Every 100 challenge rating is a token. No questions asked. You probably missed a few mobs.</p></blockquote><p>Questions are definitely asked, and it was my own dungeon so I am pretty sure I didnt miss 11 mobs -_-Something is bugged because if challenge was 100 / token I would have gotten around 97 tokens after tweaking it a bit, but it yielded only around 85.<strong>Also I have noticed I get less exp from mobs that have buffs contra "normal" mobs. Buffed ones gives me 105 exp, while non-buffed ones give me 255 or sth like that. Something is definitely off here.</strong></p></blockquote><p>Are you taking into account for Vitality?</p><p>Vitality will be used int eh first half of the dungeon vs the last half.</p>

Pixiewrath
12-28-2011, 02:01 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Every 100 challenge rating is a token. No questions asked. You probably missed a few mobs.</p></blockquote><p>Questions are definitely asked, and it was my own dungeon so I am pretty sure I didnt miss 11 mobs -_-Something is bugged because if challenge was 100 / token I would have gotten around 97 tokens after tweaking it a bit, but it yielded only around 85.<strong>Also I have noticed I get less exp from mobs that have buffs contra "normal" mobs. Buffed ones gives me 105 exp, while non-buffed ones give me 255 or sth like that. Something is definitely off here.</strong></p></blockquote><p>Are you taking into account for Vitality?</p><p>Vitality will be used int eh first half of the dungeon vs the last half.</p></blockquote><p>What's vitality? I have never heard of that before in dungeon maker talk.</p>

ShadowMunkie
12-28-2011, 02:09 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Every 100 challenge rating is a token. No questions asked. You probably missed a few mobs.</p></blockquote><p>Questions are definitely asked, and it was my own dungeon so I am pretty sure I didnt miss 11 mobs -_-Something is bugged because if challenge was 100 / token I would have gotten around 97 tokens after tweaking it a bit, but it yielded only around 85.<strong>Also I have noticed I get less exp from mobs that have buffs contra "normal" mobs. Buffed ones gives me 105 exp, while non-buffed ones give me 255 or sth like that. Something is definitely off here.</strong></p></blockquote><p>Are you taking into account for Vitality?</p><p>Vitality will be used int eh first half of the dungeon vs the last half.</p></blockquote><p>What's vitality? I have never heard of that before in dungeon maker talk.</p></blockquote><p>Vitality has nothing to do with Dungeon Maker, it has to do with your actual Character. The experience that you actually obtain is modified by Experience Potions, Vitality and Veteran Bonus of your ACTUAL character. So if your character has Vitality then you will earn more experience from killing mobs.</p>

Pixiewrath
12-28-2011, 07:49 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Every 100 challenge rating is a token. No questions asked. You probably missed a few mobs.</p></blockquote><p>Questions are definitely asked, and it was my own dungeon so I am pretty sure I didnt miss 11 mobs -_-Something is bugged because if challenge was 100 / token I would have gotten around 97 tokens after tweaking it a bit, but it yielded only around 85.<strong>Also I have noticed I get less exp from mobs that have buffs contra "normal" mobs. Buffed ones gives me 105 exp, while non-buffed ones give me 255 or sth like that. Something is definitely off here.</strong></p></blockquote><p>Are you taking into account for Vitality?</p><p>Vitality will be used int eh first half of the dungeon vs the last half.</p></blockquote><p>What's vitality? I have never heard of that before in dungeon maker talk.</p></blockquote><p>Vitality has nothing to do with Dungeon Maker, it has to do with your actual Character. The experience that you actually obtain is modified by Experience Potions, Vitality and Veteran Bonus of your ACTUAL character. So if your character has Vitality then you will earn more experience from killing mobs.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, but you said we get vitality in the end and start of the dungeon, and that is nothing I have experienced.My char has been 90 really long so my vitality bonus is at 200 % constantly. I see no connection to getting more exp on non-buffed mobs and having vitality as my vitality should be on during the entire dungeon.</p>

Spelchek
12-28-2011, 09:23 PM
<p>always look at the exp you are awareded.  that is a good indicator of how many tokens you get.  If you notice no buffs except the bugged buffs effect exp (and then only negitivly... or however it's spelled)</p>

Pixiewrath
12-29-2011, 12:49 AM
<p>But a mob that is severedly buffed should award more tokens/exp than a mob that is weak.It doesn't make sense that a mob that singlehandedly almost beats me gives less than half of a mob I kill in a few seconds...I wish this gets fixed, because otherwise we will just keep seeing these "kill 500 weak mobs" dungeons keep popping up.</p>

Spelchek
12-29-2011, 12:54 AM
<p>unfortuantly the 1 teir below give the same exp as 1 teir above mobs... 135 or something, when 270 is the norm.  but i'm sure their working on it... as of now, it's just fun to make dungeons where the mobs say what you want and can have a 2k item limit!!!</p><p>there will be lots or re-edited dungeons after they fix it and some zones will have to restart all their rating, such is life.</p>

ShadowMunkie
12-29-2011, 05:51 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Every 100 challenge rating is a token. No questions asked. You probably missed a few mobs.</p></blockquote><p>Questions are definitely asked, and it was my own dungeon so I am pretty sure I didnt miss 11 mobs -_-Something is bugged because if challenge was 100 / token I would have gotten around 97 tokens after tweaking it a bit, but it yielded only around 85.<strong>Also I have noticed I get less exp from mobs that have buffs contra "normal" mobs. Buffed ones gives me 105 exp, while non-buffed ones give me 255 or sth like that. Something is definitely off here.</strong></p></blockquote><p>Are you taking into account for Vitality?</p><p>Vitality will be used int eh first half of the dungeon vs the last half.</p></blockquote><p>What's vitality? I have never heard of that before in dungeon maker talk.</p></blockquote><p>Vitality has nothing to do with Dungeon Maker, it has to do with your actual Character. The experience that you actually obtain is modified by Experience Potions, Vitality and Veteran Bonus of your ACTUAL character. So if your character has Vitality then you will earn more experience from killing mobs.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, but you said we get vitality in the end and start of the dungeon, and that is nothing I have experienced.My char has been 90 really long so my vitality bonus is at 200 % constantly. I see no connection to getting more exp on non-buffed mobs and having vitality as my vitality should be on during the entire dungeon.</p></blockquote><p>I never said you GET vitality in the end and start of a dungeon. I said you USE the vitality of your character at the very beginning of the dungeon. Vitality has a 100% cap and gets use EXTREMELY fast in dungeon maker zones. This is probably what you are seeing, you are using the vitality at the very start of the zones and at the end of the zone you do not have any to use so you will get less EXP from the mobs towards the end of the dungeon.</p><p>Also you do not have a STATIC 200% Vitality Bonus. Vitality is used whenever you kill something, its gained whenever you don't kill something for an hour at a rate of 0.5% per hour or so. If you haven't killed something for exactly 1 week you will be at 100% vitality which will award your character an Experience Bonus of 200% while you still have vitality however, once you use all the Vitality you will no long be receiving that bonus.</p>

Pixiewrath
12-29-2011, 09:26 AM
<p>And I am saying this is not the case. My vitality is at full from start to end, at least to the level I should get it through the entire dungeon. I get bonus on normal mobs outside the dungeon and the "end of vitality" arrow is nowhere near on this level.Some buffed mobs, or most, give less exp/tokens than non-buffed mobs. Maybe this is only on the newest buffs, I am not sure.As others have pointed out, some buffs are bugged, and that makes sense as I get more exp in my easiest dungeon than in the harder one I just built. And that one uses more buffs because of the newly added buffs in the marketplace.</p>

ShadowMunkie
12-29-2011, 11:36 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As others have pointed out, <strong>some buffs are bugged</strong>, and that makes sense as I get more exp in my easiest dungeon than in the harder one I just built. And that one uses more buffs because of the newly added buffs in the marketplace.</p></blockquote><p>I pointed that out in the very first response to this thread.</p><p>Increase Tier: Experience Bug - Reduced the amount of experience one gets.Decrease Level/Tier (All): Reduces the amount of tokens you get.</p><p>These are bugged, I pointed it out in the very first response by saying:</p><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Basically the Increase of Tier/Level items are bugged and decrease the amount of token one gets from the dungeon.</p></blockquote><p>I didn't touch on the Decrease Level/Tier because I didn't know it was bugged at the time.</p>

CatamanderEQ2
12-29-2011, 01:06 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But a mob that is severedly buffed should award more tokens/exp than a mob that is weak.It doesn't make sense that a mob that singlehandedly almost beats me gives less than half of a mob I kill in a few seconds...I wish this gets fixed, because otherwise we will just keep seeing these "kill 500 weak mobs" dungeons keep popping up.</p></blockquote><p>Well, this bug only seems to affect the up-tier-single and up-level-single effects.</p><p>The +vitality +battle prowess and +procs/power all still increase marks earned.  So I can add dps, hp, and a nasty knockback-stun-dd effect to a room full of mobs and more than double (even triple) their token value.</p><p>It's only the +level and +tier effects that seem to produce the opposite effect for token value.</p><p>Now for XP, what I have noticed is that even if I have identical mobs with identical effects on them, the first mobs of the dungeon are worth a lot more than later mobs.  It seems there is some kind of innate diminishing return in the XP in the dungeons.  I have no idea why this would be the case, but it is one more of many design flaws that encourage very short simple dungeons and might make some players shy away from longer and larger dungeons.</p>

Calabeth
12-29-2011, 06:32 PM
<p>Ok Catamander already stated the main thing I was going to post about. This being the clarification of which buff items are bugged regarding token and xp rates.</p><p>I Do want to add to that what I have seen is beyond the lesser xp and the spawning of a dbl down which yields no xp and bug a avatars animation to still be in combat until after another fight. To me it seems like beyond not providing the increased mark gain of a few mobs, it actually cancels all token gains from a mob. Reason I say this is I did a test run with a dungeon using it only on 2 boss mobs which alone are worth 1 mark. When I ran thru with the extra boosted rating I should have had 1 mark extra overall. Instead I was short 3 marks from that run compared to what I should have recieved.</p><p>Now in regards to the average xp gains. This I know for sure as a positive fact and some have mentioned earlier. XP gains IN the dungeon ARE affected by potions, vitality, veteran bonus. I have went thru the dungeon on a few toons with full vitality and left with no xp from start to finish. But I did verify vitality before entering and exiting. It did change, on one short run I still had plenty of vitality left so I claimed one of my early low xp boost potions popped and entered the same dungeon. Result boosted xp on the kills compared to first run thru.</p><p>Need anymore clarification on the xp gained, test it yourself with a dungeon that has an ent and exit at the start. check vitality lvl before entering, hop in kill a few for xp base. Exit check your vitality. Go adventure or run dungeons etc.. until your vitality is exhausted. Enter the previous dungeon you tested make a few kills and check the xp then.</p><p>If still confused and wanting to talk about it send me a tell at either Calabeth or Calrasai on permafrost.</p>