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View Full Version : How do the dungeon system awards work? (raging raging raging)


Fyrstar2004
12-14-2011, 02:25 PM
<p>Are there little elves that just randomly award things?  I mean, come on.  I'm going to rage!</p><p>I'm looking at the Dungeon Maker page on the Crushborn server.  I have 16 reviews, all 5s.  It's under Crushbone Keep, called Frosty Feracious Funhouse of Fear.  I have NO awards.</p><p>I then look at someone with three reviews, all 5s.  They have awards aplenty.  It's called Fortress of Doooooom, under Lair of Scale. The only difference that I see is that theirs was out for a day longer than mine, but even that is screwy, because mine was done three days ago, but it says it was only done a day and 19 hours ago.</p><p>Here's another one... done six hours AFTER mine.  Two reviews, awards aplenty there too!  Forgotten Lair, under Chardok.  </p><p>What in the blazes is going on here?  It's bad enough that I can't edit my dungeon to keep the monsters from dropping through floors and aggroing through walls without losing my ratings, or that when you pull one mob the whole darn room comes because it aggros floors above them, but now I can't get rewarded for what DOES work?</p><p>Come on people!!!!</p>

Corydonn
12-14-2011, 02:30 PM
<p>Awards are based on who is at the top of the (Recent) leaderboards at the time of the awards.</p><p>And if your dungeon is ahead of someone elses at anytime, Expect to get some downvoters.</p>

Gaealiege
12-14-2011, 02:39 PM
<p>Yeah, we see this often.  Bink's dungeon on Butcherblock server has over 60 5s and he doesn't have a single award.  The system allows for players that are griefing sacks of refuse to go in and vote down people so that they obtain awards.</p>

Fyrstar2004
12-14-2011, 02:42 PM
<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Awards are based on who is at the top of the (Recent) leaderboards at the time of the awards.</p><p>And if your dungeon is ahead of someone elses at anytime, Expect to get some downvoters.</p></blockquote><p>This seems to be an arbitrary way of voting, with no incentive to continue to publish new content.  This system makes no sense to me, as it should reward you with tiers of rewards based on INDIVIDUAL voting results.</p><p>This means that if no one runs my dungeon at all unless I publish it at the top secret set time and ONE person runs it, then I get no awards, even if my dungeon roflstomps theirs in time, effort, and design.</p><p>The heck with it.  I'm not making any more dungeons.  I spent over 2300plat in making that dungeon in mats, spawners, items to place in it, grinding instances like Frostfell to get tiles and walls, and now I'm not going to get awards because I didn't post it at the right time?!?!??!!?!  And people that I'm beating in a certain period can downvote me to beat me?!?!??!!?!?!?!?!</p><p>I'm done.  I'm just going to make my dungeons without mobs and use them as alternate home storage and never publish. I'll open them up to showcase what I can do to perspective clients.  </p><p>Way to go, Sony.  Maybe I'll just crank out a dozen or so token farming ones with little to no effort, like the current system encourages.  Who cares if I get rewards, right Sony?  At least I'll get the tokens when they run it, and I can farm my own dungeon then.</p>

Raknid
12-14-2011, 02:45 PM
<p>Ahh....another satisfied customer. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Fyrstar2004
12-14-2011, 02:55 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah, we see this often.  Bink's dungeon on Butcherblock server has over 60 5s and he doesn't have a single award.  The system allows for players that are griefing sacks of refuse to go in and vote down people so that they obtain awards.</p></blockquote><p>I can already see some of the responses....</p><p>-Who cares?  It's just a trophy.</p><p>-Sux to be you!  roflolragemoarbbq</p><p>-Working as intended</p><p>Seriously.  I held off tearing down my dungeon to fix pathing because I didnt want to lose my ratings, but now?  Down it comes.  I'm going to rip out all those carefully placed mobs and just set packs of three every 20 feet, take out pathers, flavor, stories, everything.  Why bother with a decent dungeon?  Why?  WHY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?</p><p>-Suggested fix</p><p>For every X amount of votes, said person gets an award.  Period.  No time periods involved.  If it takes me two years to get into the hall of fame, so be it, but my hard work gets recognized.</p><p>Another scenario:</p><p>Smokejumper works hard and puts out the next expansion on time and with rave reviews.  X MMO puts out a competing game two weeks later.  Purchases of the new game go skyhigh, with everyone raving about how good X MMO is after it's released.  Smokejumper's team did well on their expansion, but X MMO sold more during that one month.  </p><p>Now, Smokejumper doesn't get his little trophy to sit on the wall, showing a job well done.  Instead, Sony sends a trophy to the other company congratulating them because their work was more popular during that month, regardless of how hard SJ worked.</p><p>X MMO laughs at the trophy, loses it's subscriber base by 90% after the first three months, and just releases a new piece of garbage just in time to get ANOTHER trophy mailed to them by Sony.  In the meantime, SJ has quit and no more expansions are coming out.  Ever.</p><p>See?  Sucks to be Smokejumper.  Just like it SUCKS to work hard at a map.</p>

Corydonn
12-14-2011, 03:38 PM
<p>The best option I've found is to form group with fellow players and run your own dungeons with each other for marks/fun/experience and share the votes. Sure you'll still get the petty troll voters but you'll still make more friends and get higher reviews in the long run and you won't have the guilt trip of being a nonkosher gamer.</p>

Tylia
12-14-2011, 04:54 PM
<p>It's the same type of crap that is going on with the housing leaderboards, and is exactly the reason I won't participate.</p>

Tollymore
12-14-2011, 06:55 PM
<p>Fyrstar,</p><p>Can you hold off on that ? You're in Crushbone, right  ... I was going to nuke an unwanted character and make an alt there just to run it.</p>

Fyrstar2004
12-14-2011, 08:34 PM
<p><cite>Tollymore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Fyrstar,</p><p>Can you hold off on that ? You're in Crushbone, right  ... I was going to nuke an unwanted character and make an alt there just to run it.</p></blockquote><p>Sure.  I'll leave it up, I was actually raging so much I uninstalled EQ2.</p><p>I calmed down enough (I think), so I'll reinstall, but it's still up.</p>

Tayne
12-14-2011, 09:06 PM
<p><cite>Fyrstar2004 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>-Suggested fix</p><p>For every X amount of votes, said person gets an award.  Period.  No time periods involved.  If it takes me two years to get into the hall of fame, so be it, but my hard work gets recognized.</p></blockquote><p>I think this is reasonable .. a solid 25 votes with a 5 star rating gets a gold trophy, 4 star gets silver, 3 star gets bronze, etc ... and 50 and 100 votes at the various ratings get titles.</p>

Fyrstar2004
12-14-2011, 09:20 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Fyrstar2004 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>-Suggested fix</p><p>For every X amount of votes, said person gets an award.  Period.  No time periods involved.  If it takes me two years to get into the hall of fame, so be it, but my hard work gets recognized.</p></blockquote><p>I think this is reasonable .. a solid 25 votes with a 5 star rating gets a gold trophy, 4 star gets silver, 3 star gets bronze, etc ... and 50 and 100 votes at the various ratings get titles.</p></blockquote><p>I agree, Jayne.  And it repeats after that.  I don't see any reps posting on future rating plans, so it apparently may stay that way.  I'm drop dead serious.  After I reinstall EQ2, my dungeon is going down.  I'm going to haul everything out piece by piece and reassemble it in a larger instance where I can just slap mobs down in increments of three to make it easy enough that anyone can do it instead of challenging.  Then I'll farm my own in peace and contentment. That's what you want, right Sony?  No creativity, just roll em out by the dozens?  I promise, after this one is redone, I'll fit into your model, bossman Sony.  I'll put down 3 plants and hundreds of monsters.  YAY for conformity!</p><p>My dungeon is designed to be both beautiful AND hard.  Not as hard as it is, because mobs are pulled through the floor and ignore wall barriers, but it works.  Not many people will run through it twice, just because of the hall of mirrors.  THAT is hard.  I actually integrated the built in flaws with mirrors, taking into account both high graphics cards and low end.  Low end graphics show nothing but white, making the maze even more stunning.  The graphical bugs and anomalies created by the mirrors in high end cards result in ghosting, dual imaging, black flickering mirrors, and seeing through the maze walls into EQ2 void and nothingness.  Really, I put a LOT of time and thought into that maze.... took 150 mirrors to do it!  I cut WAY back on the mobs in that section, though, didn't want people to give up.  Anyone can handle the mobs in that maze solo, even when they're grouped up to 6 people.</p><p>This bullstuffing about 3 votes beats 16 just because they voted during a different timeframe is just that..... bullstuffing. Sure, it's to let the new guy get votes too, but wouldnt he get that ANYWAY just by posting it?   I play other people's dungeons too that have good ratings and rate it high if it's good.</p><div></div>

Tayne
12-14-2011, 09:28 PM
<p>Deep breath Fry. Deep breath.</p><p>If folks are going to "cheat" on the rating system and it's not going to change, then you need to step back and realize that you're making your dungeon because it's fun for YOU. At least that was how it was for me -- half the fun was putting it together.</p><p>Who cares what the yahoos think, in the end it's only a virtual trophy in a virtual world. The end-result is that you had fun building it. Y'know? I realize that ratings will often go hand in hand with more tokens, but I've watched 1-9 (at least on the Freeport server) and there are groups of people who seem to go run every one of them -- they start at the top and run down the ever-growing list.</p><p>Stay unique. Keep your dungeon. Others will stumble across it and be delighted by the extra time and care you took.</p>

Fyrstar2004
12-14-2011, 09:39 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Deep breath Fry. Deep breath.</p><p>If folks are going to "cheat" on the rating system and it's not going to change, then you need to step back and realize that you're making your dungeon because it's fun for YOU. At least that was how it was for me -- half the fun was putting it together.</p><p>Who cares what the yahoos think, in the end it's only a virtual trophy in a virtual world. The end-result is that you had fun building it. Y'know? I realize that ratings will often go hand in hand with more tokens, but I've watched 1-9 (at least on the Freeport server) and there are groups of people who seem to go run every one of them -- they start at the top and run down the ever-growing list.</p><p>Stay unique. Keep your dungeon. Others will stumble across it and be delighted by the extra time and care you took.</p></blockquote><p>Moofasssa...... moofasssaaaaaa..... deep breaths... deep breaths.........</p><p>Ah.... peace......</p><p>Logging into EQ2.... looking at Dungeon Maker.....</p><p>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA some map posted 5 minutes ago has 3 awards and I still don't have one?!?!?!?! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA  (runs around house throwing spoons in the microwave, sets the microwave for 20 minutes while screaming hysterically, mushroom cloud erupts over Richmond VA)</p>

Tayne
12-14-2011, 09:51 PM
<p>There. Feel better? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Now go make another dungeon with the simpler specs you described above in a different layout (you can have more than one, just not two of the same layout), and see how it goes.</p><p>Better yet, come make a toon on Freeport and make one for me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Fyrstar2004
12-14-2011, 09:54 PM
<p>Reroll and relevel another carpenter?  I spose I can.  Then we can rage together about no stupid awards<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

millie
12-14-2011, 10:13 PM
<p>Vote Early, Vote Often .... a great American tradition.  Although in this case it seems to be vote late, vote often. </p><p>Really: did anyone expect a different outcome from this sort of popularity contest? Of course it is being rigged.  It will always be manipulated and SOE wont care much because the rewards do not effect gameplay.</p>

msgnomer
12-14-2011, 10:26 PM
<p>To those wondering why they built a dungeon if they get no rewards - they do it for people like me.  I love the little touches, the finesse, the crafty mob placement.  Balancing hard against possible is not so easy.</p><p>In addition to giving out a high rating, I promise from now on to send a message to the maker when I run through a dungeon I enjoy.</p><p>Don't stop doing them.  I imagine getting a reward is nice, but I hope an appreciative audience counts for something too.</p>

Arkenor
12-14-2011, 10:49 PM
<p><cite>msgnomer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To those wondering why they built a dungeon if they get no rewards - they do it for people like me.  I love the little touches, the finesse, the crafty mob placement.  Balancing hard against possible is not so easy.</p><p>In addition to giving out a high rating, I promise from now on to send a message to the maker when I run through a dungeon I enjoy.</p><p>Don't stop doing them.  I imagine getting a reward is nice, but I hope an appreciative audience counts for something too.</p></blockquote><p>But if you don't have the score, you fall down the list and aren't going to get many visitors anyway. My dungeon with it's mere 90% approval rate from 13 visitors is way down the list, below all the ones with one or two visitors who mysteriously gave 100% to a dungeon filled with nothing but slugs, and I've not had a single visitor since I fell off the first page.</p><p>Once you get a single rating that is not 100%, that's it. You're never going to be top of the list, as you can never have a an overall 100% rating again. It's a ridiculous system.</p><p>Sure, I can just republish, but that resets everything. It just doesn't feel like making an effort to make a nice dungeon, or playing fair with visitors, is rewarded.</p>

Afista
12-14-2011, 11:35 PM
<p><cite>Fyrstar2004 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Seriously.  I held off tearing down my dungeon to fix pathing because I didnt want to lose my ratings, but now?  Down it comes.  I'm going to rip out all those carefully placed mobs and just set packs of three every 20 feet, take out pathers, flavor, stories, everything.  Why bother with a decent dungeon?  Why?  WHY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?</p></blockquote><p>Aaaah so you made that dungeon? Yes, please pull and fix pathing. Every mob aggros from your top floors to the bottom areas all at once. Things are not aggroing the way you intended I'm sure.</p><p>On the note of the rating system, this is something that's been discussed a LOT by anyone who decorated houses before the DYOD. It's allready been stated that there will be changes to the House Rating System now that expansion work is over, so I'd think that the DYOD system would be tweaked then too.</p>

Tayne
12-14-2011, 11:45 PM
<p>The other thing you have to realize, if it operates like the housing leaderboards and I believe it does, is that once a dungeon gets a certain amount of "awards" (it's 50 on the housing leaderboards) it is moved to the hall of fame, where it is taken out of the general population competition and competes against other hall of fame dungeons only.</p><p>What this means is that eventually, if you're patient, and your dungeon is truly award worthy, you'll get your trophy and tokens and attention. But with everything so new, of course folks are going to yank in friends to falsely elevate their score. It sucks, but it's human nature.</p><p>The best thing that can happen is these guys are moved over to the hall of fame as soon as possible and won't therefore affect your ratings. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

ZullieZevize
12-15-2011, 01:04 AM
<p>My 7 year old, has a 'Dungeon uf deth' (her spelling) on the freeport server.  Its barely playable, partially finished, 3 reviews (one by mommy, one by daddy, and one by a guildie)... Shes got 4 and half stars, and total of 5 awards.</p><p>Mine, on the other hand, has 57 reviews, a solid 4 stars, and zero awards.</p><p>We all know the system is flawed.. but unlike the housing system, the rankings matter more here.  Highest rated= ability to be found = more tokens by the designer.</p><p>The system should have some calculations taking total number of votes into consideration.</p>

Fyrstar2004
12-15-2011, 09:47 AM
<p><cite>msgnomer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To those wondering why they built a dungeon if they get no rewards - they do it for people like me.  I love the little touches, the finesse, the crafty mob placement.  Balancing hard against possible is not so easy.</p><p>In addition to giving out a high rating, I promise from now on to send a message to the maker when I run through a dungeon I enjoy.</p><p>Don't stop doing them.  I imagine getting a reward is nice, but I hope an appreciative audience counts for something too.</p></blockquote><p>That would be very nice of you!  I, for one, would def appreciate it=D  I'm going to make new toons just to run some of the most popular ones on every server if possible.</p>

Fyrstar2004
12-15-2011, 12:26 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The other thing you have to realize, if it operates like the housing leaderboards and I believe it does, is that once a dungeon gets a certain amount of "awards" (it's 50 on the housing leaderboards) it is moved to the hall of fame, where it is taken out of the general population competition and competes against other hall of fame dungeons only.</p><p>What this means is that eventually, if you're patient, and your dungeon is truly award worthy, you'll get your trophy and tokens and attention. But with everything so new, of course folks are going to yank in friends to falsely elevate their score. It sucks, but it's human nature.</p><p>The best thing that can happen is these guys are moved over to the hall of fame as soon as possible and won't therefore affect your ratings. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>The bad thing about this solution is that dungeons will constantly be put out, and new hall of famers will be awarded on some mysterious timeline, leaving highly rated/voted dungeons still unrecognized.</p>

Eyema
12-15-2011, 01:57 PM
If it really is copy/paste of the housing ratings, which i believe it is for the time being, the timing isnt mysterious. Its actually 9pm est, 6pm pst. all you need do is have a couple of guildies rate your dungeon about 5 minutes before that time and you automagically get put to the top of the recent list. Its worked for houses for months now, it can work for dungeons too. Want SOE to fix the system, take advantage of it, and throw it back at them.

Puddlejump
12-15-2011, 02:06 PM
<p>I agree that the rating system is open to being gamed and is at best a general guide as to what is good.</p><p>So I am giving your dungeon a try and the first room is really good and creative, I  love how you used the stairs to create a second level.  I'd love to give you a really high rating but...  I can't because I can't actually find a way to leave the room and proceed to the end of the dungeon.  There's a fence halfway across it and no way I can see to get beyond it.  I get that this is supposed to be a funhouse but there doesn't seem to be an opening of any sort.</p><p>It's possible - even very likely - I am clueless and missing something very obvious but even us clueless people play in dungeons and give ratings and stuff... love to hear how you are supposed to pass the fence and the icewall behind it, it is obviously a very well done dungeon and I'd like to see the rest.</p>

Troy
12-15-2011, 05:31 PM
<p>Dispite everything said here, the rating and award system is just plain - terribly flawed and exploitable. I have many awards for both house leaderboard and now in dungeons. I work hard on making all my virtual areas awesome as I can. But I do see so many houses and dungeons that are really bad and they have awards. That burns me up bigtime. Yes, its fun to make them but its also great to get the reconginition.</p><p>I often wonder how and why this rating system was made. (Must of been those Orcs who designed it). Seriously makes no sense and very deflating to those who work hard and should get awards and don't over some house or dungeon that has no thought or creativity.</p><p>I feel your pain Fyrstar...!</p><p>(There is also a thread dealing with this on homeshow below).</p>

Fyrstar2004
12-16-2011, 06:26 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>  I can't because I can't actually find a way to leave the room and proceed to the end of the dungeon.  There's a fence halfway across it and no way I can see to get beyond it.  I get that this is supposed to be a funhouse but there doesn't seem to be an opening of any sort.</p><p>It's possible - even very likely - I am clueless and missing something very obvious but even us clueless people play in dungeons and give ratings and stuff... love to hear how you are supposed to pass the fence and the icewall behind it, it is obviously a very well done dungeon and I'd like to see the rest.</p></blockquote><p>That first room is a riddle room.... how to get past it.  Since no one reads these forums anyway for the most part, here is the answer:</p><p>Jump on the bench, then the dresser, then the closet.  Jump up into the THIRD floor (that most people don't notice because it's just a crossbeam.  You'll see decorations up there and a mob to let you know you're in the right place). Use the crossbeams to cross over the fence.  There were mobs placed up there to aggro on you and give you a hint when they jump down to get you when you were close to the solution, but since they just fall through the floor and attack you upon zoning in, they don't work properly.  I'm holding off on editting it since I FINALLY got an award (don't know how either.  I haven't gotten any new votes since I started this post) in the hopes that floors will be line of sight blockers in a soon-to-come patch, and that will automatically fix all the errors occuring in the map.</p><p>That is meant to be a test of sorts meant to save people time.  If you can't beat the first one, you may have a tremendous amount of trouble with the mirror maze.  I wish you luck!</p><p>You actually flattered me, though=D  I had no idea that people were having trouble with the first room, I thought I made the puzzle too easy.  No offense to you, though.  I had four people test the first three puzzles before I put in the mobs.  1 out of 4 had trouble, but they figured it out after about 10 minutes.  It was ALWAYS that first room that was hard, but 3 out of 4 almost went insane at the mirror maze.  The fourth beat it in 15 seconds. TOTALLY infuriated me that he did it so easily.</p><p>Just because of that 1 out of 4, I almost redid the mirror maze and thought about lifting it to knee high distance from the floor and adding in manual pitfalls, but I didn't want people to have to quit the dungeon entirely just to get out of the pit.</p><p>Wait a sec.... brainstorming here..... lift the floor to second level, add in pitfalls that if you fall in, a well lit corridor will take you back to the beginning of the maze.  BRILLIANT!  You, sir/ma'am, have just helped me figure out an upgrade to that dungeon.  I'll implement it if they don't fix the walls/floors before Christmas Break.</p><p>Seriously, I have been in post partum depression since I finished that dungeon.  Just moping around and typing in 1-9 chat.  I think that it's time that dungeon and I spent some more quality time together.  I can add 5 more rooms, rename mobs, make bosses much larger, craft more items to make it purtier, oh, the joys I can have.</p><p>Here's an idea..... I need 5 ideas for 5 more rooms.  I can't tell you what's in there already 'cause I don't want to ruin the fun, but if you've played it you know.   If you can provide me with suggestions, if I take your suggestion I'll name the mobs in that room after you in some way.</p><p>Thanks everyone SO much for giving me my inspiration back=D</p>

Puddlejump
12-16-2011, 12:20 PM
<p>Thanks very much for the tips.  I tried to jump up on stuff before but must have been doing it wrong because I couldn't get up over the dresser.</p><p>The dungeon is off the charts on creativity and style, it really is excellent.  Unfortunately I still couldn't finish because I got trapped between a wall and a piece of decoration in the third room and was forced to leave. </p><p>It also seems clear this is intended as a group level dungeon as it is almost impossible to get through the mazes without aggroing unseen mobs that will easily overwhelm solo players.  I died repeatedly.  I suppose it is possible to go very slowly and avoid getting large groups but I am afraid I don't have the patience.</p><p>It really would help if the dungeon maker provided a difficulty rating as others have suggested.  If anyone is looking for a challenge which has imagination and flair this is a great dungeon to try.  Just beware getting stuck.</p><p>I would have been happy to top rate this but as I say I couldn't finish it.</p>

Elspith
12-16-2011, 12:55 PM
<p>But if your dungeon is way down the list and no one is visiting, would'nt it be a good idea to unpub and repub to bring it back to the top?  Real Estate Agents do this with listings.  Lower the price a bit and put it back on the market and renewed interest is there!</p><p>Just a thought.</p>

Jaffa Tamarin
12-16-2011, 02:27 PM
<p><cite>Fyrstar2004 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You actually flattered me, though=D  I had no idea that people were having trouble with the first room, I thought I made the puzzle too easy.  No offense to you, though.  I had four people test the first three puzzles before I put in the mobs.  1 out of 4 had trouble, but they figured it out after about 10 minutes.  It was ALWAYS that first room that was hard, but 3 out of 4 almost went insane at the mirror maze.  The fourth beat it in 15 seconds. TOTALLY infuriated me that he did it so easily.</p></blockquote><p>There's a trick where if you point your camera up enough most of the visual confusion from the mirrors disappears and you can just run it as a normal maze.  It took me a while to figure out, but after I found that it was easy.</p><p>The rating system is broken for dungeons.  I mean, your dungeon is awesome, but it took me well over an hour to run (solo, with running the mazes multiple times because I died trying to clear the mobs in later rooms), and there's no way I'm doing that again just so I can give it another rating in a new 24-hour voting period.  If you had the exit in the entrance room, and just had the rest of the dungeon for people to explore as far as they wanted, people could go and and give it a new rating without having to re-run the entire dungeon.</p>

Fyrstar2004
12-16-2011, 04:07 PM
<p><cite>Elspith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But if your dungeon is way down the list and no one is visiting, would'nt it be a good idea to unpub and repub to bring it back to the top?  Real Estate Agents do this with listings.  Lower the price a bit and put it back on the market and renewed interest is there!</p><p>Just a thought.</p></blockquote><p>The dungeon would lose all it's votes that it has to do that, and you can't change the name.  People that already ran it wouldnt be interested in seeing it all again.  </p>

Fyrstar2004
12-16-2011, 04:16 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The dungeon is off the charts on creativity and style, it really is excellent.  Unfortunately I still couldn't finish because I got trapped between a wall and a piece of decoration in the third room and was forced to leave. </p><p>It also seems clear this is intended as a group level dungeon as it is almost impossible to get through the mazes without aggroing unseen mobs that will easily overwhelm solo players.  I died repeatedly.  I suppose it is possible to go very slowly and avoid getting large groups but I am afraid I don't have the patience.</p><p>It really would help if the dungeon maker provided a difficulty rating as others have suggested.  If anyone is looking for a challenge which has imagination and flair this is a great dungeon to try.  Just beware getting stuck.</p><p>I would have been happy to top rate this but as I say I couldn't finish it.</p></blockquote><p>Where did you get stuck?  I'll try to fix it.</p><p>Someone else said to add the dungeon exit at the beginning  I think I'll put it at the beginning of the revamped maze, or halfway through.</p><p>Thanks for the creativity compliment.  Really, monsters, IMO, destroyed the challenge.  I didnt want to put them in until the fourth room, but people wants tokens=D  I'll start redoing it tonight, add a few more room and make some changes. I'll have it back up by Monday.  I'll also add some tips and hints through the use of personalized greeting cards scattered throughout!  (heheheh)</p><p>I used to design maps for W3, so I really miss trigger events and conditions, but I make do with what I'm given.  See ya'll in two days!  I'm taking it down at 7pm EST tonight.</p>

Puddlejump
12-16-2011, 04:54 PM
<p><cite>Fyrstar2004 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Where did you get stuck?  I'll try to fix it.</p><p>Someone else said to add the dungeon exit at the beginning  I think I'll put it at the beginning of the revamped maze, or halfway through.</p><p>Thanks for the creativity compliment.  Really, monsters, IMO, destroyed the challenge.  I didnt want to put them in until the fourth room, but people wants tokens=D  I'll start redoing it tonight, add a few more room and make some changes. I'll have it back up by Monday.  I'll also add some tips and hints through the use of personalized greeting cards scattered throughout!  (heheheh)</p><p>I used to design maps for W3, so I really miss trigger events and conditions, but I make do with what I'm given.  See ya'll in two days!  I'm taking it down at 7pm EST tonight.</p></blockquote><p>At the beginning of the third room, the second maze room, is a set of small stairs.  You are supposed to turn left but I turned right and fell into a little gap between the stairs and the decoration wall.  It looks like you can move around in it but I couldn't.</p><p>The problem with mob placement is that if you only put groups of 2-3 it will be a very boring dungeon for groups.  If you put more (4+) then solo players will die alot, especially in rooms with limited line of sight like maze rooms.  I am thinking that people should put "Solo" or "Group" in the name of their dungeon to warn people what the difficulty level is like.  Ideally there should be a little text box that each dungeon creator can write a blurb in.</p><p>Love the idea of putting greeting cards and/or books in the dungeon, adds to the lore of the dungeon and lets you give hints to the puzzle-challenged like me.</p><p>Looking forward to your revamp, you definetly have a real talent for dungeon design and decoration!</p>

Fyrstar2004
12-16-2011, 05:58 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Fyrstar2004 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You actually flattered me, though=D  I had no idea that people were having trouble with the first room, I thought I made the puzzle too easy.  No offense to you, though.  I had four people test the first three puzzles before I put in the mobs.  1 out of 4 had trouble, but they figured it out after about 10 minutes.  It was ALWAYS that first room that was hard, but 3 out of 4 almost went insane at the mirror maze.  The fourth beat it in 15 seconds. TOTALLY infuriated me that he did it so easily.</p></blockquote><p>There's a trick where if you point your camera up enough most of the visual confusion from the mirrors disappears and you can just run it as a normal maze.  It took me a while to figure out, but after I found that it was easy.</p><p>The rating system is broken for dungeons.  I mean, your dungeon is awesome, but it took me well over an hour to run (solo, with running the mazes multiple times because I died trying to clear the mobs in later rooms), and there's no way I'm doing that again just so I can give it another rating in a new 24-hour voting period.  If you had the exit in the entrance room, and just had the rest of the dungeon for people to explore as far as they wanted, people could go and and give it a new rating without having to re-run the entire dungeon.</p></blockquote><p>I'll have to figure a way to keep people from doing that.  Perhaps by raising it up to add the pitfalls will fix the cheat=D</p>

Fyrstar2004
12-16-2011, 06:55 PM
<p>Taking down the dungeon now.   I'll include patch notes after it's done.</p>

apwyork
12-16-2011, 11:01 PM
<p>I fully understand the op's frustration having created a well designed, 200 token dungeon with the intent that it was not possible to be done solo and 3 or more made it scale up also so it was not an effective grouping.  It was made for a two person group and it matches that exactly.  It's got 36 reviews in the 4-5 star range, and has no awards given, while my throw something together just to test things dungeon has 2 reviews, and several rewards.  There's no real incentive to do quality work other than personal satisfaction since the ratings are not very accurate, the rumored rewards for high rated dungeons don't seem to exist, and the main interface to find dungeons does not allow searching.  It's simply a matter of publishing and unpublishing to stay on page one.  Long-term existing dungeons just fall off the pages and get abandoned anyway.</p>

Reimas
12-17-2011, 12:27 AM
<p>There's a couple of things you should consider:</p><p>1)  If you want to make a dungeon that only appeals to a select audience, you can reasonly expect to exclude a large portion of people, just as fine dining has a more exclusive clientelle than McDonalds.  This is naturally going to effect your ratings.</p><p>2)  Who did you publish against, who is your competition? </p><p>On Crushbone Server, the leaderboard in the Crushbone category has been rated 200 times, and consistently tops the creativity on all 4 categories daily.  From reading the comments in chat about that dungeon, I doubt it is due solely to friends/guild votes.  </p><p>On the Mistmoore Manor category overall is dominated by Santa Claus' Monsterland and recent toggles between that and Tinkertown.  If awards is your goal it may be better to wait until these powerhouses have moved onto the Hall of Fame.</p><p>Conversely the Lair of Scale overall leader has 4 votes, which would be easily toppled by a quality dungeon.</p>

Rothgar
12-17-2011, 04:01 AM
<p>With next Tuesday's hotfix, one of the things we've done is changed the rating system to be a "Like" system rather than  5-star rating system.  Hopefully this will make the leaderboard feature a little more friendly.</p><p>Rather than wipe existing ratings, we've taken every rating that is 3 stars or higher and will be converting it to a "Like".  Lower ratings will just disappear.</p><p>We'll see how this goes over the holidays and if it looks like there is still some strangeness going on with the awards we'll take a closer look at it.</p>

Exodian
12-17-2011, 08:11 AM
<p>I'm glad it's getting changed I just checked mine which I thought was an ok solo dungeon, had got it's first review at 5 stars then I get downgraded by 2 reviews, strangley the same as a few others who were also at the top with me and now we have all been downgraded. </p><p>I hope the new system stops scumbags from abusing it.</p>

Fyrstar2004
12-19-2011, 08:12 PM
<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With next Tuesday's hotfix, one of the things we've done is changed the rating system to be a "Like" system rather than  5-star rating system.  Hopefully this will make the leaderboard feature a little more friendly.</p><p>Rather than wipe existing ratings, we've taken every rating that is 3 stars or higher and will be converting it to a "Like".  Lower ratings will just disappear.</p><p>We'll see how this goes over the holidays and if it looks like there is still some strangeness going on with the awards we'll take a closer look at it.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks Roth, appreciate it.</p><p>As for my dungeon not being back up today, sorry=(  I spent all weekend (48+ hours) working on it, decided to finish filling out the dungeon.  It will have 7 bosses now, 7 fully independent designed rooms, and mobs named after everyone I see in chat=D</p>

IvyBlackrose
12-20-2011, 12:34 PM
<p>heh actually what i enjoy is the dungeons with no ratings and 20 awards</p>

Fyrstar2004
12-21-2011, 12:13 AM
<p><cite>IvyBlackrose wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>heh actually what i enjoy is the dungeons with no ratings and 20 awards</p></blockquote><p>Hopefully, this patch will fix this. </p><p>My dungeon is now up again, thanks to Sony removing the option for me to grind for boss tokens and/or unique spawners.  Now, there's nothing left to do but click publish.</p><p>Done.  Enjoy!</p>

Puddlejump
12-21-2011, 01:31 AM
<p><cite>Fyrstar2004 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As for my dungeon not being back up today, sorry=(  I spent all weekend (48+ hours) working on it, decided to finish filling out the dungeon.  It will have 7 bosses now, 7 fully independent designed rooms, and mobs named after everyone I see in chat=D</p></blockquote><p>I just gave your revamp a try and made it to the exit (I can see why you couldn't put the exit right at the entrance!)  I will try to finish it when I have more time, but it is definetly more soloable than before though it is what I would call moderate-to-difficult soloable - my drolvarg did die a few times when using his AE ability caused overpulls.</p><p>So it looks like I got to be the first person to give it a "like" in both action and style <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>From the point of view of design, decoration and, above all, innovative ideas this is one of the best dungeons I have seen so far on Crushbone.</p><p>Just a couple questions:</p><p>1) What did you use to make the different sets of stairs?  They look like tables or benches.  Your use of the vertical as well as the horizontal has got me interested in "raising my game" so to speak.</p><p>2) Where did you get the Bitter Bloom spawner?  Love to have one for my garden style dungeon but never see one on the AH.</p>

Fyrstar2004
12-21-2011, 08:05 AM
<p>LOL!!!  Puddle, that was too funny.</p><p>You actually finished it while we were in the middle of an edit.  We pulled the map just as you were entering and you finished it just as we finished the alteration.  Not sure if your like is still up or not since we had pulled it, but we had to edit that first room jump to make it more obvious and easier for the Mario challenged.</p><p>We were wondering why someone would make a break for the middle exit with only 4 tokens given to me for them doing the instance, but your post answered that.  Too funny!</p><p>1) First set of stairs are Rosewood tables.  Second set is Christmas tables.  Third set is Crushborn map tool tables.</p><p>2) Bought them off the market.</p><p>Thanks for your compliments!  The funny thing is that I threw up a dungeon last night in, literally, 20 minutes.  I called it 4 rooms, 200 tokens under the Lair of Scale.  I did it to perform a scientific test as to what the people want.</p><p>Here are the results:</p><p>Long dungeon Frosty:  4 runs, 50 tokens given as a reward for posting the dungeon.</p><p>Short dungeon 4 rooms: 56 runs, 365 tokens awarded.</p><p>There you have it, folks.  The people want farms, not designs.   Pulling out the ability to purchase more spawners only increases the sameness of design and the farm desire, in my humble opinion.</p><p>Solution:  Have mobs drop loot/coins.  Have bosses drop chests that your main can use, containing spawners or other items, ESPECIALLY since you've removed the option for us to purchase them.  Give the option to label your dungeon a farm or a creation of design, and then place said dungeons in said categories.</p>

Tikshadow
01-27-2012, 07:34 AM
<p>I see what you mean about Unlike/Down Voters. I had a dungeon I spent many hours setting up. It only had 3 likes, but was in the top 5 for the layout catagory. Needless to say, it got 3 down votes in a single day - Coincidentally the same day a new dungeon (with a very similar name) was published and got 3 up votes (Also coincidentally the same day the awards were updated).... Never again am I going to waste that much time on creating something people might actually like when the reward for greed is so alluring.</p>