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View Full Version : Past Purchased Expansions...Unlocks Content, No?


Nrgy
11-15-2011, 05:24 PM
<p>I think it is still unclear and I have seen many comments under several posts pertaining to the same confusion, and although it doesn't effect me immediately, it might in the future.  I think it deserves an answer unto itself without being burried on page 87 of a thread.  Maybe its just as self explanatory as it reads and required no answer other than, Yes! </p><p>Which is kind of funny considering "We wanted to do the right thing" conserning players with character slots on Live + EQ2X are becoming additive under the same rouse.  What if the characters are Troll-Shadowknights and the account is "Silver"?  Why bother granting the extra "Free" character slots at all if they can't be used ... (I know, I know, maybe those accounts will go "Gold" ... with little choice).  Why don't you just say, "Here, have a few extra character slots, whats that? Oh yeah you'll need to be a [Gold Member] to actualy use those toons, cash shop is that way!"  <span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="color: #ff6600;">On a side note:  Did it really have to be GOLD & MEMBER?</span>  </span></p><p>  So, no where was I able to find any language which says that any Race or any Class was included in the purchase of an Expansion or Adventure Pack outside of the Freeblood & Beastlord which we all are aware of.  So, I am guessing that any confusion about what a player is able to play will drastically be tied to their membership level.</p><p>_____</p><p>In the case of Races; its not so bad as they are "Unlockable" via SC Marketplace purchases (depending on the cost).  You could debate that Froglok's were "Unlocked" via the in-game quest first offered in May 2005 which should have flagged your account with the Froglok entitlement.  Fae & Arasai were related to EoF, but do not appear to be entitlements directly associated with that purchase only dependent on that purchase.  Same with the Sarnak from the RoK period.</p><p>In the case of Classes: its very restrictive, as the language on the F2P notification states "Remaining available with Gold upgrade", which means that if you historically have played or would like to in the future play a class which is not part of the base eight you have to have a Gold Membership.  That language is quite clear.  As a Free or Silver member you are allowed the classes: Swashbuckler, Brigand, Wizard, Warlock, Guardian, Berserker, Templar and Inquisitor.  Any of the remianing 16 would require a Gold membership and Beastlords would require the purchase of AOD.</p><p>_____</p><p>So, if you use to play on EQ2X or EQ2 Live as a Troll-Shadowknight and wanted to change to "Free" to Play, Your Way! (tm) at the "Free" or "Silver" level,  you would be required to retain a Gold Membership.  If your membership should ever fall below Gold level you would no longer retain the right to play that particular Troll-Shadowknight.  You would be allowed to purchase a Troll race pack, but AFAIK there are not any Class packs to purchase, according to the SOE media.  You know why I used TROLL in my example, they are hated or soon will be by everyone.</p><p>_____</p><p>So, those looking for a "Free" ride will be limited to 1 of 4 Races (Human, Erudite, Barbarian and Half-Elf) and 1 or 8 Classes (Swashbuckler, Brigand, Wizard, Warlock, Guardian, Berserker, Templar and Inquisitor).  Still groupable ... 4-DPS, 2-Tank & 2-Healer ... just no fun <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Lcneed
11-15-2011, 06:02 PM
<p>You can buy class unlock for 750 SC for each class.  And every expansion you purchased will still be there at any membership level: free, silver, gold.   Class unlock came after the orginal release of EQ2x, and the matrix of EQ2x is not exactly up to date even now.  You can play any class any race any expansion at any level wearing anything at silver or free membership (with unlockers).</p>

katalmach
11-15-2011, 06:54 PM
<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Fae & Arasai were related to EoF, but do not appear to be entitlements directly associated with that purchase only dependent on that purchase.  Same with the Sarnak from the RoK period.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, if you look at the description of Rise of Kunark on Amazon, it has "New Player Race" as one of the product features. Echoes of Faydwer has as its very first sentence in the description of the product: "This expansion introduces a new playable race, The Fae, an enchanted race of winged creatures.". That description was copied from SOE's own EoF website by the way - so it's quite clear that Fae and Sarnak WERE product features included in the purchase of those expansions.</p><p>Anybody who ever purchased EoF and Kunark should have access to those races regardless of their subscription status. They bought them once (the fae were certainly the reason I was excited to buy EoF) and should not have to buy them again.</p>

CorpseGoddess
11-15-2011, 06:58 PM
<p>I think the biggest confusion is the Silver level, to be honest.  There really are only two levels, with Free having one sub-level.</p><p>There's "Free" with sublevel "Silver" (or "Paying for Some Stuff) and "Paid" or "Gold".</p><p>If you want to play for <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Free</span></strong>, you have a couple of options.  </p><p>1.)  You can waltz around and do as much as you can with *all* the ftp restrictions placed on you, regardless of whether or not you've played EQ2 in the past as a paid subscriber.  You can waltz around right up to level 90, right up to and including the SF expansion--but you can only do it with *all* the ftp restrictions.</p><p>2.)  You can waltz around and do as much as you can with *some* of the ftp restrictions placed on you, once you pay a one-time fee to have some of those restrictions lifted, regardless of whether or not you've played EQ2 in the past as a paid subscriber.  You can waltz around right up to level 90, right up to and including the SF expansion--but you can only do it with *some* of the ftp restrictions if you have paid the one-time Silver fee.</p><p>If you do not want to play for <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Free</strong></span>, you have ONE option:</p><p>1.)  Buy a gold membership.  This can be a one-time monthly membership, or it can be recurring in 1, -3-, 6-, 9- or 12-month increments.  This option allows you free reign of the game IN TERMS OF THE FREE-TO-PLAY-RESTRICTIONS.  If you want classes, races, expansions, etc. that are only available through purchase, either on ftp or with a paid subscription, you will have to pay to have access to those features, regardless of whether or not you've played EQ2 in the past as a paid subscriber.  Once you have purchased content, as long as you continue to be a subscriber in good standing, you have access to the full game and purchased content.</p><p>I really am not sure how much clearer I can put this.  I'm struggling to clarify it further.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.</p>

Lcneed
11-15-2011, 07:23 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Fae & Arasai were related to EoF, but do not appear to be entitlements directly associated with that purchase only dependent on that purchase.  Same with the Sarnak from the RoK period.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, if you look at the description of Rise of Kunark on Amazon, it has "New Player Race" as one of the product features. Echoes of Faydwer has as its very first sentence in the description of the product: "This expansion introduces a new playable race, The Fae, an enchanted race of winged creatures.". That description was copied from SOE's own EoF website by the way - so it's quite clear that Fae and Sarnak WERE product features included in the purchase of those expansions.</p><p>Anybody who ever purchased EoF and Kunark should have access to those races regardless of their subscription status. They bought them once (the fae were certainly the reason I was excited to buy EoF) and should not have to buy them again.</p></blockquote><p>Now I understand where this bought the expansion and have to pay again thing comes from.   I guess it is kind of tricky.  Part of the expansion is introducing a new race, but now you will need to unlock that race again if you decided to play free.   I guess the right thing for SoE to do would be to offer free unlocks of those races.   But then they could also use the logic saying that under the current system, if you stop paying your sub, you don't get to play any race at all.   I think SoE will probably go with the 2nd option.   Fae races are one of the most purchased races on Freeport I think.  I bought it.</p>

Kasar
11-15-2011, 10:06 PM
<p>If you don't pay monthly under current terms, all classes and races are unplayable, so what you have is more like a rental.</p><p>A one-time unlock fee wouldn't bother me too much if I were trying to eliminate the monthly subscription cost.</p>

WeatherMan
11-16-2011, 01:09 AM
<p><cite>Kasar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you don't pay monthly under current terms, all classes and races are unplayable, so what you have is more like a rental.</p><p>A one-time unlock fee wouldn't bother me too much if I were trying to eliminate the monthly subscription cost.</p></blockquote><p>That's pretty much what the race unlocks are.  You pay a few bucks, and get a 3-race 'package' (three races they threw together) unlocked.  You can then play any characters of those three races regardless of subscription status.  At least that is how it is on Freeport <em>now</em>.  But I don't really see them changing that formula.</p>

Rijacki
11-16-2011, 01:38 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Fae & Arasai were related to EoF, but do not appear to be entitlements directly associated with that purchase only dependent on that purchase.  Same with the Sarnak from the RoK period.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, if you look at the description of Rise of Kunark on Amazon, it has "New Player Race" as one of the product features. Echoes of Faydwer has as its very first sentence in the description of the product: "<span style="color: #ff0000;">This expansion introduces a new playable race,</span> The Fae, an enchanted race of winged creatures.". That description was copied from SOE's own EoF website by the way - so it's quite clear that Fae and Sarnak WERE product features included in the purchase of those expansions.</p><p>Anybody who ever purchased EoF and Kunark should have access to those races regardless of their subscription status. They bought them once (the fae were certainly the reason I was excited to buy EoF) and should not have to buy them again.</p></blockquote><p>Introduces, as in ADDS them as a potential player race to Norrath. No where does it say, "You are entitled to this race whether you pay for a subscription or not." In fact each of the boxes says subscription and/or other fees are required to be able to play. In the subscription model, you can't buy an expansion, not pay the monthly fee, and expect to be able to play.</p><p>But, yes, I am well aware those who feel entitled and/or don't want to pay for anything but have gold access forever will only hear what they want and everything else falls on deaf ears.</p>

Gaealiege
11-16-2011, 01:46 AM
<p>Well you see the flaw in your argument there, Rijacki, is beastlord.  At that point you automatically lose.</p>

retro_guy
11-16-2011, 01:48 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think the biggest confusion is the Silver level, to be honest.  There really are only two levels, with Free having one sub-level.</p><p>There's "Free" with sublevel "Silver" (or "Paying for Some Stuff) and "Paid" or "Gold".</p><p>If you want to play for <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Free</span></strong>, you have a couple of options.  </p><p>1.)  You can waltz around and do as much as you can with *all* the ftp restrictions placed on you, regardless of whether or not you've played EQ2 in the past as a paid subscriber.  You can waltz around right up to level 90, right up to and including the SF expansion--but you can only do it with *all* the ftp restrictions.</p><p>2.)  You can waltz around and do as much as you can with *some* of the ftp restrictions placed on you, once you pay a one-time fee to have some of those restrictions lifted, regardless of whether or not you've played EQ2 in the past as a paid subscriber.  You can waltz around right up to level 90, right up to and including the SF expansion--but you can only do it with *some* of the ftp restrictions if you have paid the one-time Silver fee.</p><p>If you do not want to play for <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Free</strong></span>, you have ONE option:</p><p>1.)  Buy a gold membership. <strong> This can be a one-time monthly membership,</strong> or it can be recurring in 3-, 6-, 9- or 12-month increments.  This option allows you free reign of the game IN TERMS OF THE FREE-TO-PLAY-RESTRICTIONS.  If you want classes, races, expansions, etc. that are only available through purchase, either on ftp or with a paid subscription, you will have to pay to have access to those features, regardless of whether or not you've played EQ2 in the past as a paid subscriber.  Once you have purchased content, as long as you continue to be a subscriber in good standing, you have access to the full game and purchased content.</p><p>I really am not sure how much clearer I can put this.  I'm struggling to clarify it further.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.</p></blockquote><p>So can I no longer do a 1-month recurring??</p><p>That's going to put the cat amongst the pidgeons. I can get away with a small charge every month to my cc, but will have to explain a large charge every 3 months.</p>

Rijacki
11-16-2011, 01:50 AM
<p><cite>retro_guy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So can I no longer do a 1-month recurring??</p><p>That's going to put the cat amongst the pidgeons. I can get away with a small charge every month to my cc, but will have to explain a large charge every 3 months.</p></blockquote><p>Yes you can. It will just be called "gold membership" instead of subscription.</p>

CorpseGoddess
11-16-2011, 01:55 AM
<p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>retro_guy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So can I no longer do a 1-month recurring??</p><p>That's going to put the cat amongst the pidgeons. I can get away with a small charge every month to my cc, but will have to explain a large charge every 3 months.</p></blockquote><p>Yes you can. It will just be called "gold membership" instead of subscription.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, sorry.  That's why I asked for any help with further clarifying my clarification.  I'll go back and edit that.</p>

Felshades
11-16-2011, 06:25 AM
<p>So wait... my monthly recurring is no longer considered a subscription?</p><p>What the hell kind of crabcakes is that? A 3 month package is out of the question at any time; I never have that much free money to blow all at once(disability checks in a high cost of living state as sole income ftw) yet it's automatically deducted from my account... which is the definition of subscription.</p><p>I could see if I was paying a month at a time with game cards or something, manually making a payment every month not being one, but I set up a SUBSCRIIPTION PLAN to auto deduct money from my account.</p>

Labruja
11-16-2011, 09:19 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So wait... my monthly recurring is no longer considered a subscription?</p><p>What the hell kind of crabcakes is that? A 3 month package is out of the question at any time; I never have that much free money to blow all at once(disability checks in a high cost of living state as sole income ftw) yet it's automatically deducted from my account... which is the definition of subscription.</p><p>I could see if I was paying a month at a time with game cards or something, manually making a payment every month not being one, but I set up a SUBSCRIIPTION PLAN to auto deduct money from my account.</p></blockquote><p>Monthly subscriptions have only been renamed.  They have not changed in any way, except for the fact that you will recieve 500 SC as an added bonus.  When you see 'Gold Access', read 'Subscription' in order to avoid confusion. </p>

thesiren
11-16-2011, 10:33 AM
<p>I'm pretty surprised that no one seems inclined to go the Freeport Extended server themselves *or* their forums, where every question you've ever had has already been answered 1000 times over.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2x/forums/list.m" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2x/forums/list.m</a></p><p>If Extended subbers ever drop their subs, they have to pay to unlock certain classes and races, too.  If you sub, nothing changes.  But now you just have the opportunity to un-sub and still access the game in a more restricted fashion, instead of not getting any access at all like the way live has previously always been, lol.</p><p><strong><span style="color: #008080;">I do really suggest to SOE that they run a "Free Reactivation Week" for all former subbers once this whole thing gets off the ground in December, though.  That way people can have 7 days to "clean house," see what their additional options are, and make room for non-restricted classes/races if they want to go silver, etc.</span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #008080;">But SOE should wait to run this promotion until *after* Bazaar merges into Freeport and Vox merges into Nagafen, in case there is additional unexpected downtime, which could eat away at the 7 days of free Reactivation.</span></strong></p>

kaedianeq2
11-16-2011, 11:18 AM
<p><cite>Labruja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So wait... my monthly recurring is no longer considered a subscription?</p><p>What the hell kind of crabcakes is that? A 3 month package is out of the question at any time; I never have that much free money to blow all at once(disability checks in a high cost of living state as sole income ftw) yet it's automatically deducted from my account... which is the definition of subscription.</p><p>I could see if I was paying a month at a time with game cards or something, manually making a payment every month not being one, but I set up a SUBSCRIIPTION PLAN to auto deduct money from my account.</p></blockquote><p>Monthly subscriptions have only been renamed.  They have not changed in any way, except for the fact that you will recieve 500 SC as an added bonus.  When you see 'Gold Access', read 'Subscription' in order to avoid confusion. </p></blockquote><p>Not exactly.  You can have a recurring and non-recurring subscription. </p><p>If you are comfortable with SoE having your cc info, you can set up a recurring subscription with payment frequencies of monthly through to yearly.  If instead you want to purchase a monthly, non-recurring subscription via SC or SC cards (purchaseable at Walmart and various other retail establishments) that is another option for the same GOLD subscription status. </p><p>The difference between the two is that the recurring subs come with a 500sc/month "bonus".</p><p>Therefore, if you have a current LIVE sub and don't mind paying whatever per month, quarter, half, full year ... keep doing so and you will additionally recieve 500sc each month.</p><p>You can however choose to reduce that "fee" in a variety of ways, although they do come with consequences.</p>

Starack
11-16-2011, 12:22 PM
<p><cite>kaedianeq2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Labruja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So wait... my monthly recurring is no longer considered a subscription?</p><p>What the hell kind of crabcakes is that? A 3 month package is out of the question at any time; I never have that much free money to blow all at once(disability checks in a high cost of living state as sole income ftw) yet it's automatically deducted from my account... which is the definition of subscription.</p><p>I could see if I was paying a month at a time with game cards or something, manually making a payment every month not being one, but I set up a SUBSCRIIPTION PLAN to auto deduct money from my account.</p></blockquote><p>Monthly subscriptions have only been renamed.  They have not changed in any way, except for the fact that you will recieve 500 SC as an added bonus.  When you see 'Gold Access', read 'Subscription' in order to avoid confusion. </p></blockquote><p>Not exactly.  You can have a recurring and non-recurring subscription. </p><p>If you are comfortable with SoE having your cc info, you can set up a recurring subscription with payment frequencies of monthly through to yearly.  If instead you want to purchase a monthly, non-recurring subscription via SC or SC cards (purchaseable at Walmart and various other retail establishments) that is another option for the same GOLD subscription status. </p><p>The difference between the two is that the recurring subs come with a 500sc/month "bonus".</p><p>Therefore, if you have a current LIVE sub and don't mind paying whatever per month, quarter, half, full year ... keep doing so and you will additionally recieve 500sc each month.</p><p>You can however choose to reduce that "fee" in a variety of ways, although they do come with consequences.</p></blockquote><p>I had a feeling this is exactly what they meant about recurring and non recurring, the fact of the matter is, what ever their business or accounts department thinks about letting them hold on to your CC/DD details is actually probably incredibly daft of them to think that is acceptable any more.</p><p>Pretty much every big buisness has been hacked into in the sense of all segements of industry and commerce and no matter what security upgrades they have put in place will not for a large number of people, myself included, ever garner trust or confidence to ever again just leave my details with the virtual store, the convience is nice but its not nice enough to just leave it as an open risk like that.</p><p>There is no issue with paying once or a one off sense via CC/DD but the storing of your card profile for easy reuse is pretty much unacceptable. It is about time the entire e-commerce industry woke up and do the right thing and stop that, it is a massive security and trust headache that they can only ever loose, since it is an arms race.</p><p>So really their account or business department , should not evaluate the number of recurring subs as meaning what it used to mean, many many many of us will have switched to a different payment style to minimise our own risks.</p><p>We all have various options I don't know if they take pre-loaded 'disposable' credit/debit cards, but I am wavering between just going cash at the store to buy SC cards and not storing my CC/DD cards if I can help it. 'Free' meta currency that can only be spent at their store is not enough of an incentive to disregard the true base issue.</p><p>That fact alone has no bearing on the discussion of weather or not subscribers are happy to continue subscribing. So they should drop that as a metric/tool if that is indeed what they use to base some of their cost/growth projections.</p>

Nrgy
11-16-2011, 02:24 PM
<p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Fae & Arasai were related to EoF, but <span style="color: #ff0000;">do not appear to be entitlements </span>directly associated with that purchase only dependent on that purchase.  Same with the Sarnak from the RoK period.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, if you look at the description of Rise of Kunark on Amazon, it has "New Player Race" as one of the product features. Echoes of Faydwer has as its very first sentence in the description of the product: "<span style="color: #ff0000;">This expansion introduces a new playable race,</span> The Fae, an enchanted race of winged creatures.". That description was copied from SOE's own EoF website by the way - so it's quite clear that Fae and Sarnak WERE product features included in the purchase of those expansions.</p><p>Anybody who ever purchased EoF and Kunark should have access to those races regardless of their subscription status. They bought them once (the fae were certainly the reason I was excited to buy EoF) and should not have to buy them again.</p></blockquote><p>Introduces, as in ADDS them as a potential player race to Norrath. No where does it say, "You are entitled to this race whether you pay for a subscription or not." In fact each of the boxes says subscription and/or other fees are required to be able to play. In the subscription model, you can't buy an expansion, not pay the monthly fee, and expect to be able to play.</p><p>But, yes, I am well aware those who feel entitled and/or don't want to pay for anything but have gold access forever will only hear what they want and everything else falls on deaf ears.</p></blockquote><p>That is what I said ... Fae / Arasai & Sarnak races were "Introduced" with those expansions and according to the websites I searched and wiki they do not say they are part of or included in the entitlement.  Maybe they were cleverly marketed at the time those expansions released, but the simple fact is people <span style="color: #ff0000;">THINK</span> that since they purchased EoF or RoK expansions they are entitled to those races or should be entitled to them.  I use Entitled becasue that is the language which SOE uses as License notification.  The accounts have "Entitlements" depending on what was purchased or what was rewarded.</p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">There isn't a single Live player who ever thought that when they purchased the "Base" game or later purchased "Expansions" that they were being "freely allowed" to play races or classes which were not included in the purchased product.  I don't recall the "Base" game stating that it included 4 races, but allowed the purchaser, as a special limited time offer, to use 12 others.  Nowhere did I read, that the "Base" game shipped with the use of 8 classes, but during a "Promotional Period" (of seven years) offered free use of 16 others.</span></p><p>Now, the truth is that even though expansions were purchased and entitlements to content contained within those expansions are flagged on an account, the Races which were marketed with those expansions are not part of the entitlements.  Leaving players with less than Gold Members only the option to pay to unlock them, a process which some of those players <span style="color: #ff0000;">VIEW</span> as buying the content again. </p><p>Its a lose-lose situation, SOE would like us to buy the unlockers for the races and classes.  Where players, who purchased those expansions in the past, feel they already have.  Of, course SOE is right, but that isn't gaining them any favor in the new world of "Play for Free, Your Way" (tm).</p><p>I hope that is clear enough...</p><p>--------</p><p>There is also the nomenclature that purchasing an expansion "Entitles" the buyer to all previous content.  If a new player just started player when DOV was release and purchased DOV from the store, they were "Entitled" all past gaming content.  That up until now, included all land mass, all game mechanics, all races and all classes.  Now, whether that was misleading or just misunderstood, it is in fact the nature of the issue.  Having a player "Own" DOV at less than a Gold Member will no longer "Entitle" that player to the same level of content which they had available in the past. </p><p>I am not familiar with how it worked in EQ2x and maybe that is part of the mispreception.  If an EQ2x player was at the lowest membership level (F2P) but purchased DOV and Entitled to that content, I assume they would still have restrictions on the account limiting races and classes available to use in the content that that are "Entitle" to, not to mention Armor, spells, bank slots, character slots and gold/level.</p>

Wookin
11-16-2011, 02:52 PM
So are the race unlockers another right to rent agreement in disguise? Or do you get a discount on subscription if you buy an unlocker?

Glenolas
11-16-2011, 05:01 PM
<p><cite>Lcneed wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You can buy class unlock for 750 SC for each class.</p></blockquote><p>You say that with confidence, but Nrgy's example of a Troll - SK does not appear unlockable in the  FTP matrix.   Who is right, you or the matrix?</p><blockquote><p> and the matrix of EQ2x is not exactly up to date even now.  You can play any class any race any expansion at any level wearing anything at silver or free membership (with unlockers).</p></blockquote><p>I have seen SJ jump in and answer a large number of questions, but never state this, even though this question has come up repeatedly.</p><p>If the matrix was wrong, why was it released?    Best count on it being right, and order accordingly.</p>

yohann koldheart
11-16-2011, 05:13 PM
<p><cite>thesiren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><span style="color: #008080;">I do really suggest to SOE that they run a "Free Reactivation Week" for all former subbers once this whole thing gets off the ground in December, though.  </span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #008080;"></span></strong></p></blockquote><p>once this whole thing gets off the ground there is a free activation but longer then a week its as long as the game is in existance lol</p>

TalisX1
11-16-2011, 05:17 PM
<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That is what I said ... Fae / Arasai & Sarnak races were "Introduced" with those expansions and according to the websites I searched and wiki they do not say they are part of or included in the entitlement.  Maybe they were cleverly marketed at the time those expansions released, but the simple fact is people <span style="color: #ff0000;">THINK</span> that since they purchased EoF or RoK expansions they are entitled to those races or should be entitled to them.  I use Entitled becasue that is the language which SOE uses as License notification.  The accounts have "Entitlements" depending on what was purchased or what was rewarded.</p><p><SNIP></p></blockquote><p>They were not 'introduced' with the expansions. That would suggest that you could play them once the expansion went live and this was not the case. You had to purchase the expansion to play the races. If you did not purchase them you could not play them. So purchasing  the expansion entitled you to play the races.</p><p>This whole debate is easily solved by making the free players not only have to purchase AoD to play beastlords but also to have to purchase a beastlord unlocker to use the beastlord on a free account. Then all expansion included content would be treated the same to all free players. It would also net SoE more revenue.</p><p>Another option would be to give all veteran players one free race unlock and one free class unlock so that anyone playing currently or that comes back would be able to play at least one character that they currently have instead of having to delete and start over to try/retry the game for free.</p><p>Silat</p>

arvydys
11-16-2011, 05:25 PM
<p>Its amazing how many people will ignore simple logic in an attempt to get something for free they dont deserve.  </p>

Maisland
11-16-2011, 05:25 PM
<p><cite>Kasar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you don't pay monthly under current terms, all classes and races are unplayable, so what you have is more like a rental.</p><p>A one-time unlock fee wouldn't bother me too much if I were trying to eliminate the monthly subscription cost.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly... the one time fee would be no issue to me <em><strong>if</strong></em> I were actually trying to eliminate the monthly subscription costs.</p><p>Since (while finances may dictate that I let my subscription lapse from time to time for short periods) I do <em><strong>not</strong></em> plan to drop to silver permanently, it <em><strong>is</strong></em> an issue for me.</p><p>Possible suggestions that I can think of would be:</p><p>1) Give silver more than just 4 races to chose from.  Either races chosen by Sony or a race pack of the player's choice.</p><p>2)  Grandfather in the races and classes of characters created prior to (a date chosen by Sony... while I would naturally prefer a more recent date, I would be happy if they even set this date as early as December 31, 2005).</p><p>3)  Add race and class unlockers to one of the later veteran rewards.</p><p>Any of these would be a nice gesture of good will.</p>

arvydys
11-16-2011, 05:29 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Any of these would be a nice gesture of good will.</p></blockquote><p>Isnt the 500 SC a month for recurring subs (what most people use) enough good will?  </p><p>WHY DO THEY OWE YOU GOOD WILL WHEN THEY ARE ONLY ADDINg, AND NOT TAKING AWAY?</p><p>Yeah, I have more options than i did before and its impossible to be worse off.  DAM YOU SOE YOU OWE ME FREE STUFFZ</p>

Maisland
11-16-2011, 05:46 PM
<p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Any of these would be a nice gesture of good will.</p></blockquote><p>Isnt the 500 SC a month for recurring subs (what most people use) enough good will?  </p><p>WHY DO THEY OWE YOU GOOD WILL WHEN THEY ARE ONLY ADDINg, AND NOT TAKING AWAY?</p><p>Yeah, I have more options than i did before and its impossible to be worse off.  DAM YOU SOE YOU OWE ME FREE STUFFZ</p></blockquote><p>I have a friend who has been unable to play for several months.  When this was first announced, I thought,  "Cool.   My friend will be able to play again, even if with very limited options."</p><p>Not one of my friend's characters combines one of the "free" races with one of the "free" classes.  He would have to delete 4 characters that he has worked on for many years just to free up a slot to make a new character on a silver account.</p><p>If Sony is going to basically <em><strong>gift</strong></em> free character slots to people who had characters on both EQ2X and EQ2 live servers prior to November 10 (<strong>which they have said that they are going to do</strong>), why would it be so different for them to do the same for class/race unlocks for people who have only ever played on live servers?</p><p>...and if asking for the one is asking too much, then the other should be as well.</p>

urgthock
11-16-2011, 05:48 PM
<p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lcneed wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You can buy class unlock for 750 SC for each class.</p></blockquote><p>You say that with confidence, but Nrgy's example of a Troll - SK does not appear unlockable in the  FTP matrix.   Who is right, you or the matrix?</p><blockquote><p> and the matrix of EQ2x is not exactly up to date even now.  You can play any class any race any expansion at any level wearing anything at silver or free membership (with unlockers).</p></blockquote><p>I have seen SJ jump in and answer a large number of questions, but never state this, even though this question has come up repeatedly.</p><p><strong>If the matrix was wrong, why was it released?    Best count on it being right, and order accordingly.</strong></p></blockquote><p>I believe the matrix released was only intended to display all the items that <strong>changed </strong>from the previous model of F2P.</p>

TalisX1
11-16-2011, 05:50 PM
<p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Its amazing how many people will ignore simple logic in an attempt to get something for free they dont deserve.  </p></blockquote><p>Who made you the arbiter of deservedness?</p><p>'Simple logic' dictates that all expansion purchased content would be treated equally. As stated above you the easiest solution is to announce that beastlords will require a twofold investment for free players.</p><p>Silat</p>

Nrgy
11-16-2011, 07:12 PM
<p><cite>TalisX1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That is what I said ... Fae / Arasai & Sarnak races were "Introduced" with those expansions and according to the websites I searched and wiki they do not say they are part of or included in the entitlement.  Maybe they were cleverly marketed at the time those expansions released, but the simple fact is people <span style="color: #ff0000;">THINK</span> that since they purchased EoF or RoK expansions they are entitled to those races or should be entitled to them.  I use Entitled becasue that is the language which SOE uses as License notification.  The accounts have "Entitlements" depending on what was purchased or what was rewarded.</p></blockquote><p>They were not 'introduced' with the expansions. That would suggest that you could play them once the expansion went live and this was not the case. You had to purchase the expansion to play the races. If you did not purchase them you could not play them. So purchasing  the expansion entitled you to play the races.</p><p>This whole debate is easily solved by making the free players not only have to purchase AoD to play beastlords but also to have to purchase a beastlord unlocker to use the beastlord on a free account. Then all expansion included content would be treated the same to all free players. It would also net SoE more revenue.</p><p>Another option would be to give all veteran players one free race unlock and one free class unlock so that anyone playing currently or that comes back would be able to play at least one character that they currently have instead of having to delete and start over to try/retry the game for free.</p><p>Silat</p></blockquote><p>As much as I agree with you Silat, I could not find and "Language" stating that the Races available though the purchase of EoF or RoK included the race entitlements.  It is true you had to purchase EoF or RoK expansions to play those races.  It is also true that if you did not purchase those expansions you could not play those races.  So, logic would dictate that those races were included in those purchases.  However, we are NOW BEING TOLD that those races and the expansions required to be purchased were not one unit but separate releases simply "tied" together which of course was a Marketing scheme or ponzi scam.  We just don't know if the scam was back when we were required to purchase them or now that we are being told that we never did in the first place. (<span style="color: #ff9900;">see orange text below</span>)</p><p>So, following the line of logic, we are being told that DOV part 2 is included in the purchase of DOV part 1... Its been said, with no uncertainty, that "It could have / should have / might have been a stand-alone purchased expansion, but 'we' (SOE) wanted to do the "right thing" and provide DOV part 2 for 'Free' ".  Past history dictates future response, doesn't it?</p><p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span style="color: #ff9900;">There isn't a single Live player who ever thought that when they purchased the "Base" game or later purchased "Expansions" that they were being "freely allowed" to play races or classes which were not included in the purchased product.  I don't recall the "Base" game stating that it included 4 races, but allowed the purchaser, as a special limited time offer, to use 12 others.  Nowhere did I read, that the "Base" game shipped with the use of 8 classes, but during a "Promotional Period" (of seven years) offered free use of 16 others.</span></blockquote><p>To me, I couldn't honestly care less.  The restrictions on the bag slots and bank value along with pop-up adds and constant advertisements is too great of a cost for me to pay, even if some people actually think its free.  Those pop-up have a cost associated with them that I am unwilling to pay it.  For those who fail to follow that statement, the cost is my time and attentions focused on the sheer annoyance of it all.  F2P is fine, for "testing" a games "quality" and thats where is ends, IMO.</p><p>Some people, however, like to think they could go gold now and silver later, maybe even go back to gold once more down the road.  Their issue is, If they PURCHASED the correct expansions they should have the correct entitlements regardless of membership level.  Which, btw, is the exact same thing stated by SJ and the official site, "You won't LOSE anything".  So, if you PURCHASED EOF or ROK and you go Silver, you can still use EoF or RoK, but your CANNOT use the races which EoF or RoK offered.</p><p>SEE?</p>

Nrgy
11-16-2011, 07:22 PM
<p>Oh and BTW, my comments are not about Fae, Arasai or Sarnak races specifically.  I would be concerned that "later" something else is turned into an Unlocker situation which we, the players, once again "thought" was included in the "Base" product which we purchased.</p><p>What about Wizzy Spires or Druid Rings?  Maybe there should be a SC tollbooth rather than a clicky-bush.</p><p>What about the World Bell, maybe there should be a SC ticket to buy before you can "board" the boat.</p><p>Revamped Freeport, Revamped Qeynos??? Free??? are we sure?</p><p>SC unlockers for AA caps?  Buy a few "Extra" Grand Master spells?  I wouldn't be suprised if complete healing potions will be back before DOV 2.0.</p><p>We the (live) players purchased a Base game, we purchased expansion after expansion and all the while THOUGHT that all races (except Freeblood) and all classes (except beastlords) were actually, you know, included.  Why would we think that??? BECAUSE it was never said any other way, was it?  So, what else do we <span style="color: #ff0000;">THINK </span>those purchases included but actually did not?</p>

Wingrider01
11-16-2011, 08:21 PM
<p><cite>Lcneed wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You can buy class unlock for 750 SC for each class.  And every expansion you purchased will still be there at any membership level: free, silver, gold.   Class unlock came after the orginal release of EQ2x, and the matrix of EQ2x is not exactly up to date even now.  You can play any class any race any expansion at any level wearing anything at silver or free membership (with unlockers).</p></blockquote><p>So basicly you are saying we all can pay and addition 7.50 to unlock something we already have entitlement to by paying 40.00+ for the expansion, seems a little on sided, the only winner here is SOE who gets to double charge for a item</p>

screenid
11-16-2011, 08:38 PM
<p>They are not taking anything away from anyone  (if you sub)</p><p>FTP is just the 14 day trial w/o the 14 day limit...instead they added in a bunch of class /race/slot/equipment /spell restrictions.  </p><p>If you happen to spend 5 dollars --->it bumps you up to Silver.... you get 2 more toon slots /bag slots/and some of the restrictions lifted ....but it is still mostly an unlimited trial. They do allow you to pay for unlockers ...but unless you are at max lvl - fully raid fabled equipped - all Masters scriibed ..and play 1 toon ...it will be very expensive to unlock things across your account (ALTS can be expensive)</p><p>If you sub nothing is taken away</p><p>...so "NO" past expansions do not unlock anything for a FTP account.</p><p>Beastlord is a  class (so the FAE -Sarnak argument does not apply)</p><p>Freeblood - SC race</p>

arvydys
11-16-2011, 08:46 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They are not taking anything away from anyone  (if you sub)</p><p>FTP is just the 14 day trial w/o the 14 day limit...instead they added in a bunch of class /race/slot/equipment /spell restrictions.  </p><p>If you happen to spend 5 dollars --->it bumps you up to Silver.... you get 2 more toon slots /bag slots/and some of the restrictions lifted ....but it is still mostly an unlimited trial. They do allow you to pay for unlockers ...but unless you are at max lvl - fully raid fabled equipped - all Masters scriibed ..and play 1 toon ...it will be very expensive to unlock things across your account (ALTS can be expensive)</p><p>If you sub nothing is taken away</p></blockquote><p>Dont bother, they dont understand simple reasoning.</p><p>I didnt protest Turbine becayse I bought all those quests when ipurchased my box copy of Lotro.  Its the same exact argument, i bought that content already, right?</p><p>People just want free handouts, plain and simple.  You cant argue it any other way.</p><p>Also, Beastlord is obviously different because of the way it is being released.</p><p>But again, I dont see this outcry to Turbine...maybe it was there whent heir f2p launched?  THEY OWE ME MY QUESTS I PAID FOR THEM.  I PAID FOR THE BANK SLOTS AND GOLD CAP TOO.  I WANT IT ALL AND I WANT IT NOW.</p><p>SoE has real issues to deal with, not this crap.</p>

arvydys
11-16-2011, 08:51 PM
<p><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>So basicly you are saying we all can pay and addition 7.50 to unlock something we already have entitlement to by paying 40.00+ for the expansion, seems a little on sided, the only winner here is SOE who gets to double charge for a item</p></blockquote><p>Show me something that says you are entitled to paying Fae or Sarnak while not subbed to the game and I will eat my words here.</p><p>There is no double charging.  If you want to play by Bronze or Silver ITS DIFFERENT RULES.  Its just a pathetic attitude you people have.</p>

TalisX1
11-16-2011, 10:46 PM
<p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><SNIP></p><p>Also, Beastlord is obviously different because of the way it is being released.</p><p><SNIP></p></blockquote><p>How is it different? You must buy an expansion to be able to use it. How is that different from Fae/Sarnak again?</p><p>Make free accounts pay to unlock it after purchasing AoD. We wouldn't want those free guys to get something they did not pay for right Icculuss?</p><p>Silat</p>

Adaeon
11-16-2011, 11:15 PM
<p>First, let me say I plan on maintaining my subscription for the time being at least.</p><p>That being said, the folks arguing against past expansion buyers being entitled to the races are making an argument I simply don't understand. I checked my account page and got the following (cut and pasted):</p><p># Entitlement: Desert of Flames + In-Game Item: Genie Bottle# Entitlement: Destiny of Velious# Entitlement: Echoes of Faydwer<strong># Entitlement: Froglok</strong># Entitlement: Kingdom of Sky# Entitlement: Rise of Kunark# Entitlement: Sentinel's Fate# Entitlement: The Bloodline Chronicles# Entitlement: The Fallen Dynasty# Entitlement: The Shadow Odyssey All-In-One Pack# Entitlement: The Splitpaw Saga</p><p>Additionally, let me refer you to SoE's knowledgebase:</p><p><a href="http://soe-ing.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16651/kw/unable%20to%20create%20a%20fae" target="_blank">Only customers who have purchased the Echoes of Faydwer expansion will be able to <em>create</em> a <em>Fae</em> character, although anyone will be able to see them in the game.</a></p><p><a href="http://soe-ing.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/19290/kw/races%20available%20in%20EQ2">Fae (Must have Echoes of Faydwer)</a></p><p><a href="http://soe-ing.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/19290/kw/races%20available%20in%20EQ2">Arasai (Must have Echoes of Faydwer) </a></p><p><a href="http://soe-ing.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/19290/kw/races%20available%20in%20EQ2" target="_blank">Sarnak (Must have Rise of Kunark)</a></p><p>While I understand that SoE has chosen to present other methods to access these races, I do not understand how offering lower priced alternatives negates my previous purchases, at more expense,  granting these entitlements.</p><p>I have also seen the argument that the F2P model somehow changes things, as previously we would be unable to access any content without a subscription.  That argument seems semantic at best, but permit me to address it nonetheless.</p><p>On neither of the pages I linked, nor in my account information, do I see mention of them being anything other than an ACCOUNT entitlement. There is no mention of them only being available under certain payment plans. My understanding is that on EQ2X there was that restriction, however, I am not an EQ2X subscriber, nor by my understanding will there BE such a thing when the changeover occurs. Rather, I will continue to be and the former EQ2X players will become simply EQ2 players.</p><p>It is SoE's game, and they can do anything in regards to it they wish. According to the EULA, they can suspend or discontinue the service entirely at their leisure, with no recourse on the part of the customers. I do think it would be in their best interest to not get in the habit of removing bought and paid for account entitlements, or to state simply and unequivocally that they plan to do just that, and that your purchases yesterday have no bearing on your account today.</p><p>edit:spelling</p>

arvydys
11-16-2011, 11:20 PM
<p><cite>TalisX1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Also, Beastlord is obviously different because of the way it is being released.</p></blockquote><p>How is it different? You must buy an expansion to be able to use it. How is that different from Fae/Sarnak again?</p><p>Make free accounts pay to unlock it after purchasing AoD. We wouldn't want those free guys to get something they did not pay for right Icculuss?</p><p>Silat</p></blockquote><p>Because they decided that it would be available for f2p people that purchase AoD just as they decided to allow only 8 of the other 24 classes people paid for with the eq2 box sale.</p><p>Just as Turbine decided to allow quests in only 3 of its zones for free to people that bought that game</p>

arvydys
11-16-2011, 11:23 PM
<p><cite>Adaeon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>On neither of the pages I linked, nor in my account information, do I see mention of them being anything other than an ACCOUNT entitlement. There is no mention of them only being available under certain payment plans. </p></blockquote><p>When you bought the expansion its right on your box or download page that subscription fees are required</p>

Adaeon
11-16-2011, 11:27 PM
<p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Adaeon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>On neither of the pages I linked, nor in my account information, do I see mention of them being anything other than an ACCOUNT entitlement. There is no mention of them only being available under certain payment plans. </p></blockquote><p>When you bought the expansion its right on your box or download page that subscription fees are required</p></blockquote><p>My understanding is that they are eliminating that requirement to play EQ2. It seems to be the centerpiece of the recent announcement, in fact. I didn't see that past purchases would be invalidated, either in race packs or expansions.</p><p>Am I mistaken?</p>

arvydys
11-16-2011, 11:27 PM
<p><cite>Adaeon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It is SoE's game, and they can do anything in regards to it they wish. According to the EULA, they can suspend or discontinue the service entirely at their leisure, with no recourse on the part of the customers. I do think it would be in their best interest to not get in the habit of removing bought and paid for account entitlements, or to state simply and unequivocally that they plan to do just that, and that your purchases yesterday have no bearing on your account today.</p></blockquote><p>They are actually changing it in a positive way as you know have access to 99% of what you bought knowing you would need a sub to play without that sub.</p><p>If they changed it negatively it would mean that everyone has to pay to be a sarnak, not just bronze/silver</p>

arvydys
11-16-2011, 11:29 PM
<p><cite>Adaeon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Adaeon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>On neither of the pages I linked, nor in my account information, do I see mention of them being anything other than an ACCOUNT entitlement. There is no mention of them only being available under certain payment plans. </p></blockquote><p>When you bought the expansion its right on your box or download page that subscription fees are required</p></blockquote><p>My understanding is that they are eliminating that requirement to play EQ2. It seems to be the centerpiece of the recent announcement, in fact. I didn't see that past purchases would be invalidated, either in race packs or expansions.</p><p>Am I mistaken?</p></blockquote><p>How is it invalidated?  you can still do exactly what you have done before.  no one is having anything taken away.</p><p>So yes, you are mistaken.  It doesnt say 'sub fee required until we stop charging sub fees'</p><p>They have every right to choose what they let you access for free.  And they have been very generous with that.</p><p>Now if people wanted to ask for one free race or class unlocked as a veteran perk i would support that.  But they drew the line with what is allowed to be accessed without a sub and what is, and just be glad they didnt go the route of AA trees or something else.</p>

Sidharrah
11-16-2011, 11:36 PM
<p>I have been avidly following all the threads I can find on all the different issues involved with the coming changes, and the new expansion. And I have to admit, all of it is a bit overwhelming, because this merge is happening at the same time as the release of the new expansion, AND at the same time as a change in the way expansions are done. It seems like SOE is juggling perhaps one-too-many balls with all of these things happening all at once.</p><p>However, I want to make sure I understand what the issues are and what is going on, so I guess the best way is to lay out what I <em>think</em> is happening, and hopefully people more knowledgeable than I can correct me if I'm mistaken.</p><p>Expansions used to be a package of new content, new continents, quests, races, etc. If you bought the expansion, you'd get access to all that new stuff. You'd have to buy the expansion to even set foot in the new areas, or be able to make a character using one of the new races. Game updates would be free updates that added new features to the game. It seems like they have now switched these, so now the new content, landmass, and quests are done in free game update style, and the features that used to be added free are now part of a paid expansion. The exception to this seems to be new races or classes, which still need to be purchased when they come out (such as freeblood race, or beastlord class). I don't know that we can use the Freeblood race or the Beastlord class in any sort of comparison to the way these things were released in the past, as they are being released under the new arrangement, and not in the fashion of past expansions. So this in itself is causing a bit of upheaval.</p><p>On top of the above, they are simultaneously changing all the current subscription servers so they also allow the FTP memberships, and converting the Extended server to be the same as subscriptions servers, which is causing an upheaval all its own. </p><p>So the particular chunk of upheaval in this thread is whether or not people who purchased EoF and RoK purchased the Fae and Sarnak races as part of their expansion. It was advertised as a selling point of both those expansions, no? (I was on extended leave from the game for a number of years, so I don't actually know what the advertising said). But that would lead me to believe the answer is yes, they were purchased. Under the incoming model of how things will be done, they are both restricted races that will need to be unlocked in order to play them without a subscription. Under the current Live model, they are both races that cannot be played at all without a subscription regardless of access granted due to previous purchase. So whether you are using the new model or the old model, without a subscription (and by this I mean the $15.00 or so per month recurring type charge) they are unplayable. BUT under the incoming model, with an unlocker, they can be played even without a sbscription. That sort of seems like an improvement to me, but's that's only my opinion.</p><p>I could argue that as I bought the original box copy of EQ2, I purchased ALL the classes and races that were part of the original game as part of my purchase, so why am I subject to restrictions on a bronze or silver account? This is content I purchased and therefore unlocked, no? But I don't think it's fair to apply subscription level rules (or gold membership rules if you prefer) to FTP players. As long as I pay my subscription, I have access to everything I originally purchased, be it class, race, or whatever (or at least I will once the services are merged). If I don't pay, then I will lose access to some aspects of the game. I'd rather lose access to some races or classes than lose access to the entire game, because I am a hopeless sucker for EQ2.</p><p>Anyway, coming to the end of the wall of text, I'm trying to understand why this is causing so much problem. I'm fairly certain that when those expansions came out, there was something on the box along the lines of "Additonal subscription fees apply." So without an active subscription, those races weren't playable anyway, and everyone seemed okay with that for years. I genuinely want to know why it's not okay now, because I feel as though I'm missing something.</p>

arvydys
11-16-2011, 11:43 PM
<p><cite>Sidharrah wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anyway, coming to the end of the wall of text, I'm trying to understand why this is causing so much problem. I'm fairly certain that when those expansions came out, there was something on the box along the lines of "Additonal subscription fees apply." So without an active subscription, those races weren't playable anyway, and everyone seemed okay with that for years. I genuinely want to know why it's not okay now, because I feel as though I'm missing something.</p></blockquote><p>Welcome to the Age of Entitlement</p>

Adaeon
11-16-2011, 11:44 PM
<p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Adaeon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It is SoE's game, and they can do anything in regards to it they wish. According to the EULA, they can suspend or discontinue the service entirely at their leisure, with no recourse on the part of the customers. I do think it would be in their best interest to not get in the habit of removing bought and paid for account entitlements, or to state simply and unequivocally that they plan to do just that, and that your purchases yesterday have no bearing on your account today.</p></blockquote><p>They are actually changing it in a positive way as you know have access to 99% of what you bought knowing you would need a sub to play without that sub.</p><p>If they changed it negatively it would mean that everyone has to pay to be a sarnak, not just bronze/silver</p></blockquote><p>Actually, in my case, I think I might have one character who would fit the bronze/silver restrictions. So, were I to choose to cancel my subscription, I would lose a great deal more than 1% of my current access.</p><p>That really isn't the point I was trying to make, however. My point is that I (and many others) have already paid a premium for the races to which access was part of the expansion purchase. I don't understand why spending $7.50 last week will maintain access where spending $80 in the past above and beyond subscription fees does not.</p><p>I never paid a premium to wear legendary or fabled gear, thus I have no argument with those being restricted should I choose to go 'F2P'. I did for access to the Fae and Sarnak races, and by extension the Arasai. I did quest for Froglok access, but again, I did not pay extra for it, so I can't argue against its removal.</p><p>Going back and forth over this will likely serve no purpose. I simply wanted to give my viewpoint, and the reasoning behind it, on the off chance that a SoE employee might read the thread and find it worthy of consideration.</p><p>Best of luck to you, and see you in game <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

screenid
11-16-2011, 11:45 PM
<p><cite>Adaeon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>First, let me say I plan on maintaining my subscription for the time being at least.</p><p>That being said, the folks arguing against past expansion buyers being entitled to the races are making an argument I simply don't understand. I checked my account page and got the following (cut and pasted):</p><p># Entitlement: Desert of Flames + In-Game Item: Genie Bottle# Entitlement: Destiny of Velious# Entitlement: Echoes of Faydwer# Entitlement: EverQuest II Beta Access<strong># Entitlement: Froglok</strong># Entitlement: Kingdom of Sky# Entitlement: Rise of Kunark# Entitlement: Sentinel's Fate# Entitlement: The Bloodline Chronicles# Entitlement: The Fallen Dynasty# Entitlement: The Shadow Odyssey All-In-One Pack# Entitlement: The Splitpaw Saga</p><p>Additionally, let me refer you to SoE's knowledgebase:</p><p><a href="http://soe-ing.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16651/kw/unable%20to%20create%20a%20fae" target="_blank">Only customers who have purchased the Echoes of Faydwer expansion will be able to <em>create</em> a <em>Fae</em> character, although anyone will be able to see them in the game.</a></p><p><a href="http://soe-ing.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/19290/kw/races%20available%20in%20EQ2">Fae (Must have Echoes of Faydwer)</a></p><p><a href="http://soe-ing.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/19290/kw/races%20available%20in%20EQ2">Arasai (Must have Echoes of Faydwer) </a></p><p><a href="http://soe-ing.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/19290/kw/races%20available%20in%20EQ2" target="_blank">Sarnak (Must have Rise of Kunark)</a></p><p>While I understand that SoE has chosen to present other methods to access these races, I do not understand how offering lower priced alternatives negates my previous purchases, at more expense,  granting these entitlements.</p><p>I have also seen the argument that the F2P model somehow changes things, as previously we would be unable to access any content without a subscription.  That argument seems semantic at best, but permit me to address it nonetheless.</p><p>On neither of the pages I linked, nor in my account information, do I see mention of them being anything other than an ACCOUNT entitlement. There is no mention of them only being available under certain payment plans. My understanding is that on EQ2X there was that restriction, however, I am not an EQ2X subscriber, nor by my understanding will there BE such a thing when the changeover occurs. Rather, I will continue to be and the former EQ2X players will become simply EQ2 players.</p><p>It is SoE's game, and they can do anything in regards to it they wish. According to the EULA, they can suspend or discontinue the service entirely at their leisure, with no recourse on the part of the customers. I do think it would be in their best interest to not get in the habit of removing bought and paid for account entitlements, or to state simply and unequivocally that they plan to do just that, and that your purchases yesterday have no bearing on your account today.</p><p>edit:spelling</p></blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  LOL--- well it also says   --Due to their good alignment, the <em>Fae</em> can travel freely within the city of Qeynos and are welcomed by the citizens there for amenities and quests,<strong> although they cannot make Qeynos their permanent residence. </strong></p><p><em>Means ---  SOE needs to update their   Knowledgebase</em> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I cannot find anywhere "currently" where it states  -- "Free To Play"  players are entilted to also play the FAE for Free if they own EOF.</p>

Shailas
11-16-2011, 11:48 PM
<p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sidharrah wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anyway, coming to the end of the wall of text, I'm trying to understand why this is causing so much problem. I'm fairly certain that when those expansions came out, there was something on the box along the lines of "Additonal subscription fees apply." So without an active subscription, those races weren't playable anyway, and everyone seemed okay with that for years. I genuinely want to know why it's not okay now, because I feel as though I'm missing something.</p></blockquote><p>Welcome to the Age of Entitlement</p></blockquote><p>If I paid for something then I would think I am entitled to it.</p>

Sidharrah
11-16-2011, 11:49 PM
<p><cite>Adaeon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Adaeon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It is SoE's game, and they can do anything in regards to it they wish. According to the EULA, they can suspend or discontinue the service entirely at their leisure, with no recourse on the part of the customers. I do think it would be in their best interest to not get in the habit of removing bought and paid for account entitlements, or to state simply and unequivocally that they plan to do just that, and that your purchases yesterday have no bearing on your account today.</p></blockquote><p>They are actually changing it in a positive way as you know have access to 99% of what you bought knowing you would need a sub to play without that sub.</p><p>If they changed it negatively it would mean that everyone has to pay to be a sarnak, not just bronze/silver</p></blockquote><p>Actually, in my case, I think I might have one character who would fit the bronze/silver restrictions. So, were I to choose to cancel my subscription, I would lose a great deal more than 1% of my current access.</p><p>That really isn't the point I was trying to make, however. My point is that I (and many others) have already paid a premium for the races to which access was part of the expansion purchase. I don't understand why spending $7.50 last week will maintain access where spending $80 in the past above and beyond subscription fees does not.</p><p>I never paid a premium to wear legendary or fabled gear, thus I have no argument with those being restricted should I choose to go 'F2P'. I did for access to the Fae and Sarnak races, and by extension the Arasai. I did quest for Froglok access, but again, I did not pay extra for it, so I can't argue against its removal.</p><p>Going back and forth over this will likely serve no purpose. I simply wanted to give my viewpoint, and the reasoning behind it, on the off chance that a SoE employee might read the thread and find it worthy of consideration.</p><p>Best of luck to you, and see you in game <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Did it cost more to get a copy of EoF or RoK that allowed you to play those races? Was it only available in the collector's edition? Because then that makes a whole ot more sense to me as to why people are so upset about this. </p>

arvydys
11-17-2011, 12:08 AM
<p><cite>Adaeon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Actually, in my case, I think I might have one character who would fit the bronze/silver restrictions. So, were I to choose to cancel my subscription, I would lose a great deal more than 1% of my current access.</p></blockquote><p>you would still be able to go into every zone, dungeon or raid would you not?</p><p>Look at the example I used in the past few posts:</p><p>Turbine cut off access to the games quests and made people pay to unlock them regardless if they bought the game or not.</p><p>SoE did it with races and classes.</p><p>You have to draw the line somewhere.  You cant have f2p so attractive that most people would choose it over their subs.</p><p>The main reason for this isnt for existing customers, its to draw new customers and get them into the game.  8 classes and 4 races is enough options for a new player and none fo the content through SF is off limits to them (even with the gear/spellr estrictions).  As opposed to LOTRO where once past Bree you cant quest.</p><p>Given how cheap the unlockers are the fact that the gold cap isnt that severe for silver, nor is the bag space, they have to charge for SOMETHING.</p><p>And again, this was designed for newer players more than it was for vets.</p><p>But vets do get perks in this.  New players to play with, and if you have a recurring sub, like most do, you get sc that you can use to unlock stuff if you choose.  The key thing is your game has not changed.  If you stay subbed, nothing is taken away.  </p><p>Now if they went the route of charging people 7 bucks to unlock steamfont quests and 10 bucks for heritage quest bundle number 2, that would be more favorable for the vets that already did them, but unfair for the vets that like alts and even worse for the newbies.</p><p>SoE cant please everyone, the line was drawn, they are well within their legal rights without even using the EULA clauses and frankly I dont think its an unfair way of doing it.  They arent a charity, and I dont think you can honestly say that they have been greedy with this thing at all.</p>

arvydys
11-17-2011, 12:10 AM
<p><cite>Shailas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sidharrah wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anyway, coming to the end of the wall of text, I'm trying to understand why this is causing so much problem. I'm fairly certain that when those expansions came out, there was something on the box along the lines of "Additonal subscription fees apply." So without an active subscription, those races weren't playable anyway, and everyone seemed okay with that for years. I genuinely want to know why it's not okay now, because I feel as though I'm missing something.</p></blockquote><p>Welcome to the Age of Entitlement</p></blockquote><p>If I paid for something then I would think I am entitled to it.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, but you didnt pay for access to anything prior to DoV without a sub.  That is 100% indisputable fact.  You did NOT pay for it.</p>

Shailas
11-17-2011, 12:15 AM
<p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shailas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sidharrah wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anyway, coming to the end of the wall of text, I'm trying to understand why this is causing so much problem. I'm fairly certain that when those expansions came out, there was something on the box along the lines of "Additonal subscription fees apply." So without an active subscription, those races weren't playable anyway, and everyone seemed okay with that for years. I genuinely want to know why it's not okay now, because I feel as though I'm missing something.</p></blockquote><p>Welcome to the Age of Entitlement</p></blockquote><p>If I paid for something then I would think I am entitled to it.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, but you didnt pay for access to anything prior to DoV without a sub.  That is 100% indisputable fact.  You did NOT pay for it.</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand your sentence.  I have paid for all the content through Destiny of Velious, and paid my subscription for years now.  I've been a continuous SOE customer for one game or another (usually multiple games) since 2000.</p>

arvydys
11-17-2011, 12:22 AM
<p><cite>Shailas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shailas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sidharrah wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anyway, coming to the end of the wall of text, I'm trying to understand why this is causing so much problem. I'm fairly certain that when those expansions came out, there was something on the box along the lines of "Additonal subscription fees apply." So without an active subscription, those races weren't playable anyway, and everyone seemed okay with that for years. I genuinely want to know why it's not okay now, because I feel as though I'm missing something.</p></blockquote><p>Welcome to the Age of Entitlement</p></blockquote><p>If I paid for something then I would think I am entitled to it.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, but you didnt pay for access to anything prior to DoV without a sub.  That is 100% indisputable fact.  You did NOT pay for it.</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand your sentence.  I have paid for all the content through Destiny of Velious, and paid my subscription for years now.  I've been a continuous SOE customer for one game or another (usually multiple games) since 2000.</p></blockquote><p>Anything bought prior to DoV was noted as requiring a sub to access the content.  So no one ever bought the rights to any of that content in a f2p setting</p>

Shailas
11-17-2011, 12:27 AM
<p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shailas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shailas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sidharrah wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anyway, coming to the end of the wall of text, I'm trying to understand why this is causing so much problem. I'm fairly certain that when those expansions came out, there was something on the box along the lines of "Additonal subscription fees apply." So without an active subscription, those races weren't playable anyway, and everyone seemed okay with that for years. I genuinely want to know why it's not okay now, because I feel as though I'm missing something.</p></blockquote><p>Welcome to the Age of Entitlement</p></blockquote><p>If I paid for something then I would think I am entitled to it.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, but you didnt pay for access to anything prior to DoV without a sub.  That is 100% indisputable fact.  You did NOT pay for it.</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand your sentence.  I have paid for all the content through Destiny of Velious, and paid my subscription for years now.  I've been a continuous SOE customer for one game or another (usually multiple games) since 2000.</p></blockquote><p>Anything bought prior to DoV was noted as requiring a sub to access the content.  So no one ever bought the rights to any of that content in a f2p setting</p></blockquote><p>You can still pay a subscription and access that content.  Even after the game converts to this new format.  Either way they'll be doing it without me.  I don't want to play an FTP game or in a game world where FTP is an option.</p>

Wingrider01
11-17-2011, 11:04 AM
<p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shailas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shailas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sidharrah wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anyway, coming to the end of the wall of text, I'm trying to understand why this is causing so much problem. I'm fairly certain that when those expansions came out, there was something on the box along the lines of "Additonal subscription fees apply." So without an active subscription, those races weren't playable anyway, and everyone seemed okay with that for years. I genuinely want to know why it's not okay now, because I feel as though I'm missing something.</p></blockquote><p>Welcome to the Age of Entitlement</p></blockquote><p>If I paid for something then I would think I am entitled to it.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, but you didnt pay for access to anything prior to DoV without a sub.  That is 100% indisputable fact.  You did NOT pay for it.</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand your sentence.  I have paid for all the content through Destiny of Velious, and paid my subscription for years now.  I've been a continuous SOE customer for one game or another (usually multiple games) since 2000.</p></blockquote><p>Anything bought prior to DoV was noted as requiring a sub to access the content.  So no one ever bought the rights to any of that content in a f2p setting</p></blockquote><p>funny person - even if you payed for a subscription and did not pay extra for the expansion you could not play the content.</p><p>Interesting point, this is from a account that I canceled when the ability to purchase slots was brought in, now realize the account is unsubscribed</p><li>Entitlement: Desert of Flames + In-Game Item: Genie Bottle</li><li>Entitlement: Echoes of Faydwer</li><li>Entitlement: Kingdom of Sky</li><li>Entitlement: Rise of Kunark</li><li>Entitlement: Sentinel's Fate</li><li>Entitlement: The Bloodline Chronicles</li><li>Entitlement: The Fallen Dynasty</li><li>Entitlement: The Shadow Odyssey All-In-One Pack</li><li>Entitlement: The Splitpaw Saga</li><p>Please note the word "entitlement", specificly the prefex "entitle" so your comment is incorrect, even theough the account is unsubscribed, the simple fact is the account is still entitled to access the content and abilities.</p><p>Bottom line - they want to double dip for legacly players that paid plus 200.00 over the years for the entitlement of accessing content and features with the purchase expasnion.</p><p>You did ask in one of your other posts to provide proof that the items are "entitled" it is documented in your account details - wether or not you have a active subscription - it is still documented as "entitled". the proof is shown above, it basicly shows that you are entitled to everything that was made avaialable with the expansion.</p>

Nrgy
11-17-2011, 07:44 PM
<p>The truth hurts, my brother, the truth hurts....Double Dipping isn't anything new, unfortunately.  Lose a train ticket, Buy a used car, the list goes on and on.</p><p>This being the Age of Entitlement is true... SOE feels entitled to double charge people that they already charged once.  Have no fear, in cometh the legalize and the "Spin Doctors".  "When you bought the past expansions you were 'entitled' to pay SOE money for the content.  The content will be defined based on how we see fit and will change later on when SOE wants to make more scratch.  At the time you purchased any and all expansion content, SOE simply allowed you to use the races and classes out of the kindness of their hearts, but the gravey train is over and you'll have to pony up again.  Now bend over, I think I see something green sticking out of your rump!".</p><p><span style="color: #999999; font-size: xx-small;">estimated Mod time = 5 minutes</span></p>

bunnykiller69
11-18-2011, 12:14 AM
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #ffcc00; font-size: small;">Yea being an elf i really dont like the idea to FTP i will have to pay an unlock just to log in free again, Frankly I think it should all be grand fathered or this is another </span><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #ffcc00; font-size: small;">FAIL BOAT by SOE </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="color: #ffcc00;"> </span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #ffcc00; font-size: small;">1. I am ok with my gear getting locked or having to pay to unlock it really though I think it should be grand fathered considering how much money I have given soe over the past 7 years of expansions and monthly subs.</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #ffcc00; font-size: small;">2. Think about it vet random hears EQ2 is now FTP they might come back, o wait i have to give a month of sub of money to play my race and class thats not FREE <span style="color: #00ff00;">"PEACE OUT that back to RIFT"</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #ffcc00; font-size: small;">3. Even if that vet player decides to pay the money to unlock there class and race then SOE will hold out its hand agian and want money to unlock there gear.... <span style="color: #00ff00;">"Wait you want me to Pay agian Geez another game with Sub would be cheaper...NO SIR $$"</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="color: #ffcc00;"> </span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="color: #ffcc00;">This will EPIC FAIL like that but again i haven't herd soe official word but what i am reading here is another titanic in the making Fail boat 101 </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="color: #ffcc00;">if the argument is made this is for new players i must ask you have you taken many blows to the head, this games graphics are about 7 years old new players will be more likely to play RIFT or something current </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="color: #ffcc00;">*sorry soe no sugar coating it you need to hear it like it is, you need to find true solutions to the problems here hopefully you hire some folks who have done FTP games before*</span></span></p>