PDA

View Full Version : Really ? you are going to strip me and make me go naked unless I pay ?


bunnykiller69
11-14-2011, 08:17 AM
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">Items: Any Legendary or Fabled items are automatically removed from your character and placed in your inventory when you downgrade from Gold. You can use them again when you renew your Gold membership.</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="color: #00ff00;"><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><strong><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: lime; font-size: 9pt;">Really ? you are going to strip me and make me go naked unless I pay ? I think this should be retro if I have the items on or already bound before the switch I should keep them otherwise I don't see this bringing back many old players. Those players would immediately be turned off by the fact you are taking away all there hard earned gear.</span></strong></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><strong><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: lime; font-size: 9pt;"> </span></strong></p><font color="#00ff00"></font></span></span></strong></p>

Filly67
11-14-2011, 08:30 AM
<p>I don't believe that it's meant to bring back old players, it's looking forward to new ones that have not tried the game.  At least that's how it appears to me.</p>

The_Cheeseman
11-14-2011, 08:32 AM
<p>Playing a naked toon is a lot better than the current alternative: not playing ANY toon.</p>

Frenzywolf
11-14-2011, 08:32 AM
<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Playing a naked toon is a lot better than the current alternative: not playing ANY toon.</p></blockquote><p>LOL! Really? A naked toon cannot do much!</p>

bunnykiller69
11-14-2011, 08:48 AM
<p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #000000; font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #00ff00;">Soe really needs new people they are clueless. If they had vision for the future EQ3 in DX10 would be shipping already. so saying they are looking to the future is a JOKE hardcore mode. </span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #000000; font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #00ff00;">1. New players [will expect current graphics this game does not even have shader 3.0] Trying to market it to new players will not work. Free will get allot of influx but that wont turn into $$ Look at the options for free to play now days ? Soe's game is very old in comparison to the other games I can play for free and not be stripped naked I don't see this generating allot of "NEW Players" due to antiquated graphics</span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #000000; font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #00ff00;">DDO, Conan, War hammer, the list goes on all Free to play</span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #000000; font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #00ff00;">2. The majority of what i see happing is alot of older players comming back getting angry they got striped naked with daddy soe holding out his hand pay me !!</span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #000000; font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #00ff00;">3. Look at the other free to play models soe none of them delimit gear in to free or paid tears this is to far and just pisses players off. thats only a few steps from putting fabled gear in the store and selling it for station cash =)</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #000000; font-size: 9pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span style="color: #00ff00;">content is how you limit the players they cant access the areas to get that gear. not pay us or you cant wear that....that's going to come off poorly. i would seriously hire some people who have FTP expertise to help you guys. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></p>

darwich
11-14-2011, 08:52 AM
why should you have the same abilities and armors as people that PAY their subscription?? you apparently think you are entitled in life just as in game it seems...

bunnykiller69
11-14-2011, 09:01 AM
<p><cite>darwich wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>why should you have the same abilities and armors as people that PAY their subscription?? you apparently think you are entitled in life just as in game it seems...</blockquote><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #00ff00; font-size: 9pt;">i agree that all items post free to play should be limited, pre is stupid. so if i get any more fabled or such i would have to ether buy unlocks or pay but saying i have to pay for my gear i already gained post is lame I paid for that with my subs clowns =)</span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #00ff00; font-size: 9pt;">Example. </span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #00ff00; font-size: 9pt;">all my Pre Free to play items are unlocked, any items I get post Free to play are not, i think that's very reasonable and would get most old people playing again and we might see some stay this time. </span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #00ff00; font-size: 9pt;">The only reason i wont sub this game right now long term every time i come back NOBODY PLAYS, like 99% of the hundreds of people i knew QUIT. </span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #00ff00; font-size: 9pt;">There is nobody to group with or raid with. if you fix that I would Sub, i want FTP to succeed so i have people to play with i just see soe doing there usual fail boat.</span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="color: #00ff00;">================================================== =========================================</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><p style="margin-left: 12pt; margin-right: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: lime; font-size: 9pt;">Making the card game instead of EQ3 is an example of fail boat by SOE</span><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 9pt;"></span></p><font color="#00ff00"><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: lime; font-size: 9pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">Making players pay for there items again is another fail boat move by SOE</span></p></font></span><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"> </p></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"> </p>

feldon30
11-14-2011, 09:11 AM
<p>You're mad because EQ2 requires a subscription to enjoy the whole game.</p><p>Rage/Troll thread is obvious. Close it.</p>

yohann koldheart
11-14-2011, 09:15 AM
<p>if your not paying your sub pre f2p conversion you shouldn't get anything post f2p conversion.</p><p>your gear should fall off in your bags and you should have to buy unlockers just like anyone else that don't pay.</p>

The_Cheeseman
11-14-2011, 09:16 AM
<p>Your suggestion, which seems to simply amount to, "I feel I deserve to play EQ2 for free with all the same benefits I've had thus far as a paid subscriber" may in fact attract a lot of new folks to EQ2. However, those people wouldn't be paying for subscriptions, and therefore would not actually be customers. You see, customers actually pay for a service.</p><p>SOE is hoping that going Free-to-play will attract people to try out the game and--if they like it--become paying customers. In order for this to happen, there needs to be a strong incentive for people to actually subscribe. If you could play for free without any significant sacrifices, there would be no reason to subscribe. Of course you can't fully enjoy the game without subscribing, that's the entire idea.</p><p>At the end of the day, current subscribers have lost absolutely nothing, and the new membership options make the game far more approachable for new players, which will hopefully increase the population of subscribers.</p>

bunnykiller69
11-14-2011, 09:21 AM
<p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #000000; font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #00ff00;">Calling me a troll ? Is that your only counter point ? maybe add why i am wrong or something constructive =)</span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #000000; font-size: 9pt;"><span style="color: #00ff00;">I play ddo, and war hammer and Conan all free to play and enjoy them. i have no problem with free to play sub in the end soe can do whatever it wants and that will dictate how much money they get. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #000000; font-size: 9pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span style="color: #00ff00;">Look at the other free to play games and copy there models gear is never used. really most successful free to play models dont even kick in till you have advanced 50% though the game they figure by that time your attachment will cause you to sub</span>. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">i guess in ending wow internet people are crazy as hell, i will just wait and see what soe does, if the unlocks are not horrible expensive i may even drop another 10-15 to unlock my current suit however if that goes over a month sub soe can kiss my TOOTY ! =)</span></p>

Daggster
11-14-2011, 09:42 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Playing a naked toon is a lot better than the current alternative: not playing ANY toon.</p></blockquote><p>LOL! Really? A naked toon cannot do much!</p></blockquote><p>A heck of a lot more than a disconnected toon.</p>

Luhai
11-14-2011, 09:51 AM
<p>You're not forced to play a naked toon. You can still wear trasured or ordinary crafted stuff. It's not awesome but hey - it's for free.</p>

agentsix
11-14-2011, 09:55 AM
<p><cite>bunnykiller69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana; color: #00ff00;">Example. </span></p><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana; color: #00ff00;">all my Pre Free to play items are unlocked, any items I get post Free to play are not, i think that's very reasonable and would get most old people playing again and we might see some stay this time.</span></p></blockquote><p>Current Extended players who PAID to copy over their toon from their home servers did not get this free unlocking. In fact, after copying their toon they may have been totally stripped based on their account level.</p><p>Funny, I didn't see any complaining on the Extended servers. It seems that they were happy to be on a populated server with options as to how they want to pay for their gaming time.</p>

Senya
11-14-2011, 10:04 AM
<p>I assume you are a subscriber now, and willing to pay for gear unlocks up to 15 dollars.. why not just keep paying the sub and have nothing really change? </p>

Nynaeve
11-14-2011, 10:39 AM
<p><span style="color: #ffffff;"><cite>bunnykiller69 wrote:</cite></span></p><blockquote><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff;"><span>I can play for free and not be stripped naked I don't see this generating allot of "NEW Players" due to antiquated graphics</span></span><p style="margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff;"><span>DDO, Conan, War hammer, the list goes on all Free to play</span></span></p></blockquote><p>I took a look at AoC. It appears you can do much less over there without paying than you can do in EQ2.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ageofconan.com/playfree" target="_blank">http://www.ageofconan.com/playfree</a></p><p>FREE: only 4 classes out of 12 available, Only non-premium dungeons, only 2 raids out of ??, Alternative Advancement locked, Sieges unavailable, only restricted access to the last expansion. Another example is Lotro which is also quite restricted without pay.</p><p>Apparently AoC is not FREE either - there's no such thing as a decent totally free mmo.</p><p>I for one would be happy if people who believe they're entitled to something leave the game, I've seen enough tantrums thrown with ridiculous demands and delusions of grandeur from rage quitters.</p>

avrid
11-14-2011, 10:54 AM
<p>not only will they strip you but if you have and expert/ master spell you will not be able to use them in combat either.</p><p>but considering that in the current financal model if you stopped playing you couldn't get on at all that is an improvement.</p><p>if you choose to stop paying a monthly sub you will have to put out some sc in order to make your hi level characters playable</p>

screenid
11-14-2011, 10:56 AM
<p><cite>avrid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>not only will they strip you but if you have and expert/ master spell you will not be able to use them in combat either.</p><p>but considering that in the current financal model if you stopped playing you couldn't get on at all that is an improvement.</p><p>if you choose to stop paying a monthly sub you will have to put out some sc in order to make your hi level characters playable</p></blockquote><p>On EQ2X if you scribbed a MASTER SPELL and dropped to FTP  - your spells did not downgrade.  You still can use your MASTER and EXPERT lvl of that SPELL</p>

yohann koldheart
11-14-2011, 11:00 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>avrid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>not only will they strip you but if you have and expert/ master spell you will not be able to use them in combat either.</p><p>but considering that in the current financal model if you stopped playing you couldn't get on at all that is an improvement.</p><p>if you choose to stop paying a monthly sub you will have to put out some sc in order to make your hi level characters playable</p></blockquote><p>On EQ2X if you scribbed a MASTER SPELL and dropped to FTP  - your spells did not downgrade.  You still can use your MASTER and EXPERT lvl of that SPELL</p></blockquote><p>this is how it works, if your free you just cant scribe any master that drops without of course buying a unlocker.</p><p>but if your gold and  have masters scribed then drop to free you dont loose what you got scribed,</p>

thewarriorpoet
11-14-2011, 11:08 AM
<p>I'm actually with the OP on this one. If I have a gold account that lapses into Silver then my currently equiped gear should be treated as though it was put on with unlocks from the store. My reasoning is that it costs a lot less then the monthly rate to equip everything I had one, even across the 4 toons you can play at silver. However, I am a lot more likely to lapse to silver and go play something else if I have to pay to KEEP WHAT I ALREADY PAID FOR as gold. This will cause people who would have gone from gold to silver and kept pay and buying things now and then to just not playing and therefore not paying. The one time show of good faith could go a long way.</p>

BixxbyIndestructible
11-14-2011, 11:24 AM
<p>They won't do it though. SOE has become old and out of touch. Watch the podcast recap. It looks like a late night informercial for erection pills. These people have no business being in the games industry. Sony is past its prime and needs to reinvigorate itself with young people who have some semblance of an idea what will look attractive to new customers while still pleasing the old ones. The Free to Play conversion is awful and as consumers you shouldn't just sit down and say thank you ma'am. </p>

Labruja
11-14-2011, 11:24 AM
<p>When we originally bought EQ2 and every expansion thereafter, we were informed that everything that was included in the game was subject to a subscription.  That being said, I am astounded at the sheer gall of people acting as though they are born entitled.  Imo SoE should hold every player who bought the game on those terms to the contract they accepted when they clicked on 'Agree'.  People have an unmitigated cheek demanding that nothing change if they CHOOSE not to pay for it.  </p>

BixxbyIndestructible
11-14-2011, 11:42 AM
<p>They are changing a service we've paid for for years without our consent. And they're not doing it to make the service better, they're doing it to milk the teet. Don't think for a minute John Smegley cares about his customers. Him and SOEs old guard are terrible at their job, and it's the reason SOE has been in the toilet bowl since 2004. </p>

ranga
11-14-2011, 12:03 PM
<p><cite>Labruja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>When we originally bought EQ2 and every expansion thereafter, we were informed that everything that was included in the game was subject to a subscription.  That being said, I am astounded at the sheer gall of people acting as though they are born entitled.  Imo SoE should hold every player who bought the game on those terms to the contract they accepted when they clicked on 'Agree'.  People have an unmitigated cheek demanding that nothing change if they CHOOSE not to pay for it.  </p></blockquote><p>You simply cannot keep citing the old model terms. They are changing the terms from what they were when we bought what we did.</p><p>The old terms will become irrelevant.</p><p>They are rolling F2P platinum subs into Gold and rolling subscription subs into Gold. They are giving ex Platinum subscribers AoD which they are not doing for vets and they are giving vets 500sc that cannot be used (at this time) for subs, so it is not as some claim, a discount to subscription.</p><p>Whilst you might be astounded, the complaints from vets are not 'gall' - some of those affected are simply dissatisfied with what their subscription IS BEING CHANGED TO.</p>

Velenda
11-14-2011, 12:15 PM
<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Your suggestion, which seems to simply amount to, "I feel I deserve to play EQ2 for free with all the same benefits I've had thus far as a paid subscriber" may in fact attract a lot of new folks to EQ2. However, those people wouldn't be paying for subscriptions, and therefore would not actually be customers. You see, customers actually pay for a service.</p><p>SOE is hoping that going Free-to-play will attract people to try out the game and--if they like it--become paying customers. In order for this to happen, there needs to be a strong incentive for people to actually subscribe. If you could play for free without any significant sacrifices, there would be no reason to subscribe. Of course you can't fully enjoy the game without subscribing, that's the entire idea.</p><p>At the end of the day, current subscribers have lost absolutely nothing, and the new membership options make the game far more approachable for new players, which will hopefully increase the population of subscribers.</p></blockquote><p>Once again The Cheeseman is the voice of reason.</p><p>Look guys I understand that this is a shock to some of you, and it's a big change for an older game to make, but try and look at this objectively. Yes, I've had my own issues, with some decisions that have been made in the past, (  and I'm nervous as hell about the Freeport revamp)...However it seems like SOE wants to meet us in a middle ground. I'm willing to give them that chance.</p><p>The undustry is changing and EQ2 is changing to meet that new business model, no looking back now.</p><p>Take a deep breath and decide whereyou want to be in the next month or so with the game, or wait and see how this all rolls out and then make an informed decision based on what you see.</p><p>I for one will be happy to see loads of new people in the game. Lots of folks to quest with, and plenty of new freinds to be had.</p><p>Just my 2 copper...</p>

yohann koldheart
11-14-2011, 12:18 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They are changing a service we've paid for for years without our consent.</p></blockquote><p>without your consent ?  what world do you live in that a business asks the costumer for " consent" before changing their product?</p><p>the sense of entitlement ive been seeing on the forums since they announced the f2p change is just amazing.</p>

ranga
11-14-2011, 12:32 PM
<p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They are changing a service we've paid for for years without our consent.</p></blockquote><p>without your consent ?  what world do you live in that a business asks the costumer for " consent" before changing their product?</p><p>the sense of entitlement ive been seeing on the forums since they announced the f2p change is just amazing.</p></blockquote><p>I really do understand what you are saying and there is a but...</p><p>Do you think any customer has any entitlement at all?</p><p>Are we wrong in saying that Call of the Veteran should work because it was given as a loyalty reward?</p><p>Are we wrong in saying that the re-itemisation should be redone because there are loads of items that drop but do not even have a level on them so they cannot be used or even transmuted?</p><p>Are we wrong in expecting raid scripts or mechanics to work?</p><p>In short, after parting with any amount of cash are we actually entitled to anything?</p><p>It appears that the proponents of the F2P model, whether they are vets or not think all of us are entitled to nothing.</p>

Darq
11-14-2011, 12:38 PM
<p><cite>Labruja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>When we originally bought EQ2 and every expansion thereafter, we were informed that everything that was included in the game was subject to a subscription.  That being said, I am astounded at the sheer gall of people acting as though they are born entitled.  Imo SoE should hold every player who bought the game on those terms to the contract they accepted when they clicked on 'Agree'.  People have an unmitigated cheek demanding that nothing change if they CHOOSE not to pay for it.  </p></blockquote><p>Nope. I just examined my EQ2 limited edition box and it reads (roughly translated)</p><p>"*30 day subscription included (except SOE all access subscribers), additional subscription fees afterwards. Internet connection required - player is responsible for internet connection fees"</p><p>local, regional, state, international laws > EULA. If everyone really read the EULA's contents no one would accept it. For instance it says, simplified, that everything you do, everything you create, anything is owned by SOE. All your characters, everything you produce is owned by SOE and their IP. Even this post.However common sense and laws say when you pay money for something you own it, also simplified. Also work you create is your IP.</p><p>Real life example (I know y'all love those). You buy a car, you agree to pay money to the seller and he agrees to give you the car. You own the car. You have to buy fuel to drive it. You decide to improve the looks of your car and pay for it. You decide to improve the car's engine and put a nice sound system in it and work and pay for it. Your car is now good looking and you're driving around with it since you can afford the fuel. You lose your job and can't afford to buy fuel. You can't drive the car anymore. However it's still good looking and it still has a nice sound system. It is still yours.</p><p>Now let's assume SOE is the seller.Before F2P: The car is owned by SOE. You can't enter, you can't sell it.After F2P. The car is owned by SOE. You can enter, you can't sell it, all improvements are stripped. That awesome sound system? gone. You can still sit in that car but you're not having fun. Others like you come along and you all push the cars to places you've already visited. Someone who didn't buy a SOE car but a Turbine car with a DDO sticker drives by and laughs at the sight of you saying "my car may not have looked as good as yours when you could afford fuel, however I'm still driving and not pushing my car and mine has more features than yours does now and I earned them all through spending my time at that DDO place"</p>

Jovie
11-14-2011, 12:53 PM
<p>Before anyone panics and deems that the sky is falling, i do believe somewhere in there you could purchase the ability to use certain things that are unavailable for free players.</p>

yohann koldheart
11-14-2011, 12:54 PM
<p>After F2P. The car is owned by SOE. You can enter, you can't sell it, all improvements are stripped. That awesome sound system? gone. You can still sit in that car but you're not having fun. Others like you come along and you all push the cars to places you've already visited. Someone who didn't buy a SOE car but a Turbine car with a DDO sticker drives by and laughs at the sight of you saying "my car may not have looked as good as yours when you could afford fuel, however I'm still driving and not pushing my car and mine has more features than yours does now and I earned them all through spending my time at that DDO place"</p><p><cite>Darq wrote:</cite></p><p>yes the car is owned by soe</p><p>after f2p if you arent gold, the sound system is removed but you can buy a new one " gear unlockers" , " spell unlockers" for spell upgrades etc etc.</p><p>you are renting soe's car and can buy upgrades for it if you choose the free, or silver car over the gold one.</p>

Nynaeve
11-14-2011, 01:06 PM
<p>To all the tantrum throwers : QUIT ALREADY</p><p>I'm sure somebody else will gladly take the spot in your raid. have a nice day!</p>

Brong
11-14-2011, 01:09 PM
<p>After reading over all the information, i think the gear check is probably the worst part of the whole deal.  It borders on having to spend money to compete.  You might as well have had gear upgrades on the SC store for years now, it boils down to the same mentality.  Let me spend money for gear.</p><p>You should at least set the Silver package to allow Legendary, this seems a bit more fair to the average player who will see tons of legendary gear while leveling and questing, but Fable is usually found on those who raid, (and if your raiding perhaps you should be an active member).</p><p>Anyway, my 2 cents, meh, im an All Access member anyways, but i was hoping this change would cut me a break across my 3 accounts.  After reading all of it, ill just leave them alone, the switch from gold to free is skewed a bit too drastic, and im sure thats what SoE is aiming for.  After all, they dont want everyone to simply go free.</p><p>PS.  I should have seen the RaF cancellation coming, no way you are going to allow people to RaF a Beastlord to 90 over a weekend.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>It was fun while it lasted.</p>

Nolrog
11-14-2011, 01:20 PM
<p><cite>Brong wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>PS.  I should have seen the RaF cancellation coming, no way you are going to allow people to RaF a Beastlord to 90 over a weekend.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote><p>The lack of RAF won't prevent people from having a level 90 beastlord after 2 days.</p>

yohann koldheart
11-14-2011, 01:21 PM
<p><cite>Brong wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>After reading over all the information, i think the gear check is probably the worst part of the whole deal.  It borders on having to spend money to compete.  You might as well have had gear upgrades on the SC store for years now, it boils down to the same mentality.  Let me spend money for gear.</p><p>You should at least set the Silver package to allow Legendary, this seems a bit more fair to the average player who will see tons of legendary gear while leveling and questing, but Fable is usually found on those who raid, (and if your raiding perhaps you should be an active member).</p></blockquote><p>its not even close to a pay to win mentality, the unlockers let you equip the gear after you havet hem on ur toon in game. they never had gear upgrades on the sc store, they used to have MC gear but that hasent been there for months .</p><p>the gear unlokcers are dirt cheap, like 500 sc for a 5 or 6 charge unlocker if i remember so nothing needs to change. fabled is not usualy found on raid gear either. almost evey mob in the game has a fabled loot  on its drop table.</p>

urgthock
11-14-2011, 01:27 PM
<p><cite><a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They are changing a service we've paid for for years without our consent. </p></blockquote><p>No they aren't. They are simply <strong>adding </strong>a new option that you can avail yourself of <strong>IF YOU CHOOSE.</strong></p><p>If you choose to stop paying your subscription, I would say you should get nothing. But SoE in their infinite wisdom has now stated that if you choose to stop paying your subscription, you will be allowed to continue to play the game. Albeit with some rather severe penalties. However, that is better than the current model where, if you choose to stop paying your subscription, you don't get to play ANYTHING.</p><p>Just as an FYI since you and many others can't seem to grasp the concept. If you continue to pay your subscription as you always have, nothing changes for you.</p><p><strong><span style="font-size: xx-large;">NOTHING!1!!ONE</span></strong></p>

GussJr
11-14-2011, 01:31 PM
<p><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just as an FYI since you and many others can't seem to grasp the concept. If you continue to pay your subscription as you always have, nothing changes for you.</p></blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

Maisland
11-14-2011, 01:36 PM
<p>I have less issues with this than I do with the fact that if you don't have any characters that combine one of the 4 races and 8 classes available to silver accounts you won't be able to log in at all.</p>

Brong
11-14-2011, 01:47 PM
<p><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite><a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote></blockquote><p>Just as an FYI since you and many others can't seem to grasp the concept. If you continue to pay your subscription as you always have, nothing changes for you.</p><p><strong><span style="font-size: xx-large;">NOTHING!1!!ONE</span></strong></p></blockquote><p>I think the misunderstanding is the way this news of the game going free to play is being broadcast.  To the normal subscriber, its really going "Freemium", keep paying what you pay, ignore this big news about Free to Play in a bid to entertain the masses and lure people into the game.  You current subs are fodder for this announcement, nothing free for you, move along.</p><p>I want free just as much as the next guy, but if i cant have my cake and eat it to then its just soggy cake.  Especially after i have invested seven years into the SoE eq2 machine.</p>

GussJr
11-14-2011, 01:47 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have less issues with this than I do with the fact that if you don't have any characters that combine one of the 4 races and 8 classes available to silver accounts you won't be able to log in at all.</p></blockquote><p>Even though this won't effect me at all...it is an interesting point.</p>

Brong
11-14-2011, 01:50 PM
<p>They should just make every race/class buyable from SC.  Buy what you are missing and use the silver level account.  (But i think you should be grandfathered in if you already have that race/class combo prior to nov 10th).</p>

Nynaeve
11-14-2011, 01:52 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have less issues with this than I do with the fact that if you don't have any characters that combine one of the 4 races and 8 classes available to silver accounts you won't be able to log in at all.</p></blockquote><p>you can access the Marketplace from the char-select screen, unlock what you need for a few bucks, or get a GOLD sub.</p><p>My races are all locked as well. sub to Gold and it will be the same as ever.</p>

Maisland
11-14-2011, 02:01 PM
<p><cite>GussJr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have less issues with this than I do with the fact that if you don't have any characters that combine one of the 4 races and 8 classes available to silver accounts you won't be able to log in at all.</p></blockquote><p>Even though this won't effect me at all...it is an interesting point.</p></blockquote><p>I have a friend who has been unable to play for a few months... because of the race/class limits, if he came back for the free to play, he would be unable to log in on any of his characters... and he has all slots filled.</p><p>Worse, since the marketplace can only really be accessed in game and unlockers are in game items that you use, he would not even be able to buy a race unlocker to allow him to play his main (a ratonga wizard) without deleting 4 characters that he has worked on for years and make an alt that he could use to access the marketplace.  Nor could I gift one to him.</p>

Maisland
11-14-2011, 02:02 PM
<p><cite>Nynaeve wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have less issues with this than I do with the fact that if you don't have any characters that combine one of the 4 races and 8 classes available to silver accounts you won't be able to log in at all.</p></blockquote><p>you can access the Marketplace from the char-select screen, unlock what you need for a few bucks, or get a GOLD sub.</p><p>My races are all locked as well. sub to Gold and it will be the same as ever.</p></blockquote><p>The "buy a character slot" button on the character select screen does not work and I have seen no such method of accessing the market as you describe.</p>

sick720
11-14-2011, 02:30 PM
<p>ok they are making the game free to play, whilst also having those who wish to still able to have a subscription. what makes the people who arent paying think they should have access to the same thing a person who is paying?</p><p>heres a scenario:</p><p>f2p person comes along, pays for one month and gears up then drops to f2p. with things the way you want them, you are now geared and playing for free. having pretty much the same level of service as those who subscribe. this is obviously unfair on those who pay to play.</p><p>"However, I am a lot more likely to lapse to silver and go play something else if I have to pay to KEEP WHAT I ALREADY PAID FOR as gold"</p><p>those who pay subscriptions are paying for the right to KEEP USING the items they have looted, its not a one off, buy the item and its yours, your effectively renting the right to use it, you stop renting, you lose the right.</p><p>and for the person with the rediculous car analogy - you may not be able to listen to the "amazing sound system" but you can still drive the bloody car!</p>

BixxbyIndestructible
11-14-2011, 02:39 PM
<p>What is so hard to grasp about the entire culture of the game changing when it goes from normal MMO structure to free to play? I swear to god, Everquest 2's playerbase is the biggest collection of [MENTALLY CHALLENGED INDIVIDUALS WHOSE PARENTS WERE PROBABLY SIBLINGS] this side of the special olympics. </p><p>Someone ask Smegley on twitter how many new CSRs he's going to hire with his teet money. I bet the answer is 0. Try sending a petition on LOTRO or DDO and enjoy the 6 month wait that never comes for an answer. Sony is already terrible at CS, now throw in thousands of 'YO DAWG I CAN'T FIND MY ATTACK BUTAN' petitions a day. </p>

CorpseGoddess
11-14-2011, 02:42 PM
<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Your suggestion, which seems to simply amount to, "I feel I deserve to play EQ2 for free with all the same benefits I've had thus far as a paid subscriber" may in fact attract a lot of new folks to EQ2. However, those people wouldn't be paying for subscriptions, and therefore would not actually be customers. You see, customers actually pay for a service.</p><p>SOE is hoping that going Free-to-play will attract people to try out the game and--if they like it--become paying customers. In order for this to happen, there needs to be a strong incentive for people to actually subscribe. If you could play for free without any significant sacrifices, there would be no reason to subscribe. Of course you can't fully enjoy the game without subscribing, that's the entire idea.</p><p>At the end of the day, current subscribers have lost absolutely nothing, and the new membership options make the game far more approachable for new players, which will hopefully increase the population of subscribers.</p></blockquote><p>This is just about the most leve-lheaded and reasoned response I've read in this whole brouhaha.  Nicely put.  I may nick this for future use.</p><p>If you don't mind, though...I'd like to humbly suggest a possibly edit, which I'll tag on here:</p><p>"You see, customers actually pay for a service, <em><span style="color: #ff0000;">regardless of their past patronage</span></em>."</p>

Ansek
11-14-2011, 02:44 PM
<p><cite>GussJr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have less issues with this than I do with the fact that if you don't have any characters that combine one of the 4 races and 8 classes available to silver accounts you won't be able to log in at all.</p></blockquote><p>Even though this won't effect me at all...it is an interesting point.</p></blockquote><p>This is the issue I have. I was really happy when they announced we'd finally be going F2P cos there are loads of people I'd like to see come back to the game, people like my husband and brother who, while they enjoyed the game, didn't enjoy it enough, or play enough, to justify a subscription. I was hoping that EQ2 would become their "pop in now and again" game. </p><p>But then I worked it out: of my accounts (nine in all, for complicated reasons, tho only one is active) not a single character is playable on Silver without paying for unlocks of both race and class. My brother has seven characters, none of which are playable without unlocking race and class - and of course character slot, if its not one that ended up in the four "free" slots. </p><p>He could, of course, delete a long-lapsed character and make one of the free race / class ones - and indeed might if not for the fact that he'd have to pay for character slots, race and class so he can log them in and clear their banks / bags / houses. Potentially he's looking at 1000SC for character slot, 750SC for race and 750SC for class - thats 25USD! - simply to delete the character so he can make a free one. He'd be better off paying a month's subscription - except he doesn't WANT to pay a month's subscription. If he did, he'd be playing already. </p><p>I'm a member of a small family guild, the only one left still playing. The guild has 118 characters on its roster and not a single one can be logged in without paying for unlocks. And thats irregarding the fact they'd be starkers if they DO log in, without paying for further unlocks. </p><p>You can say - and I'm sure someone will - that if people dont pay then they should get nothing. And thats right and proper - but it works both ways. Because they HAVE to pay, they won't - so SOE gets nothing too. I play LotRO as my "fancy a change /servers are down" game, maybe twice a month. Not worth having a subscription for and if I had to have one, I simply wouldnt play because I wouldnt pay. But I'll tell you something: when I do play, I spend. When I log in, I invariably cough up for a new outfit, or a wardrobe unlock, or some such. They don't get a great deal off me, but it's probably 10USD a month - and its 10USD they wouldnt get otherwise. </p><p>There's a whole lot of people who *used* to play EQ2. I bet a whole lot of them are reading about EQ2 going free to play and can't wait to dust off their characters for a bit. I also bet that once they see how much its going to cost, they'll not do it. </p><p>I would love love LOVE to see some of my old friends come back, even for just a couple of hours once a month, just long enough to have a bit of a laugh - and who knows they might stay longer! - but I really cant see how any ex-EQ2er would. I suppose they could just start a new account, new characters and play for free from the start - but really, if they wanted to do that you'd think they'd have done it a year ago when Freeport launched. </p><p>I was really happy when they announced we'd be going F2P cos I thought it might make things like they used to be, when the game was young and lots of people still played. I thought F2P would be a real kick in the pants for EQ2, would be just what was needed to bring life back to our servers. Now I really don't see how it can. </p>

Mermut
11-14-2011, 02:52 PM
<p>You can delete characters without logging them in. You just can't strip them before doing so.</p>

MystsofLedge12
11-14-2011, 02:52 PM
<p>I think the OP makes a valid point...... if we decide we don't wan't to pay our Sub Fees i don't feel the gear we have worked for should be stripped.  I know i worked my tush off getting faction with Ry'Gorr (i got my 40K+ before added quest lines) doing the dailies for a good while, then i worked my way through the progression to earn the Scintilating Gems and then the End Mob in Temple for a Breast Piece. Then worked through other zones improving that gear, it was earned and already paid for (from sub fees)</p><p>I do undestand not being able to acess the upper level zones on the Free Accounts but gear earned proir to merge should be kept in some form.</p><p>However as new zones get released the current armor and gear will be obsolete so its a temporary issue, so if player joe gets to AoD quits for 6 to 8 months his gear will likely be trivialized by then any how when he returns.</p>

agentsix
11-14-2011, 02:54 PM
<p><cite>Ansek wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>My brother has seven characters, none of which are playable without unlocking race and class - and of course character slot, if its not one that ended up in the four "free" slots. <p>He could, of course, delete a long-lapsed character and make one of the free race / class ones - and indeed might if not for the fact that he'd have to pay for character slots, race and class so he can log them in and clear their banks / bags / houses. Potentially he's looking at 1000SC for character slot, 750SC for race and 750SC for class - thats 25USD! - simply to delete the character so he can make a free one. He'd be better off paying a month's subscription - except he doesn't WANT to pay a month's subscription. If he did, he'd be playing already.</p></blockquote><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>19. Do I get anything in-game for playing EverQuest II?</strong></p> <p style="padding-left: 30px;">Yes! All current, returning and new players will receive a Welcome Pack for each character on their account. Players can use the /claim command in game to receive the Welcome Pack, which contains non-tradable items: - A Bag to store your goodies in - Experience Potions - Vitality Potions - And much, much more!</p><p>I hope the much, much more includes a month of free game time. It seems like the smart thing to do.</p><p>Advertise F2P, tell old players they can 'come back for a month.' This gives them time to look at the matrix and make adjustments before the restrictions hit.</p>

agentsix
11-14-2011, 02:56 PM
<p><cite>MystsofLedge12 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think the OP makes a valid point...... if we decide we don't wan't to pay our Sub Fees i don't feel the gear we have worked for should be stripped.  I know i worked my tush off getting faction with Ry'Gorr (i got my 40K+ before added quest lines) doing the dailies for a good while, then i worked my way through the progression to earn the Scintilating Gems and then the End Mob in Temple for a Breast Piece. Then worked through other zones improving that gear, it was earned and already paid for (from sub fees)</p></blockquote><p>And no matter what happens no one will take it from you. If you go down to Silver all that Legendary and Fabled stuff will be put in a safe bag so you can carry it around until you pay for a Gold sub.</p><p>I can't understand why you think you should get access to the full game if you don't pay for the full game. You're paying $15 a month or whatever now. Why should SoE provide the exact same access if you stop paying?</p>

GussJr
11-14-2011, 03:05 PM
<p><cite>Ansek wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>GussJr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have less issues with this than I do with the fact that if you don't have any characters that combine one of the 4 races and 8 classes available to silver accounts you won't be able to log in at all.</p></blockquote><p>Even though this won't effect me at all...it is an interesting point.</p></blockquote><p>This is the issue I have. I was really happy when they announced we'd finally be going F2P cos there are loads of people I'd like to see come back to the game, people like my husband and brother who, while they enjoyed the game, didn't enjoy it enough, or play enough, to justify a subscription. I was hoping that EQ2 would become their "pop in now and again" game. </p><p>But then I worked it out: of my accounts (nine in all, for complicated reasons, tho only one is active) not a single character is playable on Silver without paying for unlocks of both race and class. My brother has seven characters, none of which are playable without unlocking race and class - and of course character slot, if its not one that ended up in the four "free" slots. </p><p>He could, of course, delete a long-lapsed character and make one of the free race / class ones - and indeed might if not for the fact that he'd have to pay for character slots, race and class so he can log them in and clear their banks / bags / houses. Potentially he's looking at 1000SC for character slot, 750SC for race and 750SC for class - thats 25USD! - simply to delete the character so he can make a free one. He'd be better off paying a month's subscription - except he doesn't WANT to pay a month's subscription. If he did, he'd be playing already. </p><p>I'm a member of a small family guild, the only one left still playing. The guild has 118 characters on its roster and not a single one can be logged in without paying for unlocks. And thats irregarding the fact they'd be starkers if they DO log in, without paying for further unlocks. </p><p>You can say - and I'm sure someone will - that if people dont pay then they should get nothing. And thats right and proper - but it works both ways. Because they HAVE to pay, they won't - so SOE gets nothing too. I play LotRO as my "fancy a change /servers are down" game, maybe twice a month. Not worth having a subscription for and if I had to have one, I simply wouldnt play because I wouldnt pay. But I'll tell you something: when I do play, I spend. When I log in, I invariably cough up for a new outfit, or a wardrobe unlock, or some such. They don't get a great deal off me, but it's probably 10USD a month - and its 10USD they wouldnt get otherwise. </p><p>There's a whole lot of people who *used* to play EQ2. I bet a whole lot of them are reading about EQ2 going free to play and can't wait to dust off their characters for a bit. I also bet that once they see how much its going to cost, they'll not do it. </p><p>I would love love LOVE to see some of my old friends come back, even for just a couple of hours once a month, just long enough to have a bit of a laugh - and who knows they might stay longer! - but I really cant see how any ex-EQ2er would. I suppose they could just start a new account, new characters and play for free from the start - but really, if they wanted to do that you'd think they'd have done it a year ago when Freeport launched. </p><p>I was really happy when they announced we'd be going F2P cos I thought it might make things like they used to be, when the game was young and lots of people still played. I thought F2P would be a real kick in the pants for EQ2, would be just what was needed to bring life back to our servers. Now I really don't see how it can. </p></blockquote><p>My husband is in the same situation. 3 years of playing eq2, 7 toons, ect...then he got invited to beta test the new Star Wars MMO coming out in December, and after he found out that none of his eq2 toons would be able to be logged in due to the race/class dilemma...he's sworn off eq2 all together, and will be playing SW full time when it launches.</p><p>I do agree that use should be limited...and I have never been one to stomp my foot for something free...but for him not to be able to log in his main 90/300 with epic, master spells, harvester cloak, pack pony, ect. every once in a while because he won't have access to any of his stuff? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" /></p><p>If that's the way it has to be, then it is what it is, I still have my recurring sub and have preordered AoD...but it's a just little silly, imo.</p><p>A grandfather system would  be nice...if SOE could make it work somehow. Somehow allow old players to flag a single toon, no matter what race/class, and let them play that single toon...even if it was just through the SF expansison...its not much, but it would be <em>something. </em></p>

agentsix
11-14-2011, 03:41 PM
<p><cite>GussJr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My husband is in the same situation. 3 years of playing eq2, 7 toons, ect...then he got invited to beta test the new Star Wars MMO coming out in December, and after he found out that none of his eq2 toons would be able to be logged in due to the race/class dilemma...he's sworn off eq2 all together, and will be playing SW full time when it launches.</p></blockquote><p>Has he been paying his EQ2 sub during that time?</p><p>If he hasn't, then his situation doesn't get worse, it gets better.</p><p>If he has, then  his situation stays the same.</p><p>So why would he swear off EQ2?</p>

SOE-MOD-02
11-14-2011, 03:47 PM
<p>Let's keep the discussion on the Free to Play change in one place so that all the feedback can be seen.  </p><p><span style="color: #59666e; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: bold;"><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=509050">The Big News from the EQ Players Site</a></span></p>