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View Full Version : Is my math off? (cost of subscription)


agentsix
11-12-2011, 05:54 PM
<p>According to SoE the price of a year subscription right now is $120 (119.88 )</p><p>With the new F2P subscription levels I'll get 500 SC per month for that sub.</p><p>$5 x 12 = $60 worth of Station Cash</p><p>So my net cost for the game per year is $60.</p><p>That's $5 per month.</p><p>Is that right? Am I going to be able to play EQ2 with a full sub for $5 per month net (including the SC value)</p>

Deveryn
11-12-2011, 06:21 PM
<p>Your math is correct and that's a great way of looking at it.</p><p>If you can't do a renewal right away, you have plenty of SC to unlock stuff with.</p>

Gorpier
11-12-2011, 06:23 PM
<p>Thats the way I understood it.  Looking at it from that point of view, when you consider the 500sc a month and figure in 8 months your copy of AoD is free...</p>

Banedon_Toran
11-12-2011, 06:54 PM
<p>Obviously the cost isn't quite the same for Sony as the SC doesn't cost them anything to provide.</p><p>But it looks like a great deal, now to work out how I can scrape together the cash for a years sub.</p>

noogabooga
11-12-2011, 07:08 PM
<p>is it really 500sc PER month? thought it was just once when you purchase the subscription</p>

Deveryn
11-12-2011, 07:17 PM
<p><cite>noogabooga wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>is it really 500sc PER month? thought it was just once when you purchase the subscription</p></blockquote><p>SJ answered it <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=509183�" target="_blank">here</a></p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Recurring</span></strong> subs get 500sc per month.</p>

agentsix
11-12-2011, 07:22 PM
<p><cite>Banedon_Toran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Obviously the cost isn't quite the same for Sony as the SC doesn't cost them anything to provide.</p></blockquote><p>Granted. And I know in reality I'm paying $120 per year no matter how I do the arithmetic.</p><p>But since I'm given $60 in SC over the course of the year, and I would have spent that anyway, its seems that a Gold subscription, in U.S. dollars, when purchased for 12 months at once, works out to be about $5 per month.</p><p>What a value!</p>

arvydys
11-12-2011, 07:38 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Banedon_Toran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Obviously the cost isn't quite the same for Sony as the SC doesn't cost them anything to provide.</p></blockquote><p>Granted. And I know in reality I'm paying $120 per year no matter how I do the arithmetic.</p><p>But since I'm given $60 in SC over the course of the year, and I would have spent that anyway, its seems that a Gold subscription, in U.S. dollars, when purchased for 12 months at once, works out to be about $5 per month.</p><p>What a value!</p></blockquote><p>I actually started a thread about this without seeing this one first.  I think its an incredible value.</p><p>Only applies to the recurring credit/debit subs, but Im thinking most use those anyway for the multi month discounts.</p><p>If you hold on to that SC (and they release an expansion next year which who knows if they do with DoV part 2 on the way) you use that SC for the expansion and you just saved 40 bucks</p>

Aliscious
11-12-2011, 08:02 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>According to SoE the price of a year subscription right now is $120 (119.88 )</p><p>With the new F2P subscription levels I'll get 500 SC per month for that sub.</p><p>$5 x 12 = $60 worth of Station Cash</p><p>So my net cost for the game per year is $60.</p><p>That's $5 per month.</p><p>Is that right? Am I going to be able to play EQ2 with a full sub for $5 per month net (including the SC value)</p></blockquote><p>Can I ask where you are getting the $120 figure?</p><p>What I see today is $143.99 for 12 months today (<a href="http://everquest2.com/gameinfo/faq#3info">http://everquest2.com/gameinfo/faq#3info</a>), and $179.88 for 12 months once the FTP conversion goes into effect (<a href="http://everquest2.com/free_to_play/game_overview">http://everquest2.com/free_to_play/game_overview</a>). The way the FAQ reads, it would appear that SC cannot be used to pay for your recurring membership, only for non-recurring.</p>

arvydys
11-12-2011, 08:14 PM
<p><cite>Aliscious wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Can I ask where you are getting the $120 figure?</p><p>What I see today is $143.99 for 12 months today (<a href="http://everquest2.com/gameinfo/faq#3info">http://everquest2.com/gameinfo/faq#3info</a>), and $179.88 for 12 months once the FTP conversion goes into effect (<a href="http://everquest2.com/free_to_play/game_overview">http://everquest2.com/free_to_play/game_overview</a>). The way the FAQ reads, it would appear that SC cannot be used to pay for your recurring membership, only for non-recurring.</p></blockquote><p>the link you posted is 'as of 2007'.  Its now 120 for a 12 month sub (at least thats the option i have if I move to 12 months)</p><p>Also, the matrix for f2p only lists the 1 month recurring.  Thats the highest possible price.  the discounts still apply to the higher subs, they just arent listed.  Might want to pass that long so they can add em to the faq.</p>

Maisland
11-13-2011, 02:24 PM
<p>Something I am wondering which I think is related to your post...</p><p>Let's say I have a recurring subscription with the bonus of 500 SC each month.</p><p>Will I be able to use SC to purchase additional time on the marketplace so I can extend my subscription to more than a year in advance and then just use SC to continue adding time so that the recurring subscription is never actually due?</p><p>Edit:  Basically, would simply having a recurring subscription flag the account for the bonus SC or would buying additional time with SC cancel out that benefit?</p>

wullailhuit
11-13-2011, 02:44 PM
<p>I reckon , the 500 SC per month will take the place of the veteran rewards</p>

Maisland
11-13-2011, 03:27 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I reckon , the 500 SC per month will take the place of the veteran rewards</p></blockquote><p>I doubt it.  They just came out with an 8 year veteran reward...  and even those with non-recurring subscriptions will get those.  I would even expect that at least the silver accounts would as well.</p>

Golbezz
11-13-2011, 06:20 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Granted. And I know in reality I'm paying $120 per year no matter how I do the arithmetic.</p><p>But since I'm given $60 in SC over the course of the year, and I would have spent that anyway, its seems that a Gold subscription, in U.S. dollars, when purchased for 12 months at once, works out to be about $5 per month.</p><p>What a value!</p></blockquote><p>I suspect it's to get players used to spending more SC for the day power items end up back on the marketplace. At that point I won't care though because I will no longer be playing if the game does eventually go from F2P to a true "pay-to-win" game.</p><p>Until the game goes that path it is a pretty good value, but I think in time players will see the true intent of the good value. I hope most will have the sense to not vote for the game becoming "pay-to-win" if those in-game votes ever show up for possibly returning the power items to the marketplace because it will most certainly cost players more than the free SC each month in "pay-to-win" items if they want to be successful.</p>

Deveryn
11-13-2011, 06:33 PM
<p><cite>Golbezz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Granted. And I know in reality I'm paying $120 per year no matter how I do the arithmetic.</p><p>But since I'm given $60 in SC over the course of the year, and I would have spent that anyway, its seems that a Gold subscription, in U.S. dollars, when purchased for 12 months at once, works out to be about $5 per month.</p><p>What a value!</p></blockquote><p>I suspect it's to get players used to spending more SC for the day power items end up back on the marketplace. At that point I won't care though because I will no longer be playing if the game does eventually go from F2P to a true "pay-to-win" game.</p><p>Until the game goes that path it is a pretty good value, but I think in time players will see the true intent of the good value. I hope most will have the sense to not vote for the game becoming "pay-to-win" if those in-game votes ever show up for possibly returning the power items to the marketplace because it will most certainly cost players more than the free SC each month in "pay-to-win" items if they want to be successful.</p></blockquote><p>The game has been 'pay to win' from day one. You don't pay, you can't play, so you don't win. Let's not forget all the loot rights we buy. That's pay to win too.</p>

Golbezz
11-13-2011, 09:45 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The game has been 'pay to win' from day one. You don't pay, you can't play, so you don't win. Let's not forget all the loot rights we buy. That's pay to win too.</p></blockquote><p>That is a really weak argument saying "pay-to-play" = "pay-to-win".</p><p>You clearly don't understand the concepts of true "pay-to-win" as top tier raid guilds aren't going to need to buy loot rights when they get the gear by raiding. So I'm sorry you have to buy loot rights to get your gear while others raid to get our own. I don't think players should be able to buy raid gear or high end instance gear from others but currently there is no way to stop this without hurting raiders that are sitting out for fights that require certain raid setups.</p><p>Since you can't seem to grasp what damage true "pay-to-win" can do to a game let me explain: Pay-to-win becomes a serious problem when players in any form start needing to buy items from the marketplace in order to be competitive at the solo/group/raid level. If raid guild A is WW#1 guild and raid guild B is WW#2 and starts buying all these marketplace items to catch up and eventually pass raid guild A it now forces raid guild A to do the same to try to get the #1 spot back. Many players simply do not want this as the game becomes more about who can spend the most money to be on top. It doesn't just have to be raiding but that is an easier example to use.</p><p>This can end up changing grouping as well when power items become required to compete. Lets say you play a wizzy and have some raid gear. You spam level chat saying "90 wizzy LFG" only to see another wizzy spam right after you "better 90 wizzy with [insert OP marketplace item here] LFG". Now do you understand why many players don't care to have additional spending of RL currency added into the game?</p>

agentsix
11-13-2011, 10:44 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Something I am wondering which I think is related to your post...</p><p>Let's say I have a recurring subscription with the bonus of 500 SC each month.</p><p>Will I be able to use SC to purchase additional time on the marketplace so I can extend my subscription to more than a year in advance and then just use SC to continue adding time so that the recurring subscription is never actually due?</p><p>Edit:  Basically, would simply having a recurring subscription flag the account for the bonus SC or would buying additional time with SC cancel out that benefit?</p></blockquote><p>I think one strategy could be:</p><p>You get a recurring sub for 12 months. Each month you get 500 SC. You don't spend this SC.</p><p>At the end of those 12 months you have 6000 SC.</p><p>On month 13 you cancel your recurring sub. You then start paying for a monthly Gold sub with 1500 SC.</p><p>You do that for 4 months.</p><p>When your SC is gone you sign up for a recurring sub again. And repeat.</p><p>In that way, after 12 months of recurring sub you get 4 months 'free' by using your rebate SC to pay for it.</p><p>Another strategy might be to save the SC and buy the next expansion. That means by doing the recurring sub you get the next expansion by buying it after it comes out with SC (you can't preorder it with SC)</p>

Deveryn
11-13-2011, 10:58 PM
<p><cite>Golbezz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The game has been 'pay to win' from day one. You don't pay, you can't play, so you don't win. Let's not forget all the loot rights we buy. That's pay to win too.</p></blockquote><p>That is a really weak argument saying "pay-to-play" = "pay-to-win".</p><p>You clearly don't understand the concepts of true "pay-to-win" as top tier raid guilds aren't going to need to buy loot rights when they get the gear by raiding. So I'm sorry you have to buy loot rights to get your gear while others raid to get our own. I don't think players should be able to buy raid gear or high end instance gear from others but currently there is no way to stop this without hurting raiders that are sitting out for fights that require certain raid setups.</p><p>Since you can't seem to grasp what damage true "pay-to-win" can do to a game let me explain: Pay-to-win becomes a serious problem when players in any form start needing to buy items from the marketplace in order to be competitive at the solo/group/raid level. If raid guild A is WW#1 guild and raid guild B is WW#2 and starts buying all these marketplace items to catch up and eventually pass raid guild A it now forces raid guild A to do the same to try to get the #1 spot back. Many players simply do not want this as the game becomes more about who can spend the most money to be on top. It doesn't just have to be raiding but that is an easier example to use.</p><p>This can end up changing grouping as well when power items become required to compete. Lets say you play a wizzy and have some raid gear. You spam level chat saying "90 wizzy LFG" only to see another wizzy spam right after you "better 90 wizzy with [insert OP marketplace item here] LFG". Now do you understand why many players don't care to have additional spending of RL currency added into the game?</p></blockquote><p>I was just showing you how ridiculous that argument sounds. We've had SC for a couple of years now. They have yet to offer anything so unbalancing over SC and I just don't see them doing it anywhere down the line. If you don't want to spend additional money on the game, you don't have to, especially if you're a subscriber. Their end goal is to get people to subscriber level. You're really worrying too much about absolutely nothing.</p>

Golbezz
11-13-2011, 11:43 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was just showing you how ridiculous that argument sounds. We've had SC for a couple of years now. They have yet to offer anything so unbalancing over SC and I just don't see them doing it anywhere down the line. If you don't want to spend additional money on the game, you don't have to, especially if you're a subscriber. Their end goal is to get people to subscriber level. You're really worrying too much about absolutely nothing.</p></blockquote><p>Did you fail to notice the power items being removed from marketplace in SJ's producer's letter? Do you think they would have been removed if the majority of players wanted these items?</p>

MystsofLedge12
11-14-2011, 12:35 AM
<p>So will us real subscribers who will get forced into gold get the SC paid back to us for the SC we haven't been getting for the last how ever long its been?</p>

Deveryn
11-14-2011, 12:53 AM
<p><cite>Golbezz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Did you fail to notice the power items being removed from marketplace in SJ's producer's letter? Do you think they would have been removed if the majority of players wanted these items?</p></blockquote><p>I didn't fail to notice anything. You failed to do your research, though. Let me help. This is from a post on the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2x/posts/list.m?topic_id=41" target="_blank">EQ2X forums</a>.</p><p><span ><li><strong>Rune of Devatation (150 SC Each)</strong><ul><li>Charges: 3</li><li>Casting: 1.0 seconds</li><li>Duration 20 seconds</li><li>Recast: 10 minutes</li><li>Slot: Charm (Optional)</li><li>Effects<ul><li>Increases the potency of all abilities by 25%</li><li>Will absorb all attacks from NPC enemies that are NOT heroic or epic</li><li>On any combat or spell hit this spell will inflict 5% of max health in heat damage<ul><li>Does not affect Heroic of Epic targets</li></ul></li><li>(Does not Crit/Cannot be modified)</li></ul></li></ul><span ><li><strong>Wand of Obliteration (150 SC Each)</strong><ul><li>Charges: 3</li><li>Casting: 1.0 seconds</li><li>Duration: 1.0 seconds</li><li>Recast: 5 minutes</li><li>Slot: Charm (Optional)</li><li>Effects: <ul><li>Instantly kills the target</li><li>Not a player or Player's Pet and Not Heroic or Epic Targets</li><li>(Cannot be modified)</li></ul></li></ul>As you can see, there's not much winning going on with these items. In your argument, you refer to raiding and winning at that by paying out extra money. There is not a single item in the list that will create a significant advantage in that situation. At best, a person can dump a ton of money into the game to catch up a little. They still have to know what they're doing and find others that know what they're doing to win.</li></span></li></span></p>

Golbezz
11-14-2011, 03:55 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I didn't fail to notice anything. You failed to do your research, though. Let me help. This is from a post on the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2x/posts/list.m?topic_id=41" target="_blank">EQ2X forums</a>.</p><p><span></span></p><p>As you can see, there's not much winning going on with these items. In your argument, you refer to raiding and winning at that by paying out extra money. There is not a single item in the list that will create a significant advantage in that situation. At best, a person can dump a ton of money into the game to catch up a little. They still have to know what they're doing and find others that know what they're doing to win.</p></blockquote><p>I am well aware of those items from another thread (I want to say rijaki posted the screenshots of the SC items in the thread), there is really nothing you are showing that I haven't already seen.</p><p>If players aren't buying enough of those items now how long do you think it will take for them to offer more powerful items until players start buying them to gain an advantage? Once this happens how long before others need to buy them just to keep up? Why do you think most players on the live servers are against the "pay-to-win" concept? Are you really so (edited) that you don't see this? Are you 1 of those players who needs to buy "pay-to-win" items to make up for what you lack in other areas?</p>

The_Cheeseman
11-14-2011, 04:18 AM
<p>You're falling prey to the fallacy of slippery slope, here. SOE has stated on numerous occasions that they understand full-well how damaging such "pay-to-win" items can be to the game, and that they are well-aware that the majority of their subscribers would not like to see such items added to the game. SOE may make mistakes from time to time, but they aren't so stupid as to jeopardize a stable, mature MMO product just for the sake of a "possible" new revenue stream. There have never been any "pay-to-win" items for sale in any version of EQ2 that would have any noticeable effect on game balance.</p><p>Sure, EQ2X folks can buy sub-standard armor, rares for mastercrafted that nobody seriously uses anymore, and items that can one-shot trivial MOBs. Even those totally pointless items are being removed and the entire EQ2 playerbase polled about their possible return. Personally, I don't care either way, because I don't see EQ2 as a competitive game, and could care less if somebody else purchased a marketplace item or two to help them get a leg-up. Whatever they need to suck less, more power to them. As long as they pull their weight when they are grouped with me, I don't care how they do it.</p><p>SOE has not shown any indication that they have plans to change EQ2 into some sort of "pay-to-win" cash-shop bonanza. They have, in fact, demonstrated quite the opposite desire on numerous occasions. I see no potential motivation for them to do so, and therefore have no reason to doubt their honesty in this matter. Perhaps your conspiratorial cynicism is misplaced?</p>

Valonia
11-14-2011, 07:30 AM
<p><cite>Aliscious wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>According to SoE the price of a year subscription right now is $120 (119.88 )</p><p>With the new F2P subscription levels I'll get 500 SC per month for that sub.</p><p>$5 x 12 = $60 worth of Station Cash</p><p>So my net cost for the game per year is $60.</p><p>That's $5 per month.</p><p>Is that right? Am I going to be able to play EQ2 with a full sub for $5 per month net (including the SC value)</p></blockquote><p>Can I ask where you are getting the $120 figure?</p><p>What I see today is $143.99 for 12 months today (<a href="http://everquest2.com/gameinfo/faq#3info">http://everquest2.com/gameinfo/faq#3info</a>), and $179.88 for 12 months once the FTP conversion goes into effect (<a href="http://everquest2.com/free_to_play/game_overview">http://everquest2.com/free_to_play/game_overview</a>). The way the FAQ reads, it would appear that SC cannot be used to pay for your recurring membership, only for non-recurring.</p></blockquote><p>I might be wrong, but my guess is that the current discounts are continued when it comes to the gold plans. Otherwise we'd have the strange situation where the 'All Access' one year pass would cost exactly as much as paying for a single game .. Of course this only applies if the new FTP Everquest2 is included in the pass, but given how they handled EQX and also DCU I doubt they'll not do that. (The 120$ figure is still off though <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</p>

Deveryn
11-14-2011, 02:59 PM
<p><cite>Golbezz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I didn't fail to notice anything. You failed to do your research, though. Let me help. This is from a post on the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2x/posts/list.m?topic_id=41" target="_blank">EQ2X forums</a>.</p><p><span></span></p><p>As you can see, there's not much winning going on with these items. In your argument, you refer to raiding and winning at that by paying out extra money. There is not a single item in the list that will create a significant advantage in that situation. At best, a person can dump a ton of money into the game to catch up a little. They still have to know what they're doing and find others that know what they're doing to win.</p></blockquote><p>I am well aware of those items from another thread (I want to say rijaki posted the screenshots of the SC items in the thread), there is really nothing you are showing that I haven't already seen.</p><p>If players aren't buying enough of those items now how long do you think it will take for them to offer more powerful items until players start buying them to gain an advantage? Once this happens how long before others need to buy them just to keep up? Why do you think most players on the live servers are against the "pay-to-win" concept? Are you really so clueless that you don't see this? Are you 1 of those players who needs to buy "pay-to-win" items to make up for what you lack in other areas?</p></blockquote><p>I have trouble believing you're "well aware" of those items and their effects on play. Then again, I've met a lot of people with the facts staring them right in the face and they refuse to see what's there. Pay-to-win is all in your stubborn, paranoid heads.</p><p>I've gotten along just fine without paying an extra money, thanks for asking. I'm on a live server, so I couldn't buy any advantages to begin with. All I really lack is patience for foolishness.</p>

Golbezz
11-14-2011, 05:12 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have trouble believing you're "well aware" of those items and their effects on play. Then again, I've met a lot of people with the facts staring them right in the face and they refuse to see what's there. Pay-to-win is all in your stubborn, paranoid heads.</p><p>I've gotten along just fine without paying an extra money, thanks for asking. I'm on a live server, so I couldn't buy any advantages to begin with. All I really lack is patience for foolishness.</p></blockquote><p>You can believe what you want, it does not make it true. The issue was not as much about power items that exist now but more about existing items + future even more powerful game changing items and the result on gameplay. I simply do not want to see this game go down that path, and many players clearly do not want these items around either knowing exactly what will happen if they remain.</p><p>Currently you can buy advantages on live servers by buying plat and then using it to buy loot rights (many players who do this buy/sell in transactions involving SC cards). This can be game damaging more to the casual group I guess but as a raider other players buying loot rights doesn't really change my gameplay much.</p><p>I suspect based on your comments that you fit into this group that needs to buy loot that you are unable to gain on your own ("loot rights that we buy"). Denying you can buy advantages on live servers makes me wonder (edited)</p>

SOE-MOD-07
11-14-2011, 05:31 PM
This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=502816&post_id=5658373" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50281...post_id=5658373</a> Personal attacks are not allowed

urgthock
11-14-2011, 05:33 PM
<p><cite>MystsofLedge12 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So will us real subscribers who will <strong>get forced into gold</strong> get the SC paid back to us for the SC we haven't been getting for the last how ever long its been?</p></blockquote><p>Wierd choice of words there. If you are currently a subscriber, you already ARE "gold". It's just not called that currently. I don't understand your mentality there.</p><p>Current subscription = Upcoming Gold subscription. There is absolutely no difference. Unless you count being given 500SC per month free of charge a difference*.</p><p>*For recurring subscriptions only</p>

Deveryn
11-14-2011, 05:41 PM
<p><cite>Golbezz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have trouble believing you're "well aware" of those items and their effects on play. Then again, I've met a lot of people with the facts staring them right in the face and they refuse to see what's there. Pay-to-win is all in your stubborn, paranoid heads.</p><p>I've gotten along just fine without paying an extra money, thanks for asking. I'm on a live server, so I couldn't buy any advantages to begin with. All I really lack is patience for foolishness.</p></blockquote><p><strong><span style="font-size: xx-large;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">You can believe what you want, it does not make it true.</span></span> </strong>The issue was not as much about power items that exist now but more about existing items + future even more powerful game changing items and the result on gameplay. I simply do not want to see this game go down that path, and many players clearly do not want these items around either knowing exactly what will happen if they remain.</p><p>Currently you can buy advantages on live servers by buying plat and then using it to buy loot rights (many players who do this buy/sell in transactions involving SC cards). This can be game damaging more to the casual group I guess but as a raider other players buying loot rights doesn't really change my gameplay much.</p><p>I suspect based on your comments that you fit into this group that needs to buy loot that you are unable to gain on your own ("loot rights that we buy"). Denying you can buy advantages on live servers makes me wonder if you are also a plat buyer to cover loot right purchases... hmm...</p></blockquote><p>Read that bold part back to yourself a few times. It'll save me having to repeat myself, as it relates to the F2P system and my spending habits. You know nothing about me and my playstyle. What you could learn might surprise you.</p><p>What you're talking about with plat being traded for SC is a <em><strong>whole other issue,</strong></em> which has nothing to do with the additional access being granted to live servers. It's unfortunate that people do that, but at least SOE has it where they still get something out of it. There's no way to really control that. People will find some way to make whatever deal they want.</p>

Golbezz
11-14-2011, 07:53 PM
<p><cite>Nynaeve wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Based on your comments I suspect that you fit into the group that sells loot rights, which makes you a hypocrite and MORE damaging to this game than SOE ever could do themselves.</p></blockquote><p>Sounds like you are just jealous you can't get the gear on your own or can't afford to buy it.</p><p>I don't support loot rights because I think players should earn their own gear. I've sold loot in past expansions when it used to all be no-trade (it wasted too much time logging in alts to loot) but these days I'd rather keep the heirloom gear for my alts rather than selling since I really have no use for the plat I already have other than master spells for my army of L90 alts.</p>

SOE-MOD-07
11-14-2011, 08:23 PM
<p>Let's please post without attacking other players, which includes making accusations and insinuations.  Thanks!</p>

SOE-MOD-04
11-14-2011, 08:57 PM
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SOE-MOD-08
11-14-2011, 09:32 PM
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Nynaeve
11-14-2011, 09:52 PM
<p>that's what I meant <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

SmokeJumper
11-15-2011, 12:27 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I reckon , the 500 SC per month will take the place of the veteran rewards</p></blockquote><p>You'd reckon wrong, pard. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

SmokeJumper
11-15-2011, 12:33 AM
<p><cite>Golbezz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was just showing you how ridiculous that argument sounds. We've had SC for a couple of years now. They have yet to offer anything so unbalancing over SC and I just don't see them doing it anywhere down the line. If you don't want to spend additional money on the game, you don't have to, especially if you're a subscriber. Their end goal is to get people to subscriber level. You're really worrying too much about absolutely nothing.</p></blockquote><p>Did you fail to notice the power items being removed from marketplace in SJ's producer's letter? Do you think they would have been removed if the majority of players wanted these items?</p></blockquote><p>Actually, we don't have any idea whether it was the majority or the minority. However, removing them currently was clearly the smart choice until we know more. We do know those items sold really well on EQ2X, but that's why we're going to wait and post the questions about these items with in-game polls later on. We'll poll the whole playerbase and let the voice of the people decide whether they show up or not...and probably in what form. (And we're really serious about that.)</p><p>You guys are going to be in the driver's seat on a lot of stuff in the future. SOE as a whole is shifting in that direction and we're going to embrace it with the EQ franchise.</p>

SmokeJumper
11-15-2011, 12:37 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Golbezz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Did you fail to notice the power items being removed from marketplace in SJ's producer's letter? Do you think they would have been removed if the majority of players wanted these items?</p></blockquote><p>I didn't fail to notice anything. You failed to do your research, though. Let me help. This is from a post on the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2x/posts/list.m?topic_id=41" target="_blank">EQ2X forums</a>.</p><li><strong>Rune of Devatation (150 SC Each)</strong><ul><li>Charges: 3</li><li>Casting: 1.0 seconds</li><li>Duration 20 seconds</li><li>Recast: 10 minutes</li><li>Slot: Charm (Optional)</li><li>Effects<ul><li>Increases the potency of all abilities by 25%</li><li>Will absorb all attacks from NPC enemies that are NOT heroic or epic</li><li>On any combat or spell hit this spell will inflict 5% of max health in heat damage<ul><li>Does not affect Heroic of Epic targets</li></ul></li><li>(Does not Crit/Cannot be modified)</li></ul></li></ul></li><li><strong>Wand of Obliteration (150 SC Each)</strong><ul><li>Charges: 3</li><li>Casting: 1.0 seconds</li><li>Duration: 1.0 seconds</li><li>Recast: 5 minutes</li><li>Slot: Charm (Optional)</li><li>Effects: <ul><li>Instantly kills the target</li><li>Not a player or Player's Pet and Not Heroic or Epic Targets</li><li>(Cannot be modified)</li></ul></li></ul>As you can see, there's not much winning going on with these items. In your argument, you refer to raiding and winning at that by paying out extra money. There is not a single item in the list that will create a significant advantage in that situation. At best, a person can dump a ton of money into the game to catch up a little. They still have to know what they're doing and find others that know what they're doing to win.</li></blockquote><p>By the way, these were the absolute worst-selling items of any that we removed. Barely anyone used them, even though they're handy at times (and extremely cheap to use).</p><p>The stuff that sold better was mastercrafted equipment (only in the 10-40 level range) and tradeskill rare components in the 70-90 level range (for obvious reasons). But even still, less than 10% of the players actually bought any of these things at all, so overall, they had very little effect on the game or on the tradeskill commodity market (broker).</p><p>However, I could post this info a million times and there are those that would still not want anything to do with them, so that's why we're removing them during this conversion.</p><p>(Personally, I'll miss the self-rez scrolls I used there. I'm one of those types of players that solos as if it was a contest of how much you can pull and survive. It was fun being able to stand up again after I was wrong. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Anestacia
11-15-2011, 02:10 AM
<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>(Personally, I'll miss the self-rez scrolls I used there. I'm one of those types of players that solos as if it was a contest of how much you can pull and survive. It was fun being able to stand up again after I was wrong. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Be very careful what you do with this particular item.  If you allow it to be sold in the marketplace then you will not have anything to back up why the self rez portion of the veteran reward was taken away from us.  It's "too overpowering" of which I disagree; especially once a day but I guess that is another topic. /shrug</p>

SmokeJumper
11-15-2011, 02:50 AM
<p><cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>(Personally, I'll miss the self-rez scrolls I used there. I'm one of those types of players that solos as if it was a contest of how much you can pull and survive. It was fun being able to stand up again after I was wrong. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Be very careful what you do with this particular item.  If you allow it to be sold in the marketplace then you will not have anything to back up why the self rez portion of the veteran reward was taken away from us.  It's "too overpowering" of which I disagree; especially once a day but I guess that is another topic. /shrug</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, well, it was definitely affecting raiding on EQ2X. So it would have affected raiding on the other servers also. *If* we sold it on the marketplace some day, it would have to have raid protection built into it somehow.</p>

Laretha
11-15-2011, 03:33 AM
<p>To say station cash has no affect on Subscription play is totally niave.  </p><p>I would prefer it was not around I would prefer that the game could stand on its own without the focus of a good portion of the SoE EQ2 team on SC.</p><p>Problem is Executive producer after excutive  producer have continued on the SOE tradition of not really listening to its player base.</p><p>All SJ is doing is trying to get a new player base that will accept this model as its more profitable for them.  They would not do it otherwise !</p><p>They could do so much with this game if they just used their Imaginations but for many reasons they don't. A lot about EQ1 & 2 was that is was the forfront of  MMO's that everyone used as a benchmark.  Now we are more like a benchseat. </p><p>One simple and fun concept would be like having a raid zone that was totally based on air combat.  Where you could cast while mounted.  Think of the challenge that could bring! Plain of air in air!!!!.  </p><p>Whle every other zone has the normal mounted limitations.   It would change the play of so many classes and bring a unique play to the game. </p><p>There are so many great ideas that just get missed its easyer to reporduce the same old same old. (the way they cookie cutter itemization) They where so resistant to flying mouts and had to be coerced into doing it.   Hows that worked for them.  SC and flying mounts I bet are one of their best money spinners.</p><p>But no they will either save that for EQnext or deem it to hard.   Its more simple to repeat the same model and try and sell SC than it is to be creative.</p><p>paying $40 for this mix and match update is a conern and yes SJ you know this is something you have to spin as there is no substance to it at all. </p><p>I do not want to play another  WoW or pay through the nose for this either.  </p><p>I have never had an issue with paying for an expansion that I felt was worth it but this one just sticks in the throat and does not swallow well!!!!!</p>

Golbezz
11-15-2011, 04:22 AM
<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah, well, it was definitely affecting raiding on EQ2X. So it would have affected raiding on the other servers also. *If* we sold it on the marketplace some day, it would have to have raid protection built into it somehow.</p></blockquote><p>Wait, was it making dirges even more lazy about rezzing?</p><p>Seriously though as a raider this is a good example of what I want to avoid. For example a large power regen item could make fights with a high power drain trivial as well.</p>

Maisland
11-15-2011, 04:45 PM
<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I reckon , the 500 SC per month will take the place of the veteran rewards</p></blockquote><p>You'd reckon wrong, pard. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>SmokeJumper... as long as you are in this thread, can you answer my question?  Will I be able to buy additional game time with SC while maintaining a recurring sub and still get the 500 bonus SC each month?  Or would buying time with SC negate the benefit of having a recurring subscription?</p>

Pixiewrath
11-15-2011, 09:32 PM
<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Golbezz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was just showing you how ridiculous that argument sounds. We've had SC for a couple of years now. They have yet to offer anything so unbalancing over SC and I just don't see them doing it anywhere down the line. If you don't want to spend additional money on the game, you don't have to, especially if you're a subscriber. Their end goal is to get people to subscriber level. You're really worrying too much about absolutely nothing.</p></blockquote><p>Did you fail to notice the power items being removed from marketplace in SJ's producer's letter? Do you think they would have been removed if the majority of players wanted these items?</p></blockquote><p>Actually, we don't have any idea whether it was the majority or the minority. However, removing them currently was clearly the smart choice until we know more. We do know those items sold really well on EQ2X, but that's why we're going to wait and post the questions about these items with in-game polls later on. We'll poll the whole playerbase and let the voice of the people decide whether they show up or not...and probably in what form. (And we're really serious about that.)</p><p>You guys are going to be in the driver's seat on a lot of stuff in the future. SOE as a whole is shifting in that direction and we're going to embrace it with the EQ franchise.</p></blockquote><p>Here is my vote/opinion/poll for the future.If the avatars used in the dungeon maker are compatible of flying (having flyin animations), let us create our own Aether Racing dungeons with time high score boards. Would be fun to design your own racing tracks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I am still curious as to how the dungeon maker mechanic works. If we can design the rooms themselves or if we can only choose from pre-made dungeons and insert mobs/furniture/wall textures...</p>

piro
11-15-2011, 09:42 PM
<p>Holly crap that would be awesome lol .... really looking forward to doing te dyod stuff</p>

SmokeJumper
11-15-2011, 11:45 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I reckon , the 500 SC per month will take the place of the veteran rewards</p></blockquote><p>You'd reckon wrong, pard. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>SmokeJumper... as long as you are in this thread, can you answer my question?  Will I be able to buy additional game time with SC while maintaining a recurring sub and still get the 500 bonus SC each month?  Or would buying time with SC negate the benefit of having a recurring subscription?</p></blockquote><p>You can only buy non-recurring memberships with station cash.</p><p>Recurring memberships are credit card only...and those are the memberships that grant 500SC per month.</p><p>So no, unfortunately, you can't get the 500SC grant if you buy a membership with SC.</p>

ranlaen
11-16-2011, 01:25 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>According to SoE the price of a year subscription right now is $120 (119.88 )</p><p>With the new F2P subscription levels I'll get 500 SC per month for that sub.</p><p>$5 x 12 = $60 worth of Station Cash</p><p>So my net cost for the game per year is $60.</p><p>That's $5 per month.</p><p>Is that right? Am I going to be able to play EQ2 with a full sub for $5 per month net (including the SC value)</p></blockquote><p>well from a player view who uses sc then yes it is $5.however from soe view it cost nothing to make sc its a virtual currency with no regulation and just a code.</p><p>if you are not into buying stuff with sc  then it does not matter neither.</p>

druid76
11-16-2011, 02:53 PM
<p>So you pay $120 and have the game for 1 year, and you get 6000 SC.</p><p>The next 4 month you use the SC.</p><p>The cycle continues.....</p><p>You spend $120 for 16 months, so the game costs you $7.50 a month not $5 but it's still a discount.</p><p>Lets say you pay the $15 a month, after 3 months you have 1500SC, so the next month is Free.</p><p>So for 4 months you pay $45, or $11.25 a month</p><p>I know in my case it will cost the full price cause with my wife I wouldn't see any SC at all....</p>

Nrgy
11-16-2011, 03:34 PM
<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>You can only buy non-recurring memberships with station cash.<p>Recurring memberships are credit card only...and those are the memberships that grant 500SC per month.</p><p>So no, unfortunately, you can't get the 500SC grant if you buy a membership with SC.</p></blockquote><p>SJ, I'm sorry to say ... I don't think you have throughly though about every combination of what is possible under the current or to my understanding of the future billing system mechanics, but what do I know, I only write billing software for a living.</p><p>Was it said whether or not we'll be able to "Gift" game time to "our" other accounts or not?</p>

Maisland
11-16-2011, 04:57 PM
<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SmokeJumper... as long as you are in this thread, can you answer my question?  Will I be able to buy additional game time with SC while maintaining a recurring sub and still get the 500 bonus SC each month?  Or would buying time with SC negate the benefit of having a recurring subscription?</p></blockquote><p>You can only buy non-recurring memberships with station cash.</p><p>Recurring memberships are credit card only...and those are the memberships that grant 500SC per month.</p><p>So no, unfortunately, you can't get the 500SC grant if you buy a membership with SC.</p></blockquote><p>OK, this leads me to another question...</p><p>If I have a recurring subscription and build up enough SC from the bonus, could I buy additional game time with that and then have the bonus SC kick in again when that time is used up and it goes back to the recurring subscription?</p><p>i.e.  I do not cancel my recurring subscription, I just buy extra time with the SC that I have and when that is used up, it goes back to the recurring subscription.  Or would I have to cancel my recurring subscription in order to buy the time with SC?</p>

Kinya
11-17-2011, 05:05 AM
<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SmokeJumper... as long as you are in this thread, can you answer my question?  Will I be able to buy additional game time with SC while maintaining a recurring sub and still get the 500 bonus SC each month?  Or would buying time with SC negate the benefit of having a recurring subscription?</p></blockquote><p>You can only buy non-recurring memberships with station cash.</p><p>Recurring memberships are credit card only...and those are the memberships that grant 500SC per month.</p><p>So no, unfortunately, you can't get the 500SC grant if you buy a membership with SC.</p></blockquote><p>SJ, could you be so kind and answer one more question please concerning recurring membership. I really would like to make sure, as I've been asked a lot about it. What about pre-paid cards?</p><p>There is a big problem in my country to pay subscribtion via credit cards (banks in Poland reject 0$ question sent from USA - it is against polish banking law) and most of my friends including me, we pay by using pre-paid cards. Is it recrurring membership? We pay this way since very long time... So will we get 500SC per month or not?</p>

Besual
11-17-2011, 05:52 AM
<p>The removal of the few items from the marketplace is just an alibi to sell us F2P on all servers. Once the poll will come up the items will be back. Bronze F2P players will just out-vote the veterans from EQ2 (without the X).</p>

Golbezz
11-17-2011, 06:29 AM
<p><cite>Besual wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The removal of the few items from the marketplace is just an alibi to sell us F2P on all servers. Once the poll will come up the items will be back. Bronze F2P players will just out-vote the veterans from EQ2 (with X).</p></blockquote><p>You mean ex-veterans when many decide to cancel the day the game really goes pay-to-win?</p>

Dakora
11-20-2011, 03:22 AM
<p>I haven't been seen this posted but what about Station Access will those accounts also get the 500SC?</p>

Gaealiege
11-20-2011, 11:55 AM
<p>Yeah, you're probably right, Besual. </p>

WeatherMan
11-20-2011, 03:04 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I haven't been seen this posted but what about Station Access will those accounts also get the 500SC?</p></blockquote><p>Station Access <em><strong>should</strong></em> follow the rules as any subscription that is paid for/maintained by a credit card.  In other words, the only way you get Station Cash is if you use a credit card (and <em><strong>only</strong></em> a credit card) to pay for your subscription.</p><p>The one hiccup I see in this, as Kinya posted, is the issue of pre-paid time cards.  This issue has studiously <em><strong>not</strong></em> been addressed, unless I am unaware of a developer post that does, in a thread addressing a different subject entirely.</p>

Glenolas
11-22-2011, 04:26 AM
<p><cite>Besual wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The removal of the few items from the marketplace is just an alibi to sell us F2P on all servers. Once the poll will come up the items will be back. Bronze F2P players will just out-vote the veterans from EQ2 (without the X).</p></blockquote><p>They already had one "poll", didn't they?   Did you miss it?</p><p>Last week someone noticed a few of the special  EQ2x items weren't being removed from the marketplace when we change over.   SJ admitted an oops, spoke of looking into it.    Sounded like a poll would be needed, didn't it? </p><p>They decided to discuss the research reducers internally,  held a meeting, announced that they would stay in game because while they were indeed game changing items for cash,  they weren't  <em>sooooooo</em> game changing that it really made much difference.</p><p>See how SJ's polls work?    Next item please.   Standby for another poll.</p><p>Don't worry about bronze outvoting vets.   There are 8 servers of vets and about 1/2 a server of bronze.   It's the "this item doesn't really need a poll" coming from inside SOE that you need to worry about.</p>

Crismorn
11-22-2011, 07:02 AM
<p><cite>Golbezz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Besual wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The removal of the few items from the marketplace is just an alibi to sell us F2P on all servers. Once the poll will come up the items will be back. Bronze F2P players will just out-vote the veterans from EQ2 (with X).</p></blockquote><p>You mean ex-veterans when many decide to cancel the day the game really goes pay-to-win?</p></blockquote><p>I'd take pay - to - win and actual content over the horrible ftp system we have now.</p><p>pay to win games allow players to freely trade RL currency for In-game currency which is the entire point anyways so players that spend their time earning plat would still aquire the same items as the guy who drops RL cash down.</p>

WeatherMan
11-22-2011, 04:10 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Golbezz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Besual wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The removal of the few items from the marketplace is just an alibi to sell us F2P on all servers. Once the poll will come up the items will be back. Bronze F2P players will just out-vote the veterans from EQ2 (with X).</p></blockquote><p>You mean ex-veterans when many decide to cancel the day the game really goes pay-to-win?</p></blockquote><p>I'd take pay - to - win and actual content over the horrible ftp system we have now.</p><p>pay to win games allow players to freely trade RL currency for In-game currency which is the entire point anyways so players that spend their time earning plat would still aquire the same items as the guy who drops RL cash down.</p></blockquote><p>I can agree with that.</p><p>There isn't actually any 'play-to-win' items yet, anyways.  Plat-for-cash happens now, and while not officially condoned, as long as it is plat exchanged for Smedbucks, SOE doesn't say anything.</p>

Nrgy
11-22-2011, 05:48 PM
<p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>See how SJ's polls work?    Next item please.   Standby for another poll.</p><p>Don't worry about bronze outvoting vets.   There are 8 servers of vets and about 1/2 a server of bronze.   It's the "this item doesn't really need a poll" coming from inside SOE that you need to worry about.</p></blockquote><p>There is a finite number of Vets (Gold Members) and even some of them are in support of  F2P / Pay2Win, maybe even coming from that server mentality.  There is an infinite number of "bronze" accounts and I'd estimate it takes less than 5 minutes to get one up and running.  The power of any vote is in its supporters and their motivations.  If Bronze is included and they want a Wand of Obliteration there isn't any poll that will be veteran heavy.</p>

WeatherMan
11-22-2011, 09:35 PM
<p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>See how SJ's polls work?    Next item please.   Standby for another poll.</p><p>Don't worry about bronze outvoting vets.   There are 8 servers of vets and about 1/2 a server of bronze.   It's the "this item doesn't really need a poll" coming from inside SOE that you need to worry about.</p></blockquote><p>There is a finite number of Vets (Gold Members) and even some of them are in support of  F2P / Pay2Win, maybe even coming from that server mentality.  There is an infinite number of "bronze" accounts and I'd estimate it takes less than 5 minutes to get one up and running.  The power of any vote is in its supporters and their motivations.  If Bronze is included and they want a Wand of Obliteration there isn't any poll that will be veteran heavy.</p></blockquote><p>"Those who cast the votes decide nothing.  Those who count the votes decide everything."</p><p> - Joseph Stalin</p>

agentsix
11-22-2011, 10:11 PM
<p><cite>WeatherMan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>"Those who cast the votes decide nothing.  Those who count the votes decide everything."</p><p> - Joseph Stalin</p></blockquote><p>"Vote early and vote often."</p><p>Al Capone</p>

arvydys
11-22-2011, 10:59 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>SJ, could you be so kind and answer one more question please concerning recurring membership. I really would like to make sure, as I've been asked a lot about it. What about pre-paid cards?</p><p>There is a big problem in my country to pay subscribtion via credit cards (banks in Poland reject 0$ question sent from USA - it is against polish banking law) and most of my friends including me, we pay by using pre-paid cards. Is it recrurring membership? We pay this way since very long time... So will we get 500SC per month or not?</p></blockquote><p>Do you mean prepaid visa/mc/amex cards?  If so I would imagine they work as the system would just recognize them as a credit card.</p><p>If you mean the SoE 30 day cards than I would say probably not because they arent recurring.</p>