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View Full Version : Dear SOE, the next time you do something like the shard price removal from Ry'Gorr Armor...


Wurm
11-09-2011, 07:30 AM
<p>... throw those of us who spent the shards a bone.</p><p>Maybe 10 shards per 40 spent and/or 5 per 20 spent.</p><p>Or anything, heck a title would be enough I have a few suggestions...</p><p>So and So "Spender of shards"</p><p>or</p><p>So and So "The overachiever"</p><p>or</p><p>So and So "The Gullible"</p><p>for example.</p><p>That way when everyone else starts getting the same gear we worked our butts off "for free", we can either have a few shards to make the next grind less of a task, or a title to let everyone know we were there first.</p><p>And to those of you frothing at the mouth waiting to post "SOE has never blah blah blah..." Who cares? Just because they haven't done something up to now, doesn't mean they can't do it in the future.</p>

feldon30
11-09-2011, 07:32 AM
<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>So and So "The Gullible"</blockquote><p>I like it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

The_Cheeseman
11-09-2011, 07:39 AM
<p>This is rather like asking a store to give you your money back just because the product you bought was put on clearance. Early adopters always pay a higher price for stuff that people will eventually give away once it's no longer trendy. From removing flag requirements to raid zones (like Deathtoll) to making rare quest drops more common (Snuffing the Fireknight Pages), everything we worked hard for when it was new will eventually become trivial once it's no longer popular. The benefit of being an early adopter is the satisfaction and social status of having the thing before the rest of the crowd.</p>

Wurm
11-09-2011, 07:39 AM
<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>So and So "The Gullible"</blockquote><p>I like it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I like "The overachiever" personally... but as I now find myself grinding shards <span style="text-decoration: underline;">yet again</span> for the Drunder armor and having spent 40 for each piece of my Ry'Gorr, I'm thinking "The Gullible" is more apt.</p>

Wurm
11-09-2011, 07:49 AM
<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is rather like asking a store to give you your money back just because the product you bought was put on clearance. Early adopters always pay a higher price for stuff that people will eventually give away once it's no longer trendy. From removing flag requirements to raid zones (like Deathtoll) to making rare quest drops more common (Snuffing the Fireknight Pages), everything we worked hard for when it was new will eventually become trivial once it's no longer popular. The benefit of being an early adopter is the satisfaction and social status of having the thing before the rest of the crowd.</p></blockquote><p>Yours is the "frothing at the mouth" post I was referring to in my OP. There is no satisfaction or social status when everyone is wearing the same thing and no-one knows how hard you worked to get yours.</p><p>*edit* And your examples are talking about a few expacs ago, I'm referring to current and future content.</p><p>Hence my suggestion for a title.</p><p>That way people like you are happy that no one got any shards back, and people like me who paid shards for their armor are also appeased.</p>

Eugam
11-09-2011, 07:56 AM
<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is rather like asking a store to give you your money back just because the product you bought was put on clearance. Early adopters always pay a higher price for stuff that people will eventually give away once it's no longer trendy. From removing flag requirements to raid zones (like Deathtoll) to making rare quest drops more common (Snuffing the Fireknight Pages), everything we worked hard for when it was new will eventually become trivial once it's no longer popular. The benefit of being an early adopter is the satisfaction and social status of having the thing before the rest of the crowd.</p></blockquote><p>True, but the RyGorr armor ist different. SOE usually gave back if the lowered something. I remember a case where they gave us back plat.  Here they should have put some shards into the players bags if they bough RyGorr with shards.</p>

MrWolfie
11-09-2011, 08:35 AM
<p><cite>Eugam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is rather like asking a store to give you your money back just because the product you bought was put on clearance. Early adopters always pay a higher price for stuff that people will eventually give away once it's no longer trendy. From removing flag requirements to raid zones (like Deathtoll) to making rare quest drops more common (Snuffing the Fireknight Pages), everything we worked hard for when it was new will eventually become trivial once it's no longer popular. The benefit of being an early adopter is the satisfaction and social status of having the thing before the rest of the crowd.</p></blockquote><p>True, but the RyGorr armor ist different.</p></blockquote><p>Not really.</p><p>TBH, the time you have had the armor for had a cost. That cost was shards.</p>

feldon30
11-09-2011, 08:47 AM
<p>The people who had Ry'Gorr armor months ago were in guilds running constant guild groups to all these instances and are now sitting on stacks of shards (and probably fully decked out in ToFS x2 raid gear since that's really the next progression past DoV instances).Remember, Velious launched with many of the instances broken (and due to the reintroduction of Access Quests, most players were gated from doing more than a few instances for MONTHS), no solo shard quest, twice the shard cost on Ry'Gorr armor, and a long grind to get Ry'Gorr faction. This was also before the dungeons had been repeatedly nerfed, as they had all been tuned for people in Sentinel's Fate x4 HM gear.Heck, because of how secretive the launch of Destiny of Velious was, with almost NO developer explanations/interviews of how the gear worked, what the progression was, etc. most people didn't even know Ry'Gorr armor existed for the first month or two after Velious came out.<strong>The timing of this change was really a punch in the gut</strong> because many casual players had JUST completed their first or second Ry'Gorr set. Remember, up until GU60, Ry'Gorr armor was a higher price and there was no solo shard mission. Most of us only got to enjoy our Ry'Gorr armor set for a few days/weeks before this change was announced. The timing of this was awful.</p><p>Personally, if I were SOE, I would have given each player 5 primal velium shards for every piece of Ry'Gorr armor you have. So if you login after GU61 and have a full set of Ry'Gorr, you login with 30 more shards, which you can put towards 1 piece of Drunder armor, or 6 adornments.</p><p>Of course someone would rage that SOE are "dumbing down" the game. Oh wait, people already did that.</p><p>All these people who are using real world examples of the price dropping and there being no recourse and for people to just "get over it". I guess these folks have never heard of American Express Price Protection, Orbitz Price Protection, or let's talk about the original Apple iPhone which dropped from $599 to $399 two months after its release. Apple made that right with customers by providing $100 in-store credit. So folks please don't try to pull the wool over our eyes and say that when the price drops, that's it and there's no recourse. Cause I can pull out 10 more examples of businesses which HAVE made it right.</p>

Wurm
11-09-2011, 08:54 AM
<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The people who had Ry'Gorr armor months ago were in guilds running constant guild groups to all these instances and are now sitting on stacks of shards (and probably fully decked out in ToFS x2 raid gear since that's really the next progression past DoV instances).Remember, Velious launched with many of the instances broken (and due to the reintroduction of Access Quests, most players were gated from doing all the instances for MONTHS), no solo shard quest, twice the shard cost on Ry'Gorr armor, and a long faction grind to get Ry'Gorr faction.Heck, because of how secretive the launch of Destiny of Velious was, with almost NO developer explanations/interviews of how the gear worked, what the progression was, etc. most people didn't even know Ry'Gorr armor existed for the first month or two after Velious came out.<strong>The timing of this change was really a punch in the gut</strong> because many casual players had JUST completed their first or second Ry'Gorr set. Remember, up until GU60, Ry'Gorr armor was a higher price and there was no solo shard mission. Most of us only got to enjoy our Ry'Gorr armor set for a few days/weeks before this change was announced. The timing of this was awful.</p><p>Personally, if I were SOE, I would have given each player 5 primal velium shards for every piece of Ry'Gorr armor you have. So if you login after GU61 and have a full set of Ry'Gorr, you login with 30 more shards, which you can put towards 1 piece of Drunder armor, or 6 adornments.Of course someone would rage that SOE are "dumbing down" the game. Oh wait, people already did that.</p></blockquote><p>I took 2 weeks of vacation and did nothing but instance runs to get my Ry'Gorr shards (+ enough to get all the yellow adorns) and gems and TORZ BP and on the day I made (yeah I soloed the TS instance for the book too) my last piece at 40 shards they announce they were lowering the cost to 20. I was like "wait wut?!?!" The punch was a bit lower than the gut TBH.</p>

Katz
11-09-2011, 10:44 AM
<p>It depends on how they want people to react.  In my case, after seeing TSO shard armor go down in price, I just didn't push myself anymore to get armor.  I took a "put it off" attitude waiting for the "sale".  </p><p>Some people will push themselves to get the best right away.  I can understand that those that do will feel their effort devalued when the cost goes down.  </p><p>The TSO armor didn't go down until Marks armor came on board if I remember correctly.  It does seem this happened more rapidly with this last expansion.</p>

Velenda
11-09-2011, 11:39 AM
<p>Hmm...this is really interesting actually.</p><p>So this whole delamma is about the gear being tied to, if I may be so blunt, self worth? In essense what they did was emotinnally hurt the people who 'got there frist'? Am I on the right track?</p><p>Don't get me wrong I don't mean to be snarky with this post at all. However the whole 'wounded pride' aspect of the shard change, is very interesting from a psychological standpoint.</p><p>...and it'll be interesting to see what happens with the next set of gearand it's shard change.</p><p>It's all so facenating.</p>

Talathion
11-09-2011, 11:51 AM
<p>I didn't like the fact TSO armor was 4-10-14 shards.</p><p>And Rygorr was 90.</p><p>P.S. TSO Zones were also all fun to run.</p>

wullailhuit
11-09-2011, 12:15 PM
<blockquote><cite<p>All these people who are using real world examples of the price dropping and there being no recourse and for people to just "get over it". I guess these folks have never heard of American Express Price Protection, Orbitz Price Protection, or let's talk about the original Apple iPhone which dropped from $599 to $399 two months after its release. Apple made that right with customers by providing $100 in-store credit. So folks please don't try to pull the wool over our eyes and say that when the price drops, that's it and there's no recourse. Cause I can pull out 10 more examples of businesses which HAVE made it right.</p></blockquote> Those situations involve real world purchases of items that have a physical form , the difference here is the armour and shards are virtual items and aren't subject to the same terms.

Hamervelder
11-09-2011, 12:45 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><blockquote>All these people who are using real world examples of the price dropping and there being no recourse and for people to just "get over it". I guess these folks have never heard of American Express Price Protection, Orbitz Price Protection, or let's talk about the original Apple iPhone which dropped from $599 to $399 two months after its release. Apple made that right with customers by providing $100 in-store credit. So folks please don't try to pull the wool over our eyes and say that when the price drops, that's it and there's no recourse. Cause I can pull out 10 more examples of businesses which HAVE made it right.</blockquote> Those situations involve real world purchases of items that have a physical form , the difference here is the armour and shards are virtual items and aren't subject to the same terms. </blockquote><p>Real-world currency and EQ2 currency have one important thing in common:  <em>Time</em> invested in order to procure said currency. Attaining a full set of Ry'Gorr armor truly took a <em>lot</em> of time.  While I wasn't personally affected by this change, having gone from raiding SF to raiding DoV, I can see why people are upset.  Think about the dozens (if not hundreds) of hours that it took people to acrue the necessary shards to purchase Ry'Gorr armor, and about how all that time was quite literally, wasted.</p><p>On the other hand, SOE has a pretty nasty habit of nerfing things after a number of people have put forth the effort to defeat/acquire content, making it easier for the masses to do the same thing, with less time/effort.  So I guess this change really shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone.  Personally, I think the idea of needing faction AND tokens AND plat AND no-trade jems that require a level 90 crafter who also has additional faction, just to buy one piece of armor, was asinine to begin with.  SOE has never been very good at finding the middle-ground however, so none of us should really be surprised that SOE went from one asinine extreme to another, with no apparently sound reason.</p>

Wurm
11-09-2011, 01:06 PM
<p><cite>Velenda wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hmm...this is really interesting actually.</p><p>So this whole delamma is about the gear being tied to, if I may be so blunt, self worth? In essense what they did was emotinnally hurt the people who 'got there frist'? Am I on the right track?</p><p>Don't get me wrong I don't mean to be snarky with this post at all. However the whole 'wounded pride' aspect of the shard change, is very interesting from a psychological standpoint.</p><p>...and it'll be interesting to see what happens with the next set of gearand it's shard change.</p><p>It's all so facenating.</p></blockquote><p>I think you are reading way too much into it. Lets say its the same reason some Raiders frown on SLR to the best raid gear.</p><p>If you see someone wearing the same thing as you, you at least know what type and time of effort they invested. That is no longer the case.</p><p>And @ <span style="color: #cae0e6; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-style: italic; font-weight: bold; background-color: #07161e;">Wullailduo </span></p><p>Its exactly the same thing. Virtual vs Real makes no difference at all.</p>

Yimway
11-09-2011, 01:16 PM
<p>I still think this change was all about alts.  People weren't playing as much since they had to invest too much time into kitting each character with the gear needed to do the content they cared about. </p><p>With DoV before this change if you couldn't find a group on your primary toon, you found another game to play.  After the change if you group even moderately you have a cache of gems to quickly kit alts out into gear that meets the min quals for most content.  So after change your pool of available characters to find a group with increased, making it easier to get said group going.</p><p>People were losing interest in alting when they looked at all the potential grinding for said alt to be remotely useful.</p>

Velenda
11-09-2011, 01:22 PM
<p><span style="font-size: 11px;"><strong><em>Meh...I'll save my musings for later. ^_^</em></strong></span></p>

Elskidor
11-09-2011, 01:49 PM
<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>So and So "The Gullible"</blockquote><p>I like it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I like "The overachiever" personally... but as I now find myself grinding shards <span style="text-decoration: underline;">yet again</span> for the Drunder armor and having spent 40 for each piece of my Ry'Gorr, I'm thinking "The Gullible" is more apt.</p></blockquote><p>May not want overgrind that Drunder. I wouldn't be surprised if AoD release drops the shards or cut them down by triple.</p>

Wurm
11-09-2011, 01:56 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>So and So "The Gullible"</blockquote><p>I like it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I like "The overachiever" personally... but as I now find myself grinding shards <span style="text-decoration: underline;">yet again</span> for the Drunder armor and having spent 40 for each piece of my Ry'Gorr, I'm thinking "The Gullible" is more apt.</p></blockquote><p>May not want overgrind that Drunder. I wouldn't be surprised if AoD release drops the shards or cut them down by triple.</p></blockquote><p>I have nothing better to do at the moment and I am taking my sweet time about it this time around.</p>

MystsofLedge12
11-09-2011, 02:40 PM
<p>the loss of shards is buyer beware, its simple supply and demand</p><p>its no different than say a car, you can go to the dealer and buy a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado pickup pay $34,000 for it..... now wait 12 months the 2013's come out that same dealer has their 2012's on sale for $28,000</p><p>simply put SOE put out better armor sets ergo lower the price on the old ones.... its a clearance sale plain and simple.</p>

WanyenII
11-09-2011, 03:22 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><blockquote><p>... </p></blockquote>...</blockquote><p>Real-world currency and EQ2 currency have one important thing in common:  <em>Time</em> invested in order to procure said currency. Attaining a full set of Ry'Gorr armor truly took a <em>lot</em> of time.  While I wasn't personally affected by this change, having gone from raiding SF to raiding DoV, I can see why people are upset.  Think about the dozens (if not hundreds) of hours that it took people to acrue the necessary shards to purchase Ry'Gorr armor, and about how all that time was quite literally, wasted.</p><p>On the other hand, SOE has a pretty nasty habit of nerfing things after a number of people have put forth the effort to defeat/acquire content, making it easier for the masses to do the same thing, with less time/effort.  So I guess this change really shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone.  <strong>Personally, I think the idea of needing faction AND tokens AND plat AND no-trade jems that require a level 90 crafter who also has additional faction, just to buy one piece of armor, was asinine to begin with.  </strong>SOE has never been very good at finding the middle-ground however, so none of us should really be surprised that SOE went from one asinine extreme to another, with no apparently sound reason.</p></blockquote><p>QFT.  Take it a step further.  The armor still isnt good enough even after you get it, as you still need more power ups (adorns) added to it, which is more gems, more coin, and yet another set of factions to appease.  Oh and that is at every tier of throw away armor; not just the expansion wrap up set.</p>

Amitee
11-09-2011, 03:29 PM
<p>There's a reason why I don't get into the PvE/raiding side of this game.  Since I've been back, I've been watching SoE's moves on how they are dealing with this content.  If I was a raider/PvEer? I would be just as upset as I'm seeing people here, and have been on the forums for awhile.  </p><p>And it's not that I don't enjoy PvEing with other people, it's that it's too messy with what's been designed (undesigned?) at this point.  I don't want to be frustrated and angry over a game.  I further hate to say it, but I play another MMO for my PvE fix and play EQ2 for my crafting and decorating fixes.  </p><p>I would love nothing more than to see SoE get their "stuff" together around EQ2 and make it the one game we all want to play and enjoy, instead of creating these divisions where everyone wants to attack and blame each other for what they perceive as the downfall of the game.</p>

Wurm
11-09-2011, 03:34 PM
<p><cite>MystsofLedge12 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>the loss of shards is buyer beware, its simple supply and demand</p><p>its no different than say a car, you can go to the dealer and buy a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado pickup pay $34,000 for it..... now wait 12 months the 2013's come out that same dealer has their 2012's on sale for $28,000</p><p>simply put SOE put out better armor sets ergo lower the price on the old ones.... its a clearance sale plain and simple.</p></blockquote><p>Please go see Feldon's post... and read it carefully. Thanks.</p>

Kizee
11-09-2011, 03:40 PM
<p><cite>Amitee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's a reason why I don't get into the PvE/raiding side of this game.  Since I've been back, I've been watching SoE's moves on how they are dealing with this content.  If I was a raider/PvEer? I would be just as upset as I'm seeing people here, and have been on the forums for awhile.  </p><p>And it's not that I don't enjoy PvEing with other people, it's that it's too messy with what's been designed (undesigned?) at this point.  I don't want to be frustrated and angry over a game.  <span style="color: #ffff00;">I further hate to say it, but I play another MMO for my PvE fix and play EQ2 for my crafting and decorating fixes.  </span></p><p>I would love nothing more than to see SoE get their "stuff" together around EQ2 and make it the one game we all want to play and enjoy, instead of creating these divisions where everyone wants to attack and blame each other for what they perceive as the downfall of the game.</p></blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I laughed when I read that because it is true. It seems that the the decorators have been getting the lions share lately between the ton of SC stuff and quests that reward house items.</p>

Kringus
11-09-2011, 04:05 PM
<p>I don't think the shard cost changes were about alts- because once your main is geared getting your alt gear is easy.  I think it was trying to engineer people into moving along into Drunder.</p><p>IMO they'd have done better to make it _easier_ to get shards without removing the shard costs- because honestly if you don't group enough to have already gotten shard gear, you don't belong in Drunder.</p><p>I really have a hard time caring one way or another though- its been long enough since I've seen something new I pretty much fall asleep playing the game at this point.  It doesn't help that the drunder group, x2, and raid instances are all clones, making a grand total of 10 zones that look the same (maybe more, I lost count after 3). </p>

gourdon
11-09-2011, 06:02 PM
<p>Both sides of the argument are right to some degree.  The cost should go down over time, especially since it is largely about gearing alts at some point.  However, this implementation was not handled well.  The price drop was a bit too abrupt.  Having Thurgadin armor cost 5/piece and Ry'Gorr 10/piece would have been better before making them both 0 or 0 and 5 the next time there is a price drop.  Going from 20 to 0 was just too steep a drop.  It isn't quite the same as the drop from 40 to 20.</p>

Crismorn
11-09-2011, 06:05 PM
<p>You get it early that is the advantage.</p><p>Every xpac a few good guilds get the top end gear before the mobs are nerfed to crapola, should they get better gear for doing it before the content is a complete joke?  Well yeah they should, but they dont and that is a far greater crime then some heroic gear going down in cost.</p>

Xianthia
11-09-2011, 08:07 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You get it early that is the advantage.</p><p>Every xpac a few good guilds get the top end gear before the mobs are nerfed to crapola, should they get better gear for doing it before the content is a complete joke?  Well yeah they should, but they dont and that is a far greater crime then some heroic gear going down in cost.</p></blockquote><p>That's how I thought about it for my main toon, yes I paid the full amounts and "worked" hard to get those shards. I got to reap the rewards for a longer period of time using that gear.</p>

Mermut
11-09-2011, 11:01 PM
<p>Actually, the thing I find most annoying about the change to ry'gorr armor.. I spent shards on my armor, but now I can't transmute it, because people, now can buy their armor with plat. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

The_Cheeseman
11-10-2011, 01:24 AM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You get it early that is the advantage.</p><p>Every xpac a few good guilds get the top end gear before the mobs are nerfed to crapola, should they get better gear for doing it before the content is a complete joke?  Well yeah they should, but they dont and that is a far greater crime then some heroic gear going down in cost.</p></blockquote><p>This is precisely what I was saying. It's always been true that the cost and relative value of any in-game accomplishment will go down over time. Granted, it is generally not as abrupt as the Ry'Gorr shard cost change, but it is true nonetheless. At one time, people would pay hundreds of plat to join a raid guild to kill VP MOBs for their mythical weapons, but now you can get your mythical by doing trivial zones that some folks can solo. The VP MOBs? They're soloable too, and most of their loot is mute fodder. Both the cost and the value of VP loot and mythical weapons have gone down.</p><p>That's how MMOs operate, the next big thing always obsoletes the last big thing. Unlike real-world goods, in-game items have no absolute value. They aren't made of any materials that can be recycled, they generally do not maintain collector appeal, and they have no intrinsic cultural value as art. When an item is no longer relevant, its value drops to zero (or at least to the minimum you can get from an NPC vendor). SOE decided that they wanted the general populace to get into the newer zones and content, so they artificially devalued the Ry'Gorr armor so that people could get a head start. It's a matter of opinion whether that was a wise choice at this stage, but even if they hadn't done so, the drop in value was inevitable.</p><p>The last point is simply this: the time and effort spent collecting those shards was time you spent playing the game. The value of that play time was the entertainment, not the in-game value of the rewards you earned in that period. Earning shards gave you motivation and purpose--it kept you logging in every day and playing. Even if the shards are no longer valuable, the experiences you had in game still maintain their value.</p><p>Bottom line: if you base the value of your time playing EQ2 on the value of the in-game rewards you earn while doing so, you WILL be disappointed. Playing the game should be fun, regardless of whether you actually earn anything of lasting value. Everything you have on your character will eventually become worthless, so unless you enjoyed the act of earning it, you're making a very poor investment.</p>

kaboro
11-10-2011, 01:42 AM
<p><cite>Velenda wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hmm...this is really interesting actually.</p><p>So this whole delamma is about the gear being tied to, if I may be so blunt, self worth? In essense what they did was emotinnally hurt the people who 'got there frist'? Am I on the right track?</p><p>Don't get me wrong I don't mean to be snarky with this post at all. However the whole 'wounded pride' aspect of the shard change, is very interesting from a psychological standpoint.</p><p>...and it'll be interesting to see what happens with the next set of gearand it's shard change.</p><p>It's all so facenating.</p></blockquote><p>In the sea of negativity its nice to see posts like this that make me giggle incontrollably for some odd reason <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Tigress
11-10-2011, 03:00 AM
<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The people who had Ry'Gorr armor months ago were in guilds running constant guild groups to all these instances and are now sitting on stacks of shards (and probably fully decked out in ToFS x2 raid gear since that's really the next progression past DoV instances).Remember, Velious launched with many of the instances broken (and due to the reintroduction of Access Quests, most players were gated from doing more than a few instances for MONTHS), no solo shard quest, twice the shard cost on Ry'Gorr armor, and a long grind to get Ry'Gorr faction. This was also before the dungeons had been repeatedly nerfed, as they had all been tuned for people in Sentinel's Fate x4 HM gear.Heck, because of how secretive the launch of Destiny of Velious was, with almost NO developer explanations/interviews of how the gear worked, what the progression was, etc. most people didn't even know Ry'Gorr armor existed for the first month or two after Velious came out.<strong>The timing of this change was really a punch in the gut</strong> because many casual players had JUST completed their first or second Ry'Gorr set. Remember, up until GU60, Ry'Gorr armor was a higher price and there was no solo shard mission. Most of us only got to enjoy our Ry'Gorr armor set for a few days/weeks before this change was announced. The timing of this was awful.</p><p>Personally, if I were SOE, I would have given each player 5 primal velium shards for every piece of Ry'Gorr armor you have. So if you login after GU61 and have a full set of Ry'Gorr, you login with 30 more shards, which you can put towards 1 piece of Drunder armor, or 6 adornments.</p><p>Of course someone would rage that SOE are "dumbing down" the game. Oh wait, people already did that.</p><p>All these people who are using real world examples of the price dropping and there being no recourse and for people to just "get over it". I guess these folks have never heard of American Express Price Protection, Orbitz Price Protection, or let's talk about the original Apple iPhone which dropped from $599 to $399 two months after its release. Apple made that right with customers by providing $100 in-store credit. So folks please don't try to pull the wool over our eyes and say that when the price drops, that's it and there's no recourse. Cause I can pull out 10 more examples of businesses which HAVE made it right.</p></blockquote><p>that describes me.  had not been wearing the gear very long on my fury and then they made it free.  in addition, i had to use shards on my necro bc nobody would let me join them even in pools with my crappy gear and less than two weeks later, the shards were no longer needed.  (recall that this was before the whole crit mit removal thing.  for about half of my necro's gear, i knew that it was coming but had reasons why i couldnt wait a week or two.)  to top it off, in the process of making my necro her pants, i accidentally made two.  they refused to refund my shards.  (i didn't care if they deleted the item and i lost it, i just wanted the shards back.)  the next week, when it was free to make, they still refused to return shards. </p><p>very few stores have a "no return" / "too bad so sad" policy now.  its usually 30, 60 or 90 days money back and/or price adjustment.  SOE could have done similar.  now, it might be too difficult to find out who spent what but before it went live, however, they could have very easily had a check in the inventory and refund at least partial shards when they released the GU.  if someone had the gear since feb, then it probably didn't bug them very much.  if someone had it less than a month, it probably stunk.</p>

hoosierdaddy
11-10-2011, 05:25 AM
<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>... throw those of us who spent the shards a bone.</p><p>Maybe 10 shards per 40 spent and/or 5 per 20 spent.</p><p>Or anything, heck a title would be enough I have a few suggestions...</p><p>So and So "Spender of shards"</p><p>or</p><p>So and So "The overachiever"</p><p>or</p><p>So and So "The Gullible"</p><p>for example.</p><p>That way when everyone else starts getting the same gear we worked our butts off "for free", we can either have a few shards to make the next grind less of a task, or a title to let everyone know we were there first.</p><p>And to those of you frothing at the mouth waiting to post "SOE has never blah blah blah..." Who cares? Just because they haven't done something up to now, doesn't mean they can't do it in the future.</p></blockquote><p>I came to the conclusion a long time ago that Live Servers are now just a beta for EQ2X.</p><p>No matter the rationale originally provided, I believe that the F2P server is always going to be an expansion behind so that we can fine-tune the content before it is released to them.</p><p>Which is ironic, that we're paying to play on live servers to test content for those who play for 'free.'</p><p>Think about it. When EQ2X gets to Velious, all of the gear, instances, mobs, and faction mechanics and rewards will be ironed out, courtesy of us.</p><p>You're welcome. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p>

Valdaglerion
11-10-2011, 10:41 AM
<p>These decisions has become purely business decisions. This game is no longer about competition, about being the best, about knowing the game. It is about being the first, about being on the parse, about having the right gear. Gear has become so paramount that unless they let people catch up quickly, they will have less and less motivation to buy the upcoming xpac. This trend really started in TSO and has gotten worse through the last 2 xpacs.</p>

Kenazeer
11-10-2011, 10:55 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Gear has become so paramount that unless they let people catch up quickly, they will have less and less motivation to buy the upcoming xpac.</p></blockquote><p>Is there something in the new "expansion" that I am missing that requires better gear and therefore motivates its purchase?</p>

Velenda
11-10-2011, 11:43 AM
<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is precisely what I was saying. It's always been true that the cost and relative value of any in-game accomplishment will go down over time. Granted, it is generally not as abrupt as the Ry'Gorr shard cost change, but it is true nonetheless. At one time, people would pay hundreds of plat to join a raid guild to kill VP MOBs for their mythical weapons, but now you can get your mythical by doing trivial zones that some folks can solo. The VP MOBs? They're soloable too, and most of their loot is mute fodder. Both the cost and the value of VP loot and mythical weapons have gone down.</p><p>That's how MMOs operate, the next big thing always obsoletes the last big thing. Unlike real-world goods, in-game items have no absolute value. They aren't made of any materials that can be recycled, they generally do not maintain collector appeal, and they have no intrinsic cultural value as art. When an item is no longer relevant, its value drops to zero (or at least to the minimum you can get from an NPC vendor). SOE decided that they wanted the general populace to get into the newer zones and content, so they artificially devalued the Ry'Gorr armor so that people could get a head start. It's a matter of opinion whether that was a wise choice at this stage, but even if they hadn't done so, the drop in value was inevitable.</p><p>The last point is simply this: the time and effort spent collecting those shards was time you spent playing the game. The value of that play time was the entertainment, not the in-game value of the rewards you earned in that period. Earning shards gave you motivation and purpose--it kept you logging in every day and playing. Even if the shards are no longer valuable, the experiences you had in game still maintain their value.</p><p>Bottom line: if you base the value of your time playing EQ2 on the value of the in-game rewards you earn while doing so, you WILL be disappointed. Playing the game should be fun, regardless of whether you actually earn anything of lasting value. Everything you have on your character will eventually become worthless, so unless you enjoyed the act of earning it, you're making a very poor investment.</p></blockquote><p>This...is everything I've ever wanted to say on the subject.</p><p>I tip my hat to you!</p>

Felshades
11-10-2011, 05:30 PM
<p><cite>Velenda wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hmm...this is really interesting actually.</p><p>So this whole delamma is about the gear being tied to, if I may be so blunt, self worth? In essense what they did was emotinnally hurt the people who 'got there frist'? Am I on the right track?</p><p>Don't get me wrong I don't mean to be snarky with this post at all. However the whole 'wounded pride' aspect of the shard change, is very interesting from a psychological standpoint.</p><p>...and it'll be interesting to see what happens with the next set of gearand it's shard change.</p><p>It's all so facenating.</p></blockquote><p>It is fascinating. And It's also amusing because it just SCREAMS to me "WHAAAAAAA". Entitlement. Self worth. In a video game. The tears, they sustain my amusement.</p>

kaboro
11-10-2011, 05:43 PM
<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Bottom line: if you base the value of your time playing EQ2 on the value of the in-game rewards you earn while doing so, you WILL be disappointed. Playing the game should be fun, regardless of whether you actually earn anything of lasting value. Everything you have on your character will eventually become worthless, so unless you enjoyed the act of earning it, you're making a very poor investment.</p></blockquote><p>So true. Ive seen players being called "under-achievers" many times before, and i was thinking that the only real achievement from playing an mmo (or anyother game for that matter) is the fun you have while playing it. The rest is just fluff that will turn to dust like everything else.</p>

kaboro
11-10-2011, 05:55 PM
<p><cite>Eugam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>True, but the RyGorr armor ist different. SOE usually gave back if the lowered something. I remember a case where they gave us back plat.  Here they should have put some shards into the players bags if they bough RyGorr with shards.</p></blockquote><p>I didnt know that, and its nice seeing SoE showing such respect to their players but...times are changing, in the world of f2p, respect is a rare commodity and thats where we going, so deal with it. </p><p>On a "bright" note there are way worse things happening in the real world ... so when you compare, the mmo world is still more fun than the real world, but yeah as the real world standards go down a few notches, so will everything else...including mmos.</p>

Felshades
11-10-2011, 07:13 PM
<p><cite>kaboro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Bottom line: if you base the value of your time playing EQ2 on the value of the in-game rewards you earn while doing so, you WILL be disappointed. Playing the game should be fun, regardless of whether you actually earn anything of lasting value. Everything you have on your character will eventually become worthless, so unless you enjoyed the act of earning it, you're making a very poor investment.</p></blockquote><p>So true. Ive seen players being called "under-achievers" many times before, and i was thinking that the only real achievement from playing an mmo (or anyother game for that matter) is the fun you have while playing it. The rest is just fluff that will turn to dust like everything else.</p></blockquote><p>I like you.</p>