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MystsofLedge12
11-09-2011, 02:01 AM
<p>While playing i noticed a pair of tank pants from Drunder X2 go for 1300 Plat</p><p>Now SLR is another issue but my question is with so many players with thousands of plat on their toons do we have too many fat cats in norrath and does SOE need to find a way to remove some plat from the game?</p>

Brigh
11-09-2011, 02:15 AM
The game needs to be designed from the ground-up or large game-changing mechanics that you know will never happen be put into place. Things like items disappearing from the world, being created by players/npc cooperation, etc. When most of the items people use and wear come from infinite free sources and not from players that need consumable products, you will always have large inflation problems on servers the older they get.

Golbezz
11-09-2011, 04:15 AM
<p><cite>MystsofLedge12 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While playing i noticed a pair of tank pants from Drunder X2 go for 1300 Plat</p><p>Now SLR is another issue but my question is with so many players with thousands of plat on their toons do we have too many fat cats in norrath and does SOE need to find a way to remove some plat from the game?</p></blockquote><p>People get easy plat from duo or even solo farming of zones like PR, SoH and others that are green con at 90. I tend to not bother with loot rights because I'm cheap and can get the loot for alts by raiding for it but I do get my alts masters with all that easy plat that I get soloing or duoing old raid zones with my main and alts.</p><p>The best way to deal with the excess amount of plat is first stopping the flow of it into the game, then adding additional plat sinks after the flow is slowed a bit.</p><p>Some might hate me for saying this but OLD zones dropping lots of plat could always have the plat values based on the number of players present in the raid or group. This would have 0 effect on the casual or progression guilds doing zones with a full group/raid, but someone 1 grouping PR for example would get the same amount per-person as a full raid or 1/4 the total amount a 24 player raid would see from the chest. Yeah, I know some people would hate it, but at least it would help control the flow of plat into the game a bit.</p>

gourdon
11-09-2011, 04:24 AM
<p><cite>MystsofLedge12 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While playing i noticed a pair of tank pants from Drunder X2 go for 1300 Plat</p><p>Now SLR is another issue but my question is with so many players with thousands of plat on their toons do we have too many fat cats in norrath and does SOE need to find a way to remove some plat from the game?</p></blockquote><p>I can only guess that you think that is too high a price for that item.  It probably is to some degree, but that is because supply is throttled by a difficult sales process (SLR).  If you want to have that kind of cash, the 1300 that changed hands in that transaction is still in the game, and along with a whole lot more "fat cat" money, will be spent.  You just need to figure out how to get it.</p>

IceStormx
11-09-2011, 04:47 AM
<p><cite>Brigh wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The game needs to be designed from the ground-up or large game-changing mechanics that you know will never happen be put into place. Things like items disappearing from the world, being created by players/npc cooperation, etc. When most of the items people use and wear come from infinite free sources and not from players that need consumable products, you will always have large inflation problems on servers the older they get.</blockquote><p>A cap on coin a toon is allowed to carry and bank and broker would take care of inflation forever</p>

Nynaeve
11-09-2011, 05:28 AM
<p><cite>IceStormx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A cap on coin a toon is allowed to carry and bank and broker would take care of inflation forever</p></blockquote><p>that is ridiculous. What SOE could do is put in some service payable in Plat, depending on the Level of the buyer that offers something temporarily like increase loot-chance faster runspeed, or crafting XP. The plat spent here will reduce inflation cause SOE wont spend it into the economy like a player.</p><p>Hire a merc might just be such a service, although it may be more used by lower players who dont have that huge sums of plat. we will see</p>

MystsofLedge12
11-09-2011, 05:28 AM
<p>I do think its a lot of Plat to pay for an item, i was mearly making an observation, i think that X2 raid sold like 6,000 plat worth of gear in that run.</p><p>Taking some of the plat out of circulation wont help it much, it may cost 100 plat where your veteran toons would only have for example 500 Plat in their bank.</p><p>It is still a matter of ratio's  if they cut half the plat everyone had, then it would be half as much however everyone had half the plat they used to.</p><p>What if they put casino's in the game with house odds that match R/L casino's (and i'm not just talking about the gigglegibber goblin) where one could play plat poker, slots, roulette ect.</p><p>And aren't we glad we don't have to worry about converting our copper to silver to gold to plat and it all had weight anymore</p>

Golbezz
11-09-2011, 06:06 AM
<p><cite>IceStormx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A cap on coin a toon is allowed to carry and bank and broker would take care of inflation forever</p></blockquote><p>Do you really think this would happen? Players would just take more of a chance getting involved in black market plat trading once they got close to the plat cap and more plat would be available for purchase which would make the problem far worse than it is now.</p>

Labruja
11-09-2011, 06:27 AM
<p>People who have played for a long period of time generally have a lot of plat saved up.  This is the way it should be.  Those who have worked for it have it, those who haven't, don't.  Creating artificial plat sinks will only hurt newer players, not those who already have an abundance, but it might make those who lose it a little less willing to re-sub when a new game comes on the scene.  Take it from one who has restarted on a new account, it takes a LOT of work to get that amount of plat saved up.</p>

feldon30
11-09-2011, 06:28 AM
The armchair economists here really scare me.

Malleria
11-09-2011, 06:34 AM
<p><cite>Labruja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People who have played for a long period of time generally have a lot of plat saved up.  This is the way it should be.  Those who have worked for it have it, those who haven't, don't.  Creating artificial plat sinks will only hurt newer players, not those who already have an abundance, but it might make those who lose it a little less willing to re-sub when a new game comes on the scene.  Take it from one who has restarted on a new account, it takes a LOT of work to get that amount of plat saved up.</p></blockquote><p>Yea, that must be it. Everyone with lots of plat is just a long time player. They don't buy it with real cash. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p>

feldon30
11-09-2011, 06:48 AM
<p>Run through all the Kunark, Sentinel's Fate, and Velious quests. Each one awards 20-40 gold. If you don't have 250 plat after all that, you're doing it wrong.Join a raid guild that does plat splits and you will be making 50-75 plat a week.Run SF or DoV dungeons and sell the shinies. They routinely go for 1-20 plat, especially the rare TSO dungeon ones (the Sig collection).When I was making Ry'Gorr armor and Scout spells for people, I was making 20-30 plat a night just in tips.You cannot assume that someone with 5,000 or more plat bought it or did anything untoward to get it.</p>

Malleria
11-09-2011, 07:02 AM
<p>Sure, not all of them. It's the non-raiders, non-crafters, that don't quest dropping 3k+ a week in auctions that are suspicious <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>It's just as naive to assume no one buys plat.</p>

Wurm
11-09-2011, 07:16 AM
<p>Honest Players "with thousands of plat" are still very much the minority.</p><p>And it is a rare item indeed that goes more than 500 plat during a SLR Auction on my server.</p><p>I don't see much of a problem with inflation.</p><p>The only big problem I see is that the broker has nothing interesting on it since DOV came out.</p>

Labruja
11-09-2011, 10:18 AM
<p><cite>Malleria wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Labruja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People who have played for a long period of time generally have a lot of plat saved up.  This is the way it should be.  Those who have worked for it have it, those who haven't, don't.  Creating artificial plat sinks will only hurt newer players, not those who already have an abundance, but it might make those who lose it a little less willing to re-sub when a new game comes on the scene.  Take it from one who has restarted on a new account, it takes a LOT of work to get that amount of plat saved up.</p></blockquote><p>Yea, that must be it. Everyone with lots of plat is just a long time player. They don't buy it with real cash. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Hmmm, how quickly the subject did change...</p><p>I guess I'm foolish enough to think that the original post is meant as it stands, silly me.  On that score, way to much sarcasm around here, especially towards players who might strike you as a little naive, even if they are undeserving.  Guess I'll be looking for yet another game to play.</p>

Katz
11-09-2011, 10:30 AM
<p><cite>IceStormx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brigh wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The game needs to be designed from the ground-up or large game-changing mechanics that you know will never happen be put into place. Things like items disappearing from the world, being created by players/npc cooperation, etc. When most of the items people use and wear come from infinite free sources and not from players that need consumable products, you will always have large inflation problems on servers the older they get.</blockquote><p>A cap on coin a toon is allowed to carry and bank and broker would take care of inflation forever</p></blockquote><p>It would also remove motivation from those who like to have lots of plat.  And if you just play the game, doing quests, selling on the broker, you can easily get up to 500 or so plat if you aren't spending it away all the time.</p><p>There are lots of ways to honestly earn plat.</p>

Wurm
11-09-2011, 10:33 AM
<p><cite>Labruja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Malleria wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Labruja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People who have played for a long period of time generally have a lot of plat saved up.  This is the way it should be.  Those who have worked for it have it, those who haven't, don't.  Creating artificial plat sinks will only hurt newer players, not those who already have an abundance, but it might make those who lose it a little less willing to re-sub when a new game comes on the scene.  Take it from one who has restarted on a new account, it takes a LOT of work to get that amount of plat saved up.</p></blockquote><p>Yea, that must be it. Everyone with lots of plat is just a long time player. They don't buy it with real cash. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Hmmm, how quickly the subject did change...</p><p>I guess I'm foolish enough to think that the original post is meant as it stands, silly me.  On that score, way to much sarcasm around here, especially towards players who might strike you as a little naive, even if they are undeserving.  Guess I'll be looking for yet another game to play.</p></blockquote><p>I agree with you on your first post. And don't ever let someone at the forums get to you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Eugam
11-09-2011, 10:45 AM
<p><cite>Malleria wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sure, not all of them. It's the non-raiders, non-crafters, that don't quest dropping 3k+ a week in auctions that are suspicious <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>It's just as naive to assume no one buys plat.</p></blockquote><p>Most probably some buy with money or cards.</p><p>But SLR has become a game element. Many people play only to gain. Fast instances, plat x2 runs, green raid runs, HZ etc.</p><p>If you sell loot and do play only for gain for a while, then you ll have the plat to buy something expensive.</p>

Banditman
11-09-2011, 11:15 AM
<p>The easiest way to get plat out of the game is to introduce something that players will value which is only sold by NPC's.  It seems pretty simple really.</p><p>How about going to the temple of your chosen god and getting some sort of MEANINGFUL buff for a donation?  Higher donations for longer duration.  Make sure the buff doesn't cancel on death.  (Also has the side effect of returning life to the cities, if in a really artificial way)</p><p>If some of the guild flags (standards) were actually worthwhile, that'd be another great place to drain cash.</p><p>I'm sure there are numerous other ways to do this, but to drain plat from the economy, it has to be NPC's providing the services.</p>

Lempo
11-09-2011, 11:32 AM
<p><cite>MystsofLedge12 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While playing i noticed a pair of tank pants from Drunder X2 go for 1300 Plat</p><p>Now SLR is another issue but my question is with so many players with thousands of plat on their toons<strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"> do we have too many fat cats in norrath</span></strong> and does SOE need to find a way to remove some plat from the game?</p></blockquote><p>Don't you have a park to go 'occupy' somewhere?</p>

Lempo
11-09-2011, 11:40 AM
<p>There used to be plat sinks and status sinks, housing/mounts etc. there could be more but if SOE were to dare put items in the game that cost a lot of plat and a lot of status to purchase then people like the OP speaking of 'fat cats' and the hated 1% et al. would be screaming 'foul' because someone that had more than they did actually was able to get something better.</p><p>How about faster mounts available for status purchases like it was before the game was turned into a Barbie competition? How about bigger and better homes for plat and status?</p>

Kenazeer
11-09-2011, 11:47 AM
<p><cite>Labruja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Guess I'll be looking for yet another game to play.</p></blockquote><p>Dang. Gonna bail that easily? Just let it slide off your back like water off a duck's. Otherwise, what is that old saying about the door?</p>

Tylia
11-09-2011, 01:08 PM
<p><cite>Katz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>IceStormx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brigh wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The game needs to be designed from the ground-up or large game-changing mechanics that you know will never happen be put into place. Things like items disappearing from the world, being created by players/npc cooperation, etc. When most of the items people use and wear come from infinite free sources and not from players that need consumable products, you will always have large inflation problems on servers the older they get.</blockquote><p>A cap on coin a toon is allowed to carry and bank and broker would take care of inflation forever</p></blockquote><p><strong>It would also remove motivation from those who like to have lots of plat.</strong>  And if you just play the game, doing quests, selling on the broker, you can easily get up to 500 or so plat if you aren't spending it away all the time.</p><p>There are lots of ways to honestly earn plat.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly.  I LIKE having all of the plat that I do.  I worked hard to earn it, scrimped, saved (I'm stingy), and I have earned every single one of them honestly.  Why should I be forced to spend what I have earned just because some "have-nots" are a bit jealous?  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p>

Yimway
11-09-2011, 01:26 PM
<p>The inflation is due to trivial zones providing too much plat rewards.</p><p>Raid zones dropping plat for raiding expenses was a good thing they added in KoS.  When you look at the costs in repairs, pots, whetstones, etc, etc, the costs of raiding were going up and needed something to offset it.</p><p>The flaw in this was putting static coin amounts in those chests.  If chests in PR dropped .8-1.2p per player in raid, we'd not have the inflation we have.  Since they were setup with static values no matter if 1 person killed the mob or 24, the coin added to raiding to offset the cost of 24 people was obtainable by a single person.</p><p>I have to blame this decision and how it was implimented for what has grossly inflated the eq2 marketplace.  In economic terms it has provided way too much supply to the marketplace.  In fact, I know I can make 120p in 15 minutes doing PR runs, and I have enough toons that I can run a min of 2 runs per day of the week.  So I no longer evaluate the purchace of something in game in terms of platinum coins, but rather PR units. </p><p>If an activity to make coin takes more than 15 minutes and yeilds less than a PR run, its not worth doing (see crafting).  A chest piece for my 7th alt for 720p is just 6 PR units or 90 mins of farming to get.</p><p>The first step to fixing the flood gates on the supply of coin in the eq2 marketplace is to revamp raid coin rewards to be biased off the number of people participating.</p>

Glenolas
11-09-2011, 01:35 PM
<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You cannot assume that someone with 5,000 or more plat bought it or did anything untoward to get it.</p></blockquote><p>          ^^^this</p><p>          I've played since launch, and have somewhere between 20000 and 30000 plat,  after mastering out 9 toons, 2 recently.  Every 6 months or so I enter the various stashes into a spreadsheet, to see where it stands. Otherwise it just sloshes around, ever climbing.    It's not a big deal.</p><p>I've never bought plat,  just did slight variantions on what you've listed above.   It's very easy to obtain in normal day to day gameplay.  As many have said,  there's nothing left to buy so it keeps accumulating.</p><p>I believe this to be typical of folks who've played a long time and raised a lot of toons.   Nothing out of the ordinary.  Claiming they must have bought it somewhere just indicates a poor understanding of the mechanics of obtaining plat, or an impatience with their own pace.</p>

Yimway
11-09-2011, 01:43 PM
<p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Claiming they must have bought it somewhere just indicates a poor understanding of the mechanics of obtaining plat, or an impatience with their own pace.</blockquote><p>Fact.</p><p>And those that spend money to get plat pretty much spend it all in a matter of hours / days, so they aren't the ones sitting on 5k+ anyway.</p>

GussJr
11-09-2011, 01:46 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Claiming they must have bought it somewhere just indicates a poor understanding of the mechanics of obtaining plat, or an impatience with their own pace.</blockquote><p>Fact.</p></blockquote><p>+1</p>

Geothe
11-09-2011, 01:49 PM
<p>The game really does lack meaningful plat sinks, that is the biggest problem and the cause of the extreme prices.</p><p>Plat is EXTREMELY easy to get, so thousands and thousands of plat are added to the server economy on a daily basis.. and only an extremely minute portion of that is removed by in-game plat sinks.  Not a healthy game design, but whatever.</p>

Wurm
11-09-2011, 01:54 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The inflation is due to trivial zones providing too much plat rewards.</p><p>Raid zones dropping plat for raiding expenses was a good thing they added in KoS.  When you look at the costs in repairs, pots, whetstones, etc, etc, the costs of raiding were going up and needed something to offset it.</p><p>The flaw in this was putting static coin amounts in those chests.  If chests in PR dropped .8-1.2p per player in raid, we'd not have the inflation we have.  Since they were setup with static values no matter if 1 person killed the mob or 24, the coin added to raiding to offset the cost of 24 people was obtainable by a single person.</p><p>I have to blame this decision and how it was implimented for what has grossly inflated the eq2 marketplace.  In economic terms it has provided way too much supply to the marketplace.  In fact, I know I can make 120p in 15 minutes doing PR runs, and I have enough toons that I can run a min of 2 runs per day of the week.  So I no longer evaluate the purchace of something in game in terms of platinum coins, but rather PR units. </p><p>If an activity to make coin takes more than 15 minutes and yeilds less than a PR run, its not worth doing (see crafting).  A chest piece for my 7th alt for 720p is just 6 PR units or 90 mins of farming to get.</p><p>The first step to fixing the flood gates on the supply of coin in the eq2 marketplace is to revamp raid coin rewards to be biased off the number of people participating.</p></blockquote><p>I have never come out of one PR run with that much plat including transmutes... while I do sort of agree with your point stop exaggerating. And not everyone is an altaholic either.</p>

Yimway
11-09-2011, 01:56 PM
<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have never come out of one PR run with that much plat including transmutes... while I do sort of agree with your point stop exaggerating. And not everyone is an altaholic either.</p></blockquote><p>That is my average take soloing it after mutables.  I've been lucky and seen 150 and I've seen as little as 80.</p><p>But that is soloing it, not sharing anything.  Perhaps I'm finding a better market on the mana's or resulting products on my server than you are.</p>

Lempo
11-09-2011, 02:00 PM
<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have never come out of one PR run with that much plat including transmutes... while I do sort of agree with your point stop exaggerating. And not everyone is an altaholic either.</p></blockquote><p>24 plat per chest, 5 chests solo is 120 plat, instead of berating and trolling someone how about thinking about what you say before you say something calling them a liar. It varies with runs but it is preety much 120 plat available in each run on average.</p>

Wurm
11-09-2011, 02:01 PM
<p>If I could rez the healer I'd solo it as well <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Wurm
11-09-2011, 02:02 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have never come out of one PR run with that much plat including transmutes... while I do sort of agree with your point stop exaggerating. And not everyone is an altaholic either.</p></blockquote><p>24 plat per chest, 5 chests solo is 120 plat, instead of berating and trolling someone how about thinking about what you say before you say something calling them a liar. It varies with runs but it is preety much 120 plat available in each run on average.</p></blockquote><p>Only if you can solo it. And the majority can't.</p>

Lempo
11-09-2011, 02:04 PM
<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If I could rez the healer I'd solo it as well <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>You can have someone do that for you and leave the zone not locking them and solo it from there.</p>

MystsofLedge12
11-09-2011, 02:11 PM
<p>I was making an observation,  I am guilty of running PR with 2 others for the plat splits, I've been in groups selling the loot... I do however probably spend too much on Alts but who doesn't</p>

Glenolas
11-09-2011, 02:14 PM
<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The easiest way to get plat out of the game is to introduce something that players will value which is only sold by NPC's.  It seems pretty simple really.</p></blockquote><p>It certainly is, but SJ's main job is to make sure those become SC.   EQ2x was instituted just so "something that players will value"  can be sold for real cash, and the main effort since then is trying to sneak as much of EQ2x into the main game as possible without creating a stampede to the door.</p>

Wurm
11-09-2011, 02:15 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If I could rez the healer I'd solo it as well <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>You can have someone do that for you and leave the zone not locking them and solo it from there.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah sure... plz rez the healer and then GET OUT... thats not how I play. If I take a healer in there to rez, then I share the spoils.</p><p>Also most people don't have the class or the gear to do that zone solo. Atan does and I'm sure my Paladin could, but try it with a dirge or other support class. So figure in two people at least, more than likely three.</p><p>So I didn't berate him. He wasn't speaking for the majority when he made it sound like a cake-walk when its anything but.</p>

Glenolas
11-09-2011, 02:23 PM
<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have never come out of one PR run with that much plat including transmutes... while I do sort of agree with your point stop exaggerating. And not everyone is an altaholic either.</p></blockquote><p>24 plat per chest, 5 chests solo is 120 plat, instead of berating and trolling someone how about thinking about what you say before you say something calling them a liar. It varies with runs but it is preety much 120 plat available in each run on average.</p></blockquote><p>Only if you can solo it. And the majority can't.</p></blockquote><p>Au contraire.  </p><p>If you own multiple accounts it doesn't matter if you solo, duo, trio, or 6 box, you still get 120 plat.</p>

Wurm
11-09-2011, 02:25 PM
<p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have never come out of one PR run with that much plat including transmutes... while I do sort of agree with your point stop exaggerating. And not everyone is an altaholic either.</p></blockquote><p>24 plat per chest, 5 chests solo is 120 plat, instead of berating and trolling someone how about thinking about what you say before you say something calling them a liar. It varies with runs but it is preety much 120 plat available in each run on average.</p></blockquote><p>Only if you can solo it. And the majority can't.</p></blockquote><p>Au contraire.  </p><p>If you own multiple accounts it doesn't matter if you solo, duo, trio, or 6 box, you still get 120 plat.</p></blockquote><p>Also not the majority...</p>

Trynt
11-09-2011, 02:29 PM
<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>He wasn't speaking for the majority when he made it sound like a cake-walk when its anything but.</p></blockquote><p>If that's an example of what people are taking away from his post, then people need to keep their eyes on the ball.</p><p>The most important part of his post was...</p><blockquote><p><span >The inflation is due to trivial zones providing too much plat rewards...</span></p><p>...<span >The flaw in this was putting static coin amounts in those chests.</span></p></blockquote><p><span ><p>...and he's correct.  Granted, that's not the only way to make oodles of plat quickly (without buying it), but certainly one of the most popular.</p></span></p>

Brigh
11-09-2011, 02:44 PM
<p><cite>IceStormx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brigh wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The game needs to be designed from the ground-up or large game-changing mechanics that you know will never happen be put into place. Things like items disappearing from the world, being created by players/npc cooperation, etc. When most of the items people use and wear come from infinite free sources and not from players that need consumable products, you will always have large inflation problems on servers the older they get.</blockquote><p>A cap on coin a toon is allowed to carry and bank and broker would take care of inflation forever</p></blockquote><p>Since you can have unlimited character slots people would, under current mechanics, keep banking alts then.</p>

Yimway
11-09-2011, 02:47 PM
<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So I didn't berate him. He wasn't speaking for the majority when he made it sound like a cake-walk when its anything but.</p></blockquote><p>Soloing isn't a cake walk but its doable on some classes as you stated.</p><p>Boxing it is easier, having a single partner is even easier, and if you still have issues trio it at worst.  But its still tons of plat running into the market that is trivial to gain.  My point is, those raid chest plat rewards should be capped at value x participants, or drop coin items similar to how shards drop.</p><p>Otherwise you just run the issue as expansions come out more and more raid zones become soloable/duoable. I fully recongize I'm on the extreme side currently as I can run that zone 2x / day 7 days a week if so inclined.  But I can see as expansions continue to roll out and people get more and more gear, the number of raid chests that can be triod quickly will grow to a point that the majority will have access to the same trivial revenue model I already have access to.</p><p>While some say the issue isn't enough to spend plat on, and I agree more could be there, eliminating the trivial supply will help normalize things over time.  Unlike a real economy, the game economy deteriates over time as people drift out of the game not transfering their assets to other participants.</p>

Lempo
11-09-2011, 02:55 PM
<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah sure... plz rez the healer and then GET OUT... thats not how I play. If I take a healer in there to rez, then I share the spoils.</p><p>Also most people don't have the class or the gear to do that zone solo. Atan does and I'm sure my Paladin could, but try it with a dirge or other support class. So figure in two people at least, more than likely three.</p><p>So I didn't berate him. He wasn't speaking for the majority when he made it sound like a cake-walk when its anything but.</p></blockquote><p>Great job of completely twisting the context of what I said. I specifically noted that the healer would not be locked to the zone, hence they could do it as well solo or with a group, so find a healer that solos it or runs it with a group regularly and have them start the zone up for you, tip them if it makes you feel better. In no way did I even suggest grab a healer and telling him to get bent after he did his work, just like with you saying Atan was making it out like it was a cake walk. I don't know if you are either being intentionally obtuse, or trolling here, I just would like to think that people are not that thick with such limited info.</p>

TwistedFaith
11-09-2011, 02:56 PM
<p>EQ2 has no plat sinks, it is as simple as that. It doesn't take a genius to work this out. I cannot remember the last time I bought anything from a NPC merchant.</p><p>The game should have NPCs selling mounts for 1k, 5k, 10k or even appearence gear for 1000's of plat. I used to farm plat a long time ago, then I realised that plat itself is worthless in EQ2. I raid for my gear, master spells can be researched which leaves me sitting on 25k+ plat and nothing to buy.</p><p>Even if I gave away all my plat, it still doesn't leave the game it just gets transfered. What is needed are huge plat sinks from NPC that give items/effects etc that players actually want.</p><p>Of course SOE will never kill the golden barbie doll goose that is marketplace so this will never happen. I fully expect to see people paying 500p+ for a master spell with the next level cap raise if there are still people playing eq2 that is.</p>

Yimway
11-09-2011, 03:00 PM
<p><cite>TwistedFaith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Of course SOE will never kill the golden barbie doll goose that is marketplace so this will never happen. I fully expect to see people paying 500p+ for a master spell with the next level cap raise if there are still people playing eq2 that is.</p></blockquote><p>Considering we paid 200+ on masters the last level cap raise, sure 500 seems likely.  Granted thats the population that wanted them first for that shelled it out.</p>

Haciv
11-09-2011, 03:03 PM
<p>Inflation on Permafrost is out of control with some stuff.  Whenever people really want plat they don't run PR / SoH, they just sell SC or time cards.  Last week there was a guy who was selling the Wal-Mart time cards for 500p ea, and he had 24 for sale.  Within a few days he sold em... that was a fast 12,000p for him.</p>

Glenolas
11-09-2011, 03:21 PM
<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite> </cite></p><p>Au contraire.  </p><p>If you own multiple accounts it doesn't matter if you solo, duo, trio, or 6 box, you still get 120 plat.</p></blockquote><p>Also not the majority...</p></blockquote><p>I'd be careful before I went out on that limb.  </p><p>If you say "the majority of account holders do not have multiple accounts, you are likely right.</p><p>If you are saying, the majority of the toons logged in are not capable of being boxed at that moment (single player operator), you are likely incorrect.</p><p>Edited for clarity.</p>

Wurm
11-09-2011, 03:36 PM
<p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite> </cite></p><p>Au contraire.  </p><p>If you own multiple accounts it doesn't matter if you solo, duo, trio, or 6 box, you still get 120 plat.</p></blockquote><p>Also not the majority...</p></blockquote><p>I'd be careful before I went out on that limb.  </p><p>If you say "the majority of account holders do not have multiple accounts, you are likely right.</p><p>If you are saying, the majority of the toons logged in are not capable of being boxed at that moment (single player operator), you are likely incorrect.</p><p>Edited for clarity.</p></blockquote><p>To box requires more than one account... so your point is?</p>

Yimway
11-09-2011, 03:39 PM
<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To box requires more than one account... so your point is?</p></blockquote><p>I think he was insinuating if you added up the sum total of box accounts, it might equal the sum total of main accounts.</p><p>The number of people like me with more than 2 offsetting those with only 1 maybe.</p><p>I'm not sure there are quite that many, but there are an aweful lot of them out there.</p>

Glenolas
11-09-2011, 03:45 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To box requires more than one account... so your point is?</p></blockquote><p>I think he was insinuating if you added up the sum total of box accounts, it might equal the sum total of main accounts.</p><p>The number of people like me with more than 2 offsetting those with only 1 maybe.</p><p>I'm not sure there are quite that many, but there are an aweful lot of them out there.</p></blockquote><p>You broke the code.   The last info I had was about 35% of the game has multiple accounts.  That doesn't even account for those who have access to other accounts not their own.</p><p>If they only have 2 accounts each,  then they represent 70 toons logged in, with no more the 65 possible solo toons when the median statistic is logged in.    I hedged slightly because the statistic on log ins might be running something other than 65/35 at that particular moment.</p><p>However, there are many of the 35% with more than 2 accounts.   So most of the time the boxing accounts are the majority of the log ins.</p>

Crismorn
11-09-2011, 03:48 PM
<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have never come out of one PR run with that much plat including transmutes... while I do sort of agree with your point stop exaggerating. And not everyone is an altaholic either.</p></blockquote><p>24 plat per chest, 5 chests solo is 120 plat, instead of berating and trolling someone how about thinking about what you say before you say something calling them a liar. It varies with runs but it is preety much 120 plat available in each run on average.</p></blockquote><p>Only if you can solo it. And the majority can't.</p></blockquote><p>Pretty much everyone in t3 from SF or better can solo PR, maybe not the deathtouch mob but the other 3 easily.</p>

Glenolas
11-09-2011, 03:58 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have never come out of one PR run with that much plat including transmutes... while I do sort of agree with your point stop exaggerating. And not everyone is an altaholic either.</p></blockquote><p>24 plat per chest, 5 chests solo is 120 plat, instead of berating and trolling someone how about thinking about what you say before you say something calling them a liar. It varies with runs but it is preety much 120 plat available in each run on average.</p></blockquote><p>Only if you can solo it. And the majority can't.</p></blockquote><p>Pretty much everyone in t3 from SF or better can solo PR, maybe not the deathtouch mob but the other 3 easily.</p></blockquote><p>well, you also have to avoid being charmed by the mage in the 5th fight,  so you do that group in something different than the normal order.</p>

Yimway
11-09-2011, 04:00 PM
<p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>well, you also have to avoid being charmed by the mage in the 5th fight,  so you do that group in something different than the normal order.</p></blockquote><p>Or just have a way of breaking the charm.</p>

Glenolas
11-09-2011, 04:06 PM
<p><cite>Haciv wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Inflation on Permafrost is out of control with some stuff.  Whenever people really want plat they don't run PR / SoH, they just sell SC or time cards.  Last week there was a guy who was selling the Wal-Mart time cards for 500p ea, and he had 24 for sale.  Within a few days he sold em... that was a fast 12,000p for him.</p></blockquote><p>Technically this doesn't contribute to inflation.  It just shifts plat around. The plat still came into the game the standard way, it just changed hands via the SOE created plat for cash exchange.    When your example guy spends his 12000 plat, it won't leave the game either.   Just go back to the guy (or a placeholder) who sold it in the first place.</p>

Glenolas
11-09-2011, 04:12 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>well, you also have to avoid being charmed by the mage in the 5th fight,  so you do that group in something different than the normal order.</p></blockquote><p>Or just have a way of breaking the charm.</p></blockquote><p>Right.   Before the reset,  caused by there being no one on your side remaining in the fight.  (See the common complaint about soloing the Queen in Chardok).   </p><p>That means one is paying attention, which I confess I don't do well  when chasing the mage as a target thru all the taunt offs from B and the frogs.</p>

Yimway
11-09-2011, 04:14 PM
<p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Technically this doesn't contribute to inflation.  It just shifts plat around. The plat still came into the game the standard way, it just changed hands via the SOE created plat for cash exchange.    When your example guy spends his 12000 plat, it won't leave the game either.   Just go back to the guy (or a placeholder) who sold it in the first place.</p></blockquote><p>Bingo, the easiest way to fight inflation in game is to limit the amount of new coin entering the environment.  Something SoE has direct control over. </p><p>Doing so will allow the traps for removing plat to function as well as the natural attrition of players leaving the environment without transferring their wealth to others.  A dynamic that is a bit different than how real world economies function.  MMO's have sizable wealth just vanish from the environment, much more so than real systems.</p><p>You could add plat sinks to the game as others suggest, but I don't think it will be effective at fighting inflation as it will only serve to add more desire to taking advantage of the easy ways of introducing more coin to the system.  My bet is adding a plat sync will not actually move the inflation down, it could only at best pause the inflationary force.</p><p>P.S. - The thought of actually having controls of an economy like soe does and experimenting with adding different types of controls and observing their impact really turns me on.  I'd seriously be interested in having that much power for academic experimentation</p>

Wurm
11-09-2011, 04:15 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have never come out of one PR run with that much plat including transmutes... while I do sort of agree with your point stop exaggerating. And not everyone is an altaholic either.</p></blockquote><p>24 plat per chest, 5 chests solo is 120 plat, instead of berating and trolling someone how about thinking about what you say before you say something calling them a liar. It varies with runs but it is preety much 120 plat available in each run on average.</p></blockquote><p>Only if you can solo it. And the majority can't.</p></blockquote><p>Pretty much everyone in t3 from SF or better can solo PR, maybe not the deathtouch mob but the other 3 easily.</p></blockquote><p>t3... hmmmm. Once again not the majority. Or is everyone boxing raiders now?</p>

Glenolas
11-09-2011, 04:29 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Bingo, the easiest way to fight inflation in game is to limit the amount of new coin entering the environment.  Something SoE has direct control over. </p></blockquote><p>If there is a desire to control inflation, I believe limiting the amount entering the is the <em>ONLY</em> way to do it.</p><p>As you pointed out, plat sinks without limiting the amount entering only generate more farming.     Some people leave the game and take their plat with them, as a hedge against coming back.   Others, however, cash out via the plat farmers, who in turn return it to the game.   So leaving is not a perfect sink.    </p><p>SOE has a daily take on the amount of plat in the game,  so can regulate it if they chose.   As you've told me in posts past, I wouldn't hold my breath.</p>

Snached
11-09-2011, 04:42 PM
<p><span style="line-height: 115%; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">This may be the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish but other MMO’s have been known to wipe the broker clean with the hope of resetting its economic state.</span></p>

Yimway
11-09-2011, 05:06 PM
<p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> As you've told me in posts past, I wouldn't hold my breath.</p></blockquote><p>touche</p>

Rijacki
11-09-2011, 08:51 PM
<p><cite>TwistedFaith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>EQ2 has no plat sinks, it is as simple as that. It doesn't take a genius to work this out. I cannot remember the last time I bought anything from a NPC merchant.</p><p>The game should have NPCs selling mounts for 1k, 5k, 10k or even appearence gear for 1000's of plat. I used to farm plat a long time ago, then I realised that plat itself is worthless in EQ2. I raid for my gear, master spells can be researched which leaves me sitting on 25k+ plat and nothing to buy.</p><p>Even if I gave away all my plat, it still doesn't leave the game it just gets transfered. What is needed are huge plat sinks from NPC that give items/effects etc that players actually want.</p></blockquote><p>THIS is the problem and the solution. Nothing more and nothing less.</p><p>Of course, if they had expensive items sold by NPCs, even if they were pure fluff, there would be a plethora of 'new' players and those incapable of comprehending how to make plat IN-game complaining that they NEED the NPC sold items and SOE is 'forcing' them to go to 3rd party plat brokers and/or that anyone capable of buying the items must have bought the plat from a 3rd party. (Kinda like the insinuations in this thread already)</p>

Eugam
11-10-2011, 05:14 AM
<p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>TwistedFaith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>EQ2 has no plat sinks, it is as simple as that. It doesn't take a genius to work this out. I cannot remember the last time I bought anything from a NPC merchant.</p><p>The game should have NPCs selling mounts for 1k, 5k, 10k or even appearence gear for 1000's of plat. I used to farm plat a long time ago, then I realised that plat itself is worthless in EQ2. I raid for my gear, master spells can be researched which leaves me sitting on 25k+ plat and nothing to buy.</p><p>Even if I gave away all my plat, it still doesn't leave the game it just gets transfered. What is needed are huge plat sinks from NPC that give items/effects etc that players actually want.</p></blockquote><p>THIS is the problem and the solution. Nothing more and nothing less.</p><p>Of course, if they had expensive items sold by NPCs, even if they were pure fluff, there would be a plethora of 'new' players and those incapable of comprehending how to make plat IN-game complaining that they NEED the NPC sold items and SOE is 'forcing' them to go to 3rd party plat brokers and/or that anyone capable of buying the items must have bought the plat from a 3rd party. (Kinda like the insinuations in this thread already)</p></blockquote><p>Hahaha <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Thats so blind, i cant belief it.</p><p>Whenever a real inflation has hit real economy luxury and elitism have been the signs before, while and after the breakdown. But never, ever has luxury and elitism solved the problem. Roaring 20ies anyone ?</p><p>Another sign is the rise of a placeholder currency. Booze while prohibition, cocaine in 1925 Berlin, art, SC on Norrath.</p><p>Usually a lot of people die then, because the elite starts to destory stuff to raise the values again. In a game this means exodus and broken mechanics.</p><p>One of the few solutions would be to recognize again that money is a tool to make trading wares easier. Else we d have to trade two chickens for a six-pack in the super market. It is required to understand that the tool to trade wares never can be a ware itself. Else its going to inflate. Such requires some sort of mental development though <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p>

Crismorn
11-10-2011, 05:46 AM
<p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have never come out of one PR run with that much plat including transmutes... while I do sort of agree with your point stop exaggerating. And not everyone is an altaholic either.</p></blockquote><p>24 plat per chest, 5 chests solo is 120 plat, instead of berating and trolling someone how about thinking about what you say before you say something calling them a liar. It varies with runs but it is preety much 120 plat available in each run on average.</p></blockquote><p>Only if you can solo it. And the majority can't.</p></blockquote><p>Pretty much everyone in t3 from SF or better can solo PR, maybe not the deathtouch mob but the other 3 easily.</p></blockquote><p>well, you also have to avoid being charmed by the mage in the 5th fight,  so you do that group in something different than the normal order.</p></blockquote><p>You cant get to him without killimg the Deathtouch mob is why I didnt bother mentioning it.</p>

Crismorn
11-10-2011, 05:56 AM
<p>This is just not a problem that SoE ever has to deal with, even new players can mine rares, farm shinies and sell lvl 10 treasure items.</p>

Malleria
11-10-2011, 06:23 AM
<p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>TwistedFaith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>EQ2 has no plat sinks, it is as simple as that. It doesn't take a genius to work this out. I cannot remember the last time I bought anything from a NPC merchant.</p><p>The game should have NPCs selling mounts for 1k, 5k, 10k or even appearence gear for 1000's of plat. I used to farm plat a long time ago, then I realised that plat itself is worthless in EQ2. I raid for my gear, master spells can be researched which leaves me sitting on 25k+ plat and nothing to buy.</p><p>Even if I gave away all my plat, it still doesn't leave the game it just gets transfered. What is needed are huge plat sinks from NPC that give items/effects etc that players actually want.</p></blockquote><p>THIS is the problem and the solution. Nothing more and nothing less.</p><p>Of course, if they had expensive items sold by NPCs, even if they were pure fluff, there would be a plethora of 'new' players and those incapable of comprehending how to make plat IN-game complaining that they NEED the NPC sold items and SOE is 'forcing' them to go to 3rd party plat brokers and/or that anyone capable of buying the items must have bought the plat from a 3rd party. (Kinda like the insinuations in this thread already)</p></blockquote><p>The problem isn't in the long time players that have mountains of platinum sitting in their banks not being spent. The problem is the players who spend plat like water because it has no value to them, which drives up prices of auctions. These are the kind of players who either mass farm platinum constantly, or acquire it through less than honorable means. And because it has no value to them, they'll simply buy up all your fluff items and continue to acquire more.</p><p>The only way to stop that kind of inflation is to cut off the source of platinum, not provide more things for them to spend it on.</p>

Valdaglerion
11-10-2011, 10:55 AM
<p><cite>IceStormx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brigh wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The game needs to be designed from the ground-up or large game-changing mechanics that you know will never happen be put into place. Things like items disappearing from the world, being created by players/npc cooperation, etc. When most of the items people use and wear come from infinite free sources and not from players that need consumable products, you will always have large inflation problems on servers the older they get.</blockquote><p>A cap on coin a toon is allowed to carry and bank and broker would take care of inflation forever</p></blockquote><p>Caps at bankers and brokers would provide motivation for people to stop playing when they hit the cap.</p><p>However . . . one sink that could be instituted and would ease some of the farming and take coin from the game. . .</p><p><ul><li>Revert to using coin weight</li><li>Revert to coin not auto converting )reach 100 copper it changes to 1 silver, etc) coin stays as it is and adds to the weight you carry.</li><li>Institute banking fees to keep your coin safe. Other games use these as sinks. So you go to the banker and they take 10% as a deposit fee. So that is a nice sink to remove 10% of the coin from the game.</li><li>Randomize how coin drops in instances so that it is not always in the largest denomination. Maybe 6p drops as 6p, maybe it drops as 6000g or 60000s or 600000c or some variation there of. </li></ul><div>To account for imbalance and provide motivation to use the bankers - add a death penalty whereby you lose an increasing % of coin on your person when you die. Consider it coin the mob strips from you and carries off when they kill you.</div><div><ul><li>Start at 5% loss and add % for each additional death so that in the event you suffer 10 deaths without repair and you break your gear, you end up literally broke. Broken gear and no coin on you for repair.</li></ul><div>That would add another much needed sink. People would not carry such vaste amounts on their person and subsequently the banking fees would produce a better sink.</div></div><div></div><div></div></p>

Mosha D'Khan
11-10-2011, 11:31 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>IceStormx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brigh wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The game needs to be designed from the ground-up or large game-changing mechanics that you know will never happen be put into place. Things like items disappearing from the world, being created by players/npc cooperation, etc. When most of the items people use and wear come from infinite free sources and not from players that need consumable products, you will always have large inflation problems on servers the older they get.</blockquote><p>A cap on coin a toon is allowed to carry and bank and broker would take care of inflation forever</p></blockquote><p>Caps at bankers and brokers would provide motivation for people to stop playing when they hit the cap.</p><p>However . . . one sink that could be instituted and would ease some of the farming and take coin from the game. . .</p><ul><li>Revert to using coin weight</li><li>Revert to coin not auto converting )reach 100 copper it changes to 1 silver, etc) coin stays as it is and adds to the weight you carry.</li><li>Institute banking fees to keep your coin safe. Other games use these as sinks. So you go to the banker and they take 10% as a deposit fee. So that is a nice sink to remove 10% of the coin from the game.</li><li>Randomize how coin drops in instances so that it is not always in the largest denomination. Maybe 6p drops as 6p, maybe it drops as 6000g or 60000s or 600000c or some variation there of. </li></ul><div>To account for imbalance and provide motivation to use the bankers - add a death penalty whereby you lose an increasing % of coin on your person when you die. Consider it coin the mob strips from you and carries off when they kill you.</div><div><ul><li>Start at 5% loss and add % for each additional death so that in the event you suffer 10 deaths without repair and you break your gear, you end up literally broke. Broken gear and no coin on you for repair.</li></ul><div>That would add another much needed sink. People would not carry such vaste amounts on their person and subsequently the banking fees would produce a better sink.</div></div><div></div><div></div></blockquote><p>would just mail it to my self for the what 50c and then when i needed money i would just take it out and remail my self there is so many ways around this the problem is already out of control. no way you can fix it now. you can just go farm zone on several toons, i know when i do a plat run i hit soh, pr, VP and then a few other zones and after selling the muteables and after totaling up everything from chest and broker stuff i end up with about 1000p for like 2 to 3 hours of doing nothing. you can charge that 10% all you want but that would still be a 900p gain which in the past was crazy to come by.</p><p>the real problem is that they keeps increasing gear like crazy. last xpac you would sit at 100 crit not you are at like 310 or higher. cb and pot was like 90s and now it is over 200. all the old content is made trivial and solo able so you can do them for the plat they have. only way to fix things would be to charge more for repairs and get rid of plat from old zones but then the game is just going to die because there would be nothing left to do but raid and maybe drunder zones.</p><p>problem is not people with too much plat it is that game is to trivial to get plat. make it a challenge again and not oh i feel like soloing old epics for tons of plat</p>

Yimway
11-10-2011, 01:36 PM
<p><cite>Malleria wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The only way to stop that kind of inflation is to cut off the source of platinum, not provide more things for them to spend it on.</p></blockquote><p>If you don't limit the source, you will never diminish the wealth of the top 5% in game.</p><p>And its not cause they're doing something unscrupulous to acquire that wealth as others stated, they're just grinding raids very successfully and snagging 1000's of plat (in some cases 10's of 1000's) each month in the guild split.</p><p>I doubt anyone else in the top 5% is getting the wealth any other way.  As there are ways to be very profitable in other ventures in the game, none of them amass wealth as fast as selling raid drops.</p><p>Its not hard to understand when each item your raid doesn't need sells for what equates to 1-4weeks of farming PR by the 'eq2 working class'.  You consider 20+ (or more) items being sold by a guild on farm nights and 1-4 weeks of work for each item sold, you can see how a small group of players benefits from the 1000's of hours of effort put in by those who can't manage to get those items by killing the mobs.</p><p>Removing the source of the easy plat, will kill supply quickly.  Sure there will be a few weeks of the 'haves' buying things for each other for their alts, but that market will quickly saturate and prices of items will floor.  So much so it might not be 'worth their time' to continue to sell them and farm them.</p><p>Which leads me to question, if SoE really understands all these machinations, isn't it in their best interests to keep the inflationary pressures in the game.  Do they understand that?  Do they do it intentionally?  Or is it just dumb luck?  I would argue that a constructed devaluation of plat is an important part of a games design as it insures that you will eventually have to go back to earning to stay ahead.  And it keeps a motivation for everyone doing all that grinding to just keep on grinding.</p><p>Without the inflationary trend, the haves wouldn't find the value in selling their excess rewards.  If you consider if auctions devalued by 80%, would those with 20k want to take the time to sell an item for 50?  Without the items, do the have nots still play the game if they can't do trivial work to achieve stellar rewards?</p>

Nrgy
11-10-2011, 03:07 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Malleria wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The only way to stop that kind of inflation is to cut off the source of platinum, not provide more things for them to spend it on.</p></blockquote><p>If you don't limit the source, you will never diminish the wealth of the top 5% in game.</p><p>And its not cause they're doing something unscrupulous to acquire that wealth as others stated, they're just grinding raids very successfully and snagging 1000's of plat (in some cases 10's of 1000's) each month in the guild split.</p><p>I doubt anyone else in the top 5% is getting the wealth any other way.  As there are ways to be very profitable in other ventures in the game, none of them amass wealth as fast as selling raid drops.</p><p>Its not hard to understand when each item your raid doesn't need sells for what equates to 1-4weeks of farming PR by the 'eq2 working class'.  You consider 20+ (or more) items being sold by a guild on farm nights and 1-4 weeks of work for each item sold, you can see how a small group of players benefits from the 1000's of hours of effort put in by those who can't manage to get those items by killing the mobs.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Removing the source </span>of the easy plat, will kill supply quickly.  Sure there will be a few weeks of the 'haves' buying things for each other for their alts, but that market will quickly saturate and prices of items will floor.  So much so it might not be 'worth their time' to continue to sell them and farm them.</p><p>Which leads me to question, if SoE really understands all these machinations, isn't it in their best interests to keep the inflationary pressures in the game.  Do they understand that?  Do they do it intentionally?  Or is it just dumb luck?  I would argue that a constructed devaluation of plat is an important part of a games design as it insures that you will eventually have to go back to earning to stay ahead.  And it keeps a motivation for everyone doing all that grinding to just keep on grinding.</p><p>Without the inflationary trend, the haves wouldn't find the value in selling their excess rewards.  If you consider if auctions devalued by 80%, would those with 20k want to take the time to sell an item for 50?  Without the items, do the have nots still play the game if they can't do trivial work to achieve stellar rewards?</p></blockquote><p>Unless the source of the trade wasn't the plat but the gear being purchased... removing the ability to SLR pretty much destroys any need to have plat in the first place.  And by your own logic, if players couldn't buy loot with plat made by 'eq2 working class' there would be no reason to farm the gear in the first place.  Unless, of course, the farmer actually cuse use the gear they take part in farming.</p><p>But, we already know some peoples viewpoint on that issue and how some feel that without the ability to distribute loot "at will", the game becomes far to restrictive under the current mechanics schema and there are far too many ways, some use in the past, that could easily circumvent those types of gates even if in pace.  I'm just thinking you cannot advocate one without advocating the other.  Farming is farming, regardless if its plat or gear, and farming doesn't consume anything it only adds to the environment.  Plat sinks primarily effect those without the plats, those with plats are hardly effected and in actuality become richer because the people beneath them become poorer.</p>

Yimway
11-10-2011, 03:48 PM
<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Unless the source of the trade wasn't the plat but the gear being purchased... removing the ability to SLR pretty much destroys any need to have plat in the first place.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, I had a paragraph about that orriginally, but I removed it cause that always starts that same old arguement, and we all know how it ends.  In terms of this discussion, if you remove SLR, you remove the entire need for an eq2 economy, as everyone will have all the coin they need to get the few things left in game that have a cost.</p><p>To one of your other points, people will still have to farm alot of that content anyway due to rare boss loots and if SLR was somehow removed most of the gear dropped by the better raid guilds would just rot.  That too I don't think is a recipe for a successful game.</p>

NardacMM
11-10-2011, 04:02 PM
<p>OCCUPY NORRATH!!! 75% of the players have 85% of the wealth! Who cares if SLR pants are selling for 1300p. If you can't afford it, then don't buy it. If you can, then do. Having played EQ1 since its inception, I must say that inflation in EQ2 is MUCH more tame. EQ2 actually has a system for taking money OUT of the game. Things that you <em>need </em>(like food, drink, arrows) have not gone up substantially. Other things that you <em>want</em> like shinies and pants are priced based on supply or demand.</p><p>What's the problem?  Inflation on core goods (which is how inflation is measured in the real world) has gone up only marginally.</p><p>One thing I will say is that I think devs made a mistake in offering these vet reward "free" houses.  Housing was the best way to take money away from players.</p>

d1anaw
11-10-2011, 04:03 PM
<p>All of you who are complaining about having too much plat and nothing to spend it on, feel free to send it to me. I never have any because I can ALWAYS find something to spend it on.</p>

Onorem
11-10-2011, 04:21 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>... EQ2 actually has a system for taking money OUT of the game. Things that you <em>need </em>(like food, drink, arrows) have not gone up substantially. ..</p></blockquote><p>Food, drink, and arrows don't take money out of the game. They just shift money between players...or do you actually use NPC bought food, drink, and arrows?</p>