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Kringus
11-01-2011, 08:08 PM
<p>Was the 48 hour grace period on looting removed?  Just ran an instance and none of the items had it, and couldn't trade items after looting.</p><p>I'm hoping I'm just bugged.</p>

Crismorn
11-01-2011, 08:37 PM
<p>This is what happens when SoE tries to fix one simple bug that doesnt even matter.</p>

gimme
11-02-2011, 08:48 AM
<p>Had this problem on x4 raid loot last night with guild, all got back to GH to bid dkp/share it out amongst raid members and were snafoo'd!!</p><p>We just assumed patch messed it up and there would be a re-patch today.</p>

Raknid
11-02-2011, 09:52 AM
<p><cite>gimme wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Had this problem on x4 raid loot last night with guild, all got back to GH to bid dkp/share it out amongst raid members and were snafoo'd!!</p><p>We just assumed patch messed it up and there would be a re-patch today.</p></blockquote><p>Wait. So something changed on a build and made it live? I wonder if it was in the test build? Can't be; you know that build was thoroughly ran through the gamut on test. (lol)</p><p>Just petition and get a GM to divvie it up for you all. It is a shame that the Devs create more work for the CS team by not thoroughly testing a build prior to pushing it live. <sigh></p>

Miapa
11-02-2011, 01:15 PM
<p>I can't believe the sad state that this game is becomming.  There is <strong>zero </strong>quality assurance and testing.  Giving the dev's the ability to set game changes directly to Live is a terrible idea.  Why even have a test server if patches are pushed directly to Live without hitting test server?  Actually, I guess the reason is because feedback from the Test server (when they actually tested patches) is ignored.</p>

CheezeBurgerAnimal
11-02-2011, 01:31 PM
<p>It appears only the text on the item description is missing. We were able to trade X4 loot amoung team members last night.</p>

urgthock
11-02-2011, 04:52 PM
<p><cite>CheezeBurgerAnimal wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It appears only the text on the item description is missing. We were able to trade X4 loot amoung team members last night.</p></blockquote><p>I tried to trade a neck item that dropped in Ascent last night to the troub and kept getting an error saying that it was not tradeable. So, while I can't say anything about raid gear, Heroic gear (or at the very least that one particular heroic gear drop) is not able to be traded anymore.</p>

Crismorn
11-02-2011, 07:07 PM
<p>SoE tried to fix Contested Kael quest pieces from being traded between group members and thought it was so important and such a huge issue that breaking the entire ability to trade any type of dropped loot would be an acceptable loss, or they just another half job as per usual</p>

Gilli
11-03-2011, 10:03 AM
<p>I want loot trading back <span style="text-decoration: underline;">now</span>.  This feature really took the drama out of loot drops for us by letting people really think about what they wanted once the afterglow and loot hypnosis had worn off.  So many times I've seen stuff swap around during and after we run zones... and with smiles all around.  Taking it away unannounced was very rude indeed - naturally we only discovered it once we discovered something important enough to trade and we couldn't do it.  If we'd known beforehand, at least we would have been more cautious about it!</p>

urgthock
11-03-2011, 10:28 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I want loot trading back <span style="text-decoration: underline;">now</span>.  This feature really took the drama out of loot drops for us by letting people really think about what they wanted once the afterglow and loot hypnosis had worn off.  So many times I've seen stuff swap around during and after we run zones... and with smiles all around.  Taking it away unannounced was very rude indeed - naturally we only discovered it once we discovered something important enough to trade and we couldn't do it.  If we'd known beforehand, at least we would have been more cautious about it!</p></blockquote><p>While I agree that loot trading should be re-instituted, I was able to petition to have the neck item I mentioned in my previous post given to the troub. It's a bit of a hassle but obviously it is an error since a GM made the trade for me. So, at least there is a workaround, albeit one we shouldn't have to deal with.</p>

Nrgy
11-03-2011, 10:32 AM
<p>Is it possible that the Tradable Loot feature is going to replace the 25% XP bonus in the Dungeon Finder to help it hit critical mass w/o making  the DF use internal gear scores to balance groups or making it cross-server?  Too bad raid zones or build-your-own-group templates aren't part of the DF tool yet.</p><p>Or is this "Feature" going to become part of the AoD "Feature" package?</p>

Nrgy
11-03-2011, 10:35 AM
<p><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I want loot trading back <span style="text-decoration: underline;">now</span>.  This feature really took the drama out of loot drops for us by letting people really think about what they wanted once the afterglow and loot hypnosis had worn off.  So many times I've seen stuff swap around during and after we run zones... and with smiles all around.  Taking it away unannounced was very rude indeed - naturally we only discovered it once we discovered something important enough to trade and we couldn't do it.  If we'd known beforehand, at least we would have been more cautious about it!</p></blockquote><p>While I agree that loot trading should be re-instituted, I was able to petition to have the neck item I mentioned in my previous post given to the troub. It's a bit of a hassle but <span style="color: #ff0000;">obviously it is an error </span>since a GM made the trade for me. So, at least there is a workaround, albeit one we shouldn't have to deal with.</p></blockquote><p>I haven't seen, heard or read anything on the Official forums or anywhere else saying it is not working as SOE intended now or that it is being "fixed" or even scheduled to be "fixed".  I'm sure GM's will get a bit tire of distributing 100's of loot items a night.</p>

Raknid
11-03-2011, 10:41 AM
<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I haven't seen, heard or read anything on the Official forums or anywhere else saying it is not working as SOE intended now or that it is being "fixed" or even scheduled to be "fixed".  I'm sure GM's will get a bit tire of distributing 100's of loot items a night.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed. They responded to the adornment slot on wand issue and said it was a bug, but have been silent on this. They either don't know it exists, know it exists but don't care to tell us, or know it exists and is not a bug and wont tell us that either.</p><p>Any way though, that they have been silent on thsi issue now for two days is a little unsettling.</p>

urgthock
11-03-2011, 10:49 AM
<p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I haven't seen, heard or read anything on the Official forums or anywhere else saying it is not working as SOE intended now or that it is being "fixed" or even scheduled to be "fixed".  I'm sure GM's will get a bit tire of distributing 100's of loot items a night.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed. They responded to the adornment slot on wand issue and said it was a bug, but have been silent on this. They either don't know it exists, know it exists but don't care to tell us, or know it exists and is not a bug and wont tell us that either.</p><p>Any way though, that they have been silent on thsi issue now for two days is a little unsettling.</p></blockquote><p>Well, the only reason I stated it was obviously an error is simply because the GM made the trade for me manually. I would guess that if SOE had changed their stance on this matter, they would have instructed their GMs not to make these trades manually. Of course, I may be giving SOE management too much credit?</p>

Nrgy
11-03-2011, 11:12 AM
<p>WOW .. just WOW ..</p><p>I saw one red response on this topic so far in another thread and all it said was "there is already a thread on this topic" and pointed here.  As if THIS is the official SOE thread on broken loot mechanics.  This thread without an form of official (red) announcement.  How did THIS thread become SOE's official statement when there isn't any SOE official statement included within. </p><p>Since its been ~24hours (a Day) since this "Feature" has been removed without notice or acknowledgement I feel that SOE is saying with its absents that the Trade Window is now closed and I will further assume that it will be reintroduced and contained within the "Feature" X-pack formally named A0D later this month or whenever and will only have a nominal fee associated with it when made available again.</p>

DuneWarrior
11-03-2011, 11:13 AM
<p>Still happening and extremely frustrating. Can we get a response to this? i dont even see it fixed in the stuff that just went to test ... not that it mattes, QA being what it is</p><p>Come on guys step up to the plate</p>

Rijacki
11-03-2011, 12:17 PM
<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>WOW .. just WOW ..</p><p>I saw one red response on this topic so far in another thread and all it said was "there is already a thread on this topic" and pointed here.  As if THIS is the official SOE thread on broken loot mechanics.  This thread without an form of official (red) announcement.  How did THIS thread become SOE's official statement when there isn't any SOE official statement included within. </p><p>Since its been ~24hours (a Day) since this "Feature" has been removed without notice or acknowledgement I feel that SOE is saying with its absents that the Trade Window is now closed and I will further assume that it will be reintroduced and contained within the "Feature" X-pack formally named A0D later this month or whenever and will only have a nominal fee associated with it when made available again.</p></blockquote><p>No, it just means that there isn't a need for several threads on the same subject. If there are a dozen threads on the same thing, which one should a red name remark in if they're going to post on the topic? Would the other 11 threads feel slighted by the dev posting in the first one he/she saw even if it wasn't the first posted? yes and that has occured before, too.</p><p>But.. jsut because a red name hasn't posted on something specifically doesn't mean they haven't read it or don't know about it. It doesn't even mean there isn't a fix or change coming.</p>

Nrgy
11-03-2011, 12:20 PM
<p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>WOW .. just WOW ..</p><p>I saw one red response on this topic so far in another thread and all it said was "there is already a thread on this topic" and pointed here.  As if THIS is the official SOE thread on broken loot mechanics.  This thread without an form of official (red) announcement.  How did THIS thread become SOE's official statement when there isn't any SOE official statement included within. </p><p>Since its been ~24hours (a Day) since this "Feature" has been removed without notice or acknowledgement I feel that SOE is saying with its absents that the Trade Window is now closed and I will further assume that it will be reintroduced and contained within the "Feature" X-pack formally named A0D later this month or whenever and will only have a nominal fee associated with it when made available again.</p></blockquote><p>No, it just means that there isn't a need for several threads on the same subject. If there are a dozen threads on the same thing, which one should a red name remark in if they're going to post on the topic? Would the other 11 threads feel slighted by the dev posting in the first one he/she saw even if it wasn't the first posted? yes and that has occured before, too.</p><p>But.. jsut because a red name hasn't posted on something specifically doesn't mean they haven't read it or don't know about it. It doesn't even mean there isn't a fix or change coming.</p></blockquote><p>I don't disagree with that at all ... what I disagree with is 48+ hours and without even so much as an acknowledgement or a "We Know, shut-the-heck-up we're looking into it!"</p>

Raknid
11-03-2011, 12:40 PM
<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't disagree with that at all ... what I disagree with is 48+ hours and without even so much as an acknowledgement or a "We Know, shut-the-heck-up we're looking into it!"</p></blockquote><p>It's not like this is a trivial issue or change. Something of this magnitude SHOULD be commented on as soon at is seen, like the Dev did in the wand adornment slot thread. Instructions should be given as to whether you need to file a petition or hang tight and the items will be backflagged (dont see how though), they should tell us they have notified the GM/CS staff and that they should be able to help us, etc...</p><p>A simple:</p><p>"Sorry. This is an unintended bug that we are working on correcting. We have notified our CS staff about this and they will be happy to help you if you file a petition with the subject "Yada Yada Yada" and the details "Yada Yada Yada" included."</p><p>Dang that was really hard to do. <snicker></p>

Gninja
11-03-2011, 01:09 PM
<p>We are looking into it.</p>

Raknid
11-03-2011, 01:10 PM
<p>thank you very much!</p>

Brigh
11-03-2011, 01:13 PM
<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>WOW .. just WOW ..</p><p>I saw one red response on this topic so far in another thread and all it said was "there is already a thread on this topic" and pointed here.  As if THIS is the official SOE thread on broken loot mechanics.  This thread without an form of official (red) announcement.  How did THIS thread become SOE's official statement when there isn't any SOE official statement included within.</p><p>Since its been ~24hours (a Day) since this "Feature" has been removed without notice or acknowledgement I feel that SOE is saying with its absents that the Trade Window is now closed and I will further assume that it will be reintroduced and contained within the "Feature" X-pack formally named A0D later this month or whenever and will only have a nominal fee associated with it when made available again.</p></blockquote><p>No, it just means that there isn't a need for several threads on the same subject. If there are a dozen threads on the same thing, which one should a red name remark in if they're going to post on the topic? Would the other 11 threads feel slighted by the dev posting in the first one he/she saw even if it wasn't the first posted? yes and that has occured before, too.</p><p>But.. jsut because a red name hasn't posted on something specifically doesn't mean they haven't read it or don't know about it. It doesn't even mean there isn't a fix or change coming.</p></blockquote><p>I don't disagree with that at all ... what I disagree with is 48+ hours and without even so much as an acknowledgement or a "We Know, shut-the-heck-up we're looking into it!"</p></blockquote><p>Not to mention "red" doesn't mean dev only. Mods don't have any power to fix the game.</p>

DuneWarrior
11-03-2011, 01:23 PM
<p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We are looking into it.</p></blockquote><p>And yay for communication, thanks G! much appreciated</p>

Xianthia
11-03-2011, 11:49 PM
<p>Oh, glad I looked under general gameplay.  I just posted on a different thread on this issue that it's still happening. </p><p>edit - nvm about "still" happening... just saw the reply from Gninja was dated today :p</p>

Lempo
11-04-2011, 11:17 AM
<p>You could bet your bottom dollar that if items that were not supposed to be tradeable had become tradeable with this that it would have been fixed by now or all trading would be disabled until it was resolved.</p><p>SOE this stuff is really disheartening, it has a pretty large impact on gameplay, we were affected by it last night, it is also increasing the workload of GM's and should have really been fixed with a patch this week. It isn't like the quests in KD were repeatable (iirc), nor were the rewards really super awesome.</p><p>Now we are stuck with it until Tuesday at the earliest, and if it is being given the same priority as the AA mirror and some of the other stuff that has been broken recently we might have to live with it until AoD is released.</p><p>Yes GNinja thanks for the update in here, but the consequences from what the change did are greater than what was the cause of the change to be done in the first place so why not just roll it back, fix it right, put it on test and confirm it is fixed right then roll it out.</p>

Poypoyking
11-04-2011, 02:02 PM
<p>This is posted on the "Top known customer service issues."</p><p>The recent update may have broke the ability to trade with those present at the kill for 48 hours.   Customer Service is happy to move the item to the  intended recipient providing it's petitioned within those 48 hours, is not attuned and both were present for the kill.  This will be addressed in an upcoming hotfix.</p>

Filly67
11-04-2011, 06:55 PM
<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote></blockquote><p>I haven't seen, heard or read anything on the Official forums or anywhere else saying it is not working as SOE intended now or that it is being "fixed" or even scheduled to be "fixed".  I'm sure GM's will get a bit tire of distributing 100's of loot items a night.</p></blockquote><p>I have two seperate emails from CS clearly stating that this is an unintended bug and will be fixed.  They were kind enough to move the three pieces that I had issues with to the proper toons.</p>

Cloudrat
11-06-2011, 05:38 AM
<p>Once again, how about we get rid of no-trade, heirloom and lore and pretend we have adults playing this game.</p>

zorkan
11-07-2011, 06:23 AM
<p>two words: quality assurance</p><p>I am always surprised how SOE is able to break more stuff than fix with their fixes. This stuff should be caught by QA or at least properly tested on the test server. [yes, old news, but I continue to be surprised coupled with being frustrated and angry]</p>

Rijacki
11-07-2011, 01:02 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>two words: quality assurance</p><p>I am always surprised how SOE is able to break more stuff than fix with their fixes. This stuff should be caught by QA or at least properly tested on the test server. [yes, old news, but I continue to be surprised coupled with being frustrated and angry]</p></blockquote><p>QA is most likely tasked with testing the changes in the patch to be applied as well as anything they think might be affected by those changes. To do a -complete- testing of all the game features, every zone, every possible nuance of gameplay, ever interaction of any item with every other item, etc, would take months or even years. The hot fixes (which this occured from) are usually only a few changes and are most likely those changes which it is estimated have the least risk.</p><p>Look at the patch notes for the last hot fix (the one which broke the 48-hour trading):</p><p><span ><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">POPULATION / ZONE PROGRESSION</span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Strategist’s Stronghold</span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Severed Windpipe is now curable.</span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: small;"> </span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Tallon’s Stronghold [Non-Challenge mode]</span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">During the Tallon Zek fight Decorin Deahbringer will cast Deathbringer’s Touch and Impending doom less frequently.</span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: small;"> </span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Tallon’s Stronghold [Challenge mode]</span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">During the Lieutenant Klaatuus fight the aviak trooper adds have less health, no longer memwipe, and will always spawn at the bosses feet.  </span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: small;"> </span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Vallon’s Tower [Challenge Mode]</span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">During the Gindan Commander Angler fight the Diaku Deceptors will wait a while before casting their stunning strike spell.</span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: small;"> </span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Kael Drakkel</span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">All dropped quest items that were previously flagged no-trade now consume the dropped quest item once the quest has been taken.</span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: small;">  </span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">ITEMS</span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-size: xx-small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Fixed an issue that cause some bows, thrown, and wand weapon damage to be reduced.</span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; padding-left: 30px;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">Without the benefit of hindsight, if you had this come across your desk as the changes, do you think any of them would have caused an issue with ranges wands losing their red slots or 48-hour trades of heirloom items to be 'broken'? With the benefit of hidnsight, sure, it might have been either the Kael change of the Items change.. maybe.. or could be some other odd combination of things.</p></span></p>

Wookin
11-07-2011, 01:13 PM
True. If I had seen there were changes to wands it wouldn't have occurred to me to examine the wands. Clearly that calls for checking drop rates on status items. Granted the 48-hr trade is murkier.

Yimway
11-07-2011, 04:42 PM
<p>Unit testing is hard stuff.</p>

feldon30
11-07-2011, 04:56 PM
<p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>QA is most likely tasked with testing the changes in the patch to be applied as well as anything they think might be affected by those changes. To do a -complete- testing of all the game features, every zone, every possible nuance of gameplay, ever interaction of any item with every other item, etc, would take months or even years. The hot fixes (which this occured from) are usually only a few changes and are most likely those changes which it is estimated have the least risk.</blockquote><blockquote><span><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">Without the benefit of hindsight, if you had this come across your desk as the changes, do you think any of them would have caused an issue with ranges wands losing their red slots or 48-hour trades of heirloom items to be 'broken'? With the benefit of hidnsight, sure, it might have been either the Kael change of the Items change.. maybe.. or could be some other odd combination of things.</p></span></blockquote><p>Every change to the game has TWO patch notes, a Public Patch Note (which shows up in the patch notes we see), and a Private or Developer Patch Note, which is a comment field only seen by devs and QA.</p><p>Because we are not privy to those Private Patch Notes, we don't know what they said.</p><p>But the bigger issue is, a gamewide feature was broken to prevent an extremely trivial "exploit" in Kael Drakkel.</p>

Rijacki
11-07-2011, 07:37 PM
<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>QA is most likely tasked with testing the changes in the patch to be applied as well as anything they think might be affected by those changes. To do a -complete- testing of all the game features, every zone, every possible nuance of gameplay, ever interaction of any item with every other item, etc, would take months or even years. The hot fixes (which this occured from) are usually only a few changes and are most likely those changes which it is estimated have the least risk.</blockquote><blockquote><span><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">Without the benefit of hindsight, if you had this come across your desk as the changes, do you think any of them would have caused an issue with ranges wands losing their red slots or 48-hour trades of heirloom items to be 'broken'? With the benefit of hidnsight, sure, it might have been either the Kael change of the Items change.. maybe.. or could be some other odd combination of things.</p></span></blockquote><p>Every change to the game has TWO patch notes, a Public Patch Note (which shows up in the patch notes we see), and a Private or Developer Patch Note, which is a comment field only seen by devs and QA.</p><p>Because we are not privy to those Private Patch Notes, we don't know what they said.</p><p>But the bigger issue is, a gamewide feature was broken to prevent an extremely trivial "exploit" in Kael Drakkel.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, there are private ones as well as public ones, but I can't post the private ones to make the point. AND, you are only speculating it's the Kael change. If could be something different entirely which is causing it.</p><p>But, the point still stands, to all those whining about QA not doing its job: how many features are in this game? how many different interactions of items, etc. How long do you think it would take to do a thorough regression test on everything to make sure nothing was inadvertantly effected? Given the publically announced changes, would you have thought to check 48-hour trading for heirloom items? Plus, that trading is a relatively new feature, would it be in the list of "must check each build" yet?</p><p>I've been working in SQA for far too many years (not for SOE), I'm looking at it from that perspective and think the majority of bashing of QA is very very unwarranted. (Besides, I know the QA personel for all games, SOE's included, get paid absolute peanuts, FAR below the norm for any other QA testing. No one should get paid -that- only to have this kind of hate heaped on them.)</p>

zorkan
11-08-2011, 07:08 AM
<p>Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming individual testers. It is the primary responsibility of the coder to check if his code is breaking something else since he knows what knobs he's turning. It is then his further responsibility to document the change to allow for sufficient testing.</p><p>I summarized this under QA as a process, not individuals or individual tasks.</p><p>We are not talking about small stuff here neither, we're talking about the removal of the heirloom trading system!</p>

zorkan
11-08-2011, 07:12 AM
<p>PS: If SOE as a company is not investing enough into QA (amount of or salary of coders and testers), I still blame SOE. </p>

Kincaid
11-08-2011, 10:42 AM
<p>I wouldn't have minded an announcement saying "the 48 grace period on no trade and heirloom loot has been disabled due to a unexpected issue we are trying to fix".  Would save the embarrassment of a raid looter looting everything to be distributed at the end of he zone finding he cant trade a single thing to who ever has won a bid for those items because we would know and be aware of the change.</p>

Nrgy
11-08-2011, 11:51 AM
<p>Patch Notes for both Test and Live are out and noting about reversing or fixing the previous ability to trade loots within kill present group/raid members .... the only information on this issue, one of the biggest impacting mechanics issue in a long time, has recieved only a sarcastic "We are looking into it" response in the past week.  This isn't some silly quest not refreshing for some silly event like we've been bombarded with at every login MotD.  This is actually impactful and even though it seems to have GM support it is a hassle to say the least.</p><p>Broken mechanic is Broken</p>

Rocc
11-08-2011, 12:21 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>PS: If SOE as a company is not investing enough into QA (amount of or salary of coders and testers), I still blame SOE. </p></blockquote><p>+1</p><p>The old saying goes "If I was a millionaire and gave a million people each a dollar, I would be broke. If I was broke and a million people each gave me a dollar, I would be a millionaire!" There is a lesson to be learned here about generating smaller amounts from more people then larger amounts from less people. QA effects retention. Sony is the worst company in the industry for customer satisfaction because they look at revenue and dont focus enough on recruiting new playerbase and retention.</p><p>From a business point of view, I wonder if their only motive here is a tax write off. Becuase the decisions they make in regards to retention is just dumb business and makes no sense what so ever. A 16 year old kid could run this company better!</p>

Kaynala
11-08-2011, 12:26 PM
<p>It would be nice to have a dev response regarding this issue.</p>

ObsidianNightmare
11-08-2011, 12:33 PM
<p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>PS: If SOE as a company is not investing enough into QA (amount of or salary of coders and testers), I still blame SOE. </p></blockquote><p>+1</p><p>The old saying goes "If I was a millionaire and gave a million people each a dollar, I would be broke. If I was broke and a million people each gave me a dollar, I would be a millionaire!" There is a lesson to be learned here about generating smaller amounts from more people then larger amounts from less people. QA effects retention. Sony is the worst company in the industry for customer satisfaction because they look at revenue and dont focus enough on recruiting new playerbase and retention.</p><p>From a business point of view, I wonder if their only motive here is a tax write off. Becuase the decisions they make in regards to retention is just dumb business and makes no sense what so ever. A 16 year old kid could run this company better!</p></blockquote><p>There's alot of really good examples posted by subscribers to this game of how we think SOE runs things based on the health of EQ2 and other SOE productes.  There's also alot of really good suggestions posted by subscribers to this game on what SOE can do to run things better.</p><p>Genarally those on the outside can only make a guess at what goes on behind the closed/barricaded doors of SOE. But I am willing to bet nothing will ever change in regards to the way business is conducted and budgeting is formulated at SOE. I'm also willing to bet nothing will ever change within the corporate stucture to allow for better processes to flow thereby providing a more polished/focused product.</p><p>Maybe because I'm willing to bet on it.. with my luck.. things might change? Wishful thinking.</p>

Rocc
11-08-2011, 12:38 PM
<p>Ya wishful thinking. Wish they would sell the EQ franchise to Trion or another company.</p>

Gilli
11-08-2011, 12:41 PM
<p>So... is it fixed?  I didn't see anything in the patch notes about it and can't get into the game for a bit.  Here's hoping...</p>

arvydys
11-08-2011, 12:49 PM
<p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ya wishful thinking. Wish they would sell the EQ franchise to Trion or another company.</p></blockquote><p>I would quit in a heartbeat.  Rift is the most soulless game I have ever played.  Yeah, they put out content but it doesnt address the games issues and is underdeveloped and they move to their next non-immersive idea.</p><p>Also, Trion is not exactly a beacon of honesty.  They have closed half their servers, only they dont say they are closing them, they 'convert to trial servers'.  They said falt out at launch 'we will never have RMT', and now they added a second special edition, that for 10 bucks you upgrade your account to the super special edition and get a mount.  </p><p>Grass isnt always greener, and right now the only company that I trust more than any other is probably arenanet, but gw2 is still all hype at this point so who knows for sure.  All the others are just as greedy as SoE and have either quality issues, quantity issues, or both.</p>

Rijacki
11-08-2011, 12:55 PM
<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Patch Notes for both Test and Live are out and noting about reversing or fixing the previous ability to trade loots within kill present group/raid members .... the only information on this issue, one of the biggest impacting mechanics issue in a long time, has recieved only a sarcastic "We are looking into it" response in the past week.  This isn't some silly quest not refreshing for some silly event like we've been bombarded with at every login MotD.  This is actually impactful and even though it seems to have GM support it is a hassle to say the least.</p><p>Broken mechanic is Broken</p></blockquote><p>How was it sarcastic? It was a simple, "we are looking into it". They might not know what combination of changes caused it and are *gasp* looking into it.</p><p>Developers in testing their own code often only do unit testing on THEIR code. It's not the fully compiled code with all the other changes from other developers, other fixes, other changes, etc. To test EVERYTHING in a single build that has all the changes isn't possible because of the bredth of that everything. So testers (and even developers) make educated guesses for what other things might be impacted by the change. I know that where I work we have been utterly baffled by a bug reaching the field as a side effect to a change that, on the surface, you would have no possible way of guessing it would affect that.</p>

arvydys
11-08-2011, 12:57 PM
<p><cite>ObsidianNightmare wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Genarally those on the outside can only make a guess at what goes on behind the closed/barricaded doors of SOE. But I am willing to bet nothing will ever change in regards to the way business is conducted and budgeting is formulated at SOE. I'm also willing to bet nothing will ever change within the corporate stucture to allow for better processes to flow thereby providing a more polished/focused product.</p></blockquote><p>I could be wrong here, but the quality of EQ2 started its downward trend at about the time SOE was put under 'direct control' of SCE and Kaz Hirai and the layoffs started happening.  I just think SoE isnt allowed the budget for EQ2 that it used to be allowed.  They could still be doing better than what they have been, but Im betting if they were still under SMP and controlling themselves more things wouldnt be as they are now.</p>

Rijacki
11-08-2011, 01:01 PM
<p><cite>[email protected]_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ObsidianNightmare wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>Genarally those on the outside can only make a guess at what goes on behind the closed/barricaded doors of SOE. But I am willing to bet nothing will ever change in regards to the way business is conducted and budgeting is formulated at SOE. I'm also willing to bet nothing will ever change within the corporate stucture to allow for better processes to flow thereby providing a more polished/focused product.</p></blockquote><p>I could be wrong here, but the quality of EQ2 started its downward trend at about the time SOE was put under 'direct control' of SCE and Kaz Hirai and the layoffs started happening.  I just think SoE isnt allowed the budget for EQ2 that it used to be allowed.  They could still be doing better than what they have been, but Im betting if they were still under SMP and controlling themselves more things wouldnt be as they are now.</p></blockquote><p>I'm inclined to agree with you but I think some of the change came before that, probably while they were trying to justify to parent Sony why they shouldn't be put under the other division. Such drastic change doesn't happen unless it's mandated from above.  (Yes I have seen change in ways I don't like too. I just don't put the blame on the bottom of the totem pole.)</p>

Nrgy
11-08-2011, 01:57 PM
<p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>How was it sarcastic? It was a simple, "we are looking into it". They might not know what combination of changes caused it and are *gasp* looking into it. <p>Developers in testing their own code often only do unit testing on THEIR code. It's not the fully compiled code with all the other changes from other developers, other fixes, other changes, etc. To test EVERYTHING in a single build that has all the changes isn't possible because of the bredth of that everything. So testers (and even developers) make educated guesses for what other things might be impacted by the change. I know that where I work we have been utterly baffled by a bug reaching the field as a side effect to a change that, on the surface, you would have no possible way of guessing it would affect that.</p></blockquote><p>Sarcastic is my own conspiracy theory ... since there has been exactly one "canned" response on this issue in a weeks time and it was far from original or informative.</p><p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't disagree with that at all ... what I disagree with is 48+ hours and without even so much as an acknowledgement or a "We Know, shut-the-heck-up <span style="color: #ff0000;">we're looking into it!</span>"</p></blockquote><p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">We are looking into it.</span></p></blockquote>

Gilli
11-09-2011, 03:23 PM
<p>Still broken.  And still mad.  I usually laugh off all your tomfoolery but this one is really cramping my style. </p>

Yimway
11-09-2011, 03:29 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Still broken.  And still mad.  I usually laugh off all your tomfoolery but this one is really cramping my style. </p></blockquote><p>They are working on it and they've stated CSG will handle petitions for it until it is fixed.</p>

Rijacki
11-09-2011, 08:04 PM
<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>How was it sarcastic? It was a simple, "we are looking into it". They might not know what combination of changes caused it and are *gasp* looking into it. <p>Developers in testing their own code often only do unit testing on THEIR code. It's not the fully compiled code with all the other changes from other developers, other fixes, other changes, etc. To test EVERYTHING in a single build that has all the changes isn't possible because of the bredth of that everything. So testers (and even developers) make educated guesses for what other things might be impacted by the change. I know that where I work we have been utterly baffled by a bug reaching the field as a side effect to a change that, on the surface, you would have no possible way of guessing it would affect that.</p></blockquote><p>Sarcastic is my own conspiracy theory ... since there has been exactly one "canned" response on this issue in a weeks time and it was far from original or informative.</p><p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't disagree with that at all ... what I disagree with is 48+ hours and without even so much as an acknowledgement or a "We Know, shut-the-heck-up <span style="color: #ff0000;">we're looking into it!</span>"</p></blockquote><p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">We are looking into it.</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>THIS is exactly why threads on the same topic should be merged. If there is a "red name" response in one, it's not seen by those following the other and they make the assumption no one has responded on it.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=508780" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=508780</a></p><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I apologize for the issue with the 48-hour grace period timer.  We have this problem fixed internally and it will be published with the next hotfix.</p></blockquote><p>Will customer service address petitions submitted for issues that arose durring this break period?</p><p>We've had several of them arise the past few nights of raiding, largely due to our assumption to how things were expected to work out.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, I've spoken with CS and they are assisting people with item issues that occurred while this bug was active.  </p></blockquote>