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View Full Version : That AA slider at 100% is going to scare any new players away


BabyAngel
07-22-2010, 09:08 AM
<p>No one who creates a new character is going to stay more than a day when they realize everyone their own level can hit them in two hits.</p><p>I visited Halas today to do some of the grey quests, and there were 5 Freeport just standing in the middle of one of the mountain areas by that bank just two hitting everyone they saw over and over, I invited them to my group so at least I could defend them. I felt sorry for them and the ones that spoke said they didn't plan on returning because of how unfair the system was</p><p>I have to agree with them,</p><p>I mean, you either have to make the whole newbie area immunity, or put the slider back to 50% so people can't make permanent characters to kill newbies when there bored.</p><p>Its really not helping keep the game alive.</p>

Wytie
07-22-2010, 10:17 AM
<p>It never did help the game when it was allowed the 1st time and I despise any scrub who does this to people who have no chance in hell at defending themselfs.</p><p>New people have no idea that they have ZERO chance in hell at winning a fight untill they invest 15-20h of time advancing their toons specificly for pvp.</p>

Shiirr
07-22-2010, 10:28 AM
<p>This is an old issue, and one of the reasons my original account is dusty and neglected.  Nagafen has always suffered a dearth of new players, even those who are experienced in the game, for a few reasons, but this is the biggest.  Allowing PvP at the entry point of the game was always a bad idea.  A new player doesn't get a warning.  They don't get a tutorial.  They just have a big "Kill Me" sign over their head.  What is so ****ing hard about adding a tutorial that's mandatory at level 5 on a PvP server?  What was it, about three years ago it was asked for?  That, or to change the minimum level from 10 to 15.  Instead you got PvP XP introduced.  Nagafen & Venekor were merged, but the population is stagnant and dying the slow death of attrition.  But then maybe that's the goal.</p>

Erriondrivan
07-22-2010, 11:22 AM
<p>Yet another reason to allow us to transfer off!</p>

BabyAngel
07-22-2010, 11:41 AM
<p>I am just completely surprised they allow it, what makes it worse is theres no guards around and both factions get immunity in the city...</p><p>And stupidly theres a banker right there out of immunity, so once those people steal those new players little earned money you really think they will stick around for long?</p><p>Maybe a good idea would be to disable that AA slider till level 50, by then everyone has an idea how AA's work...</p>

karnath
07-22-2010, 12:26 PM
<p>it wouldnt be so bad if peeps didnt grief, but i guess some people repeatedly kill those with no gear cause thats all they can kill. and cant stand up in a fair ( even geared) fight.</p>

kallidon
07-22-2010, 02:41 PM
<p>1. Although the AA slider shows 100% - between lvl 10 and 30 it only works at 50% thus eliminating full locking at these levels. (unless this has changed in the past few days)</p><p>2. Any new player coming to nagafen should expect to have their @ss handed to them until they learn the PvP game.</p><p>3. Outside of ALL the PvP issues...SOE has made it rediculously easy to gear up, level AA and PvP ....VERY short learning curve now that they have completely dumbed everything down.</p><p>4. Anyone who cannot figure out how to compete on Nagefen should think about another server.</p><p> ** Note...I am a very casual player but love open world FULL PvP...please quit contributing to the destruction of PvP!!</p>

Shiirr
07-22-2010, 02:57 PM
<p><cite>kallidon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1. Although the AA slider shows 100% - between lvl 10 and 30 it only works at 50% thus eliminating full locking at these levels. (unless this has changed in the past few days)</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>2. Any new player coming to nagafen should expect to have their @ss handed to them until they learn the PvP game.</strong></span></p><p>3. Outside of ALL the PvP issues...SOE has made it rediculously easy to gear up, level AA and PvP ....VERY short learning curve now that they have completely dumbed everything down.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>4. Anyone who cannot figure out how to compete on Nagefen should think about another server.</strong></span></p><p> ** Note...I am a very casual player but love open world FULL PvP...please quit contributing to the destruction of PvP!!</p></blockquote><p>2.  Problem is that any new player coming to Nagafen won't expect to have their @ss handed to them.  There's no mention of it.  Hell, you don't find out your killable until level 10, the first time somebody 1-shots you.  It's been a sh!tty aspect of the system since launch, and I was there for launch.  While it's gotten easier to gear up, it was, ironically, much more balanced at launch.  Class bugs aside, that is. </p><p>4.  Players who can't figure it out won't think about another server; they'll just leave altogether.  And tell everyone else who will listen to not bother with EQ2 PvP, because it's full of @ssholes, griefers & gankers who won't let you out of the starting area.  That doesn't help the population, and never has.  People don't go to a forum.  They just assume that the game is ****ed up and quit.</p><p>** Note ... I <em>was</em> a player who loved open world FULL PvP, until they kept screwing with it until it broke.  Now I'll just work on PvE crap until I have enough tradeskillers and a few toons for BG's, and get my twitch-kills in playing an FPS or two.  How does that benefit the population on Nagafen?  I mean, I've got a full account of toons sitting around in limbo simply because I just don't feel like reactivating that account.</p>

YasikoSetsu
07-22-2010, 05:56 PM
<p><cite>kallidon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1. Although the AA slider shows 100% - between lvl 10 and 30 it only works at 50% thus eliminating full locking at these levels. (unless this has changed in the past few days)</p><p>2. Any new player coming to nagafen should expect to have their @ss handed to them until they learn the PvP game.</p><p>3. Outside of ALL the PvP issues...SOE has made it rediculously easy to gear up, level AA and PvP ....VERY short learning curve now that they have completely dumbed everything down.</p><p>4. Anyone who cannot figure out how to compete on Nagefen should think about another server.</p><p> ** Note...I am a very casual player but love open world FULL PvP...please quit contributing to the destruction of PvP!!</p></blockquote><p>Pvp kills no longer give exp while combat exp is disabled, allowing full locking even at t2. Changed during the new halas update.</p><p>QFE to everything else. Be prepared for a rough ride, or learn to play on a blue server before you roll a character here. This server isn't for brand new players, sorry. Really never has been.</p>

Zacarus
07-22-2010, 06:23 PM
<p><cite>YasikoSetsuna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kallidon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1. Although the AA slider shows 100% - between lvl 10 and 30 it only works at 50% thus eliminating full locking at these levels. (unless this has changed in the past few days)</p><p>2. Any new player coming to nagafen should expect to have their @ss handed to them until they learn the PvP game.</p><p>3. Outside of ALL the PvP issues...SOE has made it rediculously easy to gear up, level AA and PvP ....VERY short learning curve now that they have completely dumbed everything down.</p><p>4. Anyone who cannot figure out how to compete on Nagefen should think about another server.</p><p>** Note...I am a very casual player but love open world FULL PvP...please quit contributing to the destruction of PvP!!</p></blockquote><p>Pvp kills no longer give exp while combat exp is disabled, allowing full locking even at t2. Changed during the new halas update.</p><p>QFE to everything else. Be prepared for a rough ride, or learn to play on a blue server before you roll a character here. This server isn't for brand new players, sorry. Really never has been.</p></blockquote><p>I didn't know that!?</p><p>So is it possible to get 160 aa's at level 10 on nagafen?  I can imagine getting 80ish by quests, aa runs, disco, etc, but I would think beyond that you'd need to power level the aa's, which would shoot you to level 30... right?</p>

Olihin
07-22-2010, 07:18 PM
<p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;">Greetings,</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;">In regards to the AA slider, that is just a cosmetic issue that we can try to resolve in the future.   The other issue with not gaining PvP experience when locked is being corrected and should be live in the next update.   </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;">The newbie experience is difficult to ease into when on a PvP server.   I have done as much as possible to provide new players with the opportunity to gear up and be competitive.  Unfortunately, with a game that has veterans as far back as KoS when PvP started, the newbie landscape is no longer only filled with players that are all learning the game.   </span></p><p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;"><span style="font-size: medium;">I am always open to suggestions and welcome all feedback on how we can make this even better. </span>  </span></p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p>

Gungo
07-22-2010, 08:04 PM
<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;">Greetings,</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;">In regards to the AA slider, that is just a cosmetic issue that we can try to resolve in the future.   The other issue with not gaining PvP experience when locked is being corrected and should be live in the next update.   </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;">The newbie experience is difficult to ease into when on a PvP server.   I have done as much as possible to provide new players with the opportunity to gear up and be competitive.  Unfortunately, with a game that has veterans as far back as KoS when PvP started, the newbie landscape is no longer only filled with players that are all learning the game.   </span></p><p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;"><span style="font-size: medium;">I am always open to suggestions and welcome all feedback on how we can make this even better. </span>  </span></p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>The best way to leave open PVP and fix the camping issues on choke points is to place more high level epic x2+ guards in newbie areas. This should have little to no effect on pve servers as well. A few see invis roaming guards in certain newbie choke points would help with the issue as well. </p>

Erriondrivan
07-22-2010, 08:06 PM
<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;">Greetings,</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;">In regards to the AA slider, that is just a cosmetic issue that we can try to resolve in the future.   The other issue with not gaining PvP experience when locked is being corrected and should be live in the next update.   </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;">The newbie experience is difficult to ease into when on a PvP server.   I have done as much as possible to provide new players with the opportunity to gear up and be competitive.  Unfortunately, with a game that has veterans as far back as KoS when PvP started, the newbie landscape is no longer only filled with players that are all learning the game.   </span></p><p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;"><span style="font-size: medium;">I am always open to suggestions and welcome all feedback on how we can make this even better. </span>  </span></p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>Let us transfer off  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

BMonkeeus
07-22-2010, 08:45 PM
<p><cite>YasikoSetsuna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kallidon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1. Although the AA slider shows 100% - between lvl 10 and 30 it only works at 50% thus eliminating full locking at these levels. (unless this has changed in the past few days)</p><p>2. Any new player coming to nagafen should expect to have their @ss handed to them until they learn the PvP game.</p><p>3. Outside of ALL the PvP issues...SOE has made it rediculously easy to gear up, level AA and PvP ....VERY short learning curve now that they have completely dumbed everything down.</p><p>4. Anyone who cannot figure out how to compete on Nagefen should think about another server.</p><p> ** Note...I am a very casual player but love open world FULL PvP...please quit contributing to the destruction of PvP!!</p></blockquote><p>Pvp kills no longer give exp while combat exp is disabled, allowing full locking even at t2. Changed during the new halas update.</p><p>QFE to everything else. Be prepared for a rough ride, or learn to play on a blue server before you roll a character here. This server isn't for brand new players, sorry. Really never has been.</p></blockquote><p>I laughed...</p>

Taldier
07-22-2010, 08:54 PM
<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000; font-size: medium;">Greetings,</span></p><p><span style="font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000; font-size: medium;">In regards to the AA slider, that is just a cosmetic issue that we can try to resolve in the future.   The other issue with not gaining PvP experience when locked is being corrected and should be live in the next update.   </span></p><p><span style="font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000; font-size: medium;">The newbie experience is difficult to ease into when on a PvP server.   I have done as much as possible to provide new players with the opportunity to gear up and be competitive.  Unfortunately, with a game that has veterans as far back as KoS when PvP started, the newbie landscape is no longer only filled with players that are all learning the game.   </span></p><p><span style="font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000; font-size: large;"><span style="font-size: medium;">I am always open to suggestions and welcome all feedback on how we can make this even better. </span>  </span></p><p><span style="color: #3366ff; font-size: large;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>Level ranges and level locking are, and always have been, completely counter to each other.  The purpose of level ranges is supposed to be to protect new players from more experienced players.  The purpose of levels is as a measure of character experience.</p><p>Level locking allows for players with an infinite amount of experience to kill players with no experience.  Level locking and level ranges in combination protect experienced players from other experienced players who would otherwise kill them, allowing them to grief unexperienced players with immunity.</p><p>As long as both of these mechanics are in effect simultaneously there is nothing you can ever do that will make any difference to the newbie experience.  The only thing that would improve the newbie experience is to remove either level locking or level ranges.</p><p>but first fix t9 pvp so that everyone with half decent gear doesnt absorb 90% of of each others damage and heal the rest.</p><p>Properly balance one tier, let everyone play in that tier, allow them to kill people who are killing newbies.  This increases the population that are actually interacting with each other and allows newbies to call for help.</p>

Sanon12
07-22-2010, 09:00 PM
<p>Hell, pvp servers already have their own events and systems. Why not just a far lower AA cap at the lower levels? The only reason you would ever need that many AA at such a low level is to be a cowardly ganker anyway.</p>

Taldier
07-22-2010, 09:25 PM
<p><cite>Sanon12 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hell, pvp servers already have their own events and systems. Why not just a far lower AA cap at the lower levels? The only reason you would ever need that many AA at such a low level is to be a cowardly ganker anyway.</p></blockquote><p>They did until recently.  Unfortunately we've gone through this whole cycle before.</p><p>Gankers kill newbies, newbies cry, level locking gets nerfed, gankers whine repeatedly...now we have perma level locking back again with even more aa's than were available before!</p><p>And the million dollar question....what is the reason behind yet another misguided decision related to pvp servers?</p><p>....</p><p>Battlegrounds!<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

wayfaerer
07-22-2010, 09:51 PM
<p>Add higher level see invis/stealth roaming guards who aggro a long way when friendly players get attacked.</p><p>It took me about 50 deaths to level from 10 to 20 in DLW. Most players who try PvP don't have the same fortitude for it that I do (sadly several of the friends I brought over couldn't deal with it and went back to WoW).</p>

CYR3Z
07-22-2010, 11:44 PM
<p>I Referred a friend thanks for the new mount! but my friend no longer plays because of FREEPS! totally new to the game and hasn't got a clue as to why their getting killed all the time.  forgot to mention they no longer play the game</p>

Taldier
07-23-2010, 12:16 AM
<p><cite>CYR3Z wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I Referred a friend thanks for the new mount! but my friend no longer plays because of FREEPS! totally new to the game and<strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"> hasn't got a clue as to why their getting killed all the time</span></strong>.  forgot to mention they no longer play the game</p></blockquote><p>Highlighted point here is probably the one things that drives more newbies away from this game then anything else.  If little newbie goes out and sees a lvl 90, and the lvl 90 were to kill them...they would think, "ok, he is lvl 90, I am lvl 10, I should lvl up instead of being lvl 10".</p><p>When the newbie goes out and sees someone 2 lvls lower then them, and they die without doing even a single point of damage to that enemy...they think "[Removed for Content], this [Removed for Content] is broken", which is a fairly rational response seeing as it is broken.  A regenerating ward in t2?  And no aa limit?  And poor little newbie cant even join a guild for help because none of the lvl 90s can do anything to help him?</p><p>I mean come on seriously.  We actually expect the average player to put up with this?  No wonder we dont have as high pop as the cruddy carebear servers.</p>

Ilovecows
07-23-2010, 01:00 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>CYR3Z wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I Referred a friend thanks for the new mount! but my friend no longer plays because of FREEPS! totally new to the game and<strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"> hasn't got a clue as to why their getting killed all the time</span></strong>.  forgot to mention they no longer play the game</p></blockquote><p>Highlighted point here is probably the one things that drives more newbies away from this game then anything else.  If little newbie goes out and sees a lvl 90, and the lvl 90 were to kill them...they would think, "ok, he is lvl 90, I am lvl 10, I should lvl up instead of being lvl 10".</p><p>When the newbie goes out and sees someone 2 lvls lower then them, and they die without doing even a single point of damage to that enemy...they think "[Removed for Content], this [Removed for Content] is broken", which is a fairly rational response seeing as it is broken.  A regenerating ward in t2?  And no aa limit?  And poor little newbie cant even join a guild for help because none of the lvl 90s can do anything to help him?</p><p>I mean come on seriously.  We actually expect the average player to put up with this?  No wonder we dont have as high pop as the cruddy carebear servers.</p></blockquote><p>I just have to say that nagafen actually has the second highest, and sometimes the highest behind antonia bayle.  although, sometimes nagafen is the highest, sometime antonia.  It just depends on the time they are pretty close to both being tied for the highest populated servers.</p>

Taldier
07-23-2010, 01:39 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>CYR3Z wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I Referred a friend thanks for the new mount! but my friend no longer plays because of FREEPS! totally new to the game and<strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"> hasn't got a clue as to why their getting killed all the time</span></strong>.  forgot to mention they no longer play the game</p></blockquote><p>Highlighted point here is probably the one things that drives more newbies away from this game then anything else.  If little newbie goes out and sees a lvl 90, and the lvl 90 were to kill them...they would think, "ok, he is lvl 90, I am lvl 10, I should lvl up instead of being lvl 10".</p><p>When the newbie goes out and sees someone 2 lvls lower then them, and they die without doing even a single point of damage to that enemy...they think "[Removed for Content], this [Removed for Content] is broken", which is a fairly rational response seeing as it is broken.  A regenerating ward in t2?  And no aa limit?  And poor little newbie cant even join a guild for help because none of the lvl 90s can do anything to help him?</p><p>I mean come on seriously.  We actually expect the average player to put up with this?  No wonder we dont have as high pop as the cruddy carebear servers.</p></blockquote><p>I just have to say that nagafen actually has the second highest, and sometimes the highest behind antonia bayle.  although, sometimes nagafen is the highest, sometime antonia.  It just depends on the time they are pretty close to both being tied for the highest populated servers.</p></blockquote><p>Indeed lol, I was just pointing the same thing out to a blubie earlier.  The fact remains that they do substantially outnumber us, and I still have to ask why?</p><p>The basic pvp ruleset of eq2, underneath all of the bad decisions to grant instant gratification, the gearflation, and the exploitable systems (yes, lvl locking included), is one of the best underlying concepts for a pvp rpg I've seen.</p><p>I honestly think thats why alot of us folks have hung around holding on to hope all this time.  Even alot of the ones who leave repeatedly come back, always hoping that maybe soe will have realized what exactly they have and done something with it.</p><p>The combat can be incredibly complex and fairly fast paced at the same time, the calculations behind the scenes were detailed enough with plenty of varied gear and aa options that setting up your spec really took some thought.  And the huge open world... that used to have lots of incentives for people to be out and about pveing and pvping at the same time, playing the hunter and the hunted.</p><p>If soe really just stopped bending us over like some sideshow for the amusement of the blubies, eq2 could be a really fabulous pvp rpg.  Maybe not perfect, but still better than anything else thats out on the market.</p><p>I know there are rpg pvp gamers out there, theres tons of them, alot of them are moving from game to game looking for someone who's actually managed to get it right, some of them are even on eq2's pve servers.  So the real question is... why arent there more pvp servers than pve servers?</p><p>And one small part of the huge convoluted answer to that question...is that every time someone picks up the game, sees the message "you fail to inflict any $&#*ing damage whatsoever" 20 times in a row in their combat log while they are being slaughtered...they log out.</p><p>Heck if that had happened the first time I logged into eq2, I probably woulda figured it was a poorly designed game too. </p>

Auxillery
07-23-2010, 04:20 AM
<p>This is where, you make friends and get gear. My first visit to pvp as a brig most of my deaths were from griefs... Never could get higher than dessy with the greys able to land crap on me. Now I am level 90 with the same sheet in T2 happening in T9.. Regenerating wards. Some classes are not killable by scouts /waves to those wizzy/locks with all ward gear. This needs to be fixed, I dont care if I get nerfed in the process, WTB FAIR PVP.</p>

Leemeg
07-23-2010, 09:34 AM
<p>I have returned to the PVP server the last few days. Instead of go to my old chars, i started on from the scratch (without help from the old chars, although there isn't much worth on them after so long anyway). Although I have started fresh, I cannot say that im a total new player either (since I have played on blue servers for several years).I haven't really seen the ganking that goes apperently goes on. Some of the starter area is empty (Feydark), so there is methods to hide from them.  And those few that goes around and hunting, they aren't really griefing me either. I have gotten killed, then I can see them sneaks around, but not killing me again until the Recent kill list is cleared. So, it gives me plenty of time of questing in areas, and move around. I'm actual a bit dissepointed not seeing more PvP action...The negative? The distance between a normal char and a twink. It's way too big difference. I find it okey that the twink shall win 100% of the time (maybe reduce that to 99%). But, the fact that it is impossible to even harm them. That's just ridiculous. It's not fun by a mile. If I could have gotten them down to about 50-60% I would be happy, but I cannot even get off 1 health point due to the regenrative wards.</p>

BabyAngel
07-23-2010, 09:45 AM
<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: "courier new", "courier"; color: #ff0000;">Greetings,</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: "courier new", "courier"; color: #ff0000;">In regards to the AA slider, that is just a cosmetic issue that we can try to resolve in the future.   The other issue with not gaining PvP experience when locked is being corrected and should be live in the next update.   </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: "courier new", "courier"; color: #ff0000;">The newbie experience is difficult to ease into when on a PvP server.   I have done as much as possible to provide new players with the opportunity to gear up and be competitive.  Unfortunately, with a game that has veterans as far back as KoS when PvP started, the newbie landscape is no longer only filled with players that are all learning the game.   </span></p><p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: "courier new", "courier"; color: #ff0000;"><span style="font-size: medium;">I am always open to suggestions and welcome all feedback on how we can make this even better. </span>  </span></p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p><p>I must add that I am level locked, and have been for over a year, but I hate PVP. In the year I have been playing I have made 250 kills, been killed 131 times, and have a kill streak of 52. I let them attack me, see how useless they are against me (I like to think I am a good wizard) and let them run away after I half their health.</p><p>I would love to transfer off.</p><p>I am level 62... the only reason I am locked is because I am determined to knock off every raid zone at level</p></p><p>I am glad to know the AA slider doesn't fully work before 30 and its cosmetic, and I am glad the no xp for pvp kills is being fixed also.</p><p>If I can make the suggestion,  one of the things that many people ask when they join the pvp servers is "When do we get flagged as PVP"</p><p>I think it may do all the servers some good to have a little buff on them  that appears once they are at level 10 and outside immunity to indicate they can be killed. Even at level 10 when venturing into places like Antonica you get an immunity count-down... this could really confuse lower level players and a little flag much like the war fields chaos flag saying "PVP Enabled" may actually help them understand when they can be killed and when they can't.</p><p>I also think that new players should automatically be set to anonymous if its possible, all it takes to find new players and where they are is to log onto a qeynos toon from freeport or the other way around and type /who. For instance I just did it and a level 10 berserker is showing in Frostfang, I just messaged him and indeed he is on a trial... Having that auto set may stop people hunting them down.</p>

Salastine
07-23-2010, 02:05 PM
<p><cite>BabyAngel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think it may do all the servers some good to have a little buff on them  that appears once they are at level 10 and outside immunity to indicate they can be killed. Even at level 10 when venturing into places like Antonica you get an immunity count-down... this could really confuse lower level players and a little flag much like the war fields chaos flag saying "PVP Enabled" may actually help them understand when they can be killed and when they can't.</p></blockquote><p>There is a flag for pvp, it's located on the right side of your name/health/power bar.  Shows when you're attackable.  Also there's the "glowing border" around player names that show agro, something that's learned early on in lowbie zones.</p>

Neskonlith
07-23-2010, 03:01 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just have to say that nagafen actually has the second highest, and sometimes the highest behind antonia bayle.  although, sometimes nagafen is the highest, sometime antonia. </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Olihin had mentioned in open chat last night that Nagafen has the largest amount of active pve instances of all the servers - which possibly indicates that pve is more popular than broken open-pvp on Nagafen.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">When you also consider that subscribers are not allowed to transfer characters off Nagafen to a real server (Vox doesn't count), then you might actually have a significant amount of bluebies trapped on Naggie, and inflating the population.</span></p>

kallidon
07-23-2010, 03:18 PM
<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just have to say that nagafen actually has the second highest, and sometimes the highest behind antonia bayle.  although, sometimes nagafen is the highest, sometime antonia. </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Olihin had mentioned in open chat last night that Nagafen has the largest amount of active pve instances of all the servers - which possibly indicates that pve is more popular than broken open-pvp on Nagafen.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">When you also consider that subscribers are not allowed to transfer characters off Nagafen to a real server (Vox doesn't count), then you might actually have a significant amount of bluebies trapped on Naggie, and inflating the population.</span></p></blockquote><p>Not sure how a true Bluebie would get trapped on Nagafen...Going with the theme of the OP for this thread, people seem to think that any new player to PvP will run screaming off this server back to a Bluebie server or quit all toghether in frustration....Considering the rate at which you can level a toon its not very difficult to move servers.</p><p>In reality I believe most of the people stuck on this server are actual PvPers at heart holding on hope that one day PvP will get better.</p><p>Even if there are Blubies trapped on nagafen they are still active ...I dont understand why someone would play something they feel trapped into.</p>

Neskonlith
07-23-2010, 03:31 PM
<p><cite>kallidon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>In reality I believe most of the people stuck on this server are actual PvPers at heart holding on hope that one day PvP will get better.</p><p>Even if there are Blubies trapped on nagafen they are still active ...I dont understand why someone would play something they feel trapped into. </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">When pvp first started, I rolled characters on the RP-PVP server... over the years, SOE nerfed the living Rallos out of everything to result in a pvp-game that is very different from where we first started.  Add in the SOE "<em>no transfers</em>" rule, and you end up with accounts containing years-long characters, and friendships that are not easily abandoned.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">As for being trapped, so long as there remain methods to avoid broke-pvp, there is really no issue.  However, when/if SOE strips immunities away to force broke-pvp on everyone logging in, that is when you will likely see players cancelling as they can no longer ignore all of the broken stuff that spoils the party.</span></p>

BabyAngel
07-23-2010, 03:40 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BabyAngel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think it may do all the servers some good to have a little buff on them  that appears once they are at level 10 and outside immunity to indicate they can be killed. Even at level 10 when venturing into places like Antonica you get an immunity count-down... this could really confuse lower level players and a little flag much like the war fields chaos flag saying "PVP Enabled" may actually help them understand when they can be killed and when they can't.</p></blockquote><p>There is a flag for pvp, it's located on the right side of your name/health/power bar.  Shows when you're attackable.  Also there's the "glowing border" around player names that show agro, something that's learned early on in lowbie zones.</p></blockquote><p>The glowing border thing really confuses me, theres always greys with glowy names all over the place who I can't attack.</p><p>As for the little swords symbol, I know that, but its not really that visible on default UI... I never notice its there, none of the new people seem to notice otherwise they wouldn't ask how do I know I am flagged for PVP all the time...</p><p>Thats why I suggested it... as a kind of buff more like the warfields flag, the minute I know that picture is on me... I know I am flagged for warfields and able to get the reward.</p><p>Something liek that may work well for PVP also. I mean we all know when we are chaos flagged for being killed in a city also. But I wouldn't want something that distracting.</p><p>if you didn't know Rothgar has massive UI changes in the works (might be live on test but don't know) that are coming soon. Maybe something could be worked into that. Maybe theres a way to make that more visible.</p>

Taldier
07-23-2010, 04:01 PM
<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">As for being trapped, so long as there remain methods to avoid broke-pvp, there is really no issue.  However, when/if SOE strips immunities away to force broke-pvp on everyone logging in, that is when you will likely see players cancelling as they can no longer ignore all of the broken stuff that spoils the party.</span></p></blockquote><p>This comment is absurd (aside from being cross posted off topic).  Perma-immunity isnt some way for people to enjoy themselves while protected from pvp.  What exactly are you able to do within the range of perma-immunity?  Other than get free tokens for doing nothing, create lag, make a sandwich, and possibly do a /dance emote a couple times just for kicks?</p><p>Only your own group can zone into an instance, instances arent effected by perma-immunity.  You cant attack any mobs in pve while maintaining perma-immunity so you cant be doing a dungeon.  Guild halls and housing which have all the city amenities you could need will always have immunity regardless of the existance of perma-immunity or not.</p><p>What exactly is perma-immunity for?</p><p>How about we try to fix all the things that are broken instead of complaining that we need to be protected from having to deal with them.</p>

Neskonlith
07-23-2010, 04:18 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What exactly are you able to do within the range of perma-immunity? </p><p>Other than get free tokens for doing nothing, create lag, make a sandwich, and possibly do a /dance emote a couple times just for kicks?</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">lol</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I have not exploited WF or BeeGees for Tokens, nor will I in the foreseeable future.  Surprising it might be to you, but some of us actually do play an honest game without bending the rules - honest games are the only ones worth playing.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Perma immunity in Paineel is convenient for preparing for instances in SF, and interacting with the quest NPCs located there.  Perma-immunity in Moors is convenient for world brokering and doing alt questing in TSO.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I find it amusing how you want to "move the goalposts" and support removing all immunity now that your characters have already passed the need to access the quests located in those spots.  </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Removing all immunity likely won't harm 90s too much, but it will certainly make easy-kill undergeared lowbies even easier to farm... so much for striving for "quality pvp" contests!</span></p>

Joemomm
07-23-2010, 04:22 PM
<p>Perma-immunity is something dear to my heart and I have posted in 2 other posts about keeping at least 1 zone with bank in t9 with it. Here is what you can do in perma-immunity that I fear losing. Granted, i accept that you can do all things from a guild hall and, IF your hall/house has access to a spire, you can make it back to t9 zones in a pinch. Still, unguilded players and players in guilds who don't have a spire amenity, have no really quick way back to a t9 zone. Bell's don't take you to t9 and the spire in ant is a fair distance away. Surely critics will state some method of quick travel back but the key is convience, and right now having at least 1 perma immunity city in t9 is convienient.</p><p>Anyway, here is what I fear losing, for the third time in different posts <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><ul><li>Quick banking of quest plat without being rushed to the bank, paranoid and staring at my track, worrying about players camping the bank looking for targets with fat walets, or having to call back to guild hall which is a fairly long cast time in a hostile environment (when compared to evac at least) and INCONVIENENT.</li><li>Checking the broker in between pvp and questing to see if prices have taken a dip on ulteran diamonds so I can finally get those adept 3's, or perhaps putting up those new shinies/adept 3's I harvested when out in the wild.</li><li>Having a quick chat with a guildie who just logged in/trying to organize an instance or pvp group/any kind of guild or tell quick chat that would be foolish to call all the way back to the guild hall to have in between quests.</li></ul>

Taldier
07-23-2010, 05:01 PM
<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What exactly are you able to do within the range of perma-immunity? </p><p>Other than get free tokens for doing nothing, create lag, make a sandwich, and possibly do a /dance emote a couple times just for kicks?</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">lol</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I have not exploited WF or BeeGees for Tokens, nor will I in the foreseeable future.  Surprising it might be to you, but some of us actually do play an honest game without bending the rules - honest games are the only ones worth playing.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Perma immunity in Paineel is convenient for preparing for instances in SF, and interacting with the quest NPCs located there.  Perma-immunity in Moors is convenient for world brokering and doing alt questing in TSO.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I find it amusing how you want to "move the goalposts" and support removing all immunity now that your characters have already passed the need to access the quests located in those spots.  </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Removing all immunity likely won't harm 90s too much, but it will certainly make easy-kill undergeared lowbies even easier to farm... so much for striving for "quality pvp" contests!</span></p></blockquote><p>There is an obvious difference between areas like Moors that have some immunity around one of the few cross faction brokers and the huge amounts of unnecessary perma-immunity all over the map tbh.  Im not entirely for or against any perma immunity anywhere.  Under certain circumstances though I honestly wouldnt see the need for any of it anywhere at all.</p><p>Regardless, it remains completely absurd and exaggerated to say that perma-immunity is your only protection that allows you to enjoy the game.  There is nothing enjoyable that can be done while in perma-immunity in an open zone.</p><p>All of those "undergeared lowbies" in sbh and sf have to leave the perma immunity to do anything.  They cant quest in it, they cant kill mobs in it.  They are going to get slaughtered eventually regardless.  The only ones being indefinitely protected by perma immunity with no actual need to ever leave it are the lvl 90s.</p>

EQ2Player
07-24-2010, 01:12 AM
<p><cite>Erriondrivan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yet another reason to allow us to transfer off!</p></blockquote><p>Yes, address this. Many customers want to move on. You can not use the Gear excuse anymore. 3 Days left on my subscription... I *MIGHT* renew if I could transfer off Assh0leville, er, Nagafen</p>

Ralpmet
07-24-2010, 02:19 AM
<p><cite>BabyAngel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one who creates a new character is going to stay more than a day when they realize everyone their own level can hit them in two hits.</p><p>I visited Halas today to do some of the grey quests, and there were 5 Freeport just standing in the middle of one of the mountain areas by that bank just two hitting everyone they saw over and over, I invited them to my group so at least I could defend them. I felt sorry for them and the ones that spoke said they didn't plan on returning because of how unfair the system was</p><p>I have to agree with them,</p><p>I mean, you either have to make the whole newbie area immunity, or put the slider back to 50% so people can't make permanent characters to kill newbies when there bored.</p><p>Its really not helping keep the game alive.</p></blockquote><p>I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but this post was messed up from the get go. I can't even get passed the first post in this thread without facepalming.</p><p>1. You CAN NOT have your AA slider (working at least) at 100 until level 30.</p><p>2. As far as I know PvP combat STILL gives you experience, regardless if you're locked or not. So what's the deal with people getting a few writ updates? God knows there isn't exactly a flow of newbs big enough to make an impact anywhere else. If someone wants to spend 6 hours to get 3 writs done on newbies let them, I'll get my 30 done and that'll be that.</p><p>3. "Unfair". Now that's biased. I even have heard people I've grouped with calling this game unfair now.</p><p>Tell you what, (i won't even use my sk as an example, we'll go with my ranger that I barely know how to play) my ranger only has 62? 63? aa's at level 36. That's without the double exp weekend or any of that crazy news that people talk about. If I run into some guy who made his character 2 hours ago and is now level 30 with 5 aa's and island gear, no duh I'm going to probably scroll through 3 ca's and he'll die. That's life.</p><p>OMG THE GUY IN THE MUSTANG GT BEAT MY OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS IN RACE, MUSTANGS ARE OP AND THATS UNFAIR!! Suck it up, I mean for christs sake what's wrong with people today? What ever happened to earning what you get. The following statement is true and should always be remembered;</p><p><strong>You want to make PvP easier? Then reward the people who went through the BS that you're quitting over and actually learned to excel in that environment. Every single person who has rolled on a pvp server started from nothing, every single person got ganked a billion times in the newb zones, and every single person on this server has experienced not being able to quest because some loser thinks it's exciting to grief you. GET OVER IT, it happens. ITS ACTUALLY EASIER THAN EVER! I remember starting and not being able to get the PvP gear because it took such an incredible amount of kills to get the faction that by the time I had the faction for some pieces I had already outleveled that tier. Nowadays you log on, hit a red twice and run away then come back and you've got your first update, when you only need what, 18 updates to get a regenerating ward? Give me a freaking break already.</strong></p>

EndevorX
07-24-2010, 03:57 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is an old issue, and one of the reasons my original account is dusty and neglected.  Nagafen has always suffered a dearth of new players, even those who are experienced in the game, for a few reasons, but this is the biggest.  Allowing PvP at the entry point of the game was always a bad idea.  A new player doesn't get a warning.  They don't get a tutorial.  They just have a big "Kill Me" sign over their head.  <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>What is so ****ing hard about adding a tutorial that's mandatory at level 5 on a PvP server?</strong></span>  What was it, about three years ago it was asked for?  That, or to change the minimum level from 10 to 15.  Instead you got PvP XP introduced.  Nagafen & Venekor were merged, but the population is stagnant and dying the slow death of attrition.  But then maybe that's the goal.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The above is what I had been suggesting for a long, long time on my original account, searchable under Kurindor_Mythecnea.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">IMO, such a PvP-oriented tutorial would need specific quests to run the player through the motions, and it would need to contain all the advice I mentioned in this newbie's request for help at <a href="list.m?topic_id=482455">PvP at max level?</a> and in my PvP briefing.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">IIIIII also still think that the amount of players gained by allowing level locking will be more than those lost due to lacking resolve, by greenhorns, in efforts to be acquainted with successful strategies.</span></p>

BabyAngel
07-24-2010, 03:20 PM
<p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BabyAngel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one who creates a new character is going to stay more than a day when they realize everyone their own level can hit them in two hits.</p><p>I visited Halas today to do some of the grey quests, and there were 5 Freeport just standing in the middle of one of the mountain areas by that bank just two hitting everyone they saw over and over, I invited them to my group so at least I could defend them. I felt sorry for them and the ones that spoke said they didn't plan on returning because of how unfair the system was</p><p>I have to agree with them,</p><p>I mean, you either have to make the whole newbie area immunity, or put the slider back to 50% so people can't make permanent characters to kill newbies when there bored.</p><p>Its really not helping keep the game alive.</p></blockquote><p>I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but this post was messed up from the get go. I can't even get passed the first post in this thread without facepalming.</p><p>1. You CAN NOT have your AA slider (working at least) at 100 until level 30.</p><p>2. As far as I know PvP combat STILL gives you experience, regardless if you're locked or not. So what's the deal with people getting a few writ updates? God knows there isn't exactly a flow of newbs big enough to make an impact anywhere else. If someone wants to spend 6 hours to get 3 writs done on newbies let them, I'll get my 30 done and that'll be that.</p><p>3. "Unfair". Now that's biased. I even have heard people I've grouped with calling this game unfair now.</p><p>Tell you what, (i won't even use my sk as an example, we'll go with my ranger that I barely know how to play) my ranger only has 62? 63? aa's at level 36. That's without the double exp weekend or any of that crazy news that people talk about. If I run into some guy who made his character 2 hours ago and is now level 30 with 5 aa's and island gear, no duh I'm going to probably scroll through 3 ca's and he'll die. That's life.</p><p>OMG THE GUY IN THE MUSTANG GT BEAT MY OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS IN RACE, MUSTANGS ARE OP AND THATS UNFAIR!! Suck it up, I mean for christs sake what's wrong with people today? What ever happened to earning what you get. The following statement is true and should always be remembered;</p><p><strong>You want to make PvP easier? Then reward the people who went through the BS that you're quitting over and actually learned to excel in that environment. Every single person who has rolled on a pvp server started from nothing, every single person got ganked a billion times in the newb zones, and every single person on this server has experienced not being able to quest because some loser thinks it's exciting to grief you. GET OVER IT, it happens. ITS ACTUALLY EASIER THAN EVER! I remember starting and not being able to get the PvP gear because it took such an incredible amount of kills to get the faction that by the time I had the faction for some pieces I had already outleveled that tier. Nowadays you log on, hit a red twice and run away then come back and you've got your first update, when you only need what, 18 updates to get a regenerating ward? Give me a freaking break already.</strong></p></blockquote><p>1. As far as I know PvP combat STILL gives you experience, regardless if you're locked or not. <- No but its being fixed, if you scroll through the first page you would have read that.</p><p>2. I am not quitting</p><p>3. I don't want the mechanics of PVP easier, that would be a bad move its already far to easy.<strong></strong></p><p>4.. I want PVP easier for new players to understand, why... because theres no tutorial or explanation of aa and so on for PVP, also the AA slider showing 100% but not giving 100% was something I didn't know. I haven't been pre level 30 since the slider existed, and... was going by what I was told in the 1 - 9 chat, so it appears its a cosmetic bug that needs fixing....</p><p><strong>Nowadays you log on, hit a red twice and run away then come back and you've got your first update <-</strong></p><p>A new player wouldn't know that. A new player may not even know what a writ is or where to get it, theres no real explanation of things... the priest of discord quest is not a true explanation of PVP,</p><p>The players need to be put through a small training quest line that explains exactly what immunity is, what they can loose if they die, pvp tokens, pvp gear, AA's and how to set anonymous and what it means in the options, so they don't get stalked by bored Gankers.</p><p>I am told on Vox there is even a guild called the Gank Squad that goes around doing exactly this.</p><p>The game right now is not new-player friendly when signing onto a pvp server. If you grief a New Player on a trial, chances are they will leave upset and never come back telling everyone else to not bother trying. Especially when in there trial account they can't trade or chat in 1 - 9 for help,</p><p>Hmm maybe thats an idea us older non-new players can help newer players? By enabling a Trial chat channel they can chat on and seek help? I mean... on each server there are countless of people willing to help newer players, I hand out bags on most days, but they don't want to help in a guide kind of way but in an actual legitimate, we want you to keep playing on this server kind of way.</p><p>Many of us know the decline in the population of new players on Nagafen, and I don't even have to mention Vox... Vox is in a chaotic mess with the freeport side out-numbered 5:1... and its said that warfields has turned into nothing  but a lot of qeynos waiting for updates... There has to be some changes implemented to assist in the image of EQ2 PVP servers to newer players, or they will just die out.</p>

Ralpmet
07-24-2010, 03:36 PM
<p>A simple fix is not letting trial accounts start on PvP servers, so the people get a feel for the game before entering into a grief fest.</p>

EndevorX
07-24-2010, 05:30 PM
<p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A simple fix is not letting trial accounts start on PvP servers, so the people get a feel for the game before entering into a grief fest.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Coooould be a good, simple fix before a thorough, quest-based tutorial could be introduced, indeed!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Except there would need to be an exception for recruit a friend accounts, as the assumption may be that they would have veteran instruction, or that they were a desired alternative account for a PvPer.</span></p>

Taldier
07-24-2010, 10:28 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A simple fix is not letting trial accounts start on PvP servers, so the people get a feel for the game before entering into a grief fest.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Coooould be a good, simple fix before a thorough, quest-based tutorial could be introduced, indeed!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Except there would need to be an exception for recruit a friend accounts, as the assumption may be that they would have veteran instruction, or that they were a desired alternative account for a PvPer.</span></p></blockquote><p>Or that they would be a temporary account being used to exploit faster xp gain?  lol</p><p>Obviously soe doesnt care but its still funny.</p>

Ralpmet
07-25-2010, 12:48 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A simple fix is not letting trial accounts start on PvP servers, so the people get a feel for the game before entering into a grief fest.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Coooould be a good, simple fix before a thorough, quest-based tutorial could be introduced, indeed!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Except there would need to be an exception for recruit a friend accounts, as the assumption may be that they would have veteran instruction, or that they were a desired alternative account for a PvPer.</span></p></blockquote><p>Or that they would be a temporary account being used to exploit faster xp gain?  lol</p><p>Obviously soe doesnt care but its still funny.</p></blockquote><p>You are quoting the chief exploiter of exploiters here.</p><p>But seriously, don't change any mechanics that don't need to be changed, haven't you people learned yet? "Please fix this" turns into "Nerf bat city".</p><p>The simplest solution is often the best solution, don't let trial accounts play on pvp servers. Thanks.</p>

EndevorX
07-27-2010, 04:27 AM
<p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A simple fix is not letting trial accounts start on PvP servers, so the people get a feel for the game before entering into a grief fest.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Coooould be a good, simple fix before a thorough, quest-based tutorial could be introduced, indeed!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Except there would need to be an exception for recruit a friend accounts, as the assumption may be that they would have veteran instruction, or that they were a desired alternative account for a PvPer.</span></p></blockquote><p>Or that they would be a temporary account being used to exploit faster xp gain?  lol</p><p>Obviously soe doesnt care but its still funny.</p></blockquote><p>You are quoting the chief exploiter of exploiters here.</p><p>But seriously, don't change any mechanics that don't need to be changed, haven't you people learned yet? "Please fix this" turns into "Nerf bat city".</p><p>The simplest solution is often the best solution, don't let trial accounts play on pvp servers. Thanks.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Your idea of a simple solution isn't a solution at all.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">It IS NOT an exploit to make a recruit a friend account to increase XP gain for yourself. If it was, hundreds of people would already be suspended or banned.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">While I appreciate the notoriety you might try to taint me with, Ralpmet, you are gravely mistaken in your slander against me.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">To you, it's a solution to let PvE players have this bonus for leveling, but to restrict this from PvPers, and that's purely ridiculous when a minor alteration could be included in this carebear fix for newbies that I also agree with, UNLESS it's a PvP player who has sent the recruit a friend invitation.</span></p>

Ralpmet
07-27-2010, 03:48 PM
<p>I don't think you understand what's going on here.</p><p>More time is more cost.</p><p>Adding 1 restriction is easier than adding entire content for one set of servers.</p><p>I've never used a raf to level any of my characters, and I know more people who haven't than have, and a lot of us feel like it's just exploiting the system. I don't care if there isn't a rule against it, we all know it's not right. There's a moral ground to walk and you took a low road, that's cool if they're not going to do anything about it but that doesn't make it right.</p><p>A real vet wants to help his friend? Help him through the 1-20 content on a pve server, then they can start on pvp and the guy will know what's going on generally from 1-20, hopefully be decently geared (newb quests give nice gear nowadays) and have a decent amount of aa's. You don't just drop some random guy who's never played before into a server where everyone who is going to engage you has spent a majority of the life of their toon at one level, just waiting outside the town to 1 shot you.</p><p>Thanks.</p>

Taldier
07-27-2010, 05:14 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">...</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">It IS NOT an exploit to make a recruit a friend account to increase XP gain for yourself. If it was, hundreds of people would already be suspended or banned.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">...</span></p></blockquote><p>Anyone can see that it IS an exploit.  Obviously soe has chosen not to penalize people for it, most likely because it inflates the number of accounts they have which makes them look good.  They also cannot absolutely prove beyond any doubt that you dont have a bunch of friends who you are inviting over to your house and making raf accounts for.</p><p>Simply because it is not considered a bannable offense doesnt change that it is an exploit.  It is an unintended use of a game mechanic for personal gain.  Clearly it is unintended because it is the "refer a friend" program.</p><p>If you are using it, and there are no friends involved, noone is being refered, and soe isnt being paid for a new account, but yet you are getting a personal xp bonus...thats fairly obviously an unintended use of the system.</p><p>On a side note, this thread has been totally derailed for the last page or so.</p>

thesiren
07-31-2010, 12:41 PM
<p>Olihin,</p><p>Thanks for taking the time to try and address our issues here.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  We love EQ2 and want open PvP here to succeed as much as you and SOE do.</p><p>Any form of XP locking, whether it be partial or complete, still allows the absurd inbalances of greys two-shotting newbies.  It has killed most every PvP server to the point where they've been shut down for good (Vox appears next), and it's been killing poor Naggy since it began here.</p><p>Why did SOE even bother making level range restrictions for the zones (Antonica, 4-level range etc.) when "the grey mafia" as someone here on the forums called it in another thread <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /> blows them all to heck?</p><p>I would really love an open PvP server in EQ2 where XP locking in ANY form is not allowed.  It would cut down on the insane racking up of AAs and twinked gear/spells a lot, and as such would contribute to a much higher and happier open PvP population overall. </p><p>Is this a possibility for the upcoming free-to-play version of EQ2?  Will they be setting up a separate open PvP server there, and if so, can we PLEASE just eliminate all XP locking there?</p><p>This is such a fabulous game in so many ways, it breaks my heart to see it all going to ruin over something so fixable.</p><p>I'll bet many of the players who want so desperately to leave Nagafen would wind up staying with alts if all XP locking was removed, never mind that more new players would come and stay.</p><p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;">Greetings,</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;">In regards to the AA slider, that is just a cosmetic issue that we can try to resolve in the future.   The other issue with not gaining PvP experience when locked is being corrected and should be live in the next update.   </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;">The newbie experience is difficult to ease into when on a PvP server.   I have done as much as possible to provide new players with the opportunity to gear up and be competitive.  Unfortunately, with a game that has veterans as far back as KoS when PvP started, the newbie landscape is no longer only filled with players that are all learning the game.   </span></p><p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: courier new,courier; color: #ff0000;"><span style="font-size: medium;">I am always open to suggestions and welcome all feedback on how we can make this even better. </span>  </span></p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote>

Bosconi
07-31-2010, 01:04 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">...</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">It IS NOT an exploit to make a recruit a friend account to increase XP gain for yourself. If it was, hundreds of people would already be suspended or banned.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">...</span></p></blockquote><p>Anyone can see that it IS an exploit.  Obviously soe has chosen not to penalize people for it, most likely because it inflates the number of accounts they have which makes them look good.  They also cannot absolutely prove beyond any doubt that you dont have a bunch of friends who you are inviting over to your house and making raf accounts for.</p><p>Simply because it is not considered a bannable offense doesnt change that it is an exploit.  It is an unintended use of a game mechanic for personal gain.  Clearly it is unintended because it is the "refer a friend" program.</p><p>If you are using it, and there are no friends involved, noone is being refered, and soe isnt being paid for a new account, but yet you are getting a personal xp bonus...thats fairly obviously an unintended use of the system.</p><p>On a side note, this thread has been totally derailed for the last page or so.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Seems like you and Ralpmet have taken it upon yourself to glorify some self righteous crusade.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">If it was an exploit, the inviting account wouldn't get a bonus for all their toons when grouped with the invited account.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">If it was an exploit, SOE would warn or suspend those petitioning about recruit a friend accounts they admit making for themselves.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Your idea that it "inflates the number of accounts they have" is completely ridiculous and warrantless.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">SOE doesn't report account statistics to us, and even if they did, they could easily tabulate fairly accurate statistics based upon active subscribers from unique IPs with 2 or 3 months activation.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">And no, this topic isn't derailed, because this is relevant discussion to the proposed suggestion that limiting trial accounts from PvP servers is a tenable option, despite how it would ruin the liberties for PvPers compared to PvEers.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">And thesiren, Vox is most likely dying because RMT Livegamer servers are just purely unpopular.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Maybe inadequate, passive faction balance systems might also be responsible, but who can really say! ;o</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">I definitely think you're confused and wrongfully disseminating misinformation and deception when you claim there are so many Nagafenians who would otherwise stay if level locking was removed when a large majority of them only have and obtain loyalty because of the freedom of choice TO level lock, absent the extreme time commitments of higher tiers.</span></p>

NolaDragon
07-31-2010, 01:12 PM
<p><cite>kallidon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1. Although the AA slider shows 100% - between lvl 10 and 30 it only works at 50% thus eliminating full locking at these levels. (unless this has changed in the past few days)</p><p>2. Any new player coming to nagafen should expect to have their @ss handed to them until they learn the PvP game.</p><p>3. Outside of ALL the PvP issues...SOE has made it rediculously easy to gear up, level AA and PvP ....VERY short learning curve now that they have completely dumbed everything down.</p><p>4. Anyone who cannot figure out how to compete on Nagefen should think about another server.</p><p> ** Note...I am a very casual player but love open world FULL PvP...please quit contributing to the destruction of PvP!!</p></blockquote><p>If this was awnserd in the 4 pages I didnt read ... but I saw Ohlin did not address it .... im sorry</p><p>The AA Slider set to 100% before level 30 bugs out , and will not give ANY AA for other than discoveries that I have noticed.   Thats why I have a lvl 34 with 28 AA's .... Im freakin PO'ed about it ... but oh well.</p><p>Newbies getting pawned by griefers or shall we call them token [Removed for Content] ... I have mixed feelings.</p><p>They have the same chance to go sit afk in a warfield at lvl 10 ... nuff said .... or maybe that needs fixing???</p>

thesiren
07-31-2010, 01:47 PM
<p>Bosconi,</p><p>The amount of players who have abandoned the open PvP servers  in this game (as evidenced by all those servers that have, ya know, CLOSED DOWN lol) far outweigh the few peeps left on Nagafen who like it there.  And check out the huge thread in this very forum full of peeps who want a one way ticket OFF Nagafen, lol, never mind all the continual comments from new players here who are totally put off by having to try and deal with all the XP lockers. </p><p>In most PvP games, the highbees will get you.  (And they don't get anything for it, unlike here, where they can not only grief you mercilessly but get money and drops for being gankers too.)  Here in EQ2's open PvP, both the highbees and the lowbies will get you, and when you feel like you don't have a chance against *anyone,* you quit the game for another game.</p><p>Maybe it is in fact time for a separate open PvP server without any form of XP locking allowed on it.  This new free-to-play model of EQ2 would be a great time to introduce it.</p><p>Then the few regular subscribers who like XP locking could stay on Nagafen, and the ones who don't would have a more normalized open PvP server to play on.</p>

NolaDragon
07-31-2010, 01:57 PM
<p>@thesiren :  Level locking is not a problem ... especially since before 30 they have a very limited amount of AA</p><p>I for one would be PO'ed if I could not level lock at 35 ..... Do you even play on a pvp server?   regularly???</p><p>Plz dont bring up old gripes in this world that might have been aleiviated and your not aware because you didnt take the time before you posted.</p>

NolaDragon
07-31-2010, 02:03 PM
<p>sorry siren ... ya nija posted me ... ya im slow<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I think transfer is the solution to the problem ... both ways though .... Id say dont allow plat to transfer ... but who am I kidding .... thats certainly not a problem the plat sellers cant circumvent.</p><p>Ah well ... each to their own.</p>

EndevorX
07-31-2010, 02:26 PM
<p><cite>thesiren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Bosconi,</p><p>The amount of players who have abandoned the open PvP servers  in this game (as evidenced by all those servers that have, ya know, CLOSED DOWN lol) far outweigh the few peeps left on Nagafen who like it there.  And check out the huge thread in this very forum full of peeps who want a one way ticket OFF Nagafen, lol, never mind all the continual comments from new players here who are totally put off by having to try and deal with all the XP lockers. </p><p>In most PvP games, the highbees will get you.  (And they don't get anything for it, unlike here, where they can not only grief you mercilessly but get money and drops for being gankers too.)  Here in EQ2's open PvP, both the highbees and the lowbies will get you, and when you feel like you don't have a chance against *anyone,* you quit the game for another game.</p><p>Maybe it is in fact time for a separate open PvP server without any form of XP locking allowed on it.  This new free-to-play model of EQ2 would be a great time to introduce it.</p><p>Then the few regular subscribers who like XP locking could stay on Nagafen, and the ones who don't would have a more normalized open PvP server to play on.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The minute amount of people complaining doesn't supercede the numbers of those enthralled that a return to valid gameplay longevity has brought forth hope in the land of Norrath.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">S</span><span style="color: #ff6600;">omething your false claim to credibility will miss is how </span><span style="color: #ff6600;">there are substantial majorities of people so consumed with actually enjoying the content that is level locked PvP from T4-T8, that they don't even COME to the forums.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Though there were threads that used to be 50+ pages on unloyal novices losing heart, that's because a large majority of them consisted of level lockers defending the cause that is liberty and longevity in approaching Norrath.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">If it's too much to harvest and craft below level 10, until you outfit yourself appropriately enough, then what can you really wonder about when it comes to the perseverance needed to succeed in PvP?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Regardless, for those without enough initiative to inquire on strategies fit to prepare a fresh newbie for PvP, there are good suggestions in this thread...such as tutorial-based quests on the basics, pre-T2.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">What's definitely a valid question asked by NolaDragon is: do you even play regularly on a PvP server?</span></p>

Lufei
08-14-2010, 05:49 PM
<p>I understand all sides of the fence here but for me and my party i can honestly say that dispite all the hubub getting back into the scene on nagafen with fresh characters with no assistance from upper alts we haven't had any issues lately. Granted our intent might be a bit evil but fair as we aren't stacking aa's and deadlocking levels simply a band of 5 players whom only ever play when all 5 are on for the whole safety in numbers concept lol.</p>

Lufei
08-17-2010, 09:29 PM
<p>Id like to officially revise my statements above. That was at lvl 10 with only 1-2 instances of fighting. My group of 5 have recently been dropped by 2 twinks of equal level, a twink of 1 lvl higher than us, and multiple instances of twinks running in and picking off one guy then the rest. We've even tryed to do the same, capitilizing on players twinked at identical levels, and we only do 1/7th the damage, they resist everything, and they bomb us to no end. It is completely stupid that a quarter healthed twink can kill 2-3 players a level lower.</p>

Chakos
08-18-2010, 09:20 AM
<p><cite>Lufei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Id like to officially revise my statements above. That was at lvl 10 with only 1-2 instances of fighting. My group of 5 have recently been dropped by 2 twinks of equal level, a twink of 1 lvl higher than us, and multiple instances of twinks running in and picking off one guy then the rest. We've even tryed to do the same, capitilizing on players twinked at identical levels, and we only do 1/7th the damage, they resist everything, and they bomb us to no end. It is completely stupid that a quarter healthed twink can kill 2-3 players a level lower.</p></blockquote><p>It is not stupid at all when you consider your previous statement about how you and your group are not stacking aa or locking levels: a casual group with low aa and average gear will not be able to do the same things as someone who has worked aa / geared up -- period. If you all had been working aa, doing what was needed to get the best gear for your level, upgrading all your skills to masters, etc, then a duo will not likely be able to stomp you like that -- unless, of course, they also have a much greater well on experience to draw on, which could result in the same outcome. The ones who pick you off one by one, taking off between each kill before returning, for example.</p><p>Sheer numbers should not be the deciding factor; removing time spent, actual skill, gear quality from the equation is a mistake and would be a greater issue by far.</p>

Lufei
08-18-2010, 07:50 PM
<p>We are mostly all vets from the start of the game and we have a great wealth of knowledge of the game, however none of that matters, we could be the most skilled players in the world, when someones gear out specs every single blow you deal them and every single spell you throw at them it's impossible.</p><p>It's like a band of regular players, 5 of them, are just normal soldiers.</p><p>And the twinker is friggen ironman. Don't matter how great are aim is, he just rips are limbs off and flys away on his carpet of plat. Not to mention these same people will follow you after you spawn griefing all your efforts to gain some leverage on him and his twinked friends via, questing/loot/or crafting.</p>

Crismorn
08-18-2010, 08:00 PM
<p><cite>BabyAngel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one who creates a new character is going to stay more than a day when they realize everyone their own level can hit them in two hits.</p><p>I visited Halas today to do some of the grey quests, and there were 5 Freeport just standing in the middle of one of the mountain areas by that bank just two hitting everyone they saw over and over, I invited them to my group so at least I could defend them. I felt sorry for them and the ones that spoke said they didn't plan on returning because of how unfair the system was</p><p>I have to agree with them,</p><p>I mean, you either have to make the whole newbie area immunity, or put the slider back to 50% so people can't make permanent characters to kill newbies when there bored.</p><p>Its really not helping keep the game alive.</p></blockquote><p>All of those players who are 2 shotting people are the same ones who get owned at 90 and had to re-roll lowbies in order to actually kill people.</p><p>Removing level ranges would eradicate all of those people</p>

EndevorX
08-18-2010, 08:12 PM
<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BabyAngel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one who creates a new character is going to stay more than a day when they realize everyone their own level can hit them in two hits.</p><p>I visited Halas today to do some of the grey quests, and there were 5 Freeport just standing in the middle of one of the mountain areas by that bank just two hitting everyone they saw over and over, I invited them to my group so at least I could defend them. I felt sorry for them and the ones that spoke said they didn't plan on returning because of how unfair the system was</p><p>I have to agree with them,</p><p>I mean, you either have to make the whole newbie area immunity, or put the slider back to 50% so people can't make permanent characters to kill newbies when there bored.</p><p>Its really not helping keep the game alive.</p></blockquote><p>All of those players who are 2 shotting people are the same ones who get owned at 90 and had to re-roll lowbies in order to actually kill people.</p><p>Removing level ranges would eradicate all of those people</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Do you even have PvP characters with over 1K kills?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">I see you troll about unrestricted LVL ranges of play too frequently, it makes me wonder if you're capable of critically considering how valid a business strategy it is to cater to a variety of gameplay styles.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">It's a lot more casual friendly to be equipped at lower tiers than higher ones.</span></p><p><strong><em><span style="color: #ff9900;">- E D I T -</span></em></strong></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Lol @ me beating Ralpmet by 1 m 23 sec</span></p>

Ralpmet
08-18-2010, 08:13 PM
<p>You don't even play on the fricken PvP server, don't post in this section.</p><p>Actually, if you look up the accounts of those who are doing it, they aren't "fail 90'S".  I looked up a group of people the other night and they all had 90's that were ranked fairly high in pvp. Go away troll, your input isn't valued here. </p><p>Edit: Sel beat me too it.</p>

Azekah1
08-19-2010, 11:12 AM
<p>Keep new players from pvping til they get to 90. They will love it when they get there.</p>

BabyAngel
08-21-2010, 10:05 PM
<p><cite>thesiren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Olihin,</p><p>Thanks for taking the time to try and address our issues here.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  We love EQ2 and want open PvP here to succeed as much as you and SOE do.</p><p>Any form of XP locking, whether it be partial or complete, still allows the absurd inbalances of greys two-shotting newbies.  It has killed most every PvP server to the point where they've been shut down for good (Vox appears next), and it's been killing poor Naggy since it began here.</p><p>Why did SOE even bother making level range restrictions for the zones (Antonica, 4-level range etc.) when "the grey mafia" as someone here on the forums called it in another thread <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /> blows them all to heck?</p><p>I would really love an open PvP server in EQ2 where XP locking in ANY form is not allowed.  It would cut down on the insane racking up of AAs and twinked gear/spells a lot, and as such would contribute to a much higher and happier open PvP population overall.</p><p>Is this a possibility for the upcoming free-to-play version of EQ2?  Will they be setting up a separate open PvP server there, and if so, can we PLEASE just eliminate all XP locking there?</p><p>This is such a fabulous game in so many ways, it breaks my heart to see it all going to ruin over something so fixable.</p><p>I'll bet many of the players who want so desperately to leave Nagafen would wind up staying with alts if all XP locking was removed, never mind that more new players would come and stay.</p><p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: "courier new", "courier"; color: #ff0000;">Greetings,</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: "courier new", "courier"; color: #ff0000;">In regards to the AA slider, that is just a cosmetic issue that we can try to resolve in the future.   The other issue with not gaining PvP experience when locked is being corrected and should be live in the next update.   </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: "courier new", "courier"; color: #ff0000;">The newbie experience is difficult to ease into when on a PvP server.   I have done as much as possible to provide new players with the opportunity to gear up and be competitive.  Unfortunately, with a game that has veterans as far back as KoS when PvP started, the newbie landscape is no longer only filled with players that are all learning the game.   </span></p><p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: "courier new", "courier"; color: #ff0000;"><span style="font-size: medium;">I am always open to suggestions and welcome all feedback on how we can make this even better. </span>  </span></p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Hey Siren, I actually like the idea of locking and the ability to get twinks, but not through the slider. Right now as it is we have conveys of lowbies following a mentored 90, and 20 hours later they are maxed aa. Then they characters are sent off to vox and sold for cash.</p><p>I think the slider is what really damaged PVP... It took away the idea of working on your character. Nw you just save up a bunch of PVP tokens by going AFK at stupid towers every few hours, mentor down to a lowbie and have them follow you around for a few hours. Then your maxed aa, in great gear that outdoes any of the PVE gear...</p><p>The slider was needed, and it was a great implementation... but the slider should only have been implemented for end-game. 80/200 and 90/250. It should not have been useable from level 30. SOE, Olihin and a few others made that call... I think it was a bad one. The AA was needed for end-game raiding, it was a feature designed for PVE that had drastic consequences for PVP, the only reason they pushed the 100% change was for battlegrounds. To be honest though I don't see so many PVP-server players in BG when I go there.... I can understand though, seeing as they can get more tokens to get some better gear by idling in immunity while they do the dishes...</p><p> The game was fine when locking was there, but when the need to quest and play though game content was removed... and AA's were handed out like candy. All you find is grey guilds like the one on Vox called "Gank Squad" the only ones active in open-world PVP.</p>

Azekah1
08-22-2010, 01:10 PM
<p><cite>thesiren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Then the few regular subscribers who like XP locking could stay on Nagafen, and the ones who don't would have a more normalized open PvP server to play on.</p></blockquote><p>I guarantee you if they opened one locked and one unlocked you would have more people on the locked server.</p>

Silverzx
08-22-2010, 01:55 PM
<p>this is now irrelevant since we are no longer gonna get any new players</p>

Erriondrivan
08-22-2010, 05:31 PM
<p><cite>Silverzx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>this is now irrelevant since we are no longer gonna get any new players</p></blockquote><p>correct</p>

Emolad
08-22-2010, 05:47 PM
<p><cite>dSilverzx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>this is now irrelevant since we are no longer gonna get any new players</p></blockquote><p>qfe</p>

EndevorX
08-22-2010, 07:16 PM
<p><div><p><cite>Bosconi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bosconi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is an old issue, and one of the reasons my original account is dusty and neglected.  Nagafen has always suffered a dearth of new players, even those who are experienced in the game, for a few reasons, but this is the biggest.  Allowing PvP at the entry point of the game was always a bad idea.  A new player doesn't get a warning.  They don't get a tutorial.  They just have a big "Kill Me" sign over their head.  <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>What is so ****ing hard about adding a tutorial that's mandatory at level 5 on a PvP server?</strong></span>  What was it, about three years ago it was asked for?  That, or to change the minimum level from 10 to 15.  Instead you got PvP XP introduced.  Nagafen & Venekor were merged, but the population is stagnant and dying the slow death of attrition.  But then maybe that's the goal.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The above is what I had been suggesting for a long, long time on my original account, searchable under Kurindor_Mythecnea.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">IMO, such a PvP-oriented tutorial would need specific quests to run the player through the motions, and it would need to contain all the advice I mentioned in this newbie's request for help at <a href="list.m?topic_id=482455">PvP at max level?</a> and in my PvP briefing.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">IIIIII also still think that the amount of players gained by allowing level locking will be more than those lost due to lacking resolve, by greenhorns, in efforts to be acquainted with successful strategies.</span></p></blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">If it's too much to harvest and craft below level 10, until you outfit yourself appropriately enough, then what can you really wonder about when it comes to the perseverance needed to succeed in PvP?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Regardless, for those without enough initiative to inquire on strategies fit to prepare a fresh newbie for PvP, there are good suggestions in this thread...such as tutorial-based quests on the basics, pre-T2.</span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The lack of dev concern for newbie awareness is out of control. The above is the solution that I mentioned I'd edit in! n_n</span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">So I was reviewing what Bosconi quoted, and it appeared relevant to me...</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">If the F2P model is ever made universal like it shoooould be with that whole </span><span><span><span><span style="color: #ffff00;"><strong><em><span style="color: #ffcc00;">Gold</span></em></strong></span></span></span></span><span style="color: #ff6600;"> plan being made equal to live servers (no race/level cap limits) and </span><span><span><span><span style="color: #ffff00;"><em><strong><span style="color: #e0e0e0;">Platinum</span></strong></em></span></span></span></span><span style="color: #ff6600;"> being given monthly Choose a Loot LoN loot cards[cut into illicit LoN market that cost's SOE profit] and double the SC stipend [1,000 monthly] to be a true bulk purchase discount of 50% instead of 10%, then...</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">...PvP servers would truly need a thorough quest-based tutorial that instructs them on how to actually compete, unlike the current predicament PvPing newbies are in.</span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Accolades herein are of merit, indeed!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The PvP tutorial system is in need of a drastic revamp, as it is very needy and desirous of much focus, as has been mentioned, for true player efficacy and success.</span></p></blockquote></div></p>