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Madmonte
07-07-2010, 08:52 PM
<p>Vox's death is coming.  More and more people selling toons.  Live gamer + PVP server brings serious merge issues.  Good players that pay good money are watching as the server is starting to melt away.  Devs please respond, as in January or December you are quoted as saying all servers population issues would get addressed a couple of months into the expansion.  Well here's your issue, whatcha gonna do about it, ignore it and let a server die, or find a way to save it?</p>

Sapphy
07-08-2010, 04:08 AM
<p>yea its pretty horrid here atm I wish the devs/gms would look at it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> but it seems they've limited visits to once a year.</p><p>The guild I'm in, Circle of heros, which was second and tied for second in guild progression just a few weeks ago has lost enough players recently that we've had to raid x2-3s the last couple weeks, and immortalis the main progression guild on the server has lost enough players that it is actively considering merge options with other guilds so they can keep up in progression.  Recruitment issues are becoming serious lately.  I really wish the problem was looked into, soo many ppl leaving now and so many more considering it.  Without immo freeport loses viable raid options, and pvp activity and world populations are dismal currently.  When venekor merged with nagafen at the time people were pushing for a vox merger too since we were in bad shape, and its much much worse than then.  Its hard to be calm about the issue with how bad its been allowed to become.  </p>

baldwinboy3
07-08-2010, 12:24 PM
<p>I have played vox for its first year to year and half and have long since left to nagafen but even back then it was frustrating when the server was lacking for targets. Could go afk anywhere in world pretty much and come back still alive.</p><p>I have thinking since BG's came out that I might roll a character on a pve server and just do bgs. I may go to near dead pve server to do this so i can have no one to compete with for farming! then i will simply get bg gear and bg pvp all the time.</p><p>I might be reaching here but i am trying to find things to keep me in the game.</p>

Madmonte
07-08-2010, 07:22 PM
<p>Yeah, Sapphyra glad to see you post here.  I am going to borrow some of your post from the EQ2flames forum....it was posted on June 16th, showing toons at 90.  Have a look.  The important thing to note here, is that both Vox and Bazaar (the lowest population servers) are live game servers.  Now I'm not going to say SOE screwed us by signing a contract with live gamer, as though the money from that was more important to them than the people that play on those servers, cuz that will get me nowhere.</p><p>If you want to see the stats without reading the rest of the plea, scroll to the bottom.</p><p>However, the numbers will speak for themselves, and note as well that since Vox and Bazaar are live gamer servers, buying/selling characters, although it does happen on other servers (illegally by SOE rules) does happen, it happens MORE on the live gamer servers.  So keep in mind that even the numbers you see from Vox and Bazaar here are low...they are even LOWER than that, because with people buying and selling, you ALSO have to look at the fact that more people on average on Vox have more than 1 90 toon.  And more than 2, and more than 3...more 90 toons per actual PLAYER than the average server, I mean. </p><p>And if you want to say, hey, well most people are playing on lowbies or something then?  Also false.  I'll go on a lowbie, and go from EL, to Zek, to Feerott, to Kingdom of Sky, to ROK...and it's all the same.  /who brings 1 player, maybe 2. </p><p>Only 4 months after an expansion, as well.  Which is usually still a very heated time historically on Vox, usually.  Usually people start filtering out closer to new Xpacs. </p><p>Warfields may have helped a little bit, but per the feedback all your gms have received, all warfields is, is a reason for people to sit on the dock because the Q to FP sides are so unbalanced, and there is nothing that can be done about THAT.  There are things to be done about the good players on servers LIKE Vox and Nagafen.  There ARE things the devs could do to save the servers.  It's crunch time, there are still enough accounts and players (that have been loyal to sony for a long time I might add) that it is worth it financially to save the server before even MORE people are posting on live gamer dropping the show.</p><p>The most disheartening was the leader, then the new leader, two of the top players on Vox, finally giving up.  One rolled to a different game, the other DID stay with SOE but is on a new server. </p><p>If you think we aren't worth saving, at least have the courtesy to tell me now, so all 12 of my toons, with 7 level 90 crafters that I built by my own hand WITHOUT buying, can at least be sold while there's still someone left to buy them.</p><p>1. <span style="color: cyan;">Antonia Bayle</span> 3,777 2. <span style="color: cyan;">Nagafen</span> 3,375 3. <span style="color: cyan;">Crushbone</span> 2,974 4. <span style="color: cyan;">Najena</span> 2,419 5. <span style="color: cyan;">Sebilis</span> 2,354 6. <span style="color: cyan;">Splitpaw</span> 2,332 7. <span style="color: cyan;">Guk</span> 2,261 8. <span style="color: cyan;">Blackburrow</span> 2,066 9. <span style="color: cyan;">Unrest</span> 2,036 10. <span style="color: cyan;">Permafrost</span> 1,962 11. <span style="color: cyan;">Butcherblock</span> 1,866 12. <span style="color: cyan;">Runnyeye</span> 1,853 13. <span style="color: cyan;">Everfrost </span>1,831 14. <span style="color: cyan;">Kithicor</span> 1,805 15. <span style="color: cyan;">Befallen</span> 1,797 15. <span style="color: cyan;">Nektulos</span> 1,797 17. <span style="color: cyan;">Oasis</span> 1,772 18. <span style="color: cyan;">Lucan DLere </span>1,744 19. <span style="color: cyan;">Mistmoore</span> 1,734 20. <span style="color: cyan;">Valor</span> 1,678 21.<span style="color: cyan;"> Storms</span> 1,493 22. <span style="color: cyan;">Innovation</span> 1,490 23. <span style="color: cyan;">The Bazaar</span> 1,254 24. <span style="color: cyan;"><strong>Vox </strong></span> 740 (yes less than 60% of the second to last server)</p>

Novusod
07-08-2010, 10:29 PM
<p>Vox is in worse shape because a lot of those 90s are inactive or alts. Guilds are falling appart because there are not enough players. PvP is a joke. Something needs to be done. Either some type of merger or change the PvP ruleset to FFA or something. Make people want to play on Vox.</p>

rockcoastie
07-09-2010, 10:24 AM
<p>MadMonte:  "So keep in mind that even the numbers you see from Vox and Bazaar here are low...they are even LOWER than that, because with people buying and selling, you ALSO have to look at the fact that more people on average on Vox have more than 1 90 toon.  And more than 2, and more than 3...more 90 toons per actual PLAYER than the average server, I mean. "</p><p>I can atest to this I myself have 2 level 90 characters.  Most people in my guild have at least 2 90s and some have 3-4.  So 700 something doesn't even begin to touch the number of "warm bodies" still on this server.</p>

EQPrime
07-09-2010, 11:32 AM
<p>Few people are interested in playing on a pvp server, and even fewer on an ebay server.  I can't say I'm surprised the server is dying.  Sony will probably have to do something so they don't lose all the subscriptions there, but people should have known better than to roll/buy a toon on that server.</p>

Madmonte
07-09-2010, 01:56 PM
<p>Yeah, and although I think BG was designed to get more people interested in PVP, perhaps to bring more players to PVP servers, it may have had the opposite effect, as now people that were more interested in the "dueling" aspect of the game can get their group pvp fixes there, without the need to roll on a pvp server.  (although, to bluebies that don't know, trust me, overland pvp is a MUCH different thing). </p><p>As for "should have known better", I can't help but agree to an extent, but when I first started on Vox about 2006, it was my first server and just a random one I chose...I didn't really know what "Exc" even meant lol...</p><p>But at THAT time, the server was decent, it was thriving to an extent.  But you know what kills PVP servers just a little bit?  Having more level range...going from 70-80, then 80-90 meant that there is more spread in players levelling up, in terms of what level they are.  So people coming to Vox hoping for PVP and rolling a new toon had less of it to find.  So even those actually INTERESTED in pvp become more discouraged as well, thinking there is none anyways, and give up and go back to their bluebie servers, this is a story I've heard more than once as well.</p><p>So now it becomes more and more increasingly difficult to get Vox's population BACK.  And as the situation gets worse and worse, the guys that DID love Vox in it's prime and DID want to be here...now a lot of them are looking for outs, and all we ask is that SOE finds a way to provide it.  We love the game too, but SO many of our guys are being driven away because of a dying population.</p>

Sapphy
07-09-2010, 09:30 PM
<p>Less people would rather play on an exchange or pvp server.. but I don't think that necessarily means you should have expected the server to have a significantly lower population, simply because there are tons of servers without those statuses and only a very small percentage of people need to be drawn to the pvp/exchange or not heavy population pvp concept for it to have a similar population as other servers (only 1/24 ppl need to).  Furthermore, I don't see why people keep saying that as a justification for its current state or not doing anything to help the server.  The population was stable before and their are not really many disclaimers when you enter the game that highlight the specifics of restrictions on vox gameplay going in for new players.  I guess you could argue that players should have recognized that eventually it would have a falling out, but that really goes for every server.  No one should have reasonably expected things to drop off this severely, and for the server to get this level of support, quite simply, because it shouldn't have imo. </p>

TheUnsungBand
07-10-2010, 09:50 AM
<p>Somethings needs to happen... Maybe they should make nagafen a exchange server and merge vox with it...  Vox is almost completely dead, probably wont last another year...  Dev's need to find some options other than re-rolling on another server...  That is not a solution, that will loose subscriptions for good...</p>

circusgirl
07-10-2010, 11:34 AM
<p>Maybe they should probably offer a period of free transfers to the bazaar for about a month for those that really enjoy the exchange server aspect, and then merge the server into nagafen.</p><p>They obviously wouldn't make Nagafen exchange if they merged you guys.  You're too outnumbered.</p>

brosif
07-10-2010, 03:18 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe they should probably offer a period of free transfers to the bazaar for about a month for those that really enjoy the exchange server aspect, and then merge the server into nagafen.</p><p>They obviously wouldn't make Nagafen exchange if they merged you guys.  You're too outnumbered.</p></blockquote><p>Good idea, although I find it very difficult that they would ever roll us into Naggy.  I would love to have it but I just think SOE wouldn't have it.  All I can really see happening is a full blown merger with The Bazaar.  I'd really like to see something happen.  It's sad seeing the server teatering near death.</p>

TheLopper
07-10-2010, 03:48 PM
<p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-size: 16px;"><strong><em><clipped></em></strong></span></span></p><p>Suffice all that to say- nobody wants to play on this ruleset, and thus the server CANNOT be saved.  Also, I highly doubt any characters will be migrated to other, non-pvp/Exc. servers, simply because they don't allow transfers to/from PvP servers, nor Exc. servers.  Vox will die, because nobody likes that ruleset.  That's all there is to it.</p>

Nuhus
07-10-2010, 05:12 PM
<p>since they sold the thing off to live gamer I'm not even sure they can do anything about as. It's probably live gamers problem not SOE. Probably doomed, sorry Vox.</p>

Madmonte
07-10-2010, 10:40 PM
<p>Yeah but is that a temporary contract or did live gamer flat out by the rights for Vox?  Because if it's a contract that can expire, then at the VERY least SOE must think twice about putting Vox back into that contract.</p>

Jrral
07-11-2010, 12:47 AM
<p><cite>Madmonte wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah but is that a temporary contract or did live gamer flat out by the rights for Vox?  Because if it's a contract that can expire, then at the VERY least SOE must think twice about putting Vox back into that contract.</p></blockquote><p>SOE contracted with LiveGamer to have them operate the Exchange servers. LG doesn't own the rights to them, they're just contractors. OTOH SOE can't terminate the contract until it's up, and they probably can't make the servers non-Exchange without terminating the contract. I doubt SOE can even merge the servers, that'd be taking one server away from LG that the contract promised them.</p><p>Realistically I think the situation's this: the majority of the EQ2 player base doesn't care for PvP and really doesn't care for RMT when it significantly affects gameplay in ways that aren't available through non-RMT means.That pretty much dooms Vox. The only way to save it I can see would be to convert it to a non-Exchange server and merge it with Nagafen, and I'm not sure even that'd do it since Nagafen's also a source of a lot of complaints about low population and there's not enough players on Vox to increase Naggy's population that much.</p>

Sapphy
07-11-2010, 07:08 PM
<p><cite>Madmonte wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah but is that a temporary contract or did live gamer flat out by the rights for Vox?  Because if it's a contract that can expire, then at the VERY least SOE must think twice about putting Vox back into that contract.</p></blockquote><p>I tried to find specifics of whether or not such a contract existed and what it entailed, but I can't seem to get a response from any authoritative sources on the issue yet <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The very least soe could do is nothing though hehe, not sure how to do less  than that.</p>

Madmonte
07-12-2010, 02:59 AM
<p>I would tend to agree that, especially from a scripting point of view, the merge with nagafen would be the easiest solution if you were looking at mergers as the major solution.  To script a pvp server into a pve server merge would not only require more time from devs (and time is money in that situation) than perhaps the Vox server is worth, and financially, that is understandable.</p><p>However the live gamer contract doesn't allow for that, of course...you DID seem pretty sure on some of the specifics of the contract, but the one question I certainly don't have an answer to, is if it is right in the contract that any characters made on the server are contracted to have to stay on the server.  If it is (and if livegamer, from their perspective, had the foresight, that certainly would be included in the contract), then naturally for any solution at all to occur, live gamer's contract with SOE would have to run out.</p><p>However, I don't necessarily believe that intantaneous merging is the definitive solution to the problem.  In previous conversations and posts about the subject it has been (correctly) pointed out to me that those mergers are messy, and often can cause many players frustration.</p><p>Player option is always the best solution...in other words allowing off-server transfers FROM vox to another server.  It does take a little more work from devs than regular transfers, but at least then the editing of characters can be done on an individual basis, and therefore attention to removing LG or PVP scripting issues would be more easily resolved.</p><p>Note that I said PVP issues as well.  You are right...perhaps Nagafen isn't the choice that Nagafen players want, or Vox characters want.  I think it is time that they finally found a way for PVP to PVE transfers, and vice versa to occur as well.  I truly hope that, for the case of people that either would like to move to a PVP server or off one, that devs would seriously consider finding a way to make that a viable option for their diligent players.</p>

Jrral
07-12-2010, 05:16 AM
<p><cite>Madmonte wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>However the live gamer contract doesn't allow for that, of course...you DID seem pretty sure on some of the specifics of the contract, but the one question I certainly don't have an answer to, is if it is right in the contract that any characters made on the server are contracted to have to stay on the server.</p><p>Player option is always the best solution...in other words allowing off-server transfers FROM vox to another server.  It does take a little more work from devs than regular transfers, but at least then the editing of characters can be done on an individual basis, and therefore attention to removing LG or PVP scripting issues would be more easily resolved.</p></blockquote><p>The contracting stuff I'm pretty sure of because I've dealt with contracts in general before and that kind of thing is inevitably standard and/or a matter of law (in general neither party can just up and unilaterally end a contract, they either have to fully perform per the contract or the contract has to allow for early termination and they have to fulfill the requirements for it). I doubt that the contract specifies that characters have to stay on the server, but it's SOE policy not to allow transfers from LG to non-LG servers. That's mainly because on non-LG servers there's an expectation that you got your gear and levels and such by doing the content needed to get them. That conflicts with the environment on LG servers, where a level 90 character with T3 raid gear may have been bought yesterday by a player with no experience whatsoever but enough money to burn. SOE decided to, for the non-LG servers, maintain the rule that (at least when it comes to things that significantly affect playing your character) it doesn't matter how rich you are in real life, only how well you can play in the game. I don't see them breaking that rule anytime soon. It'd cost them too many players on the non-LG servers.</p><p>As for PvP-to-PvE transfers, as I understand it one issue is the server code, character data and database itself. The PvP servers literally run slightly different code from the PvE servers, and there's items in the PvP server database that don't exist on the PvE servers. Moving a character from a PvE server to a PvP one (eg. via /testcopy) is straightforward, albeit subject to occasional glitches that corrupt the character data, but going the other way you have to deal with things a character may own that simply don't exist at the destination. Think of it this way: you can fit a 2" diameter round peg into a 2" square hole, you just won't completely fill the hole, but trying to put a 2" square peg into a 2" diameter round hole can't be done because where parts of the peg go there just isn't any hole. The devs have to come up with an automated way of converting PvP character data into something the PvE servers can understand, while at the same time shaving off those parts of the character data that just don't have places to exist in PvE without completely messing up the character in the process. It's probably doable, but from the technical side probably nobody's looked into what exactly it'll require and I can pretty much guarantee you some of the decisions required will be political, not technical (eg. does PvP faction gear just disappear or does it get replaced with something else, and if so exactly what replaces it?).</p>

Sapphy
07-12-2010, 02:57 PM
<p>There probably is some minor technical issues that may have to be examined, but I also don't think it should be too difficult to transfer characters from pvp to pve and vice versa, especially if they actually take the time to sort out the minor issues or make it so characters transferring are slightly recoded when they do to match the new server.  Server coding is already mostly the same and it doesn't seem difficult to reconcile the two.  BGs already converts players from pve and pvp servers into a similar format and allows those characters to return to their servers, and at the start of when bgs was actually first introduced there were people as well that actually used the bgs to transfer out of pvp servers to pve servers with little to no problems I believe.  Then when they were caught they were transferred back as well.  So I think the technical issues of the transfers are a bit exaggerated, I think there is already some evidence it can work, at least, for the character itself.  </p><p>While I am unsure of contract specifics, if they do exist, its been a persistent rumour on vox for like ever though... Restricting lg servers from transfers because of gear reasons just makes little sense anymore.  Especially since the gear level of the server is so much below the average gear level of other servers because of its diminished raid potential.   Its not protecting non lg servers at all really, and especially seems unbeneficial compared to the cost of having this server remain without assistance/response.  Merging the server or having a one time transfer option as well takes away any chance of players preemptively using that status to gear up characters.  </p><p>i really don't think doing nothing with this server is justifiable... but if it is, and that is really their intent I wish I heard it from soe directly...</p>

Madmonte
07-12-2010, 03:29 PM
<p>Well, raid gear can't be bought.  Strip us of our plat, our masters, leave the gear intact?  Or tell the players flat out, hey, the only thing you can keep is your aa and your level, other than that, you are coming over naked...with nothing.</p><p>Then it's the players' choice, and it does make the choice a tougher one, but at least it completely removes those levels of unfairness you are correctly referring to.</p>

Sapphy
07-12-2010, 03:31 PM
<p>Yea they might do that with the masters and plat... but it still seems unfair that they would make it harder for players here to achieve the benefits they should already be getting...</p><p>edit: I guess immortalis is pretty much officially dead now? <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> like half of their players left server/game in the last week...</p>

brosif
07-14-2010, 12:00 AM
<p>Another major player gone.  Would be nice to hear some sort of feedback from the powers that be.</p>

Novusod
07-14-2010, 04:46 AM
<p>Vox's main progression guild collapsed partly because there is too little interest in Vox and not enough players to maintain a hardcore raid guild. If one person quits on Vox it is a huge deal because that person can't be replaced and in their absence it just leaves a huge hole in the raidforce. If you put enough holes in that raidforce it will sink just like the Titanic. One moment Immortalis was king of Vox raiding and then the next it is a rusting hulk sunk on the bottom of ocean. A whole guild worth of players most of them highly skilled and very dedicated to the game all called it quits. SoE needs to wake up and realize how bad things really are here and do something about it.</p><p>Give people a reason to play on Vox. If Vox's ruleset is unpopular than this is a no-brainer: <span style="color: #ff0000;">change the ruleset</span>. Allow PvE -> Vox transfers and change the PvP rules to FFA as opposed to the current unballanced RvR rules.</p>

Xoddy
07-14-2010, 02:11 PM
<p>If there arent enough players on vox then PVP is dead. People should come to bazaar for a short term fix. Just allow free transfers. It wont affect LG because the player base will be the same. It would be nice to see more mergers but they may just let the exchange servers die... sucks I just came back and the game is really dead atm. When this happened in eq1 merges followed shortly. please merge servers devs!Also advertising the game will bring in new players. There is always new people just getting into gaming who would play.</p>

Daemondred
07-14-2010, 05:15 PM
<p>People hope for a merger with the bazaar. . If they decided to do it, they still have the pvp / Pve Issue to work around how to seperated players who want to pvp from players who do not. Several Options i can see here.</p><p>1. Go SWG style and give everyone a flag/unflag button, with a 5 minute timer before you become unflagged.</p><p>2. Install an NPC who permanently flags your toon for pvp</p><p>3. Divide up the cities, Citizenship in freeport and qeynos for PvE Players. Citizenship in Neriak / Kelethin / Haven flags you for PvP. Citizens in freeport and qeynos would still be able to Join guild on either side, while Neriak / Kelethin citizens would not.</p><p>Funny thing about option 3 is the newly merged server would probably see an influx of the less than hardcore players from nagafen, who would come over for the ability to level a toon on the PVE side then switch it to the PvP side.</p><p>Any one of the three would make a Vox / Bazaar merger viable.</p>

Sapphy
07-15-2010, 03:32 PM
<p><cite>Xoddy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> It would be nice to see more mergers but they may just let the exchange servers die....</p></blockquote><p>You know, more and more I'm starting to think this may be the case <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I'm not sure how it would work though, even by continuing to neglect the players here eventually it will just reach a point where there is a small but static population on vox, since even on dead servers not everyone is going to leave.  They would still have to deal with the problem of dealing with the remaining players then.  But it seems like it would have been easy enough to give the server here some kind of response now in this amount of time...</p>

Hau
07-16-2010, 01:51 PM
<p>With all this talk of F2P running around, I wonder if it would be a valid option for Vox you think? I mean I like the ideas of alternate ruleset PVP and stuff, and even allowing anybody to transfer to here, but from the looks of it, it seems like the route they're taking is to let server slowly die out.</p><p>Since it's pretty much official that we can't be merged with anyone while the server is contracted to LG, and there's no word on how long this indefinite contract is, I think making a change to the server like this would be the best idea.</p><p>Now I have no clue how SoE would implement F2P, and I've never played a F2P game, so it's a shot in the dark for me, but maybe it's an option that would be attractive to some people.</p><p>I mean it's a server where you can technically make money, so SoE might not even consider something like this, but hey if I sell some stuff and make 20 bucks, and then I have to buy some beastly item for 20 in game, well I'd call that a win for both LG and SoE.</p><p>I'm glad this isn't flames or I'd come out with 3rd degree burns just for saying something like this, but let me know what you guys think, and hopefully I don't rub some of you the wrong way with with my debut post, heh.</p>

Barx
07-16-2010, 02:05 PM
<p>My guess is that Vox will eventually be merged in with the Bazaar, which will be left PVE (meaning there will be no exchange PVP server). Given the already low population on Vox, I just don't see them putting in a huge amount of effort to make the Bazaar both PVP and PVE or otherwise reinvent Vox. The option of EQ1-esque pvp flagging for the Bazaar (where you chose to go PVP and then care forever stuck that way) is the only option I could see them taking to keep exchange PVP; although it's not the same as a regular PVP server, it'd probably beat nothing.</p><p>Since it's exchange, there's nowhere else for Vox to go (LiveGamer aside, allowing a merge or transfers out effectively brings exchange to the other server(s), which people generally don't want).</p>

Sapphy
07-16-2010, 08:02 PM
<p>Here's another graph I made btw detailing raiding progression of different servers from the information on <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.guildprogrss.com" target="_blank">www.guildprogrss.com</a> as of 7/16/2010.</p><p><img src="http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss223/mechanicaxii/SSBB/ServerRaiding.jpg" /></p><p>edit: also here is the original graph i made from the other thread looking at lvl 90 players per server from the eq2players database around 6/15/2010.  </p><p><img src="http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss223/mechanicaxii/SSBB/VOX1a.jpg" /></p>

Jrral
07-16-2010, 08:09 PM
<p><cite>Sapphyra wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Here's another graph I made btw detailing raiding progression of different servers from the information on <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.guildprogrss.com" target="_blank">www.guildprogrss.com</a> as of 7/16/2010.</p></blockquote><p>From that chart it seems like the problem isn't so much PvP as Exchange. To be honest that doesn't surprise me.</p>

Sapphy
07-16-2010, 08:26 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sapphyra wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Here's another graph I made btw detailing raiding progression of different servers from the information on <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.guildprogrss.com" target="_blank">www.guildprogrss.com</a> as of 7/16/2010.</p></blockquote><p>From that chart it seems like the problem isn't so much PvP as Exchange. To be honest that doesn't surprise me.</p></blockquote><p>Yea I could definitely see that <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> both the bazaar and vox place pretty consistently low, and Nagafen has shown that pvp only servers can be pretty healthy raid and population-wise I think.</p><p>edit: but whatever the the problem i hope our server can get help.</p>

Sevvy
07-17-2010, 02:12 PM
<p>Yeah but honestly part of that is simply that Nagafen was able to have servers merge into it, so you are right, exchange is a problem not only because many players choose not to play there, but also because it blocks merger chances.</p>

BabyAngel
07-18-2010, 09:24 AM
<p><p>Just wanted to point out that there is quiet a few people playing who don't raid or plan to ever goto 90, keep that in mind when looking at the low population. There are also quiet a few people who still don't have the expansion.....</p><p>Vox does have a very low population, but please don't be judging the whole server off polls of who is 90 and who isn't and who has raided and who hasn't. Thats not a fair view of the server as a whole and it just plain stupid, thats just a view of who is a hardcore player and who isn't.</p><p>Thats like saying because I decided not to level and because I haven't leveled I can't get raid groups for raid zones that I do not exist or count towards the games population.</p><p>Whatever SOE decides I really hope they don't merge us with nagafen, although some of you may really like that, there are quiet a few people who don't want to be killed in every single zone they go in, and who don't want to be in a hardcore pvp server.</p><p>If I had a choice I would move off to a  happy pvp-free life. I just don't want to start over since I will never be able to level a guild up to 30 again on my own, since all the people who helped have since left the game.</p></p>

Sapphy
07-18-2010, 03:59 PM
<p>The point of looking primarily at lvl 90s wasn't to necessary give a precise estimate of the number of toons on the server but the comparative activity level of the server.  There are of course players with toons below 90s, but I really doubt there is a huge amount of lowbie toons over other servers to make up for the lacking high end populations.  Lower lvl populations on vox are pretty much dead too. Why use 90s?  Because being lvl 90 requires a significant amount of activity since the expansion to get to that lvl (and most consistently active players do have at least one lvl 90, it doesn't take too obscene of an amount of time if your not locked if you play regularly...).  Therefore we can safely take away the thousands of inactive 80s, 70s, and 60s on the server that got lvld up but then quit out before the expansion.  Looking at anything below 30s is also a bad indication of activity since, by far, toons in those lvls are more inactive than not, and even the ones that are active are ones that are generally toons of other players or are ppl who just started the game.  Higher lvl characters generally ties into higher activity characters, since there is a direct relationship between how active you are and what lvl you are, even if its not totally precise.  Looking at 90s also gives a good indication of the raid potential of the server, how comparatively equipped players are to other servers, and can give better indications of the current health of the community.  Is it exactly precise? NO!  But it is the best estimate we can use I think, and its not meant to stand alone, ideally it would motivate the devs/gms to look at the community itself to gain information on the issue and make their own determinations, but we all know that won't ever happen.  </p><p>The point is that this server is consistently (in objective assessments of server health) doing not just poorly but significantly worse than any of the other servers.  Being on vox I can't see how this would be hard to see, major guilds have or are falling apart, more ppl are leaving all the time, pvp and outdoor populations are dismal both at high and low lvls comparatively to other servers.  </p><p>As for mergers the best they could do imo is to merge the server with either nagafen or the bazaar and give a transfer option to the the other one, or just to open up transfers in general to the pve/pvp/exchange servers, I think that would give people more options in retaining the gameplay they want... either way I just hope they do something.  Of course you must realize though that people who picked a pvp server and don't like pvp is not really a population segment that soe should be focusing on...</p>

BabyAngel
07-19-2010, 08:21 AM
<p>What about all those people who still are yet to reach 90, what about all those people who refuse or have not yet bought the expansion.</p><p>There are more low levels on right now than their are 90s, by the way. including many in the 80s trying to get to 90. No not all of them have 90 alts. Some don't even have 80 alts. I have one friend who rolls a new character every few weeks because she just gets bored.</p><p>Everyone plays this game in a way that is most enjoyable for them. Just because they are not playing your way, which is getting to 90 and going o 90 raids, that doesn't mean they don't count towards the population. Right now I just looked up over half of the people in the /who on the eq2 and over half of those online right now are below 90.</p><p>Yes Vox has a severe population crisis right now,  and yes something needs to be done and most likely will be done if they can sort out the things with live-gamer.</p><p>Exchange isn't the real problem I don't think, most people who play on Vox actually really like the exchange and use it. One major flaw in LiveGamer and the exchange is that it hasn't been opened up to people outside of America. People play on Vox, realize they can't use the exchange and then leave to other servers, not all of EQ2 is from America.</p><p>Thats why all the Australian guilds (Around 200 players) moved to Nagafen. they were dis-advantaged on Vox not being able to use the exchange while their competitors could. Perhaps that maybe the first step in making The exchange and Vox more attractive.</p>

Sapphy
07-19-2010, 02:23 PM
<p><cite>BabyAngel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What about all those people who still are yet to reach 90, what about all those people who refuse or have not yet bought the expansion.</p><p>There are more low levels on right now than their are 90s, by the way. including many in the 80s trying to get to 90. No not all of them have 90 alts. Some don't even have 80 alts. I have one friend who rolls a new character every few weeks because she just gets bored.</p><p>Everyone plays this game in a way that is most enjoyable for them. Just because they are not playing your way, which is getting to 90 and going o 90 raids, that doesn't mean they don't count towards the population. Right now I just looked up over half of the people in the /who on the eq2 and over half of those online right now are below 90.</p></blockquote><p>If you looked on /who you would have to look not only at who is currently on a lvl 90 but who is on and also has a lvl 90 toon and not just by looking at non anonymous players to say that most players don't have at least 1 lvl 90 toon (which i still believe)....  but regardless-</p><p>We actually agree on more points that you are bringing up then you think <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  although I do think there is just as much ppl drawn to the pvp aspect as there is the lg population.</p><p>I'm not saying players below 90 don't count towards Vox's population.  I'm not saying everyone plays the game the same way <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />  please understand this.  I'm saying that there is no way to fairly estimate players in that lvl range without also including many more inactive toons in those lvls, and skewing comparative purposes.  The point of using lvl 90s <em>isn't</em> to give an exact estimate of the population, its to give a comparative estimate of activity to other servers.  Lvl 90 means players would have to have been considerably active since the expansion a few months ago.  Below lvl 80 means players could have been active anywhere since the server formation in 2006 and dropped off since then.  A large percentage of total toons made are not active... I believe the amount is even below 1%.  Most lvl 90 characters as well have a bunch of lower toons that skew lower numbers as well...  Looking at lvl 90s is a fairer estimate of player counts, and it also gives indications into the potential of players for equipment and raiding on the server.  So I'm not saying at all that there isn't some percentage of players who don't have higher lvl toons and have no intention of getting toons to high lvls... I'm estimating that the percentage of lower lvl toons is at least somewhat similar on vox to other servers and that looking at lvl 90s is a fair assessment of how the server compares to other server activity.  Like I said before, its not 100% exact, but its probably the best estimate we have, and its not meant to stand alone its supposed to provoke a response from ppl who can look into it themselves to confirm it and help the server.  The point is to highlight that vox's population is doing comparatively bad, not that is has whatever number of active players.</p>

Rigid
07-19-2010, 09:49 PM
<p><span style="font-family: Calibri;"><p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-size: small;">As I stated before in a post like this about Vox. It is not the fact that VOX's exchange failed it's the fact that SOE did such a horrible job policing account and plat selling on other servers.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>The selling of items and characters was supposed to be unique to the two exchange servers but it never really was. It's not hard to buy plat or accounts with toons on them. So why bother playing on a server that is limited because of LG yet has no uniqueness because of it. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-size: small;">This expansion sucked as far as challenge in heroic content. The raid mobs were an absolute joke really. I mean a good X3 of mid 80's could clear Lair of the Dragon Queen and entry level raid mobs as soon as the expack came out. While there are some hard raid content it is nothing like before where guilds worked to figure out how to kill the content. Even TSO where there was no level increase introduced more challenging and enjoyable raid content than SF did. So people who do enjoy the PVE side of the game are bored with the game. </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-size: small;">Then we have BGS wow what an awesome concept!! Then the ball was dropped with SOE rewarding failure then making the items so cheep. I mean most people had full sets in less than two months. Then they made that junk by creating the challenger set. </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-size: small;">Next came warfields. Once again great idea, but rewarding failure again made it mean nothing to actually fight. What made it even worse was the amount of tokens people received at first. This guaranteed everyone had PVP gear really fast. Why fight with no reward at all. Yeah killing each other was fun but after you had all PVP items you wanted there was no real reason to go its not like your preventing the other faction from gaining tokens by blocking them. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>So people who love the pvp are bored.</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-size: small;">SOE failed on this expansion and VOX is just the first causality of that failure. Boring heroic content, dumb BG and warfield reward/failure ratios, and no uniqueness of the servers exchange option are the reason for it dying. These are the same thing that people from VOX have been complaining about since early on in the expansion. At this point I doubt there is anything to save the population. Of the 762 90's on vox several of them have been sold in the last two weeks. Not to new players I am sure but to people already there that may or may not ever even play the character. We have tons of people leaving right now and no one new joining. </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-size: small;">SOE could have saved it months or even years ago when people were posting concerns here but instead they chose to ignore the issue. Now the people who have held on to VOX for years will be the ones that suffer for their lack of effort or caring about the server. </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"> </p></span></p>

Sapphy
07-22-2010, 03:02 PM
<p>I know soe is pretty much intentionally ignoring this server at this point <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, but I'm bumping this thread in the hopes they'll take an active interest in the players here.  </p><p>Here also is a screenshot of the topic listed in eq2flames about vox.  notice how many times sale or selling comes up lately? Generally morale is shot to pieces, please help our server, I would really like to be able to enjoy the game like players from other servers have been allowed to instead of having to quit.</p><p><img src="http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss223/mechanicaxii/SSBB/eq2flamesmorale2.jpg" /></p>

Madmonte
07-22-2010, 11:12 PM
<p>Hey Devs, read what sapphyra JUST posted...if that doesn't say it all, then what does?  Give us a response, for the love of all that's holy!</p>

Axistio
07-24-2010, 08:17 PM
<p>Woo go Sapp I was planning on making posts such as this one but ya beat me to it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> so BUMP let our voices be heard and even more so the voices of SoE</p>

Rigid
07-25-2010, 08:31 PM
<p>Looks like they don't even care. If they did they would acknowlegde the fact that there is an issue.</p>

Rothgar
07-26-2010, 02:51 PM
<p>We've been discussing our server transfer policies over the past couple of weeks but don't have anything to announce yet.  We've commented on this subject in the past and are aware of the desires for people to have more open transfer policies between PvP/PvE and LG/Standard servers.  As soon as we have something to tell you, it will be announced.  But for now, understand that your voices are heard.</p>

Barx
07-26-2010, 03:06 PM
<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We've been discussing our server transfer policies over the past couple of weeks but don't have anything to announce yet.  We've commented on this subject in the past and are aware of the desires for people to have more open transfer policies between PvP/PvE and LG/Standard servers.  As soon as we have something to tell you, it will be announced.  But for now, understand that your voices are heard.</p></blockquote><p>My 2cp: PVP<-->PVE is ok, bring PVP items that are raid-quality to PVE is not (itemless transfers maybe? Something that when you land you have a level-appropriate small amount of coin and a level-appropriate MC-quality armor & jewelry or tokens to buy said?).</p><p>LG --> standard is not ok. I know it's tough to figure out what to do with Vox, but I know that there's plenty of folks like myself that believe that transferring from an exchange server to a regular server is unacceptable, then you might as well make them all exchange.</p>

Aurel
07-26-2010, 03:10 PM
<p>As long as Vox can come to Bazaar, I'm cool with whatever goes on!  I just want that gosh darn PVP book...</p>

Sapphy
07-26-2010, 03:13 PM
<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We've been discussing our server transfer policies over the past couple of weeks but don't have anything to announce yet.  We've commented on this subject in the past and are aware of the desires for people to have more open transfer policies between PvP/PvE and LG/Standard servers.  As soon as we have something to tell you, it will be announced.  But for now, understand that your voices are heard.</p></blockquote><p>Wow, this is really great to hear, thank you so much for responding! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Neiloch
07-26-2010, 03:14 PM
<p>Maybe, if they have a way to track this, they can allow people who haven't participated in a LG type transaction for a set amount of time are allowed to be transferred. Like a month or two, so people just can't use the LG server as a purchase and transfer hub for all servers. PvP to PvE I think they would just have to nuke the PvP items in the transfer. Knowing this people can just sell them or do something else to them before they do the transfer. Maybe a PvP/PVE gear exchange merchant.</p>

Yimway
07-26-2010, 03:17 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LG --> standard is not ok. I know it's tough to figure out what to do with Vox, but I know that there's plenty of folks like myself that believe that transferring from an exchange server to a regular server is unacceptable, then you might as well make them all exchange.</p></blockquote><p>I have no problem with LG --> standard as long as the toon was created by the current account holder.</p><p>I don't care if they bought gear, just so long as they actually played it and understand it.</p><p>PVE <---> PVP is a no brainer.   The only answer I've ever heard on why this wouldn't be done is cause it would potentially kill the pvp game.  And if it does, that pretty much just means the pvp game is broken to start with.</p>

Gungo
07-26-2010, 03:23 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We've been discussing our server transfer policies over the past couple of weeks but don't have anything to announce yet.  We've commented on this subject in the past and are aware of the desires for people to have more open transfer policies between PvP/PvE and LG/Standard servers.  As soon as we have something to tell you, it will be announced.  But for now, understand that your voices are heard.</p></blockquote><p>My 2cp: PVP<-->PVE is ok, bring PVP items that are raid-quality to PVE is not (itemless transfers maybe? Something that when you land you have a level-appropriate small amount of coin and a level-appropriate MC-quality armor & jewelry or tokens to buy said?).</p><p>LG --> standard is not ok. I know it's tough to figure out what to do with Vox, but I know that there's plenty of folks like myself that believe that transferring from an exchange server to a regular server is unacceptable, then you might as well make them all exchange.</p></blockquote><p>The fact you can already farm on a regular server and send that toon to a live gamer server. The fact the the third party site such as player auctions or the dozens of plat sites has a thriving buisiness really doesnt support your theory of regular server not being exchange to a degree. Honestly the game is losing a ton of players through normal attrition and hard nose blind stances such as the one you portray does nothing to alleivate the problems. Allowing live gamer servers to trasnfer from a live gamer server to a pve server or PVP server and vice versa adds the same third wall that currently exists already on a regular server. It should be allowed with all the same rules that currently exsist except that the future should allow pvp<>pve trasnfers and LG<>pvp/pve. There is no gear gap between the servers in fact the opposite is true, people sell thier toons on livegamer because they farm gear easier on regular servers.</p>

Barx
07-26-2010, 03:26 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LG --> standard is not ok. I know it's tough to figure out what to do with Vox, but I know that there's plenty of folks like myself that believe that transferring from an exchange server to a regular server is unacceptable, then you might as well make them all exchange.</p></blockquote><p>I have no problem with LG --> standard as long as the toon was created by the current account holder.</p><p>I don't care if they bought gear, just so long as they actually played it and understand it.</p><p>PVE <---> PVP is a no brainer.   The only answer I've ever heard on why this wouldn't be done is cause it would potentially kill the pvp game.  And if it does, that pretty much just means the pvp game is broken to start with.</p></blockquote><p>Regarding LG --> standard, that would be an ok compromise, although ideally I would still not want any LG --> standard transfers, at least not with any items or coin if you've RMT'd; if you never bought or sold a single thing then I wouldn't mind one bit. A sufficiently long cool-down on any <em>items</em> bought or sold (say 1 year?) would also be acceptable to me (1 year later, the items are unlikely to matter much).</p><p>I'm a strong believer in the "you earn it" principle, I don't even like people  buying raid loot if they've never killed the mob (on that account, not necessarily character). I know I'm in a minority there, but RMT is much worse than in-game coin.</p>

kukubird
07-26-2010, 03:29 PM
<p>More RMT goes on on the regular servers then the exchange.  Just go look at feedback of all the non sanctioned sellers on other sights and how much they sell per day.</p><p>With facebook and social games RMT is not as taboo as it was 15 years ago.  In fact most people have bought virtual goods at one time or another.  Yes, you still have a very few very vocal people screaming bloody murder and evil when it comes to RMT.  They tend to be the ones who are rich in time but not real world money.  They also give the impression they are 99% of the community when they no longer are, or maybe never were.</p><p>If you would rather see more innovation and development and less of this <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.massively.com/2010/07/16/soe-layoffs-detailed-eqii-and-vanguard-affected/" target="_blank">http://www.massively.com/2010/07/16...guard-affected/</a></p><p>stop pretending RMT doesnt happen, stop pretending you can stop it.... what can be done is the money from RMT can go towards more development.</p><p>Edit ** That being said, allow transfers from all pve to all pve livegamer enabled or not.  Also allow transfers from the 2 pvp servers. </p><p>If something isnt done soon, well like a year ago would have been best, people are just going to slip away.  People play mmos for the massive part... when you have 40 freeport players on during prime time on a server that isnt massive.  Merge and use the player population as your content.  Ignore the harsh player populations and see a fast death of each server except for the most populated.</p>

Barx
07-26-2010, 03:30 PM
<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We've been discussing our server transfer policies over the past couple of weeks but don't have anything to announce yet.  We've commented on this subject in the past and are aware of the desires for people to have more open transfer policies between PvP/PvE and LG/Standard servers.  As soon as we have something to tell you, it will be announced.  But for now, understand that your voices are heard.</p></blockquote><p>My 2cp: PVP<-->PVE is ok, bring PVP items that are raid-quality to PVE is not (itemless transfers maybe? Something that when you land you have a level-appropriate small amount of coin and a level-appropriate MC-quality armor & jewelry or tokens to buy said?).</p><p>LG --> standard is not ok. I know it's tough to figure out what to do with Vox, but I know that there's plenty of folks like myself that believe that transferring from an exchange server to a regular server is unacceptable, then you might as well make them all exchange.</p></blockquote><p>The fact you can already farm on a regular server and send that toon to a live gamer server. The fact the the third party site such as player auctions or the dozens of plat sites has a thriving buisiness really doesnt support your theory of regular server not being exchange to a degree. Honestly the game is losing a ton of players through normal attrition and hard nose blind stances such as the one you portray does nothing to alleivate the problems. Allowing live gamer servers to trasnfer from a live gamer server to a pve server or PVP server and vice versa adds the same third wall that currently exists already on a regular server. It should be allowed with all the same rules that currently exsist except that the future should allow pvp<>pve trasnfers and LG<>pvp/pve. There is no gear gap between the servers in fact the opposite is true, people sell thier toons on livegamer because they farm gear easier on regular servers.</p></blockquote><p>Standard --> LG has no impact on regular servers. So what if you take your character off a regular server and sell it on a LG server, doesn't affect me or bother me one bit on a regular server. The fact that something goes on against the rules/policies of the game does not mean we should condone it and make it easier t ohappen.</p><p>Also, everyone keep saying "the population is nosediving, everyone's leaving!" and yet I see more and more folks joining the game every day and SOE says population is up. The vocal few that leave are being replaced by the quiet many.</p>

Neiloch
07-26-2010, 03:31 PM
<p>They could just charge more for a LG->Standard transfer. They seem to think charging more acts as a good deterrent evident by their explanation of the 'guild name change' price.I'm honestly wondering if they have a 'Dungeon Finder' feature in the works for Velious. Basically like BG queue but for PvE dungeons. Only other way they could solve population problems in general other than merging them or allowing free transfers off high pop servers to low pop ones.</p><p>EDIT: Also lol at someone on AB talking about population problems. Try hopping on kithicor or Oasis for a couple of months and see how you feel about it then.</p>

Yimway
07-26-2010, 03:33 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm honestly wondering if they have a 'Dungeon Finder' feature in the works for Velious. Basically like BG queue but for PvE dungeons. Only other way they could solve population problems in general other than merging them or allowing free transfers off high pop servers to low pop ones.</p></blockquote><p>Getting off topic, but until the queue system can actually match balanced groups, it can't be extended to dungeons.</p><p>Also, I think most of your dungeoning crowd isn't going to settle for being thrown in with potential 'scubs',  but I do see a benefit to the newer players.</p>

Sapphy
07-26-2010, 03:34 PM
<p>I understand why some ppl might be wary of lg to standard server transfers, but something to consider is that Vox's population is relatively undergeared in comparison to other servers: our raid potential is much below regular servers, and  activity and group formations are rare (as a result lg listed items are not as good as you'd expect)... people coming from lg servers will be at a relatively disadvantaged state compared to the general populace except for the rare exception, and still the majority of high lvl characters are more earned than not.  At this point our server is in really bad shape too and this is one of the only ways a lot of ppl will be able to stay in the game.</p><p>There are ways too that would keep players from preemptively using the lg status to gear up toons and then transfer to other servers.</p>

Neiloch
07-26-2010, 03:40 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm honestly wondering if they have a 'Dungeon Finder' feature in the works for Velious. Basically like BG queue but for PvE dungeons. Only other way they could solve population problems in general other than merging them or allowing free transfers off high pop servers to low pop ones.</p></blockquote><p>Getting off topic, but until the queue system can actually match balanced groups, it can't be extended to dungeons.</p><p>Also, I think most of your dungeoning crowd isn't going to settle for being thrown in with potential 'scubs',  but I do see a benefit to the newer players.</p></blockquote><p>You have no idea how popular it is on WoW lol. They don't even join regular groups low-mid level anymore, its all Dungeon Finder. You queue up, checking a box saying what role you want to play (DPS, Tank, Heals) as well as being a 'Guide' for the run if you know the place and want to be in charge of leading the group. Players are then matched to have 1 healer 1 tank and the rest DPS, any of these could be the guide as well. They don't allow people who can't do the roles to select them, so being a hunter(DPS) I can't say I will be the tank or healer.</p><p>More I think about it the less of a problem I have with Vox people transferring just as long there is some sort of additional requirement, and not treated like a standard->standard transfer.</p>

Barx
07-26-2010, 03:41 PM
<p><cite>Sapphyra wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I understand why some ppl might be wary of lg to standard server transfers, but something to consider is that Vox's population is relatively undergeared in comparison to other servers: our raid potential is much below regular servers, and  activity and group formations are rare... people coming from lg servers will be at a relatively disadvantaged state compared to the general populace except for the rare exception, and still the majority of high lvl characters are more earned than not.</p></blockquote><p>I agree with you 100% that something needs to be done to either let people off vox to somewhere else (ie a merger) or try and bring life back to Vox. The former is the simpler option, where they could merge you into Bazaar and then make it pseduo-pvp in the original EQ1 style (where you would decide to switch to PVP and once decided were locked in). Since Qey/FP have been removed as starter cities, they could even do the warfields in ant/CL, making it so that either only PVP-flagged characters could participate or make the whole zone PVP-active.</p><p>It's not the same as a full PVP server, but it'd think its better than a half-dead PVP server.</p><p>Or they just ignore me and merge you with naggy and open up LG-->PVE transfers. Wouldn't be the first time they disappointed me in something, and I seem to be very much the minority there with my opinions on RMT.</p>

Gungo
07-26-2010, 03:45 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We've been discussing our server transfer policies over the past couple of weeks but don't have anything to announce yet.  We've commented on this subject in the past and are aware of the desires for people to have more open transfer policies between PvP/PvE and LG/Standard servers.  As soon as we have something to tell you, it will be announced.  But for now, understand that your voices are heard.</p></blockquote><p>My 2cp: PVP<-->PVE is ok, bring PVP items that are raid-quality to PVE is not (itemless transfers maybe? Something that when you land you have a level-appropriate small amount of coin and a level-appropriate MC-quality armor & jewelry or tokens to buy said?).</p><p>LG --> standard is not ok. I know it's tough to figure out what to do with Vox, but I know that there's plenty of folks like myself that believe that transferring from an exchange server to a regular server is unacceptable, then you might as well make them all exchange.</p></blockquote><p>The fact you can already farm on a regular server and send that toon to a live gamer server. The fact the the third party site such as player auctions or the dozens of plat sites has a thriving buisiness really doesnt support your theory of regular server not being exchange to a degree. Honestly the game is losing a ton of players through normal attrition and hard nose blind stances such as the one you portray does nothing to alleivate the problems. Allowing live gamer servers to trasnfer from a live gamer server to a pve server or PVP server and vice versa adds the same third wall that currently exists already on a regular server. It should be allowed with all the same rules that currently exsist except that the future should allow pvp<>pve trasnfers and LG<>pvp/pve. There is no gear gap between the servers in fact the opposite is true, people sell thier toons on livegamer because they farm gear easier on regular servers.</p></blockquote><p>Standard --> LG has no impact on regular servers. So what if you take your character off a regular server and sell it on a LG server, doesn't affect me or bother me one bit on a regular server. The fact that something goes on against the rules/policies of the game does not mean we should condone it and make it easier t ohappen.</p><p>Also, everyone keep saying "the population is nosediving, everyone's leaving!" and yet I see more and more folks joining the game every day and SOE says population is up. The vocal few that leave are being replaced by the quiet many.</p></blockquote><p>I completely beg to differ standard > lg has a MUCH worse impact then on regular servers. I have been in guilds where people routinely sell plat they obtain and gear out alts to sell on lg ALL the time. I have been in guilds were people litterally raid to gear out toons to sell on lg to make cash. I see this happening all the time and it effects most people on regular servers. I know countless people who play a toon that is not thiers (people who left the game, bought etc). This alone doesnt even touch the amount of players accounts sold and plat sold on servers. I could link you dozens of sites if it were allowed on these boards. Just because you ignore what is happening doesnt mean it doesnt exist. And frankly that is what you are doing ignoring the facts. Bottom line is there is a much higher gear gap on regular servers then on the live gamer servers. Furthermore there is already a waitiing period for new accounts on the ability to transfer. All they need to do is extend this waiting period to live gamer server (which should honeslty be limited to bazaar and vox merged into nagafen or bazaar) put in a 3-6month limit of an account from transfering from a live gamer server to a regular or pvp server and viola you just solved the issue of selling toons from a regular server to a station server back to a live server.</p><p>Sure the population is growing and the game is doing better then ever and YET SOE is laying off developers. That makes a ton of sense doesnt it.</p>

Barx
07-26-2010, 03:51 PM
<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I completely beg to differ standard > lg has a MUCH worse impact then on regular servers. I have been in guilds where people routinely sell plat they obtain and gear out alts to sell on lg ALL the time. I have been in guilds were people litterally raid to gear out toons to sell on lg to make cash. I see this happening all the time and it effects most people on regular servers. I know countless people who play a toon that is not thiers (people who left the game, bought etc). This alone doesnt even touch the amount of players accounts sold and plat sold on servers. I could link you dozens of sites if it were allowed on these boards. Just because you ignore what is happening doesnt mean it doesnt exist. And frankly that is what you are doing ignoring the facts.</p><p>Sure the population is growing and the game is doing better then ever and YET SOE is laying off developers. That makes a ton of sense doesnt it.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not ignoring the facts, I just disagree that allowing LG-->regular is going to change things in a positive way. Are all the people that are moving characters to LG to sell going to stop selling them? No, since people would be able to transfer back demand would go up and people would be doing it more than ever. The only thing it might do is shift it from the plat sites to LG a bit more -- I guess you're saying better the devil you know?</p><p>I've seen the plat sites, I know they're there. There's nothing I can do about them. All I can do is make my opinion clear and try to prevent SOE from making it even easier.</p><p>The developer thing is barely worth responding to. They let a few people go -- yes I know some of the people that went should not have gone and others should have gone in their place, but welcome to office politics.</p>

Jrral
07-26-2010, 04:01 PM
<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We've been discussing our server transfer policies over the past couple of weeks but don't have anything to announce yet.  We've commented on this subject in the past and are aware of the desires for people to have more open transfer policies between PvP/PvE and LG/Standard servers.  As soon as we have something to tell you, it will be announced.  But for now, understand that your voices are heard.</p></blockquote><p>Myself, I'd favor expanded transfers but under these restrictions:</p><ul><li>For PvP->PvE, all PvP gear that's not available on the PvE servers is removed during the transfer. It'd be appropriate to substitute appropriate-quality battlegrounds gear for it.</li><li>For LG->standard:<ul><li>Only characters that were created by the current account-holder can be transferred to standard servers. If the current account-holder didn't create and level the character up the same way everyone on the standard servers has to, that character shouldn't be brought into the standard server world.</li><li>All items that were purchased by RMT should be removed during the transfer. Same logic: if it was earned in-game in the same ways people on the standard servers can earn it it's fine to transfer it, but when it was gotten in a way people on the standard servers can't it stays in the LG server world.</li><li>For in-game coin, remove any amount purchased via RMT within the last 60 days but otherwise let it transfer. It's possible to earn gold in PvE, RMT speeds it up but doesn't permit anything a sufficiently-motivated player in PvE can't do. The only thing that needs blocked is someone loading up on tons of coin just before transferring over to PvE, and that purely to avoid disrupting the economy on the PvE servers too much.</li><li>Items bought with in-game coin that was bought via RMT... philosophically I'd like to block them but from a practical standpoint I think it'd be a major pain to implement and I don't think it's really critical enough to block the whole idea over. In PvE people already auction off loot rights to items, after all.</li></ul></li></ul>

Madmonte
07-26-2010, 04:07 PM
<p>Thank you rothgar for responding to my PM, appreciate the actual acknowledgement...just wish there was a timeframe of sorts attached lol...nice to see the thread pop to life as well.</p>

Ristan
07-26-2010, 04:09 PM
<p>IMO this is doable.</p><p>PVP > PVE.  Any pure pvp items not available on PVE have to be removed (like your broker/mail before doing a regular transfer).  This could mean the pvp player sells the pvp only items.  Another way is to have the pvp player do a without gear transfer so they arrive on their new server naked but they can keep coin and keep spells/masters.</p><p>LG > Standard. See the second half of above.  Strip the player of all gear. Except the LG toon looses coin as well so they come to their new server with 0 masters, 0 coin, 0 gear.  If you really want of your server bad enough you will do it.  I really don't care if someone bought a character or not...it is very easy to get max level, and with everything else stripped thats basically all you got...is a level 90 toon.</p>

Aganon
07-26-2010, 04:14 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We've been discussing our server transfer policies over the past couple of weeks but don't have anything to announce yet.  We've commented on this subject in the past and are aware of the desires for people to have more open transfer policies between PvP/PvE and LG/Standard servers.  As soon as we have something to tell you, it will be announced.  But for now, understand that your voices are heard.</p></blockquote><p>Myself, I'd favor expanded transfers but under these restrictions:</p><ul><li>For LG->standard:<ul><li>Only characters that were created by the current account-holder can be transferred to standard servers. If the current account-holder didn't create and level the character up the same way everyone on the standard servers has to, that character shouldn't be brought into the standard server world</li></ul></li></ul></blockquote><p>So the power leveling services simply say, "We'll sell a level 90 on the server of your choice!" and then do the transfer themselves before selling the character/account.  </p><p>It's a horrible idea to allow LG server created characters to infect standard servers' player base but I guess business always trumps common sense.</p><p>.</p>

Madmonte
07-26-2010, 04:15 PM
<p>I would actually agree with that, and I'm perfectly fine with it, strip the toons completely, if you want off the server bad enough you will do it.  Even just going PVP to PVE I'm fine with it.  If you don't do something like that, then basically you are allowing ALL servers to go live gamer.  As it stands, people from servers can transfer to Bazaar with their gear intact and then just sell the toon.  I actually believe THAT shouldn't even be allowed.</p><p>However, to let a good server full of dedicated players rot is a worse crime than trying to find a way to give them an option to get off.  I for one have been on Vox 6 years and have never even USED live gamer.  That's more normal than not.</p><p>Can it be abused?  Certainly, but at least gear stripping/master stripping would take most of the abuse away.  And the closer these servers come to actual death, the more probable it is that people would actually take that option, rather than lose a toon at 90, with 250 aa, crafter level 90, maxed tinkering, maxed muting...in fact mutliple toons ALL like that that they built themselves.</p><p>I for one have 7 level 90 crafters, and rerolling on a different server would at least be MUCH easier, and my 6 years of building toons wouldn't be a COMPLETE waste, gear or not.</p>

Gungo
07-26-2010, 04:22 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I completely beg to differ standard > lg has a MUCH worse impact then on regular servers. I have been in guilds where people routinely sell plat they obtain and gear out alts to sell on lg ALL the time. I have been in guilds were people litterally raid to gear out toons to sell on lg to make cash. I see this happening all the time and it effects most people on regular servers. I know countless people who play a toon that is not thiers (people who left the game, bought etc). This alone doesnt even touch the amount of players accounts sold and plat sold on servers. I could link you dozens of sites if it were allowed on these boards. Just because you ignore what is happening doesnt mean it doesnt exist. And frankly that is what you are doing ignoring the facts.</p><p>Sure the population is growing and the game is doing better then ever and YET SOE is laying off developers. That makes a ton of sense doesnt it.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not ignoring the facts, I just disagree that allowing LG-->regular is going to change things in a positive way. Are all the people that are moving characters to LG to sell going to stop selling them? No, since people would be able to transfer back demand would go up and people would be doing it more than ever. The only thing it might do is shift it from the plat sites to LG a bit more -- I guess you're saying better the devil you know?</p><p>I've seen the plat sites, I know they're there. There's nothing I can do about them. All I can do is make my opinion clear and try to prevent SOE from making it even easier.</p><p>The developer thing is barely worth responding to. They let a few people go -- yes I know some of the people that went should not have gone and others should have gone in their place, but welcome to office politics.</p></blockquote><p>Good you already admit this activity happens and will continue to happen regardless of your stance. Now its not only the devil you do know. Its the fact SOE can control the situation and provide protection to the sellers whereas the third party site will not. Finally it also allows soe to gain monetary gains from the sales instead of third party scam sites which in turn can be used to prevent future layoffs and improve the game we both play.</p><p>Now what i would like to see happen is live gamer<regular server trasnfers with a 6 month trasnfer limitation the same as they use for NEW accounts to prevent exploits and plat scam sites from abusing it with that limitation then the activity will not increase, since at that point it becomes harder to move characters legitimately through a live gamer server then it is to do it illegally through a third party site like player auction. Furthermore since it now protects the buyer it may even limit players from using third party sites and just waiting the 6 month transfer limitation period.</p>

Barx
07-26-2010, 04:23 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>IMO this is doable.</p><p>PVP > PVE.  Any pure pvp items not available on PVE have to be removed (like your broker/mail before doing a regular transfer).  This could mean the pvp player sells the pvp only items.  Another way is to have the pvp player do a without gear transfer so they arrive on their new server naked but they can keep coin and keep spells/masters.</p><p>LG > Standard. See the second half of above.  Strip the player of all gear. Except the LG toon looses coin as well so they come to their new server with 0 masters, 0 coin, 0 gear.  If you really want of your server bad enough you will do it.  I really don't care if someone bought a character or not...it is very easy to get max level, and with everything else stripped thats basically all you got...is a level 90 toon.</p></blockquote><p>That sounds pretty reasonable to me (although I would say convert any masters to expert). As you mention, it's darn easy to get 90 these days (*poke* RAF bonus), and AA isn't that easy to get either. Heck I'd even be willing to give folks some no-trade no-value treasured-quality generic-looking mid-tier gear (IE L90 gets L85 gear, L20 gets L15 gear, L14 and under gets L5 gear) or, barring that, allow a small level-appropriate amount of coin (say up to 45p at L90).</p>

Sapphy
07-26-2010, 04:27 PM
<p>I'd really be against stripping the characters of gear on transfer... characters here are already disadvantaged gear wise and the server state is already pretty bleak... if they transferred without gear they'd have a hard time finding guilds, or raiding in their current guilds if they transferred over with them to get the same lvl of gear again.  Players shouldn't be punished more to get gameplay benefits they should already be getting just to stay in the game.</p><p>LG -> Standard servers will not have the impact most of you are anticipating, and most of you are blowing it out of proportion i think.  Its not going to hurt standard servers like you anticipate, most players here are mostly earned and relatively undergeared.  Players here have to work very hard to get even mediocre gear compared to the amount of effort to get the same amount of gear on regular servers.  The result of lg to standard servers will only really be a small boost to active populations spread over servers.</p><p>And like madmonte said <span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; color: #444444;">However, to let a good server full of dedicated players rot is a worse crime than trying to find a way to give them an option to get off.  I for one have been on Vox 6 years and have never even USED live gamer.  That's more normal than not.</span></p><div>I myself have never used the lg server aspect tbh as well.. its not as rare as you think (and those that do use lg don't use it as much as ppl think either), and letting the server go i think would be worse than disallowing transfers.</div>

Madmonte
07-26-2010, 04:30 PM
<p>On further thought, though, gear obtained through quests should be allowed to be kept, OR the quests should be deleted and allowed to be restarted.  Can't have it bugging out that a guy can't get his enervated weapon back, or redo getting his T2 raid shoulders.</p>

Gungo
07-26-2010, 04:32 PM
<p>I think all these arbitrary limitations people are coming up with is a waste of developer time. A 6 month limit on transfer off of exchange servers is all that is needed.</p>

Madmonte
07-26-2010, 04:39 PM
<p>Yeah but Sapphyra you have to be able to make concessions in an event like this...stripping gear sucks, yes I know, but think of the can of worms you'd be opening up by NOT doing that.  Now every server is, in sense, a live gamer server because you can move it to LG, sell it, and bring it back to any server you want, with no penalties.  Even though I haven't used live gamer MYSELF, I'm definitely aware of why they don't allow the transfers. </p><p>Gear stripping at least nullifies this to the extent of money making people joining raid guilds just to gear up toons, move them to LG, and then sell them to anyone at all worldwide.</p><p>I'm not naive, though, and DO realize that people sell all the time...but this would be an unbannable way to do something that I don't think is right...therefore to an extent, gear stripping DOES make sense.</p>

Barx
07-26-2010, 04:41 PM
<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think all these arbitrary limitations people are coming up with is a waste of developer time. A 6 month limit on transfer off of exchange servers is all that is needed.</p></blockquote><p>Six months since what though? The account was created, the last time a transaction was made? If you're talking the latter, that would be a reasonable compromise. (By compromise I mean it's not quite what I'd want, but I also realize that what I want is significantly more restrictive than what many others would want</p>

Yimway
07-26-2010, 04:42 PM
<p><cite>Madmonte wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would actually agree with that, and I'm perfectly fine with it, strip the toons completely, if you want off the server bad enough you will do it.  Even just going PVP to PVE I'm fine with it.  If you don't do something like that, then basically you are allowing ALL servers to go live gamer.  As it stands, people from servers can transfer to Bazaar with their gear intact and then just sell the toon.  I actually believe THAT shouldn't even be allowed.</p></blockquote><p>I think your of a false impression that there is tons of good gear being sold on LG servers.</p><p>The only decent gear sold, is gear on characters that transfered there from another PVE server.  The provision that the character transfering off was actually created on the same account on an LG server solves the issue neatly.</p><p>I think anyone who's actually played on an LG server would agree with that statement.</p><p>In the end, I really don't care if someone bought plat and bought loot, I care more if they can play the class competently.  As we all know people buy plat to buy loot on *every* server *every* day. </p><p>The fact that the healer in my next pug bought plat to buy his gear doesn't negatively impact *my* gameplay.  It only negatively impacts me when he bought the level 90 healer 3 days ago and has no idea what buttons to press when.</p>

Madmonte
07-26-2010, 04:42 PM
<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think all these arbitrary limitations people are coming up with is a waste of developer time. A 6 month limit on transfer off of exchange servers is all that is needed.</p></blockquote><p>You are actually probably right, but even a 6 month window is 6 months of people abusing the system as I wrote in my above post.</p>

Sapphy
07-26-2010, 04:43 PM
<p>all you need is a time limit, window or some other similar restriction to prevent ppl from preemptively using the lg status to transfer over.  And exchanges happen frequently on regular servers as well even without the lg status.  </p><p>ppl having to lose the gear they spent months to get is extremely not fair to the player base here.  No players from here are going to move into other servers with high lvl raid gear, simply bc this server lacks the capacity, they will still have to completely earn any high lvl raid gear, letting them have the lower lvl raid gear they had to earn on the server is only giving them a chance to adequately compete and be able to join raiding guilds to progress their characters.  Not to mention having to lose quest, appearance and event items that would be difficult and time consuming to replace.  Stripping players of gear is essentially giving players the option to transfer but at the cost of having to spend as much time as rerolling a character really to get the character to where it was.</p>

Barx
07-26-2010, 04:44 PM
<p><cite>Madmonte wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think all these arbitrary limitations people are coming up with is a waste of developer time. A 6 month limit on transfer off of exchange servers is all that is needed.</p></blockquote><p>You are actually probably right, but even a 6 month window is 6 months of people abusing the system as I wrote in my above post.</p></blockquote><p>I think Gungo is talking about a waiting period before you'd be allowed to transfer, not a 6-month window in which people could do transfers before they close it down.</p>

Madmonte
07-26-2010, 04:44 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think your of a false impression that there is tons of good gear being sold on LG servers.</p><p>The only decent gear sold, is gear on characters that transfered there from another PVE server.  The provision that the character transfering off was actually created on the same account on an LG server solves the issue neatly.</p><p>I think anyone who's actually played on an LG server would agree with that statement.</p><p>In the end, I really don't care if someone bought plat and bought loot, I care more if they can play the class competently.  As we all know people buy plat to buy loot on *every* server *every* day. </p><p>The fact that the healer in my next pug bought plat to buy his gear doesn't negatively impact *my* gameplay.  It only negatively impacts me when he bought the level 90 healer 3 days ago and has no idea what buttons to press when.</p></blockquote><p>No you're under the false impression that I was talking about loot.  I was talking about characters with loot attached to them.  THAT is the bigger problem.</p>

Gungo
07-26-2010, 04:48 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Madmonte wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think all these arbitrary limitations people are coming up with is a waste of developer time. A 6 month limit on transfer off of exchange servers is all that is needed.</p></blockquote><p>You are actually probably right, but even a 6 month window is 6 months of people abusing the system as I wrote in my above post.</p></blockquote><p>I think Gungo is talking about a waiting period before you'd be allowed to transfer, not a 6-month window in which people could do transfers before they close it down.</p></blockquote><p>Bingo</p><p>This is the easiest thing for the developer to implement without them wasting time on writing soem obscure scripts and getting back to making stuff for the game and allowing EVERYONE who plays eq2 to enjoy themselves.</p>

Ristan
07-26-2010, 04:52 PM
<p><cite>Madmonte wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>On further thought, though, gear obtained through quests should be allowed to be kept, OR the quests should be deleted and allowed to be restarted.  Can't have it bugging out that a guy can't get his enervated weapon back, or redo getting his T2 raid shoulders.</p></blockquote><p>I could see questiable items staying, I agree those should stay.  Can't redo them.</p><p>But anything that drops. Forget about it.  Yes I agree sucky players do suck, and people who buy their toons suck but this is what I'm thinking about:</p><p>Player 1 is told they have to roll a new toon for their raid (example).  Player 1 PLs new toon, now it's 90 with crapy gear. Player 1 transfers x toon to bazaar or vox off their native PVE server.  Buys gear.  Transfers x toon back to their server, rejoins their guild, now has a twinked out LG toon on a PVE server.  Thats what I have a problem with.</p><p>Yes people buy plat to buy gear all the time, however the gear isn't always available.</p><p>Wouldn't matter the name on the account cause it is the same person transfering the toon on and off the server.</p><p>If you strip characters of all but quest gear, yes they would be at a disadvantage, but there is plenty of master crafted gear out there.  If you retained quest gear, you could still have a set of gear just won't be as uber as your other.  The idea, I would think, would not be to encourage a mas exodus off a server, but those who are desprite, will bite the bullet.  My 2cp.</p><p>A 6 month window would also deter my example, unless player 1 just rolls or buys a toon on the LG server then transfers it with gear. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p>

Madmonte
07-26-2010, 04:54 PM
<p>Actually that 6 month window of having to be ON vox before transferring makes a LOT of sense when you put it that way.  As for buying gear...most gear that you can buy/sell on LG is irrelevant to raiding.  It's a myth that you can buy raid gear on LG.</p>

Barx
07-26-2010, 04:57 PM
<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Madmonte wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think all these arbitrary limitations people are coming up with is a waste of developer time. A 6 month limit on transfer off of exchange servers is all that is needed.</p></blockquote><p>You are actually probably right, but even a 6 month window is 6 months of people abusing the system as I wrote in my above post.</p></blockquote><p>I think Gungo is talking about a waiting period before you'd be allowed to transfer, not a 6-month window in which people could do transfers before they close it down.</p></blockquote><p>Bingo</p><p><strong>This is the easiest thing for the developer to implement</strong> without them wasting time on writing soem obscure scripts and getting back to making stuff for the game and allowing EVERYONE who plays eq2 to enjoy themselves.</p></blockquote><p>Yep, and I think what I bolded is ultimately what it's going to come down to -- ease of implementation. It's a good compromise, as long as the limit is from last transaction; a limit just on account age would prevent people from creating new accounts but wouldn't do anything for existing accounts. Even something like 3 months since last transaction would be enough to discourage people from gaming the system -- 3 months is a pretty long time to wait.</p>

Gungo
07-26-2010, 04:57 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Madmonte wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>On further thought, though, gear obtained through quests should be allowed to be kept, OR the quests should be deleted and allowed to be restarted.  Can't have it bugging out that a guy can't get his enervated weapon back, or redo getting his T2 raid shoulders.</p></blockquote><p>I could see questiable items staying, I agree those should stay.  Can't redo them.</p><p>But anything that drops. Forget about it.  Yes I agree sucky players do suck, and people who buy their toons suck but this is what I'm thinking about:</p><p>Player 1 is told they have to roll a new toon for their raid (example).  Player 1 PLs new toon, now it's 90 with crapy gear. Player 1 transfers x toon to bazaar or vox off their native PVE server.  Buys gear.  Transfers x toon back to their server, rejoins their guild, now has a twinked out LG toon on a PVE server.  Thats what I have a problem with.</p><p>Yes people buy plat to buy gear all the time, however the gear isn't always available.</p><p>Wouldn't matter the name on the account cause it is the same person transfering the toon on and off the server.</p><p>If you strip characters of all but quest gear, yes they would be at a disadvantage, but there is plenty of master crafted gear out there.  If you retained quest gear, you could still have a set of gear just won't be as uber as your other.  The idea, I would think, would not be to encourage a mas exodus off a server, but those who are desprite, will bite the bullet.  My 2cp.</p></blockquote><p>Gear is not tradeable in eq2. There is no reason to trasnfer to LG for gear.</p><p>The only thing that is wrong in this system is someone buying the class they want off a live game server already made with the gear they want and a 6 month limit on a toon on the bazaar would stop that. This would mean you would have to own that toon and not purchase from live gamer for 6 month before you could tranfser it over.</p><p>This effect has 2 fold benefits. It increases the population on bazaar temporarilly(vox needs to be closed down) and it prevents abuse of the live gamer system.  </p>

Gungo
07-26-2010, 05:06 PM
<p><cite>Madmonte wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually that 6 month window of having to be ON vox before transferring makes a LOT of sense when you put it that way.  As for buying gear...most gear that you can buy/sell on LG is irrelevant to raiding.  It's a myth that you can buy raid gear on LG.</p></blockquote><p>Honestly vox needs to be closed down. 700 level 90 toons is beyond rediculous. I was mostly talking about bazaar. Vox needs to be merged with bazaar. I think for this ONE time players on Vox who have not recently been purchased say 6 months are allowed a trasnfer for FREE to nagafen if they want to continue playing PVP instead of being on a live gamer server. Bazaar should have the 6 month limit on trasnfers.  This would mean you would have to own that toon and not purchase from live gamer for 6 month before you could tranfser it over. So theoretically the worst case scenario is someone sells a toon on bazaar. Someone else buys the toon on bazaar. Pays to actively keep this account open for 6 months. After 6 months of no live gamer activity on that account they are allowed to use the $25 transfer token to transfer that toon to the server of thier choice.</p><p>This allows the bazaar to keep a sustainable population and prevents abuse of the live gamer system. The code for this is also already in place because NEW accounts already have a waiting period on server transfers.</p><p>Asking for some obscure coding with removing all gear except quest gear, coin, and spells with other obscure limits is askign for a bug filled exploitable mess. I dont even think PVP gear should be removed. I think the very few PVP items that are unobtainable in regular servers should just be made for purchase through the battlegrounds merchants. That is more a win-win situation for everyone.</p>

Barx
07-26-2010, 05:11 PM
<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Vox needs to be merged with bazaar. I think for this ONE time players on Vox who have not recently been purchased say 6 months are allowed a trasnfer for FREE to nagafen if they want to continue playing PVP instead of being on a live gamer server.</p></blockquote><p>Given the condition it's in, they could probably be more forgiving on Vox. Give people a 1 month warning, then close LG for a month on Vox. During that month, allow anyone that wants to transfer to Bazaar and become PVE to do so free of charge, then after that month merge whoever is left on Vox into Naggy. That way anyone that wants to say LG can do so on Bazaar, while everyone else that wants to stay PVP can get rolled into Nagafen.</p>

kukubird
07-26-2010, 06:09 PM
<p>Or just do what is best for everyone. Open all servers to LG and make money for SOE instead of xyz foreign shady plat selling sight that turn around and use your credit card later to defraud your game or other games.  That would create more content for everyone and they can stop laying off people.  ( Less cookie cutter expansions with 10 levels of the exact same stuff )</p><p>Again, if you think RMT doesnt happen a lot on quote regular servers... you will change your mind after playing mmos for a few years.  That being said I wouldn't be opposed to stricter enforcement and force players who want to particpate in rmt onto bazaar and vox, but the window for doing that has past.</p><p>You have to look at reality, SOE is tryign to cut costs and keep players ( nothing wroong with that ).  At some point in cutting costs your customers see the shoddy product and leave.  Allowing LG on all servers solves 2 problems, is another legit money stream for the company and allows fraud to be handled and paid for by someone else.  People have realized, now that mmos are more established, that you can't stop RMT and you might as well get what you can from it while minimizing the adverse affects on the game.</p><p>F2P is so huge now cause it doesnt just take the step towards RMT it embraces it with both arms.  People pay for virtual items, fact.   You dont stop RMT, fact.  Would rather the game I enjoy get a % of the money and continues to develop a quality product then xyz fraud company getting the money.  I dont want to see more developers getting laid off cause that is going to affect the quality in the years to come.</p>

Gungo
07-26-2010, 06:34 PM
<p><cite>kukubird wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Or just do what is best for everyone. Open all servers to LG and make money for SOE instead of xyz foreign shady plat selling sight that turn around and use your credit card later to defraud your game or other games.  That would create more content for everyone and they can stop laying off people.  ( Less cookie cutter expansions with 10 levels of the exact same stuff )</p><p>Again, if you think RMT doesnt happen a lot on quote regular servers... you will change your mind after playing mmos for a few years.  That being said I wouldn't be opposed to stricter enforcement and force players who want to particpate in rmt onto bazaar and vox, but the window for doing that has past.</p><p>You have to look at reality, SOE is tryign to cut costs and keep players ( nothing wroong with that ).  At some point in cutting costs your customers see the shoddy product and leave.  Allowing LG on all servers solves 2 problems, is another legit money stream for the company and allows fraud to be handled and paid for by someone else.  People have realized, now that mmos are more established, that you can't stop RMT and you might as well get what you can from it while minimizing the adverse affects on the game.</p><p>F2P is so huge now cause it doesnt just take the step towards RMT it embraces it with both arms.  People pay for virtual items, fact.   You dont stop RMT, fact.  Would rather the game I enjoy get a % of the money and continues to develop a quality product then xyz fraud company getting the money.  I dont want to see more developers getting laid off cause that is going to affect the quality in the years to come.</p></blockquote><p>Honestly I have no issue with RMT as long as it doesnt require me to pay to progress more then my monthly sub. The issue with making LG on regular servers is the farmer activity I honestly dont want to deal with on my regular server. I am not even talking about the chinabots I am talking about players who play to farm for financial incentive thus causing zone disruptions like the old plat farmer aoe teams would lock down named or entire zones. By limiting people to station exchange servers they can farm plat to thier hearts content and sell it on that server for more coin instead of risking it all on a shady 3 party site, who will pay them 12cents a plat and has a chance thier toon will get suspended or banned.</p><p>Instead now with a 6 month moratorium you can farm and buy all the crap you want for real life dollars then in 6 months you can come back and join humanity. Its kinda like prison for the mentally handicapped.</p>

Finora
07-26-2010, 07:11 PM
<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>By limiting people to station exchange servers they can farm plat to thier hearts content and sell it on that server for more coin instead of risking it all on a shady 3 party site, who will pay them 12cents a plat and has a chance thier toon will get suspended or banned.</strong></p><p><strong>Instead now with a 6 month moratorium you can farm and buy all the crap you want for real life dollars then in 6 months you can come back and join humanity. Its kinda like prison for the mentally handicapped.</strong></p></blockquote><p>Hehe.</p><p>To Kukubird, there's many people who'd quit over them making all the servers LG. Many people who would continue to play would very likely never use the LG services. There's a lot of newer people who wouldn't play just because of LG (I know of some already who won't simply because of the marketplace and that is just fluffy crap.) I just don't think it would be as much of a financial boon as you seem to think it would be.</p><p>Putting a 6mo time limit for transfers to and from the LG server seems more than reasonable to me. It would allow people who really want off to get off. People who actually really like that system can transfer over there and boost the population of The Bazaar. It would help prevent abuse of the system. It would hopefully result in fewer lvl 90 defilers who think they bought a dps class (I've actually heard several people say they thought defilers were DPS classes). THAT seems like the win win solution to me. People on live servers see very little change from their day to day play.</p><p>Poor Vox is in a different boat.  I agree with the people who said they should be able to transfer to Bazaar for free before a merge into Nagafen.</p><p>As for PVP>PVE transfers, as long as it doens't bug out gear I don't see why it would be a problem. With the battleground gear on live servers now there's plenty of pvp type gear around and it's not like the people who DO participate in PVP on the battlegrounds don't already fight real PVP players as it is. In regular gameplay, if they want to keep using thier PVP gear, that's fine by me. It doesn't affect me in the slightest.</p>

lollipop
07-26-2010, 08:01 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We've been discussing our server transfer policies over the past couple of weeks but don't have anything to announce yet.  We've commented on this subject in the past and are aware of the desires for people to have more open transfer policies between PvP/PvE and LG/Standard servers.  As soon as we have something to tell you, it will be announced.  But for now, understand that your voices are heard.</p></blockquote><p>My 2cp: PVP<-->PVE is ok, bring PVP items that are raid-quality to PVE is not (itemless transfers maybe? Something that when you land you have a level-appropriate small amount of coin and a level-appropriate MC-quality armor & jewelry or tokens to buy said?).</p><p>LG --> standard is not ok. I know it's tough to figure out what to do with Vox, but I know that there's plenty of folks like myself that believe that transferring from an exchange server to a regular server is unacceptable, then you might as well make them all exchange.</p></blockquote><p>ROFL all servers are already exchange servers. They just use playerauctions or some other site to do it. I mean really... rofl. Whats funny is half the time the people screaming the most, that they dont want it where the ones buying from playerauctions. Thats what I saw in eq1 anyways. They just want to appear as they earned it. Most of them came from RP server (FV server). Most of them where hardcore RP so they never wanted anyone to know they bought coin lol.</p><p>Some players on Bazaar have leveled up. I would also put up several people playing skill above 80% of this games player base...given I said some. Some out right suck.</p><p>As for the farming. Some do, most do it in an instance. I dont think i have seen a farmer, farming open world anything in over a year. They farm SF instances, TSO ones and some raid ones. The thing you would prolly notice the most is a decrease in prices for fable lore gear and tradeskill items.</p>

Rigid
07-26-2010, 08:28 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote></blockquote><p>LG --> standard is not ok. I know it's tough to figure out what to do with Vox, but I know that there's plenty of folks like myself that believe that transferring from an exchange server to a regular server is unacceptable, then you might as well make them all exchange.</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="color: #ffffff;">I understand your concerns there I really do but honestly there are more people buying and selling accounts and plat on your current server than there is playing on Vox right now they just are not doing it through legal routes. I started on Vox as a pvp server not exchange I had a crap system at the time and it had the lightest load so figured it would be less lagg. And all servers have been exchange for years now you can transfer from any server to an exchange server to sell your toon. Items other than Plat are rarely for sell on exchange and face it anyone can buy that on any server.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="color: #ffffff;">Vox players should be allowed choice to transfer to PVP if there is a transfer as well as exchange or blue. Really guys most of us on Vox do not even use the exchange unless it leaving the game. So what if someone bought a level 90 and transferred them to your server how would that hurt you? At best they have PVP gear that can be gained through BG on any server and T2 Raid gear. Very little T3 raid gear is on Vox. I just can't see how that would hurt. Only a handful of players have bought toons to play as their primary character so don't punish the majority of players on Vox that did build their toons and develop them on their own because they made a bad choice in servers when they started the game.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="color: #ffffff;"> </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: "><span style="color: #ffffff;">Also thank you Devs for looking into this it has came as a pleasant surprise to me.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #ffffff;"> </span></p>

Novusod
07-26-2010, 08:38 PM
<p>If they are going to do PvE <-> PvP transfers they need to handle Vox very carefully. If players get the opprotunity to leave Vox the server will completely depopulate more than it already is. It should really be one way ticket PvE -> Vox. Vox needs population help not Nagafen.</p>

Rigid
07-26-2010, 08:56 PM
<p>We all know what needs to happen to Vox at this point. Free transfers to somewhere else and the doors closed on it.</p>

sdaigneault
07-26-2010, 09:06 PM
<p>Yeh, there is no resuscitating Vox. </p>

Jrral
07-26-2010, 09:11 PM
<p><cite>Aganon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So the power leveling services simply say, "We'll sell a level 90 on the server of your choice!" and then do the transfer themselves before selling the character/account.  </p></blockquote><p>I figure that'll be self-correcting. When you "buy" a character that way, the PL service's information's still what's in SOE's records as the owner of the account. If you call in or submit a CS ticket (petition), your contact information's not going to match the account's. And if the PL service wants, they can recover the character with just a few minutes on the phone with CS. I'd bet that it won't take more than a few months for people to learn their lesson. Remember what happened with the Battlegrounds exploit?</p>

Sapphy
07-26-2010, 09:12 PM
<p><div><p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they are going to do PvE <-> PvP transfers they need to handle Vox very carefully. If players get the opprotunity to leave Vox the server will completely depopulate more than it already is. It should really be one way ticket PvE -> Vox. Vox needs population help not Nagafen.</p><div></div></blockquote></div></p><p>A large percent of players would leave vox (most i know) if transfers were open and yes further depopulate the server... but that's a good thing isn't it?  Vox may die more but then again all the players who were on it would be saved.</p>

kukubird
07-26-2010, 10:00 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>By limiting people to station exchange servers they can farm plat to thier hearts content and sell it on that server for more coin instead of risking it all on a shady 3 party site, who will pay them 12cents a plat and has a chance thier toon will get suspended or banned.</strong></p><p><strong>Instead now with a 6 month moratorium you can farm and buy all the crap you want for real life dollars then in 6 months you can come back and join humanity. Its kinda like prison for the mentally handicapped.</strong></p></blockquote><p>Hehe.</p><p>To Kukubird, there's many people who'd quit over them making all the servers LG. Many people who would continue to play would very likely never use the LG services. There's a lot of newer people who wouldn't play just because of LG (I know of some already who won't simply because of the marketplace and that is just fluffy crap.) I just don't think it would be as much of a financial boon as you seem to think it would be.</p><p>Putting a 6mo time limit for transfers to and from the LG server seems more than reasonable to me. It would allow people who really want off to get off. People who actually really like that system can transfer over there and boost the population of The Bazaar. It would help prevent abuse of the system. It would hopefully result in fewer lvl 90 defilers who think they bought a dps class (I've actually heard several people say they thought defilers were DPS classes). THAT seems like the win win solution to me. People on live servers see very little change from their day to day play.</p><p>Poor Vox is in a different boat.  I agree with the people who said they should be able to transfer to Bazaar for free before a merge into Nagafen.</p><p>As for PVP>PVE transfers, as long as it doens't bug out gear I don't see why it would be a problem. With the battleground gear on live servers now there's plenty of pvp type gear around and it's not like the people who DO participate in PVP on the battlegrounds don't already fight real PVP players as it is. In regular gameplay, if they want to keep using thier PVP gear, that's fine by me. It doesn't affect me in the slightest.</p></blockquote><p>I understand what you are saying, however, I think you underestimate how much RMT happens on the quote " regular " servers.  I am not going to link it, but you can go see how many hundreds of dollars get exchanged by just one seller on one non LG server from just one auction site.  ( then multiply it ).  The information is out there if you want to go look.  Look at completed aurcions on feedback tabs.</p><p>I have played these games since the first day of ultima online, 1000's of hours over multiple games and like someone above said the people that scream the loudest against RMT are a lot of the times the ones buying.  Anyways, the evidence is there if youw ant to research how much rmt on the non LG servers is going on.</p><p>I do agree with you it wouldn't be a financial boon by any means but it would allow all servers to be able to be mixed with one ruleset for now and in the future.  It would also alleviate fraud claims to SOE cs.  Lastly it would bring in some money, probably enough for a good few devs a year.</p>

Novusod
07-26-2010, 10:23 PM
<p><cite>Sapphyra wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><div>A large percent of players would leave vox (most i know) if transfers were open and yes further depopulate the server... but that's a good thing isn't it?  Vox may die more but then again all the players who were on it would be saved.</div></blockquote><p>How is that a good thing if Vox went from 700 level 90s to less 300 and the server didn't get merged?</p>

Sapphy
07-26-2010, 10:33 PM
<p>if the server went from 700 to, say, 10 players by allowing transfers the server, vox, would be in an even more dire state.  But the 690 players who left would probably be in better shape.  I'm saying there is a net benefit to players gained by allowing transfers even if the server degrades (and it would better represent player choices).</p><p>Edit: Even for the remaining 10 players the worst that should happen is that the server degrades in happiness past the point of their second favorite server and they go there instead I think...</p>

Madmonte
07-27-2010, 01:54 AM
<p>I've been getting numerous tells and hearing random discussion in open chat on the server...bottom line is this, we don't know what's gonna happen here, it's still really only in the initial stages of even discussion, and even if the devs do decide to do something about this issue, it will take a while first to make up their minds as to what that is...and also take a lot of time to implement.</p><p>Keep the feedback coming...when the devs are talking about it, I think they know by now they're getting a lot of feedback about what that should be in this thread, and the feedback is MOST useful to the devs when they are just initially discussing something.</p>

Reekee
07-27-2010, 02:22 AM
<p>Great to see some development on this real problem for Vox, and thanks to everyone who helped to get Sony's attention.</p><p>I'm blown away by the language and attitudes of some of the pve/non-exchange servers though: LG toons "infecting" your servers? I thought we were all in this together to have some fun and play a game, not be judged and hung out to dry by strangers because I naively picked the top server on the list as a brand new MMO gamer several years ago.</p><p>Vox scores more poorly than any of the other servers in raid progression and we have the worst gear. Strip us of the thousands of plat we're apparently buying and we're still no competition for you guys on the other servers. Strip us of masters, gear, and plat and I don't think I have the energy to regear and master out my 2 main level 90 toons I levelled myself from scratch, geared up over years of playing/raiding and mastered out twice.</p><p>I'm with Sapphyra on pretty much everything she's said, she makes a lot of sense. Here's hoping they come up with a solution that everyone can live with.</p>

EndevorX
07-27-2010, 04:45 AM
<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We've been discussing our server transfer policies over the past couple of weeks but don't have anything to announce yet.  We've commented on this subject in the past and are aware of the desires for people to have more open transfer policies between PvP/PvE and LG/Standard servers.  As soon as we have something to tell you, it will be announced.  But for now, understand that your voices are heard.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">I completely agree with abolishing all impediments to server transfers.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Doing such equates to mega green/bank for SOE.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Except I also agree with not doing projects like The Matrix Online, Vanguard, Pirates of the Burning Sea, or a risky title like The Agency, so that SOE can actually make commercials for EverQuest II, which, IMO, is essential to mainstream introduction and popular sales.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Although, of course, such a bigoted perspective of mine on franchise expansion can be mistaken if all of the above were only financed because of their pitch.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">But, TBH, maybe it was wrong on the part of SOE investors to bank on these other titles, rather than a strong advertising campaign which would include a heavy presence with commercials, on broadcasted television.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">If EQ2's engine is ever changed to properly scale with modern hardware, or if "EverQuest Next" can ever expect to be a success, there should at least be a heavy, community-based project to vet/explore quality ideas for cinematic screenplay, within such commercials.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Needing to close/merge servers = shucks...</span></p>

MaCloud1032
07-27-2010, 10:39 AM
I love the eleetist pve piosters in this thread. How in any way does a LG 90 toon affect any of you? How is doing that any diffrent then some one running a toon up via RAF. If I decided to made a bard and simply just put him on AF behind my sk how is that any diffrent? Attan you mentioned in a diff thread how on the xp weekend you ran up a toon on a RAF. Can you tell me you knew/know how that toon works inside and out? As for the thousands of plat. Your all telling me only that only LG servers have accounts with thousands of plat? Also you can't strip all the people who wanna trasfer. You also can't do a blanket gift of "basic" gear. Some classes can use crappy gear better then others. Most 90s have already gone thru the quest that give gear. Not only that it would make it near impossable to kill the mobs to get the gear if they are naked and no spells. Same for PvP gear how does my toon having pvp gear(the lv 80 stuff) effect you? You might see me in a BG? That can happen now. Once transfera open up you can go to vox/naggy and get the gear you want. Transfers should be free (not monitarily(sp)) and open. No stripping or any of that sort. Start with say a week with no cost transfers. Allowing people to leave and go to what ever server they want. After that set the price to say 50 bucks for transfers incolving vox, naggy, and the bazar. We should be embracing free travil between all the servers. Keep the player base happy.

Pervis
07-27-2010, 10:57 AM
<p><cite>kukubird wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>More RMT goes on on the regular servers then the exchange.  Just go look at feedback of all the non sanctioned sellers on other sights and how much they sell per day.</p></blockquote><p>This is a worthless argument.</p><p>You don't make rules based on what is happening, you make them based on what you want to happen. Reguardless of any rules in place, people will break them, exploit them, and stretch them to their limit. The idea is to have a robust set of rules that can be used to enforce the will of those in charge (in this case, SOE).</p><p>Imagine of governments decided to just not have laws against certain 'substances'. It is legal in some areas, under some circumstances, but there is far greater volume of sales in areas where it is not legal. While some are all for it happening (topic for another forum), this is not a particularly good argument for it.</p><p>Personally, I am happy to see PvP -> PvE server transfers, minus items not available on PvE servers (I'd rather see all PvP items made available via BGs though). Obviously, PvE -> PvP should be enabled as well.</p><p>LG -> non-LG is a bit of an issue to me though. I would be happy if it were simply not allowed. Ever. Under any circumstance. If there is a reason to enable it, there are three things I would want to see.</p><p>First, a character that has been bought on LG is not eligible for transfer. Second, in order to be eligable for transfer off an LG server, you can not have made any LG transactions for the last 3 months. Lastly, players from all countries need to be allowed to sell on LG (not that I am interested, its a principle thing...).</p>

Aurel
07-27-2010, 11:02 AM
<p>Now, now, now.  Let's not use namecalling.  I have a good handful of friends that don't have a care in the world for LiveGamer.</p><p>If it were up to me, I would recommend people that have a strong hatred for LiveGamer to play on Bazaar (or Vox, if they're a PvPer that hates the exchange) and see that it doesn't have that much impact on gameplay if you choose to not use it.  (:  Sure, if you have level chats on, you might see someone advertising their character for sale, but I don't have level chats on, so that doesn't impact my game.</p><p>I also don't advocate turning all servers exchange.  That would turn off newcomers to EQ2.  Not all of them, but it would certainly give people of similar minds the same bad taste and the same turn of the head.</p><p>I don't see why the punishment to leave the server is the same as the sacrifice to come here:  all tradeables and money gone, left only with no-trade and heirloom.  But I think leaving should cost.</p><p>There was a brief period of time when we Bazaarians saw the server transfer token on the marketplace and it caused quite a stir.  It had that conditional on it (bye-bye money and tradeables), so many thought it was legit.  One friend in particular tossed all of her money and tradeables and snagged the token as quickly as she could... well, tried to, anyway.  It wasn't actually able to be purchased.</p><p>However, if they do allow transfers off... I will miss calling Bazaar the Hotel Bazaarifornia...  but there are so many people that are clawing at the walls, begging and crying to leave, I suppose I won't mourn the loss of the name too much... *grin*</p><p>[EDIT]  Also, is there a way to have the server list alphabetized within the order of load?  That is to say, the Light loads alphabetized so The Bazaar and Vox are at the bottom, then the Medium loads, then the Heavy loads.  I think that would help a LOT, since Bazaar/Vox are continually picked by default on accident.</p>

rockcoastie
07-27-2010, 11:31 AM
<p><cite>Pervis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kukubird wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>More RMT goes on on the regular servers then the exchange.  Just go look at feedback of all the non sanctioned sellers on other sights and how much they sell per day.</p></blockquote><p>This is a worthless argument.</p><p>You don't make rules based on what is happening, you make them based on what you want to happen. Reguardless of any rules in place, people will break them, exploit them, and stretch them to their limit. The idea is to have a robust set of rules that can be used to enforce the will of those in charge (in this case, SOE).</p><p>Imagine of governments decided to just not have laws against certain 'substances'. It is legal in some areas, under some circumstances, but there is far greater volume of sales in areas where it is not legal. While some are all for it happening (topic for another forum), this is not a particularly good argument for it.</p><p>Personally, I am happy to see PvP -> PvE server transfers, minus items not available on PvE servers (I'd rather see all PvP items made available via BGs though). Obviously, PvE -> PvP should be enabled as well.</p><p>LG -> non-LG is a bit of an issue to me though. I would be happy if it were simply not allowed. Ever. Under any circumstance. If there is a reason to enable it, there are three things I would want to see.</p><p>First, a character that has been bought on LG is not eligible for transfer. Second, in order to be eligable for transfer off an LG server, you can not have made any LG transactions for the last 3 months. Lastly, players from all countries need to be allowed to sell on LG (not that I am interested, its a principle thing...).</p></blockquote><p>You're a fool if you are to naive to believe that "LG type stuff" doesn't happen on EVERY SERVER.  Do you not know how easy its is to PL a character to 90 with at least 150-200+ aa put some legendary crap on it and sell the account?  Hey guess what it happens.  You can make your precious "rules" all day long and the will be just as "worthless" as your naive argument.  People break rules and laws all the time.  Toons get bought and sold constantly on every server.  So wait then by your rules those people should not be allowed on your server either.  You should really think through an arbitrary argument before you spout off things that are not so easily policed or remedied on your own server.  And btw those "sustances" are illegal by Federal standards no matter what: it is only states that allow it.  Nope your Glaucoma card wont keep the DEA from taking your "Medicinal substance".</p>

Sapphy
07-28-2010, 02:22 AM
<p>So... will the ftp model give more weight to allowing transfers and mergers for lg servers (before the conversion)?  Because once it goes active, and maybe I'm interpreting this wrong, but it seems like lg will lose a lot of uniqueness over regular servers (even ignoring non lg rmt) and would otherwise be restricted.</p>

Ammem
07-28-2010, 11:31 AM
<p>Just merge Vox with Bazaar, but before the merge give players an option to transfer to Nagafen before they become part of the new transfer. Such transfer is possible and this way characters still remain under Live Gamer contract, with an option of ending it.</p>

Shankapotomus
07-28-2010, 11:57 AM
<p>I agree with myself.</p><p>They should merge Vox with Nagafen and put everyone as a Freep. That way it can fix both servers PvP problems and I wont cry at night....</p>

Snork
07-28-2010, 01:15 PM
i don't see what the big bias against LG is about. power leveling and plat harvesting exists on non-LG servers, and has been around since well before EQ2. it doesn't make it any more "noble" if a guild PLs a char than it does if some solo goober buys a L90 on LG. as far as vox, the ruleset's got nothing to do with it... for new players (i.e. ones not already tied to another server) it makes absolutely no difference; i've never met anyone who says "oh, gee, yeah this is a fun game and all but i'm gonna quit cause someone can actually buy plat instead of beg for it." while it would never actually happen, think about the following scenario: if every new character was _forced_ to start on Vox, and could only move to another server after they hit say, L30, then the ONLY ones that would move are ones who already had a _specific_ server in mind to begin with. the new players or ones who didn't already have a preference would stick around almost 100% of the time. vox's issue is that of low population to begin with, not one of retention. people want to go where there are others to play with, and since vox and bazaar have the least, they pick more populated ones.

Madmonte
07-28-2010, 05:45 PM
<p>You are 100% right on that.  If Vox and Bazaar come together, it would only be a matter of time for that merged server too.  Especially since you'd have to remove PVP or PVE from one of those servers to make that change happen.  That would cause a lot of people to just reroll...</p><p>I think people were more on the right track saying character transfers should be allowed first and foremost, and I also agree with the "window" scenario where if you move to Vox you are locked in there for a few months before the toon is allowed to move again (to prevent all servers from becoming basically exchange)</p>

skidmark
07-28-2010, 06:44 PM
<p>I think it is ridiculous to put the restriction of it has to be the same account that created the toon. Couple of reasons:</p><ol><li>I have two Refer-a-friend accounts that I start toons on and PL to 90 in very short amount of time. I know I am not the only one (LG or otherwise). When I get them to 90, I transfer to my main account (or sell them). In the blanket rule that some of you are laying out, a lot of my toons would be left behind</li><li>More importantly very few people actually grind to 90 these days. If you have done it on one or two characters, you have pretty much learned the mechanics of the game. Through observation of other players playing classes you also learn a lot. What is the fear/reluctance here? That when I get into your raid my DPS will stink? When I am raid MT we will wipe? Every raid force I have joined the MT has to be earned/trusted. They don't just give it to any slappy in a pick-up group that joined the raid.</li></ol>

Sapphy
07-28-2010, 06:51 PM
<p><cite>Madmonte wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You are 100% right on that.  If Vox and Bazaar come together, it would only be a matter of time for that merged server too.  Especially since you'd have to remove PVP or PVE from one of those servers to make that change happen.  That would cause a lot of people to just reroll...</p><p>I think people were more on the right track saying character transfers should be allowed first and foremost, and I also agree with the "window" scenario where if you move to Vox you are locked in there for a few months before the toon is allowed to move again (to prevent all servers from becoming basically exchange)</p></blockquote><p>my thoughts too! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  (merging bazaar with vox would be nice but I could see that being only a temporary fix too... given the relatively low populations of both, the change of one of the server statuses, the move to ftp taking away more incentive to go to exchange, etc.. it might end up just delaying the decision on transfers.)</p>

Bosconi
07-31-2010, 04:00 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We've been discussing our server transfer policies over the past couple of weeks but don't have anything to announce yet.  We've commented on this subject in the past and are aware of the desires for people to have more open transfer policies between PvP/PvE and LG/Standard servers.  As soon as we have something to tell you, it will be announced.  But for now, understand that your voices are heard.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">I completely agree with abolishing all impediments to server transfers.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Doing such equates to mega green/bank for SOE.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Except I also agree with not doing projects like The Matrix Online, Vanguard, Pirates of the Burning Sea, or a risky title like The Agency, so that SOE can actually make commercials for EverQuest II, which, IMO, is essential to mainstream introduction and popular sales.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Although, of course, such a bigoted perspective of mine on franchise expansion can be mistaken if all of the above were only financed because of their pitch.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">But, TBH, maybe it was wrong on the part of SOE investors to bank on these other titles, rather than a strong advertising campaign which would include a heavy presence with commercials, on broadcasted television.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">If EQ2's engine is ever changed to properly scale with modern hardware, or if "EverQuest Next" can ever expect to be a success, there should at least be a heavy, community-based project to vet/explore quality ideas for cinematic screenplay, within such commercials.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Needing to close/merge servers = shucks...</span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">+1 self. If there are some who somehow think to doubt the cash flow of freedom, then they should do a gamewide poll on the matter/survey.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Maybe with an included, revised Great Staff of the Sun Serpent...or station cash, or boosters, or somethins...</span></p>

Paleth
07-31-2010, 05:47 PM
<p>To be honest I dont feel bad for any of you.  "BUYING" in-game items has always been and always will be a horrific idea in gaming.  You end up with NO sense of worth or development on your character.  I'm glad your server is struggling.  I'm glad its going to die off.  And I hope fewer and fewer gaming companies continue this ill practice of trying to gain profits off such a horrendous idea.</p><p>In being fair, I have no problem with Sony allowing you to transfer off your server to ANY server.  But that will be minus all of your spells/gear/gold ect.</p><p>But you can keep your fluff.</p>

EndevorX
07-31-2010, 05:51 PM
<p><cite>Paleth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To be honest I dont feel bad for any of you.  "BUYING" in-game items has always been and always will be a horrific idea in gaming.  You end up with NO sense of worth or development on your character.  I'm glad your server is struggling.  I'm glad its going to die off.  And I hope fewer and fewer gaming companies continue this ill practice of trying to gain profits off such a horrendous idea.</p><p>In being fair, I have no problem with Sony allowing you to transfer off your server to ANY server.  But that will be minus all of your spells/gear/gold ect.</p><p>But you can keep your fluff.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">If EQ2 was a title with a solid engine, more dynamic/interactive polish, I'm sure their Livegamer venture could've succeeded more than it has.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">If WoW or Warhammer did something like it, it'd likely be pretty darn popular and lucrative.</span></p>

sect0r
08-03-2010, 08:35 AM
<p>BUMP!  Don't Forget us!</p>

Vegeeta
08-03-2010, 07:47 PM
<p>If Vox dies it is because there are no guilds recruiting and helping new players build from 10-90. Everyone thinks they're gonna have a "Raiding Guild" yet who is out there grabbing level 10's and teaching them on how to build their toons, keeping them interested in the game?</p><p>Who offer's raiding from T5 and up?  NO ONE!  Everyone tries to steal players from other guilds or expects people to "learn and level on their own" then give them their allegiance when they hit 90. This has been the issue for the past 3 years. You can't have a "raiding guild" if there is no one building new raiders.</p><p>When I started LoN on Vox it was for that exact reason. Back then it was just LoN and wildfire that did any type of training for new players and now there is no one that does it. I built a guild from just me to over 600 members in the course of one year. I watched MANY of our 80's (end game lvl cap at the time) go to other "raiding gulids" at the time because I was so focused on saving the population of Vox that I had no plan for those that leveled to max level at that time. We ended up finally building a decent raid team and since then I have moved on. It's time for someone else to build Vox back up. If no one is willing to do it, then hell yeah, Vox is gonna die. May as well sell your toons now if you can.</p><p>This of course is what I see from my experience being on Vox for the past 5 years...take what you will from it, or pay no attention, I don't really care =P</p>

Alumarventrue
08-10-2010, 04:46 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If Vox dies it is because there are no guilds recruiting and helping new players build from 10-90. Everyone thinks they're gonna have a "Raiding Guild" yet who is out there grabbing level 10's and teaching them on how to build their toons, keeping them interested in the game?</p><p>Who offer's raiding from T5 and up?  NO ONE!  Everyone tries to steal players from other guilds or expects people to "learn and level on their own" then give them their allegiance when they hit 90. This has been the issue for the past 3 years. You can't have a "raiding guild" if there is no one building new raiders.</p><p>When I started LoN on Vox it was for that exact reason. Back then it was just LoN and wildfire that did any type of training for new players and now there is no one that does it. I built a guild from just me to over 600 members in the course of one year. I watched MANY of our 80's (end game lvl cap at the time) go to other "raiding gulids" at the time because I was so focused on saving the population of Vox that I had no plan for those that leveled to max level at that time. We ended up finally building a decent raid team and since then I have moved on. It's time for someone else to build Vox back up. If no one is willing to do it, then hell yeah, Vox is gonna die. May as well sell your toons now if you can.</p><p>This of course is what I see from my experience being on Vox for the past 5 years...take what you will from it, or pay no attention, I don't really care =P</p></blockquote><p>Correction - My guild on the Q side has been helping new players for a few months now. I have roughly 20 individual players that I work with on schedules teaching them the game, ensuring groups are hitting the efficent area's and quest in the game. Our guild is very open to new players and most of the individuals spend a lot of time helping eachother. We have began raiding 50-70 mobs, such as Godking, 4x dragons and other 4x 50-70 mobs. While obviously some gear in the game is supperior, including doing the shard runs 50-70 (some of the 47 and 57 gear is sick for the level) ...our guild is building ground up. Its level 42 now and lead by 7 RL friends that have various schedules US Time zone. (Central).</p><p>Guild named, "What the Flagnog"</p><p>Additionally, the guild picks up 75% of the mender cost, has banks 1 and 2 fully open for player exchange of collectibles and gear, free 40 slot bags and 3 rare limit from bank 3 every 24 hours to incent tradeskilling.</p><p>The 7 that run the guild play nearly daily and are all near level 90, 170+ AA with either full PVP, some raid gear, and or/T3 Shard/Ward ...allowing us to tackle mostly all sub 85 2x content.</p><p>If you are new on vox or in a guild that is not doing it for you, look us up.</p>

Krugus
08-16-2010, 06:30 PM
<p>Fan Fair is over, any word on what is going to happen to poor Vox yet?</p>

Sapphy
08-16-2010, 08:01 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Fan Fair is over, any word on what is going to happen to poor Vox yet?</p></blockquote><p>Actually ripchord posted something in flames about a convo kyiara and rothgar had at fanfair concerning vox which can be found here -> <a href="http://www.eq2flames.com/vox/67657-kyiara-fanfair-vox-losing-lg.html">http://www.eq2flames.com/vox/67657-...-losing-lg.html</a> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  So hopefully we get some official news in the next 1-3 weeks (?) concerning what they intend to do with the server <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />  It was really awesome to hear that they recognize the problem here and are contemplating solutions, and I suppose is why ppl have been kinda quiet on the topic lately.  Im anxious to see what happens!</p>

Krugus
08-16-2010, 08:41 PM
<p>Thanks for the link Sapphyra!</p><p>Good news for sure.... now the wait begins.... </p>

ecushe
08-18-2010, 04:35 AM
<p>any info yet ?</p><p>i think what soe should do is allow free transfers off to bazar and nagafen, give pple a choice in what they want to do.</p><p>i for one have never been able to use exchange-buy,sell items due to country restrictions,i hope soe does come back with something where we wont lose what we have earned items plat and the likes of that </p><p>i have been on vox since the day it was created and the server is dead and soe need to  finish lg and kill the server it is way past trying to fix it anyways hope soe reply soon before to many more accounts dissapear</p>

TheUnsungBand
08-20-2010, 01:15 PM
<p>still waiting for official news, I hope there is a real intent for a solution, open those transfers...</p>

BabyAngel
08-20-2010, 01:20 PM
<p>I would like to goto bazar but I want my guild-hall to go with me.</p><p>I think that will be the deal breaker for me and a lot of people, we will go where the halls go. If they are going to kill Vox the last low pop pvp server they should let us move our halls where we wish, some of us are just not able to cope from nagafen and thats why we are on vox.</p>

Madmonte
08-22-2010, 03:23 AM
<p>This is Ripchord, if you didn't know Sapph.  Anyways...character transfer tokens to EQ2X from Vox?  I ask the all important question...is this the Vox solution, $35 transfers to a server that a few players on vox are interested in, but not everyone?  I for one don't particularly have an interest in playing on an SC driven server, I like my pay experience as it is.  So the all iimportant question is...</p><p>Is this the Vox solution?  Or is more (hopefully???) coming...</p>

Pervis
08-22-2010, 03:52 AM
<p><cite>rockcoastie wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pervis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kukubird wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>More RMT goes on on the regular servers then the exchange.  Just go look at feedback of all the non sanctioned sellers on other sights and how much they sell per day.</p></blockquote><p>This is a worthless argument.</p><p><strong><em><span style="color: #ff0000;">You don't make rules based on what is happening, you make them based on what you want to happen. Reguardless of any rules in place, people will break them, exploit them, and stretch them to their limit. The idea is to have a robust set of rules that can be used to enforce the will of those in charge (in this case, SOE).</span></em></strong></p><p>Imagine of governments decided to just not have laws against certain 'substances'. It is legal in some areas, under some circumstances, but there is far greater volume of sales in areas where it is not legal. While some are all for it happening (topic for another forum), this is not a particularly good argument for it.</p><p>Personally, I am happy to see PvP -> PvE server transfers, minus items not available on PvE servers (I'd rather see all PvP items made available via BGs though). Obviously, PvE -> PvP should be enabled as well.</p><p>LG -> non-LG is a bit of an issue to me though. I would be happy if it were simply not allowed. Ever. Under any circumstance. If there is a reason to enable it, there are three things I would want to see.</p><p>First, a character that has been bought on LG is not eligible for transfer. Second, in order to be eligable for transfer off an LG server, you can not have made any LG transactions for the last 3 months. Lastly, players from all countries need to be allowed to sell on LG (not that I am interested, its a principle thing...).</p></blockquote><p>You're a fool if you are to naive to believe that "LG type stuff" doesn't happen on EVERY SERVER.  Do you not know how easy its is to PL a character to 90 with at least 150-200+ aa put some legendary crap on it and sell the account?  Hey guess what it happens.  You can make your precious "rules" all day long and the will be just as "worthless" as your naive argument.  People break rules and laws all the time.  Toons get bought and sold constantly on every server.  So wait then by your rules those people should not be allowed on your server either.  You should really think through an arbitrary argument before you spout off things that are not so easily policed or remedied on your own server.  And btw those "sustances" are illegal by Federal standards no matter what: it is only states that allow it.  Nope your Glaucoma card wont keep the DEA from taking your "Medicinal substance".</p></blockquote><p>You should at least read a post before you quote it.</p><p>Yes, people buy and sell items on regular servers. No, that is not a good reason to allow transferring LG > non-LG servers. It is, however, a good reason for SOE to attempt to catch and punish those that do trade on regular servers.</p><p>All it takes is a CSR or two going over sites that are selling characters and figuring out which characters they are (easy to do, as most sites list adventure, crafter amd AA level, as well as masters and equipment, and in many cases, alts as well). As soon as a character has been positively identified as being doe sale, ban the account.</p><p>A few weeks or months of doing this, and those sites will be unable to operate. They need to be able to tell players what they are buying, but in order to give players enough info, they are also giving enough info for SOE to be able to identify those characters. Since afaik most of these sites are purchasing characters off players before reselling them, any such character deleted from the server is a direct blow to their bottom line.</p>

Vortexelemental
08-22-2010, 04:17 AM
<p><cite>Pervis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>rockcoastie wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pervis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kukubird wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>More RMT goes on on the regular servers then the exchange.  Just go look at feedback of all the non sanctioned sellers on other sights and how much they sell per day.</p></blockquote><p>This is a worthless argument.</p><p><strong><em><span style="color: #ff0000;">You don't make rules based on what is happening, you make them based on what you want to happen. Reguardless of any rules in place, people will break them, exploit them, and stretch them to their limit. The idea is to have a robust set of rules that can be used to enforce the will of those in charge (in this case, SOE).</span></em></strong></p><p>Imagine of governments decided to just not have laws against certain 'substances'. It is legal in some areas, under some circumstances, but there is far greater volume of sales in areas where it is not legal. While some are all for it happening (topic for another forum), this is not a particularly good argument for it.</p><p>Personally, I am happy to see PvP -> PvE server transfers, minus items not available on PvE servers (I'd rather see all PvP items made available via BGs though). Obviously, PvE -> PvP should be enabled as well.</p><p>LG -> non-LG is a bit of an issue to me though. I would be happy if it were simply not allowed. Ever. Under any circumstance. If there is a reason to enable it, there are three things I would want to see.</p><p>First, a character that has been bought on LG is not eligible for transfer. Second, in order to be eligable for transfer off an LG server, you can not have made any LG transactions for the last 3 months. Lastly, players from all countries need to be allowed to sell on LG (not that I am interested, its a principle thing...).</p></blockquote><p>You're a fool if you are to naive to believe that "LG type stuff" doesn't happen on EVERY SERVER.  Do you not know how easy its is to PL a character to 90 with at least 150-200+ aa put some legendary crap on it and sell the account?  Hey guess what it happens.  You can make your precious "rules" all day long and the will be just as "worthless" as your naive argument.  People break rules and laws all the time.  Toons get bought and sold constantly on every server.  So wait then by your rules those people should not be allowed on your server either.  You should really think through an arbitrary argument before you spout off things that are not so easily policed or remedied on your own server.  And btw those "sustances" are illegal by Federal standards no matter what: it is only states that allow it.  Nope your Glaucoma card wont keep the DEA from taking your "Medicinal substance".</p></blockquote><p>You should at least read a post before you quote it.</p><p>Yes, people buy and sell items on regular servers. No, that is not a good reason to allow transferring LG > non-LG servers. It is, however, a good reason for SOE to attempt to catch and punish those that do trade on regular servers.</p><p>All it takes is a CSR or two going over sites that are selling characters and figuring out which characters they are (easy to do, as most sites list adventure, crafter amd AA level, as well as masters and equipment, and in many cases, alts as well). As soon as a character has been positively identified as being doe sale, ban the account.</p><p>A few weeks or months of doing this, and those sites will be unable to operate. They need to be able to tell players what they are buying, but in order to give players enough info, they are also giving enough info for SOE to be able to identify those characters. Since afaik most of these sites are purchasing characters off players before reselling them, any such character deleted from the server is a direct blow to their bottom line.</p></blockquote><p>So you're basically saying, "Yes I know our servers do the exact same type of transactions as yours, and ours are illegal. While yours are legally sanctioned. Though I don't like either so I don't care what happens to your servers. You can't join us because you do the same things we do. Sony could do a better job at cleaning up our servers too though."</p><p>Would you like to me feed you the trollbait or sit this one out?</p>

Madmonte
08-22-2010, 04:33 AM
<p>I agree that a player moving from LG to Non-LG having a 3 month period of not participating in LG would be a viable, workable solution, particularly when it comes to a player that had been bought.</p><p>however for those on non-LG servers, I would like to clear up a misconception that actual workable GEAR can be bought on an LG server.  It simply can't...for those that think it can, you are wrong.  Plat for masters?  Plat for easier purchase of red adorns?  Certainly.  Buying toons that DO have raid gear?  Sure, but if you think Vox toons have a crapload of raid gear, you are wrong...our population is too far back for that.  There may only be 5 T3 armor pieces between ALL the Vox toons on the entire server.</p><p>PVP gear, though, CAN essentially be bought, and that is an actual discussable issue. The rest, to me, is simply a distraction from what actually would be a CORRECT solution for all servers involved.  And to me, that is allowing the transfers...hell, honestly, in three months time, LG players going to non-LG would be so integrated into the system that it would become a non-issue and people would forget all about it.</p><p>There is no REAL advantages from going LG to non-LG if the devs were to handle it correctly and fairly.  And perhaps a time-restriction from having bought for a toon, or flat bought a toon on LG to allowing the transfer is just such a solution.</p><p>Also, gents, no offence intended, but when "quoting" someone, could you edit your messages to just quote the newest part of the conversation?  It tends to make the entire thread less readable.</p>

ecushe
08-23-2010, 11:44 PM
<p>still no news?</p><p>hopefully this does not drag on like many other things have and fall to the wayside or</p><p>end up like how live gamer opening to outside Amercia did  that took over 7 months with no reply and eventually being told abruptly to shut up by grimwell</p><p> can we please get some updates ,info,timeframe or where soe stands in the talks as this isnt looking promising being left in the dark</p>

Xarloec
08-24-2010, 02:26 AM
<p>Any news?  I am on Vox  again, its been so long....</p><p>Any guilds looking for an adult gamer on Vox?</p>

Madmonte
08-24-2010, 11:26 AM
<p>Hm, yeah I have a touch of an update from a guildmate that was at fanfaire, if that helps...it's a two week old update, but I'll copy paste what Rathgar had told her.</p><p>_________________________________________</p><p>Here is what I was told.... "They are very aware of the problem and are talking about it. The population is WAY below the server mininum that we want to see, so we know that something has to be done." He also indicated that they are looking at all the possibilities and want to do what they can to help us with the least negative impact. He mentioned decisions being made regarding whether we remain "livegamer" (not sure what that meant and he was in the door of the restroom at that point!) But he also said it is an active discussion and that he hoped within two - three weeks to be able to post something in the forums regarding what they might be going to do. I told him that we have an active raiding guild that wants to remain intact with the toons we've worked hard to build if at all possible and he said "exactly, and we want to do what we can to try and make that happen". So guys, not a concrete answer, but he did seem very sincere and serious about my concern.</p><p>_____________________________________________-</p><p>As you all know, two to three weeks was probably a fairly ambitious timeframe from him at that point...what with fanfaire going on and a live update with a brand new UI going live...so I'd still give it a couple weeks and see what happens.</p>

kukubird
08-24-2010, 11:31 AM
<p>Good God, SOE.  Act now or you will not have to act. </p><p>With all the new changes there are less and less people logging in and it is making others not want to login.</p><p>Put a temp fix in for warfields, I heard someone with a  great Idea that would take very little time to code.    Don't make it 5 tokens win or loose.  Make it so every guard your side kills/keeps alive is how many tokens your side gets.  It helps balance the server as the side with less people can hit targets run.  It would make people actually participate.  Anyways, do something fast.</p><p>Is your solution to make everyone quit and then you will not need to do anything anyways?  Please you guys always wait too long.  Whatever ideas you said you were thinking of, DO ONE!  It can't be worse then what is happening now.  People play for the massive part.  And one side with 23 alts standing around and the other with 5 does not make the game fun. </p><p>Heck make a extended server with pvp and merge us to there, let us move to bazaar or Naggy.... BUT DO SOMETHING.</p><p>Why do you insist on waiting till it is too late?  You said after you see how people react to extended, well I am sure you have your data... now please do something like yesterday, wait no like last year.  This is insane.</p>

ecushe
08-24-2010, 02:41 PM
<p>i am hoping that costly token to copy your toon to extended was not soes idea of a fix</p><p>as rothgar stated they have allready been talking about it for some time now but that still doesnt fix the issue at hand right now</p><p>we need to know that this is going to be dealt with and sooner rather then later,right away would be better</p><p>hope it gets fixed soon but my toon i have played since the start of vox  wont be getting played till it is fixed</p><p>all i will do is check sales and thats it but pointless if we are punished in a merge</p>

Shadowkatt
08-24-2010, 05:25 PM
<p>Vox = Sinking Ship</p><p>Players = passengers</p><p>SoE = Passing ship debaiting if they should stop to help.  Forms a committee and listens to feed back and after weeks of debate they finally decide to act only to find the ship gone, because it sank to the bottom of the ocean and all of the passengers of said ship have drowned. </p><p>Please let us transfer off the sinking ship, I'm not the captain so I dont' want to go down with the ship!  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Zacarus
08-24-2010, 06:35 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I agree with myself.</p><p>They should merge Vox with Nagafen and put everyone as a Freep. That way it can fix both servers PvP problems and I wont cry at night....</p></blockquote><p>Do you really think SoE is going to let people who *may* have bought stuff (toons / currency / loot, etc) merge those accounts with regular servers?  SoE considers buying that stuff, "cheating," on the regular server.  How do you propose to reconcile that?On a related note, I have a thought about Vox.  Its looking more appealing to me these days.  Here's why... Like others, I've spent countless hours rev'ing up toons on Nagafen... crafters, adventurers, and a muter.  My account dates to Nov 2004 ... its *really* hard for me to get motivated to go quest.  Craft?  Ugh.  Grind aa's?  Oye.These days I spend a healthy chunk of my eq2 time in bgs.  I still like bgs, and I hoping someday they will be better (more variety, 1 v 1 deathmatch, etc.).  Why shouldn't I just buy a toon on Vox, trading my cash in exchange for someone else's grind-age?  I'll end up facing a lot of the same players I face now, on Nagafen, in bg's.  And I can enjoy the toon, having not been bothered by leveling.So for me:  1.) I think wishing Vox would be merged is a pipedream, and 2.) I hope Vox stays as is, because I'm probably going to give it some business in the near future.</p>

Madmonte
08-24-2010, 07:13 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do you really think SoE is going to let people who *may* have bought stuff (toons / currency / loot, etc) merge those accounts with regular servers?  SoE considers buying that stuff, "cheating," on the regular server.  How do you propose to reconcile that?On a related note, I have a thought about Vox.  Its looking more appealing to me these days.  Here's why... Like others, I've spent countless hours rev'ing up toons on Nagafen... crafters, adventurers, and a muter.  My account dates to Nov 2004 ... its *really* hard for me to get motivated to go quest.  Craft?  Ugh.  Grind aa's?  Oye.These days I spend a healthy chunk of my eq2 time in bgs.  I still like bgs, and I hoping someday they will be better (more variety, 1 v 1 deathmatch, etc.).  Why shouldn't I just buy a toon on Vox, trading my cash in exchange for someone else's grind-age?  I'll end up facing a lot of the same players I face now, on Nagafen, in bg's.  And I can enjoy the toon, having not been bothered by leveling.So for me:  1.) I think wishing Vox would be merged is a pipedream, and 2.) I hope Vox stays as is, because I'm probably going to give it some business in the near future.</p></blockquote><p>I find this slightly disingenuous.  Can you convince half of nagafen to do what you are doing and join Vox?  Even 10 more accounts cannot save this server at this point.</p><p>I've also stated my points about live gamer, and they have already been argued in this thread...read the whole thread, including people's ideas about maybe having a time constriction before being allowed to transfer. Also note the facts that i stated on THIS page of the thread about what LG does and doesn't allow you to purchase. </p><p>You may call it a pipe dream but I for one refuse to buy into it.  There are still enough accounts on Vox worth saving, players paying to enjoy the game, and they definitely deserve some consideration, myself included.  In other words, I'll fight to make it a reality instead of a pipedream, and I've been doing so.</p>

Shadowkatt
08-24-2010, 09:31 PM
<p>I think everyone should refuse to play on Vox till they address the situtaion.  At least log in less for a while.  I know have just because its not fun on Vox any more <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Zacarus
08-24-2010, 10:01 PM
<p><cite>Madmonte wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do you really think SoE is going to let people who *may* have bought stuff (toons / currency / loot, etc) merge those accounts with regular servers?  SoE considers buying that stuff, "cheating," on the regular server.  How do you propose to reconcile that?On a related note, I have a thought about Vox.  Its looking more appealing to me these days.  Here's why... Like others, I've spent countless hours rev'ing up toons on Nagafen... crafters, adventurers, and a muter.  My account dates to Nov 2004 ... its *really* hard for me to get motivated to go quest.  Craft?  Ugh.  Grind aa's?  Oye.These days I spend a healthy chunk of my eq2 time in bgs.  I still like bgs, and I hoping someday they will be better (more variety, 1 v 1 deathmatch, etc.).  Why shouldn't I just buy a toon on Vox, trading my cash in exchange for someone else's grind-age?  I'll end up facing a lot of the same players I face now, on Nagafen, in bg's.  And I can enjoy the toon, having not been bothered by leveling.So for me:  1.) I think wishing Vox would be merged is a pipedream, and 2.) I hope Vox stays as is, because I'm probably going to give it some business in the near future.</p></blockquote><p>I find this slightly disingenuous.  Can you convince half of nagafen to do what you are doing and join Vox?  Even 10 more accounts cannot save this server at this point.</p><p>I've also stated my points about live gamer, and they have already been argued in this thread...read the whole thread, including people's ideas about maybe having a time constriction before being allowed to transfer. Also note the facts that i stated on THIS page of the thread about what LG does and doesn't allow you to purchase. </p><p>You may call it a pipe dream but I for one refuse to buy into it.  There are still enough accounts on Vox worth saving, players paying to enjoy the game, and they definitely deserve some consideration, myself included.  In other words, I'll fight to make it a reality instead of a pipedream, and I've been doing so.</p></blockquote><p><p>I'm not being disingenuous at all ... I am saying, very openly and clearly, I think Exchange servers have their place.  My position may differ from yours, but that's just disagreement, not disingenuousness.</p><p>The purpose of my post is to provide a counterpoint for soe to consider.  I would like Vox to stay as is.</p></p>

ecushe
08-25-2010, 12:00 AM
<p>its sad to see so many who believe everyone on live gamer buys and sells since the live gamer is only open to usa residentsalot of players who cant buy or sell were lead to believe that it was going to be opened to  countrys outside usa and pple even got banned for questioning it when grimwell shut down all talks about it</p><p>so please rethink what your saying before you think everyone has brought there way i for one have never been able to buy  or sell and have made everything i have the exact same way the normal servers have</p><p>so why should i be punished first off by not being able to use exchange second not being able to get off of vox third if a merge does happen by losing what i made the same way pple on non live gamer servers have</p><p>plus as stated before the stuff brought by real cash isnt really much or worth it and happens across all servers to some degree</p><p>hope to hear something soon</p>

monte9
08-25-2010, 08:42 AM
<p>Only started playing about 3 months ago.  My brother and his guild have been playing for 3 or more years.   All on vox, because it was a PvP server.  </p><p>Now most of the guild is leaving the game for another game, nobody wants to take all there hard earned crafters/adventurers and start all over again.</p><p>I made my first guy and have him up to 89 furry/90 sage, got enough tokens for all my 80 PvP gear and working on my 90's pvp gear now.   I don't think I want to start all over again....   Especially with the broken WF system, and BG token system.</p><p>Could we please here something on this soon?  Otherwise you will lose everyone in my brothers guild and me as well.....</p>

Killque
08-27-2010, 01:13 AM
<p>I didn't even know what an exchange server was when I started, let alone that Vox was one of them.  I just started playing where my friends were.</p><p>/sigh</p>

kiku
08-27-2010, 09:52 AM
<p>Just open up LG to all servers. If you think it does not already happen on normal servers then you are rather stupid.</p>

Madmonte
08-28-2010, 10:31 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm not being disingenuous at all ... I am saying, very openly and clearly, I think Exchange servers have their place.  My position may differ from yours, but that's just disagreement, not disingenuousness.</p><p>The purpose of my post is to provide a counterpoint for soe to consider.  I would like Vox to stay as is.</p></blockquote><p>The only part I meant to be called disingenuous was the hint that Vox could be saved by a few people coming in from different servers.  We all need to examine the facts.  If Vox stays at it is, there won't be anything left to save by this time next year.</p>

sdaigneault
08-31-2010, 01:33 AM
<p><cite>Killque wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I didn't even know what an exchange server was when I started, let alone that Vox was one of them.  I just started playing where my friends were.</p><p>/sigh</p></blockquote><p>Me either! I stupidly picked the server that was "green" because I thought meant it was newer, faster, better, etc. all the other crap that "green" vs. "red" connotes...  I didn't find out about LG until a year after I started playing.</p><p>I've tried re-rolling on Naggy - I just can't stomach it. I've spent 2 years building characters that are existing in a morgue, a shell of a world, empty. And honestly, if it weren't for our guild being able to raid still, I'd have thrown in the towel and quit EQ2. </p><p>Srsly, let us off, or say goodbye. I know this is a moment for many on the server that like me are deciding what to do next, and the majority aren't continuing their subs. They're deciding that its not worth it, and moving on. </p><p>I know many not on Vox say, well, c'est la vie, tough luck.  Fine. But SOE needs to understand that MANY will simply quit the game, and if I'd hazard a guess, many more would quit b/c of not being able to transfer than those who'd quit because they didnt' like the fact LG toons got off the server. The impact on those of us on Vox is far far greater than the impact those on other servers who just don't like it.</p><p>Tho TBH at this point, the hemorrhaging has already been going on for a while now, and it's probably too late. How many more will quit before SOE makes a decision about what to do? </p>

ecushe
09-01-2010, 07:59 AM
<p>so where do we stand on this issue?</p><p>most ppple are in limbo on what to do, are we looking at a merger?</p><p>do we still sell items for plat,get gear for our toons to only see what</p><p>we have gotten while waiting for a answer will not be allowed to transfer with us.</p><p>i for one have ceased all sales on vox incase we lose our plat and items</p><p>can we ask how talks are going ,still in talks or in fnal stages?</p><p>i just hope a solution comes soon as every day parses the community on vox deminishes</p><p>just hopefully this happens before the exspansion</p>

upupandaw
09-01-2010, 11:50 AM
<p>Keeping us in the dark is just unproffesional.  If you likened this to a brick and mortar company providing a service to very loyal customers for 5 years plus, I wonder if the same treatment would be given?</p><p>If a customers you had for 5+ years who paid you 15.00 per month -60.00 per month asked what was going on in real life about a real service, would you just ignore them?  I think the problem comes from SOE being a big company and it just being a paycheck to many.</p><p>There is no reason mergers shouldn't have happened a long time ago, but they didn't.  Ok mistakes happen and bad decisions were made, but must bad decisions keep being made?  Telling us what is going on would go a long way in keeping a lot of us around.  Silence just is a slap in the face.  We all know 60.00 a month from a customer isnt much, but it starts to add up.</p><p>Common decency to keep players updated would be nice and I am sure appreciated.</p><p>Edit - Even if it is to say nothing is going to be done for at least a few months is fine.  People like the above poster and myself really have stopped paticipating on vox because of the uncertainty.</p>

upupandaw
09-02-2010, 08:35 AM
<p>So whats the latest news, they said we would have news shortly after fan faire.</p><p>Did we miss the announcement?  Or is no news... uhmmm well...</p>

Sprin
09-02-2010, 03:30 PM
<p><cite>Killque wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I didn't even know what an exchange server was when I started, let alone that Vox was one of them.  I just started playing where my friends were.</p><p>/sigh</p></blockquote><p>Yes, so did I... My buddy said, dude try EQ2, I was like, okay... what server... hes like... VOX thats where I am... cool I said...</p><p>Started toon on VOX September of 2006.... by Mid 2007, I was at level cap on my first toon with max AA... AND the</p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: large;">SERVER WAS ALREADY DEAD..... IN MID 2007!!!!!!!</span></span></strong></p><p>So what did I do?  I abandoned that toon which took me so long to level up, and moved to Naggafen, not having much experience with the game, when plat was hard to come by, especially with no high level toons, and leveling was still hard, and there was no PVP locking...  started over</p><p>Now its easy... people from VOX have it simple... you come over from VOX to naggy and you can be at 90 making 40+ plat a day in a matter of weeks... depending on if you have friends over here to PL you or not... if you do, you can be 90 making 40+ plat a day in a few days...</p><p>Suck it up and move off VOX like 90% of the server already has, in a time when it wasn't so EZ mode to get plat and get started on Naggy...</p>

upupandaw
09-03-2010, 04:47 AM
<p>Think fan faire has been done for a while now, so where are we on this?</p><p>Taking no action or not commenting is not right.  Then again, the track record for communication at SOE is in the toilet.</p>

yohann koldheart
09-03-2010, 07:52 AM
<p><cite>upupandaway wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Think fan faire has been done for a while now, so where are we on this?</p><p>Taking no action or not commenting is not right.  Then again, the track record for communication at SOE is in the toilet.</p></blockquote><p>they gave you a option, buy a copy token for eq2x .  </p>

ecushe
09-03-2010, 08:52 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>upupandaway wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Think fan faire has been done for a while now, so where are we on this?</p><p>Taking no action or not commenting is not right.  Then again, the track record for communication at SOE is in the toilet.</p></blockquote><p>they gave you a option, buy a copy token for eq2x .  </p></blockquote><p>if that is soes fix for vox i would have to say soe has just lost quite a few subscriptions and many more to leave as time progresses</p><p>if it is not the fix soe needs to state what is happening</p><p> but in my view the copy of your toon while your original still stays on vox is no solution</p><p>if soe wants to keep the player base thats on vox they will have to speak up soon</p><p>well sooner then later cause they wont have many subscriptions left on that server</p><p>but as everyone knows we more then likely wont hear anything before the exspansion or this will be dragged out as soe hopes pple forget</p><p>i doubt soe has even really talked about this or is taking it that serious especially since no new info has come to light  and soe sated they had been talking about this prior to fanfair yet there still supposably talking about it</p><p>some more info on where you stand on this issue will go along ways to atleast give some hope to pple</p>

sdaigneault
09-04-2010, 08:36 AM
<p>actually, I'm sure they have talked about it, and are probably in a rough spot. There are contractual obligations. There is a set of people - subscribing to EQ2 - who would be very upset if they allowed transfers. So they're probably having a hard time figuring out the right solution.</p><p>I agree tho - a transfer to eq2x isn't the solution - I want to PVP. That's why I'm rebuilding on naggy. But my guild isn't really rebuilding there, we're mostly on vox, so that means if I really wanted to rebuild, I'd leave my friends and guild and find another one. All of which I don't want to do - to the point that I may end up just quitting once it gets so bad vox. We'll see, I'm assuming the process to quit is fairly dragged out for most MMO players as they slowly come to grips that its just not worth it anymore. </p>

Sprin
09-04-2010, 06:44 PM
<p><cite>ecushe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i doubt soe has even really talked about this or is taking it that serious especially since no new info has come to light  and soe sated they had been talking about this prior to fanfair yet there still supposably talking about it</p></blockquote><p>You do realize "we are talking about this" is a blow off statement right?... it means, shut up, we heard you, we aren't doing anything, but we are making it sound like we are thinking about it by "talking about it."</p>

yohann koldheart
09-04-2010, 08:13 PM
<p>there is what like 50 people on vox ?</p><p>soe could prob shut it down tonight and it would be forgotten about by this time monday. if there was a place for livegamer there would be players playing there.</p>

Aleste
09-06-2010, 10:14 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Killque wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I didn't even know what an exchange server was when I started, let alone that Vox was one of them.  I just started playing where my friends were.</p><p>/sigh</p></blockquote><p>Yes, so did I... My buddy said, dude try EQ2, I was like, okay... what server... hes like... VOX thats where I am... cool I said...</p><p>Started toon on VOX September of 2006.... by Mid 2007, I was at level cap on my first toon with max AA... AND the</p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: large;">SERVER WAS ALREADY DEAD..... IN MID 2007!!!!!!!</span></span></strong></p><p>So what did I do?  I abandoned that toon which took me so long to level up, and moved to Naggafen, not having much experience with the game, when plat was hard to come by, especially with no high level toons, and leveling was still hard, and there was no PVP locking...  started over</p><p>Now its easy... people from VOX have it simple... you come over from VOX to naggy and you can be at 90 making 40+ plat a day in a matter of weeks... depending on if you have friends over here to PL you or not... if you do, you can be 90 making 40+ plat a day in a few days...</p><p><strong>Suck it up and move off VOX like 90% of the server already has, in a time when it wasn't so EZ mode to get plat and get started on Naggy...</strong></p></blockquote><p>That comment is just ignorant. If people from vox are forced to reroll to naggy or elsewhere most are better off finding a new game to play. People pay for customer service and no other person who pays the same (Vox ppl may pay more since a ton of boxing goes on) Has ever been told to suck it up and reroll. Its bad business. On top of that wen you have played on a server for years and made friends you may not want to reroll. The game is bleeding subs as it is. Who would want to reroll to naggy when everyone says there is no pvp there either. It's a catch 22.</p>

mrsma
09-07-2010, 09:34 AM
<p>Just transfer ALL of VOX to Naggy -  Free Of Charge  -  and close VOX down.</p><p>Next. . . . .</p>

yohann koldheart
09-07-2010, 09:47 AM
<p><cite>mrsmall wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just transfer ALL of VOX to Naggy -  Free Of Charge  -  and close VOX down.</p><p>Next. . . . .</p></blockquote><p>from what i understand they cant, soe has a contract with livegamer that keeps them from closing it or merging it to a non live gamer server.</p><p>soe gave vox players a way to get off the server, for 35 SC you can copy ur toon to eq2x server that is the 1st or 2nd heaviest population gamewide. i woulndt expect soe to do any more then that.</p>

Aleste
09-07-2010, 10:32 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mrsmall wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just transfer ALL of VOX to Naggy -  Free Of Charge  -  and close VOX down.</p><p>Next. . . . .</p></blockquote><p>from what i understand they cant, soe has a contract with livegamer that keeps them from closing it or merging it to a non live gamer server.</p><p><strong>soe gave vox players a way to get off the server, for 35 SC you can copy ur toon to eq2x server that is the 1st or 2nd heaviest population gamewide. i woulndt expect soe to do any more then that.</strong></p></blockquote><p>So destroying guilds and losing guild halls is the only way off the server? The community (whats left of it) on vox is pretty tight. That is not a viable option. And no one i know even wants to play on that server. Actualy they should have a disclamer for people joining the Lg servers alot of the people there didnt know what they were signing up for made friends and never left.</p><p>And what if you have 7 toons? or 14 even?</p>

sdaigneault
09-07-2010, 05:36 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mrsmall wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just transfer ALL of VOX to Naggy -  Free Of Charge  -  and close VOX down.</p><p>Next. . . . .</p></blockquote><p>from what i understand they cant, soe has a contract with livegamer that keeps them from closing it or merging it to a non live gamer server.</p><p>soe gave vox players a way to get off the server, for 35 SC you can copy ur toon to eq2x server that is the 1st or 2nd heaviest population gamewide. i woulndt expect soe to do any more then that.</p></blockquote><p>There is no PVP on EQ2X. Doesn't really make this worth considering, at least not more than just ending my subscription.</p>

yohann koldheart
09-08-2010, 08:45 AM
<p><cite>sdaigneault wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mrsmall wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just transfer ALL of VOX to Naggy -  Free Of Charge  -  and close VOX down.</p><p>Next. . . . .</p></blockquote><p>from what i understand they cant, soe has a contract with livegamer that keeps them from closing it or merging it to a non live gamer server.</p><p>soe gave vox players a way to get off the server, for 35 SC you can copy ur toon to eq2x server that is the 1st or 2nd heaviest population gamewide. i woulndt expect soe to do any more then that.</p></blockquote><p>There is no PVP on EQ2X. Doesn't really make this worth considering, at least not more than just ending my subscription.</p></blockquote><p>well from what you vox players are saying the population is so low there is no pvp there either...</p>

sdaigneault
09-08-2010, 09:26 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>sdaigneault wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mrsmall wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just transfer ALL of VOX to Naggy -  Free Of Charge  -  and close VOX down.</p><p>Next. . . . .</p></blockquote><p>from what i understand they cant, soe has a contract with livegamer that keeps them from closing it or merging it to a non live gamer server.</p><p>soe gave vox players a way to get off the server, for 35 SC you can copy ur toon to eq2x server that is the 1st or 2nd heaviest population gamewide. i woulndt expect soe to do any more then that.</p></blockquote><p>There is no PVP on EQ2X. Doesn't really make this worth considering, at least not more than just ending my subscription.</p></blockquote><p>well from what you vox players are saying the population is so low there is no pvp there either...</p></blockquote><p>which is why many are just quitting the game altogether. </p>

mrsma
09-08-2010, 09:53 AM
<p><cite>sdaigneault wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>sdaigneault wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mrsmall wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just transfer ALL of VOX to Naggy -  Free Of Charge  -  and close VOX down.</p><p>Next. . . . .</p></blockquote><p>from what i understand they cant, soe has a contract with livegamer that keeps them from closing it or merging it to a non live gamer server.</p><p>soe gave vox players a way to get off the server, for 35 SC you can copy ur toon to eq2x server that is the 1st or 2nd heaviest population gamewide. i woulndt expect soe to do any more then that.</p></blockquote><p>There is no PVP on EQ2X. Doesn't really make this worth considering, at least not more than just ending my subscription.</p></blockquote><p>well from what you vox players are saying the population is so low there is no pvp there either...</p></blockquote><p>which is why many are just quitting the game altogether. </p></blockquote><p>Well, from the above, if that is the case, that is VERY sad.</p><p>[Removed for Content] at the brain wave meeting that came up with......  Drum roll......  "Lets offer $/£35 transfer fee to a NON-PVP, RMT, FTP server" ??????. By the lack of <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>RED NAMES </strong></span>here it is obvious the could not care, poss., due the population being so low?</p><p>Man up SOE and sort it out.  At the very least post an update HERE if you can / can't do anything.</p><p><strong><span style="font-size: medium;">Again</span></strong> - what was the logic of offering  "" $/£35 transfer fee to a NON-PVP, RMT, FTP Server""  ??????? Give them to Naggy - We will open our arms - and cut off their heads <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" /></p>

Gilamarth
09-08-2010, 12:26 PM
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; background-color: transparent; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; font-family: Arial; color: #ffffff;">Mornin Kuku, long time and hope all is well with ya.</span><span style="color: #ffffff;"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; background-color: transparent; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; font-family: Arial; color: #ffffff;">To the vox is dead situation.  There are a few of us left that are still out pvp’n killin, crafting and having a good ole time.  That said, I do hope that the token to the F2P server wasn’t what SOE finally decided on, or at the least we can hope for clarification on that point.</span><span style="color: #ffffff;"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; background-color: transparent; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; font-family: Arial; color: #ffffff;">The biggest issue with the RMT side of things, is there will always be players on the non-RMT servers that can and will /quit if forced to play with those that bought toons/items/plat.  Keeping in mind of course that a good portion of those same players realize that RMT does happen on their servers, but at least it’s not sanctioned.  As small of a point as that may be for some, it’s where others draw the line to playing or /quiting.</span><span style="color: #ffffff;"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; background-color: transparent; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; font-family: Arial; color: #ffffff;">SOE of course has many options and it won’t be possible to have one or any that all will approve of.  Any stripping of characters leaving RMT will not work for those players that bought toons for exactly what is being stripped.  At the same time, some Non-RMT players will never care if you touched LG ever in the characters history, the fact that the toon engaged in broker commerce where there was sanctioned plat buying, grouped with characters that was bought and gained from that group, etc.</span><span style="color: #ffffff;"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; background-color: transparent; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; font-family: Arial; color: #ffffff;">One thing to keep in mind, is Vox is only 1 server and there will always be a “least populated server”.  If you simply shut down vox, then the next lowest populated server becomes the server “in trouble”.  The fact that any server is below a minimum player base level suggests a game wide problem, not just a server one.  Split the highest population server, and Vox is still the lowest pop one, remove vox, and other servers will still feel underpopulated.</span><span style="color: #ffffff;"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; background-color: transparent; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; font-family: Arial; color: #ffffff;">Every time SOE /bans a “gold buyer” on a non exchange server, they loose that account.  At a certain point, SOE will have to consider the illegal plat buying activity as an indication of what that portion of the player base actually wants (at least the ones that get caught).  If more people are getting /banned for buying gold on their server than people are threatening to /quit over it, then that’s something SOE is sure to consider.</span><span style="color: #ffffff;"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; background-color: transparent; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; font-family: Arial; color: #ffffff;">Lastly, if SOE has not made any final decisions on what they are going to do about the vox problem, there’s not much more than they can do than say what they’ve already said which is it’s being worked on.  A hasty decision could be much more damaging than them spending extra time trying to figure out the best choice possible.  In a situation like this, it could be a while before they can come up with even a good option.</span><span style="color: #ffffff;"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; background-color: transparent; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; font-family: Arial; color: #ffffff;">All we can do is wait, and if you can’t, then there are lot’s of great guilds and players out there willing to help, not to mention all those extra XP pots ya have in yer /claim windows.  While not the best option, it’s at least an option to get off vox.</span><span style="color: #ffffff;"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; background-color: transparent; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; font-family: Arial; color: #ffffff;">-Gil</span><span style="color: #ffffff;"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; background-color: transparent; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; font-family: Arial; color: #ffffff;">PS - For myself, I still miss Shadowhaven.</span></p>

Neskonlith
09-08-2010, 01:38 PM
<p><cite>Gilamarth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: Arial; color: #c0c0c0; font-size: 11pt; vertical-align: baseline; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none;">Every time SOE /bans a “gold buyer” on a non exchange server, they loose that account.  At a certain point, SOE will have to consider the illegal plat buying activity as an indication of what that portion of the player base actually wants (at least the ones that get caught).  If more people are getting /banned for buying gold on their server than people are threatening to /quit over it, then that’s something SOE is sure to consider.</span><span style="color: #ffffff;"></span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Maybe SOE needs to adjust their enforcement policy a little: every account identified as being a "plat buyer" violator on non-RMT servers should get an automatic transfer to the Vox server instead of an outright ban.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">This puts the RMT desiring players into a community that is on equal footing with each other... and one that will happily kill the new transfers in-game over and over to enhance the EQ2 experience!</span></p>

sdaigneault
09-08-2010, 02:01 PM
<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gilamarth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: Arial; color: #c0c0c0; font-size: 11pt; vertical-align: baseline; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none;">Every time SOE /bans a “gold buyer” on a non exchange server, they loose that account.  At a certain point, SOE will have to consider the illegal plat buying activity as an indication of what that portion of the player base actually wants (at least the ones that get caught).  If more people are getting /banned for buying gold on their server than people are threatening to /quit over it, then that’s something SOE is sure to consider.</span><span style="color: #ffffff;"></span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Maybe SOE needs to adjust their enforcement policy a little: every account identified as being a "plat buyer" violator on non-RMT servers should get an automatic transfer to the Vox server instead of an outright ban.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">This puts the RMT desiring players into a community that is on equal footing with each other... and one that will happily kill the new transfers in-game over and over to enhance the EQ2 experience!</span></p></blockquote><p>LOL awesome. Love it. Vox could turn into one of the highest populated servers!</p>

Neskonlith
09-08-2010, 02:41 PM
<p><cite>sdaigneault wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gilamarth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: Arial; color: #c0c0c0; font-size: 11pt; vertical-align: baseline; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none;">Every time SOE /bans a “gold buyer” on a non exchange server, they loose that account.  At a certain point, SOE will have to consider the illegal plat buying activity as an indication of what that portion of the player base actually wants (at least the ones that get caught).  If more people are getting /banned for buying gold on their server than people are threatening to /quit over it, then that’s something SOE is sure to consider.</span><span style="color: #ffffff;"></span></p></blockquote><p> <span style="color: #ff0000;">Maybe SOE needs to adjust their enforcement policy a little: every account identified as being a "plat buyer" violator on non-RMT servers should get an automatic transfer to the Vox server instead of an outright ban.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">This puts the RMT desiring players into a community that is on equal footing with each other... and one that will happily kill the new transfers in-game over and over to enhance the EQ2 experience!</span> </p></blockquote><p>LOL awesome. Love it. Vox could turn into one of the highest populated servers!</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It would certainly be a win-win scenario for almost everyone involved, and the only ones losing out would be the plat sellers as their market gets taken over by SOE!</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

sect0r
09-09-2010, 05:14 AM
<p><cite>sdaigneault wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gilamarth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 11pt; vertical-align: baseline; color: #c0c0c0; font-style: normal; font-family: Arial; background-color: transparent; text-decoration: none;">Every time SOE /bans a “gold buyer” on a non exchange server, they loose that account.  At a certain point, SOE will have to consider the illegal plat buying activity as an indication of what that portion of the player base actually wants (at least the ones that get caught).  If more people are getting /banned for buying gold on their server than people are threatening to /quit over it, then that’s something SOE is sure to consider.</span><span style="color: #ffffff;"></span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Maybe SOE needs to adjust their enforcement policy a little: every account identified as being a "plat buyer" violator on non-RMT servers should get an automatic transfer to the Vox server instead of an outright ban.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">This puts the RMT desiring players into a community that is on equal footing with each other... and one that will happily kill the new transfers in-game over and over to enhance the EQ2 experience!</span></p></blockquote><p>LOL awesome. Love it. Vox could turn into one of the highest populated servers!</p></blockquote><p>Vox = Norrathian Prison...  not a bad idea.... STILL WAITING ON A PUBLIC OFFICIAL COMMENT SOE... MANY SUBS HANG IN THE BALANCE!</p>

Aleste
09-09-2010, 10:55 AM
<p><cite>sect0r wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>sdaigneault wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gilamarth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: Arial; color: #c0c0c0; font-size: 11pt; vertical-align: baseline; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none;">Every time SOE /bans a “gold buyer” on a non exchange server, they loose that account.  At a certain point, SOE will have to consider the illegal plat buying activity as an indication of what that portion of the player base actually wants (at least the ones that get caught).  If more people are getting /banned for buying gold on their server than people are threatening to /quit over it, then that’s something SOE is sure to consider.</span><span style="color: #ffffff;"></span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Maybe SOE needs to adjust their enforcement policy a little: every account identified as being a "plat buyer" violator on non-RMT servers should get an automatic transfer to the Vox server instead of an outright ban.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">This puts the RMT desiring players into a community that is on equal footing with each other... and one that will happily kill the new transfers in-game over and over to enhance the EQ2 experience!</span></p></blockquote><p>LOL awesome. Love it. Vox could turn into one of the highest populated servers!</p></blockquote><p>Vox = Norrathian Prison...  not a bad idea.... STILL WAITING ON A PUBLIC OFFICIAL COMMENT SOE... MANY SUBS HANG IN THE BALANCE!</p></blockquote><p>Well... they don't care and from the looks of it never have. There have been constant complaints of the low population on vox since the release of eof. Nothing has ever been done or even said about the matter besides the "we know there is a problem we will look into it" statements.  I personaly do not know what the issue with a merge would be it's not like vox toons are uber geared how many guilds are feilding a full x4 gearing out toons and selling them on lg? heck how many guilds are feilding a full x4 on raid nights? 2, 3 maybe? bg gear comes easy on any server and thats what most of the residents of vox have. You are very lucky to get a set of t1 let alone t2 on vox and the server economy is so inflated you pay major plat for junk on the broker.</p><p>If you ever want a laugh start a new toon on vox and try to buy some level 20 mc gear you'll be level 70 by the time you can afford it. Try to find a crafter to make you some gear.. it will cost you at least 10p <em>If</em> anyone feels like making you some since theres all of 4 crafters on the server.</p>

Sprin
09-09-2010, 09:12 PM
<p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well... they don't care and from the looks of it never have. There have been constant complaints of the low population on vox since the release of eof. Nothing has ever been done or even said about the matter besides the "we know there is a problem we will look into it" statements.  I personaly do not know what the issue with a merge would be it's not like vox toons are uber geared how many guilds are feilding a full x4 gearing out toons and selling them on lg? heck how many guilds are feilding a full x4 on raid nights? 2, 3 maybe? bg gear comes easy on any server and thats what most of the residents of vox have. You are very lucky to get a set of t1 let alone t2 on vox and the server economy is so inflated you pay major plat for junk on the broker.</p><p>If you ever want a laugh start a new toon on vox and try to buy some level 20 mc gear you'll be level 70 by the time you can afford it. Try to find a crafter to make you some gear.. it will cost you at least 10p <em>If</em> anyone feels like making you some since theres all of 4 crafters on the server.</p></blockquote><p>Right.. so I dont understand you VOX people... why do you stick around?  Make a toon on Naggy and have a lvl 90 toon with 200+ aa in a couple weeks... making 20+ P a day a few weeks after that... seems like a no brainer to me TBH</p>

Madmonte
09-09-2010, 10:16 PM
<p>Just got the latest word from the most reliable source possible, and Sony is working on new hardware that will allow Vox players to finally have a chance to get off Vox.  They are hoping to have it before the Velious expansion.</p>

Mary the Prophetess
09-09-2010, 10:25 PM
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Spring, 2006:</span></strong>    PvP comes to EQ2 (And there was much rejoicing)</p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Spring, 2007:</span></strong>    Darathar, Talendor, and Gorenaire collapse into Venekor. (Reason: lack of population)</p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Fall, 2009:</span></strong>         Venekor collapses into Nagafen (Reason: lack of population)</p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Spring, 2011:</span></strong>     Vox collapses into Nagafen (Reason: lack of population)</p><p>You don't need to be Nostrodamus to predict the future of PvP in EQ2.</p>

Ralpmet
09-09-2010, 11:43 PM
<p><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Spring, 2006:</span></strong>    PvP comes to EQ2 (And there was much rejoicing)</p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Spring, 2007:</span></strong>    Darathar, Talendor, and Gorenaire collapse into Venekor. (Reason: lack of population)</p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Fall, 2009:</span></strong>         Venekor collapses into Nagafen (Reason: lack of population)</p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Spring, 2011:</span></strong>     Vox collapses into Nagafen (Reason: lack of population)</p><p>You don't need to be Nostrodamus to predict the future of PvP in EQ2.</p></blockquote><p>How many PvE servers are on the verge of collapsing too? I'd say the trend is more gamewide than play-style wide.</p>

Mary the Prophetess
09-10-2010, 12:39 AM
<p>As far as I know the only PvE server that is in danger of merging would be the Bazaar.</p><p>The game launched in 2004 with thirteen PvE servers (all of which are still active), two roleplay servers both of which are still active, and four international servers (all which are active).</p><p>The Bazaar, and two additional international servers were added in 2005, (all of which are still active)</p><p>In 2006 there were added three PvP servers, and three international PvP servers, (two of which are still active, [and one of those is almost certainly going to be merged at the end of the Live Gamer contract.])</p><p>To these aged eyes, it is not a gamewide problem, but rather a PvP problem.</p><p>The same thing happened in EQ Live.  Specialty servers (those with different rule sets, be it PvP or Live Gamer), always seem to fare poorly when compared with standard rule set servers.</p><p>Please correct me if I am wrong.</p>

Aleste
09-10-2010, 01:06 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well... they don't care and from the looks of it never have. There have been constant complaints of the low population on vox since the release of eof. Nothing has ever been done or even said about the matter besides the "we know there is a problem we will look into it" statements.  I personaly do not know what the issue with a merge would be it's not like vox toons are uber geared how many guilds are feilding a full x4 gearing out toons and selling them on lg? heck how many guilds are feilding a full x4 on raid nights? 2, 3 maybe? bg gear comes easy on any server and thats what most of the residents of vox have. You are very lucky to get a set of t1 let alone t2 on vox and the server economy is so inflated you pay major plat for junk on the broker.</p><p>If you ever want a laugh start a new toon on vox and try to buy some level 20 mc gear you'll be level 70 by the time you can afford it. Try to find a crafter to make you some gear.. it will cost you at least 10p <em>If</em> anyone feels like making you some since theres all of 4 crafters on the server.</p></blockquote><p>Right.. so I dont understand you VOX people... why do you stick around?  Make a toon on Naggy and have a lvl 90 toon with 200+ aa in a couple weeks... making 20+ P a day a few weeks after that... seems like a no brainer to me TBH</p></blockquote><p>It's hard to leave friends behind and not everyone wants to reroll after years of playing on a server. Couple with that the fact that soe does nothing about the server population. A good portion of people on vox log in just to chat they dont want to start over and rightfully they shouldnt have to. Any mmo that forces you to start over with no reguard to the community is full of fail.</p><p>We are loyal what is there to not understand?</p>

sdaigneault
09-10-2010, 01:17 AM
<p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>It's hard to leave friends behind and not everyone wants to reroll after years of playing on a server. Couple with that the fact that soe does nothing about the server population. A good portion of people on vox log in just to chat they dont want to start over and rightfully they shouldnt have to. Any mmo that forces you to start over with no reguard to the community is full of fail.</p><p>We are loyal what is there to not understand?</p></blockquote><p>Exactly. MMO = community = friends. Changing servers is like ditching friends, and it is NOT easy or fun AT ALL.</p>

Sprin
09-10-2010, 01:31 AM
<p><cite>sdaigneault wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>It's hard to leave friends behind and not everyone wants to reroll after years of playing on a server. Couple with that the fact that soe does nothing about the server population. A good portion of people on vox log in just to chat they dont want to start over and rightfully they shouldnt have to. Any mmo that forces you to start over with no reguard to the community is full of fail.</p><p>We are loyal what is there to not understand?</p></blockquote><p>Exactly. MMO = community = friends. Changing servers is like ditching friends, and it is NOT easy or fun AT ALL.</p></blockquote><p>So let me get this right... you dont play on VOX with these "friends" cuz there is nobody to play with cuz the server is dead... so you just chat and not do anything with any toons other then a way to chat... so all make toons on Naggy and chat while you are gorup and leveling up....</p><p>I did it over 2 years ago from VOX... brought over half the guild I was in, all my friends switched.. cuz it was dead over 2 years ago...</p><p>Make some new toons, I'll give you 10P each once ya get here... how about that?  You know its not like it used to be a long time ago, where 5P was a lot... people have 1000's of plat now, and there is a reason, because Plat falls off trees now in this game... so its not as hard to start in a new place as it used to be... especially now that you can get really good gear just by PVP'ng and not spending a whole lot of coin to do so..</p>

sdaigneault
09-10-2010, 08:20 AM
<p>Personally, I have started to build characters on Naggy, and this week I stopped raiding on Vox. But through the whole process I've stopped playing as much, and have thought about quitting more than playing. Maybe this is what I need to go do something else w/ my free time. </p>

Neskonlith
09-10-2010, 01:08 PM
<p><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as I know the only PvE server that is in danger of merging would be the Bazaar.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Actually, I believe Smokejumper has commented more than a few times in various threads recently that SOE is discussing which PVE servers to merge and when - PVE merges will be happening, hopefully SOE can announce a schedule soon to ease anxiety.</span></p><p><span ><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></span></p><blockquote><span ><span style="color: #ffffff; font-size: x-small;"> </span><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>#1-5 will be done. We had some proofs that had to be completed on the Nagafen/AB servers before we could move forward again, but those proofs are completed now, so the ball will start rolling again now.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, please hurry, since Gu57/eq2x unrest is a ghost town.  Finding a pug takes literally hours at primetime, as well, no one is around playing the game outside of raid schedules.</p><p>We need server mergers asap to support the recent population decline / apathy incline.</p></blockquote><p>While I'm sure you're correct that you're having troubles finding a group (and we're discussing mergers to help fix that), the population of Unrest has *not* declined since the launch of EQ2X. So those two things have nothing to do with each other. (The population was light on that server before the launch and wasn't impacted by EQ2X.) We've been watching this stuff like a hawk, and so far, we're not seeing population declines on any of the Live servers.</p><p>But we're not done watching either. It'll be a month or so before we're sure whether we're seeing trends or not. It's still too early to tell for sure.</p></blockquote><p>Playing on AB, I don't know what it's like for the other servers, but when a majority of servers are in the "light" category, shouldn't that be a sign for mergers anyway?</p></blockquote><p>Yes, we agree...and we're discussing how and when now.</p></span></blockquote><p><span style="background-color: #f3f5ff; color: #444444;"><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=485764">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=485764</a></span></p>

Aleste
09-10-2010, 02:24 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>sdaigneault wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>It's hard to leave friends behind and not everyone wants to reroll after years of playing on a server. Couple with that the fact that soe does nothing about the server population. A good portion of people on vox log in just to chat they dont want to start over and rightfully they shouldnt have to. Any mmo that forces you to start over with no reguard to the community is full of fail.</p><p>We are loyal what is there to not understand?</p></blockquote><p>Exactly. MMO = community = friends. Changing servers is like ditching friends, and it is NOT easy or fun AT ALL.</p></blockquote><p><strong><em>So let me get this right... you dont play on VOX with these "friends" cuz there is nobody to play with cuz the server is dead... so you just chat and not do anything with any toons other then a way to chat... so all make toons on Naggy and chat while you are gorup and leveling up....</em></strong></p><p>I did it over 2 years ago from VOX... brought over half the guild I was in, all my friends switched.. cuz it was dead over 2 years ago...</p><p>Make some new toons, I'll give you 10P each once ya get here... how about that?  You know its not like it used to be a long time ago, where 5P was a lot... people have 1000's of plat now, and there is a reason, because Plat falls off trees now in this game... so its not as hard to start in a new place as it used to be... especially now that you can get really good gear just by PVP'ng and not spending a whole lot of coin to do so..</p></blockquote><p>You going to level our guild to 90 also? You going to gear all our toons? Ive noticed from other posts of yours you like to take things to extreams.. When I say the server is dead this is my meaning.</p><p>Pvp, Well it has went to the dogs nothing to really pvp no targets. Ive leveled a toon to 80 with no kills or deaths. (and i wasnt instance grinding). Vox has allways been more of a 1v1 pvp server imo and fights taking 20 mins does not help this case. Between that and all the "pvp" instance gear be it from Wf or Bg = dull.</p><p>Grouping, No need to do it so no one does other than for myth buff updates. A few people box zones in their spare time i wont say any names tho lol.</p><p>Raiding, Its very tough for most raid guilds to feild a full x4 on raid nights. On a side note I give Circle of heros And Storms brew a ton of credit for doing what they do on the Qey side. Considering the number of 90's activly playing on the server and the talent pool for recruitment (or lack there of).</p><p>I dont not understand how people rag on Lg servers when most of us seem to be more attached to our toons and our friends than some on regular servers /shrug.</p><p>(edited by the letter S) /curse the letter S</p>

Ralpmet
09-10-2010, 02:30 PM
<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as I know the only PvE server that is in danger of merging would be the Bazaar.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Actually, I believe Smokejumper has commented more than a few times in various threads recently that SOE is discussing which PVE servers to merge and when - PVE merges will be happening, hopefully SOE can announce a schedule soon to ease anxiety.</span></p><p><span><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></span></p><blockquote><span><span style="color: #ffffff; font-size: x-small;"> </span><p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>#1-5 will be done. We had some proofs that had to be completed on the Nagafen/AB servers before we could move forward again, but those proofs are completed now, so the ball will start rolling again now.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, please hurry, since Gu57/eq2x unrest is a ghost town.  Finding a pug takes literally hours at primetime, as well, no one is around playing the game outside of raid schedules.</p><p>We need server mergers asap to support the recent population decline / apathy incline.</p></blockquote><p>While I'm sure you're correct that you're having troubles finding a group (and we're discussing mergers to help fix that), the population of Unrest has *not* declined since the launch of EQ2X. So those two things have nothing to do with each other. (The population was light on that server before the launch and wasn't impacted by EQ2X.) We've been watching this stuff like a hawk, and so far, we're not seeing population declines on any of the Live servers.</p><p>But we're not done watching either. It'll be a month or so before we're sure whether we're seeing trends or not. It's still too early to tell for sure.</p></blockquote><p>Playing on AB, I don't know what it's like for the other servers, but when a majority of servers are in the "light" category, shouldn't that be a sign for mergers anyway?</p></blockquote><p>Yes, we agree...and we're discussing how and when now.</p></span></blockquote><p><span style="background-color: #f3f5ff; color: #444444;"><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=485764">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=485764</a></span></p></blockquote><p>Yeah if I wasn't lazy my post would've included this quote, but that was what I was talking about Mary.</p>

Sprin
09-11-2010, 01:48 AM
<p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>sdaigneault wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>It's hard to leave friends behind and not everyone wants to reroll after years of playing on a server. Couple with that the fact that soe does nothing about the server population. A good portion of people on vox log in just to chat they dont want to start over and rightfully they shouldnt have to. Any mmo that forces you to start over with no reguard to the community is full of fail.</p><p>We are loyal what is there to not understand?</p></blockquote><p>Exactly. MMO = community = friends. Changing servers is like ditching friends, and it is NOT easy or fun AT ALL.</p></blockquote><p><strong><em>So let me get this right... you dont play on VOX with these "friends" cuz there is nobody to play with cuz the server is dead... so you just chat and not do anything with any toons other then a way to chat... so all make toons on Naggy and chat while you are gorup and leveling up....</em></strong></p><p>I did it over 2 years ago from VOX... brought over half the guild I was in, all my friends switched.. cuz it was dead over 2 years ago...</p><p>Make some new toons, I'll give you 10P each once ya get here... how about that?  You know its not like it used to be a long time ago, where 5P was a lot... people have 1000's of plat now, and there is a reason, because Plat falls off trees now in this game... so its not as hard to start in a new place as it used to be... especially now that you can get really good gear just by PVP'ng and not spending a whole lot of coin to do so..</p></blockquote><p>You going to level our guild to 90 also? You going to gear all our toons? Ive noticed from other posts of yours you like to take things to extreams.. When I say the server is dead this is my meaning.</p><p>Pvp, Well it has went to the dogs nothing to really pvp no targets. Ive leveled a toon to 80 with no kills or deaths. (and i wasnt instance grinding). Vox has allways been more of a 1v1 pvp server imo and fights taking 20 mins does not help this case. Between that and all the "pvp" instance gear be it from Wf or Bg = dull.</p><p>Grouping, No need to do it so no one does other than for myth buff updates. A few people box zones in their spare time i wont say any names tho lol.</p><p>Raiding, Its very tough for most raid guilds to feild a full x4 on raid nights. On a side note I give Circle of heros And Storms brew a ton of credit for doing what they do on the Qey side. Considering the number of 90's activly playing on the server and the talent pool for recruitment (or lack there of).</p><p>I dont not understand how people rag on Lg servers when most of us seem to be more attached to our toons and our friends than some on regular servers /shrug.</p><p>(edited by the letter S) /curse the letter S</p></blockquote><p>Hmm.. go play WoW tbh.. you are on a dead server and too stuborn to make new toons... I was in a high level guild with a max level toon and full gear / aa... i switched back when it was hard to level up a toon and when it was hard to make plat...</p><p>Now you get handed plat on a silver platter and can level a toon to 90 in a week or less... </p><p>And if you think VOX was always a 1 v 1 server, you must be very new.... because there used to be massive PVP fights... raids on raids, groups everywhere...... then, like I said... over 2 years ago, it died... and you must have joined after it died...  and just not know the difference.... tons of people came over to naggy from vox then... you joined after and never knew the difference I guess... so stay there, sit alone in your lvl 90 guild hall and chat with the 3 people that log on per night... no skin off my back....  less gray leechers to worry about TBH..</p>

Aleste
09-13-2010, 07:20 AM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>sdaigneault wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>It's hard to leave friends behind and not everyone wants to reroll after years of playing on a server. Couple with that the fact that soe does nothing about the server population. A good portion of people on vox log in just to chat they dont want to start over and rightfully they shouldnt have to. Any mmo that forces you to start over with no reguard to the community is full of fail.</p><p>We are loyal what is there to not understand?</p></blockquote><p>Exactly. MMO = community = friends. Changing servers is like ditching friends, and it is NOT easy or fun AT ALL.</p></blockquote><p><strong><em>So let me get this right... you dont play on VOX with these "friends" cuz there is nobody to play with cuz the server is dead... so you just chat and not do anything with any toons other then a way to chat... so all make toons on Naggy and chat while you are gorup and leveling up....</em></strong></p><p>I did it over 2 years ago from VOX... brought over half the guild I was in, all my friends switched.. cuz it was dead over 2 years ago...</p><p>Make some new toons, I'll give you 10P each once ya get here... how about that?  You know its not like it used to be a long time ago, where 5P was a lot... people have 1000's of plat now, and there is a reason, because Plat falls off trees now in this game... so its not as hard to start in a new place as it used to be... especially now that you can get really good gear just by PVP'ng and not spending a whole lot of coin to do so..</p></blockquote><p>You going to level our guild to 90 also? You going to gear all our toons? Ive noticed from other posts of yours you like to take things to extreams.. When I say the server is dead this is my meaning.</p><p>Pvp, Well it has went to the dogs nothing to really pvp no targets. Ive leveled a toon to 80 with no kills or deaths. (and i wasnt instance grinding). Vox has allways been more of a 1v1 pvp server imo and fights taking 20 mins does not help this case. Between that and all the "pvp" instance gear be it from Wf or Bg = dull.</p><p>Grouping, No need to do it so no one does other than for myth buff updates. A few people box zones in their spare time i wont say any names tho lol.</p><p>Raiding, Its very tough for most raid guilds to feild a full x4 on raid nights. On a side note I give Circle of heros And Storms brew a ton of credit for doing what they do on the Qey side. Considering the number of 90's activly playing on the server and the talent pool for recruitment (or lack there of).</p><p>I dont not understand how people rag on Lg servers when most of us seem to be more attached to our toons and our friends than some on regular servers /shrug.</p><p>(edited by the letter S) /curse the letter S</p></blockquote><p><strong>Hmm.. go play WoW tbh.. you are on a dead server and too stuborn to make new toons... I was in a high level guild with a max level toon and full gear / aa... i switched back when it was hard to level up a toon and when it was hard to make plat...</strong></p><p>Now you get handed plat on a silver platter and can level a toon to 90 in a week or less... </p><p><strong>And if you think VOX was always a 1 v 1 server, you must be very new.... because there used to be massive PVP fights... raids on raids, groups everywhere......</strong> then, like I said... over 2 years ago, it died... and you must have joined after it died...  and just not know the difference.... tons of people came over to naggy from vox then... you joined after and never knew the difference I guess... so stay there, sit alone in your lvl 90 guild hall and chat with the 3 people that log on per night... no skin off my back....  less gray leechers to worry about TBH..</p></blockquote><p>I have already stated the reason many do not reroll. You can keep your pety insults to yourslef. As for me being "new" Um ever heard of Kindred? Karma? Queens Guard? Naw buddy I have been on the server for quite a long time. The raid on raid and groups everywhere pvp your talking about was a brief stint during the kp days. Vox has allways been more of a 1v1 server with less gank groups running around than naggy.</p><p>Im not sure if your being Nil or just dont comprehend the people of Vox should not be forced to reroll. It's bad business.</p>

ecushe
09-27-2010, 01:01 AM
<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We've been discussing our server transfer policies over the past couple of weeks but don't have anything to announce yet.  We've commented on this subject in the past and are aware of the desires for people to have more open transfer policies between PvP/PvE and LG/Standard servers.  As soon as we have something to tell you, it will be announced.  But for now, understand that your voices are heard.</p></blockquote><p>is this all we get? that you heard us but cant tell us anything more then that</p><p>we would like to know are talks finished with,still ongoing or where soe stands at this present stage</p><p>for me and many this statements means verry little  when its left for months with no word on what is happening</p><p>can we please get a statement on what will be done or where you stand its the least you can do since this issue has been going on for years where soe has stood by idle hearing the concerns yet nothing has come of it</p><p>so please you have had heaps of time to hear our concerns we need to know what will be done and what will be happening asap</p><p>dont sit idle again on this issue vox cant afford that</p>

Chakos
09-27-2010, 02:31 AM
<p><cite>ecushe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We've been discussing our server transfer policies over the past couple of weeks but don't have anything to announce yet.  We've commented on this subject in the past and are aware of the desires for people to have more open transfer policies between PvP/PvE and LG/Standard servers.  As soon as we have something to tell you, it will be announced.  But for now, understand that your voices are heard.</p></blockquote><p>is this all we get? that you heard us but cant tell us anything more then that</p><p>we would like to know are talks finished with,still ongoing or where soe stands at this present stage</p><p>for me and many this statements means verry little  when its left for months with no word on what is happening</p><p>can we please get a statement on what will be done or where you stand its the least you can do since this issue has been going on for years where soe has stood by idle hearing the concerns yet nothing has come of it</p><p>so please you have had heaps of time to hear our concerns we need to know what will be done and what will be happening asap</p><p>dont sit idle again on this issue vox cant afford that</p></blockquote><p>Yes, it is all you get. As much as you may want to know more, he just said he CANNOT tell you more -- like it or not. Further posts saying you want to hear more do absolutely nothing; the contract with LG have been stated as being an issue, I would imagine the same contract is what prevents him from speaking on specifics at this time. If the talks were "finished", as you ask, then I doubt he would have any reason to not say anything else.</p><p>Keep QQing, it will not get you information he cannot give out any quicker. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p>

ecushe
09-27-2010, 11:28 AM
<p>well  look were we are now by sitting back waiting its really done good for the server hasnt it</p><p>yet we still have to wait you call this QQing [Removed for Content] this server has been dead for ages yet its taken soe this long to say they hear us</p><p>but seems your happy to wait for months on end to hear ok we can or cant merge or what will happen to the server</p><p>thats if they bother to inform us </p><p>you keep waiting and lets see how long it takes</p><p>and your on  vox or naggy?</p>

upupandaw
09-28-2010, 03:47 AM
<p>They also probably have a false sense of server health.   I forgot to cancel my accounts so going to be another month.   Nobody to play with ='s no point.</p><p>They think the server is fine enough to have plenty of time to put in fixes.  Maybe it is.  I personally cant take it anymore.</p>

Madmonte
09-30-2010, 05:55 PM
<p>I'm a raid leader in a raid guild, and as I predicted when I started this thread, 2 months have elapsed and yes, people are falling off, and it's harder and harder to find people to recruit.  I'm frustrated, and I'm at the end of my leash with this as well...the guild leader announced he's stepping back, and the other raid leader just quit.  REALLY at the end of my leash here.</p>

Sprin
09-30-2010, 08:20 PM
<p><cite>Madmonte wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a raid leader in a raid guild, and as I predicted when I started this thread, 2 months have elapsed and yes, people are falling off, and it's harder and harder to find people to recruit.  I'm frustrated, and I'm at the end of my leash with this as well...the guild leader announced he's stepping back, and the other raid leader just quit.  REALLY at the end of my leash here.</p></blockquote><p>Then do what 90% of VOX did 3 years ago, go to naggy and start there... so much easier then it was 3 years ago too... just do it</p>

Hau
10-01-2010, 12:18 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Then do what 90% of VOX did 3 years ago, go to naggy and start there... so much easier then it was 3 years ago too... just do it</p></blockquote><p>Is this all you know how to say? Everytime I see a post from you is "stop QQing and move, look at me I did it yipee."</p><p>Sorry but I didn't spent years raiding and running zones, countless hours pvping to gear myself and alts up, even more hours crafting just to be told "Oops sorry, if you want to continue to have fun, well just keep paying us 15bucks a month and start all over!"</p><p>No, I'd rather see something done by SoE, because in reality, this is their problem and therefore they should be the ones who fix it. They've said they're working toward more merges, and to be honest I'd be even more [Removed for Content] off if I did start over and 2 days after I've started raiding again from scratch they allow me to bring my old character over.</p><p>So no, the solution is not for the hundreds of people who've spent hundreds of hours on their characters to "stop QQing" and move to naggy.</p><p>All I can say is I hope sony really is working on fixing the Vox situation, I know it's already been said they have no plans of allowing PvP <--> PvE transfers, and since both issues and a dev response were brought up in the same thread, well it just makes me think that the Vox transfers/merge is looking grim.</p>

Sapphy
10-01-2010, 06:20 PM
<p><cite>Madmonte wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a raid leader in a raid guild, and as I predicted when I started this thread, 2 months have elapsed and yes, people are falling off, and it's harder and harder to find people to recruit.  I'm frustrated, and I'm at the end of my leash with this as well...the guild leader announced he's stepping back, and the other raid leader just quit.  REALLY at the end of my leash here.</p></blockquote><p>Yea Vox is pretty gone now. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  And I'm sure soe is looking into it, but the server seems like it has lost a lot of its magic lately.  With the guild systems, side imbalance, raiding potential, and social interaction in decay its hard to find enjoyment in the things I once did.  And maybe its just time to focus on other things for a bit but I'm going to take a break for a while, I hope all goes well for you in sb madmonte <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  I really appreciate how much energy you have put into helping the players here!</p>

Kota
10-01-2010, 07:14 PM
Ingredients * 3 pints fresh strawberries * 1/2 cup white sugar * 2 1/4 cups all-purpose flour * 4 teaspoons baking powder * 2 tablespoons white sugar * 1/4 teaspoon salt * 1/3 cup shortening * 1 egg * 2/3 cup milk * 2 cups whipped heavy cream Directions 1. Slice the strawberries and toss them with 1/2 cup of white sugar. Set aside. 2. Preheat oven to 425 degrees F (220 degrees C). Grease and flour one 8 inch round cake pan. 3. In a medium bowl combine the flour, baking powder, 2 tablespoons white sugar and the salt. With a pastry blender cut in the shortening until the mixture resembles coarse crumbs. Make a well in the center and add the beaten egg and milk. Stir until just combined. 4. Spread the batter into the prepared pan. Bake at 425 degrees F (220 degrees C) for 15 to 20 minutes or until golden brown. Let cool partially in pan on wire rack. 5. Slice partially cooled cake in half, making two layers. Place half of the strawberries on one layer and top with the other layer. Top with remaining strawberries and cover with the whipped cream.

Sapphy
10-01-2010, 07:24 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> Ingredients * 3 pints fresh strawberries * 1/2 cup white sugar * 2 1/4 cups all-purpose flour * 4 teaspoons baking powder * 2 tablespoons white sugar * 1/4 teaspoon salt * 1/3 cup shortening * 1 egg * 2/3 cup milk * 2 cups whipped heavy cream Directions 1. Slice the strawberries and toss them with 1/2 cup of white sugar. Set aside. 2. Preheat oven to 425 degrees F (220 degrees C). Grease and flour one 8 inch round cake pan. 3. In a medium bowl combine the flour, baking powder, 2 tablespoons white sugar and the salt. With a pastry blender cut in the shortening until the mixture resembles coarse crumbs. Make a well in the center and add the beaten egg and milk. Stir until just combined. 4. Spread the batter into the prepared pan. Bake at 425 degrees F (220 degrees C) for 15 to 20 minutes or until golden brown. Let cool partially in pan on wire rack. 5. Slice partially cooled cake in half, making two layers. Place half of the strawberries on one layer and top with the other layer. Top with remaining strawberries and cover with the whipped cream. </blockquote><p>I'm sure there is probably some obscure meaning to this post I'm not getting... but aside from that the dessert sounds yummy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

TanDao
10-05-2010, 01:36 PM
<p>1)Circle of Hero may deserve a death.  Those ppl  formed COH left Queensguard when quensguard was  having a hard time to repair its  raid force when alfonse  recruit  alot  raiders from various  guilds. COH faces  issues  with  raiders shortage. Have them  thought  what  they had doen to queensguard? Which had  helped them to get equiped and  skilled? Payback time.</p><p>2)I left  vox about  2 years. Buying SOE's PVP  idead  and invest into an  exchanged pvp server is similar to buy morgage secured bonds. The issue is never how to save VOX. Vox is dead  announced by SOE when they transfer rights to outsiders. Do you really think they sold it  forprofit? No! They sold it so it will never  have  anything to do  with it in the  future, leagally. Politics,  business strategies... open your  eys  wide. SOE cant transfer or do anything on vox  since its not its  property anymore.</p><p>3)Personally I prefer SOE to offer  a negafan copy service on market place to copy  toons from vox to negafan as  did on test server or BGs internally.  you dotn transfer  any toon in and out of  vox. You just offer  toons on vox  a vitual twin on negafan to  lives on... Naked. no masters..  just appearance,skill  lvl copied. Thus  can save ppl to redo  all tradeskill etc.</p><p>Lastly, any one on vox  should start  rolling alt  and level up on any serverto start a new  life.  dont hesitate. they earlier you do, the less pain you will suffer.</p>

Madmonte
10-05-2010, 02:15 PM
<p>I was in Queen's Guard...I played a level 70 warlock that was there every raid, in the mage group with manch, wreakinn, quinten and rymeryl every night.  Was one of the last players to abandon ship.  I will say, you mention alfonse, well about the same time those same guys left CoH, alfonse (who still plays on Vox and is a heck of a nice guy) actually made the movement to found the original mayhem (before it became a sibslynx run guild).  CoH wasn't the only factor there...anyways, I stayed in Queen's Guard longer than most players, leaving even after daal did, when the guild was already basically defunct.  But I was busy levelling up a troubador to play at 80 at the time anyways.</p><p>Realistically, at the time CoH was founded by a bunch of guys who, possibly due to officer politics, partially to the fact that they had less raiding experience than the "status quo" weren't always getting raid invites to the QG raids, where the original Mayhem had the goal of only recruiting the best players on the server, as alfonse's dream was to form a guild that could take down an xpac. </p><p>Both now entirely evolved, and are close to equal on progression in this xpac, which due to population issues which make recruiting difficult for those two guilds, as well as my guild, are among the top guilds on Vox this xpac.  What's depressing is, where even casual guilds on other servers can take down hard modes like nothing, the top three Vox guilds struggle with this.</p><p>It would be easy to say they should form alliances, but the philosophical differences alone between the 3 top guilds, including loot rules and policies, definitely stand in the way of that, and population issues made all three guilds struggle not to become fighter heavy...</p><p>I do sense guild mergers might be coming once you don't lose masters on betraying...but as guilds potentially merge and absorb on Vox, I start to get the sense that by two months of Vellious' release, there will only be maybe 2 or 3 raid guilds on Vox entirely...</p>

Sprin
10-05-2010, 06:53 PM
<p><cite>Haute wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Then do what 90% of VOX did 3 years ago, go to naggy and start there... so much easier then it was 3 years ago too... just do it</p></blockquote><p>Is this all you know how to say? Everytime I see a post from you is "stop QQing and move, look at me I did it yipee."</p><p>Sorry but I didn't spent years raiding and running zones, countless hours pvping to gear myself and alts up, even more hours crafting just to be told "Oops sorry, if you want to continue to have fun, well just keep paying us 15bucks a month and start all over!"</p><p>No, I'd rather see something done by SoE, because in reality, this is their problem and therefore they should be the ones who fix it. They've said they're working toward more merges, and to be honest I'd be even more [Removed for Content] off if I did start over and 2 days after I've started raiding again from scratch they allow me to bring my old character over.</p><p>So no, the solution is not for the hundreds of people who've spent hundreds of hours on their characters to "stop QQing" and move to naggy.</p><p>All I can say is I hope sony really is working on fixing the Vox situation, I know it's already been said they have no plans of allowing PvP <--> PvE transfers, and since both issues and a dev response were brought up in the same thread, well it just makes me think that the Vox transfers/merge is looking grim.</p></blockquote><p>Right because the man hours, contract negotiations, the hardware, software upgrades, the hastle of transfering toons and different names, the complaints they would get.. etc etc etc etc... its all worth the 12 peoples accounts that are left on VOX that refuse to leave....  </p><p>If you had created a toon on Naggy at the start of this "QQ"ing thread, you'd be 90 with 100's of plat by now, and a couple masters from the RA in your pocket, some decent gear and a few alts with full PVP gear at lower tiers, fully mastered with cap AA.....   some people just like to whine... and there is nothing anyone can do to stop you...</p>

Aleste
10-11-2010, 06:33 PM
<p><cite>TanDao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1)Circle of Hero may deserve a death.  Those ppl  formed COH left Queensguard when quensguard was  having a hard time to repair its  raid force when alfonse  recruit  alot  raiders from various  guilds. <strong><em>COH faces  issues  with  raiders shortage</em></strong>. <strong><em>Have them  thought  what  they had doen to queensguard? Which had  helped them to get equiped and  skilled? Payback time.</em></strong></p><p>2)I left  vox about  2 years. Buying SOE's PVP  idead  and invest into an  exchanged pvp server is similar to buy morgage secured bonds. The issue is never how to save VOX. Vox is dead  announced by SOE when they transfer rights to outsiders. Do you really think they sold it  forprofit? No! They sold it so it will never  have  anything to do  with it in the  future, leagally. Politics,  business strategies... open your  eys  wide. SOE cant transfer or do anything on vox  since its not its  property anymore.</p><p>3)Personally I prefer SOE to offer  a negafan copy service on market place to copy  toons from vox to negafan as  did on test server or BGs internally.  you dotn transfer  any toon in and out of  vox. You just offer  toons on vox  a vitual twin on negafan to  lives on... Naked. no masters..  just appearance,skill  lvl copied. Thus  can save ppl to redo  all tradeskill etc.</p><p>Lastly, any one on vox  should start  rolling alt  and level up on any serverto start a new  life.  dont hesitate. they earlier you do, the less pain you will suffer.</p></blockquote><p>1. I joined Coh and brought 6 or 7 people with me.. the rest of that idk. But people leave guilds and change raid forces all the time. Mayhem anyone?</p><p>2. Where can you show any proof that server rights were transfered to other people? Soe subleases microtransactions to Live gammer. LG does not own the servers. Its like pepsi paying a bottle company to make its bottles doing so allows a company to pool more resources to do other things with.</p><p>3. I would prefer a merge or transfers off why copy a toon if you would never play the one on a dead server? just doesnt make any sense from a resource standpoint. And why for the love of god does everyone want the attached stigma of master/gear loss? Plat is so easy to make atm its silly, Masters can be obtained by researcher and gear.. well gear makes me lulz. Anyone who wants raid gear can have it easy (t1) and pvp gear is a gimmie.</p><p>To all the people who seem to think everyone on Vox brought their way to mediocrity; shove off. Most of us earned it. Personaly im kind of sick of purists. With the introduction of Station Cash we all became RTM servers. Buying potions to level or mounts is the same as buying a character who is already leveled and has a mount get it?</p>

Aleste
10-11-2010, 06:46 PM
<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Haute wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Then do what 90% of VOX did 3 years ago, go to naggy and start there... so much easier then it was 3 years ago too... just do it</p></blockquote><p>Is this all you know how to say? Everytime I see a post from you is "stop QQing and move, look at me I did it yipee."</p><p>Sorry but I didn't spent years raiding and running zones, countless hours pvping to gear myself and alts up, even more hours crafting just to be told "Oops sorry, if you want to continue to have fun, well just keep paying us 15bucks a month and start all over!"</p><p>No, I'd rather see something done by SoE, because in reality, this is their problem and therefore they should be the ones who fix it. They've said they're working toward more merges, and to be honest I'd be even more [Removed for Content] off if I did start over and 2 days after I've started raiding again from scratch they allow me to bring my old character over.</p><p>So no, the solution is not for the hundreds of people who've spent hundreds of hours on their characters to "stop QQing" and move to naggy.</p><p>All I can say is I hope sony really is working on fixing the Vox situation, I know it's already been said they have no plans of allowing PvP <--> PvE transfers, and since both issues and a dev response were brought up in the same thread, well it just makes me think that the Vox transfers/merge is looking grim.</p></blockquote><p><strong><em>Right because the man hours, contract negotiations, the hardware, software upgrades, the hastle of transfering toons and different names, the complaints they would get.. etc etc etc etc... its all worth the 12 peoples accounts that are left on VOX that refuse to leave....</em></strong>  </p><p><em><strong>If you had created a toon on Naggy at the start of this "QQ"ing thread, you'd be 90 with 100's of plat by now, and a couple masters from the RA in your pocket, some decent gear and a few alts with full PVP gear at lower tiers, fully mastered with cap AA.....   some people just like to whine... and there is nothing anyone can do to stop you...</strong></em></p></blockquote><p>My Loyality lays with my friends (more than 12 btw). And since im a paying customer i expect to be treated with the same respect as all other paying customers. When a problem is brought up by <em>my server community</em> I would hope it is being addressed. Since you currently dont play on this server you could just remain silent about it since it does not effect you <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />. But no im sure you wont because your e-peni is 10000000000ft long.</p><p>No matter how much you taunt us it doesnt matter really. Trying to save our server and the amount of time and effort we spent to achieve what we have there is not QQ. But then again to realize its much more than rerolling maybe beyond you.</p><p>Hey Ghettoblaster run a little test for me ok? Ask your current guild (all of them) to Delete all of their toons and reroll with you on Ab. See how far it gets you. Idk about you but i have an account full of 90's all of which i have worked to attain what they have, So your better off asking me to switch games than to reroll.</p>

Madmonte
10-13-2010, 06:44 PM
<p>Well as much as I like the carnage flag thing, honestly there's not enough people on Vox for this WF thing to work...someone could call "freeps by Kunzar's Edge" and it takes 5 minutes to fly there...</p><p>did a WF today in antonica.  Didn't see one FP player, and was only 1 other active interested Qeynosian in zone with me...EL was WAAAY worse from what I heard.</p><p>And KP because of the low density of players in zones and big big distances between the towers...well...one day into the update, and noone is out for WF almost at all during the day.</p><p>Death of Vox imminent?  Even more so now.</p>

Neskonlith
10-13-2010, 06:57 PM
<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">SOE should partner up with Netflix to provide in-flight movies for PVP players travelling from KE to JW towers!</span></p>

upupandaw
10-16-2010, 06:53 AM
<p>Wonder if the developers know how bad the server is since this last pvp update?  Was bad before it,  and now it is dead.  I mean like literally dead.  2-12 players showing up for each wf total and just to hide somwehere?</p><p>I would imagine they dont care or even should at this point.  Just too few left to even be worth making any changes now.  Think some action should have been taken a long long time ago.</p><p>So the new changes are ok for Naggy?  Since they have more players then vox?</p><p>Does anyone know if Livegamer controls the 2 LG servers?  Or does SOE still control them and LG just provides excchange service?</p><p>I ask because everything SOE does pretty much kills livegamer.  Can't sell items directly but can load up toons ( hierloom ). Pain in the but..</p><p>Make plat worthless so everything costs an arm and a leg in game for new people.</p><p>Make anything worth anything so easy to get it isnt worth getting.  ( everyone has it or can get it in a day )</p><p>There just is pretty much no reason to keep playing on vox no matter what you like to do on the server.  If you like pvp, that is gone.  If you like friends to raid with, that is gone.  If you like to make an extra buck on the side that is done.  If you like to craft, nobody to sell to that is also done.   There is like one reason left to login and that is to bg.</p>

skidmark
10-18-2010, 05:18 PM
<p>Server merges announced, Vox left out in the cold.</p>

Jab
10-18-2010, 05:21 PM
<p>/feels sad for u guys..</p><p>Hope u find happiness on naga or elsewhere evnetually.</p>

upupandaw
10-18-2010, 10:28 PM
<p>I dont blame livegamer for sticking to their guns.  RMT goes on on other servers and soe doesnt do enough to stop it.  If they did it would have boosted LG servers. </p><p>Also they get a new game like free realms and wait to implement livegamer till the rush of a new game is over.   They furtrher make everything so easy and not special that nobody wants anything ( no demand for the product )</p><p>Take that further to the game has got so easy and nobody has a reason to use LG.  SOE has done nothing to help their business partner LG and evrything to hurt it. </p><p>Again, no wonder LG is sticking to the contract.</p>

MMKA
10-19-2010, 01:13 AM
<p>Throw in the toughness mess and healer nerf and there is really no reason for anyone to even attempt pvp unless you are a scout or a mage. I'm sad that I paid months in advance. Once my payment term is up, I'm done too!</p>

Hau
10-20-2010, 02:55 AM
<p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=488996" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=488996</a></p><p>We're probably screwed to say the least. If you're interested check it out, reply, do what you gotta do.</p><p>Hopefully we'll get some kind of attention with this.</p>

Chakos
10-20-2010, 07:48 AM
<p><cite>Haute wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=488996" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=488996</a></p><p>We're probably screwed to say the least. If you're interested check it out, reply, do what you gotta do.</p><p>Hopefully we'll get some kind of attention with this.</p></blockquote><p>If you haven't by now, it isn't likely you will there, either.</p><p>It's unfortunate, but not unforseen.</p>

Kyiara
11-10-2011, 05:32 PM
<p>Imminent death....I THINK NOT! PATIENCE PAYS OFF! Lifeblood incoming!</p>

Ilovecows
11-11-2011, 03:22 AM
<p>Necroed!  but yes, it will be nice for those still stuck on Vox or with toons stuck on vox will finally be able to move to a server with poppulation!</p>

Jacquotte
11-11-2011, 08:30 AM
<p>merging with nagafen wont really help you, that server is dead too..</p>

Ahlana
11-11-2011, 08:40 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>merging with nagafen wont really help you, that server is dead too..</p></blockquote> It will help them greatly.. as then they can pay to transfer to any server they want lol

Jacquotte
11-11-2011, 08:42 AM
<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>merging with nagafen wont really help you, that server is dead too..</p></blockquote>It will help them greatly.. as then they can pay to transfer to any server they want lol</blockquote><p>ah, theres a something i didnt consider <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>just didnt think a person from a pvp server would ever want to play pve, but i suppose if there is noone to kill anyway.....</p>

Ahlana
11-11-2011, 08:55 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>merging with nagafen wont really help you, that server is dead too..</p></blockquote>It will help them greatly.. as then they can pay to transfer to any server they want lol</blockquote><p>ah, theres a something i didnt consider <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>just didnt think a person from a pvp server would ever want to play pve, but i suppose if there is noone to kill anyway.....</p></blockquote> Yeah naggy is pretty much PVE for all intents and purposes... with agreed upon dueling areas every two hours (read warfields)